Where are these two shields from?

[TCole]

I find so many of the literature is vague when it comes to the provenance or place of origin/manufacture of some of these Indian shields.

I have recently developed an interest in these things and I would be interested to hear what the community out there thinks of these.

Thanks in advance,
Tom

[Jens Nordlunde]

According to the Moser catalogue 1955 the shield to the right could, maybe, be Afghan. In the catalogue is shown a shield, not quite like yours, but still - it could be Afghan.

[TCole]

Jens Nordlunde - Your opinion that it might be Afghan based upon the Moser catalogue is based on … photographs of Afghan shields? or some of the text offered in that catalogue? If text.. can you quote it? And if based on photos, any chance to scan them and put it here in this thread?? Thanks.

Tom

[iskender]

good evening, the right shield is similar with one in my collection i think it is from north /india, now pakistan.. possibly from a muslim warrior. Iskender

[TCole]

good evening, the right shield is similar with one in my collection i think it is from north /india, now pakistan.. possibly from a muslim warrior. Iskender


North Pakistan? Pashtun from the border area? Or…?

[TCole]

good evening, the right shield is similar with one in my collection i think it is from north /india, now pakistan.. possibly from a muslim warrior. Iskender

And this one is metal, I was told.. not hide as it appears to be with the black lacquer

[iskender]

good evening ,the shield of mine is similar in the decoration as yours , from hammerd iron 250/300 years old or earlyer. the interesting detail is that the rim of the outer radius is folded and ironcut in a design and technique equal to the rims of the type indian armor / deccani full bodycuirasse / these plain bodyarmors from wootzsteel , horrible expensive when in a good condition.i dont now more in the moment , i will see what i find in the books. thanks iskender

[Jens Nordlunde]

Tom,
The shield is from: Orientalisches Sammlung Henri Moser-Charlottenfels, 1955 and the authors are Rudolf Zeller and Ernst F. Rohrer.

The shield attached is shown in the Afghan chapter, and the authors are very careful not to mention how old it is. They do, however, give some measurers.
Diameter 38.1 cm
Hight 7 cm
Thickness 1 mm
Weight 1.365 kg
The shield is made of iron with brass decorations.

[colin henshaw]

Tom,
The shield is from: Orientalisches Sammlung Henri Moser-Charlottenfels, 1955 and the authors are Rudolf Zeller and Ernst F. Rohrer.

The shield attached is shown in the Afghan chapter, and the authors are very careful not to mention how old it is. They do, however, give some measurers.
Diameter 38.1 cm
Hight 7 cm
Thickness 1 mm
Weight 1.365 kg
The shield is made of iron with brass decorations.

This dhal I have, looks very similar to the one illustrated in this book...

[iskender]

Tom,
The shield is from: Orientalisches Sammlung Henri Moser-Charlottenfels, 1955 and the authors are Rudolf Zeller and Ernst F. Rohrer.

The shield attached is shown in the Afghan chapter, and the authors are very careful not to mention how old it is. They do, however, give some measurers.
Diameter 38.1 cm
Hight 7 cm
Thickness 1 mm
Weight 1.365 kg
The shield is made of iron with brass decorations.
good day , a similar shield like the H.R.Charlottenburg example in my collection , 35 cm diameter, has these crestcent decorations as this one. In the glossary of g.stone under "dahl " no place of origin is given.In the book "arms and armor from iran" there are two shields cat 373 and cat 376 with halfmoons pointing to a muslimstate in iran. this shield i would put in between the borders of the mugahl empire 1525 or 1605 hindu kush /punjab. as for the age it is hard to say .in the book of e.jaiwant paul there is also a moon declaird as the symbol of the Chandravanshi raiputs. best regards iskender

[Jens Nordlunde]

I dont know enough about shields to tell the age and from where they are.

It could have a Muslim origin, but there is also another possibility. It could origin from one of the lunar born clans, like Bhati, Chandelas, Chudasama, Jadauna, Jadeja, Katoch, Tomares and others.
The Bhati's did at one time rule in Sind, Punjab and even in Afghanistan.
A few pointers for further research.

[TCole]

I dont know enough about shields to tell the age and from where they are.

It could have a Muslim origin, but there is also another possibility. It could origin from one of the lunar born clans, like Bhati, Chandelas, Chudasama, Jadauna, Jadeja, Katoch, Tomares and others.
The Bhati's did at one time rule in Sind, Punjab and even in Afghanistan.
A few pointers for further research.


Surely the presence of the crescent moon is not an exclusive indicator of Muslim origin. The technique, the iconography/design seems to me would be more important to consider. The similarity of the shield from 1955 book and Colin's shield is striking. But none of these others have paint/lacquer like this, do they?

[TCole]

I dont know enough about shields to tell the age and from where they are.

It could have a Muslim origin, but there is also another possibility. It could origin from one of the lunar born clans, like Bhati, Chandelas, Chudasama, Jadauna, Jadeja, Katoch, Tomares and others.
The Bhati's did at one time rule in Sind, Punjab and even in Afghanistan.
A few pointers for further research.


Thank you very much. Guessing the other one to the left has no place of origin? :) I am guessing the generic attribution of Benares might be used on this one? :)

This "Benares" attribution appears to be used on material that most agree is "late", ie. circa 1900 - 20? But surely enameled shields were made elsewhere at that time and before as well, given the skill of craftsmanship seen in weapons (daggers/sword hilts)? I'm curious.. just looking at photographs of material and trying to place it in terms of geography rather than a chronology with dates.