Flintlock 4 Cylinder Revolver For Comment

[dana_w]

Flintlock pistols with rotating cylinders were supposedly produced as curiosities during the late 18th century. A Russian maker working in England named Ivan Polin made a flintlock revolver that is believed to date from 1801. Elisha Haydon Collier is often credited for inventing a flintlock revolver around 1814 that inspired Samuel Colt.

This 4 cylinder example of a flintlock revolver has no evident makers marks. I invite comments from the forum.

Weight: 4 lb, 5 oz
Approximate Overall Dimensions: 24” x 7” x 2 ¼”
Barrel length not including cylinder: 14”
Cylinder length: 3”

All photos are copyright (c) 2016 Dana K. Williams. All rights are reserved.

[fernando]

Fascinating. Does this belong in your collection, Dana ?

[dana_w]

Fascinating. Does this belong in your collection, Dana ?

Yes Fernando, this pistol is part of the collection my sister and I inherited from our late father, F.E. Williams III (AKA Jack Williams)

[kahnjar1]

Hi Dana,
Very interesting pistol. I do not often post in this section of the Forum, but have a healthy interest in old firearms of all types.
From the pics, it is not evident how the cylinder rotates. I assume it is hand rotated around a fixed mounting which holds the barrel?
Is the cylinder "locked" in any way to avoid accidental rotation?
What safety measures are in place to stop cross ignition between the cylinder tubes?
How does one demount the cylinder for cleaning?
It would be interesting to see some "exploded" pics of the pistol if possible.
Stu

[dana_w]

I assume it is hand rotated around a fixed mounting which holds the barrel?
Is the cylinder "locked" in any way to avoid accidental rotation?
What safety measures are in place to stop cross ignition between the cylinder tubes?
How does one demount the cylinder for cleaning?
It would be interesting to see some "exploded" pics of the pistol if possible.
Stu

As you assumed Stu (AKA kahnjar1), there is a button on the bottom which unlocks the cylinder so that it can be hand turned. There is an index mark on the cylinder that gives the user an idea which chamber is in use and the depressions in the cylinder help easily locate the next locking position. The chambers are loaded and can be cleaned via and opening in the stock in front of the trigger guard. The locking button, indexed depressions in the cylinder, and loading access can be seen well in the second photo.

[kahnjar1]

Hi Dana,
Thanks for the info. Must admit I did not look closely at the groove. I had assumed from the pic that it was for a rammer :o
What about cross ignition? Any safety features to stop this?
Stu

[dana_w]

What about cross ignition? Any safety features to stop this?
Stu

I don't see any creative features to prevent cross ignition (chain firing). It has probably always been a problem with multi shot flintlock weapons.

I've read about the use of grease to help prevent it in early frontier cap and ball revolvers.

[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Dana,

A very interesting old pistol!


I think this pistol is Much older than the Collier, and going by the shape of the lock and cock, plus the butt-stock, I would say late 17th century to very early 18th century.

Such pistols and carbines were produced from about 1680 to 1700.
Sometimes these were snaphaunce locks, which in a revolver was a little easier to make, as each cylinder had its own pan and sliding cover.

There are two of these in W Keith Neal & D Back's book, GBG 1540 -1740.
Both have 8 -shot cylinders.

The little re-enforce above the pan screw isn't seen much after about 1720, and hardly at all by 1730.
It's a lovely old pistol!

Kind regards,
Richard.

[dana_w]

I suppose the pan covers are dovetailed into the cylinder, and thereby help to eliminate cross -fire.
Do the pan-covers slide forward? Very hard to see how it works from the photos.

I haven't dissembled the weapon, but there is a single touch hole which is behind the external visible cylinder. I assume the cylinder dovetails behind this area. Maybe I'll take the pistol apart someday.

I've posted some larger photos on my Antique Weapons site at Google+. You can use the magnifying glass there to get a closer look at the lock.

https://plus.google.com/+DanaWilliams/posts/3Aj5AFbMSNr


I think this pistol is Much older than the Collier, and going by the shape of the lock and cock, plus the butt-stock, I would say late 17th century to very early 18th century.

I speculate that the butt-stock came from an earlier weapon, possibly early 18th century.


Such pistols and carbines were produced from about 1680 to 1700.
Sometimes these were snaphaunce locks, which in a revolver was a little easier to make, as each cylinder had its own pan and sliding cover.


I should have mentioned those very early snaphaunce style revolvers. There are some good photos here:

https://thornews.com/2014/03/27/the-worlds-oldest-existing-revolver-1597/

[Pukka Bundook]

Dana,

I had to edit my post regarding the pan-covers, as I saw my mistake when I looked at it again.
No sliding covers! The barrel style also says late 17th C.

I think it is earlier than you think, but that is just my opinion. :-)

Kind regards,
Richard.

[dana_w]

I think it is earlier than you think, but that is just my opinion. :-)
.

Earlier would be good, but I try not to fool myself by being overly optimistic.

[Pukka Bundook]

Caution is always a good thing Dana.

One thing I should have said, is that I have never seen one with a wooden fore-end before.
Very original!

R.

[fernando]

If you don't mind me hijacking your thread Dana, i would like to post a Portuguese shoulder gun, said to be from the first half 17th. century, with a rotating cylinder system. It is part of a private collection in exhibition at the Oporto Military Museum; or it was, as the last time i have been there, i didn't see it; Museums can be mysterious some times :confused: .
The pictures are horrible and i don't have full info about its functioning, but it appears that some of the details are ingenious.

.

[dana_w]

If you don't mind me hijacking your thread Dana, i would like to post a Portuguese shoulder gun, said to be from the first half 17th
.

Very nice Fernando. Thanks for posting.