indonesian blades ? Exact Origin ?

[francantolin]

Hello,

I have bought these two knives in flea market and don't really know much about.

The first seems to have a silver hilt (?), the blade and the scabbard seems to be more like a spear head ? Nice pamor ?...

The second is strange because the blade seems to be a small antique (?) spear head mixed with a more recent hilt (silver ?) and scabbard.

What do you think ? Age ? Origin ?

Thank you

Frankie

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, they're spear blades (tombak).

I would need to handle them to estimate age and close examination would be necessary to provide a supportable opinion on origin, however, from what I can see in the photos, the first one is possibly Javanese. The metuk (transition fitting between blade and shaft) appears to be missing from this first blade and it looks like it has been replaced with a brass fitting.

[kronckew]

a good reference: from our Brother ref. site (http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/)

Malay world edged weapons (http://old.blades.free.fr)

click on the spears picture...

[Rick]

The handle on the second example looks very much like the ferrule from a spear .

[francantolin]

Thank you all for comments , informations and internet links !!

I live in Switzerland so unfortunately really difficult to meet ...

As I can see in internet , the first one is called a lading terus ,

For the second, do you think the scabbard is okay with this blade or better if I look for any other more ''original'' ?!


Thank you
Best regards

Frankie

[Henk]

Don't change anything on these tombaks. Very nice find. Congrats!!

[francantolin]

Thank's a lot !!

[A. G. Maisey]

Regarding applicable names.

"Lading terus" is a Malay term, it is not a term that is used in Jawa.

Both these tombak would be called a tombak in Jawa.

If a completely new set of dress had been made they would probably be called a "tombak, stel golok" , at least in Solo that would be the case, and probably in the rest of Central Jawa too.

But the base, operative word would be tombak, this is because the blade of the tombak is the tombak, in the same way that the blade of the keris is the keris. It does not change its name simply because it changes its dress, if it is necessary, the dress is described separately.

From memory I think it was Gardner who gave us "lading terus"; in Malay as spoken on the Peninsula this term may make sense, but in Javanese & Indonesian it is nonsense.

One of the problems with the way in which the keris and the tombak are seen in the societies which have taken these items of cultural heritage from their place of origin is that the mental attitude towards them is somewhat different.

Frankly, neither of the sets of dress on these two tombak look to be indigenous to my eye. It is entirely possible that this dress may have been made in S.E.Asia, but I would guess, more likely by a dealer or collector in that area, than by the people who regard these things as cultural heritage.