The Sinhalese Kastane: Its Development, Decoration and Symbolism

[Jim McDougall]

I have decided to open a thread specifically addressed to the Sinhalese kastane as described in the title, in hopes that we might have focused discussion on the many aspects and sometimes complex aspects of these fascinating Sri Lankan swords and their history .
There is of course a concurrently running thread titled 'Sinhala/Sri Lankan swords', however there has been considerable consternation on that thread becoming overburdened with the notable complexities of the kastane in particular.

Obviously the kastane is one of the most distinctly recognizable of Sri Lankan swords, however it would seem that it requires its own specifically titled thread to address its inherent complexities without disturbing a the other threads apparently broader scope.

Some of the aspects of the well known kastane which have been brought to discussion have been
1. Just how old is the zoomorphically featured hilt, and what creatures are represented on its basic forms. While most references typically list the pommel as having a lionhead , which seems to correspond to the name of the people on this island, as well as the island itself (sinha=lion), Sinhala and Sinhalese....there are apparently some variations of the hilt.

2. There are interesting details in the important example of the kastane which was brought to Japan from the historic Keicho mission sent by Date Masamune and returned in 1620. It would be good to examine objectively the resources and data addressing this sword specifically, as has been done in degree on the other thread noted, but hopefully may be continued here.

3. The kastane appears to have developed from earlier combat weapons into the more regalia oriented court sword form in high embellishment. Hoping to establish some type of chronological line of development.

4. Many kastane of the 18th century seem to be mounted with VOC (Dutch East India Company) blades. Were these mounted to supply Sinhalese warriors? or were these used by Dutch sailors using local hilts and the blades off issued hangers?
We know the British were there as well, but as far as I have known, no blades (except bayonets) were ever marked by the English EIC. What other trade or colonial blades have been found on kastane?

I very much look forward to discussion focused on the kastane here, and to add to the advancing knowledge and understanding we have gained on the forum within other threads and discussions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have decided to open a thread specifically addressed to the Sinhalese kastane as described in the title, in hopes that we might have focused discussion on the many aspects and sometimes complex aspects of these fascinating Sri Lankan swords and their history .
There is of course a concurrently running thread titled 'Sinhala/Sri Lankan swords', however there has been considerable consternation on that thread becoming overburdened with the notable complexities of the kastane in particular.

Obviously the kastane is one of the most distinctly recognizable of Sri Lankan swords, however it would seem that it requires its own specifically titled thread to address its inherent complexities without disturbing a the other threads apparently broader scope.

Some of the aspects of the well known kastane which have been brought to discussion have been
1. Just how old is the zoomorphically featured hilt, and what creatures are represented on its basic forms. While most references typically list the pommel as having a lionhead , which seems to correspond to the name of the people on this island, as well as the island itself (sinha=lion), Sinhala and Sinhalese....there are apparently some variations of the hilt.

2. There are interesting details in the important example of the kastane which was brought to Japan from the historic Keicho mission sent by Date Masamune and returned in 1620. It would be good to examine objectively the resources and data addressing this sword specifically, as has been done in degree on the other thread noted, but hopefully may be continued here.

3. The kastane appears to have developed from earlier combat weapons into the more regalia oriented court sword form in high embellishment. Hoping to establish some type of chronological line of development.

4. Many kastane of the 18th century seem to be mounted with VOC (Dutch East India Company) blades. Were these mounted to supply Sinhalese warriors? or were these used by Dutch sailors using local hilts and the blades off issued hangers?
We know the British were there as well, but as far as I have known, no blades (except bayonets) were ever marked by the English EIC. What other trade or colonial blades have been found on kastane?

I very much look forward to discussion focused on the kastane here, and to add to the advancing knowledge and understanding we have gained on the forum within other threads and discussions.


Salaams Jim ~ What a splendid idea to open this thread. You questions are very interesting and echo your final paragraph which I certainly endorse.

I wondered what the best way would be to enter this particular discussion and have decided that people may better get a grasp of the broad time-span by focusing on the three invading countries presence in reverse order i.e. The British, Dutch and Portuguese periods.

One aspect of all three periods is in fact The Kastane ...worn by one particular group of Sri Lankan dignitaries in what was practically a development of the landed gentry..an upper class Caste almost; The Mudalyars. I refer Forum to http://karava.org/other/mudaliyars for in depth detail on the subject and further reading;

Quote''Mudaliyars
Mudaliyar is a South Indian and Tamil name for ‘first’ and a person endowed with wealth. References to the traditional Mudalis of Sri Lanka are to be found in historical literature such as the Rajavaliya, Mukkara Hatana and also Portuguese and Dutch colonial records. In feudal Sri Lanka Mudali was a military title and as such was borne only by the Kshatriya warrior caste. They were royal military officials.

The 18th century Dutch rulers appointed a few migrant Tamil Vellalas as Mudaliyars . The British who succeeded the Dutch appointed large numbers of Mudaliyars from several castes and communities in the 19th century by enlisting natives who were most likely to serve the British masters with utmost loyalty. Most of them eventually formed a caste identity called Govigama and created an interlinked family network. They called themselves Hamus and their homes Walauvas.

This class resembled English country squires, complete with large land grants from the British, residences of unprecedented scale (Referred to by the Tamil word Walauu or Walvoo) and British granted native titles - which their descendants now use as surnames. They had a uniform consisting of a Somana cloth, a long coat with decorative buttons, a sash and a short ceremonial sword called Kasthana (a corruption of 'Katana' a type of Japanese sword blade)"Unquote.

(An interesting last comment but one which is generally not agreed with here.)
************************************************** ******

Here below is a Mudalyars Kastane and a series of men given the tittle..shown wearing the weapon.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all Note to Library;

A vast amount exists pertinent to Royal Workshops at;

http://www.craftrevival.org/Extralinks.asp?PageCode=P00014

http://www.craftrevival.org/CraftArtDetails.asp?CountryCode=SRI%20LANKA&CraftCode=003531


This description below from http://members.tripod.com/~images_of_ceylon/arms.html struck me as pertinent though there are many others and it is important to realize that dragon may mean Gargoyle, Lion, Deity or anything conjured up broadly related...

For another superb example of a described and illustrated blade please see http://www.caravanacollection.com/?project=kasthane-sword not shown here.

Kastana (or Kasthane) http://members.tripod.com/~images_of_ceylon/arms.html

Quote''The national sword of Ceylon. Typically a short curved single-edged watered blade, double-edged at the point. The hilt comprises a knuckle-guard and down-turned quillons, each terminating in a dragon's head with large in-set eyes. The dragon's head is usually decorated throughout with gold or silver panels and the pommel with tongue is formed from a piece of wood or red coral. The dragon's mane trails down the grip and is decorated with silver and gilt repousse floral designs. The entire hilt is often made of silver or gold and even inlaid with jewels. The blade close to the hilt is decorated with floral or thatched designs. The scabbard is made from wood and is covered with embossed and chased silver worked with flowers with leafy borders and richly ornamental.

The swords were intended to serve as badges of rank. Rev. James Cordiner in 1807 wrote that everyone in office wears a sword with a silver hilt and scabbard. These swords were made in the Royal workshops known as the "Rankadu Pattala" or "golden sword workshop" and the quality of the piece always depended on the rank of the wearer."Unquote.

Thus positive evidence supporting the theory about badge of rank status of this weapon coupled with the Mudaliyar detail in the previous post linking back through the 3 separate invading groups. It is however quite tantalizing that pre-Portuguese history continues to beckon since much of the detail in the Kastane is related to early religious design influence.

Was the Kastane a result of joint workshops design with the Portuguese or is it a purely Sri Lankan concept? Perhaps a map of the region showing the area of occupation over which Portugal held sway could form part of the clue.

See below the area controlled by Portugal; Would an invader nation be positioned to negotiate the design of such an iconic sword with only half the territory under its control...and a sword which ostensibly spread to other unconquered Kingdoms from this tenuous hold? Conversely did the design spring solely from Sri Lankan historical influence?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Rick]

I'm not seeing the word 'Dragon' anywhere in the description given:
http://www.caravanacollection.com/?project=kasthane-sword
This especially fine kasthane has a silver pommel chiseled as a typical simha (lion) head with a prominent crest made up of an entwined liya-pata motif covered in sheet gold. A narrow, pala-peti design is around the mouth and this too has been covered in sheet gold. The gaping mouth has an orange agate or carnelian tongue that projects right out of the mouth and rows of especially sharp and naturalistically-rendered teeth. The snout on each side has a characteristic 'S' scroll. The eyes are large and distinct and comprise pink sapphires in gold mounts and with magnificently scrolled eyebrows. The ears are prominent and in leaf form. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I'm not seeing the word 'Dragon' anywhere in the description given:
http://www.caravanacollection.com/?project=kasthane-sword
This especially fine kasthane has a silver pommel chiseled as a typical simha (lion) head with a prominent crest made up of an entwined liya-pata motif covered in sheet gold. A narrow, pala-peti design is around the mouth and this too has been covered in sheet gold. The gaping mouth has an orange agate or carnelian tongue that projects right out of the mouth and rows of especially sharp and naturalistically-rendered teeth. The snout on each side has a characteristic 'S' scroll. The eyes are large and distinct and comprise pink sapphires in gold mounts and with magnificently scrolled eyebrows. The ears are prominent and in leaf form. :shrug:


Salaams Rick No I didn't say that though the wording in my badly constructed sentence could be misleading and I have corrected the mistake thank you..I have placed the web coordinates for the Caravana item as you have written but the one I write at length about is a different quote of which there are lots...for example and by typing into web search Kastane Dragon masses of similar detail is supplied....such as:

From The Victoria and Albert Museum see http://www.vam.ac.uk/users/node/17494

Quote"Sword and sheath (kastane) with a dragon-headed pommel

Steel, chased and embossed gold sheath
Travancore, Kerala, India
19th century
Museum nos. 2573:1,2(IS)

The kastane is the national sword of Sri Lanka. It typically has a short curved single-edged blade, double-edged at the point. The hilt comprises a knuckle-guard and down-turned quillons, each terminating in a dragon's head. The swords were intended to serve as badges of rank; the quality of ornamentation depending on the status of the wearer.

The establishment of European trading contacts with South Asia by the late 16th and early 17th century led to these swords becoming fashionable dress accessories among European gentlemen. A kastane can be seen in an equestrian portrait of Colonel Alexander Popham at Littlecote House in the care of the Royal Armouries Collection.''Unquote

I'm not in the business of issuing edicts on whether this was a cat or a lizard, a lion or a Makara since it could well be down to artistic licence and as you may know some deities morphed through several phases; The Lion even taking on Elephant form and the Makara or other deities vaulting from one design shape or imagined mythical style to another and at best very easily confused with each other. I leave that with the experts!

One part of the design I did like was the humano/crocodile face on the handguard...most peculiar! Perhaps we can address design features as we progress..and many thanks for the question about the dragon.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

This description struck me as pertinent though there are many others and it is important to realize that dragon may mean Gargoyle, Lion, Deity or anything conjured up broadly related…for another superb example of a described and illustrated blade please see http://www.caravanacollection.com/?project=kasthane-sword

Kastana (or Kasthane)

The national sword of Ceylon. Typically a short curved single-edged watered blade, double-edged at the point. The hilt comprises a knuckle-guard and down-turned quillons, each terminating in a dragon's head with large in-set eyes. The dragon's head is usually decorated throughout with gold or silver panels and the pommel with tongue is formed from a piece of wood or red coral. The dragon's mane trails down the grip and is decorated with silver and gilt repousse floral designs. The entire hilt is often made of silver or gold and even inlaid with jewels. The blade close to the hilt is decorated with floral or thatched designs. The scabbard is made from wood and is covered with embossed and chased silver worked with flowers with leafy borders and richly ornamental.

The swords were intended to serve as badges of rank. Rev. James Cordiner in 1807 wrote that everyone in office wears a sword with a silver hilt and scabbard. These swords were made in the Royal workshops known as the "Rankadu Pattala" or "golden sword workshop" and the quality of the piece always depended on the rank of the wearer.
Well, i can see why Rick might have been confused by your post Ibrahiim. You write "This description struck me as pertinent…." and then end that sentence with a link before quoting from a completely different source which you do not credit. While i do not wish to imply that you were being purposefully deceptive here i do hope you can see how this might seem misleading to some.
It should also seem obvious that simply because one can find numerous references to the kastane hilt as a "dragon" does not in anyway prove that ANY of these hilts were ever intended to be dragons or anything other than a lion. How many times misinformation is repeated on the internet does not in turn make these misinterpreted statements "facts" and they cannot really be used to support any theory that the pommels of kastanes are meant to represent anything other than a lion. Even one of your "dragon" descriptions goes into detail about the mane of the "dragon", not a detail usually ascribed to dragons throughout various cultures. The stylized manes on these creatures should be a clue that these are indeed lions being depicted on these pommels. Certainly there is some "artist license" involved in the depiction of the lion which is proofed out by the variants that we find in existence, but i seriously doubt that court artists would be permitted to change the actual symbolism of the hilt by depicting some completely different creature than what is traditionally designated for the form. I have yet to see a true kastane pommel that cannot clearly be seen to be meant as a stylized lion head. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well, i can see why Rick might have been confused by your post Ibrahiim. You write "This description struck me as pertinent…." and then end that sentence with a link before quoting from a completely different source which you do not credit. While i do not wish to imply that you were being purposefully deceptive here i do hope you can see how this might seem misleading to some.
It should also seem obvious that simply because one can find numerous references to the kastane hilt as a "dragon" does not in anyway prove that ANY of these hilts were ever intended to be dragons or anything other than a lion. How many times misinformation is repeated on the internet does not in turn make these misinterpreted statements "facts" and they cannot really be used to support any theory that the pommels of kastanes are meant to represent anything other than a lion. Even one of your "dragon" descriptions goes into detail about the mane of the "dragon", not a detail usually ascribed to dragons throughout various cultures. The stylized manes on these creatures should be a clue that these are indeed lions being depicted on these pommels. Certainly there is some "artist license" involved in the depiction of the lion which is proofed out by the variants that we find in existence, but i seriously doubt that court artists would be permitted to change the actual symbolism of the hilt by depicting some completely different creature than what is traditionally designated for the form. I have yet to see a true kastane pommel that cannot clearly be seen to be meant as a stylized lion head. :shrug:

Salaams David, Certainly no deception on my behalf. I simply illustrate that learned bodies such as The Victoria and Albert describe the hilt in different ways and it is not my intention to go into why they think a dragon has a mane.. After all you may view the hilt as a lion like shape but many other specialists use a different explanation including prestigious museums etc.

As I also point out I prefer to leave the discussion about Lion or whatever else it may be to the experts unless you know for certain that it is created from a Lion..and when such an interesting side topic exists as yet to be unfurled as we analyse the pre Portuguese period and look into the swords historical and religious influences.

What is also interesting about Ricks quote from Caravana is the part that is missing .. The Bibliography... which mentions a certain king whose Kastane is now in museum in Sri Lanka but which is unclear as to which king?... and that turns out to be the 7th in succession in power; at the same time as the Portuguese early period. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lkawgw/gen3000.html King Bhuvanaikabahu the 7th.

I do, however, agree that my sentence structure was open to misinterpretation and I have corrected that mistake and though I had lost the reference I have now checked my notes, discovered the reference and placed the quote correctly using as close a professional structure as I can; I think near enough to the Harvard Referencing system as we need apply.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

Salaams David, Certainly no deception on my behalf. I simply illustrate that learned bodies such as The Victoria and Albert describe the hilt in different ways and it is not my intention to go into why they think a dragon has a mane.. After all you may view the hilt as a lion like shape but many other specialists use a different explanation including prestigious museums etc.
Perhaps you have missed my point Ibrahiim, which was more about the WAY you presented the information than the information itself.
I would be more inclined to view prestigious museums such as the Victoria and Albert as "generalists" rather than "specialists". They are a museum of art and design that houses almost 5 million objects ranging from fashion and David Bowie to gothic art and photojournalism. I don't think that it would be fair to say that they are "specialists" on the kastane simply because they are a well established museum.
I am not sure what "experts" you are referring to that you would rather leave this discussion to, however i would like to point out that the zoomorphic symbolism of the pommel is the very first discussion point Jim brings up in his recap on the past discussions and i have only posted here because YOU yourself have brought the subject up yet again. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Perhaps you have missed my point Ibrahiim, which was more about the WAY you presented the information than the information itself.
I would be more inclined to view prestigious museums such as the Victoria and Albert as "generalists" rather than "specialists". They are a museum of art and design that houses almost 5 million objects ranging from fashion and David Bowie to gothic art and photojournalism. I don't think that it would be fair to say that they are "specialists" on the kastane simply because they are a well established museum.
I am not sure what "experts" you are referring to that you would rather leave this discussion to, however i would like to point out that the zoomorphic symbolism of the pommel is the very first discussion point Jim brings up in his recap on the past discussions and i have only posted here because YOU yourself have brought the subject up yet again. :)


Salaams David, The specific parameters of this thread are indeed outlined at #1 and in each of the three categories of recommended study,(Its Development, Decoration and Symbolism) the design features are dominant.

Naturally when viewing the key area of early European involvement it is important to realise that there are three prisms to look through ... one for each invading nation. Getting beyond the 16th C is in itself wrought with inconsistency not least because of the socio-political nature of the beast.(excuse pun)

The Lion Makara debate has been modified; replaced by a more carefully considered, balanced overview and in sympathy with the religious and cultural traditions of Sri Lanka. The fact is we don't know what form the artists were considering at the time nor whether the artists were working alone or with Portuguese artisans on these Kastane. Can you say that it is a Lion? Can you say you are sure what the artisans were doing in the Kotte Royal Workshops 500 years ago? If so, please do prove it.

It may be noted that simply viewing the hilt from the western ideal of Zoomorphic fails to address the full story since some of the Deities are half humanoid; take for example the little face on the hand guard (half human half crocodile at #2 above) thus they take the form more of the demi-god..though that is also a generalization and since many of the deities transform, change and re enter the equation as a completely different monster type... depending upon what phase they are depicting.

Another half humanoid monster "Kirtimukha" sometimes decorates the Kastane Rainguard see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12134&page=2&pp=30&highlight=indian+armour at #56.

Nevertheless the in-depth study of pre 1505 AD Portuguese involvement has yet to be administered on this thread but research and notes are well in hand. What form the hilt actually is may be impossible to absolutely determine but eventually this may be part of the intrigue and only really possible with the insight of some Guru and historical master specializing in Buddhist/ Hindu religious expression.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Beautifully added material Ibrahiim, and I do appreciate you following the course of questions I hoped to address here.
No worries on the relatively inconsequential slip in wording as the corpus of material you are searching is of considerable volume and trying to present that much data can be daunting . I commend your courtesy in responding to comments pointing out any errors, and it is always comforting to know that these are being carefully observed to avoid any misperceptions in the data being presented.

I very much agree that it is profoundly difficult to consider what might be in the minds of artists and artisans or long ago, and all we can do is try to consider contextual material and speculate on plausible possibilities.
The concept of therionthropic human/animal beings extends far into prehistory, case in point the 'sorcerer of Les Trois Freres in the cave in France of some 30,000 years ago (attached). We cannot know the exact meaning or metaphoric concept of what this painting meant, but we believe he was a shamanic figure and with totemic value in his characterization.

[David]

Just an interesting aside Jim, we may need to wonder what was in the mind of Henri Breuil when he made that sketch of the "Sorcerer" back in the 1920s when we look at an actual photograph of the cave drawing made years later. ;)
http://www.strangehistory.net/2011/07/06/cave-art-cobblers/

[Jim McDougall]

To continue my earlier post from an outside interruption, the point I was alluding to with the mysterious therionthrope in Trois Freres was of course that these curious figures, just as in considerable ethnographic iconography or for that matter even medieval heraldry etc it is often hard to determine what is actually represented . We can of course speculate using known contexts associated with the example being considered, but these things can seldom be proven with any large degree of certainty.

It seems well substantiated that the ancient mythology of Sinhala has considerable focus on the lion, therefore seemed well in place by the time of trade contacts and later colonial incursions. With this it seems quite reasonable to assume that the sinha (lion) would be represented on the pommel of these hilts . As with many forms of Asian iconography, the embellishment and flourishes extend far beyond what western interpretations of various creatures might expect.

Since there seem to be variations on the appearance of the creatures featured on the pommel of different examples of the kastane, we have clearly instances of artistic license possible, as well as potentially other influences affecting the portrayal of the figures on the hilts.

I believe the analysis of these varying forms are more to the artistic aspects iconographically and individual examples should of course be attended to on their own merits and unique features.

Returning to the larger scope of our discussion, what we are trying to determine is just how long ago the use of figured iconography began its use on Sinhalese swords, specifically the kastane. Just how far back does the kastane hilt as familiar today go back in Sinhalese history?

Until the discussions on the previous thread ('Sinhalese/Sri Lankan Swords) I had assumed the Sendai Museum sword to be one of the earliest examples of the hilt (c.1600-20) but interesting instances farther back were presented by Prasanna. Hopefully we can gain more data and perhaps images of those.

The Sendai (Hasekura) example (Keicho Mission) for Date Masamune of Japan has proven most interesting with the question of exactly where it was obtained by Hasekura. While it was speculated that this sword was acquired from Philip III of Spain while the mission was in Madrid, it is now my understanding that this was probably acquired in the Philippines in the two years Hasekura was there. Rather than being a 'presented' item, this seems to have been more an acquired item along with the kris with it. This seems more in line with the lack of documented narrative concerning these items.

The questions which intrigue me on this particular kastane are more toward the interesting blade, of somewhat falchion form and with the 'monster' head at the blade peak which indeed does correspond to similar creature detail on a glaive type Chinese blade posted by Vandoo. We know of course that the Philippines as a trade entrepot had presence from Sri Lanka, China, Indonesia and of course the major powers .
Could this kastane have been mounted with this blade in the Philippines and been acquired by Hasekura as an interesting novelty to present to the Date?

These are the questions I hope to follow here. The dialogue on the artistic representation on kastane hilts is always interesting, but I think that its subjective nature often creates a certain volatility. Just the same, these figures are of course an integral part of the history of this weapon, and should be approached with a great deal of patience as differing views are examined.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim,

Thank you for bringing the thread back to track. Your suggestion of the two weapons being procured not presented is well placed as no proof appears in the meetings of Hasekura on his travels having been presented with these items moreover there are several details indicative of the purchase or acquired nature of these weapons viz;

Japan in Philippine history
By Ambeth R. Ocampo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
10:42 pm | Thursday, October 31st, 2013

Quote"Hasekura Tsunenaga was a Japanese samurai who was received in Mexico, Spain, the Vatican, and the Philippines as a Spanish ambassador in a romantic seven-year journey. He was given an audience by King Philip III in Madrid, was baptized at the Real Monasterio de Descalzas Reales where the Duke Lerma stood as ninong, then was received by Pope Paul V and granted honorary citizenship by the City of Rome.

Hasekura’s last stop was Manila, where he wrote a cheerful letter to his son in 1619 saying he was shopping and preparing to sail home. The original letter is displayed in the Sendai City Museum together with an Indonesian kris and a dagger from Sri Lanka that Hasekura acquired in the Philippines. I was disappointed that no Philippine artifacts were extant. Not in the exhibition are archival documents on the Hasekura mission from the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla written during Hasekura’s stay in Manila: an inventory of presents sent to the Shogun by the Governor-General of the Philippines, reports from the Bishop of Cebu and the Archbishop of Manila regarding the rivalry between the Jesuits and the other religious orders doing missionary work in Japan, and reports on the continued persecution of Christians in Japan".Unquote

There is an interesting background description to the Kris at forum on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12306&page=2&pp=30&highlight=kris+kastane by A.G. MAISEY that is essential background reading and from which I have recovered the picture below.

Wikepedia carries the same artwork and under it states that they were "acquired" from The Philippines. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga

See also http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return;

Quote"Sendai City Museum Hasekura reported his travels to Date Masamune upon his arrival in Sendai. It is recorded that he remitted a portrait of Pope Paul V, a portrait of himself in prayer (see website), and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines, all preserved today in the Sendai City Museum."Unquote

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug: Readers may wish to update on the epic voyage of Hasekura Tsunenaga at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga with particular reference to weapons (see my previous post) he presented to Date Masamune, the Daimyo of Sendai on his return to Japan one of which forms one of the earliest Kastane preserved today...in the Sendai Museum in Japan.

Using the finest library on Ethnographic weapons, (our own) and web searches; No proof seems to exist that these two weapons were either obtained together or that they were presented, however, some persuasive detail exists already detailed at my previous post that they may have been procured in the Philipinnes. In addition, logically, had they been presented by King Philip III would there not have been more exacting supporting evidence?

The blade appears similar to a Storta and naturally therefor similar to the Falschion yet also rather similar to the Chinese form...and what is more ...the fullers are remarkably like Chinese style as shown in the spear head and fullers below .The monster at the blade tip is very much in the style Makara as shown in the attending Makara detail..for comparison.

* What blade style is this and how did it arrive in the Philippines??

* Is this a Kastane hilt form following in the imaginative mythical and stylistic Lion design with accompanying Deities over a typical Kastane hilt formed around a hand and cross guard with "apparent" quillons in the Vajra style and the remains of a Vee shaped rainguard?

* Why is it that no scabbard seems to exist?

* Could Hasekura Tsunenaga have modified his coat of arms to include a cross and have had that stamped on the Kastane (hybrid) blade? (He was, after all, converted to Christianity, baptised in Spain and had a European name; "Francisco Felipe Faxicura.")

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent Ibrahiim!!! I had overlooked that letter of 1619 and its content, which of course mentions Hasekura 'shopping' (the letter now in Sendai Museum) and is on display with the kris and Ceylonese 'dagger' (actually a kastane). While we assume these were acquired in the Philippines, there is as yet no supporting narrative to accurately provide that provenance.

We note the curious blade of the kastane and the mythical beast feature and its remarkable similarity to Chinese weapons and such features. While we remain compelled to consider the acquisition point of this kastane to be the Philippines, that would seem to favor those regions with the strong trade presence of China there. Naturally many other regions are represented there as well.

The hilt style does seem to correspond to those of the kastane of course, but the blade is remarkably atypical. The scabbards on many forms of edged weapons in these regions seem less than durable in most cases, and these arms are often refurbished with new scabbards many times in their working lives. The fact that this one does not come with a scabbard en suite would suggest to me that it is less than a 'presentation' weapon, and far more likely to have been 'acquired'.
If the kastane and the kris were sent back to Japan prior to Hasekura's return and with a letter to his son, perhaps these items were at that point simply novelties meant for his son or his own keeping. The portrait of the Pope does not seem included in that transport back to Japan precluding his return, so it would seem that was specifically intended for Date Masemune
These edged weapons on the other hand, acquisitions seemingly less than presentation grade, were perhaps included as second thought to Date along with the portrait.

These circumstances might better facilitate the idea that perhaps Hasekura might indeed have adopted a heraldic arms in European style to reflect his status as a baptized Christian, which was of course powerfully important to him . It remains unclear whether these stamped devices on the blade may have been applied in this regard, but the possibility is interesting .

Returning to the broader scope of our discussion, one of the reasons for such interest in the 'Hasekura' kastane is to establish a provenance example of the kastane form hilt has been to establish a time frame for the development of the hilt style.

While there has been considerable discussion on what zoomorphic creatures are depicted in the decorative motif on these hilts, the very nature of these depictions remain quite subjective and notably debated . Naturally since the artistic license inherent in depictions of mythical creatures as well as stylistic renderings of actual ones is often profound, it is difficult to accurately analyze these figures . It does have certain importance in the possible reasons for variation or exactly what creature is represented however.

For example, and treading carefully into sensitive matters, is it possible that the lionhead (Sinha) is indeed represented on all distinctly Sinhalese examples of the kastane, and that the variants might be provenanced from other ethnic origins? Naturally I implore complete objectivity here, and offer the suggestion only as a possible accounting for the variations in style.

I do not believe that the styling of these zoomorphic hilts was directly resultant from European collaboration, however it is known that beautifully carved ivory hits were produced in Ceylon for European markets as early as 16th century. The work of these artisans certainly had considerable bearing on Europeans fascinated with the exotica of these faraway places, and I believe there was likely considerable cross diffusion in place through the colonial periods.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Excellent Ibrahiim!!! I had overlooked that letter of 1619 and its content, which of course mentions Hasekura 'shopping' (the letter now in Sendai Museum) and is on display with the kris and Ceylonese 'dagger' (actually a kastane). While we assume these were acquired in the Philippines, there is as yet no supporting narrative to accurately provide that provenance.

We note the curious blade of the kastane and the mythical beast feature and its remarkable similarity to Chinese weapons and such features. While we remain compelled to consider the acquisition point of this kastane to be the Philippines, that would seem to favor those regions with the strong trade presence of China there. Naturally many other regions are represented there as well.

The hilt style does seem to correspond to those of the kastane of course, but the blade is remarkably atypical. The scabbards on many forms of edged weapons in these regions seem less than durable in most cases, and these arms are often refurbished with new scabbards many times in their working lives. The fact that this one does not come with a scabbard en suite would suggest to me that it is less than a 'presentation' weapon, and far more likely to have been 'acquired'.
If the kastane and the kris were sent back to Japan prior to Hasekura's return and with a letter to his son, perhaps these items were at that point simply novelties meant for his son or his own keeping. The portrait of the Pope does not seem included in that transport back to Japan precluding his return, so it would seem that was specifically intended for Date Masemune
These edged weapons on the other hand, acquisitions seemingly less than presentation grade, were perhaps included as second thought to Date along with the portrait.

These circumstances might better facilitate the idea that perhaps Hasekura might indeed have adopted a heraldic arms in European style to reflect his status as a baptized Christian, which was of course powerfully important to him . It remains unclear whether these stamped devices on the blade may have been applied in this regard, but the possibility is interesting .

Returning to the broader scope of our discussion, one of the reasons for such interest in the 'Hasekura' kastane is to establish a provenance example of the kastane form hilt has been to establish a time frame for the development of the hilt style.

While there has been considerable discussion on what zoomorphic creatures are depicted in the decorative motif on these hilts, the very nature of these depictions remain quite subjective and notably debated . Naturally since the artistic license inherent in depictions of mythical creatures as well as stylistic renderings of actual ones is often profound, it is difficult to accurately analyze these figures . It does have certain importance in the possible reasons for variation or exactly what creature is represented however.

For example, and treading carefully into sensitive matters, is it possible that the lionhead (Sinha) is indeed represented on all distinctly Sinhalese examples of the kastane, and that the variants might be provenanced from other ethnic origins? Naturally I implore complete objectivity here, and offer the suggestion only as a possible accounting for the variations in style.

I do not believe that the styling of these zoomorphic hilts was directly resultant from European collaboration, however it is known that beautifully carved ivory hits were produced in Ceylon for European markets as early as 16th century. The work of these artisans certainly had considerable bearing on Europeans fascinated with the exotica of these faraway places, and I believe there was likely considerable cross diffusion in place through the colonial periods.


Salaams Jim ~ I agree and perhaps we may examine your last point on styling though I cannot rule out diffusion / influence from a variety of European styles and since Sri Lanka had a healthy network of maritime links through the Moors of Sri Lanka their highly skilled seagoing experts and merchants, thus, goods as you note such as elaborately carved hilts whilst flowing out, could well have been balanced by sword forms flowing in...at least from the influence viewpoint. We may perhaps assume that Mediterranean swords including Jinetta and Nimcha variants could have been imported well before Portuguese intervention in 1505.

It is, however, worth viewing what parts of the Kastane are home grown and what parts are not...and having done that to see by stripping away the home grown structures what is left?


The hilt or handle is obviously Sri Lankan and taken from their rich Buddhist and Hindu traditions. Regarding gold, silver, blade making, ivory and gems~ evidence to show ivory carving specialists stretches back into their history. See The caste system incorporates the full range of specialists to take on the very elaborate work required and Royal Workshops were highly tuned to these methods. The abundance of religious deities spilling down the handguard, and finials on crossguard and rainguard is evidence of the very powerful influence from mythology and spiritual belief..In particular the so called Quillons form a reminder of ancient religious design clearly reflected from Vajra structures from ancient Buddhism. It could be argued that the quillons are purely artistic since they are neither there to trap an opponents sword nor can a finger be placed to give added pressure or power to a strike. The rainguard though practical in securing the weapon in the scabbard is elaborately decorated in scrolls or in the peacock style in line with Deity artform..

The blade is occasionally straight either straight or curved and can be elaborately worked in a way that reflects blade decoration also employed in Pihae Kheata knives.

What then having stripped away these local concepts and designs is left so that we may be able to indicate possible links to European, Indian or other weapons?


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[VANDOO]

THE KRIS PICTURED WITH THE KASTANE MAY BE CLOSER TO THE EARLY PHILIPPINE KRIS OR MALAY KRIS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THE MEASUREMENTS ON THE TWO ITEMS TO HELP DETERMINE IF THIS IS A KERIS OR A KRIS. THE TWO COUNTRYS WHERE THE KERIS BECAME LARGER AND CHANGED TO WHAT WE NOW CALL THE KRIS WE BELIEVE WERE MALAYSIA AND THE PHILIPPINES. LIKE THE KASTANE THE HISTORY OF THE KERIS IS UNSURE WITH MANY QUESTIONS UNANSWERED. I HAVE A VERY OLD KRIS SIMULAR TO THE ONE SHOWN THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ON THE FORUM BUT MORE QUESTIONS CAME UP THAN WERE ANSWERED.

[David]

THE KRIS PICTURED WITH THE KASTANE MAY BE CLOSER TO THE EARLY PHILIPPINE KRIS OR MALAY KRIS. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THE MEASUREMENTS ON THE TWO ITEMS TO HELP DETERMINE IF THIS IS A KERIS OR A KRIS. THE TWO COUNTRYS WHERE THE KERIS BECAME LARGER AND CHANGED TO WHAT WE NOW CALL THE KRIS WE BELIEVE WERE MALAYSIA AND THE PHILIPPINES. LIKE THE KASTANE THE HISTORY OF THE KERIS IS UNSURE WITH MANY QUESTIONS UNANSWERED. I HAVE A VERY OLD KRIS SIMULAR TO THE ONE SHOWN THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ON THE FORUM BUT MORE QUESTIONS CAME UP THAN WERE ANSWERED.
Barry, i wouldn't want to derail this thread that is specific to the kastane with a discussion on keris, but i don't think there is much doubt that the keris in the Sendai museum is indeed an Indonesian one. There may be some room for debate about it's exact origin (Bali, Jawa???), but it has too many tell-tale features (including kinatah which i have never seen on a Moro kris) of Malay work. I has been described as being 511mm in length, which i believe includes the hilt. A very detailed description of it can be found on this thread (post #40) link below, which i believe Ibrahiim has previously provided a link to and i would suggest that you revive that thread if you would like to discuss the keris so this thread can continue with it's specific investigation into the kastane. :) http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12306&page=2&pp=30&highlight=sendai+keris

[VANDOO]

I AGREE DAVID PERHAPS IT WOULD BE BEST TO REMOVE THE POSTS THAT MAY DERAIL THIS DISCUSSION INCLUDING THIS ONE. NOW I HAVE THE MEASUREMENTS AND IT IS FAIRLY LONG AS THESE KERIS GO BUT IT IS NOT COMPLETELY OUT OF THE KERIS SIZE RANGE. I WOULD APPRECIATE THE REMOVAL OF THE POSTS THANKS BARRY :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Note for comparison. There are several sword groups that may have influenced the Kastane design and viable evidence suggests who may have delivered similar sword forms throughout the early years and encompassing(and bracketing) the first Portuguese arrival in 1505. I turn to "Islamic Arms" by the late Anthony North for two such swords for comparisons. The vehicle for such cross pollination in styles are possibly the famous sea traders of Sri Lanka; The Moors. (see note below*)

The weapon displaying quillons with remarkably similar dragon style finials from the above "Islamic Arms" is Quote"The hilt of carved jade mounted in gold, the blade of watered steel Persian, late 15th century Topkapi Palace, Istanbul".Unquote.

The weapons known as Nimcha are equally intriguing as to potential design influence where Moroccan style may have been transmitted.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note.*See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Moors for a more detailed rendition of the Sri Lankan Moors..
Quote"Sri Lankan Moors (commonly referred to as Muslims) are the third largest ethnic group in Sri Lanka comprising 9.23% of the country's total population. They are predominantly followers of Islam. The Moors trace their ancestry to Arab traders (Moors) who settled in Sri Lanka some time between the 8th and 15th centuries."Unquote.

[Jim McDougall]

These are outstanding references Ibrahiim, and thank you for the interesting link to the online reference on the Sri Lankan Moors, which indeed adds some important perspective to understanding some of the ethnic and colonial complexity of Sri Lanka.

As you have well noted, Anthony North does address the potential influences of Venice and Northern Italy on these swords, and specifically cites the distinguished French arms historian Charles Buttin:
"...Charles Buttin, who had a considerable number of Moroccan swords in his own collection, and published a paper on them, detected a number of influences in their very individual hilts. He pointed out their similarity to the indigenous sword of Ceylon, the kastane, and discussed their relationship with European swords".
(from "Les Poignards et Les Sabres Marocains', C.Buttin, Hesperis, TomeXXVI, 1939, p.1)

In this the distinct similarities in the guard systems of the hilt are noted, and in his closing comments, North states, referring to the North African hilts, that "...at least one of the influences of these hilts-and perhaps the strongest-came from North Italy-possibly as early as the 15th century".

from "A Late 15th Century Italian Sword" , A.R.E.North, 'The Connoisseur, December , 1975, pp.238-241)

It would seem clear that the influences of Venice in their powerful trade networks almost certainly introduced their weapon forms and styling into many cultural spheres . In this case it would seem that this style hilt configuration quite likely was filtered into Sri Lanka through the Arab traders who populated the Sinhalese littoral in their ports.

The guard and quillon configuration was specifically placed on the original Italian swords to correspond to their unique style in fencing techniques and as part of the developing hand guard systems of these swords. It would seem that this quillon arrangement was adopted by Arabian and of course the North African regions noted in more of a stylistic sense.

In the case of the kastane, while the hilt form is of course stylistically similar, it has become even more vestigial in the downward quillons next to the blade, and the terminals of the guard and quillon are vehicles for the subordinate beast heads.

The identification of the key figure on the hilt, the zoomorphic on the pommel, of course remains a quandary, and it seems in most cases must be considered specifically with each example as there appear to be numerous variations. Naturally in the scope of journalistic references the pommel beast is described by authors in much variation, which seem to reflect whatever sources they may have used in their research.
In one article for example, a kastane in a news item from 2008 is described as "..an ornamental sword that was the symbol of office of the Kandyan Lords, Kings, Adigars and the Dissawas" . The head on the pommel is described as a makara, and in the photo, I must note that the creature does appear to have a snoutlike feature, very much like the architectural makara figures I have seen.
This particular article was written for the Sri Lanka Express by Emmanuel Silva (April 5, 2008) and expressed great concern for these valuable antiquities being dispersed in auctions, flea markets etc.

Naturally, this material is included here in the discussion impartially, for consideration in the examination of data and detail as we work toward learning more on the kastane.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim,
Thank you for your post and superb references putting some considerable meat on the bones of my previous notes. I delight in seeing your last paragraph noting the stylistic nature of the pommel in certain cases and underlining the great reverance applied to such iconic features whether Lion or Makara. Were the key concepts simply artistic impression and customer requirements? The Kandyan Kingdom, of course, never succumbed to Portuguese agression so it is difficult to imagine how they could have been involved in its design. One viable situation could be that the Moors having fetched various swords into the country and transmited the essentials of design to the Royal Workshops prior to the Portuguese influx; In that way it seems plausible that a Royal or VIP dagger sword could have found universal Sri Lankan favour..It seems that an essential European sword framework to which great embelishment was then added could carry the formula? A Sri Lankan Kastane (Kasthane) resplendent with embelishment and religious symbolism...perhaps built around a European basic form.

For interest below ~ Portrait of King Rajasingha II of Kandy (1608-1687) (Reign 1635 – 6 December 1687)
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

In more efforts to revisit articles and notes as well as reviewing the discussion, it seems that the complexities and conundrums of the mysterious kastane remain as elusive as ever. In continuing to examine the nature of the creatures imaged on the hilts of these swords, it seems that consideration of Sinhalese art as a whole may reveal some perspectives .

In "Medieval Sinhalese Art", (A.K. Coomaraswany, 1956) it is noted that "...medieval and modern Sinhalese art is essentially Indian art, but it is not modern Hindu, rather it is such an art as might have survived in some yet Buddhist part of the mainland, if Buddhism had not there been entirely merged in Hinduism"

In "A Royal Dagger of Ceylon" (J.F. Pieris, The Connoisseur, Jan-Jun 1938, Vol, CI) , it is stated that "...much ingenuity and art have been lavished by the Sinhalese craftsmen in adornment of his daggers". While clearly this article is toward the piha kaetta it is important to consider the notes toward this adornment, much of which concerns botanicals, but the use of the serapendiya is mentioned as "...a mythical creature whose decorative possibilities have been freely exploited by craftsmen".
Deraniyagala (1942, p.110) discusses the piha kaetta stating that early examples are unadorned but later featured the lions head, and in final form a floral scroll issued from the lions mouth

While these descriptions are toward the piha kaetta dagger, what is key are the references to the kind of decorative motif and artistic influences in place in Ceylon as the kastane developed . While it does seem that later some degree of influence may have been imported through European presence, I would consider that more nuanced than notable. Naturally I am referring to the decorative features of these swords, as my earlier comments on the guard structure of the hilts probably Italian filtered through Arab traders remain my opinion as stated.

To me it is extremely doubtful that the Sinhalese were in any way in league with the Portuguese in the evolution of the lionhead kastane hilt. The Kandyan kingdom and the Royal Workshops, which remained autonomous through and far beyond those times seem of course where this evolution probably occurred . It seems that artisans and craftsmen in these workshops, like other Sri Lankan artists, were taught to have a degree of latitude in their creativity. However they were also required to learn from early treatises such as the Vaijayanta, and the Rupavaliya how to draw gods and mythical animals.
Deraniyagala (p.101) notes this interesting description of the Royal Sword apparently from the Vaijayanta, "...the hilt of the sword should have a pommel of lotus petals; the middle part should be decorated and possess auspicious figures of lions etc."

What seems interesting here is that this obviously quite early reference notes the pommel with lotus petals, while the lion although auspicious, is curiously in a relatively subordinate position on the hilt. I am not familiar with this treatise nor its period, but it seems to note at least the use of some zoomorphic and botanical embellishment on Royal swords.

The extreme organization of the workshops at Kandy is described in a Dutch plan of the Royal Palace in 1765, "..showing armouries for different types of weapons and quarters for the armourers, and proves the great attention paid to weapons by the Sinhala royalty". (Deraniyagala, p.99).
The organization of these workshops and artisans was quite complex and specialized, but apparently in some cases weapons could be commissioned by others than royalty for specific fees. I am wondering if these private commissions, which obviously require further research, might account for some of the more notable variations in some kastane?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All... I am in more or less parallel agreement with the post above..(Thank You Jim !) indeed I find it extremely difficult to separate the design and workshop artistry involved in both Kastane and Piha Kheata in that I cannot imagine the Portuguese being involved in either... or put another way... if they were involved in one they must have had a hand in the other. The description of Royal Workshops mentions the same divisions being responsible for both weapons but no mention is alluded to Portuguese involvement in either.

Whilst some caution may be needed in viewing sketches of the period and since there are so few.. it seems the responsibility for such designs were purely down to Sri Lankan artesanship.

Where a difference evolves in the subject of the main hilt could it be that one Kingdom applied/favoured Lions and the other Makara? Perhaps it may simply be stylistic licence.

Oddly, whilst there are blade marks attributable to The Dutch (VOC) it seems there are none from the other invading powers and apparently none from the EIC though several reports speak of such marked blades.

An exceptional report may be viewed on http://www.craftrevival.org/Extralinks.asp?PageCode=P00014 detailing the craftsmen, Royal Workshops details and responsibilities, specialist gold and silver workers and sword makers etc etc ...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[napoleon]

is it known if any of these can be attributed to specific makers workshops or schools?also anyone care to show examples they own?and if these are derived of simpler undecorated earlier types does anyone know of any?regards napoleon

[Jim McDougall]

Napoleon, I very much agree! Those out there with examples please post them, we really need to see a range of examples so that we can look more into variations in the pommels and other features.
Very good question on the attribution to certain makers or schools. As far as I have known, these were invariably unsigned and produced by artisans who combined their skills on various elements of the swords.
We know that of course, the larger number of these seem to likely be from the Kandyan workshops. However, a great deal of consideration must be made toward variations of these swords possibly produced in other parts of the island.

I believe the interpretation of the style and form of the creatures, the pommel head in particular, may reflect either sinha (lion) or makara in various instances. It is always interesting seeing descriptions and captions in either auctions, catalogs or references often using the term makara in a rather collective sense where typically the lion head is what is actually depicted .

As far as I can see, the makara has a sort of trunk or projecting snout, where the lion of course does not. Again, it is extremely hard to identify what mythical creatures are represented

Ibrahiim, I believe you are spot on in your view that the variation in interpretation of the creatures may well be due to cultural, ethnic or politically oriented circumstances.

You bring up a very good point on the blades on these kastane. It seems unclear where the early blades came from but as previously mentioned a large number of Dutch VOC blades appear to be mounted in kastanes.
These were typically marked with the VOC blademark and a date, most seem to date in the 18th century (for some reason 1760s seem prevalent).

I don't believe Ive ever seen a Portuguese blade on one of these, nor British for that matter. Naturally these would be hard to identify as the majority of blades of these types were often Solingen produced . As earlier noted the English EIC did not mark sword blades, only firearms.

I do hope we can get some examples posted which can be examined comparatively .

[napoleon]

i just would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread ,as its been a pleasure to read so far, :)

[napoleon]

thank you jim for your reply,just a couple of thoughts,i dont know if there is a conection between travancore and candy,but some of the art on the capstones of the temples built by rajaraja cholan seem similar in decoration to the lion hilts on the sword in question ,also i dont know what they are called but there is a species of small dagger with elephant head pommels the trunk of which forms a knucklrbow but below this is a cross guard of far superior workmanship,they are usually cased in a plain brass sheath ,indian im sure, but its the cross guard thats relevant to the discusion, again great topic

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Napoleon, those are most interesting observations, and Travancore, along with other kingdoms and regions in South India did of course have connections to Sinhala from ancient times. We are of course considering that Indian art and symbolism is well represented in the creatures on these various kastane hilts.
It is interesting also that the Dutch VOC lost control of Travancore in the war with them (1739-1753).

One of the things we have been considering here is whether the apparent variations of kastane hilt (sinha or makara)are simply interpretive representations or distinctly intended figures that may reflect these hilts being from various parts of Ceylon.

We know that the 'Royal Swords', which were the more sumptuously produced examples of kastane were likely produced in the Royal workshops in Kandy. Regarding your question earlier on whether craftsmen were identified with certain swords, I found this in a reference online (from a New Delhi study, Craft Revival.org) , "...the names of various craftspeople are recorded in 'sannas' (royal edicts/charters) and in various other deeds but cannot be matched or associated with any particular piece of work". While this reference is regarding the craftsmen at the royal workshops collectively it does suggest a larger circumstance.

As for kastanes produced in other areas, it seems unlikely that it would be possible to attribute examples to certain makers or workshops as the hilts were made to hilt trade blades most likely. This brings me to the next question :

Where were blades obtained, and most likely mounted?

We have discussed earlier that one of the most distinctly recognized and identifiable blades often found on kastanes seem to be those marked with the Dutch VOC. These seem to invariably be with a year stamped with that balemark. They appear to be in most cases 18th century hanger type blades and dates are typically 1749; 1757; 1768;1775 but these years noted are from examples sold and from collections in recent years. Suggestions in earlier discussions noting years 1609 (the VOC was formed in 1602) and 1660 so they seem far too early and have generally been viewed as possibly 'talismanic ' numbers (c.f. 1414; 1441).

The Dutch were busily minting their coins for these colonies through the 18th century and it is interesting to see the VOC, dates and sometimes similar features like the four leaf from these coins also appear on sword blades. It seems from examples I have seen of other Dutch swords with VOC on larger arming swords that they are typically without these large dates on the blade, and with the other often seen motif sun, moon etc.
Would this suggest these dated swords were specifically for trade?

In a sale description (Christies, 2000) it is noted that VOC blades were traded to the Sinhalese and mounted locally, often remaining in use until the 20th c. The Dutch colonial period is regarded as 1658-1796 . While the Dutch controlled the maritime provinces, they never occupied Kandy.
After the war with Kandy, 1761-65, the King recognized Dutch sovereignty in the maritime provinces. The Dutch surrendered these to England in 1796.

It would seem that these blades coming into the trade ports, along with other hanger type blades unmarked probably from Solingen and Leige, would have been hilted locally in interpretations of the favored kastane.
We know that kastane like swords have been seen attributed to Southern India, Thailand and other locations.
Is it possible that the makara like hilts might have been produced in port regions in the north of Sri Lanka, Jaffna for example?

The Sinha type hilts perhaps may be more likely attributed to Colombo, Galle, Kotte? and again interpretations of the more classical swords of Kandy.

[Jim McDougall]

As I have continued researching, and having posted a concurrent thread in hopes of more information on the VOC blades, there are a number of ideas which come to mind regarding the disposition of these varying examples of the kastane.

I can recall over years reading of the renowned production of fine steel in Ceylon in which the wind fueled smelters date into ancient times. I always wondered why more Sinhalese blades were not known, did they not have bladesmiths to forge blades? Apparantly there were in Kandy, according t the records of the Royal Workshops.
It seems that the kastane produced in these workshops were relatively small in number, to the variations which in so many cases were mounted with Dutch VOC blades. It would seem perhaps that these blades coming into the ports controlled by the Dutch may well account for local production in those cities, and these blades naturally would not have been considered in the Royal Workshops for obvious reasons.

While the Hasekura example is considered in our discussion very much contextually as a provenanced example of the lionhead form hilt, the Popham example serves as an interesting example of the influences of these hilts in foreign settings. It seems that by the middle of the 17th century the lionhead hilt of the kastane had profound influence on the hilts of many Dutch cutlasses and hangers. There are apparently substantial numbers of versions of these lionheads as well as the fingerstalls and general look of the kastane known.
By around the end of the century numbers of these kinds of hilts were being adopted by the English on their cutlasses and hangers, with the interest in these forms already established in the prototype occurrence with Popham.

These beasthead pommels were termed doghead or lionhead apparently, and of course show interesting variation in form, though essentially of 'kastane' form.

It would seem, to elaborate further on what has already been suggested, that perhaps the port cities, and local armourers there, may account for the apparent sundry versions of the kastane and varying interpretation of the decoration. While these often have equally varying blade forms of the same cutlass or hanger type, it would seem that many were either Solingen or Liege products. As noted, by around the 1730s it appears that the VOC blades begin to be seen with the boldly emblazoned dates, and these last until 1770s .

The VOC was of course a private company, not military, and perhaps the popularity of these exotic lionhead hangers and cutlasses eventually led to these men seeking these kinds of hilts on their issued swords. It is tempting to consider this scenario along with the circumstances of trade blades being in place as well. It is of course known that in many colonial situations, there are cottage industries of local artisans supplying soldiers and colonists with these kinds of exotica .
Naturally the high end kastane which would have remained in the perview of the Royal Workshops and in Kandyan regions would have remained true to form and without trade or issue blades.

Meanwhile, the locally produced versions of kastane in the port cities in the Sinhalese littoral would possibly have reflected other ethnic or demographic variation in degree in their interpretations, and accordingly been mounted with these trade or issue blades .

I hope to hear the views of others toward these thoughts as always, and look forward to continuing these discussions with these perspectives in mind and their plausibility.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

As I have continued researching, and having posted a concurrent thread in hopes of more information on the VOC blades, there are a number of ideas which come to mind regarding the disposition of these varying examples of the kastane.

I can recall over years reading of the renowned production of fine steel in Ceylon in which the wind fueled smelters date into ancient times. I always wondered why more Sinhalese blades were not known, did they not have bladesmiths to forge blades? Apparantly there were in Kandy, according t the records of the Royal Workshops.
It seems that the kastane produced in these workshops were relatively small in number, to the variations which in so many cases were mounted with Dutch VOC blades. It would seem perhaps that these blades coming into the ports controlled by the Dutch may well account for local production in those cities, and these blades naturally would not have been considered in the Royal Workshops for obvious reasons.

While the Hasekura example is considered in our discussion very much contextually as a provenanced example of the lionhead form hilt, the Popham example serves as an interesting example of the influences of these hilts in foreign settings. It seems that by the middle of the 17th century the lionhead hilt of the kastane had profound influence on the hilts of many Dutch cutlasses and hangers. There are apparently substantial numbers of versions of these lionheads as well as the fingerstalls and general look of the kastane known.
By around the end of the century numbers of these kinds of hilts were being adopted by the English on their cutlasses and hangers, with the interest in these forms already established in the prototype occurrence with Popham.

These beasthead pommels were termed doghead or lionhead apparently, and of course show interesting variation in form, though essentially of 'kastane' form.

It would seem, to elaborate further on what has already been suggested, that perhaps the port cities, and local armourers there, may account for the apparent sundry versions of the kastane and varying interpretation of the decoration. While these often have equally varying blade forms of the same cutlass or hanger type, it would seem that many were either Solingen or Liege products. As noted, by around the 1730s it appears that the VOC blades begin to be seen with the boldly emblazoned dates, and these last until 1770s .

The VOC was of course a private company, not military, and perhaps the popularity of these exotic lionhead hangers and cutlasses eventually led to these men seeking these kinds of hilts on their issued swords. It is tempting to consider this scenario along with the circumstances of trade blades being in place as well. It is of course known that in many colonial situations, there are cottage industries of local artisans supplying soldiers and colonists with these kinds of exotica .
Naturally the high end kastane which would have remained in the perview of the Royal Workshops and in Kandyan regions would have remained true to form and without trade or issue blades.

Meanwhile, the locally produced versions of kastane in the port cities in the Sinhalese littoral would possibly have reflected other ethnic or demographic variation in degree in their interpretations, and accordingly been mounted with these trade or issue blades .

I hope to hear the views of others toward these thoughts as always, and look forward to continuing these discussions with these perspectives in mind and their plausibility.

Salaams Jim, I was delving amongst the Portuguese/Sri Lankan VOC and other archives ..please see... http://books.google.com.om/books?id=m8_4bc7xEMgC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=Choliyans&source=bl&ots=bPg08EYk5b&sig=s-9AErCyxy_LvoMluX7phULQjr0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2kf-UpKKFJHjrAejx4HQBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Choliyans&f=false which delivers a fabulous description entitled Ceylon and the Portuguese, 1505-1658 By Paulus Edward Pieris ~

...where I found a report relating to Sri Lanka 1520AD .. on what I can only describe as a sort of Sri Lankan territorial army set up where land owners provided military groups in time of need to the rulers... One such page presents the description of a sword carried by the commanders of these small sub units as being small with lion headed hilts;

Since these were for fighting against the invaders...( in 1520 this was the Portuguese...) this document provides evidence that the leaders of these small militias were called Arachchi and had superior officers over them called Mudaliyars.. proving not only that the Mudaliyars leadership were early Sri Lankan invention not working for the Portuguese but against them...(On the home team so to speak !) and that there were Sri Lankans Arachchi in 1520 armed with Kastane!! whose blades were indeed made in Sri Lanka and not imported!!

That suggests that the Kastane was not a Portuguese invention at all... but may still of course have been designed around an earlier imported style perhaps via Hormuz where the Moors often traded.

(The emphasis on the weapon design other than a possible rough framework hinted at as maybe influence from a European derivative would illustrate the deeply historical and religious nature of its development and is an area that I would later like to place some detail.)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[fernando]

Modeliar is a surname derived from the honorary title Mudali, a rank that was brought by the Tamil to Ceylon during their diaspora.

According to:

(Sebastião Dalgado - Glossario Luso Asiatico).
MODELIAR, mudeliar ( more correct but less used). Chief, native Captain; honorary title. From the tamil mudaliyãr, honorific plural of mudali, “ chief “.
The term was used in early times in the Meridional India and in Melaca, but subsisting presently in Ceylon. Their ceremony dress is very rich and exuberant, partly native partly Portuguese, of XVI century nobility

(Francisco de Andrada – Chronicles of King Dom João III – 1613)
He has put to torment some modeliars, who are Captains of war people.

(Antonio Bocarro Década XIII page 495 - 1635)
They had some encounters with the enemy in Matalé, where they cut 35 heads and took some araches and modiliares, who are the head men among them.

(João Ribeiro – Fatalidade Historica Ceilão – chapter V -1685)
And consulting eachother the person that should be elected, they settled that it should be an Apuame of the Emperor and by him well considered, due to being a man of gifts among them, discreet and great friend of ours and who had become a Christian, being then called Dom João; after all, precisely the convenient for such business. And giving him the title of Modeliar, who among us exercizes the rank of Field Master, in a few days arrived at Candia...

(Friar Fernão de Queiroz,- Conquest of Ceylon -1687
The Dissauas respond to the Adelantados of Spain and Fronteyros of Portugal; the Modeliares to the Fiel Masters; the Araches to the Company Captains.

(Reginald Heber, Narrative of a journey – 1825)
The Moodeliers or native magistrates, head men as they are generally called, wear a strange mixture of Portuguese and native dress, but handsome, from the gold with which it is covered.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ To address the situation regarding Development Decoration and Symbolism I have broken the sword down into;
1. Blade.
2. Quillons.
3. Rain Guard.
4. Cross Guard.
5. Handguard.
6. Pommel.
7. Scabbard and sash.


In dealing with the Blade...(the other 6; I will address in no particular order later)

BLADE.
My previous post outlines at ~http://books.google.com.om/books?id...oliyans&f=false which delivers a fabulous description entitled Ceylon and the Portuguese, 1505-1658 By Paulus Edward Pieris. Where native blades are outlined.

~ The fact appears that these blades were indeed Native. Thus, a follow on to that would entail examining the blade manufacturing situation in Sri Lanka which we know was extensive and specialised earlier and that they had the technology used to harness wind and fire producing very high temperatures required for good quality steel including wootz. Blade manufacturing is extensively noted regionally and touched upon regarding Sri Lanka at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=502 by Dr. Ann Feuerbach.

There is a splendid article on Sri Lankan very early manufacture as long ago as 3rd millenium BC...see http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/06/science/ancient-smelter-used-wind-to-make-high-grade-steel.html although the process seems to have faded in the 11th C it would seem likely that some production would have prevailed...

See Also http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v379/n6560/abs/379060a0.html

In the Sri Lankan Royal Court Workshops there were artesans expert in blade making ...see http://www.craftrevival.org/Extrali...PageCode=P00014 and at http://www.craftrevival.org/CraftArtDetails.asp?CountryCode=Sri%20Lanka&CraftCode=003531 where not only is there a description of the various smiths including black smiths and brass artesans but many of the decorative styles used...

It is thus considered plausible that the blades were being made in Sri Lanka prior to the 1505 arrival of the Portuguese invaders.

In attempting to reverse engineer the blades to see where European blades may seem to suggest a likeness and number of variants may be possible though it may only be down to prefererred size for a race of people with a slightly shorter build...(It may be plausible that the Moors of Sri Lanka brought a sword design with quillons etc from Hormuz much earlier and that became copied and adorned)...Were these in fact simply long daggers or were they swords? The former is suggested and coupled with the obvious fact that they were also Badges of Office... A man wearing one would be immediately recognisable as at least a Mudalyar...even in the early 1500s and likely before.

In a note as to "Development" it can be seen that through the three invader periods blades may have changed from curved to straight(occasionally) and with a varied style of blade/point; sharpened on both sides near the tip.. and that the Dutch imported blades and other items with the VOC mark; some struck in Amsterdam with an additional A whilst others in Batavia ... Modern day Jacarta. The Portuguese do not seem to have provided nor struck Kastane blades with blademarks. Neither did the English with the EIC mark.. but did on firearms and bayonets... and other items.

In respect of "Symbolism"/ "Decoration" on blade form there are some with the Piha-Kaetta treatment in that some lavish overspill appears spilling onto the throat seemingly at various stages in the weapons development (on some but not all examples viewed) though as yet not attributed except perhaps in the general trend of a form of floral or peacock tail design.. thus locked into the religious / mythical story of symbolic lore. Not surprising since exquisite Piha-Kaetta daggers were made in the same or related Royal Workshops departments as Kastane according to the reference tittled "craft revival" above..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

As previously discussed and noted by Ibrahiim, the high quality steel from the monsoon powered furnaces smelted in Ceylon and exported widely was well known into ancient times. It would be hard to fathom there not being superb swordsmiths there were produce the kinds of blades required for edged weapons including the kasthane. I am under the impression these would have been primarily in the Kandyan Royal workshops.

As also noted and in accord with Deraniyagala, the early kasthane blades must have been inspired by early Moorish sabres and probably produced there. Clearly the port cities on the Sinhalese littoral controlled first by Portuguese then Dutch and ultimately British would have provided trade or acquisition blades for local hiltings in those locations.

In my view the Portuguese blades, well known in many of their colonial spheres, especially in India , were typically of rapier and heavier arming swords and not suitable of course for these small sabres. I am unclear on whatever cutlasses or the like they may have used however.

By the time the Dutch VOC blades begin appearing in the 18th century, it would appear other trade blades may have already been coming in via trade networks and perhaps Solingen produced. Initially I thought the VOC blades may have been intended for import, but their occurrence on numbers of regulation type military hilts suggests otherwise. Though these may have been for remounts on regulation swords as required, many may have been traded to local merchants and artisans. Also as previously suggested, perhaps VOC individuals may have had local hilts put on their issued blades .

In the concurrent thread on VOC blades we have had magnificent support from so many members here who have remarkable knowledge of these regions, and giving us amazing perspective on this complex trade context.

Fernando, excellent perspective on the mudeliars! Thank you!
It seems the more of this data I read, the more I realize how little real understanding I have had of it all. Its great to have these kind of well explained details at hand.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All,

The quillons of the Kastane seem not to be actual functional defensive mechanisms in that they are too small to allow a finger to be inserted for extra purchase in the strike nor do they allow for the trapping of an incoming sliding blade in the usual manner of other quilloned swords. There is hardly a gap left to enable this action indeed the blade at the very throat is delberately less broad making that action impossible.,, and so that the quillons finials are closer to the blade; No gap no trap. See photo below.
(The situation of the long rainguard may pose an interesting disarming function but will be discussed later on isolating that feature.)

On reflection it appears that the device we call quillons is actually from a much earlier period than the earliest quillons in western weapons ;The Vajra protrusions seen on Buddhist ceremonial axes. Pictures below.

The finials are of the minor Deity style (of various possible names) but generally in the Naga or serpentine head type. They are extremely ornate but have no apparent practical function... except ornamentally or as a possible weight or balance factor.. though that is somewhat thin (excuse pun ) since some Kastane don't have quillons.

Comments welcome...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Jim McDougall]

I think that it is well established that the kasthane in the regularly seen embellished form is pretty much a parade type arm worn as a badge of rank or office. As discussed, the elements seen in the hilt are vestigial features from earlier hilts in which the quillon and guard system had intended purposes for combative use. These were primarily the basic features of the hilts which developed in Italy in later fully developed rapier forms, and later found their way into nimcha style hilts . Variations of these same hilt arrangements are known throughout Europe as well as through the Arab trade world.

The various creatures represented on the elements of the hilt have symbolic and some apotropaic purpose of course. It is important to recognize these weapons and these symbolic features in that they serve more votive purpose than any actual combative intent.

The Tibetan axes as well of course as the phurbu daggers are entirely spiritual weapons with no worldly combative value . In India many swords are considered 'temple' swords, such as the unusual flamboyant blade Nayar examples. While these are in some degree regarded as being based on actual combat weapons of earlier times, in actuality the sometimes dramatic features are intended in more spiritually embellished sense than for an actual purpose.

The downward triangular protrusion on the kasthane would be more associated with langets which are essentially for scabbarding the weapon, but also provides useful area for additional embellishment and decoration.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I think that it is well established that the kasthane in the regularly seen embellished form is pretty much a parade type arm worn as a badge of rank or office. As discussed, the elements seen in the hilt are vestigial features from earlier hilts in which the quillon and guard system had intended purposes for combative use. These were primarily the basic features of the hilts which developed in Italy in later fully developed rapier forms, and later found their way into nimcha style hilts . Variations of these same hilt arrangements are known throughout Europe as well as through the Arab trade world.

The various creatures represented on the elements of the hilt have symbolic and some apotropaic purpose of course. It is important to recognize these weapons and these symbolic features in that they serve more votive purpose than any actual combative intent.

The Tibetan axes as well of course as the phurbu daggers are entirely spiritual weapons with no worldly combative value . In India many swords are considered 'temple' swords, such as the unusual flamboyant blade Nayar examples. While these are in some degree regarded as being based on actual combat weapons of earlier times, in actuality the sometimes dramatic features are intended in more spiritually embellished sense than for an actual purpose.

The downward triangular protrusion on the kasthane would be more associated with langets which are essentially for scabbarding the weapon, but also provides useful area for additional embellishment and decoration.


Salaams Jim, Whilst I agree upon the apotropaic nature of such embelishment from the talismanic and majic protection viewpoint and the votive purpose of the Kastane, I was in fact surprised to see that it was also carried into war / battle situations by the Arachchi and probably the Mudaliyars but in the latter more likely in the form of a badge of office...which later transmitted to a full-on badge of rank and status icon... throughout the Portuguese, Dutch and English periods.

Rain Guard.
Taking on the Rainguard; It appears as a peculiar and extended triangular protrusion. Could this have been utilized instead of the quillons for trapping an oponents sword?.. and as a rainguard and locking mechanism into the scabbard ~ clearly its main function...Interestingly it is usually decorated with a foliate or peacock tail feather stylistic decoration associated with several Deities(Makara and other) but also occasionally thereupon sits a funny looking face which is the half humanoid monster "Kirtimukha" on the Kastane at my last posting. Otherwise often carved and painted typically above ancient architectural temple doors.

From Wikipedia; Quote"The word mukha in Sanskrit refers to the face while kīrti means "fame, glory". Kirtimukha has its origin in a legend from the Skanda Purana when Jalandhara, an all-devouring monster created from Shiva, third eye willingly ate his body starting by its tail as per Lord Shiva's order, who pleased with the result gave it the name face of glory. Some authors have compared the Kirtimukha myth with the Greek myth of Ouroboros.

The Kirtimukha is often used as a decorative motif surmounting the pinnacle of a temple or the image of a deity, especially in South Indian architecture. This face is sometimes assimilated to, or confused with, another sculptural element, the lion face (Simhamukha). However, in order to be a Kirtimukha it has to be engaged in swallowing, for the Kirtimukha is the figure of the "all consuming" This monstrous face with bulging eyes sits also as an embellishment over the lintel of the gate to the inner sanctum in many Hindu temples signifying the reabsorption that marks the entry into the temple. Mostly it is only a face, although in some places its arms are portrayed as well".Unquote.

Is what is being portrayed the spilling of minor Deity form via Makara, Nagas and Kirtimukha(swallowing) etc culminating with overflowing and exuberant, lavish, decorative, mythical detail over the quillons and rainguard onto the blade at the throat and onto the scabbard? Thus it is hardly surprising that such a weapon is heralded and so important in the history of Sri Lanka...perhaps underlining its home grown, home produced nature?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

It seems that the kasthane, or its prototypes, was at one time a battle sword long before it became a symbolic badge of rank or office. It would seem that less lavishly decorated examples may have existed contemporarily which were used as combat weapons, much as was typically the case with military officers using fighting rather than dress swords
A sword used by King Rajasinghe III at the battle of Gannowruwa in 1638 (now held at Dodanvela Devale) had a hilt with beast pommel and simple upturned knuckleguard with single downturned quillon, no sideguard or langet.
The sword of Bhuvanakabuhu I of Yapuhuva of 13th c. (r.1272-1284)?
was apparently with a lionhead but no further details yet found.

I think it may be helpful to add some of the nomenclature pertaining to the hilt features of the kasthane:
A : Gediya, pommel
B: Mitta or hilt often known as 'sinha manu mitta' (=lion faced hilt)
C: Ath vasma or ath hade= knuckleguard
D: Vari sarkuva-quillons also known as serependiya mana as they
are generally formed of serependiya heads.
E: Alluva....side plates
F: Kadu patha , isa -blade
G: Peeli -grooves along the blade
H: Agissa-edge
I: Thuda-point

Source: Deraniyagala (1942, p.113)

It would appear as is often the case that the battle sword was of loosely the same form however understandably considerably more austere. In Deraniyagala it is noted that "...the development of the ceremonial sword of rank soon unfitted it for fighting purposes as the elaborate crest of the lion headed hit comes into contact with the heel of the users hand or wrist, while it is also significant that swords so ornamented generally appear to be too small for war, unlike the larger ones which have no such crests. The latter swords also possess as many as four quillons" (op.cit. p.113) .

While the projection on the guard extending as a langet (termed alluva or side plate) takes a more vestigial presence in the elaborate kasthane of rank, it serves well as the palate for symbolically placed devices.

Turning to the discussion of the kirtimukha in this location on the hilts of some kasthane, Robert Elgood has observed regarding such instances "...in view of the decisive concern with protection against the spirit world that characterizes Hinduism, the kirtimukha is the perfect device to place upon a weapon for prophylactic reasons; but reflecting the duality of all aspects of Hinduism it contains within it the reverse facility of ferocious aggression" (Elgood, 2004, p.134). The author also discusses the placement of kirtimukha or makara at the base of the blade on many sacrificial weapons to protect the user from spiritual forces unleashed by violent use of the blade

These kinds of symbolism may seem more likely to be placed on actual combat weapons, or as noted on sacrificial weapons, however it is important to remember that in the same sense of 'spiritual combat' with which ritual and ceremonial weapons are used, the weapon worn as a badge of rank may have similar properties. It may be considered that the individual of rank or office is signified as having authority and power in which they might require similar apotropaic protection from consequences or results of necessary actions. Naturally this is my own speculation as I confess less than adequate understanding of these matters.

Returning to these kirtimukha and makara heads (Elgood, p.134) the author notes that the use of this feature at the base of the blade "..appears in the kris in SE Asia where a mask to ward off evil is often carved at the base of the handle above the mendek. The probability is that this is a very ancient practice, because the makara head occupies the same place on the phur-pa and other Tibetan edged weapons and because the design has not changed since the time of the Buddha we may point to the likelihood of it being a feature of the Indian vajra".

As has been noted by Ibrahiim, the presence of these kinds of symbols, devices and representations are of course very much in line with the architecture of temples and many religious monuments and iconography.
In these respects, the kasthane and its profound iconography has become an important reflection of the many facets of the diverse heritage of Sri Lanka, and I hope that here we will continue gaining better understanding of their history.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It seems that the kasthane, or its prototypes, was at one time a battle sword long before it became a symbolic badge of rank or office. It would seem that less lavishly decorated examples may have existed contemporarily which were used as combat weapons, much as was typically the case with military officers using fighting rather than dress swords
A sword used by King Rajasinghe III at the battle of Gannowruwa in 1638 (now held at Dodanvela Devale) had a hilt with beast pommel and simple upturned knuckleguard with single downturned quillon, no sideguard or langet.
The sword of Bhuvanakabuhu I of Yapuhuva of 13th c. (r.1272-1284)?
was apparently with a lionhead but no further details yet found.

I think it may be helpful to add some of the nomenclature pertaining to the hilt features of the kasthane:
A : Gediya, pommel
B: Mitta or hilt often known as 'sinha manu mitta' (=lion faced hilt)
C: Ath vasma or ath hade= knuckleguard
D: Vari sarkuva-quillons also known as serependiya mana as they
are generally formed of serependiya heads.
E: Alluva....side plates
F: Kadu patha , isa -blade
G: Peeli -grooves along the blade
H: Agissa-edge
I: Thuda-point

Source: Deraniyagala (1942, p.113)

It would appear as is often the case that the battle sword was of loosely the same form however understandably considerably more austere. In Deraniyagala it is noted that "...the development of the ceremonial sword of rank soon unfitted it for fighting purposes as the elaborate crest of the lion headed hit comes into contact with the heel of the users hand or wrist, while it is also significant that swords so ornamented generally appear to be too small for war, unlike the larger ones which have no such crests. The latter swords also possess as many as four quillons" (op.cit. p.113) .

While the projection on the guard extending as a langet (termed alluva or side plate) takes a more vestigial presence in the elaborate kasthane of rank, it serves well as the palate for symbolically placed devices.

Turning to the discussion of the kirtimukha in this location on the hilts of some kasthane, Robert Elgood has observed regarding such instances "...in view of the decisive concern with protection against the spirit world that characterizes Hinduism, the kirtimukha is the perfect device to place upon a weapon for prophylactic reasons; but reflecting the duality of all aspects of Hinduism it contains within it the reverse facility of ferocious aggression" (Elgood, 2004, p.134). The author also discusses the placement of kirtimukha or makara at the base of the blade on many sacrificial weapons to protect the user from spiritual forces unleashed by violent use of the blade

These kinds of symbolism may seem more likely to be placed on actual combat weapons, or as noted on sacrificial weapons, however it is important to remember that in the same sense of 'spiritual combat' with which ritual and ceremonial weapons are used, the weapon worn as a badge of rank may have similar properties. It may be considered that the individual of rank or office is signified as having authority and power in which they might require similar apotropaic protection from consequences or results of necessary actions. Naturally this is my own speculation as I confess less than adequate understanding of these matters.

Returning to these kirtimukha and makara heads (Elgood, p.134) the author notes that the use of this feature at the base of the blade "..appears in the kris in SE Asia where a mask to ward off evil is often carved at the base of the handle above the mendek. The probability is that this is a very ancient practice, because the makara head occupies the same place on the phur-pa and other Tibetan edged weapons and because the design has not changed since the time of the Buddha we may point to the likelihood of it being a feature of the Indian vajra".

As has been noted by Ibrahiim, the presence of these kinds of symbols, devices and representations are of course very much in line with the architecture of temples and many religious monuments and iconography.
In these respects, the kasthane and its profound iconography has become an important reflection of the many facets of the diverse heritage of Sri Lanka, and I hope that here we will continue gaining better understanding of their history.


Salaams Jim, Great rendition, excellent research and important detail in support... I must say I had no idea the separate parts were so called ..and this and the general overall picture indicates and underlines a solemn foundation in Sri Lankan history and beliefs.

To reinforce that general thesis I place an ancient Sri Lankan Gods group in support of the theory of home grown / home produced Kastane...though without prejudicing the potential influences of European, Moors of Sri Lanka or Indian influence partly or wholly...

Naturally I am focused upon the short sword below with the exceptionally long rain-guard and the short blade which I perceive is of Kastane blade proportions and on a hilt with several similar constructions. I take this as evidence of a much earlier short sword style which must be taken into account when deciding on origin of species...thus predating any European influence.

Regarding the Deities since I am close to being in mid stream discussing these~...Whilst conclusions are probably going to be difficult or vague at best... I think we are close to some definition as to type and form however as always caution is advised ... or putting it another way from http://amazinglanka.com/wp/makara-torana/ I quote the authors final comment on drawing any sort of conclusion upon the different understanding of Deities (in this case The Makara) but the rule applies to the many varieties~

Quote"It could be noted that no two sketches have any close resemblance to each other so that it would be evident that each one of these artists acted on his own conception of the Makara".Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Maurice]

Some of the aspects of the well known kastane which have been brought to discussion have been
1. Just how old is the zoomorphically featured hilt, and what creatures are represented on its basic forms. While most references typically list the pommel as having a lionhead , which seems to correspond to the name of the people on this island, as well as the island itself (sinha=lion), Sinhala and Sinhalese....there are apparently some variations of the hilt.

Hi Jim,

This is way out of my field, but looking for something relevant in the other VOC blades thread, I found two very interesting kastanes.
Most of you probably know of them, but in case not I will add the pictures.

They were captured with a piha kaetta and a canon in 1765 by the Dutch, at the conquest of the Kandy's king palace.

PS. I've also added an image of the canon and the piha kaetta.

[David]

Regarding the Deities since I am close to being in mid stream discussing these~…Whilst conclusions are probably going to be difficult or vague at best... I think we are close to some definition as to type and form however as always caution is advised ... or putting it another way from http://amazinglanka.com/wp/makara-torana/ I quote the authors final comment on drawing any sort of conclusion upon the different understanding of Deities (in this case The Makara) but the rule applies to the many varieties~

Quote"It could be noted that no two sketches have any close resemblance to each other so that it would be evident that each one of these artists acted on his own conception of the Makara".Unquote.
Perhaps just a matter of semantics, but it should be understood that the makara, while known to be a vehicle for certain deities is not, in fact, a diety itself.

[napoleon]

these are wonderfull,many thanks, i think the piha kaetta is the best ive seen,rock crystal handle? were these the kings personal weapons?

[napoleon]

hello again jim,does anyone have a picture of the keicho mission kastane, and is it known where the popham example currently is? i still feel we need to see more examples,are these the only two with definate provenance?surely there must be more?

[napoleon]

ok again thanks maurice these then date to some time before 1765,and fair to say come from kandy royal workshops,so now if we take the main features of the style,and superimpose them on lesser examples we should be able broadly speaking to create a style attributable to candy workshops?royal and lesser?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

hello again jim,does anyone have a picture of the keicho mission kastane, and is it known where the popham example currently is? i still feel we need to see more examples,are these the only two with definate provenance?surely there must be more?


Salaams napoleon... Well you could try #13 and #14 for the Japanese mission conundrum and http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998 which also focussed on Hasekuras tour as well as the Popham Armour and is full of Kastane examples; none in my opinion which can be overlaid on others to determine provenance.. since it appears that individual artistic impression based on mythical beliefs is responsible for the variation.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All...

The reason why there is an apparent gap in the detail regarding Pre Portuguese and post Portuguese kastane making in Sri Lanka was because ....

according to http://thakshana.nsf.ac.lk/pdf/VIDURAWA/VIDU_19_1/VIDU%2019_1_30.pdf

Quote"In ancient times the caste system was mainly occupational based. As a result technology was preserved by being handed down from generation to generation.The caste system was developed to maintain the socio economic systems of the day.The social system changed with the advent of foreign rule and as a resulot the traditional technological know how was lost under colonialism.

Another reason for the decline was the cheap import of iron and steel implements imported from Europe and the inability of the indiginous iron producers to adopt new advances in technology".Unquote.

In real terms this would not have started to take effect much before 1550 during Portuguese partial control, though, once the Dutch, driven by the VOC, which fed on trade (and indicated by VOC stamped kastane blades for example) and the EIC of the English (though they did not apparently stamp blades of Kastane) until the modern era it seems iron/steel production would have been, at best, only scant. The break then in indiginous iron/steel production probably occured in the mid to late 1500s though some local iron/steel may have been produced in the Kandian Kingdom thereafter but dwindled further under English rule as they seized the entire country.

In conclusion I place this as possible evidence to explain our misunderstanding and the gap in proceedings possibly tricking the reader into thinking the Kastane was introduced when in effect it has been a purebred Sri Lankan Icon from its early pre European period. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all.. We continue the Kastane Hilt analysis~

Quoting the relevant SriLankan names supplied by Jim at #40 viz;

Ath vasma or ath hade= knuckleguard.
Vari sarkuva-quillons also known as serependiya mana as they
are generally formed of serependiya heads.

~and assuming serependiya means also the heads on what we regard as the cross guard finials and mirrored on the knuckleguard.~

Serependiya are so closely associated with Makara that physically they are almost indistinguishable from them except that they appear as smaller finials in this case involved pretty well all over the hilt. They are commonly regarded as being associated as having been spewed out by the Makara and themselves issue foliage from their jaws. Occasionally they may be described as Naga (snake heads) Dragons, Eagle Heads, etc etc though in the parlance of mythology it would be impossible to tie down with pin point accuracy and since all deities of this nature are morphable entities why should they be?

The point about Deity or their form is that they are lavishly applied to this weapon offering both protection with associated monsters breathing fire, foliage or other deities and by dormant entities like the humano/crocodile on the handguard as well as the Kuriimukhta on the rainguard which rather than spewing evil destructive beings out... gobbles up danger...(in a reverse, almost defensive posture but in support of the main theme)... The whole item steeped in protective Buddhist-Hindu ancient talismanic elements.


Such then are the religio/socio traditional and historical implications so far illustrated on this Iconic sword that it defies gravity (always a contentious occupation when dealing with ethnographic weapons :) !) that any other group than Buddhist- Hindu could have had any input into its design ...or at least in its decorative construct..perhaps a further indicator of a purely home made / home grown weapon.

Shown Below ~The Kastane hilt illustrating the humano/crocodile face half way down the knuckleguard framed by emissions of fire/the protective swish of a peacock like tail.. from two accompanying Serendipiyya/ Nagas.(is a picture showing the odd humanoid face which is a deity often associated with Makara (though not always). Picture from Forum see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998&page=2&pp=30 #56.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~

The Kastane; Lion /Makara Hilt.

It is not possible to draw a conclusion from the item seen at the hilt as to its Lion like or Makara like attributes. In fact some would say that it makes no difference what it is…and though it would be enlightening to know for sure; certainty is not a word that exists in the murky world of myth and legend. Personally I am happy with the “stylistic zoomorphic nature” of this Iconic hilt but always ready to consider your views.

The main hilt character… or should I say characters since the mythical description defies any singular pin point reasoning… and why should it? After all the myth is perpetrated by its variability, change of shape, chameleon like variability… It is legend, myth, religious meaning and …essentially how you as a believer in the ancient faiths/religious constructs of Buddhism and Hinduism see it. What’s more it is a physical hand carving made by an artisan who may have observed the creation in any of its 5 different life stages…plus the obvious inclination by artists to throw in their own interpretation. It may be noted that unlike the tradition of blade making the art of hand carving in wood, horn and Ivory contained no break in being handed down thus the tradition goes back more than 1000 years.

Put another way by http://www.amazinglanka.com/wp/makara-torana/
Quote” The central theme of the story is the glorification of Makara as the symbol of the Kurukula races. It is a composite animal, a concept of early cultures, a symbol of creative power, a symbol of “Sakti”. “It has the head of a crocodile, the horns of a goat, the body of an antelope or deer, a curved tail like that of a snake with the head of a fish and feet like those of a panther or a dog, with two horns on the forehead, its sides and bloated belly covered with leopard like spots, it is like nothing on earth.” Raghavan further states “The Makara embodies in its combination the fundamental symbolism of Traditional Psychology. It is symbolic of the Five Elements. In so far as it belongs to the Element Earth, it is like a creeping snake. In so far as it belongs to the Element Water, it is like a fish. In so far as it belongs to the Element Fire, it is panther like. In so far as it belongs to the Element Air, it is like a deer or a mountain goat. Extending this to the four elements of manifestation, the nature of the Makara is of a composite dragon”. Unquote.

Readers may believe one or the other.. some may suppose that one is more dominant a style on some swords than others or that the association between other deities are associated with the Makara but not the Lion or that the importance of a Lion over rides all else in Sri Lankan tradition so it must be a Lion. In the minds of some it looks like a lion so it must be one (a rather unsatisfactory view based on the above)

That then is a conundrum that may never be fully explained. There are, however, perhaps bigger fish to fry here… not least the burning question of European design transfer or home grown only?…Sri Lankan Purebred or a combination effort?

It is a conclusion I am working on but I await your input… Comments welcome.

Oh Forum… ? What do you suggest?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All... However I forgot to add something ... The Nimcha.

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11281&highlight=Charles+Buttin and in particular #9. With the main early Sri Lankan traders being Moors and the tantalising similarities as pointed to by the late Anthony North between Nimcha and Kastane members perhaps need to view the broader picture. The more ornate Nimcha hilts look even more remarkably like the Kastane....

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams ... and... a most interesting link from library on comparisons on the Kastane and Nimcha guards ... at http://blade.japet.com/NIMCHA/N-protection.htm

At this point the Genie bottle seems to have its cork stuck however it is a perfect occasion to pause for a while to view the broad problems of consequences of trade and influence on The Kastane before the advent of European ships into the region.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[VANDOO]

" The word singa is derived from the Sanskrit singa, "lion". The Batak term of singa has a predominantly magical, rather than zoological, so singa does not symbolize a lion. Instead, the singa represents the Nāga or Boru Saniang Naga, the primeval water serpent from the Hindu-Buddhist mythology. It is not fully understood why the name singa is attributed to this figure.[2][3][4] "

THE ABOVE QUOTE IS FROM WIKI. FOUND UNDER SINGA (MYTHOLOGY) THIS WOULD HELP EXPLAIN THE SINGAPORE HALF LION, HALF FISH AS WELL AS THE POMMEL DECORATION ON THE KASTANCE. SO PERHAPS THE LION LIKE ONES ARE SINGA AND THERE MAY BE A FEW MAKARA AS WELL BUT ON MOST EXAMPLES I HAVE SEEN THE LION OR SINGA IS THE MORE COMMON. THE SINGA IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT IN BATACK CULTURE BUT HAS MORE OF A HUMAN FACE. PERHAPS MAKARA AND SINGA SPEAK OF THE SAME CREATURE IN MYTHOLOGY

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

" The word singa is derived from the Sanskrit singa, "lion". The Batak term of singa has a predominantly magical, rather than zoological, so singa does not symbolize a lion. Instead, the singa represents the Nāga or Boru Saniang Naga, the primeval water serpent from the Hindu-Buddhist mythology. It is not fully understood why the name singa is attributed to this figure.[2][3][4] "

THE ABOVE QUOTE IS FROM WIKI. FOUND UNDER SINGA (MYTHOLOGY) THIS WOULD HELP EXPLAIN THE SINGAPORE HALF LION, HALF FISH AS WELL AS THE POMMEL DECORATION ON THE KASTANCE. SO PERHAPS THE LION LIKE ONES ARE SINGA AND THERE MAY BE A FEW MAKARA AS WELL BUT ON MOST EXAMPLES I HAVE SEEN THE LION OR SINGA IS THE MORE COMMON. THE SINGA IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT IN BATACK CULTURE BUT HAS MORE OF A HUMAN FACE. PERHAPS MAKARA AND SINGA SPEAK OF THE SAME CREATURE IN MYTHOLOGY

Salaams VANDOO ~ Of the many tides of influence sweeping across the Kastane scene; religion, myth and superstition rate highly ..not least shrouded in time and the duality of Buddhist and Hindu influence but also shaken by the 3 invaders which have created further fog and a great deal of disruption..not least in the after development e.g. In European dogheads with pure Sri Lankan influence going the other way...Then the pan Indian Ocean regional effect possibly centred upon Jakarata geographically and as the obvious trading hub through which the huge Hindu-Buddhist influence is traditionally applied. The Javanese and other sister regions where Zoomorphic/Mythical hilts is observed would indicate some inter-fusion or influence and adds to the mystique of the weapon being unraveled.

I have viewed the discussion from many points of the compass and am generally of the opinion that the decorative influence is home grown whilst the basic form may well be derived from other styles irrespective of the fighting nature of those styles. I think the obvious link is in the Moors of Sri Lankan tie-up with trade... Hormuz, Sohar, Red Sea ports and inter regionally...potentially sucking in early European and South East Asian forms already discussed.

I have mentioned the tantalizing Nimcha effect and the obvious Indian influences and the reduction in Iron and Steel gap in activity caused by the invaders particularly the Dutch.

I think we are closer to a general overview of where we see the Kastane and armed with a vastly improved library of detail, at some future point, an even clearer picture may be forthcoming...As to whether the shape triggers in the mind of the beholder .. A Lion or a serpent/ Makara is probably not so important given the mythology (I simply accept that since it defies logic by definition) Once the prefix "stylistic" is added it may be irrelevant ?

Meanwhile thank you for your posts...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All... I would suggest that a number of lead in articles and illustrations be added at about this point to create a foundation of support ideas for any sort of semi conclusions and mid research results so far...

I have seen some of the advertising for the brilliant work by Robert Hales and have taken one of those pages to illustrate 3 beautiful related examples ... The Indian Connection perhaps or part of it? The descriptions are the authors view and may not reflect the broader concept of "stylistic" as opposed to "actual"...from the mythical viewpoint ...but it is the artwork placed here that is important. :shrug:

[napoleon]

saalams ibrahiim,hello jim,yes i fully accept regional and artistic variation,but my point is where weapons have a point of origin,you then have provenance as with the weapons from candy royal palace,artists do tend to be recognisable by their overall style,so i think that if you were to compare high end examples,you could identify one royal workshop, it is a begining i think but in order to do so need pictures of high quality swords,so anyone lucky enough to own such a piece could we see them please :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

saalams ibrahiim,hello jim,yes i fully accept regional and artistic variation,but my point is where weapons have a point of origin,you then have provenance as with the weapons from candy royal palace,artists do tend to be recognisable by their overall style,so i think that if you were to compare high end examples,you could identify one royal workshop, it is a begining i think but in order to do so need pictures of high quality swords,so anyone lucky enough to own such a piece could we see them please :)

Salaams Napoleon ~ We dont have a point of origin...That is the point. Moreover if we knew what artesans were working in which workshops and with what techniques and styles around the Pre Portuguese entry in 1505 we would be very nicely placed to engineer a full and proveable answer.. We have none of these... thus, we are insofar as these observations you note almost completely in the dark... Shining a light into those dark corners and unearthing what small details we can may lead us to a clearer image of how, what, where, when, why and who ?... regarding the mysterious Kastane.

For a substantial report on Royal Workshops please see http://www.craftrevival.org/Extralinks.asp?PageCode=P00014

Regards.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[napoleon]

saalams ibrahiim,thank you for the link,i wasnt offering a point of origin but a point from which to start,that is something of known origin such as the swords and piha kaetta from kandy royal palace ,what can definatley be said is that these do come from a known point in time and a known place,it may not be pre portugese ,but my belief is that if there are more swords such as these then perhaps a broad frame work could be established in terms of dating,and probably regional variation,getting back to the point of origin start from what is known and try to work backwards and forwards regards napoleon

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

saalams ibrahiim,thank you for the link,i wasnt offering a point of origin but a point from which to start,that is something of known origin such as the swords and piha kaetta from kandy royal palace ,what can definatley be said is that these do come from a known point in time and a known place,it may not be pre portugese ,but my belief is that if there are more swords such as these then perhaps a broad frame work could be established in terms of dating,and probably regional variation,getting back to the point of origin start from what is known and try to work backwards and forwards regards napoleon


Salaams Napoleon... Can you tell me from which point in time / known place the Kastane comes? :)

What I can say is that we know a lot more now than we did a year ago, however, we may never know for sure about the full intricacies of this weapon...thus we may have to move forward using generalities "maybe and possibly" since there are so many imponderables.

Regional variation is always something we are looking for and close relationships appear in Javanese, Tibettan and Indian weapons ...but you may also have to look at the effects on the early system caused by the 3 invader countries and how that has thrown the link to their past traditions for example in steel making. Impact on design may have come from European styles and that is where the problem really difuses widely...with influence caused by possible early pre 1505AD(ie Pre Portuguese period) weapon imports from Red Sea, Arabian Sea and Gulf ports by the wide ranging sea merchants.. The Sri Lankan Moors.

It could be argued that we have created more questions than we have solved, moreover, the ball of string has only just begun to unravel... Who knows what other knots we may encounter on the way? :shrug:

There appears to be a close tie-up design-wise in the Piha Khaeta and its close proximity inside the Royal Workshops organisation. Shape and form appear similar and design swirls and decorative features, not least the spill over onto the blade in lavish stylistic decoration are interesting as well as the Zoomorhic hilt that so much resembles the Kastane monster deity though appears to have birdlike feathers and proportions in some examples, though not all.. See http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000498.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Napoleon,

What I would point out here is that the purpose of this topic in this thread is to discover and discuss more on the development of the kasthane as a recognized indigenous form of sword in Sri Lanka, and possibilities for its origins and the symbolism seen in its decoration.
Much of what we are discussing are examples and records of potential clues in these aspects, so actually Napoleon, what you are suggesting is pretty much what we have been doing and in point of fact we have been working on for years :) It is interesting to look through the search here to see the discussions over years and how far we have come though (my own research goes back only about 10 years).

Interesting observation concerning the identification of 'high end' weapons by stylistic association of certain artisans, and that factor does often come into play in identification of certain weapons in many cases overall . I would note that it is not a universally possible standard however, and in the case of the Royal Workshops in Kandy, it seems the artisans were collectively following the directives of those in power. With this circumstance it would seem that they were following guidelines in their work and that individual license would not be likely. It seems one reference I recall noted this was apparent in that these artisans did not sign their work in the Kandyan shops.

The issue of regional variation has almost typically been recognized as a problem in classification of ethnographic weapons overall as diffusion of forms through trade, warfare, colonialization and nomadic circumstances are ever present factors challenging such specific identifications often attempted.
What has been proposed here in a number of instances is that perhaps regional variation may account for some of the notable differences in some examples of the kasthane. It seems clear that certain similarly formed sword hilts in other cultural regions reveal distinct associations.

As Ibrahiim has well noted, we may have revealed more questions than answers here, but it that is often the nature of research and what is important is that these are what may lead us to key clues in the larger scope of the study.

I do very much appreciate your interest and participation in this study and its indeed good to see we share common views in our efforts here.
I also agree that I look forward to seeing examples of other collectors here, and on that note I am most grateful to Ibrahiim for furnishing the outstanding illustrations and references to date here.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All Note to Library~ The Zoomorphic styles of India need to be brought into focus since that is the largest and closest neighbour to the old Sri Lankan situation and must have played an important part in design and style influence..and since the religious form was broadly quite similar. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16363

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[napoleon]

hello jim, salaams ibrahiim,firstly jim i fully appreciate that a great deal of work has gone into this subject over a great number of years,and more questions than answers is usual in any debate,here is one for you when does the knuckle guard appear?,pre or post portugese? ibrahiim the kastanes that are of a known point in time are one you yourself listed ,the sword of king raja singh 111,from the battle of gannoruwa 1638, and the marvelous pics offered by maurice of two swords piha kaetta and cannon captured from the palace at kandy by the dutch 1765,what can be said about these is that the construction of the first is not later than 1638 and in the second instance not later than 1765,so the point i am labouring over is that establishing chronology is possible, :) , i like the references to mainland india and its influence,and pictures of daggers still more food for thought , piha kaetta glad you brought these up as to my eyes earlier examples definatley seem more functional,another similarity with the kastane, and if any or all of this has been said before apologies,but it doesnt make it any less valid, :shrug: ,the purpose of debate is the advancement of the common cause,a question costs nothing,you can feel a bit of a fool for five minutes or spend the rest of your days wondering the answer (northern saying) :)

[napoleon]

salaams ibrahiim,thanks for the link to piha kaetta,the bird headed ones are most unusual,the one holding the ball,could this be an adaptation of the chinese dragon chasing the pearl of wisdom i wonder ,great link though regards napoleon :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

salaams ibrahiim,thanks for the link to piha kaetta,the bird headed ones are most unusual,the one holding the ball,could this be an adaptation of the chinese dragon chasing the pearl of wisdom i wonder ,great link though regards napoleon :)


Salaams Napoleon...The dragon chasing feiry pearl design was indeed transmitted to Persia from Chinese style and is seen there on various ceramic and other materials as a decorative feature, however, insofar as a link to a birdhead holding what appears to be an egg on an Indian hilt (and regarding a possible design link to Kastane)~ that is a quantum leap and for me a bridge too far.

The bottleneck we are trying to penetrate beyond is the 1505 point when first the Europeans set foot in Sri Lanka..

Were Kastane produced before that time (and for how long?) or was there some collusion with the Portuguese working with Royal Workshops? In other words did the Portuguese introduce a basic design from European sword style upon which The Sri Lankan craftsmen built the lavish design or was it entirely unrelated...and a home produced item ?...If so is there influence from European swords into the region by other means perhaps from the Sri Lankan Moors or overland up the silk road then South through India or via other sea ports and thus other points of the ethnographic compass including Buddhist/Hindu sources from Java, Tibet, China and what is, if any, the connection to Nimcha style?

Your previous post refers to 1638 but that cannot be an accurate start point ... Potentially if the sword was home grown the date could be vastly earlier ...and simply could not be established suddenly at that point... thus I illustrate potential earlier production based upon the religious designs shown and backed by early proven steel production, Royal Workshops with known artesan castes; ...specialist horn and wood carvers, bladesmiths, Gold and Silver craftsmen etc etc

Of course notes on the general subject are most welcome however you seem to be intent on laying down a "how to research structure" that is simply not relevant(I regret that neither can I see a tie up in the two dates your refer to except that they are plucked at random from this thread), however, any researched facts on the subject to hand will be well received. Research so far has included countless hours of grinding through documents and references both in text books and the massive load of detail at web. Whilst we are not anywhere near a complete understanding of this weapon quest... "The Kastane conundrum" ...is well advanced compared to a few years ago..and we are at the cutting edge in that regard.

Put another way Napoleon... If you can see a gap in the research please feel free to examine that ... produce the research and fill the missing void... as you say ...the ink is free and there is nothing wrong in asking the question...and far less wrong in adding detail.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting notes guys. I would like to clarify something first of all, that this discussion is not a debate, it is far more an investigative mission in the development and history of the kasthane in its distinct form as known.
We are reviewing known facts and establishing perspective and ideas with these and any pertinent evidence which is found to either support or dismiss the plausibility of them.
The objective of course is to establish a comprehensive understanding of how these distinct hilts developed, when, and more on the variant examples as well.

At this point, I personally do not believe that the zoomorphic hilt style developed from any European intervention, either Portuguese or others later. It is recognized however as I had mentioned in earlier posts that these hilts apparently influenced some European designs in degree as exotica appealing to mercantile interests and as cultural novelties.

Also, while of certain significance, the 1638 date with the Raja Singh III example would not establish a terminus ante quem for the hilt form, as we know that the Hasekura example predated that by at least two decades and was in Japan by 1622. The items acquired by the Dutch in 1765 by the same token do not establish a terminus post quem as these, while related in degree to design and style, do not signal the end of the kasthane as a form.

I think we have established somewhat notably that the guard system and quillons configuration does appear to have arrived in Ceylon most likely through the Moors, who in turn seem to have adopted this system from Italian swords. This influence, and associations between North Italy via trade contacts and North Africa at one extent west, and as far as Ceylon to the east, is noted by Anthony North (1975, op. cit.) and citing Charles Buttin (1933, op.cit). These hilts with this distinct guard pattern had been in Italy from the 15th century, and were actually the basis for developing the fully developed rapier style guards later in varying degree.

While we have not determined as yet, irrefutable evidence of the earliest known kasthane hilt in its more recognizable form with the zoomorphic figures, as well as the distinctly formed quillon system, we do believe that the knuckleguard was of course part of those Moorish influences quite early.

The Portuguese arrival in Ceylon in 1505 is quite contemporary with the North Italian hilts of 15th century we are describing as having probable influence on the vestigially designed Sinhalese hilts, however there is no reason to think that their arrival brought the hilt form. This would seem apparent as the diffusion of the hilt guard form extended to regions of Arab trade which did not have Portuguese influence, North Africa for example.

While there is a great deal of focus on the Royal Workshops in Kandy for the production of significant examples of the kasthane, I would like to note that the variant forms and apparently other contemporary production seems to have been present elsewhere in Ceylon as well. I think case in point here would be the numerous examples which were mounted with the VOC blades, primarily in the 18th century (in concurrent discussion on another thread) .
Obviously no kasthane produced in the Royal Workshops would be mounted with these blades, and the question remains, were these so mounted kasthane produced with these blades as novelty for VOC forces, or to supply auxiliary allied Sinhalese forces there?

As shown, it is about questions and answers, not debate. At this point any type of chronology or typology is being developed from these, and remains pending as we continue. Ideally, it would be wonderful to have these kinds of neatly placed facts and tables set in place with the arms we study, but these ideals are goals we can only strive for in hopes of some success. What is important is that we do so together, and help each other learn along the way.

[VANDOO]

PERHAPS WE HAVE JUMPED TOO FAR FROM THE ORIGINS OF THESE WEAPONS. WE DISCUSS MOORS, PORTUGESE, DUTCH, CHINESE, ECT AND PERHAPS THESE DID HAVE SOME LATER INFLUENCES.
THE ISLAND OF CEYLON HAD AN ADVANCED CIVILIZATION LONG BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF THESE OUTSIDERS AND AS A WARRIOR SOCIETY HAD WELL DEVELOPED WEAPONS AND MARTIAL ARTS. THEY WOULD HAVE MADE THEIR OWN WEAPONS BUT THE STRONGEST EARLY INFLUENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM SOUTHERN INDIA BOTH IN RELIGION, CIVILIZATION AND WAR. WE NEED SOME ONE WELL VERSED IN THAT AREA AND ITS EARLY CULTURE TO SEE WHAT WAS THERE AND WHAT COULD HAVE EVOLVED INTO THE DESIGN OF THE KASTHANE AND THE PHIA.
PICTURES OF TWO EXAMPLES OF INDIAN WEAPONS THOUGH NOT AS OLD AS THOSE WE NEED TO SEE EXAMPLES OF.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

While there is a great deal of focus on the Royal Workshops in Kandy for the production of significant examples of the kasthane, I would like to note that the variant forms and apparently other contemporary production seems to have been present elsewhere in Ceylon as well. I think case in point here would be the numerous examples which were mounted with the VOC blades, primarily in the 18th century (in concurrent discussion on another thread) .
Obviously no kasthane produced in the Royal Workshops would be mounted with these blades, and the question remains, were these so mounted kasthane produced with these blades as novelty for VOC forces, or to supply auxiliary allied Sinhalese forces there?

Salaams Jim...Thank you for your great post. That is a hugely significant question. Though it is quite late in the Kastane story it certainly falls into the categories of development and style thus I wonder where these Kastane were turned out? Was it "The Kastane" only made in Royal Workshops...or in some form of VOC controlled environment?..Could they have been made by artesans in Jacarta? Or was there collusion at the time with Royal Workshops who made all the essential parts and then the blades were fitted finally by...by who?? :) Certainly they were made for the EIC formation and at many levels as rank badges of office and similarly in the Dutch period..Probably for the latter half of the Portuguese too... but then the light is dimmer as we try to examine the important early Portuguese period.. and beyond.

My own view is that the Kastane shape arrived earlier as you indicate with the great sea traders The Sri Lankan Moors and the influence of form happened spontaniously with that specific form at its heart..."The Outside Influence Theory."

The other plausible possibility and my alternative view, is that this form happened without foreign influence and within the confines of Sri Lankan sword technology, religious and mythical influence and design ... The "Home Grown" Theory.

The trouble is that we simply do not have an early enough example to substantiate either theory.

Naturally it can't be both... or can it?
A sword form that perhaps had virtually died out was resurected as an in-vogue badge of office and court sword...by foreign invader groups.. why not? In fact that is one way of describing the VOC/ EIC effect... and shown to be the case earlier with the Popham Armour...It is known that the blade production capacity dropped considerably in Sri Lanka caused by cheap imported blades by the invaders...

Fascinating indeed is the Hasekura episode, however, a good defence lawyer would have a heyday tearing apart the inconclusive evidence since the Hasekura Kastane was not officially presented(thus documentation is thin) and may well have been cross hilted on a Chinese or Storta blade. The passing on and custodianship in Japan of that item are somewhat clouded. Being obtained, purchased or recieved as a gift in the Philipines does not help the case..but it is nonetheless very interesting not least because of the blade marks which may or may not be Hasekuras.

Local influence is clear and similar designs appear even on another home grown variety .. The Piha Khaeta which sports similar Hilt and lavish top of blade spill over design and similar design patterning as the Kastane ... hardly surprising since they came from virtually the same Royal Workshop section as Kastane... and may have even been made by the same artesans.

Regional influence through Buddhist and Hindu fused history plays a huge part in the puzzle with a complete quillon style that predates European quillons and may in fact not be quillons at all... but simply a design feature..taken from Tibettan Vajra finials. At least they appear not to function as Quillons. (hardly a requirement anyway as a court sword)

The other guards are so adorned with decorative religious mythical clutter it is almost impossible to sort out a base form. Though is that necessary? I think not... We don't try to strip down the Piha Khaeta why do it with the Kastane. I tend to view the two items through the same prism. The potential as absolutely ancient traditional and highly ornate weapons is there...

So what about the main hilt feature? This is straight from the traditions... ancient religious and mythical (Whether Lion or Monster from deep Ocean or Jungle it matters not.) The regional similarities between it and Indian and Javanese hilts is remarkable. What is absolute, however, is that this is Sri Lankan.

Clearly the Workshops Royale were tuned to create such masterpieces with craftsmen in the caste system expert in each segment of the product ...and flowing back through the early 16th C and beyond to arguably the time the great migration South from India occured in about the 3rd century BC.

Turning the coin the other way shows the potential of the Moors to have brought in a European weapon in pre European times, from Hormuz, Bazra or the Red sea or in fact for a weapon to have gone overland via the silk road Persia and India onward to Sri Lanka via any sea port on the Indian Ocean..and thence to the attention of Royal Workshops for adornment..but I have to say I think it perhaps the weaker of the two possibilities. At the same time compelling suggestions are present see #21 which must be seriously considered pointing at European potential influence.

There is also the possibility the Moors brought with them an Arabian design as the base shape.. The Algerian Flysa dagger springs to mind... and in the same paragraph (because I cant fathom where to put the detail) is the conundrum, if there is one, of the influence of or onto The Nimcha.

Development shows how the Kastane went on to the designs of Dog Hilts onto English and Continental swords..rather late in proceedings and in another curious direction ... onto belly dancing swords !!

~ and the rest as they say is history ~

or put another way... come on Forum its your turn !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

PERHAPS WE HAVE JUMPED TOO FAR FROM THE ORIGINS OF THESE WEAPONS. WE DISCUSS MOORS, PORTUGESE, DUTCH, CHINESE, ECT AND PERHAPS THESE DID HAVE SOME LATER INFLUENCES.
THE ISLAND OF CEYLON HAD AN ADVANCED CIVILIZATION LONG BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF THESE OUTSIDERS AND AS A WARRIOR SOCIETY HAD WELL DEVELOPED WEAPONS AND MARTIAL ARTS. THEY WOULD HAVE MADE THEIR OWN WEAPONS BUT THE STRONGEST EARLY INFLUENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM SOUTHERN INDIA BOTH IN RELIGION, CIVILIZATION AND WAR. WE NEED SOME ONE WELL VERSED IN THAT AREA AND ITS EARLY CULTURE TO SEE WHAT WAS THERE AND WHAT COULD HAVE EVOLVED INTO THE DESIGN OF THE KASTHANE AND THE PHIA.
PICTURES OF TWO EXAMPLES OF INDIAN WEAPONS THOUGH NOT AS OLD AS THOSE WE NEED TO SEE EXAMPLES OF.


Salaams Vandoo... Great pictures thank you... I was just looking at a deity headed Indian sword stick and your post popped up...! It is amazing what influences were around and Indian being bang on the doorstep must have had a lot of bearing on design... in Sri Lankan style. It is great to have such examples placed on thread as such good quality pictures bring the thread alive...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All; Note to library. :shrug:

No study of ethnographic arms and armour can be completed without some reference to the historical mixture of peoples in a country under scrutiny.. This is magnified many times over in a country like Sri Lanka and to that end and to give a balanced picture as to the possibility of the Moors(The Mercantile traders of Sri Lanka) having transmitted certain weapon technology and style I recommend a look at http://sailanmuslim.com/news/wp-content/uploads/the-origins-and-affinities-of-the-sri-lankan-moors.pdf which is an astonishing account of the Sri Lankan Moors.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

PERHAPS WE HAVE JUMPED TOO FAR FROM THE ORIGINS OF THESE WEAPONS. WE DISCUSS MOORS, PORTUGESE, DUTCH, CHINESE, ECT AND PERHAPS THESE DID HAVE SOME LATER INFLUENCES.
THE ISLAND OF CEYLON HAD AN ADVANCED CIVILIZATION LONG BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF THESE OUTSIDERS AND AS A WARRIOR SOCIETY HAD WELL DEVELOPED WEAPONS AND MARTIAL ARTS. THEY WOULD HAVE MADE THEIR OWN WEAPONS BUT THE STRONGEST EARLY INFLUENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM SOUTHERN INDIA BOTH IN RELIGION, CIVILIZATION AND WAR. WE NEED SOME ONE WELL VERSED IN THAT AREA AND ITS EARLY CULTURE TO SEE WHAT WAS THERE AND WHAT COULD HAVE EVOLVED INTO THE DESIGN OF THE KASTHANE AND THE PHIA.
PICTURES OF TWO EXAMPLES OF INDIAN WEAPONS THOUGH NOT AS OLD AS THOSE WE NEED TO SEE EXAMPLES OF.


Salaams Vandoo~ There are many examples of the Indian Zoomorphic Mythical variety ... I bumped into this one ... A simple sword stick on a Yaali hilt (pot metal) without scabbard.. in Buraimi Souk... I think it safe to assume the Buddhist-Hindu linkage in decorative design upon the Kastane as being entirely home grown within the regional influence of other countries close by with similar religious aspects, though, the indicators seem also to point toward a possible European sword base design perhaps introduced by the Mercantile activities of the Sri Lankan Moors.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Great discussion, and interesting points guys!
I think it is important to remember that much of the iconography seen on the hilts of the kasthane are indeed those connected to Southern India culturally and religiously in large degree. These stylized zoomorphics and certain other features may be connected to elements of weapons from the Deccan, Madras (Chennai) and of course Tamil Nadu. There was as I understand strong Tamil presence which seems in the north of Ceylon predominantly so certainly influences would have diffused accordingly.

The weapons shown by Vandoo are a Hindu style dagger of chilanum/bichwa/khanjharli blade type with the zoomorphic pommel hilt and langet similar to other daggers of Deccan to Tanjore.
The sword with downturned quillons is of course of the form known in Afghanistan as the paluoar (to collectors though not necessarily locally), but which derives from Deccani influences. These carry Persian influence, most notably the quillons in creature heads (often termed dragon heads) and from 16th-17th c.. These sabres while typically associated with Afghanistan are actually a form of tulwar with strong Deccani associations, and the Afghan preference for the form its northernmost Indian context. Until the 20th century, Afghanistan was part of India (Northwest Frontier).

The use of zoomorphic hilts depicting mythical creatures important in religious iconography does not need to have relied on European suggestion as the adaption of the religious imbuement of arms seems to have well in place with that found in temples. While weapons in early Ceylon seem to correspond to those of early India in general form, the application of zoomorphic images of mythical creatures would seem to have occurred independent of European influence.

The adaption (vestigially) of quillon systems similar to those found on North Italian swords from 15th century onward seems likely to have filtered into Moorish settlements in Ceylon prior to the Portuguese arrival, though in timeline seems quite close as that was 1505 and these hilts from Italy are only slightly earlier. The similarities are discussed as previously noted in North, 1975 and Buttin, 1933).
As far as I am aware, there were no Portuguese sword forms using zoomorphic hilts, nor of course were Arabic or Moorish forms either in these times.

In references I have seen it noted that the influence of the exotic mythical themes on the developed kasthane style hits, and probably the piha kaetta, had the profound fascination and intrigue of the merchants and colonials of European countries . It would seem that these were exported 'from' Ceylon via these mediums rather than brought in.
By the same token, it would seem that the application of iconographic images onto weapons was likely a development from influence from the subcontinent and that the themes seen on the kasthane hilt decoratively likely developed there accordingly.
The hilt structurally probably absorbed influence from the Arabic and North Italian forms and was integrated with the decorative embellishment as noted.

It is my impression that likely early forms of Sinhalese weapons may have had some sort of mythical creature embellishment however that to me remains unclear. The adaption of the more developed guard seems to have been adopted around the same time generally as the curved sabre blades of course through Moorish influence (as noted by Deraniyagala, 1942).

That is my personal perspective at this point based on my own earlier research as well as the outstanding material that has been shared in this thread and the others connected .

[VANDOO]

FOR INFLUENCES ON A CULTURE ONE NEED ONLY LOOK AT ITS RULERS. WHO WERE THEIR ALLIES, WHO WERE THEIR ENEMYS AND WHO DID THEY TRADE WITH. THE EARLIEST INFLUENCES ARE USUALLY BASED ON ONE RULER EITHER FRIEND OR ENEMY HAVING SOMETHING THE OTHER DOES NOT HAVE AND THE SECOND RULER TRYING TO MATCH THAT AND TOP IT. FOR INSTANCE IF RULER #1 HAS A ELEPHANT TO RIDE RULER #2 MUST GET A BIGGER AND BETTER ONE AND PERHAPS SEVERAL MORE. THE ARMS RACE IS NOT SOMETHING NEW :rolleyes:
THE EARLY CONTACTS WERE NO DOUBT WITH SOUTHERN INDIA BECAUSE OF PROXIMITY AND THE CULTURES DID HAVE A LOT IN COMMON AND LIKELY HAD CULTURAL CONNECTIONS FAR IN THE PAST. SO IF THE SWORDS OF OTHERS ARE MORE DECORATIVE OR LARGER ONE MUST MATCH AND EXCEED THAT OF THE COMPETICIAN. WAR, SHOWING OFF AND FASHON ALL ACCELERATE INOVATION AND CHANGES IN A SOCIETY. SO I VOTE FOR SOUTHERN INDIA AS THE STRONGEST INFLUENCE.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Kastane story may continue ad infinitum to develop and based on the excellent material unearthed by Forum so far.. For me, however, the culminating note is unveiled by Wikepedia the famous on line encyclopedia which states ~

The Kastane.

Quote"The Kastane is a short traditional ceremonial/decorative single-edged sword of Sri Lanka. Kastanes often have elaborate hilts, especially shaped and described as a rich mythical style inherited from Buddhism and Hinduism and in blending a variety of Deities including Makara, Lions, Kirtimukha, Serapendiya, Nagas, crocodile/human monsters and other dragon and gargoyle like effigies. Some are emitted onto the hand guard and cross guard with Vajra style pseudo-quillons whose finials are also decorated by minor monsters and a rain-guard decorated by the Makara or Serapendiya Peacock tail or fish scales which occasionally flows over and onto the blade at the throat. The Scabbard is occasionally seen with a miniature beasts head at the Chape also emitting a Deity or cloud pattern. Sometimes a small human face decorates the hand-guard which is a half human/half crocodile monster.

The main aspect of Kastane Hilts shows the central Deity accompanied by supporting minor Deity forms and the peculiar guard arrangement incorporating Buddhist style Vajra quillons, cross and hand guards and decorated handguard with further embelishment often spilling over onto the blades throat. In approaching a description authors should observe each Kastane separately since no two are identical and the main Hilt theme thus could be either of the variant Deities Lion or Makara/ Serapendiya etc. and since artist and artisan may well have applied a broad ranging interpretation of the form.

In 1807 it is recorded that the sword was an indicator of Official Rank so that the more senior persons would wear a more lavishly adorned weapon etc...and that this was also the intent though perhaps to a lesser degree in the Portuguese and Dutch periods.

They may first have arisen in the Kandyan Kingdom (15/16th century ?), perhaps inspired by European swords brought by the Portuguese period in Ceylon or in fact imported by the great Sri Lankan sea traders ... The Moors....The basic form being lavishly adorned so much so that it is almost impossible to designate a base pattern though North Italian or Venetian seems plausible. The hilt resembles South Indian weapon designs. The blade comes in a variety of sizes and it can be either straight or slightly curved. They are usually single-edged and most frequently are made in Europe(Solingen). None of the blades bear either Portuguese marks or English East India Company trademarks (EIC), however, there are many examples of Dutch influence with blades marked VOC. The single part of the sword that shares the similar characteristics is the hilt. It has two or four quillons. In the 4-quillon version the smaller two quillons are swept downwards toward the tip of the blade. In fact it is arguable if these are Quillons since they are mirror images of the Vajra projections on the Buddhist religious axe and perhaps serve no defensive purpose.

The pommel and the quillons are very beautiful as each of them ends with a carved Deity's head. The hilts are often encrusted with gemstones as in the eyes of Ruby stones and inlaid with silver or made entirely of silver or gold. The scabbards of the Kastane swords are made of wood or rhino horn and are decorated with brass, silver and/or gold. It is a testament to the skill of the traditional craftsmen operating in Sri Lankas ancient Royal Sword Workshops".Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[napoleon]

salaams ibrahiim,firstly im not intent on telling people how they should research,not at all ,what i was trying to establish,was known provenanced items,if enough examples can be gathered,might begin to show a broad frame work,starting for the sake of arguement with known portugese examples of the period,already been said i know,but does anyone have any? :D also yes point taken jim regarding debate/discusion stand corrected thank you,ibrahiim you refer to the examples plucked at random :) not at all just the only two examples i could find that stood a chance, speaking demonstrably,but as jim pointed out could be earlier(although not later) :) so could still be used in a broader framework, ibrahiim i do see a gap in the study its called typological chronology :D ,however bear in mind i am a relative novice in the subject of these beautifull swords,but one thought i had was the gemstones used,certain cultures favour different gems,a possible pointer?although i still feel more examples are needed,and in order for any of us to learn more more images,another thought has anyone explored the archeological record of sri lanka for swords,battle site finds? regards for now

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Napoleon,
Nicely stated, and I would like to note that my intention was not as much correction as clarification, and understand your notes toward research were more to your placement in coming into the discussion. While you have noted you are relatively new to the research on these weapons, I commend you for your enthusiastic participation and would point out that here we are all students on arms study in varying levels and degrees, but all working toward the same goals, learning together.

You are asking well placed questions, some which have indeed been somewhat travelled in other discussions, and some which have not. Your note on gems is interesting, though I am not certain that this complex aspect of decoration and often talismanic properties would be pertinent to our objectives here on the kasthane.

Good question on the archaeological aspects, and indeed there are numerous studies on Sri Lankan sites as well as the iconographic sources.
Deraniyagala , 1942, p.111) notes, "...the earliest swords appear to have been straight, leaf shaped and double edged, resembling bronze age weapons. Their shape suggests they were mainly offensive. A subsequent development was the wavy blade, and ultimately the curved scimitar type which increased enormously the power of a slashing cut, but sacrificed efficiency in thrusting or parrying (footnote: the scimitar type is probably of Arab origin). "
It is further noted that the early swords depicted on the Tivunka Patimaghara (misnamed Demala Malia Sigiriya) at Polonnaruva are of the leaf pattern and that others from Sigiyira in the Columbo Museum and of the 5th century are single edged and long, straight and double edged. Other excavations of 12th century site at Polonnoruva revealed long straight single edged blades with obliquely truncate point.

It is noted that these are some of the types depicted on frescoes and paintings up to the 18th century "..when the curved, scimitar shape with the lions head comes into fashion".

These interesting entries indicate of course that the early swords of Sri Lanka over a very long time were functional and decoratively austere until relatively recent times. Clearly the 18th century date for the lion head hilts is not quite correct as we are already aware of earlier examples, however I believe the author is referring to the ceremonial sword of rank rather than likely earlier forms bearing some degree of traditional iconography.

Typological chronology is of course an ideal goal, but one which is particularly elusive in the study of most histories of ethnographic forms as reliably provenanced examples are rarely available. Even iconographic sources are sometimes unreliable as artists often tended to be anachronistic in their work as they depicted events of earlier times. As you engage further in this and other studies of these types of weapons it is interesting to see how these kinds of discussions do benefit comprehensive knowledge by compiling data . In these cases, seen throughout the archives here many impressive results have been accomplished.

While you may be a newcomer Napoleon, you ask great questions and follow the course, and its great to have you with us on the adventure! :)

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

salaams ibrahiim,firstly im not intent on telling people how they should research,not at all ,what i was trying to establish,was known provenanced items,if enough examples can be gathered,might begin to show a broad frame work,starting for the sake of arguement with known portugese examples of the period,already been said i know,but does anyone have any? :D also yes point taken jim regarding debate/discusion stand corrected thank you,ibrahiim you refer to the examples plucked at random :) not at all just the only two examples i could find that stood a chance, speaking demonstrably,but as jim pointed out could be earlier(although not later) :) so could still be used in a broader framework, ibrahiim i do see a gap in the study its called typological chronology :D ,however bear in mind i am a relative novice in the subject of these beautifull swords,but one thought i had was the gemstones used,certain cultures favour different gems,a possible pointer?although i still feel more examples are needed,and in order for any of us to learn more more images,another thought has anyone explored the archeological record of sri lanka for swords,battle site finds? regards for now

Salaams napoleon. As you rightly point out we have very little to go on... Early examples are few 'n far between and this is illustrated by the need to look at even the most extreme cases such as artwork on the Popham Armour (to my mind the only artwork showing the Kastane on European armour) and a vague but fascinating early weapon now in the Sendai Museum in Japan.

Where we can... I think broad logic is allowed e.g. an eye to the European influence and since it is a weapon just slightly removed from the Arabian sphere...a clue as to how it may have arrived in basic form with the Moors...and of course their Arabian and African (and other regional) contacts. Knowing a lot more about the Royal workshops and the religious structure and the way people lived in the early days allows some balanced supposition...Where these nebulous ideas are not carved in stone it can be interesting to see where these ideas lead...though, a good detective will only have these penciled in the margin until proof positive can be made.

I was pleased to see you wheel out the big guns: Typological Chronology but that depends on examinig the early items, simply not available... The subject of digs is interesting ... but as you may be aware there are certain sensitivities in this regard and anyway you will be aware of cultural problems where Buddhist/ Hindu countries are very much not obliged to excavate and for religious reasons etc...The archeological ministry in Tibet for example is a very small organism... in fact it doesn't exist! and though I am not saying archeology is non existant in Sri Lanka I make the point from the cultural understanding generally... and of course you will be aware of the delicate nature of digs not unrelated to recent internal strife in that country but which is politically ringfenced.

What you have outlined is in fact very true... that unless a researcher is in country how difficult it is (but not impossible) to unearth the facts. When we started we had so little to go on... Now the library contains masses of detail never before viewed.

I think the study of gemstones is an excellent idea for you to undertake regarding Kastane ... another which I disguarded was the detail contained in ancient poetry which could yeild results.

One other field that looked promising was ancient martial arts weapons but I was unable to get sufficient detail as persuing that back 500 years and beyond proved impossible .. We know that the national martial art system was made illegal by colonial English powers punishable by being shot in the knees..Permanently crippling the individuals...The martial arts weaponry pre Portuguese (Pre 1505) may well have contained Kastane but absolute proof would be needed. Naturally that would be more or less game set and match regarding the time frame but I couldn't get much further back than about 1800 in this regard.

The VOC system is being viewed very successfully in another thread effectively setting down a thorough compendium of details on the entire Dutch period ...

Overall I think the rolling result... (because it never stops)... is excellent, though, we should never expect to fully hit the check-mate button... Total understanding may never be complete but I mean why should it?...since this is such a non worldly item drenched in mythology, religions, sliced with foreign powers interference and tainted in not a little majic ... not least in it's name "Kastane"...


Thank you for your post...Typological Chronology ! Bring it on !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[David]

The Kastane story may continue ad infinitum to develop and based on the excellent material unearthed by Forum so far.. For me, however, the culminating note is unveiled by Wikepedia the famous on line encyclopedia which states ~

The Kastane.

Quote"The Kastane is a short traditional ceremonial/decorative single-edged sword of Sri Lanka. Kastanes often have elaborate hilts, especially shaped and described as a rich mythical style inherited from Buddhism and Hinduism and in blending a variety of Deities including Makara, Lions, Kirtimukha, Serapendiya, Nagas, crocodile/human monsters and other dragon and gargoyle like effigies. Some are emitted onto the hand guard and cross guard with Vajra style pseudo-quillons whose finials are also decorated by minor monsters and a rain-guard decorated by the Makara or Serapendiya Peacock tail or fish scales which occasionally flows over and onto the blade at the throat. The Scabbard is occasionally seen with a miniature beasts head at the Chape also emitting a Deity or cloud pattern. Sometimes a small human face decorates the hand-guard which is a half human/half crocodile monster.

The main aspect of Kastane Hilts shows the central Deity accompanied by supporting minor Deity forms and the peculiar guard arrangement incorporating Buddhist style Vajra quillons, cross and hand guards and decorated handguard with further embelishment often spilling over onto the blades throat. In approaching a description authors should observe each Kastane separately since no two are identical and the main Hilt theme thus could be either of the variant Deities Lion or Makara/ Serapendiya etc. and since artist and artisan may well have applied a broad ranging interpretation of the form.

In 1807 it is recorded that the sword was an indicator of Official Rank so that the more senior persons would wear a more lavishly adorned weapon etc...and that this was also the intent though perhaps to a lesser degree in the Portuguese and Dutch periods.

They may first have arisen in the Kandyan Kingdom (15/16th century ?), perhaps inspired by European swords brought by the Portuguese period in Ceylon or in fact imported by the great Sri Lankan sea traders ... The Moors....The basic form being lavishly adorned so much so that it is almost impossible to designate a base pattern though North Italian or Venetian seems plausible. The hilt resembles South Indian weapon designs. The blade comes in a variety of sizes and it can be either straight or slightly curved. They are usually single-edged and most frequently are made in Europe(Solingen). None of the blades bear either Portuguese marks or English East India Company trademarks (EIC), however, there are many examples of Dutch influence with blades marked VOC. The single part of the sword that shares the similar characteristics is the hilt. It has two or four quillons. In the 4-quillon version the smaller two quillons are swept downwards toward the tip of the blade. In fact it is arguable if these are Quillons since they are mirror images of the Vajra projections on the Buddhist religious axe and perhaps serve no defensive purpose.

The pommel and the quillons are very beautiful as each of them ends with a carved Deity's head. The hilts are often encrusted with gemstones as in the eyes of Ruby stones and inlaid with silver or made entirely of silver or gold. The scabbards of the Kastane swords are made of wood or rhino horn and are decorated with brass, silver and/or gold. It is a testament to the skill of the traditional craftsmen operating in Sri Lankas ancient Royal Sword Workshops".Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Forgive me for mentioning this Ibrahiim…but isn't this Wikipedia entry written by YOURSELF? If so how can it unveil to you a culminating note in your own research? :shrug:

[David]

What you have outlined is in fact very true... that unless a researcher is in country how difficult it is (but not impossible) to unearth the facts. When we started we had so little to go on... Now the library contains masses of detail never before viewed.
Interesting that you should say this Ibrahiim, because when we actually had a native Sri Lankan that was steeped in the culture and history of ancient Sri Lankan weaponry and actually had his feet on the ground in that country you did nothing but argue his very informative posts until he threw up his hands and left the conversation. Fortunately, the "Library" still contains those very informative posts. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Forgive me for mentioning this Ibrahiim…but isn't this Wikipedia entry written by YOURSELF? If so how can it unveil to you a culminating note in your own research? :shrug:


Salaams David... In fact, no, it is not all my work though of course I am a contributor and why should I not be..and you already know this so why are you questioning in such a way? Indeed you pointed to the fact a month or two ago... though I couldnt understand why your tone was unsupportive then and I am baffled by it now... Wikepedia is the world wide webs encyclopedia... not mine... I just contribute freely. I find it extremely useful and since it is continually updated ..very current and accurate. It does, in fact, do exactly as I have penned ~ do you not agree?

I add that since my involvement as a contributor on Forum to this subject that the Wikepedia entry has been considerably and accurately updated with the latest current information researched by me. It stands therefor as a pinnacle of finely tuned detail in parallel with the latest doctrine on the subject...

Surely you would be delighted with that..from the Forum viewpoint?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

Wikipedia is what it is. It is neither good or bad, accurate or incorrect. It is only as good as the information presented and the reference material used to back up that information. It is regulated by its users so an entity really has absolutely no academic integrity beyond its own bibliography, which isn't to say that there are not some very well researched and documented Wikipedia entries. The Kastane entry, i am afraid, is not one of them. It is hardly the "pinnacle of finely tuned detail" that you would make it out to be. This is not because the information is necessarily wrong, though so of it might be, but because the entry has no footnotes or academically reliable references to follow through on. All that are provided at the bottom of the page are a group of links to images on the Oriental Arms page and other sales sites, a youtube video of a kastane on the Antiques Roadshow (and i can assure you that these guys notoriously get their info on swords from these regions wrong) and an article on the use of the kastane as a belly dancing sword written by a guy who was banned from this site long ago. So my complaint here Ibrahiim is that it is rather self-serving for you to present the info on this page as being some kind of "unveiled culminating note" when it is mostly written by you without much academic backing. This has been a wonderful and no doubt useful exercise in speculation and conjecture so far. Don't get me wrong, i am not being sarcastic when i call it useful as i believe that speculation is a very useful tool in the process of discover, and we have certainly seen and read a lot of pertinent material in these many threads on the subject. But until we can nail some of our speculative thinking down to actual fact i don't think we have anything to congratulate ourselves over. ;)
By the way, since you are so keen on fine tuning your Wikipedia page on the subject, you might, as i previously suggested, want to reconsider the use of the term "Deity hilt". The lion, makara, serapendiya or whatever mythical beasts we wish to believe are represented on these swords are not, AFAIK, considered to be "deities" per se. Many Hindu deities do in fact incorporate various animal features in their depiction (Ganesha, Hanuman, etc.), but these mythical beasts are only associated with specific deities (i.e. a makara is often associated as the vehicle for the river goddess Ganga and the sea god Varuna) but are not seen as deities themselves.

[fernando]

...because when we actually had a native Sri Lankan that was steeped in the culture and history of ancient Sri Lankan weaponry and actually had his feet on the ground in that country you did nothing but argue his very informative posts until he threw up his hands and left the conversation. Fortunately, the "Library" still contains those very informative posts....Fortunately, the "Library" still contains those very informative posts. :)
... Which certainly have a value ratio far greater than countless perorations which, although containing some peripheral (but not intrinsic) info, make us ponder on their immense space occupied in the archives versus their juice, after squeezing them.
It is obvious that despite Jim’s industrious initiative to transfer this theme to a new thread under a multiple (triple) range of attributions, the nuclear point remains the same: the origin, date and outer influences in the Kastane. However it is not the hammering on the same nail head, time and time without count, that will bring light to the subject. No one forgets that certain approaches were repeated a zillion times … sometimes with the very same wording.
Resuming that, taking in consideration the recurrent (massacred) pre and post Portuguese ‘key’ to the matter ...
It can not be questioned that the Kastane was born in Ceylon … and not result of a ‘joint venture’.
The probabilities that it had western influences along time, namely Portuguese, it could only be in the hilt, namely the lower recurved quillons... the ricasso a giveaway.
The blade in itself would never be Portuguese, simply because they were not blade makers. Actually the Kastane blades seen out there are so varied that i have already seen one made in brass.
Assuming that Portuguese sword designs were common to other Peoples … Spanish, Venetians and so, we may view these probable influences, for the matter, as being Portuguese, because they were indeed the first to actually reside and mix cultures with the locals.
But obviously the admissible influence of Portuguese, for one, is a hypothesis that would be easily knocked down by evidential appearance of the missing link: example/s of Kastane prior to this period ... no matter how different or of how many different forms they timely were.
Based on this eternal fait divers and talking about (Portuguese) influences, i feel entitled to upload here a hybrid that i have pictured in one of my library books, which belongs in the collection of its author, titled HOMENS ESPADAS E TOMATES, by Rainer Daehnhardt, whom owns one of the largest collections of weapons and documentation covering, among other, the Portuguese discoveries period.

.

[Jim McDougall]

Fernando, thank you so much for adding this most pertinent example which reflects the kind of diffusion seen with these clearly Sinhalese influenced hilts, and most important showing the Portuguese perspective.
Thank you as well for adding your perspective on the 'origins of the kasthane dilemma', which seems of course to correspond pretty much with the views expressed already.

Actually the reason I started this thread was because of the outcry on the other thread concerning the emphasis on the kasthane in a thread whose title indicated Sinhalese swords, including the kasthane. There it was claimed that the thread was being derailed by emphasis on the kasthane, remarkable since it followed the topic in the title. Just the same, I thought a more deliberately titled thread would allow focused discussion on the kastane without such consternation.

Now we have a derailment toward the perils and worth of the Wikipedia online source! It seems to me that any source of material used in research is useful but with the caveat that the material must be considered along with corroborating material as well.
It seems that here the issue has become that the source material cited by Ibrahiim from Wikipedia is considered questionably because he has contributed to its content. I will say here that I often use Wikipedia to augment and add to data I use to write along with my own notes and other resources. In most cases it has proven quite reliable although in many cases politically charged material is somewhat questionable.

It should probably have been reiterated that he had added to the Wikipedia material he cited, but I honestly thought he had mentioned that before.

Whatever the case, I would like to see this thread return to the subject matter and forego this unnecessary point of contention.

Fernando, again, wonderful example!!!!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by David...The lion, makara, serapendiya or whatever mythical beasts we wish to believe are represented on these swords are not, AFAIK, considered to be "deities" per se. Many Hindu deities do in fact incorporate various animal features in their depiction (Ganesha, Hanuman, etc.), but these mythical beasts are only associated with specific deities (i.e. a makara is often associated as the vehicle for the river goddess Ganga and the sea god Varuna) but are not seen as deities themselves.[/QUOTE]


Salaams David. I believe that they are in fact Deities and that you have mixed them up with the religious Deities of India. The Buddhist/Hindu mixture in Sri Lanka is slightly different. The Kastane hilt is filled with Deities. One of the main Deities is the Makara not only associated with one aspect but across the whole spectrum ... On water spouts ...supporting doorways...associated with the Kurtimukta and minor humano crocodile form, On Jewellery, Door knockers, Weapon adornment, artwork, Gunpowder containers, tobacco pipes etc.

Where the main feature appears lion like ... it too has a mythical story behind it. The point about myth and legend coupled with the Kastane is not so much centred around whether XYZ is a Deity but whether these forms were introduced at an earlier stage than European intervention in the Indian Ocean...Naturally with so few early examples it should not try the brain cells over much to realise that certain logical appreciations are needed to ascertain what may have taken place...

Nobody is trying to slam-dunk the Kastane problem and I disagree entirely that anyone would have left the discussion because of some disagreement... Is that not the basis upon which Forum feeds... I disagree... I put in the evidence... Member X disagrees and counters with his/her proof... A consensus is then arrived at and discussed... or arrives in the vicinity of the plausible truth. Of course where people cant take the heat... they get out of the kitchen... Whereas that ought not to happen it is always sad... but anyway they can just as easily rejoin the discussion when they are ready..

Comments are always welcome provided they are constructive no?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It can not be questioned that the Kastane was born in Ceylon … and not result of a ‘joint venture’.
The probabilities that it had western influences along time, namely Portuguese, it could only be in the hilt, namely the lower recurved quillons... the ricasso a giveaway.
The blade in itself would never be Portuguese, simply because they were not blade makers. Actually the Kastane blades seen out there are so varied that i have already seen one made in brass.
Assuming that Portuguese sword designs were common to other Peoples … Spanish, Venetians and so, we may view these probable influences, for the matter, as being Portuguese, because they were indeed the first to actually reside and mix cultures with the locals.
But obviously the admissible influence of Portuguese, for one, is a hypothesis that would be easily knocked down by evidential appearance of the missing link: example/s of Kastane prior to this period ... no matter how different or of how many different forms they timely were.
Based on this eternal fait divers and talking about (Portuguese) influences, i feel entitled to upload here a hybrid that i have pictured in one of my library books, which belongs in the collection of its author, titled HOMENS ESPADAS E TOMATES, by Rainer Daehnhardt, whom owns one of the largest collections of weapons and documentation covering, among other, the Portuguese discoveries period.

.


Salaams Fernando, Thank you for your post which includes the fascinating picture from your library of the Kastane influenced sword. I assume this example to have been a back fed influence as the Portuguese were withdrawing from the Indian Ocean? It is an early example of a Kastane influenced hilt. Very interesting.

Whilst you state that the origin of the hilt cannot be questioned; that is certainly not how it was originally on this or any other thread.. and since the same sort of decoration appeared on gunpowder weapons of the combined workshops of Portuguese and Sri Lankan craftsmen I am amazed at your revelation... and since you supplied the artwork showing the similar decoration ..even more amazing. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998&page=3&pp=30 at #66 :)

Whilst the Portuguese were the first Europeans to "mix cultures" with the Sri Lankans they were not the first culture ... You omit the Moors..Not only were they hundreds of years before the Portuguese but they were the Mercantile Marine... of Sri Lanka. It is to them that the transition of basic blade form may be attributed. Personally I don't think the Quillons are solely attributable (many people do and that is accepted) but viewing the Vajra I see that as being perhaps the dominant influence.

To what period do you place the appearance of a brass blade?... It is known that cheap non Sri Lankan blades appeared in brass as belly dancer items often with a reversed hilt... in the 19th C.

You place Portugal very highly in the definitions concerning the Kastane yet only at post 80 have you entered your input, though, it is well recieved.... but by-the-way in terms of repetition was not your only other post here on the Mudaliers essentially repetition of a previous one ... by myself; see #2. What I mean is that in generating the discussion and in threads that are very long...understandably repetition happens...though they are not designed towards any individual but in bringing the hundreds of other interested members into focus and updated with the subject.

It was partly because of this that we have now this separate thread on Kastane. Hugely successful !!....leaving the older thread to be developed along the lines of other Sri Lankan weapons. The other support thread on VOC is of course another excellent main artery thread concerning Sri Lanka.

Those few members who were so vociferous in condemning the Kastanes virtually solo appearance on the old thread will no doubt be building up that thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998&page=10&pp=30, no? :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

I must say that I had decided to stay away from the thread; not due to being unable to stand argument as some might suggest-but as it no longer seems objective about the study that for me is one of profound personal interest. same things repeat over and over with minor contortions while (sadly) quickly forgetting all the information that has been Included in the previous thread where this discussion initiated. I did feel quite sad as among the noise there was also some very important material being shared and raised and I must say I did learn a lot being part of it.

The reason I am writing this note is to at least provide a re-cap of points that were presented in the other thread that seem to be getting forgotten and to at least try in some way to counter some of the mis-information that seem to be taking root within the thread. being from the country of origin of the Kasthana - It is sometimes difficult not to be amused by some of the things that continue being said (despite errors being pointed out). Many theories about Sinhala arts, crafts, culture and history portrayed seem alien and quite new to me having been a student of Sinhala Art history all my life. - it’s quite an eye opener how much mis-information; just starts as a wild guesses becomes realities and can take root through the internet. (may be it is my disadvantage to be from Sri Lanka - otherwise may be I would have enjoyed the fantasies more freely.)

As David already very correctly pointed out- In Sri Lanka neither Lion, Makara nor Serapendiya are ever considered deities or gods in any form; they are depicted as no more than mere decorative “BEAST” forms (though auspicious- like the lotus or conch-shell). They are used as Icons; Lion representing Sinhala race, Makara as a symbol of protection and regeneration. etc. etc.

The only goddess or deities represented on Kasthana seem to be images that may be Sri-Devi/Luxmi, or Patthini devi depicted sometimes on the outer side of the hand guard and/or on the langet. These on occasion may be only figures of “Nari-latha” or tree nymphs. It is a significant area of study to identify the mostly female deities present on a weapon instead of a warrior gods such as karthikeiya or Kali.

Forum still does not seem to recognize the sources I provided that in a Sri Lankan/ Sinhala historic context clearly establish the Kasthana Sword to mid 16th century. which at least in a local context is backed by examples that have good provenance and supported by strong literary evidence. There is solid local evidence to prove that the Kasthane sword in its proper form and name existed at least in mid 16th century if not earlier. . (please check earlier thread for reference) I do understand that the forum members are at a loss when it comes to reading original historic sources written in Sinhala. but the reality is that they do exist. the post 14th century era saw the emergence of a long series of books written as “Hatan Kavya” (war poems) which give significant details of battles and warriors and arms used.

If the sword (and the name Kasthana) was in existence in the early to mid 16th century and associated well with King Rajasinhe I. it is clear that the origin of the weapon clearly and significantly pre-date the Kandyan kingdom and its workshops; and would have its origin more in the Sithawaka and/or Kotte kingdoms- post the transfer of the capital to Kandy the workshops there would have continued production of the swords. but it would not have originated in “Kandyan workshops” which is a misnomer. The design trends associated with the early (more refined) form of Kasthana can be associated with art trends of even the Dambadeni or Gampola Kingdoms which predate even the Kotte Sithawaka era.

The Sinhala crafts and technology was influenced by more than the 3 European invaders and the moors, The country was visited 3 times by the Navy of Cheng ho (Zheng He) shortly before the arrival of the Portuguese; and there was prolific trade, diplomatic, religious and cultural ties to Thailand to Burma and most of East Asia and even up to China. Mainland India both Northern and Southern continued to be in strong contact throughout time. large Sinhala trade ships are documented sailing to Chinese ports and even to Roman courts more than a millennia before. the concept that the moors were the “mercantile marine” of the sinhales is in error though they did carry out trade in Sinhala ports during the 15th century and supported the Sinhales in some battles as the Portuguese was a direct threat to their trade. The Sinhales craftsmen were good at adapting foreign technology encountered often giving them a local twist. The location of the country at the southernmost tip of the Indian sub-continent necessitated any ships plying the coasts of South Asia would use it as a trade hub. The 14th century text “Kandauru siritha” list many types of foreign swords used by the kings army including swords listed as Pandi, Wadiga, Jaina, Malaya, Madura, Thelangu, Java, Vanga, Ayodhya swords. A total of 32 types of swords are listed including “Wak kadu” or curved swords which may have been the predecessor of the Kasthana type blade- which if true would date the type of blades significantly before the Portuguese encounter.

The craft based “cast” system was in existence in Sri Lanka till the end of the Kandyan Kingdom in 1815. The system was broken down only under the British rule.

The Early Kasthana was possibly designed with a lot of thought and reason for each of its components. The traditional systems carry rather firm disciplines in proportions and use of its elements. The texts like the “Vaijayantha-thanthra” are examples. which set guidelines for the length and breadth of blades and the types of decoration and iconographies to be followed. most of the sword lore and smiting techniques became extinct under the extreme repression of the British raj. The Brits took over the country using intrigue not the force of arms in which they repeatedly failed as long as the Sinhala crown lasted. so the Brits knew the need to suppress anything that was even connected to martial traditions in the Sinhales. Orders were given to shoot at anyone practicing “Angam” and all arms and armor related crafts perished in the post 1815 era.

Recently I was rather saddened to see a small “ola leaf” technical manual on ancient sword making being dismantled and sold piecemeal page by page to gullible tourists in an antique shop the South of the country purporting to be “Lord Buddha’s own handwriting”. But the bit that I saw remaining indicate firm guidelines set in construction of the blades.

Though I would not feel confident in identifying the inspiration for the Kasthana design- Based on the way a TRADITIONAL kasthana is constructed and put together I believe that the use of the quillons and the langet is used mainly to strengthen the base of the sword, provide a good seat on the scabbards and also to deflect a sliding cut away from the hand. not for the purpose of holding and locking enemy blades. The association of tibetan vajra with kasthana is purely artificial in a Sinhala context- as I pointed out before the Mahayana/Vajrayana buddhist traditions to which vajra symbolism belonged was extinct or only vestigially present in Sri Lanka the time in question. The predominant Theravada Buddhist traditions give no significance to it. the quillon shape is quite regular within the framework of Sinhala motifs without a need to associate it with the Vajra

Ibrahim I think your classification of Kasthana to include characters of all degenerate deviant sub-species counters the identification of proper kasthana swords- the true Kasthana carries a single edged blade that is curved, The quillons are always 4 and the primary animal heads on quillons, guard and hilt is 6 (or more- never less). There is a firm order and tradition of composition of animal head types and accessory figures and iconography on hilt and quillons. but I shall refrain on commenting further on this as I have given sufficient level of my comments on that topic elsewhere in the earlier thread but the issue within this forum stays stubbornly muddled.

Ibrahim I am not sure how these modern illustrations of Hindu gods become useful in the purpose of the thread. if needed look for period specific reference that may have more value here.

Napoleon- it is best to visit the earlier thread which carried some good illustrations of Kasthana, There are a modest amount of direct historic evidence available within a Sri Lankan archaeological/ historic records. If you would look at my posts I have included some references to heirloom swords still remaining with the original families they were gifted to by Kings which give good provenance as some still even carry gift deeds, flags and other items presented along with the kasthana to the chieftains who excelled in battle. I am also very interested in the typological chronology of the kasthana which seem quite clear path of evolution from the earliest (most refined) to late (of more valuable material but weak craftsmanship and design). a lot of modern poor quality replica’s also float around including brass bladed items. previously I made a possible reference to a source that could well stand as an earlier example of a Kasthana timeline based on the evolution of design elements.

I just hope the forum stay objective and selective in acceptance of the material provided- unless the thread may do more harm to the study of the Kasthana than good.

p.s. Ibrahim thank you for the private message to me. I was any way thinking of posting this.

Regards prasanna

[David]

I just hope the forum stay objective and selective in acceptance of the material provided- unless the thread may do more harm to the study of the Kasthana than good.
Thanks you so much for returning to this subject once more Prasanna to impart your insights.
Jim seems to think that i am trying to derail this discussion and that i have brought up "unnecessary point(s) of contention". Nothing could be further from the truth. I am simply trying to re-track the train and correct its course as there has been so much misdirection, half-truths and straight out incorrect info somehow portrayed as being correct knowledge reached by some imaginary "consensus" of the members participating here. To be clear, writing the most amount of words on a subject does not create a "consensus". Even if it did, a consensus of this group on any particular idea is useless if in fact it is historically incorrect.
Prasanna, i do hope you stick around this conversation just a little bit longer. I realize that it might feel like you are beating your head against a stone wall at times, but do understand that some of us value the direct cultural input you provide into these questions and are not swayed by the seeming endless flow white noise that attempts to obscure it.

[Jim McDougall]

Prasanna, thank you so much for rejoining us here!!! and especially for your outstanding and valuable summary of most important data and perspectives reflecting your command of Sri Lankan history as well as that of the weaponry including the kasthane. Your distinct advantage in this knowledge is of course that you not only are Sri Lankan, but have tenaciously studied the history which is your own ancestry and legacy, and I admire that very much.
I can well understand your previous reluctance to participate as certain errors and misperceptions occurred in degree in our discussions here and on other threads, as these can be frustrating of course for someone as well versed as you are in the history you have devoted a lifetime to. With that I would also note that I hope you will stay with us here, and ask for your patience as we look into learning more on the history of these fascinating swords.

David, I would like to note that while your intent may have been to clarify various aspects of the discussion at hand, it may have been more advantageous to address key talking points specifically and offering alternative views as you did with the term 'deity'. In spending quite some time going through a number of sources to learn more on this definition (as I admit to not clearly understanding it myself prior to this), I found that the term itself has remarkably wide scope. Primarily of course its use seems to refer to supernatural, immortal beings thought to be sacred, holy or even divine. In extremely subjective studies of things mythical, metaphysical and theosophical there are naturally profoundly wide views, so equally wide parlance in various context may be understandable.

The point is, rather than being objective in addressing the issue, the demeanor of your approach seemed dismissive with regard to Ibrahiims participation in the compilation of the Wikipedia entry noted. Obviously the presentation could have been better qualified in being cited, but still the accusatory comment was counterproductive and the subsequent dialogue directed to the values and issues with Wikipedia was in effect 'derailing' in my opinion. Aside from that I appreciate your concerns over the integrity of the discussions and always welcome objective and constructive participation focused on the subject matter at hand.

[David]

Jim, the definition of the word "deity" is pretty cut and dry, for any particular cultural application.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deity
The importance of understanding the difference between deities and mere mythical creatures and what purposes they serve in the culture at hand is of great importance if there is to be any understanding of the weapons under consideration here.
A discussion of the merits of Wikipedia entries is indeed pertinent as well. I also use Wikipedia quite often for quick references when seeking information, but am wary enough to take such info with a grain of salt. It is NOT a credible source for academic study, period. This isn't to say that it isn't useful. As i mentioned before, some entries are better researched with a multitude of references and footnotes. Others, like the kastane entry not so much. What i objected to in Ibrahiim's last posting of his wikipedia entry was that it was being presented as a "culminating note…unveiled by Wikepedia the famous on line encyclopedia" firstly, without full disclosure that it is indeed of his own hand and opinion (sorry, his previous admission to this is buried in a ten page thread that has long since fallen off the main page and does indeed need restating for full transparency) and it is full of errors and speculation. Ibrahiim responds to my questioning with the following:
"I add that since my involvement as a contributor on Forum to this subject that the Wikepedia entry has been considerably and accurately updated with the latest current information researched by me. It stands therefor as a pinnacle of finely tuned detail in parallel with the latest doctrine on the subject...
Surely you would be delighted with that..from the Forum viewpoint?"
No, Ibrahiim, i am not delighted from the "Forum viewpoint". What is written in the wiki article is not "a pinnacle of finely tuned detail in parallel with the latest doctrine on the subject…", it is merely your opinion and some of it is incorrect. It is not the culminated consensus point of view that has come as the fruit of these forum thread discussions on the subject so why should it please me from the Forum viewpoint?
Jim, we will probably, as usual, have to agree to disagree on these points, but i call it like i see it and will continue to do so. It is not an attempt to be dismissive or counterproductive, but rather to keep a sense of transparency and accountability in these threads and allow those with other opinions the room to speak them rather than be carried away by the avalanche of words that seem to dominate the discussion most of the time. If you continue to disregard the number of forum members who have been turned away from this discussion because of this you do so at your own peril of researching a complex subject with a minimum of forum input.

[fernando]

ආයුබෝවන් Prasanna

No one will doubt that this authentic treatise on the Kasthana is more than enlightening in the most varied points ... speaking by my humble self .
If i am not insisting too much on the same point, i would dare to ask you objectively whether outer influence in the Kasthana form is to be excluded. By placing the Kastana in the mid XVI century we may infer that it was born whilst the Portuguese stayed in the Island; the same Portuguese that a century later mentioned in chronicles various Sinhala weapons (Calachurro and all) but not the Kasthana. Maybe this is due to such sword not being a field weapon, its involvement in bellic narrations didn't occur. I didn't however give up searching this theme in Portuguese history of the period, as i find it hard to beleive that the Kasthana, or the equivalent term attributed by Portuguese, is not mentioned here or there.
Concerning quality of these swords, it is easy to understand that it degenerated within time, specialy attending to the fact that its adornment purposes didn't need their martial skills to prevail in use.
But knowing less than nothing about the subject, i fail to discern how modern examples with blades made of brass are. In page 57 of the book above mentioned, i face the picture of two Kasthanas; one in chiseled gold and silver and rubies in the beast eyes and another with a brass blade and the hilt (and scabbard?) made of turtle.
The pictures are in black and white and not of the best quality. But judging by the knowledge of the owner, i wouldn't imagine this brass example having been used just the other day in belly dance ... although for lack of knowledge i will not reject the idea.


.

[Rick]

As a long time member I feel I must comment:
Both Kastane threads, were they to be considered in corporeal form would,
IMO, be called morbidly obese .
I believe that the essence has become lost within the folds of 'fat' surrounding the subject under discussion; it becomes obvious that the subject here is, and will remain solely about the kastane .

Gentlemen, I think theis subject has been about laid to rest; I don't believe that I am the only member that feels this way .
I lack the necessary filter and patience to continue to swim in these waters . I expect so do many others of us here on the sidelines .

I also fear for our credibility .

[Jim McDougall]

I guess we have pretty well covered the term 'deity' at this point, and yes, that is yet another dictionary definition. However, as is often the case with words, they can often end up with varying interpretation in parlance with colloquial or contextual usage .
For example, one reference notes, "..all the gods have some animals and birds as their vahana or vehicle, and in the process of time these creatures have become a great object of Hindu veneration".("Sacred Hindu Symbols" Abhinav Publications , 2001). This reference goes on to note, "..another mythological animal DEITY is makara, the sea monster who is the vahana of the Vedic god Varuna". Another reference I came across passim, noted the makara as an elephant headed sea beast is considered to be a benevolent sea DEITY.
The three principal animal deities are described in another reference on Hindu mythology as Ganesha, Garuda, and Hanuman. While this would by implication seem to exclude the makara, it does seem that the term has rather wide latitude. In cases such as metaphysical, mythological and other philosophical and theosophical studies it would seem far less than 'cut and dry'.
One of the best references, in my opinion, for understanding matters of perception in the application of these kinds of mythical figures and decoration on many of these weapons is found in "Hindu Arms and Ritual" (Robert Elgood, 2004, p.130). Dr.Elgood notes, "...since the power of the gods is held to be infinitely greater than than that of man, it follows that their weapons are replete with the supernatural qualities of their owners.They are frequently captured or gifted, thereby transferring potency from one deity to another".
Further, "...lions are symbols of royalty and Vishnu, the Buddha and the ain saviours all sit on lion thrones (Simhasana) while the goddess Durga has a lion as her vehicle".

It would seem that in these views concerning deities that in some cases the lion is indeed representative of supremacy, and in varying circumstances that it may represent a 'vehicle' much as the makara. Since 'deities' are defined as supernatural beings, thought of as divine or sacred and that some are supreme while others are of different ranks...might this not suggest that the term deity could be perceived comprehensively to include these mythical creatures?

Obviously, though Sri Lanka may have different perceptions of these facets of Hindu mythology and the terminology used, these are my own views set forth here as I understand them. In other references I have seen, it is noted that in some faiths it is considered blasphemous to imagine or depict a deity as having a concrete form.
Perhaps this might account for the seemingly stylized interpretations of these mythical creatures and why those of us virtually in layman status find it so difficult to identify them, let alone agree on what to call them or how to term them.

These are the kinds of questions we hope to discover answers for, and to better understand these swords and their history. Since the term 'deity' has become deemed of importance at this point, then we should address it accordingly and return to the kasthane.

I will also point out that my 'industrious' venture here to allow unimpeded focus on the kasthane specifically I believe has been most useful, and that in many cases discourses of this volume often require reiteration....often readers don't read the previous post, let alone the considerable text of the thread. Case in point is Ibrahiims not mentioning his Wikipedia contribution which was 'buried' in previous text. Therefore in many cases it becomes necessary to reestablish material again, even if it seems repetitive for some readers.

[David]

We have a person from the culture we are discussing come on to say that these creatures are not "deities". Let it go Jim…

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

I must say Jim that despite all that you would read- in the ground context of Sri Lanka Makara or Lion is not considered as any god or deities. You must realize Sinhala context is not Hindu either and some of the mainland concepts do not properly apply here anyway.

Fernando I have always found your posts interesting and inspiring as it provided a counter/ more Portuguese oriented perspective to how I experience things down here. Your sources and material presented are just great. I think it is clear that the kasthane origin is Sinhala. but there are many un-answered questions remain and it is also clear that it did draw inspiration from many foreign sources as well. one of the questions that I am intrigued by is that the changeover of the Sinhala fighters from the dominance of double edged long swords of the previous era- that seem quite similar to the arms of the Portuguese roughly at the time of their arrival and shifting to the Kasthana. The Portuguese is possibly the first enemy the Sinhala armies face off that used heavy armor- cuirasses etc at that scale. many other weapons show adaptations to items that are better suited to armor piercing purposes at the time but Kasthana travels a different path in retaining a slashing blade. why? (keeping in mind that Kasthana may not have been a primary weapon of the soldiery of the field (Calachurro example?)). Also I just noted that brass blades are common among modern replica’s but it in no way necessitates that the image you presented is modern. Please let know the date of publication you extracted the swords from. If you look at the proper battle kasthana and the later purely ceremonial ones one of the most noted differences is the way the blade attaches to the hilt (like in the images provided), it will be very interesting to see how far back this type of construction can be set to.
Regards
Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I must say that I had decided to stay away from the thread; not due to being unable to stand argument as some might suggest-but as it no longer seems objective about the study that for me is one of profound personal interest. same things repeat over and over with minor contortions while (sadly) quickly forgetting all the information that has been Included in the previous thread where this discussion initiated. I did feel quite sad as among the noise there was also some very important material being shared and raised and I must say I did learn a lot being part of it.

The reason I am writing this note is to at least provide a re-cap of points that were presented in the other thread that seem to be getting forgotten and to at least try in some way to counter some of the mis-information that seem to be taking root within the thread. being from the country of origin of the Kasthana - It is sometimes difficult not to be amused by some of the things that continue being said (despite errors being pointed out). Many theories about Sinhala arts, crafts, culture and history portrayed seem alien and quite new to me having been a student of Sinhala Art history all my life. - it’s quite an eye opener how much mis-information; just starts as a wild guesses becomes realities and can take root through the internet. (may be it is my disadvantage to be from Sri Lanka - otherwise may be I would have enjoyed the fantasies more freely.)

As David already very correctly pointed out- In Sri Lanka neither Lion, Makara nor Serapendiya are ever considered deities or gods in any form; they are depicted as no more than mere decorative “BEAST” forms (though auspicious- like the lotus or conch-shell). They are used as Icons; Lion representing Sinhala race, Makara as a symbol of protection and regeneration. etc. etc.

The only goddess or deities represented on Kasthana seem to be images that may be Sri-Devi/Luxmi, or Patthini devi depicted sometimes on the outer side of the hand guard and/or on the langet. These on occasion may be only figures of “Nari-latha” or tree nymphs. It is a significant area of study to identify the mostly female deities present on a weapon instead of a warrior gods such as karthikeiya or Kali.

Forum still does not seem to recognize the sources I provided that in a Sri Lankan/ Sinhala historic context clearly establish the Kasthana Sword to mid 16th century. which at least in a local context is backed by examples that have good provenance and supported by strong literary evidence. There is solid local evidence to prove that the Kasthane sword in its proper form and name existed at least in mid 16th century if not earlier. . (please check earlier thread for reference) I do understand that the forum members are at a loss when it comes to reading original historic sources written in Sinhala. but the reality is that they do exist. the post 14th century era saw the emergence of a long series of books written as “Hatan Kavya” (war poems) which give significant details of battles and warriors and arms used.

If the sword (and the name Kasthana) was in existence in the early to mid 16th century and associated well with King Rajasinhe I. it is clear that the origin of the weapon clearly and significantly pre-date the Kandyan kingdom and its workshops; and would have its origin more in the Sithawaka and/or Kotte kingdoms- post the transfer of the capital to Kandy the workshops there would have continued production of the swords. but it would not have originated in “Kandyan workshops” which is a misnomer. The design trends associated with the early (more refined) form of Kasthana can be associated with art trends of even the Dambadeni or Gampola Kingdoms which predate even the Kotte Sithawaka era.

The Sinhala crafts and technology was influenced by more than the 3 European invaders and the moors, The country was visited 3 times by the Navy of Cheng ho (Zheng He) shortly before the arrival of the Portuguese; and there was prolific trade, diplomatic, religious and cultural ties to Thailand to Burma and most of East Asia and even up to China. Mainland India both Northern and Southern continued to be in strong contact throughout time. large Sinhala trade ships are documented sailing to Chinese ports and even to Roman courts more than a millennia before. the concept that the moors were the “mercantile marine” of the sinhales is in error though they did carry out trade in Sinhala ports during the 15th century and supported the Sinhales in some battles as the Portuguese was a direct threat to their trade. The Sinhales craftsmen were good at adapting foreign technology encountered often giving them a local twist. The location of the country at the southernmost tip of the Indian sub-continent necessitated any ships plying the coasts of South Asia would use it as a trade hub. The 14th century text “Kandauru siritha” list many types of foreign swords used by the kings army including swords listed as Pandi, Wadiga, Jaina, Malaya, Madura, Thelangu, Java, Vanga, Ayodhya swords. A total of 32 types of swords are listed including “Wak kadu” or curved swords which may have been the predecessor of the Kasthana type blade- which if true would date the type of blades significantly before the Portuguese encounter.

The craft based “cast” system was in existence in Sri Lanka till the end of the Kandyan Kingdom in 1815. The system was broken down only under the British rule.

The Early Kasthana was possibly designed with a lot of thought and reason for each of its components. The traditional systems carry rather firm disciplines in proportions and use of its elements. The texts like the “Vaijayantha-thanthra” are examples. which set guidelines for the length and breadth of blades and the types of decoration and iconographies to be followed. most of the sword lore and smiting techniques became extinct under the extreme repression of the British raj. The Brits took over the country using intrigue not the force of arms in which they repeatedly failed as long as the Sinhala crown lasted. so the Brits knew the need to suppress anything that was even connected to martial traditions in the Sinhales. Orders were given to shoot at anyone practicing “Angam” and all arms and armor related crafts perished in the post 1815 era.

Recently I was rather saddened to see a small “ola leaf” technical manual on ancient sword making being dismantled and sold piecemeal page by page to gullible tourists in an antique shop the South of the country purporting to be “Lord Buddha’s own handwriting”. But the bit that I saw remaining indicate firm guidelines set in construction of the blades.

Though I would not feel confident in identifying the inspiration for the Kasthana design- Based on the way a TRADITIONAL kasthana is constructed and put together I believe that the use of the quillons and the langet is used mainly to strengthen the base of the sword, provide a good seat on the scabbards and also to deflect a sliding cut away from the hand. not for the purpose of holding and locking enemy blades. The association of tibetan vajra with kasthana is purely artificial in a Sinhala context- as I pointed out before the Mahayana/Vajrayana buddhist traditions to which vajra symbolism belonged was extinct or only vestigially present in Sri Lanka the time in question. The predominant Theravada Buddhist traditions give no significance to it. the quillon shape is quite regular within the framework of Sinhala motifs without a need to associate it with the Vajra

Ibrahim I think your classification of Kasthana to include characters of all degenerate deviant sub-species counters the identification of proper kasthana swords- the true Kasthana carries a single edged blade that is curved, The quillons are always 4 and the primary animal heads on quillons, guard and hilt is 6 (or more- never less). There is a firm order and tradition of composition of animal head types and accessory figures and iconography on hilt and quillons. but I shall refrain on commenting further on this as I have given sufficient level of my comments on that topic elsewhere in the earlier thread but the issue within this forum stays stubbornly muddled.

Ibrahim I am not sure how these modern illustrations of Hindu gods become useful in the purpose of the thread. if needed look for period specific reference that may have more value here.

Napoleon- it is best to visit the earlier thread which carried some good illustrations of Kasthana, There are a modest amount of direct historic evidence available within a Sri Lankan archaeological/ historic records. If you would look at my posts I have included some references to heirloom swords still remaining with the original families they were gifted to by Kings which give good provenance as some still even carry gift deeds, flags and other items presented along with the kasthana to the chieftains who excelled in battle. I am also very interested in the typological chronology of the kasthana which seem quite clear path of evolution from the earliest (most refined) to late (of more valuable material but weak craftsmanship and design). a lot of modern poor quality replica’s also float around including brass bladed items. previously I made a possible reference to a source that could well stand as an earlier example of a Kasthana timeline based on the evolution of design elements.

I just hope the forum stay objective and selective in acceptance of the material provided- unless the thread may do more harm to the study of the Kasthana than good.

p.s. Ibrahim thank you for the private message to me. I was any way thinking of posting this.

Regards prasanna

Salaams Prasanna ~ Thank you for your note about my PM and your early response which is very highly regarded. Not being Srl Lankan in this regard I do apologise for the indelicate descriptions involving the famous and fabulous Icons surrounding the very convoluted story so far on the Kastane. From an outsiders viewpoint the best words to describe the designs seemed to be Deity..This is not simply an arrived at conclusion but appears in many references which we understand may have got it slightly off frequency...when perhaps to satisfy the equation Icon would be a better word, however, to the researcher there was no reason to be concerned since they both mean the same ... to them. I hope no offence has been made in this regard.

I was actually about to reitterate what you had pointed out regarding the Home Grown nature of The Kastane illustrating your post of the earlier thread showing the stone figure "Hanguranketha" with a sword clearly of similar Quillon style at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998&page=9&pp=30 and more or less ruling out any foreign influence altogether... though in fact the influence clearly flowed the other way much later than the 16th C. onto European Dogheads and in fact earlier referring to the Benin weapon(Hybrid) and to some extent the Popham Armour(Courtsword) and even the Sendai item ..

I hope you agree that though this has been a huge and difficult task especially as the research is so difficult and in particular from the foreigners viewpoint..and not being versed so well in Buddhism nor Hinduism that what we actually have achieved ...stormy at times ... :) ....is not a bad effort since now practically all the detail that is currently available rests on these pages. I make no apology for repetition or what some describe as "fat" since it is easy to jab remarks at what has been a difficult struggle to say the least. I believe that those who have fallen by the wayside did so because they couldnt stand the pace...or just were unable to get involved..maybe they can join later. The ink is free ! and they are always welcome.

In your other post in which you state Quote
"I think it is clear that the kasthane origin is Sinhala. but there are many un-answered questions remain and it is also clear that it did draw inspiration from many foreign sources as well. one of the questions that I am intrigued by is that the changeover of the Sinhala fighters from the dominance of double edged long swords of the previous era- that seem quite similar to the arms of the Portuguese roughly at the time of their arrival and shifting to the Kasthana". Unquote. This is a fascinating subject and I hope you can advise us further.

Nice to see your post and thank you for the excellent and constructive content... Great Country, Great People, Great Sword !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[David]

…when perhaps to satisfy the equation Icon would be a better word, however, to the researcher there was no reason to be concerned since they both mean the same ... to them.
They most certainly do not…not to researchers or anyone for that matter. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

They most certainly do not…not to researchers or anyone for that matter. :)

Salaams David. I think the matter is properly addressed now dont you? Despite vast references that illustrate the words Deity and note the huge variance in descriptive terms; dragon, snake, eagle, serpent, Makara, beast, gargoyle, Lion, to name a few... does it really actually matter ? The more important weight is concerned with the date and timing of any Sri Lankan adoption of this weapon style ... not whether Europeans transliterate what they see and what the references describe. Deity \ Icon??

Perhaps it would be like flogging a dead horse to continue arguing the point no? :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

Salaams David. I think the matter is properly addressed now dont you? Despite vast references that illustrate the words Deity and note the huge variance in descriptive terms; dragon, snake, eagle, serpent, Makara, beast, gargoyle, Lion, to name a few... does it really actually matter ? The more important weight is concerned with the date and timing of any Sri Lankan adoption of this weapon style ... not whether Europeans transliterate what they see and what the references describe. Deity \ Icon??

Perhaps it would be like flogging a dead horse to continue arguing the point no? :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Well Ibrahiim, you claim to want to understand the kastane. Any ethnographic weapon cannot be properly understood without a clear understanding of the culture that spawned it or that culture's intent in its design. Deities are gods and goddess, supreme beings that are worshipped by the people that attend to that culture. An "Icon" if you choose to insist on that term, when not used in its original sense of a painting of Jesus Christ, can be viewed as "a person or thing regarded as a representative symbol of something." If the Sinhalese people were placing their gods and goddess on these hilts it would have a certain meaning and power to it. That they chose the iconic lion, a symbol of the Sinhalese people, to place on the pommel, conveys a separate purpose, meaning and understanding. To confuse "Deity" with "Icon" or see them as somehow interchangeable terms will only lead to continued confusion on the intent, place and purpose of the kastane within Sinhalese culture. So, you ask "dragon, snake, eagle, serpent, Makara, beast, gargoyle, Lion, to name a few… does it really actually matter?" Come on Ibrahiim, of course it matters. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well Ibrahiim, you claim to want to understand the kastane. Any ethnographic weapon cannot be properly understood without a clear understanding of the culture that spawned it or that culture's intent in its design. Deities are gods and goddess, supreme beings that are worshipped by the people that attend to that culture. An "Icon" if you choose to insist on that term, when not used in its original sense of a painting of Jesus Christ, can be viewed as "a person or thing regarded as a representative symbol of something." If the Sinhalese people were placing their gods and goddess on these hilts it would have a certain meaning and power to it. That they chose the iconic lion, a symbol of the Sinhalese people, to place on the pommel, conveys a separate purpose, meaning and understanding. To confuse "Deity" with "Icon" or see them as somehow interchangeable terms will only lead to continued confusion on the intent, place and purpose of the kastane within Sinhalese culture. So, you ask "dragon, snake, eagle, serpent, Makara, beast, gargoyle, Lion, to name a few… does it really actually matter?" Come on Ibrahiim, of course it matters. :)

Salaams David, I think you are confused by the terminology and where I note your reference to religion, perhaps it underlines how difficult it is to engage in discussion without mentioning it. However, I am clear in my mind how these are viewed from the foreigner viewpoint and not being a follower of that religion... however, out of respect I have viewed the terms from a students angle in studying those religions from the Sri Lankan ancient historical viewpoint..

I have no problem with the words Icon or Deity. No it probably does not matter whether someone describes an Icon as a fish or dragon or Makara etc since it is only their perception ... nothing to get hung up about and since this is a discussion; no malice however hot the anvil becomes..

Prasanna Weerakkody would perhaps describe something as Iconic whereas I may perhaps call it a Deity... it doesn't matter. :) we are talking about the same thing.

What matters is in getting together a set of informative details however hard that is...and being able to step back and freely admit that Library has been served and as having contributed to the understanding of this very difficult subject; I think that is fair.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

Prasanna Weerakkody would perhaps describe something as Iconic whereas I may perhaps call it a Deity… it doesn't matter. :) we are talking about the same thing.
If that is really what you choose to believe Ibrahiim, good luck with that, but you have not convinced me in the least and your understanding of these weapons will continue to remain muddled as long as you cannot understand the importance in making a distinction between "Deity" and "Icon" when discussing what is represented on these hilts.

[fernando]

... Fernando I have always found your posts interesting and inspiring as it provided a counter/ more Portuguese oriented perspective to how I experience things down here. Your sources and material presented are just great. I think it is clear that the kasthane origin is Sinhala. but there are many un-answered questions remain and it is also clear that it did draw inspiration from many foreign sources as well. one of the questions that I am intrigued by is that the changeover of the Sinhala fighters from the dominance of double edged long swords of the previous era- that seem quite similar to the arms of the Portuguese roughly at the time of their arrival and shifting to the Kasthana. The Portuguese is possibly the first enemy the Sinhala armies face off that used heavy armor- cuirasses etc at that scale. many other weapons show adaptations to items that are better suited to armor piercing purposes at the time but Kasthana travels a different path in retaining a slashing blade. why? (keeping in mind that Kasthana may not have been a primary weapon of the soldiery of the field (Calachurro example?)). Also I just noted that brass blades are common among modern replica’s but it in no way necessitates that the image you presented is modern. Please let know the date of publication you extracted the swords from. If you look at the proper battle kasthana and the later purely ceremonial ones one of the most noted differences is the way the blade attaches to the hilt (like in the images provided), it will be very interesting to see how far back this type of construction can be set to ...
Thank you for your complacency, Prasanna :o .
I didn't dare familiarizing the Kasthana with the Calachurro, although it crossed my mind; but these inferrments are waters too deep for me to navigate :shrug: .
I have tried again to get the semanthics of Kasthana in the same glossary where the term Calachurro is contemplated. The author, Monsignor Sebastião Rodolfo Dalgado (Assagaum, Bardez, Goa 1855 - Lisbon 1922) is completely above suspicion, from the heigths of his knowledge of Devanagari, Latin, Concani, Lecturer in Sanscrit, Doctor in letters, author of a study of Portuguese influence in Indian subcontinent languages and other.
I was not surprised in not finding the term in the letter K, as such letter is not used in the portuguese alphabet. Then i tried the letter C (for Castane or similar) and still i found nothing, apart from the term Catana, derived from the well known Katana, which has a dozen quotations from the various chroniclars, but no one linking it to Sinhalese Kasthana, a possibility suggested by some. It is for me a great mistery that the Kasthana is not mentioned in this glossary ... unless the Portuguese gave it a name with a different composition.
I have phoned Mr. Daehnhardt, the book author and collector who owns the the brass blade Kasthana, besides several others, some of them highly valuable examples. I asked him to place an age on the example in the book and he answered, not mentioning that specific one but, brass blades in general, which certainly were from the 19th century ... even from the 20th. Talking about these swords in general he is of the opinion that the Kasthana dates from medieval times ( 4th, 6th, 7th century); ands he reiterates that it only achieved the lower curved (pseudo) quillons after association with the Portuguese ... whatever this statement is worth (my remark).

.

[Jim McDougall]

We have a person from the culture we are discussing come on to say that these creatures are not "deities". Let it go Jim…


Whew!! OK doc!! I'm alright now.......Ok, OK, let it go, let it go!
I'm glad to see the discussion is still going, and as I see various entries I can see just how silly much of it was. What I was trying to do, during my spell, was to illustrate what Prasanna noted quite simply, that the term denoting these mythical entities is different in many cases in Sri Lanka than in other cultural parlances.
The problems of semantics, transliteration and perception of course become issues in studying any facet of one culture by those of another. This is why we have footnotes, qualifying references or simply explanations of alternate views or terms. Actually those practices are unfortunately what often is in place with my 'avalanches' :)

By this same token, much the same as recognizing that definitions are not necessary applicable in every case (the reason why dictionaries offer multiple meanings) , descriptions of terms and meanings are not always 'cut and dry' particularly with the complexities of deeply subjective material.
With that I would recognize that proper understanding of terms, in the context being observed, is indeed important. This is why as researchers it is important for us to include these disparities in text as part of discussion, which often results in considerably more words. One of the key reasons for disagreements and misunderstandings in these venues is poor wording, lack of qualification or explanatory text, along of course with discourtesy.

I know that in trying to describe many of the figures we have been discussing, I feel very uncomfortable in using descriptions such as 'monster'; 'beast' or 'grotesque' as often used in many descriptions, as these are often seen with pejorative meanings in western culture. In this same manner I know that I try, as clearly has Ibrahiim, to find as proper an unoffensive term as possible to show proper respect in referring to the various elements we are discussing. Thankfully Prasanna has rejoined us to help us with these delicate aspects, for example in properly understanding the term deity, along with his comprehensive overall knowledge of course on these subjects.

What is even better is that Fernando has rejoined us with his extremely valuable knowledge and resources on the Portuguese part in the history of these weapons, not to mention his always brilliant wit which truly helps lighten the admittedly sometimes text laden burden here. With that I would acknowledge Rick's note on that issue, and his concerns on our integrity here due to the 'heavy' demeanor of the thread(s). It is true that many of us here are from different cultures, and certainly all have our own 'styles' and interests. It has always been my position that we should allow patience and understanding to prevail as we interact, as well as observing courtesy and gentlemanly respect toward each other.
A very wise man once said, if you find the style or subject matter of another disturbing or annoying, simply ignore them and avoid the thread and topics.
I am glad this thread has continued, and especially with the outstanding complement of participants now present. While some view the topic as having run its course, I have never seen history of anything as having reached that point, it is very much a living entity, always having more to say.

That is why we are here, and hopefully others sharing these interests will join, and emphatically I will say, all opinions, observations and views are welcome and eagerly accepted.

[David]

I know that in trying to describe many of the figures we have been discussing, I feel very uncomfortable in using descriptions such as 'monster'; 'beast' or 'grotesque' as often used in many descriptions, as these are often seen with pejorative meanings in western culture.
Jim, i completely agree with your distain for the use of the above terminology and its possible pejorative nature. This is why it is perhaps best to refer to these figures simply as "mythical creature" for that is surely what they are and the terminology should, hopefully, offend no one.
While i agree with you that language is indeed flexible, the word "Deity" refers to the divine no matter how you cut it or which of its multiple meanings we apply. It is from the word "Deus" which quite literally means "god". There is no other way to look at it. Really… :)
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/deity
I do really hope we can ALL just let this go now as it seems a bit like wagging the dog to me. BTW, it was not your "avalanche of words" that i was referring to in my previous post. :)

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks David, at last we agree on some stuff!!! and the mythical creature term seems a most applicable one. I recognize the root word from the Latin 'deus' (oh oh, I admit, it was on Wiki :) and that it does apply to divinity, so the application does become tenuous when applied to the creatures ( in Texas terminology 'critters') which are subordinate or supportive to the properly recognized deities.
Thanks for the note on the avalanches, and I admit I feel a bit sensitive on that..after all I am seldom brief :) ya think????

[fernando]

... It is from the word "Deus" which quite literally means "god"...
Wait a minute :confused:
Deus is precisely how we spell God in portuguese; you could have asked me that one :shrug: .


BTW, it was not your "avalanche of words" that i was referring to in my previous post. :)
Jim knows that; but he is a true chevalier ;)

[fernando]

Ah ... cross posts within two minutes flat :eek:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all :) ~ An interesting excursion and vignette into the cultural and traditional influence of the Portuguese upon Sri Lanka is nicely outlined at http://www.lusotopie.sciencespobordeaux.fr/jayasuriya.pdf

Perhaps more to the point...an outline of the Gannoruwa battle in which the Portuguese were routed is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:King_Rajasingha_II_%281608-1687%29.jpg and artwork already recorded at forum showing the type of sword is recorded there... Although this is relatively updated artwork it does appear to have been copied from a 1693 book thus may well be accurate and in describing the lodgement of the kings sword "A Kastane" in the national shrine ...after the battle.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Some additional images with kasthana to add to Ibrahiim's :) - from Herport 1669 (drummers) and Knox 1681 the Knox illustrations were done by an artist in Europe with instructions from the author so the limitations in the similarity of the Kasthana can be attributed to that; as similar mild omissions are seen in other aspects of the illustration as well, but the lion headed hilt and the typical Kasthana scabbard is distinct in the illustration

regards

Prasanna

[fernando]

... but the lion headed hilt and the typical Kasthana scabbard is distinct in the illustration ...
But not the lower recurved (fake) quillons :o ;)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Some additional images with kasthana to add to Ibrahiim's :) - from Herport 1669 (drummers) and Knox 1681 the Knox illustrations were done by an artist in Europe with instructions from the author so the limitations in the similarity of the Kasthana can be attributed to that; as similar mild omissions are seen in other aspects of the illustration as well, but the lion headed hilt and the typical Kasthana scabbard is distinct in the illustration

regards

Prasanna


Salaams Prasanna ~ Excellent artwork in support of this entire document. As you point out however this is "directed artwork" but nontheless important since it does show the king with his Kastane and I assume the same weapon that was donated to the shrine. The artwork of similar detail at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:King_Rajasingha_II_%281608-1687%29.jpg also shows the monumental and ornate "sash" which also appears down the centuries from which the Kastane is hung. It would be interesting to determine at what point or bracket in time the blade of the Kastane changed from straight to curved...and in a previous post you alluded to that phenomena...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Fernando; I believe that is an omission by the artist who had not seen the kasthana himself. Similar errors abound in his work but there is also much that can be corroborated with known sources to give a level of credibility to the material included.

Ibrahiim the image of King Rajasinge II is also from Knox- and by the same artist as the illustration I included. both the I and II Rajasinhe’s had a habit of donating swords to both Buddhist and Hindu temples as tokens of battle victories. but from what I have seen is quite often these turn out to be Portuguese swords possibly belonging to the vanquished enemy captains. I am not sure if King Rajasinghe II sword has properly been identified in collections yet. Knox remained a captive in Kandy for near 2 decades and had audience with the King on many occasions- so his description could be believed

Regards

Prasanna

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Ibrahiim; Just to note that except in the case of Kings and then later era mudelliers serving under colonial masters- Kashane was not worn on a sash, but hung from the belt usually with a spring loaded clip or a loop on the scabbard.


Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim; Just to note that except in the case of Kings and then later era mudelliers serving under colonial masters- Kashane was not worn on a sash, but hung from the belt usually with a spring loaded clip or a loop on the scabbard.


Prasanna

Salaams Prasanne ~ Thank you for the detail. As you clearly realise...researching this topic "as an outsider" hits the wall at about three quarters the way through the first colonial period and huge gaps are apparent in our understanding ~not least the disruption of locally produced blades~ and in trying to identify the starting grid for the original Kastane design etc . Here is a perfect example of that misunderstanding... The appearance on artwork of the sash and later Kastane being worn in a similar fashion, yet, unbeknown to outside researchers the fact as you describe above. Thank you also for the Knox detail.

There is an interesting note in a description of Knox in captivity which states:

Quote " Describing the King’s palace, he says: "I will not adventure to declare further the contents of his treasuries, lest I may be guilty of a mistake. " Unquote.

That I find a great pity since he did not spend half an afternoon describing the Kastane!! If only? :)

Readers can see a full account at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Knox_%28sailor%29 and many others simply by keying in "Knox in Sri Lanka"..interesting that his adventures inspired Daniel Defoe's Robinson Crusoe ..


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Including an image carved by a Portuguese artist currently at the Maha Saman Devala (temple) premises in Rathnapura. the stone carving depict the Portuguese captain slaying a local chief. There is some doubt as to who is the fallen warrior, (may be Fernando or someone versed in Portuguese could attempt to decipher the attached text. ) interestingly the fallen warrior carries a lion headed- single edged blade with similarities to Kasthana. the guards and quillons are not clear- either due to not being present, hidden or artists omissions. The image is dated circa 1610-1650

Regards

Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Including an image carved by a Portuguese artist currently at the Maha Saman Devala (temple) premises in Rathnapura. the stone carving depict the Portuguese captain slaying a local chief. There is some doubt as to who is the fallen warrior, (may be Fernando or someone versed in Portuguese could attempt to decipher the attached text. ) interestingly the fallen warrior carries a lion headed- single edged blade with similarities to Kasthana. the guards and quillons are not clear- either due to not being present, hidden or artists omissions. The image is dated circa 1610-1650

Regards

Prasanna


Salaams Prasanna..Tantalising also is the shape of the blade...Whose form is so similar to the Sendai Museum blade...!! :eek:

I place below a Knox addition showing the warrior to the right with an apparent Kastane also.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[fernando]

At forst sight, this is more a problem of visibility than one of language. Sadly most words are unreadable in the picture.
But i can advance Prasana that, this may not be a slay scene but a surrender one.
I think i discern the letters that compose "surrender" or its derivations (Render, Rendição) and, if you look at the picture with such focusing, you will realize this seems to make some sense. Maybe also the word India can be read ?
I promise i will burn my eyelashes to go deeper into this... and also spot some citation to a surrender in the pages i can access.

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All.. A note on Iron Production which though it may have been slowed and disrupted by Colonial interference through cheaper imports was by no means totally stopped..Knox writes ~

Quote " Their Manufactures are few: some Callicoes, not so fine as good strong Cloth for their own use: all manner of Iron Tools for Smiths, and Carpenters, and Husbandmen: all sorts of earthen ware to boil, stew, fry and fetch water in, Goldsmith’s work, Painter’s Work, carved work, making Steel, and good Guns, and the like.

But their Art in ordering the Iron-Stone and making Iron, may deserve to be a little insisted on. For the Countrey affords plenty of Iron, which they make of Stones, that are in several places of the Land; they lay not very deep in the ground, it may be, about four or five or six foot deep.

How they make Iron.First, They take these Stones, and lay them in an heap, and burn them with wood, which makes them more soft and fitter for the Furnace. When they have so done they have a kind of Furnace, made with a white sort of Clay, wherein they put a quantity of Charcoal, and then these Stones on them, and on the top more Charcoal. There is a back to the Furnace, like as there is to a Smith’s Forge, behind which the man stands that blows, the use of which back is to keep the heat of the fire from him. Behind the Furnace they have two logs of Wood placed fast in the ground, hollow at the top, like two pots. Upon the mouths of these two pieces of hollow wood they tie a piece of a Deers Skin, on each pot a piece, with a small hole as big as a man’s finger in each skin. In the middle of each skin a little beside the holes are two strings tied fast to as many sticks stuck in the ground, like a Spring, bending like a bow. This pulls the skin upwards. The man that blows stand with his feet, one on each pot, covering each hole with the soles of his feet. And as he treads on one pot, and presseth the skin down, he takes his foot off the other, which presently by the help of the Spring riseth; and the doing so alternately conveys a great quantity of wind thro the Pipes into the Furnace. For there are also two Pipes made of hollow reed let in to the sides of the Pots, that are to conduct the wind, like the nose of a Bellows, into the Furnace.

For the ease of the Blower, there is a strap, that is fastned to two posts, and comes round behind him, on which he leans his back: and he has a stick laid cross-ways before him, on which he lays both his hands, and so he blows with greater ease. As the Stones are thus burning, the dross that is in them melts and runs out at the bottom, where there is a slanting hole made for the purpose so big as the lump of Iron may pass thro: out of this hole, I say, runs out the dross like streams of fire, and the Iron remains behind. Which when it is purified, as they think, enough, so that there comes no more dross away, they drive this lump of Iron thro the same sloping hole. Then they give it a chop with an Ax half thro, and so sling it into the water. They so chop it, that it may be seen that it is good, Iron for the Satisfaction of those that are minded to buy". Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All, At last a description by Knox in his book which can be fully read on line at...

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/14346

and in which he describes the nobility and what they wear..viz;

Quote"The Nobles in their best Apparel.The Habit of the men when they appear abroad is after this sort. The Nobles wear Doublets of white or blew Callico, and about their middle a cloth, a white one next their skin, and a blew one or of some other colour or painted, over the white: a blew or shash girt about their loyns, and a Knife with a carved handle wrought or inlaid with Silver sticking in their bosom; and a compleat short Hanger carved and inlaid with Brass and Silver by their sides, the Scabbard most part covered with Silver; bravely ingraven; a painted Cane and sometimes a Tuck in it in their hands, and a boy always bare-headed with long hair hanging down his back waiting upon him, ever holding a small bag in his hand, which is instead of a Pocket, wherein is Betel-leaves and nuts. Which they constantly keep chewing in their mouths, with Lime kept in a Silver Box rarely engraven, which commonly they hold in their hands, in shape like a Silver Watch". Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Tell me Prasana: Why do you call the Portuguese soldier a Captain ... do you know he had such rank, or you just used term in a abstract manner ?
I amalso curious in that, when i saved the images to 'work' on them, the name shown in them was "Pinhão" for the first one, "Pinhão-sword" for the second and "Pinhão-inscription" for the third. Just for curiosity, i browsed on Pinhão in Ceylon and i found a Captain Fernão Pinhão whom, under command of Captain-General Jorge de Albuquerque was in charge of the reinforcement works of the fortification of Galle, by 1623.
I notice that Rathnapura is not so far from Galle.
Most probably this is a coincidence ... interesting, nevertheless :o

.

[fernando]

So the Captain was indeed Pinhão; not Fernão but Simão.
And, as i have previously discerned, both words SURRENDER and INDIA are in the inscription ;) .


Say Prasanna, did you know this paper ?


The inscribed mural stone at Maha Saman Devale, Ratnapura by Donald Ferguson (1899).

... Let into a niche in the basement of the raised quadrangle, a little to
the north of the flight of steps leading from the outer courtyard, is a
mural stone of some historic value, and of singular interest from the
strange and unexpected position in which it is found. On it, sculptured
in bold relief, are two figures about half the size of life. They
represent the closing event of a mortal combat between a Portuguese,
armed cap-a-pie, and a Sinhalese warrior. Conquered in the encounter,
the latter has been stricken down ; his sword and shield are cast
despairingly aside ; and his antagonist, trampling under foot his pros-
trate form, is now with one final blow about to deprive him of his life.
The inscription below, partly in Roman and partly in Sinhalese
characters, is so much effaced as to be only very partially readable ;.
some portions of the figures are also damaged, seemingly from the action
of the weather upon the stone. The whole is, however, most spiritedly-
executed, and enough of the inscription remains to show that the name
of the Portuguese soldier was Gomez. The Sinhalese say the prostrate
warrior was their champion, one Kuruwita Bandara, a dreaded enemy
of the Portuguese, whose soldiers he had repeatedly cut off, and that
some fifty had fallen by his hand ere he himself was slain. The
sculpture was no doubt executed in Europe by royal or vice-regal
command, and sent hither to do honour to the soldier whose valorous
deed it commemorated.
The above is the only reference to this stone that I have met
with in the many writers on Ceylon — Portuguese, Dutch, and
English — whose works I have searched for information
regarding it ; and yet it is undoubtedly some three centuries
old ; though how long it has heen in its present position,
and whether it was originally placed near the spot it now
occupies, are questions which may well arise in one's mind.
Mr. Skeen's description contains several errors. I think
it more probable that the sculpture was executed in Ceylon,
where there would be no lack of artists in the Portuguese
ranks competent for the work. There are no Sinhalese
characters in the inscription, which is entirely in Portuguese.
Moreover the name of the Portuguese warrior (who is
hardly " armed cap-a-pie") was not Gomez, though any one
ignorant of Portuguese might easily conclude so from
deciphering the first few letters-.
The inscription, so far as I have been able to decipher it,
is as follows (I expand the contractions, and separate the
combined letters): —

COM • EST A* • RENDl • ESTEf * HA ■ 23J ■ ANNOS • QVE ■
ANDO • NA • INDIA • E • HA ■ 15 J • QVE • SIRVO • DE • CA
PITAO • E • TAOQVE§ • OS • REIS ... DE ... E • ■ REI ■
DE • IAFANAPATAO • EV- SIMAO- PINHAO • VENCI

* Scil. espada. f Scil. homem, J Conjectural. § Or ao que 1

Transcript:

[Com esta rendi este, ha 23 (?) annos que ando na India, e ha 15 (?)
que sirvo de capitao ; e taoque (?) os reis...de... (?) e o rei de
Jafanapatao, eu Simao Pinhao o venci.]

Translation:

With this [sword] I overcame this [man], it being 23 (?) years that
I have been in India, and 15 (?) that I have served as captain ; and as
soon as (?) the kings and the king of Jafanapatao, I, Simao Pinhao, conquered him. "

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Yes it is known that the Portuguese warrior was Pinhao. Thanks Fernando for putting much time in to this. I had not seen this particular paper but seen Similar ones. there are 3 interpretations circulating so I was interested in trying to get some independant confirmation. :) , some say it is Samarakoon rala/Kuruwita Bandara others say it was Rathnayaka mudiyanse and 3rd it was the king of Jaffna. each interpretation given by people with good standing, so only the text shall say for sure. The key is if the word Jaffnapato is really there that will rule out the other two.

There was a Portuguese fort for a time close to the Saman devale premises. this was possibly erected there and later moved to the devale after destruction of the fort. Sri Lanka is a small country so warriors were deployed all over the place.

Regards and thanks

Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All...

The Sendai Museum exhibits a potentially original early Kastane blade see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998 where the weapon is discussed in depth...collected intact, by chance in the Philipines, by the Japanese diplomat and Samurai Hasekura Tsunenaga and this may be backed up by the stone carving with identical form below and expertly presented at post #112.

The Storta style of blade whilst intriguing, puzzling and stunning!! may have been introduced earlier, though, that is pure conjecture but in line with the hypothesis on European blade diffusion / the Moors /etc.

The interesting reverse theory that this shape of blade may in fact be of the early home grown form and occasionally favoured by warriors without the Vajra Quillons perhaps so that the index finger could be looped over the guard for added purchase power on the thick backblade? Perhaps quillons were optional?

(Though it is not without possibility that this was simply artistic stone carvers artistic impression the other details in the carving seem very accurate)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Hello again Prasanna

I am beginning to learn that the interpretation of this mural stone has been a largely divulgated enigma; which makes me feel a dwarf among so many specialists, versus whom i, a non schooled person, wouldn't dare to contradict.
But ...
Although the character of Simão Pinhão (Fernão's oncle) appears to be of no doubt, the Cingala warrior individual and his situation in the scene is still a mistery. So much because the text mentions more than one King and, the posture of the Portuguese Captain, i humbly insist, is that of imposing submission and not of execution.
An atemptive translation of the text reminds us that Pinhão is (only) defeating his adversary. While he says that "with this i render this", he doesn't say i am executing or executed this; if he had in fact killed the warrior, why wouldn't he prefer the stone sculpted with such final image ?
An exponential example of this is one provided by a source that pretends that Pinhão is rescuing from death the successor of the King of Jaffna ... whatever this statement is worth :confused: :
(QUOTING) In 1591 the king of Jafnna was unwise enough to attack Mannar, and in consequence lost his life and throne at the hands of the Portuguese under Andre Furtado. His successor, whose rescue from death by Simao Pinhao is depicted on the mural tablet at the Saman Dewale near Ratnapura, was the creature of Portugal, and from 1593 there were only two powers in the island, the Kandyans under Vimala Dharma Surya and the Portuguese notninally fighting for Dharmapala;. the latter, as we have seen, had taken Sitawaka and recovered most of the old dominions of Kotte with such ease that in.. 1594 they proposed to annex the highland kingdom and place on the throne Dona Catharina, the daughter, of the king expelled by Rajasinha. Pedro Lopes De Sousa, the first `Captain General of the Conquest,' succeeded in entering Kandy, and enthroned the princess. But he alienated the people by surrounding the young queen with Portuguese. Further, Manamperi was suspected of treason and slain; his levies thereupon deserted, and the expedition ended in disaster in the neighbourhood of Gannoruwa. The general was killed and Dona Catharina fell into the hands of Vimala Dharma Surya, who perfected his title by marrying the heiress of Kandy. The `Apostate of Candea' treated the captive Portuguese with great cruelty, mutilating fifty of them and sending these to Colombo `with one eye for each five (END QUOTING).
The other "confusion" is that Pinhão mentions various Kings in the text. Although the deciphering does not reveal the name of them all, we clearly read OS REIS DE meaning the plural for Kings (*) ... this before mentioning the last King, such one considered to be the one subjugated in the scene.
(*) Could one be the King of Uva ? :o
Another touch up in the translation would be that he mentions that he has "defeated" or "beaten" (the King or Kings) ... perhaps better terms than "conquered".
Concerning the inclusion of the name of Jaffanapatão (Jaffnapatan), even with the help of the decipherings already published i am not qualified to assure the word is there ... although it looks plausible, certainly more plausible than the other possibilities suggested. Besides the erosion of the stone, translations of (early) texts are (also) contextual, hence worthy of a specialist. I have read that Donald Ferguson is intimate with the portuguese language.
One possibility i haven't yet heard of, which being a remote one is not necessarily implausible, is that the scene depicted may only be a virtual (symbolic) one, commissioned by a presumptuous Pinhão, based on his feats. Symbolism also exists; somehow like the multiple attribution of the Cingalese warrior in the scene.
But coming back to the topic of the thread, which is the Kasthane, the sword in the hands of the Cingala (Kandyan) warrior looks more like a calachurro ;) :cool:


-

[David]

But coming back to the topic of the thread, which is the Kasthane, the sword in the hands of the Cingala (Kandyan) warrior looks more like a calachurro ;) :cool:
Wouldn't it be a bit long for a calachurro. I believe you recently cited a source from 1685 that put the length of those knives at 2 1/2 palms long. :shrug:

[fernando]

Wouldn't it be a bit long for a calachurro. I believe you recently cited a source from 1685 that put the length of those knives at 2 1/2 palms long. :shrug:
C'mon David :(
Let me put up some fantasy. Artists had their freedom ... more often towards exagerating than minimizing things. Just trying to justify myself ;) .
... And i thought the palm measure was secret data :eek: :D .
Speaking seriously, my approach was more to the sword not being a Kasthane ... as we are presently given to know its design :shrug:

[David]

C'mon David :(
Let me put up some fantasy. Artists had their freedom ... more often towards exagerating than minimizing things. Just trying to justify myself ;)
Absolutely Nando, fantasize away…this is certainly a good thread for fantasy. :D
…and i agree, a lion-headed pommel no more makes a sword a kasthana as a wavy blade makes a dagger a keris though i wouldn't count out that this sword may have been of a form that had some influence on the development of the kasthana as we know it. :shrug: :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Including an image carved by a Portuguese artist currently at the Maha Saman Devala (temple) premises in Rathnapura. the stone carving depict the Portuguese captain slaying a local chief. There is some doubt as to who is the fallen warrior, (may be Fernando or someone versed in Portuguese could attempt to decipher the attached text. ) interestingly the fallen warrior carries a lion headed- single edged blade with similarities to Kasthana. the guards and quillons are not clear- either due to not being present, hidden or artists omissions. The image is dated circa 1610-1650

Regards

Prasanna


Salaams Prasanna, As you say some say it is Samarakoon rala/Kuruwita Bandara others say it was Rathnayaka mudiyanse... however do you draw anything from the similarity in sword which appears to have many Kastane characteristics and tantalizing in its parallels with the Sendai Museum item? The more I think about the fact of the broad Storta like blade the more I consider this form as a possible shape to the early (15/16thC Kastane.) Such a famous and respected Sri Lankan Warrior could easily have dispensed with the quillons and guard for his personal weapon of choice; The Kastane.

For interest I note from another Forum the possibility/hypothesis that the Kastane hilt was crossed onto other blade forms as a matter of preference in the early European days of the Portuguese period.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

It is excellent that this thread is moving along so well, and I especially appreciate the constructive and well observed contributions by Prasanna, Fernando and Ibrahiim. It is most helpful that along with Prasanna's well established experience in this fascinating history are the researched entries by Fernando and Ibrahiim which has enabled some great questions and perspective.

I am inclined to agree with Fernando in thinking that this late 16th century frieze was probably fashioned by a Portuguese artist there in Ceylon.
It is important to note that artists have always been inclined to a degree of latitude in 'spinning' their works toward the perception intended for their theme. I think in this case the Portuguese soldier is well depicted as is the arming sword he is wielding. With this in mind, it would seem that the sword of the Sinhalese chief would be equally accurate in its depiction, and with that I believe that the blade does remarkably correspond to heavy, single edged straight falchion type forms, indeed as seen on some storta.

In reviewing Deraniyagala, there is mention of early Sinhalese swords notably including a single edged form along with contemporary double edged forms. It is noted that these single edged forms apparently had a truncated tip recalling those of Japanese swords. I do not mention this to allude to any connection to Japanese swords, and the comment is as a point of comparison noting the attention to the blade tip. In these heavy, storta/falchion type blades there is considerable attention to a protracted radius to afford better slashing potential.

It is also noted in Deraniyagala that the kasthana which developed as a ceremonial sword of rank did differ from the less embellished combat types of course. As we have discussed, the quillons found in the more familiar guard system seen on kasthana are vestigial elements which were not in place for swordsmanship or combat purposes, so it would seem understandable that a combat version as seen here may likely have been without them. More interesting is the presence of what indeed appears a zoomorphic head on the pommel, and the suggestion that such iconic presence could be placed in the period when this frieze was carved.

Concerning the reference to the weapon termed calachurro, in going through one reference which I believe has been mentioned ('Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society' #46, 1895-1896) the author states that in the Kandyan region there is no such term, but it is unclear whether the reference might allude to another weapon. In Knox's Sinhalese vocabulary it is noted that they did carry a small, short sabre with slight curve.

In analyzing contemporary narratives or later recounting of them, there is perhaps even more danger or 'fantasy' involved in interpretation than in the visual reading of artwork. This is of course due to semantics and local parlances and colloquial use for various descriptive terms.

Such are the conundrums and issues we typically encounter as we use the resources and material at hand to investigate evidence and clues using them to formulate ideas and observations. Though sometimes seeming somewhat fanciful or 'fantastic' , these are always pertinent and valid in varying degree, and here we consider it constructive research, which indeed well describes the texture of our thread.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Now heres a funny thing ! From http://www.huntspost.co.uk/news/latest-news/sword_mystery_at_huntingdon_s_cromwell_museum_1_89 6806

Quote "Historians think the handles, part of a new exhibition on the battle of Naseby at Cromwell Museum, were found at the battlefield in Northamptonshire, where Oliver Cromwell’s forces defeated the Royalists in 1645.

The owner of the swords and their presence at the battle remains a mystery, but the handles were mounted as a carving knife and fork set in the 19th century.

Curator John Goldsmith said: “We can only suggest that one of the handles was lost on the field at Naseby, and then re-used for the carving set. But who was the owner on that violent day in 1645? We may never know. Please come along and find out more about this important battle that happened on Huntingdon’s doorstep and form your own theories.”

INFORMATION: The Museum is open Tuesday to Sunday from 10.30am to 12.30pm and 1.30pm to 4pm. Admission is free".Unquote :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

Could these have been court swords\ worn on the Armour similar to the Popham?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi ~ :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[spiral]

Well often people who believe curators blindly are nearly as daft as those who believe arms dealers {or anyone else who works in sales, or has a vested interest that increases there personal wealth... secondhand car dealers, electrical goods salesmen etc.etc.}....{ Of course excluding & Excepting all respected members of this forum of course... :D}


Here's a early & "rare antique Gurkha kukri" in a secure museum area, gifted to them by police who had seized it...

Strange really it looks like 70s or 80s export crap to me... ;)

But oddest of all is really, how scary & horror B movieish curators & police look together... :D

spiral


http://mancultural.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/museum-sword-04.jpg

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams... Indeed Museums do come in for a certain degree of poked fun.. however, such is the rarity of Kastane turning up early in UK circles that perhaps these are vintage Cromwellian, and though this tiny museum is on the fringe ... It does claim to be the Oliver Cromwell Museum... and artefacts in it appear to be from that period. If anyone is in the area... a quick visit may be suggested... apparently it is so small a half hour is sufficient to absorb the content. It would be interesting to discover the facts about these two Kastane... most peculiar ! It may be about to close... maybe they will sell the objects cheap... :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

... But oddest of all is really, how scary & horror B movieish curators & police look together... :D ...
Scary? :confused:
We sure have different perspectives, Jonathan; they look pathetic to me :eek: .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all... Well that was an interesting interlude. Shall we bring the guns to bare on the main target ?... The Kastane .. I have tried in vain to raise the Cromwellian Museum but the curator was last seen carrying a huge bundle of swords in the direction of the local souk..."Any Old Iron" !! was his call... :shrug:
I consider decorative Kastane style here and bring another item of beautiful hand carved Ivory as a sample of excellent artesan production..
Here is an Ivory Sri Lankan box... hand carved in identical fashion to the swirls of the Makara tail often incorporated into Kastana hilts...

The one with the Iconic Zoomorphic style is described as ~

Such cabinets were produced in Ceylon (present day Sri Lanka) off the western coast of India on commission from Portuguese traders for the European market by the mid 16th century.

The shape and function are European, but the subject and style of the elaborate carving, including perforation of the ivory plaques that make it up, are characteristic of Ceylon.

The plaques of ivory are carved in low relief, backed by sheets of tortoise shell and with silver fittings (corner pieces, rivets, key plates, original key and handles).

On the front, the upper drawer is decorated with confronted lions spewing scrolls enclosed in borders of quatrefoils and beading; the lower two drawers have key plates and scrolling, with identical borders.

On the sides are square central panels with winged leonine fantastic creatures with reptilian scaled tails (serapendiyas) enclosed in borders surrouned by scrolling and framed with borders.

On the top are two confronted leonine creatures, similar to those on the sides, enclosed in beaded ovals and scrollwork, further enclosed in a border with outer scrolling and border.

On the back is an oblong field with fragment of leonine creature enclosed in beaded frame with elaborate scrolling and border.

The underside is composed of plain ivory.

There is also a small section of border in the upper drawer.

So as not to be out done by the Cromwellian Museum I also sourced a carving set with Lionesque Sri Lankan Icons for hilts...Maybe the hilts shown earlier were previously swords on 'Armour Cromwellian' after all ! :p

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all...

In observing further Kastane decorative style and refering to http://www.craftrevival.org/Extralinks.asp?PageCode=P00014 as a guide... perhaps the most relevant source of inspiration on design flows from the Piha Kheata form (both ways?) ...The two seem inextricably linked.

Images from http://members.tripod.com/~images_of_ceylon/arms.html
and http://www.caravanacollection.com/project/kastane-sword

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[spiral]

Scary? :confused:
We sure have different perspectives, Jonathan; they look pathetic to me :eek: .


Fair enough Fernando! You brave hero!

I can just imagine booking into a rural hotel, on a stormy night that these 3 run, but I guess you haven't seen the old English hammer house of horror b movies.. :shrug:

No real loss. ;)

But of course it may just be your brave Mediterranean machismo that would deal with the potential Perverted cannibal zombie vampires without even a slight hastening of the heart beat. :eek:

:D

spiral

[spiral]

So as not to be out done by the Cromwellian Museum I also sourced a carving set with Lionesque Sri Lankan Icons for hilts...Maybe the hilts shown earlier were previously swords on 'Armour Cromwellian' after all ! :p

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119301&stc=1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I don't believe there Sri Lankan? Any evidence?

Spiral

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

one of the images included by Ibrahiim in the collection of Ivory caskets is of particular interest and relevance in a different way to the topic in question- I quote from - “A catalogue of Antiquities and other cultural objects from Sri Lanka (Ceylon) Abroad” - De Silva P.H.D.H.- Ivory casket no 1241 presently at Schatzkammer Der Residenz, Munich.

“In 1506 the Portuguese occupied Ceylon (“Sinhala Dvipa”) ; the island was then ruled by several kings, dominated by an Emperor. According to W. Sloman, Emperor Buwaneka Bahu (1521-51) did not want his brother Mayadunne but his grandson Dharmapala to become his successor. To receive the support of his fief master, the Portuguese King, for this plan, Buwaneka bahu sent in 1542 a delegation to Lisbon. There exists two descriptions about the delegation… According to one report (appr 1630) The delegate delivered two ivory statues, representing the emperor and the prince proposed for the succession to the throne; according to the other report (appr. 1687) the gifts presented to the Portuguese court consisted of a crown set with gems and a statue of massive gold representing Dharmapala (then about three years old) in natural height. after the fief -oath in effigy had been taken on behalf of this prince, Don Juan III of Portugal crowned the statue as a sign of acknowledgement of the succession to the throne”

The Ivory casket illustrates the events in detail from the coronation of King Buwaneka bahu to birth of the prince Dharmapala (Dom Juan) to the bringing of the effigy of the prince to Portugal and the crowning of the statue by King of Portugal.

The importance of this casket to the forum is in the depiction of many Sinhala arms including swords in a datable context at the time of the Portuguese wars and also coinciding or slightly predating with the time of the advent of the Kasthana as we know currently. yet no Kasthana swords can be observed in the collection depicted. even the royal sword used by King Buwanekabahu in his coronation seem to be a double edged blade of the common gladius type weapon of the time but longer. But it must be noted that the earliest specifically datable Kasthana swords are linked to the Mulleriyawela battle in 1559.

The images are of poor quality- may I make a general appeal if any forum member in that part of the world is able to get access to the specimen that we may be able to get some better photographs of the Item. ;)

regards

prasanna

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

missed one- the coronation of King Buwanekabahu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I don't believe there Sri Lankan? Any evidence?

Spiral

Salaams Spiral ~ Do you mean ...is there evidence that the two Horn? hilts in the Cromwellian Museum made into carvers are real... Im certain they are...but I dont know if they were at the Royalist Battle...On the other hand do you mean the two Ivory Lionesque Icons made into carvers ... I suspect they are and part of the trade in Ivory items imported into Europe by the Portuguese.

If, however, you have any evidence to prove that they (in either case) are not, please go ahead and outline the details. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

one of the images included by Ibrahiim in the collection of Ivory caskets is of particular interest and relevance in a different way to the topic in question- I quote from - “A catalogue of Antiquities and other cultural objects from Sri Lanka (Ceylon) Abroad” - De Silva P.H.D.H.- Ivory casket no 1241 presently at Schatzkammer Der Residenz, Munich.

“In 1506 the Portuguese occupied Ceylon (“Sinhala Dvipa”) ; the island was then ruled by several kings, dominated by an Emperor. According to W. Sloman, Emperor Buwaneka Bahu (1521-51) did not want his brother Mayadunne but his grandson Dharmapala to become his successor. To receive the support of his fief master, the Portuguese King, for this plan, Buwaneka bahu sent in 1542 a delegation to Lisbon. There exists two descriptions about the delegation… According to one report (appr 1630) The delegate delivered two ivory statues, representing the emperor and the prince proposed for the succession to the throne; according to the other report (appr. 1687) the gifts presented to the Portuguese court consisted of a crown set with gems and a statue of massive gold representing Dharmapala (then about three years old) in natural height. after the fief -oath in effigy had been taken on behalf of this prince, Don Juan III of Portugal crowned the statue as a sign of acknowledgement of the succession to the throne”

The Ivory casket illustrates the events in detail from the coronation of King Buwaneka bahu to birth of the prince Dharmapala (Dom Juan) to the bringing of the effigy of the prince to Portugal and the crowning of the statue by King of Portugal.

The importance of this casket to the forum is in the depiction of many Sinhala arms including swords in a datable context at the time of the Portuguese wars and also coinciding or slightly predating with the time of the advent of the Kasthana as we know currently. yet no Kasthana swords can be observed in the collection depicted. even the royal sword used by King Buwanekabahu in his coronation seem to be a double edged blade of the common gladius type weapon of the time but longer. But it must be noted that the earliest specifically datable Kasthana swords are linked to the Mulleriyawela battle in 1559.

The images are of poor quality- may I make a general appeal if any forum member in that part of the world is able to get access to the specimen that we may be able to get some better photographs of the Item. ;)

regards

prasanna


Salaams Prasanna, Thank you for your excellent addition to this thread. If I may... I would like to leave the idea of the weapons depicted til later... I need to research those and to see if the controlled artistic impression was such that only ancient weapons were depicted...and how or who would decide what weapons to show... I simply don't know. Perhaps it was purely traditional to show certain sword types but not others...?

I have to say it was pure luck that I posted this casket though being a collector of such items I was very impressed by the craftsmanship and the striking similarities in design on Kastane... and in fact other weapons including the folliage effect carved into long guns at the butt.

Fortuitously your post places the important battle of Mulleriyawela and as presented at http://www.mulleriyawa.org/EN/index.htm which inclues an interesting and atmospheric enacted series of fight scenes involving the Kastane etc. If the situation described is true it places that date as the earliest date of this weapons appearance and since it appears as an associated weapon of Angampora (Angagaratha herala), though, the battle was said to be circa 1560... if the weapon was from the Angampora stable it must have been more ancient; The martial arts of Sri Lanka go back around 30,000 years.

I have difficulty trying to reconcile the weapon with anything European ...in particular Portuguese since they were the agressor\invader and a weapon such as the Kastane is associated with relatively high Sri Lankan historic and religious entity. It simply makes no sense to either design a weapon and\or give it a Portuguese name when it held such a place of high esteem inside the Sri Lankan psyche.

My take on this sword (though I cannot rule out influence) is that it gets its design from an ancient Sri Lankan group of decorations and ideas though perhaps fused with something the Moors /traders imported earlier or which difused regionally...but from which direction? There are powerful suggestions that Javanese hilts have a place in the story (not to mention the broad effects from decorative Buddhist and Hindu form via India etc). Further , that through the martial arts system this style has been rooted in Sri Lankan history long before the entry by the first colonial power, The Portuguese, entered the equation.

I think we are now pressing hard on the Kastane origin of species though it may never be fully uncovered.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[fernando]

Hi Prasanna,
Amazing how distinguishable are both Sinhalese and Portuguese swords in the scene with the King and the delegate. This is a good sign that the artist knew what he was doing.
Speaking of which ... You must be aware that the coronation scene you uploaded in the second post is part of a second casket, also presently exhibited in the same museum, with inventory number 1242 (the previous one is 1241). I deeply regret not being able to get better pictures of these caskets, but still would like to post here a scene sculpted in cask 1242, which apparently was offered by Ceylon Royalty to Portuguese Vice-Roy in India, showing a local ritual of allegiance, in which both Lord and vassal swords are of the 'Gladius' type, as in the other cask.

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=Prasanna Weerakkody]
yet no Kasthana swords can be observed in the collection depicted. even the royal sword used by King Buwanekabahu in his coronation seem to be a double edged blade of the common gladius type weapon of the time but longer.

Salaams Prasanna ~ I note all you say regarding this group of gifts ... and have one question regarding the absence of the Kastane.. As in the depiction of many carvings either in Ivory or stone I notice that only the ancient forms are presented. This is certainly the case in Indian statues and scenes and I believe this was because each God presented had His / Her own weapon thus it was always illustrated as such. Was this not the same in Sri Lankan carving practice?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Fernando, yes both caskets are included in the catalogue I copied the images from. I forgot to mention that it was from the second one. The image accuracy seem quite good judging from other elements depicted. so swords are also most probably accurate. In the second image at the top (plate 18) there are two panels in the upper row that depict gladiators. one pair carry a curious double curved sword and a strange plate like object instead of a shield. the swords in the second set seem straight and thin - sort of like rapiers and rather diminutive shields….

Ibrahiim- though there are many claims that Angam arts go back to Antiquity it is not based on solid evidence. no doubt there were fighting arts though time but the Angam in its present form can only be dated reliably to the 16th century.

For me the absence of Kasthana in these significant records (on the caskets) of the time in question signal the probable upper limit of time where Kasthana can be taken to. It must also be noted that almost all early Kasthana swords are associated with gifts by King Rajasinghhe I. of Sithawaka who was the rival to King Dom Juan Dharmapala of Kotte who was the vassal king to the Portuguese.

The images depicted on the casket were historic events contemporary with the item and the artist. they depict kings and not Gods so there is no reason to portray “older” types of arms on this. though on some other references found among temple art it may be true.

Regards

Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Fernando, yes both caskets are included in the catalogue I copied the images from. I forgot to mention that it was from the second one. The image accuracy seem quite good judging from other elements depicted. so swords are also most probably accurate. In the second image at the top (plate 18) there are two panels in the upper row that depict gladiators. one pair carry a curious double curved sword and a strange plate like object instead of a shield. the swords in the second set seem straight and thin - sort of like rapiers and rather diminutive shields….

Ibrahiim- though there are many claims that Angam arts go back to Antiquity it is not based on solid evidence. no doubt there were fighting arts though time but the Angam in its present form can only be dated reliably to the 16th century.

For me the absence of Kasthana in these significant records (on the caskets) of the time in question signal the probable upper limit of time where Kasthana can be taken to. It must also be noted that almost all early Kasthana swords are associated with gifts by King Rajasinghhe I. of Sithawaka who was the rival to King Dom Juan Dharmapala of Kotte who was the vassal king to the Portuguese.

The images depicted on the casket were historic events contemporary with the item and the artist. they depict kings and not Gods so there is no reason to portray “older” types of arms on this. though on some other references found among temple art it may be true.

Regards

Prasanna

Salaams Prasanna, Thanks for that detail which as you note underpins the period around the time of Rajasinghe 1 rule as the apparent Kastane appearance. In brief for other readers an extract from wikepedia;

Quote.''Rajasinghe I (Sinhala:පළමුවන රාජසිංහ) [1] was a king of the Kingdom of Sitawaka from 1581 to 1593. He is known for his bravery. Born as Tikiri Banda to King Mayadunne of the Kingdom of Sitawaka, the name "Rajasinha" was given to him after a battle against Portuguese forces. Rajasinha means the King of Lions (or the Lion King).''Unquote.

No amount of (distant)research seemed to be able to uncover the martial art inclusion of the Kastane of an earlier date, thus, I thank you for the clarity on Angampora .. It again underlines the cloudy period we are attempting to see clearly ...I think the period you mention is a fair bracket for the Kastane's birth (1581 to 1593).

I would appreciate your view of the stone carving at post #120 comparing that to the Japanese Hasekura Tsunenaga weapon that he obtained in the Philipines noting that he, as a Samurai, may have appreciated the blade as genuine? ~ and if this was the case we have two virtually identical blades and grips which may be the early version of the Kastane ...In the case of the Warriors sword perhaps preferred without quillons (Vajra) and handguard..? If these blades were original form it poses the question where did that blade style come from? Was it possibly from the Storta?

We know the sword was a court sword, Royal favourite and a badge of office both in earlier and later periods...and initially for Sri Lankan military commanders then for various Mudalyer and civil service officers etc ...

Perhaps we are closer to seeing its earlier development and in considering the time scale when it was designed?:shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

... the swords in the second set seem straight and thin - sort of like rapiers and rather diminutive shields….
Yes, the thin swords ... besides other notable differences. These two are not fighting, like the other pair. Their general aspect also looks distinct ... 'hats', robes, faces. Only the 'sash' pending from the waist looks the same; a detail that prevents me from realizing they are Portuguese :o

[fernando]

... according to the other report (appr. 1687) the gifts presented to the Portuguese court consisted of a crown set with gems and a statue of massive gold representing Dharmapala (then about three years old) in natural height. after the fief -oath in effigy had been taken on behalf of this prince, Don Juan III of Portugal crowned the statue as a sign of acknowledgement of the succession to the throne” ...
So is the version narrated by Father Fernão Queiroz in his manuscript.

... yet no Kasthana swords can be observed in the collection depicted. even the royal sword used by King Buwanekabahu in his coronation seem to be a double edged blade of the common gladius type weapon of the time but longer. But it must be noted that the earliest specifically datable Kasthana swords are linked to the Mulleriyawela battle in 1559. ...


Still Alain Manneson Mallet in 'de l'Asie' section of his work dated 1683, depicts the King of Ceylon with a sword in nothing similar to a Kasthana; this considering that Khastanas belonged in the attire of Sinhalese novelty. Naturaly the author may be drawing the sword from his free mind, but when one looks at the depictions of Portuguese and Spanish Kings, details look pretty faithful.

.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Fernando, The figures you note on the Casket are really unusual in that the upper part of the dress is quite Portuguese while the lower part seems Sinhala. May be it is part of a jestering actors similar to the "Kolam" extant dance traditions which still contain elements that make fun of the British raj.

The King in the image included is King WImaladharmasuriya I, alias Konappu bandara alias Dom Joao of Austria- Son of one of King Rajasinghe I's generals who was salin by the King young Konappu escapes to Colombo and joins Portuguese and became excelled in battle under them becoming a captain in the Portuguese army; serving both in Goa and Ceilao. he then turned sides and coronated himself as King Wimaladharmasuriuya and became a formidable opponent of the Portuguese.

I include an image in which the King is in audience with Dutch Admiral Joris Van Spilbergen (published 1605) which is the original from which other copies seem to have been made. The detail in this seem believable and so should be the sword which is quite European. I am tempted to assume that the King retained a European style sword as he was trained in the Portuguese way of fighting and preferred a similar sword. :shrug:

Regards

Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Could the Kings Sword have been added later? It appears to be unnaturally densely hatched following hatching at ground near his left foot.. I suggest that, perhaps, this weapon was placed in retrospect and made to appear as European.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Prasanna, the more i search for the Kasthana, the more i come across the Calachurro.
Listen to what Constantino Sá de Miranda (1638) writes in his Saragoça Codice, folio 47R:

… in this pagoda place the régulos (chiefs) of those first days had their court under the name of Deynoura which means city of God, today called by the Portuguese Tanauaré from the name of a neighbor village where the dancers of this pagoda lived, and (still) also (they) do it with (term) corruption, because its proper (name) will be Natandauaré which in the Chingala language means where to dance, where excellent casting work is done, copper, silver and gold, like calachurro grips, knives, locks and other things.

We may conclude from here that the Calachurro existance is an undeniable fact ... and that its grip was metalic.
On the other hand i had a look to all 199 articles pages; and again no Kasthane mention.

The work where i picked this text from, is called "os Olhos do Rei" (Kings eyes) and has lots of interesting information on Ceylon, including very interesting period maps. Pity that it is not translated; i think you would find it interesting for your perusal.

.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Fernando, We know that the Sinhala texts use the term Kasthana as early as mid 1500's; yet as you say no reference to Kasthana in Portuguese texts. may be this is evidence that indicate that the origin of the name Kasthana did not have a Portuguese root and Portuguese used a different term to describe it.

The use of Calachurro hilts as an example of the excellence of casting skill would not only indicate that the Calachurro hilts were metal but was in some way a challenging task to cast. - Like a Kasthana hilt ??? :confused:

Hope one day would get to see the excellent material available to you- which sadly is rare down here. :)

Ibrahiim, the publication date for the source of the image is given as 1605 which may preclude later revisions. but a point to be noted is that the original image does not seem to have the side rings indicated in the later copies; and may resemble the more ancient type of Sinhala swords (similar to the ones shown in the Ivory casket.)

regards Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim, the publication date for the source of the image is given as 1605 which may preclude later revisions. but a point to be noted is that the original image does not seem to have the side rings indicated in the later copies; and may resemble the more ancient type of Sinhala swords (similar to the ones shown in the Ivory casket.)

regards Prasanna

Salaams Prasanna ..I would like to posit the following sub theory in respect of the Kasthane; I present my theory in several sections viz;

1.This is a home grown weapon. The king himself (King Rajasinghhe 1 reigned 1581 to 1593) ordered his workshops to design it...based upon a "golock style" of broad jungle blade with the respected hilt of zoomorphic form (the hilt more or less already existed in the region for example on the Pihae Kheata and on Javanese weapons) and initially with a crossguard more or less exactly as in the stone mural. (perhaps without scabbard, no handguard, no quillons) The date taken or suggested is near the start of his reign..about 1581..It is noted that he chose to assist him someone who could have influenced perhaps the nature of that weapon... from Southern India?

2. Quite soon after this the Vajra quillons were added though it seems clear they were not placed to block another sword but perhaps as balance/weight to the hilt or for decorative / religious purposes only. Further decoration included a handguard. The example is at the Sendai museum in Japan, thus, since it was purchased by Hasekura in about 1620 it may have been built around 1600?

3. The weapon then morphed in several ways and became a rank indicator worn by Sri Lankan troop leaders...as already described. The blades became narrower and more of a court sword item... Some weapons found their way to Europe and as displayed in the artwork on the Popham Armour in the Leeds Armoury...Some were straight others curved. The Kastane became the Mudalyers Sword worn by Sri Lankan leaders against the invader... and some would say it became the insignia of power.

4. Both Dutch and English Mudalyers (perhaps better considered as civil servants) wore the weapon and since it was tied to rank; The higher the official the more ornate the sword. During the Dutch period vast amounts of blades were imported by the VOC thus blade making in Sri Lanka greatly reduced...However Kastane continued to be worn right up to the end of the English period and beyond...and awarded to Mudalyers in the same way but in the EIC.

5. Reverse flow occured in influence onto other regional weapons including European dogheads plus early derivatives like the West African variant shown earlier.

It is interesting to note that perhaps the only European thing about the first Kastane was ..absolutely nothing ! It wasnt until the adoption of the handguard that any parallel can be drawn as to likeness to a European sword.

It is thus described above as initially a straight broad bladed battle sword and having changed with time into a court sword and badge of rank etc.
The Sri Lankan Kasthane. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Fernando, We know that the Sinhala texts use the term Kasthana as early as mid 1500's; yet as you say no reference to Kasthana in Portuguese texts. may be this is evidence that indicate that the origin of the name Kasthana did not have a Portuguese root and Portuguese used a different term to describe it.
The use of Calachurro hilts as an example of the excellence of casting skill would not only indicate that the Calachurro hilts were metal but was in some way a challenging task to cast. - Like a Kasthana hilt ??? :confused: ...
It is easy to support that the term Kasthana is not Portuguese; they were long gone by then. Besides, the word has no Portuguese characteristics, with its "K" letter and "th" spell. On the other hand we must remember that Calachurro is quoted by chroniclers as a name given by the locals, Lascarins for the case. We admit the usual corruption of the term to make it soundable in portuguese, which indeed so happens, but the term root is Sinhalese, whatever its local spell was. We may go into the fantasy of the name Calachurro being later changed to Kasthana due to its elevation from a field weapond to symbolic status, also influenced by dialect differences.
But then, i am potentialy talking nonsense.

... Hope one day would get to see the excellent material available to you- which sadly is rare down here. :) ...
Well, you can have in any case the paper i have quoted, written in portuguese; who knows some day you manage to submit it to translation. In the meantime you may enjoy period drawings of Adam's peak, the Buddha footprint and multiple plants of Pagodas and fortifications; even the area where the Vedas lived.
As the PDF was too heavy and beyond forum allowance, i took the libverty to send it to your email address. I hope it gets there.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:) Interesting bit of bed head carving showing zoomorphic characters ... and below that the King inspecting Mudalyers/leaders late in the English period.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[fernando]

... We may go into the fantasy of the name Calachurro being later changed to Kasthana ... But then, i am potentialy talking nonsense...
Obviously i am talking nonsense. You just reminded us a couple posts ago that the term Kasthana appears in texts since the mid 1550's.
But considering the coexistance of both swords, each one with its purpose ...
Have a (new) look at the sword used at Gannoruwa Battle by King Rajasinghe II, back in 1638. Practicaly no decorations, no 'false quillons', a reasonably wide and sharp edged blade ...
Its total length is 62.02 cm.
João Ribeiro mentions that the calachurro was two and half palms long (55 cms.); he might wish to exclude that it wasn't six whole palms (66 cms.).
May we admit that by 1638 the Kasthana was already and only a rank adornment.
King Rajasinghe would then need a more operational sword to go to war.
Could this be a Calachurro ?

.

[derek]

Here are a few pics of the two I have owned. The more complete hilt example is still in my possession

[Kurt]

Here are two from my collection.
Kurt

[derek]

Very nice!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I was studying the sunburst design in Sri Lankan work ... I refer to the sworls or sunburst activity in the lionesque maine or serpents gills (depending how you view it) at the throat of zoomorphic beast forming the hilt...See below.
:shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

... Which certainly have a value ratio far greater than countless perorations which, although containing some peripheral (but not intrinsic) info, make us ponder on their immense space occupied in the archives versus their juice, after squeezing them.
It is obvious that despite Jim’s industrious initiative to transfer this theme to a new thread under a multiple (triple) range of attributions, the nuclear point remains the same: the origin, date and outer influences in the Kastane. However it is not the hammering on the same nail head, time and time without count, that will bring light to the subject. No one forgets that certain approaches were repeated a zillion times … sometimes with the very same wording.
Resuming that, taking in consideration the recurrent (massacred) pre and post Portuguese ‘key’ to the matter ...
It can not be questioned that the Kastane was born in Ceylon … and not result of a ‘joint venture’.
The probabilities that it had western influences along time, namely Portuguese, it could only be in the hilt, namely the lower recurved quillons... the ricasso a giveaway.
The blade in itself would never be Portuguese, simply because they were not blade makers. Actually the Kastane blades seen out there are so varied that i have already seen one made in brass.
Assuming that Portuguese sword designs were common to other Peoples … Spanish, Venetians and so, we may view these probable influences, for the matter, as being Portuguese, because they were indeed the first to actually reside and mix cultures with the locals.
But obviously the admissible influence of Portuguese, for one, is a hypothesis that would be easily knocked down by evidential appearance of the missing link: example/s of Kastane prior to this period ... no matter how different or of how many different forms they timely were.
Based on this eternal fait divers and talking about (Portuguese) influences, i feel entitled to upload here a hybrid that i have pictured in one of my library books, which belongs in the collection of its author, titled HOMENS ESPADAS E TOMATES, by Rainer Daehnhardt, whom owns one of the largest collections of weapons and documentation covering, among other, the Portuguese discoveries period.

.


Salaams Fernando, Your post at #80.

I have to point out the nature of this sword which has nothing to do with Sri Lankan weapons since it is the preferred design having a lions head of the kings of such tribes in West Africa ~ Benin and Dahomey regions.

The author of the sword write up and picture(Rainer Daehnhardt) forces the description in such a way as to be Certain that this weapon sailed with the Portuguese to the far flung corners of the Indian Ocean where it is imagined it took on the mantle ...or hilt... of the Kastane...or that it in any way was influenced by that weapon. I would suggest that "It most Certainly did not". See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=220003&posted=1#post220003

I further cast doubt upon the claim that this is a Christian cross. Again the reference above refers. It is more likely to be Voodoo inspired.

[fernando]

Salaams Fernando, Your post at #80.

I have to point out the nature of this sword which has nothing to do with Sri Lankan weapons ...

Boa tarde Senhor Balooshi,
Either my alzheimer level is rather intense or this issue has already been approached and, a consensual perspective was established, for i would not resurrect it unless i had some fresh news to produce. I am afraid that, if i tried to remodel old beaten material, just keep the present thead going, i would be, as we say here, raining on the wet. In the other thread where plausibitiy of writers description was at stake we assumed that often true sounding assumptions miss actual veracity, like the case of this specific sword examle, which was ascertained within the hour, if i well remember
So .. let me keep consistent :shrug:.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Fernando, Thank you very much for your reply. I am so pleased you agree that the offending weapon description has no place in this thread nor in others ... and that since it pollutes the story in several threads with its spurious reference to weapons of West Africa; Benin and Dahomey regions in particular having certainly travelled to the Indian Ocean in Portuguese Battleships...etc etc ..therefor they must be influenced by Kastane (Sinhalese Armoury weapons) that those pages too should be purged of such material. It is nonsense.

I repeat your advice ...Quote"For as much as authors claim their knowledge and state their opinions as if they were facts, lack of substantial evidence often forms their strong adversary".Unquote.

On the subject of raining in the wet... What new evidence have you supported in this thread ? We have here and in the sister thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=220000#post220000 massive support of clear inter regional influence from mainly South India but also inter religious mirroring of architecture concerning the Kastane linked to Budhist and Hindu designs which are not affected by Portuguese constructs nor does it appear to have any link at all with the Nimcha... and by the way the other spurious sword from your author, a Nimcha Sword from Zanzibar, I recall is also wrongly written up with the detail of a Moroccan Nimcha... :shrug: Should we perhaps not be more careful with our referencing material?

I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

You are absolutely right, Ibrahiim,
I should have restrained my reflex to reply to your post.
But, as the late Rodríguez de la Fuente used to say; man is the only animal that stumbles twice on the same rock :shrug: .

[David]

I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?
I would be careful identifying the equilateral cross as being solely "Voodoo geometry" Ibrahiim. (Btw, the more proper term would be Vodun or Vodoun. While Certain diaspora sects in Louisiana use the term, Voodoo carries far to much bad Hollywood movie baggage with it).This symbol is both ancient and prolific and can be found amongst cultures spread all across the globe with various meanings. In many cases it represents a solar symbology, the four directions, the four elements, etc. Depends on the culture. You are correct that in West African cultures such as the Ewe and Fon it represents the crossroads, the meeting of the spirit world and the material. However, the equilateral cross also has a place in Christian iconography as well in many variations. So while it is most logical to assume that the equilateral cross when found on a solely African weapon most probably does not have a Christian affiliation, it is not so clear as to the meaning and purpose of such a symbol when it appears on weapons outside West African spheres.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I would be careful identifying the equilateral cross as being solely "Voodoo geometry" Ibrahiim. (Btw, the more proper term would be Vodun or Vodoun. While Certain diaspora sects in Louisiana use the term, Voodoo carries far to much bad Hollywood movie baggage with it).This symbol is both ancient and prolific and can be found amongst cultures spread all across the globe with various meanings. In many cases it represents a solar symbology, the four directions, the four elements, etc. Depends on the culture. You are correct that in West African cultures such as the Ewe and Fon it represents the crossroads, the meeting of the spirit world and the material. However, the equilateral cross also has a place in Christian iconography as well in many variations. So while it is most logical to assume that the equilateral cross when found on a solely African weapon most probably does not have a Christian affiliation, it is not so clear as to the meaning and purpose of such a symbol when it appears on weapons outside West African spheres.


Salaams and thank you David for your input which I agree with entirely with the following caveat; The tribal leaders in West Africa very quickly adopted the Crucifix and would appear to have inserted the Cross into their broad leaf shaped swords probably from the Portuguese and as I have just outlined in

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002 at #20

I believe this "Religious" geometry would have suggested to them a special extra degree of power over their people ... Your Vodun and Vodoun are correct terminology although I had researched the New Orleans and Haiti cultural aspects and Voodoo seemed linked which I think it is in part and shown by the diagrams at the other thread and came with the slaves from West Africa. Your indication about the cross roads symbolic meaning is particularly welcome and underscores what I have already written.

[fernando]

...So while it is most logical to assume that the equilateral cross when found on a solely African weapon most probably does not have a Christian affiliation, it is not so clear as to the meaning and purpose of such a symbol when it appears on weapons outside West African spheres.
Several Congolese swords are found with such crosses in their quillon discs, David. I hardly see these perforations as symbols originated (different than adopted) by Kongo Africans. Amazingly a scholar (Wanynn 1961,65) even names them as Greek crosses.
The order of Christus, for one, was also present in the Kongo kingdom and had swords in their possession as a sign of status (Schellings 1949, 12).
The Kongo kingdom was defined by the mutation process where European elements were incorporated in domestic culture.
Portuguese arrived in Congo in 1482 and soon converted the local monarchs to Christianty. The first monarch to be baptized was Nzinga-a-Nkuwu, with Christian name João I in 1491. The process went smoothly because the Christian elements called for domestic ideas on their own ideology. Afonso I (1509-1540), the secong king converted to christianty, had seen this well, and confirmed his power for the Europeans and for the domestic population by the setting up with catholicism. The European elite symbol, the sword, was taken over. Together with the crucifix, these two European elements have certainly incorporated most of the habits of the Bakongo (Wannyn 1961, 67).
Deceased Kongo monarchs were found buried with these swords in a Christian attitude.
The symbolism behind the sword for the Bakongo is reduced to the domestic ideas concerning iron and their own theology which was reflected in the form of the sword. Also the rituals which were carried out with the swords reflected this symbolism; in any case the swords came initially from Europe. At the time of the Portugese, European swords were used. Later these became scarcer and domestic copies started being made.
The last soba to have a portuguese Christian name was Soba Nkanga-a-Lukeni, Garcia II (1641-1661). This adds to two centuries of culture blending.


.

[fernando]

Kubur, your PM box is full.

[David]

Several Congolese swords are found with such crosses in their quillon discs, David. I hardly see these perforations as symbols originated (different than adopted) by Kongo Africans. Amazingly a scholar (Wanynn 1961,65) even names them as Greek crosses.
The order of Christus, for one, was also present in the Kongo kingdom and had swords in their possession as a sign of status (Schellings 1949, 12).
The Kongo kingdom was defined by the mutation process where European elements were incorporated in domestic culture.
Portuguese arrived in Congo in 1482 and soon converted the local monarchs to Christianty. The first monarch to be baptized was Nzinga-a-Nkuwu, with Christian name João I in 1491. The process went smoothly because the Christian elements called for domestic ideas on their own ideology. Afonso I (1509-1540), the secong king converted to christianty, had seen this well, and confirmed his power for the Europeans and for the domestic population by the setting up with catholicism. The European elite symbol, the sword, was taken over. Together with the crucifix, these two European elements have certainly incorporated most of the habits of the Bakongo (Wannyn 1961, 67).
Deceased Kongo monarchs were found buried with these swords in a Christian attitude.
The symbolism behind the sword for the Bakongo is reduced to the domestic ideas concerning iron and their own theology which was reflected in the form of the sword. Also the rituals which were carried out with the swords reflected this symbolism; in any case the swords came initially from Europe. At the time of the Portugese, European swords were used. Later these became scarcer and domestic copies started being made.
The last soba to have a portuguese Christian name was Soba Nkanga-a-Lukeni, Garcia II (1641-1661). This adds to two centuries of culture blending.
Fernando, there is certainly no doubt that Christianity made inroads on the African continent early on in the 15th century and that various African cultures did indeed accept it and work Christian iconography into their cultural artifacts. However, i was addressing Ibrahiim's assertions in my post, specifically references to "Voodoo geometry" and his link in his post #159 to images of the Haitian Vodoun vévé for Papa Legba, the Lwa of the crossroads. Vodun is more specific to the Dahomey Kingdom than the Konga Kingdom. While i remarked that the equilateral cross has many pre-Christian occurrences all over the world and is intact a symbol of the the crossroads in parts of African as well as the diaspora, vévé themselves, the practice of drawing these Lwa symbols on the ground with flour for ritual purpose is one that developed in Haiti and other diaspora countries, not Mother Africa herself, so the Legba crossroads symbol Ibrahiim posted has little bearing on this topic. However, in Africa this equilateral cross symbol was in use in pre-Christian days. Once Christianized i am sure that it took on a different meaning an purpose, but wherever one religion supplants another there is often some hold over to previous belief systems and meanings can be a bit fuzzy to interpret. There are also numerous syncretic sects throughout Africa that combine Christianity with traditional African religions. But when i wrote it is "most logical to assume that the equilateral cross when found on a solely African weapon most probably does not have a Christian affiliation" i was referring to weapons from cultures that were purely African and had not fully converted to Christian ways. Either way i believe it is still difficult to tell the exact intent and purpose of the equilateral cross when it appears on these swords.

[fernando]

Good enough, David :cool:.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have to say ...or should I say point out? That both these complex answers on the subject of Crosses are on completely the wrong thread. :shrug: My advice would be that the correct thread is ~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002

~ where Crosses are being aired relevant to West African swords.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

An interesting gift from Russia to Sri Lanka was made in the form of a previously lost sword now returned....and gifted to the National Museum.

[David]

I have to say ...or should I say point out? That both these complex answers on the subject of Crosses are on completely the wrong thread. :shrug: My advice would be that the correct thread is ~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002

~ where Crosses are being aired relevant to West African swords.
LOL! Well, I have to say...it was you Ibrahiim, who raised the topic when you revived this old thread in your post #159. You placed the link to that thread and wrote:
I further cast doubt upon the claim that this is a Christian cross. Again the reference above refers. It is more likely to be Voodoo inspired.
You further press this question in post #161:
I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?
So if you truly think our responses are on the wrong thread you might want to ask yourself why you continue to encourage the discussion here. ;) :rolleyes:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

LOL! Well, I have to say...it was you Ibrahiim, who raised the topic when you revived this old thread in your post #159. You placed the link to that thread and wrote:
I further cast doubt upon the claim that this is a Christian cross. Again the reference above refers. It is more likely to be Voodoo inspired.
You further press this question in post #161:
I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?
So if you truly think our responses are on the wrong thread you might want to ask yourself why you continue to encourage the discussion here. ;) :rolleyes:

David Thank you for posting your detailed work on the cross situation albeit on the wrong thread...which I hope can be remedied smartly.

Although it is plain to see that I was originally writing in context not out of it. In fact it was quite relevant as I was looking back with the thought of damage control in mind and to correct anything I felt needed attention... The West African Machette is clearly in that category since in view of post at #80. placed on this thread. it is a clearly out of sync. picture with spurious (at best) detail about West African/Portuguese Sinhalese influence unless you agree with the proposition that is?

But it is good that at least you now recognize that the Cross discussion belongs on another thread as it is relevant to West African detail...On the other thread in fact you will see clearly that I concur with the idea of the Portuguese influence and place my own research behind that premise... although I doubt much of the constructed work by others that the influence is Pharoaic or because it came down the trans Saharan highway..

SEE CORRECT thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002.

I do not encourage discussion here on this subject ...it is the wrong thread unless you are deliberate in placing it / chasing it here...? The threads are a mess because of this misplacement. Look at it from a logical viewpoint of library content...?

Whilst there is excellent detail on the said posts they are woefully misplaced. Can a consensus not be arrived at to sort this raveled mix up out?

[David]

Rather than hack the player how about focussing on the message... Although it is plain to see that I was originally writing in context not out of it. In fact it was quite relevant in view of post at #80. placed on this thread. a clearly out of sinc. picture with spurious (at bast) detail about West African/Portuguese Sinhalese influence unless you agree with the proposition that is?

But it is good that at least you now recognize that the Cross discussion belongs on another thread as it is relevant to West African detail...

SEE CORRECT thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002.

I do not encourage discussion here on this subject ...it is the wrong thread unless you are deliberate in placing it / chasing it here...? The threads are a mess because of this misplacement. Look at it from a logical viewpoint of library content...

Whilst there is excellent detail on the said posts they are woefully misplaced. Can a consensus not be arrived at to sort this raveled mix up out?
Ibrahiim, everything i have written here is in direct response to information YOU have brought up within the context of THIS thread. I have no interest whatsoever in continuing this little back and forth we are currently engaged in nor any interest in transferring my comments to another thread where you believe it would be more appropriately placed. This "raveled mix-up" is entirely yours my friend. You can accept it and continue or simply move along. Thanks for playing. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim, everything i have written here is in direct response to information YOU have brought up within the context of THIS thread. I have no interest whatsoever in continuing this little back and forth we are currently engaged in nor any interest in transferring my comments to another thread where you believe it would be more appropriately placed. This "raveled mix-up" is entirely yours my friend. You can accept it and continue or simply move along. Thanks for playing. :)

Sir, You reverse away from discussion but delight in hacking the player not the ball...? You are in a spotlight here and refuse to even take the field. It is a shame. Your lack of interest is noted. I will indeed take this on myself.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THE KASTANE . Its Architecture.

I present here an interesting write up on a sold item see http://www.icollector.com/A-FINE-PRESENTATION-SRI-LANKAN-KASTANE-SWORD_i15525534 where it states~

Quote"An exceptional example of classic form, wrought entirely of silver. The hilt elaborately chiseled with scrollwork, the pommel a fully-modeled makara head with ruby eyes, the guard with five further monsterheads, and the face of a fanged demon on the knucklebow. The lightly-curved, single-edged blade with blunt ricasso. In its finely embellished silver scabbard decorated en suite with the hilt, the terminal likewise formed as a monster head, and inscribed, MUDALIYAR B.P. AMERASINGHE. With its handwrought silver chain baldric terminating in a large filigreed bead. Second half of the 19th century.The term 'mudaliyar' is a Tamil honorific, generally applied to a high-ranking member of the military or government. Overall length 60 cm. Condition I." Unquote.

The proviso here being that the use of words by auctioneers and museums may vary considerably in describing the Deities and that a sympathetic viewpoint has already been adopted here on thread. Interesting is the silver chain baldric although something not noted by the auctioneers is The Humanoid Face, outward facing, sometimes refered to as The Humanoid Crocodile on the Knuckleguard which is another Deity not always present but every bit as fascinating. I think this is the Kirtimukha. With this in mind readers may note the extraordinary descriptive given at #49 to which I would add; Lions Head form... in many examples.

Unusually the so called Quilon structures(Vajra) are wide in this late model as opposed to earlier form which are close together. In this case has the European style of Quilon been adopted? Personally and since this was not a fighting weapon (court and badge of office only) I do not think so but it is noted in the margin for others to comment.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

In previous discussions, there has been the illustration(attached) with an entry in a book by Mr. Rainer Daehnhardt, which shows a sword (cutlass) with a cutlass type blade distinctive to Dahomey, West Africa. What is notable here is that its hilt is remarkably similar to the Sinhalese kastane with lionhead.
It has been suggested that this hybrid may reveal possible links between these vastly distant locations or possible developmental influences.
Actually I believe it is simply a notation to the similarity to a Ceylonese hilt.

It is well known to us as students of ethnographica that such instances of items of distinctly regional or cultural form may turn up occasionally in situations where they are completely incongruent in areas far distant and disconnected from their point of origin.

This seems a case of the union of a foreign or 'exotic' hilt being joined to a Dahomean blade in the oft used convention of such hybridization with diplomatically oriented swords.

Some time ago in discussions here there was a case of what appears a hanger type sword of kastane form (but has been rehilted it seems without the lionhead) and shown described as a 'dragon sword', found in British Columbia in Canada. This was discussed in a book titled "Similkeen: The Pictograph Country" (Bill Barlee,1978) and other research revealed an inventory of 1836 of the Northwest Co. which included 12 'dragon swords'.
("Rocky Mountain Outfit, 1836, Fontanelle, Fitzpatrick &Co.", papers of the American Fur Company, Reel 7, vols. Y & Z, Missouri Historical Society).

It is compelling to think of these as examples of 'kastane' which had arrived somehow in this unusual setting, with the resounding question of 'how did they get here?'.

In one explanation, it is noted there was an ill fated Spanish expedition into these regions mid 18th century (suggesting the term 'turtle people' in native legend there referred to the cuirasses of the Spaniards. It is conceivable that the Spanish had acquired some of these Ceylonese swords via their colonies in the Philippines, as trade entrepots there of course would have networked with others trading in Ceylon.
* shown is the route of the Hasekura embassy of 17th c. where a kastane was acquired from the King of Spain, either in Spain or Philippines.

However, the trade company case with 12 swords listed as 'dragon' swords seems much more likely conditionally. Some suggestion has been made that the term 'dragon' may be a contracted use of the term 'dragoon' of course referring to the heavy cavalry sabres. There is always that possibility, except that no other examples of these dragoon swords are known in these contexts. The was a favor for shorter weapons such as hangers, and the 'broadswords' listed were actually short, heavy artillery sidearms (the term broadsword was still generically used in those times).


Returning to the potential origins of the Sinhalese kastane form, an interesting example of dagger/short sword is shown in "Arts of the Muslim Knight", Furasiyya Foundation, 2008 (p.206, #197). It is listed as Deccani, probably Bahamanid dynasty and of 15th century.
It seems that these Deccani influences, the downturned quillons with Makara heads, and the general configuration of the hilt pommel and knuckleguard are remarkably compelling as a proto-kastane form.

These influences diffusing via Tamils to the east, provided a compelling conduit with their trade and diplomatic contacts into Ceylon with the central kingdom of Kandy. The artisans and craftsman of this kingdom were well known for their work on the piha kaetta knives so key in royal regalia, and apparently development of the kastane into a sword of status as well.
Here again, certain elements and influences were syncretically combined in the form of hilt we know existed before c. 1600.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post. I remember the Hasekura adventure and how he acquired the weapons in the Philipines. One of my questions about the so called Kastane he purchased is still being looked at since the blade is non typical and although a quillons style is fitted the blade seems to be much wider...similar in a way to the stone frieze blade. It (the Sendai Museum weapon) looks suspiciously like a Chinese blade.

Regarding the West African Dahomey sword ..or the write up with the weapon... it is conveniently some would say willy-nilly even... given the write up as having certainly bounced back from a deployment with the Portuguese Battle Fleet from Sri Lanka and having influence from their armoury... from the Kastane . This is doubtful since why would a machette tribal sword make such a journey and be given this most peculiar treatment? It appears as a flambouyant idea straight from the head of the author without any proof but as a seemingly fanciful notion.

On the other hand concerning the Cross cut into the broad leaf style of blade; it is plausible that some shades of Portuguese influence in their long association in the region may have occurred and wall art in caves bears this out to some degree. Black Crab swords with similar crosses are further evidence of such liaison but as for the weapons going off on tour with the Portuguese Armada for me it is a bridge too far...That does not rule out a hilt being brought back from such an adventure and possibly being presented to a chief... but that is a very different notion. If the hilt is not a bring back from the Indian Ocean then where is it from?... I have suggested that this is either a home grown carved big cat favoured by chieftains in Dahomey regions or perhaps a Storta Hilt perhaps as a gift. Looking at the skills of the Ivory carvers in the region I suggest that this is the origin. Home grown in other words.

Your inclusion of the South Indian sword from arts of the Muslim Knights is amazing. Here is a direct link in form from Sri Lanka's nearest neighbour even though the style of religion was slightly different the mirroring onto this weapon is clear and one which I would base my next survey... and refer to your excellent addition here. The net result of such findings although I need to show the architecture as wholly linked regionally it would in my view cast serious doubt on external influence and positive proof of the Kastane as entirely Home Grown (exempt the European later blade replacements)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here I bring on all the architectural details in picture form onto this thread from the other Sri Lankan epic.

First I make reference to #176 above where the weapons from arts of the Muslim Knights are shown thus a search light is shining on the South Indian weaponry shown there by Jim from

Quote"Arts of the Muslim Knight", Furasiyya Foundation, 2008 (p.206, #197). It is listed as Deccani, probably Bahamanid dynasty and of 15th century." Unquote.

Viewers may see a degree of Religious linkage from the adjacent Buddhist cultures and in particular from the main source India. Others may see the fact that The Great Buddha himself is said to have visited the country and that although there are different types of the religion they flowed like a tide in and out with large periods of time in one form or the other.

What the pictorial below shows is the obvious transition of architecture on the Kastane from Southern India and also mirrored from Tibetan weapons either direct or bounced in via Indian form.

The quillons are probably not quilons per se...They are Vajra and important tools and insignia in the Buddhist religion said to have been carried by The Great Buddha into Tibet personally and since the Kastana we know ...was never a Battle Field weapon these thunderbolts or diamonds that they represent were never meant to be for fighting but as badge of rank or court swords. For this reason it matters little that the finials comprising dragon heads are invariably closed on the blade in the narrowed throat and in direct contrast with any European type.

The deity comprising the main hilt is powerful represented by a Lion or Makara, hand carved and studded with precious stones.

The Tail represents another revered creature; The Peacock.

In the handguard we see several creatures including a Humanoid faced crocodile, probably Kurtimucha, in the Robert Hales picture at left where he also notes the provenance of the middle picture as Mysore or Madras.

Other Deities spill down the hand guard onto the cross guard area in typical Yali, dragon or monster form.

The scabbard is resplendent in decorative style culminating occasionally in a decorated ball perhaps a pearl or sometimes another zoomorphic arrangement.

Conclusion. Overall I see no external European involvement whatsoever moreover every inch of the Kastane cries out as Buddhist/Hindu style. The majority of influence appears from India thus it is from there that I suggest the form evolved. Tibet also offers strong reflections but it is not known to what extent each is measured. Except for late European blades being refitted to these exorbitant and magnificent hilts I confirm the importance of this sword as being solely produced in Sri Lankan workshops with no input visible from European sources.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Hi Jim,
I see that the image of the Benin sword belonging in the collection of Mister Rainer Daehnhardt makes its millionth appearance. Should i ever realize this picture would become viral, i wouldn't take part in such promotion as, despite the eventuality of its owner being so proud to possess such famous item, he might as well not be so fond of what has been written about him, for every time such picture shows up together with its text, as it comes in the book, it is tagged with a string of rejections in a mode of unpleasant, even caustic, adjectives and connotations, even occasionally based on misinterpretations, not making a distinction between the role of either book neither post author ... notwithstanding the recurrent assumption that the sword description belongs only to the book author and, as personally opined, its veracity being admitedly susceptible of implausibility, as timely quoted such not being an uncommon phenomenon. For i guess that, the only way for this picture appearance to cease being repeatedly tied to the whipping pole, is to humbly discourage its posting.


-

[Jim McDougall]

WOW!
Actually the sword Mr. Daehnhardt has in his book is a most valid example, and serves well to illustrate the apparently numerous examples of hybrid or rehilted instances of these very distinct hilts.

Swords are famously known for being remounted, and married in often incongruent assemblies as they are refurbished with changing hands as heirlooms, trade items, diplomatic hybrids or any number of cases.

It seems to me that this sword is likely one such example. Every author has examples or references in their books that may be reconsidered in later times as new evidence or examples are found. Actually every author hopes and expects to be corrected as others work forward researching their subject matter and text. Most include notices in their forwards in the publication that they are responsible for any errors or material which may be disproven or reconsidered.
Consider that in my case as a writer, clearly most of what I express as comment or observation is quickly critiqued, whether refuted or rebutted and many times even agreed with..either way I think of it as constructive and often helpful in learning much in the manner I describe.

I do not agree that the Daehnhardt example should be censored out of dialogue regarding the Sinhalese kastane, as I have noted it is an example of hybrid in the spectrum of these hilts in other contexts.

The 'Sendai' example of c.1613 in Japan is another example of this distinct hilt form with what appears a 'foreign' blade type. Again, it serves as an example of this hilt in terminus post quem with well established provenance.

[fernando]

You are an eternal cavalier Jim,
Critisizing or rebuting the same reference once or twice doesn't make it an endless target for pneumatic hammer activities :shrug: . You are a writer and i ain't; so i am not in a position to actually consider whether all kinds of critiques are easily absorbable. Not that bringing up the same remarks again and again becomes tedious but ... i say no more :shrug:.

I did like your approach on the syncretism phenomena when attending to the melange of European and African symbology. I am translating a Belgium paper on Congolese colonial swords compiled from various researchers and it all appoints that the perforated cross on the quillon discs of swords introduced by Portuguese would be one of such archetypes.


.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Jim, your post at 180 states The 'Sendai' example of c.1613 in Japan is another example of this distinct hilt form with what appears a 'foreign' blade type. Again, it serves as an example of this hilt in terminus post quem with well established provenance.[/QUOTE]
************************************************** *********

Salaams Jim, It is indeed the case that the Sendai Museum example is something of an anomaly since the blade is probably oriental; perhaps Chinese as the detail from the thread shows. This is absolutely not Sri Lankan and is a heavy Machete form blade. This is not entirely unexpected in a location like the Filipines where a ship borne weapon rehilted and likely as a ships cutlass type was discovered in the market place by Hasekura ..It is without scabbard... not surprisingly. It therefor joins the story somewhat in the shade since it is a rehilt and out of area at that. It is, however, an interesting diversion.

In fact it is recorded here ...

Japan in Philippine history
By Ambeth R. Ocampo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
10:42 pm | Thursday, October 31st, 2013

Quote"Hasekura Tsunenaga was a Japanese samurai who was received in Mexico, Spain, the Vatican, and the Philippines as a Spanish ambassador in a romantic seven-year journey. He was given an audience by King Philip III in Madrid, was baptized at the Real Monasterio de Descalzas Reales where the Duke Lerma stood as ninong, then was received by Pope Paul V and granted honorary citizenship by the City of Rome.

Hasekura’s last stop was Manila, where he wrote a cheerful letter to his son in 1619 saying he was shopping and preparing to sail home. The original letter is displayed in the Sendai City Museum together with an Indonesian kris and a dagger from Sri Lanka that Hasekura acquired in the Philippines.

(Not in the exhibition are archival documents on the Hasekura mission from the Archivo General de Indias in Sevilla written during Hasekura’s stay in Manila: an inventory of presents sent to the Shogun by the Governor-General of the Philippines.)

There is an interesting background description to the Kris at forum on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ht=kris+kastane by A.G. MAISEY that is essential background reading and from which I have recovered the picture below.

See also http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return;

Quote"Sendai City Museum Hasekura reported his travels to Date Masamune upon his arrival in Sendai. It is recorded that he remitted a portrait of Pope Paul V, a portrait of himself in prayer, and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines, all preserved today in the Sendai City Museum."Unquote

Shown below clearly the tip of the Sendai Museum example showing typical Chinese decoration...on a broad heavy Machete style.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

On reflection my impression is of an oriental broad Machete blade of the style Yu Tao Dao better known as a Fish Head or Shark Head Sabre. Here is an example to compare shown below with a white hilt;

The monster fish decoration can be seen near the tip of the Sendai example and compares below with decoration at the throat of the weapon placed by The Late Vandoo (RIP) at thread on another Chinese weapon.

I believe the fish monster is the Makara and support that with detail at http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/2016/08/bharhut-besnagar-sculptural-makara.html where about 20 examples exist some going back to Chinese cave detai in the 5th Century AD.

The stone Makara carving is evidence of the Makara form on the sendai example etc. The big picture is Chinese whilst the smaller is in Lucknow Museum.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, , once again your tenacious online research amazes me!
I have been going through these old threads, notes and references, and trying to regain my footing in these discussions over the years.

It seems that the manner of investigative study into the history of many weapon forms becoming an often complex, tedious and frustrating process involving many side roads, red herrings and misconceptions. In looking back at the discussions here, we can see many losing patience with the often highly detailed presentations of support and evidence. However, it is through these kinds of discussions that so much is achieved in better understanding the history of these arms.

I had honestly forgotten the nature of the 'Sendai' example, and that it was indeed a Chinese blade with the mythical beast head situated in the blade decoration. It is clearly coupled with a hilt of Ceylonese character, and as noted was apparently acquired as a souvenier along with a keris in Manila near the end of the Keisho mission about 1619.

I think the point of these comparisons is mostly noting the widespread influence of these distinctively styled hilts, whether directly from examples actually of Sri Lankan origin, or variant interpretations which seem to have occurred in many other cultural spheres.

We know that in Holland in the 17th c, numerous hilts on hangers and other edged weapons reflect such influences with mythical beasts and figures that appear Asian , some very much like the Buddhist style lion heads. In these times the portrait of Alexander Popham wearing what appears to be a kastane in about mid 17th century suggests the favor for such exotica among merchants and as status oriented dress weapons.

It is typically difficult, at least for me, to determine exactly what most of these mythical creatures actually represent as there seems to be a degree of latitude in how they are interpreted. However it appears that the range of interpretation has resulted from the artistic perception of local artisans who are fashioning from the influence of the varied forms which have diffused into many areas.

In once again looking to the 'Benin' sword, which is a interesting example of such interpretation, it appears of course that this indirect influence may have had some part in the zoomorphic form of the hilt. As Ibrahiim has well pointed out, the Dahomean ruler Glele (1858-1898) did use the lion as one of his leitmotif. It would seem that most of the ceremonial swords would carry such symbolism on the blade rather than in zoomorphic form on the hilt. This is where I think the 'Cingalese' influence suggested by Daehnhardt
derives (interestingly the example with gold lion on the blade Ibrahiim showed has similar blade with mid rib at forte) and the openwork cross and the downturned quillons reflect Portuguese influence.

In both instances, these influences are traditionally applied as they refer to influences long since removed from Dahomean regions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall]Ibrahiim, , once again your tenacious online research amazes me!
I have been going through these old threads, notes and references, and trying to regain my footing in these discussions over the years.

It seems that the manner of investigative study into the history of many weapon forms becoming an often complex, tedious and frustrating process involving many side roads, red herrings and misconceptions. In looking back at the discussions here, we can see many losing patience with the often highly detailed presentations of support and evidence. However, it is through these kinds of discussions that so much is achieved in better understanding the history of these arms.

I had honestly forgotten the nature of the 'Sendai' example, and that it was indeed a Chinese blade with the mythical beast head situated in the blade decoration. It is clearly coupled with a hilt of Ceylonese character, and as noted was apparently acquired as a souvenier along with a keris in Manila near the end of the Keisho mission about 1619.

I think the point of these comparisons is mostly noting the widespread influence of these distinctively styled hilts, whether directly from examples actually of Sri Lankan origin, or variant interpretations which seem to have occurred in many other cultural spheres.

We know that in Holland in the 17th c, numerous hilts on hangers and other edged weapons reflect such influences with mythical beasts and figures that appear Asian , some very much like the Buddhist style lion heads. In these times the portrait of Alexander Popham wearing what appears to be a kastane in about mid 17th century suggests the favor for such exotica among merchants and as status oriented dress weapons.

It is typically difficult, at least for me, to determine exactly what most of these mythical creatures actually represent as there seems to be a degree of latitude in how they are interpreted. However it appears that the range of interpretation has resulted from the artistic perception of local artisans who are fashioning from the influence of the varied forms which have diffused into many areas.




Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post.

I would now like to play the devils advocate in regard to the Sendai Museum "Kastane" and aim to prove that this is indeed an early Sinhalese fighting weapon; purely and almost 100%.

References;
A. http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.com/...ral-makara.html
B. POST # 182 AND 183 of this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=220663&posted=1#post220663
C. The sister Thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14998
D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga#cite_note-25
E. http://www.japanartsandcrafts.com/8212.html


In following up on the decorative Makara design on the Sendai blade it struck me that there was no difference in the Indian Makara and the Srilankan ...I was further concerned that a blade expert, Hasekura, a Samurai, had not noted anything awry in the blade chosen when he was on the return journey and in the Filipines, Manila where they docked in 20 June 1618 and remained there for about 2 years. After the purchases of the two swords as presents he wrote from there to his son.

In describing the Sendai weapon I must point out that it is correct Kastane form with hilt and vajra quillons as well as knuckleguard and is decorated on a broad machete style blade with a Makara decoration toward the tip. The decoration is typical of Sri Lankan and Indian form and echoed with similar but not exact Makara across the Buddhist Hindu spectrum. The blade shape is not known precisely. The closest Makara resemblance is at the Museum in Lahore as a stone block engraving carved on a solid rock slab. Thus most of the weapon is Sri Lankan with the question of what is the blade? yet to be proven.

Since the decoration is Makara and of the Sri Lankan form it, the blade, although not yet identified must be considered as Sri Lankan. As a samurai and blade specialist Hasekura must have known that this was a blade of some importance and probably not a rehilt.

As a matter of interest most Kastane only appeared in the 18th C and with the Dutch to begin with...and the civil servants or Mudaliers as badge of rank insignia and court swords. Before and during that period it would be difficult to attribute blades since there are hardly two the same and where blades were fitted they were often European and all different. It would therefor not be unreasonable to assume that this habit telescoped back in time on the fore runner to the Kastane in the Portuguese period and beyond where choice blades from different countries were fitted to a style recognizable as Kastane but more austere as fighting weapons. Such blades could have come from a number of places including the Iberian Peninsula and http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...p?t=8404&page=3 at post #62 shows a similar shaped blade.

The decoration could have been added in S.E. Asia and transmitted via trade to the Philipines. Since no boundaries are set because the type of sword had by fashion a blade fitted at the owners discretion numerous other forms of similar type would be perfectly suitable in this early weapon including storta and other blades from the orient including Chinese ... There were perhaps no rules and regulations. It was the fashion.

Such was the importance of the weapon that he had it engraved with his personal stamp between the Vajra quilons. (Below). This may well have been because the weapon was related to a question of religion and perhaps linked to his conversion to Christianity. The Catholic conversions in the Filipines and in Sri Lanka may have given rise to this affiliation of ideas and his crest had a cross at the top. It should be remembered that the point of the mission was linked to Japan possibly being a convert to Christianity and the meetings all along were of a religious nature. (See Reference E.)

Regarding Vajra Quilons; Whereas the function on a normal sword is to dislodge the opponents sword by trapping the blade with the Quillons and giving strength to the hilt generally...it may be observed that in Machete style there is little time or function in trying to trap the opponents blade...This is a chopping slashing weapon thus any blows to the cross-guard would be dangerous with such a heavy blade thus cushioning of those blows could be the reason for inclusion on such a fighting weapon. It may be that this is the reason why the fighting weapon has quilons right against the blade narrowed throat...and why such a fashion passed on to the non combat role of the Kastane later.

Note that the early stone Freize (Below)"Kastane" does not have Quilons but this may be down to the Portuguese carver who cannot be blamed for missing out such a trivial item nor for possibly getting the cross guard wrong. The stone carving was something of a hearsay project and done some time after the event. Although slightly unreliable it is interesting for its broad blade and lion head format very similar indeed to the Sendai example.

What appears missing in the Sendai is the scabbard however, I show below three swords from a woodcut in Early Sri Lankan illustrations where similar blades appear (and the immediate words Machete Blades!! is distinctly heard) with no scabbards. (Below)

Although no scabbard is present it could be that no scabbard was worn in the fighting style and shown similarly at the 3 woodcuts and in the stone freize here. Although no exact blade has been yet identified the terrain in Sri Lanka like a lot of South East Asia is jungle and bush therefor a Gollock or Machete blade is probably not uncommon although it can be seen how foreign weapons entered local service with items like the Partisan spear and other styles brought by the invaders that could have displaced this weapon. Neither is it beyond the spheres of possibility that a blade like this could have found its way into the system regionally since by about 1500 trade in the Indian Ocean was dominated by Arab, Indian, Malay, and Chinese merchants, who together used various seafaring craft to transport a spectrum of cargo, from spices to elephants.

It is suggested that the fighting weapon was later Iconised and became a court sword and badge of rank mirroring the old fighting sword in many respects but becoming a dress sword and badge of rank indicator only.

In terms of timeline an interesting hilt of carved Ivory is shown from the V and A as possibly 15th C and Upper section of a hilt for a Sinhalese sword (kastanaya) carved in the form of a mythical lion (sinha). When acquired, it was reported that this hilt had been presented to an ancestoral member of the Weerasingha family by Parakrama Bahu VI, ruler of the kingdom of Kotte (r. 1410-62). Well before the Portuguese.

In summary the Sendai Example may now be considered as all Sri Lankan whilst not including the blade that was by choice decided upon by the owner and perhaps from Europe or India/Asia/China.. and conforms to a decorative blade Makara aspect as well as sporting the correct hilt, knuckle and cross guards with supporting Vajra Quilons of "The Kastane".

Below pictures in no particular order
1. Sendai Museum Hilt.
2. Hasekura Ships Pendant.
3. Sendai Museum blade detail and Hasekura Crest.
4. 3 sketch/woodcuts with broad sword machete detail...no scabbard?
5. Ivory Hilt pre Portuguese.
6. The Pinhao sword stone carving.
7. North Indian Makara carving.
8. Letter from Hasekura in Manila to son. In Sendai Museum.
9. Document with sketch of Hasekura in Rome where he converted ...showing Crest in top right corner.
10. Another North Indian Makara.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Continuation and addition to the above Post...A clearer picture of the Sendai Kastane..From https://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/about/military-history-contents-2/sinhala-matchlocks/ which as a matter of interest claims the blade is Portuguese !! :shrug: A point I do not disagree with.

The Hasekura stamp or coat of arms (Inverted) between the Vajra Quilons must have been carried out in Manila or at sea on the way to Japan. Perhaps Hasekura saw this as being a Christian countries weapon... Catholic. Thus he had his stamp placed on it (his stamp contains a cross.) and not realizing the disaster awaiting him in Japan where all his family, supporters and friends were to be executed soon after he arrived because of a purge against Christianity.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

To show further the broad regional influence of Makara Design/ Decoration. From Tibet and China in pictures below.

WITH SUCH A VAST DISTRIBUTION THE QUESTION HAS TO BE FROM WHERE DID THE MAKARA ON THE SENDAI ORIGINATE? ...SINCE HERE ARE 10 COUNTRIES IN THE FRAME WITH STONE CARVINGS ~

Makara in the Nanpaya Temple, Bagan, Borneo.
Makara at Sambor Prei Kuk Temple, Kampong Thom Town, Cambodia.
Makara in the north of the Qi dynasty (EC 550-577) in China.
Makara and Kirtimukha protecting the portal of the Chennakesava Temple in Belur, India.
Sculptures of Makara at Candi Kalasan Temple, Indonesia.
Makara in Wat (Temple) ThatPhun, Vientiane, Laos.
Makara of the seventh century AD. in the National Museum of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
Makara and Kirtimukha at the Hindu Temple in Kathmandu, Nepal.
Makara with Nagas, Wat (Temple) Suthat, Bangkok, Thailand.
Cham Naga god coming out of Makara's mouth at the National History Museum of Vietnam.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

In terms of a home grown Machete in Sri Lanka there is of course... THE Veecharuval ... seen below as a broad bladed weapon on a black backround and a tip somewhat upturned which could be remodeled with a clipped tip etc...Shown also Falchion capable of being refitted and made to look like the Machete form we are observing in both the Pihao stone freize and the Sendai. I include the sketch of Dutch landing in Eastern Ceylon early in the Portuguese period..and the Machete weapon in the hands of a tribal warrior also very like the Machete style under scrutiny. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Another region ....The Malibar Coast has been examined for Makara decorated blades...See below the Ayda Katti or Moplah. In the case of the shorter bladed weapon sometimes called a South Indian cleaver...The sword was without a scabbard, being held in a wide belt worn on the back. Both styles showing the distinctive Makara on the blades...in these examples at the throat.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Could it be that the Sri Lankan weapon shown here in a simple woodcut is in fact a Falchion ...see example.

This is an early landing by a Dutch group in Eastern Sri Lanka where the right hand tribal warrior is holding a similar weapon...Is this the Falchion? A remarkably similar weapon to the Stone Freize weapon.

This picture(kNOX) with RELATION DE CEYLAN has another warrior at right with a similar weapon...

A picture in the hands of a European is shown to compare ...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Further reference showing the Buddhist influence on sword design in some cases as far afield as Japan. The use of Vajra as Quilons on these swords is apparent and widespread.

Below:
1. Japanese Buddha Statue with Sword; Illustrating Vajra Quillons.
2. Kastane for comparison.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Illustration of Vajra Quillons on an Indian Tulvar Hilt. The architecture on the Quillons and on the Knuckleguard is virtually identical to that on the Kastane shown for comparison. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is quite rare to find accurate well preserved examples of Makara and Vajra Quillons on blades and hilts thus when one appears it truly shows the architectural influence across regions when considered in a religious viewpoint in this case Buddhist. This has proved a link to the sword decoration on Sri Lankan Kastane and on other weapons in the region from many sources including Tibet in the case of this example, India and other Eastern countries.

Of special note the Makara present on this and the Sendai Museum blade at #185 springs to mind when considering Makara on blades pointing firmly to this Buddhist influence and away from any European design impact.

Whilst this Purba is 19thC or before many go back to 10TH OR 11 THC or before.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please note that There are 11 pages of Buddhist Tibbettan Purba religious objects at z.pinterest.com/pin/360076932690957766/ contains about 11 pages of Purba and is worth reading for its content.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Following on from thread and above I illustrate here the evidence of cross regional influence from Buddhist sword architecture from ceremonial religious themes onto The Sri Lankan Kastane; The Quillons. This is the second statue of Buddha and similar to the figure at #191 previously. Secondary influence can be seen in Phurba and Vajra examples previously.

This clue first came to my attention from a Met Museum annual publication and here from an excellent picture from the web. It illustrated the application of an apparent quillons structure ~ however it has to be borne in mind that this type of quillon and indeed the sword form were not battle mode weapons... neither, in fact, was the Sri Lankan Kastane to which it was design related. The important lesson here is that this design as with much of the Kastane reflected from neighboring regions including Tibet, India and as far afield as Japan in the religious sense and that far from being a European design this was essentially Home Grown and from regional influence.

The Met write up includes the date of this statue. Viz; 12thC.

From https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/44842 Quote"Fudō Myōō (Achala-vidyārāja), 12th century. Japan. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York. The Harry G. C. Packard Collection of Asian Art, Gift of Harry G. C. Packard, and Purchase, Fletcher, Rogers, Harris Brisbane Dick, and Louis V. Bell Funds, Joseph Pulitzer Bequest, and The Annenberg Fund Inc. Gift, 1975 (1975.268.163) | Fudō Myōō uses his sword to cut through ignorance and his lasso to reign in those who would block the path to enlightenment. #sword''Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Viewing Kastane hilts through different eyes brings a differing perspective on an interesting subject. Since the historical meaning is shrouded in history and the zoomorphic licence to create a variety of Iconic creatures is very much up to the specialist artisan working in the Royal Workshops many features on the hilt are changed to meet the multi faceted nature of the sword..and bearing in mind its non battle application and its respected place as a badge of office and rank in society.
Below are some examples of the different styles.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

One particular aspect of the Kastane design has been very difficult to picture since it is not on all variants and is difficult to see unless the sword is turned through 90 degrees; I refer to what is known as a humano-crocodile face on the knuckleguard illustrated on this sold item below although it is termed a fanged demon~

I refer to another on Forum Library at

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=166881&postcount=48

[Jim McDougall]

Viewing Kastane hilts through different eyes brings a differing perspective on an interesting subject. Since the historical meaning is shrouded in history and the zoomorphic licence to create a variety of Iconic creatures is very much up to the specialist artisan working in the Royal Workshops many features on the hilt are changed to meet the multi faceted nature of the sword..and bearing in mind its non battle application and its respected place as a badge of office and rank in society.
Below are some examples of the different styles.

Fascinating range of zoomorphics, and as you note, fashioned in accord with clientele demands and skills of the artisans. The character of these depicted creatures is indeed reflective of certain symbolisms distinctive to the person wearing the sword in court or parade settings.

The one being held by the gloved individual(post #196 upper left photo) is one that was found, if I recall, in Vancouver, British Columbia, and there was a great discussion of how in the world a Sinhalese sword ended up there around the turn of the century c.1800. There were some entries in I believe a trade ledger of the company there which described a number of 'dragon swords'. As we have seen with the Hasekura example in Japan which seems to have filtered through trade in the Philippines, it has been suggested Spanish trade may have been involved.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim, The Vancouver situation is very interesting although I have no idea how it turned up there..
Although the Papal act gave the Indian Ocean to Portugal and South America to the Spanish (for exploration etc), I know that Spanish ships were also in the region..and discovered the shorter route rather than having to haul via Acupulco to The Filipines etc. How the Sendai item arrived in the Filipines is a mystery and who put the blade and hilt together? ...or in fact if it is original is a further puzzle.

The difficulty attached to the Sendai Museum is what blade is shown there? It has a Makara on the blade which could be either Chinese or Indian..Technically it could even be Sri Lankan. It is a problem as previously discussed and the blade itself is very heavy by comparison to a normal Kastane...and more like the stone carving, ...however, it is extremely difficult to compare a carved item with an actual blade...and whereas the other potential assist via the Leeds museum is a painting with a sheathed Kastane (On The Popham armour)...is thus equally hard to compare. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dutch involvement in the Dutch East Indies has spawned an unlikely transfer of design. The pommel design of the Sri Lankan Kastane appears on the Dogs Head Royal Navy Cutlass; The 1720 Dog head. See the European Forum #1 at~!

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23367

and below ~

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Linking two sites here on Library see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=224340#post224340

~since clearly the two weapons the Castane and the Piha Kaetta were probably made at the same time and in the same workshops...illustrated by the similar finish to the end of the scabbards in either case... being a Parrots head form.


Kastana

The national sword of Ceylon. Typically a short curved single-edged watered blade, double-edged at the point. The hilt comprises a knuckle-guard and down-turned quillons, each terminating in a dragon's head with large in-set eyes. The dragon's head is usually decorated throughout with gold or silver panels and the pommel with tongue is formed from a piece of wood or red coral. The dragon's mane trails down the grip and is decorated with silver and gilt repousse floral designs. The entire hilt is often made of silver or gold and even inlaid with jewels. The blade close to the hilt is decorated with floral or thatched designs. The scabbard is made from wood and is covered with embossed and chased silver worked with flowers with leafy borders and richly ornamental.
The swords were intended to serve as badges of rank. Rev. James Cordiner in 1807 wrote that everyone in office wears a sword with a silver hilt and scabbard. These swords were made in the Royal workshops known as the "Rankadu Pattala" or "golden sword workshop" and the quality of the piece always depended on the rank of the wearer.