Noth African sword

[blue lander]

The seller described it as an Asian saber, but it looks too much like a Takouba style blade to be anything but North African. It's going to be awhile before it arrives here but I thought I'd post a few pictures from the auction.

Judging from the odd shape of the end of the blade and the way the fullers look truncated at the tip, I'm guessing this was cut down from a larger blade. The handle looks like it's riveted on, which is odd. Since the fullers look forged and the moon and crosses on the blade look stamped, is it safe to assume this was a European blade made for export to North Africa?

The maker's mark is a man in the moon with three crosses on each side. I found a Nimcha with similar markings, 4 crosses instead of three though, here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985)

There's no sheath with it, so I'm not sure If it's possible to determine exactly where it came from. Any ideas? Or what I should call it? Was it a Nimcha at some point? Is it possible to tell where the blade was manufactured or how old it is? I got a pretty good price on it and nobody bid against me, so I hope I didn't get another dud.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The seller described it as an Asian saber, but it looks too much like a Takouba style blade to be anything but North African. It's going to be awhile before it arrives here but I thought I'd post a few pictures from the auction.

Judging from the odd shape of the end of the blade and the way the fullers look truncated at the tip, I'm guessing this was cut down from a larger blade. The handle looks like it's riveted on, which is odd. Since the fullers look forged and the moon and crosses on the blade look stamped, is it safe to assume this was a European blade made for export to North Africa?

The maker's mark is a man in the moon with three crosses on each side. I found a Nimcha with similar markings, 4 crosses instead of three though, here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985)

There's no sheath with it, so I'm not sure If it's possible to determine exactly where it came from. Any ideas? Or what I should call it? Was it a Nimcha at some point? Is it possible to tell where the blade was manufactured or how old it is? I got a pretty good price on it and nobody bid against me, so I hope I didn't get another dud.


Salaams blue lander... Looks OK to me! Some may be forgiven for thinking this is a snapped sword ... at both ends... but have a look at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985 Oh I see you have already spotted that ... Nice... In particular I think #7 by Jim McDougall is worthy of note. I looked up the reference to Sandiago Cross and that was interesting.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; For other Cross shapes related to The Cross of St James (Santiago) see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Saint_James

I have added the famous sword hilt detail of the last Emir Abu `Abdallah Muhammad XII (c. 1460 to c. 1533), known as Boabdil (a Spanish rendering of the name Abu Abdullah), was the twenty-second and last Nasrid ruler of Granada. He was also called el chico, the little, or el zogoybi, the unfortunate. Son of Abu l-Hasan Ali, he was proclaimed sultan in 1482 in place of his father, who was driven from the land. Please note the 4 crosses on the hilt. (In Islamic terms, usually, the cross was used to signify light (candlelight), although, there may be another significance attached to this design)

[Iain]

The seller described it as an Asian saber, but it looks too much like a Takouba style blade to be anything but North African. It's going to be awhile before it arrives here but I thought I'd post a few pictures from the auction.

Judging from the odd shape of the end of the blade and the way the fullers look truncated at the tip, I'm guessing this was cut down from a larger blade. The handle looks like it's riveted on, which is odd. Since the fullers look forged and the moon and crosses on the blade look stamped, is it safe to assume this was a European blade made for export to North Africa?


This does indeed look like a European blade with good age to it. The hilt style is from Berber north Africa, Tunis if I recall correctly.


The maker's mark is a man in the moon with three crosses on each side. I found a Nimcha with similar markings, 4 crosses instead of three though, here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985)

There's no sheath with it, so I'm not sure If it's possible to determine exactly where it came from. Any ideas? Or what I should call it? Was it a Nimcha at some point? Is it possible to tell where the blade was manufactured or how old it is? I got a pretty good price on it and nobody bid against me, so I hope I didn't get another dud.

I don't think this is a dud. I'd actually watched this piece for a few months as something of interest, particularly given the price. However it's outside my usual collecting area.

[blue lander]

Salaams blue lander... Looks OK to me! Some may be forgiven for thinking this is a snapped sword ... at both ends... but have a look at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985 Oh I see you have already spotted that ... Nice... In particular I think #7 by Jim McDougall is worthy of note. I looked up the reference to Sandiago Cross and that was interesting.


It's so interesting that both of these swords have very similar markings, both were cut down in virtually the same configuration, and then his ends up heavily worn but in a beautiful nimcha and mine ends up lightly used but in a very crude mounting. I wonder how long that Nimcha is. Mine is 69cm OAL.

Thanks for the link on the Cross of St. James. In the Moorish application are there always 4 crosses? Mine has only 3. The half moon on his nimcha is a little different than mine too, it's facing a different direction.

Speaking of the half moon, I think I saw a picture of a Takouba with a nearly identical half moon on, but now I can't find the link.


This does indeed look like a European blade with good age to it. The hilt style is from Berber north Africa, Tunis if I recall correctly.

I'm glad it's an "official" hilt style, to me it looked more like somebody tried to duplicate a machete handle. I haven't had any luck searching for Tunisian hilts on google, but I'll keep looking. I'm glad you decided not to bid on this one :)

[Jim McDougall]

Blue Lander, far from a dud!!!!
While of course 'rough' it is a sound example of a blade which has probably been in circulation for a considerable time, and as noted, has been rather radically reprofiled. The hilt corresponds to certain Maghrebi forms, loosely of the type often seen on s'bula from Moroccan regions, and which have ranged in diffusion all the way to Zanzibar on trade routes. The use of wood brings to mind certain Tunisian hilt forms as Iain has mentioned.

Returning to the blade, these distinct cross forms, particularly in the quadriform configuration seem to correspond to other examples seen occasionally on koummya if I recall correctly . The blade I would take for probably an 18th century German trade product and I suspect many of these to have ended up in the Maghreb. It seems that 'nimcha' sometimes have similar and on European origin blades of these forms which continued in production well into the 19th c.

Often trying to definitively classify ethnographic weapons by a typological term is pure folly, as these blades not only were recycled and remounted from one generation to the next. The term 'Berber' of course covers an immense scope across Saharan regions, but may be considered broadly in descriptions while remaining correctly applied .

I would consider this to be a Saharan knife with radically re profiled heavy sabre or cutlass blade of German import and probably as now mounted with tribal origins along Berber inhabited regions from Maghreb to Tunis. The blade likely latter 18th into 19th.

[blue lander]

Well I think that answers all of my questions. Thank you! I'm glad I finally got a blade with some significant age to it.

[blue lander]

Whoops, thought of a couple more questions: do you think the blade is crucible steel or blister steel? Should I etch the blade or should I just coat it in museum wax and call it a day?

[Jim McDougall]

Whoops, thought of a couple more questions: do you think the blade is crucible steel or blister steel? Should I etch the blade or should I just coat it in museum wax and call it a day?


It is a trade blade from Solingen which has nothing to do with those kinds of steel or forging, and a true antique with probably an amazing history. It is not a museum showpiece, but that blade has well earned that dark patination.
In my opinion, out of respect, I would suggest stabilizing and only light cleaning with WD40 or comparable. It is terrible to see the garish, over cleaned items often seen these days which have been stripped of the valuable patina and its inherent charm.

[blue lander]

I'll wipe it down and then give it a nice coat of WD-40. Thanks again.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It's so interesting that both of these swords have very similar markings, both were cut down in virtually the same configuration, and then his ends up heavily worn but in a beautiful nimcha and mine ends up lightly used but in a very crude mounting. I wonder how long that Nimcha is. Mine is 69cm OAL.

Thanks for the link on the Cross of St. James. In the Moorish application are there always 4 crosses? Mine has only 3. The half moon on his nimcha is a little different than mine too, it's facing a different direction.

Speaking of the half moon, I think I saw a picture of a Takouba with a nearly identical half moon on, but now I can't find the link.

I'm glad it's an "official" hilt style, to me it looked more like somebody tried to duplicate a machete handle. I haven't had any luck searching for Tunisian hilts on google, but I'll keep looking. I'm glad you decided not to bid on this one :)

Salaams blue lander .. I'm not sure about the moon being a half moon nor of it being a man in the moon face though clearly the European style inscribed on Toledo blades by Juan Martinez and Peter Munch(Peter Munich) were "man in the moon faces"...I think the later inscriptions copied onto Islamic region swords were of the new moon. Your moon comprises a moon (presumably new) and 3 new moons and possibly a sun..Peter Munch used moons as Talismans it is thought...see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5453&highlight=MOONS
The reason for 3 crosses not 4 is probably because of the fullers preventing a 4th stamp being put. Three is a very powerful talismanic construct...in different regions including the Fleur de Lys 'Trio in Juncta' and Islamic forms.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams blue lander .. I'm not sure about the moon being a half moon nor of it being a man in the moon face though clearly the European style inscribed on Toledo blades by Juan Martinez and Peter Munch(Peter Munich) were "man in the moon faces"...I think the later inscriptions copied onto Islamic region swords were of the new moon. Your moon comprises a moon (presumably new) and 3 new moons and possibly a sun..Peter Munch used moons as Talismans it is thought...see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5453&highlight=MOONS
The reason for 3 crosses not 4 is probably because of the fullers preventing a 4th stamp being put. Three is a very powerful talismanic construct...in different regions including the Fleur de Lys 'Trio in Juncta' and Islamic forms.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


It is a man in the moon, or half moon. These are very common in the region and consist of the curved back of the crescent, the face, often with a pronounced nose and the eye. This particular one is a little more rudimentary than some, but still of the general form.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is a man in the moon, or half moon. These are very common in the region and consist of the curved back of the crescent, the face, often with a pronounced nose and the eye. This particular one is a little more rudimentary than some, but still of the general form.


Salaams Iain, I am aware of the numerous moon inscriptions generally seen on swords in the region but wish to point out that there are two distinct versions (generally).

The first is the Peter Munch full obvious moon face and the second what I describe as the new moon basically struck. The moon in #1 is clearly struck with 3 inner new moon shapes. I think this became the style on African and Arabian(mainly Red Sea) blades copied from Europeans. I also think that although Peter Munch is considered to have struck the moons as some sort of majic association it was without the realization that this could indeed be a strong Talisman in other regions.

The full faced man in the moon are struck at source whereas the more rudimentary forms are done in local workshops.

My main point is that these may not be considered as half moons in Islamic areas since the half moon has little significance whereas the new moon is an entirely different subject.

For a couple of examples of copied moons see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455&highlight=kattara+comments #326.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams Iain, I am aware of the numerous moon inscriptions generally seen on swords in the region but wish to point out that there are two distinct versions (generally).

The first is the Peter Munch full obvious moon face and the second what I describe as the new moon basically struck. The moon in #1 is clearly struck with 3 inner new moon shapes. I think this became the style on African and Arabian(mainly Red Sea) blades copied from Europeans. I also think that although Peter Munch is considered to have struck the moons as some sort of majic association it was without the realization that this could indeed be a strong Talisman in other regions.

The full faced man in the moon are struck at source whereas the more rudimentary forms are done in local workshops.

My main point is that these may not be considered as half moons in Islamic areas since the half moon has little significance whereas the new moon is an entirely different subject.

For a couple of examples of copied moons see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455&highlight=kattara+comments #326.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Of course talismanic symbols from Europe can take on different meanings in various regions. However even degenerate forms like this one, they still retain the essential characteristics of the man in the moon mark. In this case the semi circles used to stamp the face, are merely the easiest way for the craftsman to achieve the desired pattern as he is not using a complete stamp. The three elements combine to create the distinctive nasal feature.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Of course talismanic symbols from Europe can take on different meanings in various regions. However even degenerate forms like this one, they still retain the essential characteristics of the man in the moon mark. In this case the semi circles used to stamp the face, are merely the easiest way for the craftsman to achieve the desired pattern as he is not using a complete stamp. The three elements combine to create the distinctive nasal feature.


Salaams Iain ~ Thank you for your diagram illustrating the moon relating its so called facial character.

A lot of folks reading into arms of these regions will have no idea about the Talismanic or other marks on swords...but as you say (and I agree) "Of course talismanic symbols from Europe can take on different meanings in various regions".

If the moon is copied (onto African and Arabian Sword blades) Does the feature then take on another meaning altogether ? ... Is it then a man in the moon or something else? I suggest the latter... In which case it is not a man in the moon .. It becomes a Talismanic object reflecting a new moon in the sense of the region in which it now resides...something very different to its original application and meaning.

In the same way the cross may well have changed to a star or even a dot..

* . and the cross becomes a sign of light (the candle) The dot an indicator of the centre of the Universe...

For a couple of examples of copied moons see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455&page=12&pp=30&highlight=kattara+comments #326.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug: :)

[Iain]

Salaams Iain ~ Thank you for your diagram illustrating the moon relating its so called facial character.


It is what it is and it has a face. Usually when paired on face is open eyed the other winking. As I already stated these symbols can take on different meanings in different cultures, however the retention of the facial features speaks strongly to the lineage of the mark.

A new moon as far as I'm aware in Islamic art is not illustrated with a face... As seen in the one example you linked an image of where it is simply a crescent.

In the context of African blades the mark retained much of its original form because it was a hallmark of quality and not merely an illustrative symbol.

In short, marks can take on multiple meanings, sometimes outside of their original context. But when this much of the form is retained it speaks volumes as to the influence of the original application.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is what it is and it has a face. Usually when paired on face is open eyed the other winking. As I already stated these symbols can take on different meanings in different cultures, however the retention of the facial features speaks strongly to the lineage of the mark.

A new moon as far as I'm aware in Islamic art is not illustrated with a face... As seen in the one example you linked an image of where it is simply a crescent.

In the context of African blades the mark retained much of its original form because it was a hallmark of quality and not merely an illustrative symbol.

In short, marks can take on multiple meanings, sometimes outside of their original context. But when this much of the form is retained it speaks volumes as to the influence of the original application.


Salaams Iain,
So you agree that what we have here is quite an interesting linkage back to perhaps Juan Martinez, Toledo mid 16th C or Peter Munch Solingen 1595-1660, thus, a European Sword mark which has been transmitted onto trade blades and copied by local smiths all over the African region and Red Sea, Yemen etc in the last 250 years. The precisely named "man in the moon" insignia being copied and as a mark of excellence onto blades in the region and beyond. Originally probably placed with a magical quality being inferred... and reflected somewhat in the Islamic sense of Talismanic protection in the crescent moon illustration...with and without nose eyes mouth...

Thus it becomes a new moon in the afro/arabian sense from an original European man in the moon design.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams Iain,
So you agree that what we have here is quite an interesting linkage back to perhaps Peter Munch and a European Sword mark which has been transmitted onto trade blades and copied by local smiths all over the African region and Red Sea, Yemen etc. The precisely named "man in the moon" insignia being copied and as a mark of excellence onto blades in the region and beyond. Originally probably placed with a magical quality being inferred... and reflected somewhat in the Islamic sense of Talismanic protection in the crescent moon illustration...with and without nose eyes mouth...

Thus it becomes a new moon in the afro/arabian sense from an original European man in the moon design.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I agree there's a linkage, although I wouldn't attribute it solely to Munch. He was only one maker to use the symbol.

I don't agree it necessarily becomes a "new moon" in the African context. That's an over simplification in my opinion.

[CharlesS]

You may find this picture helpful. The flintlock rifle style suggests this picture was taken in Morocco, but does not necessarily limit that style of sword's usage to that area alone.

[Iain]

You may find this picture helpful. The flintlock rifle style suggests this picture was taken in Morocco, but does not necessarily limit that style of sword's usage to that area alone.

Nice pic Charles, which seems to show an s'boula. These are usually slimmer than the piece at the start of this thread, but obviously a familial relation in hilt form. Perhaps the piece in this thread could be classed as one as well.

[blue lander]

Thanks, that hilt looks quite similar although it doesn't seem to have the leather "bolster" mine has.

Does anybody have an example of what this blade mighty have looked like before it was cut down? Maybe something like this Gurade?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10460

[CharlesS]

Iain,

I think if we can imagine the original sword in the thread with its complete, undamaged stylized "I" hilt as in the version below it could easily fall into the s'boula category. It seems as if this sword's lower hilt, or guard, uses leather as covering where they would more typically be brass covered.

The hilt certainly seems closer to that to me than, say, a kaskara or takouba....don't you think so? Also note the mid hilt bolt that is generally universally seen on s'boulas and compare the zig-zag carving midway on that example to the carving on the wooden portion of the hilt below.

The blade is, indeed, wider than the example below, but it has been cut down, clearly. Perhaps it was an attempt to mimic the s'boula???

[Iain]

Iain,

I think if we can imagine the original sword in the thread with its complete, undamaged stylized "I" hilt it could easily fall into the s'boula category. The hilt certainly seems closer to that to me than, say, a kaskara or takouba....don't you think so? Also note the mid hilt bolt that is generally universally seen on s'boulas.

Agree completely Charles. It's definitely from the Berber sphere. I see these pop up in French auctions from time to time, all with the same tip style. So it seems like an established type.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The seller described it as an Asian saber, but it looks too much like a Takouba style blade to be anything but North African. It's going to be awhile before it arrives here but I thought I'd post a few pictures from the auction.

Judging from the odd shape of the end of the blade and the way the fullers look truncated at the tip, I'm guessing this was cut down from a larger blade. The handle looks like it's riveted on, which is odd. Since the fullers look forged and the moon and crosses on the blade look stamped, is it safe to assume this was a European blade made for export to North Africa?

The maker's mark is a man in the moon with three crosses on each side. I found a Nimcha with similar markings, 4 crosses instead of three though, here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985)

There's no sheath with it, so I'm not sure If it's possible to determine exactly where it came from. Any ideas? Or what I should call it? Was it a Nimcha at some point? Is it possible to tell where the blade was manufactured or how old it is? I got a pretty good price on it and nobody bid against me, so I hope I didn't get another dud.


Salaams blue lander,
Very interesting blade form. Clearly a reworked European blade but from where I wondered may it have originated. I thought Falchion.

Metropolitan Museum Quote."Falchion refers to a type of curved sword that was used in Europe from about 1200. This one BELOW is one of the few to survive from the late fifteenth century. Its long narrow blade and interlaced decoration on the hilt suggest the Middle Eastern influence that was an important feature in Venetian and Spanish art''.Unquote.

Transmission of Nimcha and associated weapons throughout the Mediterranean is well known.. I see this as possibly the potential design origin of your weapon at #1.

Any ideas anyone?

The crosses look similar to those at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3996 on #3. Perhaps it is attributable to that specific tribal group?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[CharlesS]

Just curious Iain....do they fetch very much at French auctions??? I am guessing not. The style in general won't win many blade beauty contests! :D

[blue lander]

One other thing - the hilt appears to be decorated on only one side. Here's two more pictures from the auction. It looks like the seller shipped it out yesterday so hopefully I'll have it in a week or two.

[Iain]

Just curious Iain....do they fetch very much at French auctions??? I am guessing not. The style in general won't win many blade beauty contests! :D

Tends to be on the lower end of the spectrum. A simple style that seems to take advantage of available blades. Some seem a bit cobbled together, others more cohesive in terms of style. I'll try to dig up some photos of others.

[Jim McDougall]

It is interesting to see the great developing discussion here especially pertaining to the markings, which of course have been a key fascination of mine for more years than I can say. I am also glad to see agreement in my notes (post #5) suggesting the s'boula hilt connection, which as noted could place this refurbished blade in many regional contexts throughout the wide Berber sphere. As Charles has noted, the occurrence of a weapon in a certain place or with a particular ethnic or tribal individual does not necessarily establish that as its indigenous provenance. The diffusion of ethnographic weapons through trade, warfare and often nomadic movements makes such classifications not only typically unlikely, but profoundly speculative.

Returning to the markings, especially the 'man in the moon' (known as dukari in Saharan parlance usually in pairs on takouba and occasionally on some kaskara in Sudan)....I think it is well established that this image or device has been adopted rather universally in native symbolism. While the original 'moon' character was part of a type of talismanic motif that evolved from various occult and magical followings, believed to have originated probably in Spain, it was soon widely used in Germany.

As trade blades from Germany (the preponderance of volume) entered various centers and diffused into other regions via caravan routes, clearly the presence of such marks were emphasized by merchants to signify the quality of the blades. As these blades dispersed into tribal elements, the markings became often seen in the visual perspective of the folk religion symbolism. There can of course be many interpretations of what these might be as perceived temporally by these typically highly superstitious and not necessarily highly educated tribesmen.

What is key is that the presence of these symbols became a matter of imbuement rather than distinct imagery or iconography. What was important was what the marking or its presence was supposed to induce in the blade, not what it was necessarily supposed to be. Over time these typically paired 'man in the moon' became degenerated in form to the point of being unrecognizable, but still their placement served its purpose .

I think the occasion of these kinds of markings often appearing only on one side of the blade could signify apotropaic importance as protection from evil or malevolence was a prevalent concern in tribal cultures. The outer or 'exposed' face of the blade (sometimes scabbards as well) would have talismanic devices to ward off these forces. The flyssa is a good example of such geometric devices but it is on both blade faces. I think that the images in Briggs note similar mark grouping on a nimcha on one side only . On many Arab swords, the 'aghreb' (=scorpion) appears only on outer side to deflect evil eye.

[Iain]

One other thing - the hilt appears to be decorated on only one side. Here's two more pictures from the auction. It looks like the seller shipped it out yesterday so hopefully I'll have it in a week or two.

I'm not overly familiar with these coastal arms (Moroccan etc.) but in other forms it's not unusual to see a "face" side intended to be displayed outwards and a plain reverse side. Seems to be the case here.

[Jim McDougall]

We crossed posts Iain :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~Note to Library; I mentioned earlier a reference to Moroccan crosses similar to those at #1 being attributable to one tribal group; Wikipedia, Quote" Mulai Ahmed er Raisuni (Arabic: "مولاي أحمد الريسوني", known as Raisuli to most English speakers, also Raissoulli, Rais Uli and Raysuni) (b. 1871,[1] Zinat, Tétouan – d. April 1925,[2] Tamasint, Al Hoceima[3]) was a Sharif (descendant of Mohammed) and a leader of the Jebala tribal confederacy in Morocco at the turn of the 20th Century.

While regarded by foreigners and the Moroccan government as a brigand, some Moroccans, especially among the Jbala, considered him a heroic figure, fighting a repressive, corrupt government, while others considered him a thief. Historian David S. Woolman referred to Raisuni as "a combination Robin Hood, feudal baron and tyrannical bandit."[4]

He was considered by many as "The last of the Barbary Pirates" though Barbary Coast piracy had ended by the middle of the 19th century. On the other hand, according to Douglas Porch, an American historian, Raisuni was part of the rule rather than the exception in that every successful Moroccan politician at the time combined villainy with sainthood.[5]

He died in 1925 after having been captured and imprisoned by his rival Abd el Krim.Unquote.

The reference to which this link is associated is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985 and shows a dagger with similar crosses.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[blue lander]

Here's a picture from an old auction described as a "TOUAREG JIBOULA". The pattern on the hilt looks very similar to mine, and there's some similarities in the blade it seems too.


Here's a link to another thread with a similar knife, but much smaller:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=36293

Actually, if you google zanzibar sword or jiboula sword you can find lots of similar example. Most blades look like cut down larger blades with fullers going all the way to the tip, but on some the fullers stop right before the end of the blade. I wonder if these are locally made blades that were made to look like cut down European blades. I haven't seen any other jiboulas/s'boulas/zanzibar swords with any kind of maker's mark, though. That seems more common on Nimchas.

Also, do we think this blade was made in Germany for export, or was it once a European sword that made its way to Africa?

[Jim McDougall]

Salaams blue lander,
Very interesting blade form. Clearly a reworked European blade but from where I wondered may it have originated. I thought Falchion.

Metropolitan Museum Quote."Falchion refers to a type of curved sword that was used in Europe from about 1200. This one BELOW is one of the few to survive from the late fifteenth century. Its long narrow blade and interlaced decoration on the hilt suggest the Middle Eastern influence that was an important feature in Venetian and Spanish art''.Unquote.

Transmission of Nimcha and associated weapons throughout the Mediterranean is well known.. I see this as possibly the potential design origin of your weapon at #1.

Any ideas anyone?

The crosses look similar to those at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3996 on #3. Perhaps it is attributable to that specific tribal group?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi


An astute assessment Ibrahiim, and it is well established that many of the weapon forms in North Africa indeed have certain distant ancestry from a number of Italian forms. These of course filtered into the indigenous forms over long progression and long standing trade and colonial contact. The form seen here is also termed 'storta' and beyond the blade features note the guard system on the hilt. This configuration is believed to be loosely the ancestor of the Moroccan sa'if ('nimcha') via Arab trade sources as well as trade routes to the east and the Ceylonese 'kastane'.
Other weapon features are considered often to plausibly have Italian infuences such as the lunette pommel on many koummya, and other dagger blades referred to as 'janawi' or derivative (=Genoa).

Fascinating detail on the potential association between Raisuli and the crosses and that is indeed an intriguing historical perspective. I recall a great movie on the Raisuli , "The Wind and the Lion" with Sean Connery.
I often defer from referencing movies in illustrating in discussion but some, like this one, seems reasonably well researched and interesting perspective.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

An astute assessment Ibrahiim, and it is well established that many of the weapon forms in North Africa indeed have certain distant ancestry from a number of Italian forms. These of course filtered into the indigenous forms over long progression and long standing trade and colonial contact. The form seen here is also termed 'storta' and beyond the blade features note the guard system on the hilt. This configuration is believed to be loosely the ancestor of the Moroccan sa'if ('nimcha') via Arab trade sources as well as trade routes to the east and the Ceylonese 'kastane'.
Other weapon features are considered often to plausibly have Italian infuences such as the lunette pommel on many koummya, and other dagger blades referred to as 'janawi' or derivative (=Genoa).

Fascinating detail on the potential association between Raisuli and the crosses and that is indeed an intriguing historical perspective. I recall a great movie on the Raisuli , "The Wind and the Lion" with Sean Connery.
I often defer from referencing movies in illustrating in discussion but some, like this one, seems reasonably well researched and interesting perspective.


Salaams Jim... This is one of those moments when suddenly the thick cloud lifts and for a while everything seems clear... links into and from European East Mediterranean to West and to Arabian and far eastern weaponry is sitting there staring off the page. Here are the magnetic attractions caused by war, trade, slavery and exploration between West and East. Not surprising that the great conduit Genoa is in the mix. I see now the potential for the Kastane link, the Nimchas, the east west Mediterranean hands of the Genoans, Italians, East Roman Empire, Arabia et al !! I am learning such a lot from this one... Shukran Jim...

On with the show !!!!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

P.S. A couple of pictures~VARIOUSLY JANAWI(GENOA DAGGER), SBOULA AND STORTA DAGGERS.

[blue lander]

I can see a family resemblance to those Storta, as well as the Falchion you posted earlier. I have to say it's been fun watching you guys piece together the history of this blade form.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I can see a family resemblance to those Storta, as well as the Falchion you posted earlier. I have to say it's been fun watching you guys piece together the history of this blade form.


Salaams blue lander ~ Well much of it has been done before. For example just put into search Storta and heaps of stuff comes up... same with Nimcha, S'boula and the rest.

This thread can run and run.. but it needs input and constructive criticism...Lots of authors have had a go at these linkages some like Burton and Tirri have perhaps been less accurate than others like Buttin.

It is a broad subject reaching across the desert to the Indian Ocean and by sea the long way round as well as desert caravan (the same route that Ibn Battuta took) Transition of sword style and influence is clear on \Zanzibari Nimcha as well as the tantalizing link to the Sri Lankan Kastane. Reverse engineering the designs leads to the city states of Rome, Venice, Constantinople and Genoa...Pressing the button marked slavery, trade and war exposes these swords to international travel to and via South America with the Spanish and into the Indian Ocean aboard Portuguese men of war...

I think for the uninitiated here is a superb place to commence their study...and for me too long perhaps in the blinkered look at Arabian style it is a staggering eye opener.

Here is an idea I had about crosses which have obviously different meanings depending on where you're from..

This one depicts a huge cross( http://m.skinnerinc.com/m/auctions/2680B/lots/642 )and is on a Tekke tribal rug in west Turkmenestan used as a door hanging..The cross signifying a welcome light..The flickering light (if you like) of a candle.

The second smaller picture is the clincher with the St. James Cross form clearly depicted on a Moroccan rug.

This raises another important question... Is what we are looking at the famous Cross of St James/Sandiago (like the necklace shown) or something quite different?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

And...whilst I'm about it ... shall we look to the other great indicator down the historical timeline... Traditional Silver Jewellery.

Salaams all ~ How did the special cross shape gain acceptability in Moroccan traditions? In their designs on rugs and on swords. If the design was well known in Morocco who placed the cross designs on swords ..The Europeans or the Moroccan craftsmen or both?

Look at the design of the cross shaped tribal jewellery below. http://www.dphjewelry.com/art-n0912-104.html

1. On the necklace~This particular cross is stylized from the actual constellation in the night sky of the Southern Hemisphere, the Southern Cross. This design, often with rivets, is associated with the Tuaregs and Berbers.

2. On the ring.. A clear illustration of Berber tradition using the southern cross as the design in this silver ring.

Thus I present the arguement that the St James Cross was not imported to Morocco from the Spanish though it may well have gone the other way entirely. I also argue that it was not the St James Cross but a simple rendition of the Star form seen in the night sky... The Southern Cross. A Berber construct.

Perhaps this also places the basic moon inscriptions in a different light? :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[blue lander]

Very good information that raises the question... who stamped the crosses and moon in these blades? On the one hand it looks like they were stamped in the metal with a die rather than etched. Can you stamp a cold steel blade, or does it have to be done while it's being forged? I guess you could heat it up to stamp it after the fact, but wouldn't that ruin the temper?

On the other hand, it sort of looks like this blade was cut down at both ends and where the current hilt is attached was once part of the blade. If the crosses were stamped into the blade when it was a longer sword, wouldn't that place them somewhere in the middle of the original blade? If that's the case then they may have been stamped at the time the blade was cut down.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all; Note to Forum. Wikipedia speaks of moons and stars.

Quote. ''Crescent moon and star ;It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Dynasty, Sultan Osman I, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the Five Pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.


The Ottomans also used a flag with a crescent. When the first Ottoman Caliph, Selim I assumed power, the religious flag and the national flag were separated. While both flags featured a right facing crescent, the national flag was red and the religious flag green, and, at a later date a five-pointed star was added. This type of flag has become the de facto Islamic flag, and is used, with variations, by multiple Muslim lands such as Algeria, Azerbaijan, the Comoros, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Pakistan, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Uzbekistan, and the Western Sahara. As the crescent and star have no religious significance however, some Muslim scholars are against attaching these signs on mosques and minarets or using them to denote Muslim societies''.Unquote.

So far as the Berber star situation it seems clear that their ancient traditions which were not written down but were handed down, thus, a Southern Cross format could have preceded the other stars mentioned above. The non religious aspect is interesting since it refers more to the sighting of the new moon (Crescent Moon to ascertain the Lunar Calender) rather than a religious consideration... though it may also have Talismanic reasoning and is, perhaps, pre Islamic as could be the stars and southern cross insignias..

At any rate, moons and stars preceded the advent of such European sword marks since The Ottoman Empire, sometimes referred to as the Turkish Empire or simply Turkey, was a contiguous transcontinental empire founded by Turkish tribes under Osman Bey in north-western Anatolia in 1299. That was about 500 years before European trade blades entered Africa.

The transition of moon and star concepts may have moved in parallel with the conquest of Africa meaning that they would have been well versed in its use quite early since the conquest of North Africa continued under the Umayyad dynasty, taking Algeria by 61H/680AD, and Morocco the following year. Even assuming a few hundred years ...it can be seen that by say 1400 AD the moon cross and star insignia across North Africa would have been well known.

In addition the 5 pointed star, crescent moon and southern cross are insignias common in Morocco today.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All Note to Library; Members may be puzzled that a womens jewellery design or an item of womens Jewellery could be used on a mans item such as a sword...however...

The Southern Cross from Agades or Iferwan was originally worn only by men who transferred it from father to son at puberty. It hints to the virility and strength of the young men in relation to their traditional nomad lifestyle. The cross represents the saddle pommel of their camels or in a wider view, the four cardinal directions.

Traditionally a father would transmit the cross to his son saying "Son, I give you the four directions, as no one knows where your path will end."

And.... Each Tuareg village has its own Agadez or Southern Cross. There are 21 distinct crosses that have been documented to identify the Tuareg tribal groups of Northern Niger viewable below and on http://www.raken.com/info/eng/historique/touareg.asp

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, All ~ Here is one of the very few paintings displaying Arab swords I thought it worth capturing for Library. I can see Yats, Flyssa and some sort of scimitar...

Information Description = Painting entitled "A Tale of 1001 Nights" Oil on canvas, 19'' x 27 7/8'' |Source = http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=6674 |Date = 1873 |Author = Gustave Clarence Rodolphe Boulanger.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely excellent input Ibrahiim!!! and what you well point out are the profound connections between symbolism, design and iconography in the decoration and styles in ethnographic arms.
In tribal tradition and folk religion there are many interpretations and perceptions pertaining to these interesting elements seen on these arms, and indeed many are considered in accord with western or European counterparts.
The cross as noted, typically is perceived as representing the four cardinal directions, and many symbols and devices have certain ecumenical meanings. Also, celestial symbolism is key in tribal folk religion and various representations in talismanic or allegorical themes.

A great book on much of this, in this case jewelry, is "Africa Adorned" by Angela Fisher. She spent many years in field work studying these very topics with the jewelry of these tribal peoples and shows the significance of varying symbolism and beliefs.

Another aspect of profound associations between material culture, artistic iconography and symbolism on weapons is with items such as rugs and textiles. One instance of this is a book titled "Afghan Amulet", and cannot recall author. It concerns a triangular shape used through Central Asia and its inherent symbolism. Also, Tarussuk & Blair, in their encyclopedia of weapons in the reference on 'flyssa' I believe, note the strong connection between the symbolism in designs in Berber rugs and the apotropaics on the weapons.

Also as noted, the crescent moon was a well known symbol long before Islam, much in the way the Star of David was in use long before becoming associated with Judaism, and the cross symbolically known long before Christianity. In most cases, understanding the application of symbols or devices must be considered in context, as most simple geometric symbols have far different meanings in their various cultural spheres.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Absolutely excellent input Ibrahiim!!! and what you well point out are the profound connections between symbolism, design and iconography in the decoration and styles in ethnographic arms.
In tribal tradition and folk religion there are many interpretations and perceptions pertaining to these interesting elements seen on these arms, and indeed many are considered in accord with western or European counterparts.
The cross as noted, typically is perceived as representing the four cardinal directions, and many symbols and devices have certain ecumenical meanings. Also, celestial symbolism is key in tribal folk religion and various representations in talismanic or allegorical themes.

A great book on much of this, in this case jewelry, is "Africa Adorned" by Angela Fisher. She spent many years in field work studying these very topics with the jewelry of these tribal peoples and shows the significance of varying symbolism and beliefs.

Another aspect of profound associations between material culture, artistic iconography and symbolism on weapons is with items such as rugs and textiles. One instance of this is a book titled "Afghan Amulet", and cannot recall author. It concerns a triangular shape used through Central Asia and its inherent symbolism. Also, Tarussuk & Blair, in their encyclopedia of weapons in the reference on 'flyssa' I believe, note the strong connection between the symbolism in designs in Berber rugs and the apotropaics on the weapons.

Also as noted, the crescent moon was a well known symbol long before Islam, much in the way the Star of David was in use long before becoming associated with Judaism, and the cross symbolically known long before Christianity. In most cases, understanding the application of symbols or devices must be considered in context, as most simple geometric symbols have far different meanings in their various cultural spheres.

Salaams Jim.. Shukran ~ Like the Southern Cross insignia .. This thread I believe points in several directions! It is difficult to say where it will turn next since encompassed in the mix are Flyssa, Yatagan, Italian, East and West Mediterranean weapons Tuareg, Moroccan, Algerian, Zanzibari and Sri Lankan swords and daggers... to name but a few.

I have looked into the library but I cannot seem to find your dissertation but it must be in archives somewhere ... from 2003...I think.. :shrug:

I hope we can keep everything under one roof so we can build a major thread from this foundation.

The book you mention is "The Afghan Amulet" by Sheila Paine.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The seller described it as an Asian saber, but it looks too much like a Takouba style blade to be anything but North African. It's going to be awhile before it arrives here but I thought I'd post a few pictures from the auction.

Judging from the odd shape of the end of the blade and the way the fullers look truncated at the tip, I'm guessing this was cut down from a larger blade. The handle looks like it's riveted on, which is odd. Since the fullers look forged and the moon and crosses on the blade look stamped, is it safe to assume this was a European blade made for export to North Africa?

The maker's mark is a man in the moon with three crosses on each side. I found a Nimcha with similar markings, 4 crosses instead of three though, here (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985)

There's no sheath with it, so I'm not sure If it's possible to determine exactly where it came from. Any ideas? Or what I should call it? Was it a Nimcha at some point? Is it possible to tell where the blade was manufactured or how old it is? I got a pretty good price on it and nobody bid against me, so I hope I didn't get another dud.

Salaams Blue lander... How are we doing?... Perhaps you would like to chose a direction to spearhead our approach ... pick a sword please ? Its your thread... :)
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[blue lander]

My head's still spinning from all the cultural context you've been providing Ibrahiim! Hopefully I should have the blade in my grubby little hands within the next week or so, and I can take more detailed pictures that might provide more clues. As it is, I've learned immensely from following this discussion and I thank you all for sharing your knowledge.

As a side note - I bought another African sword that looks to have a European blade. This one doesn't look cut down, I assume it's some sort of 18th or 19th century cuttoe or hanger. There appears to be a maker's mark near the hilt but you can't quite make it out from the pictures. Some sort of triangle? There may be some writing there too. I don't know if it's interesting enough to warrant discussion like the s'boula, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyways. If I can make out any details on the blade that look interesting I'll of course start another thread.

[CharlesS]

Probably should start a new thread with a different sword.

Looks to me like a variation of a western Sahara "Manding" sword, and if those are hammer marks I think I see, you are likely right that this one is not cut down, but a native made blade.

[blue lander]

True - I'll start a new thread when it arrives. Doesn't really pertain to the matter and hand, I was just eager to show it off :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

True - I'll start a new thread when it arrives. Doesn't really pertain to the matter and hand, I was just eager to show it off :)


Salaams blue lander~ If you feel it has the slightest relationship to Moroccan Berber or Tuareg weapons then give it an airing and see where it goes... Its an African sword after all but...how did it develop and from where?..

The first place to look is Forum Library where you will find two full pages on Mandingo...( Just type in Mandingo )Whilst it appears that the development of the hilt was an African tribal thing it certainly has similarities across the whole vast region but in terms of blades where they have been commonly imported Manding blades are predominantly French but some are German...as well as the home grown variety; Simply reflecting the dominant French presence in the region and the effects of the massive German trade in blades in the 19th C. into Africa ~

So lets have a look at the web where I just found a nice article at http://art-of-swords.tumblr.com/post/28755203884/the-mandingo-sword-the-mandingo-is-a-sword-common

Quote." The Mandingo Sword. The Mandingo is a sword common for the region of Africa. African swords were developed in different countries and different ethnic groups in Africa as war, hunting, cultural and ethical weapon and used. The actual name of the weapon is a expression of this type of weapon, with a particular ethnic group is assigned.

The Mandingo sword has a curved, single edged blade with and overall length of about 78 cm. The blade does not have a central ridge or hollow ground. This part of the sword is narrower in the middle and is slightly rounded. The booklet has no parry while the hilt is covered with wood and copper. The knob is designed as a ball.

These weapons are well known for their leather-work and the work applied to the scabbards. The iron work skills are less well developed. Many blades are taken from European weapons such as sabers and cutlasses. The beautiful leather work and the distinct discs and the guardless hilt, it is quite possible these may have diffused of course to other regions to the west.

While the Baule are a distinct tribal group to the west, it is important to observe that ‘Malinke’ is a variant term applied to the ‘Mandingo’ (also Manding, Mandin, Mande). In Fulani these weapons are called ‘kota’, this being the apparent term in Fulani for sword (probably generally applied).

In general, these remain primarily considered Mandingo weapons, and from regions in Mali. These were of course invariably mounted with European sabre blades of 19th century, and most typically French with the colonial presence there. Also, the Mandingo sword used by the ethnic groups of the Malinke and Mandingo".Unquote.

I suggest that this combined with Forum libraries superb details on Mandingo wraps this one up... Next ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug: Couple of maps about now to focus the minds... :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All !Whilst Forum ponders the above maps and someone throws in an idea on which sword or dagger to link next in this extraordinary tale of design influence ... perhaps a quick vignette on exactly what is meant by Piracy ... The Barbary Pirates...in the Med . Based where? AND IN WHAT?

The Pirate Republic of Bou Regreg
The Republic of Bou Regreg is located on the west coast of Morocco. The area has been settled for thousands of years – Phoenecians, Romans, Berbers (including the Tuareg like Tariq, the harem master), and later Morisco refugees fleeing persecution in Christian Spain.

In the 17th century, the small towns of Sale and Rabat united to form the Republic of Bou Regreg, named for the river that flowed between the two towns. Later, it became associated with the Ottoman Empire.

The republic became a center for trade and supported the piracy in the Strait of Gibraltar, Spain, and other areas. The walled cities and the gated harbor were very useful to the pirates, providing safe harbor and a market for their captured treasures. Those treasures included plundered gold, silver, spices, silks, fabrics, and slaves which were brought back to the city-state by the pirates after raids on European shipping vessels and towns.

In one decade they took 6,000 slaves and the equivalent of about $5 billion dollars in goods.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug: Khoummya

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams~ So I present the Khoummya of Morocco.

* There is a superb rendition on http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/

* Members are encouraged to type koummya into Forum Search for more than 4 pages of great threads on this subject.

My initial note suggests that this should be the easier of the group to pin down as we have almost already done so earlier. The configuration of the hilt generally follows that of the Genoui or Janwi of Genoa. Many of the swords and daggers mirrored in Morocco and surrounding regions are inspired in design from those of the City States of Genoa, Rome, Venice and Constantinople.
Khoummya;
Full length: 40, 5 cm, blade length; 22 cm

Dagger used by the Muslim peoples of North Africa, particularly in Morocco. Characterized by its slightly curved smooth steel blade, which is half edged, and four fifths counter edged.

The Koummya is always worn visible over the tunic (dejellaba), on the left side, hanging vertically up to waist-length by a long wool string (baldric), tied to the rings of its sheath. This sheath is worn with its point turned towards the front.

I illustrate below the link in the design of hilt between the straight Genoui and the curved Koummya.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug: Worth considering how these equipments moved over such vast distances...The Camel Train. :shrug:

Camels were able to eat and drink without stopping...and where permanent overnight facilities existed in towns and cities the stop over places or Caravanserai's were built with wells at their centres. It was not unusual for such trains to consist of over 1,000 animals which could deliver huge loads over long distances.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Camel.

The technical specifications for this "ship of the desert"; A 4 legged HGV, economical, environmentally friendly beast of burden, personnel carrier, heavy lift and purveyor of trade goods by desert caravans often in teams of more than 1000 animals. It can travel at 20 kph over considerable, grueling distances and barely does its heart rate increase. It can cover 150 kilometres a day and can carry a huge load of up to 200 kg. Remarkably camels were fed and watered on the move therefore big caravans rarely stopped.

Consumption; Very economical! Fuel capacity is either a couple of jerry cans of water every two days or 30 gallons about every 10 days to two weeks so long as it can nibble up greenery on route between times and the odd handful of straw and perhaps some "shire" or wheat from a canvass bucket. They get bad tempered without that extra supplement. It lives for twenty to twenty five years though during that time can give birth only about 10 times.

Remarkably a camel can operate hot… allowing its body to heat up to 115 degrees without sweating (thus preserving fluid). Peculiar urine chemistry 3 times more efficient than other animals allows them to limit fluid loss so that they pass urine far less in hot weather. Specially developed kidneys allow them to drink low quality, brackish, salty water often found in remote desert wells. Their nasal passages are so twisted that the air cools 10 degrees going in and dries as it exhales conserving water by preventing dehydration. The camel sucks in water like a huge vacuum cleaner and can ingest between 20 and 30 gallons in one session of a few minutes. Water is stored not in the stomach but in the tissue cells and blood. Their oval red blood cells can expand 240 times their volume. Humans are in serious trouble when they lose about 5% of body weight through water loss however a camel can drop 25% without any problems. They simply shrink. Their extremely long eyelashes protect them from the glaring sunlight and in sand storms they simply shut their eyes and can see through the lids! Built in anti sand storm and sunglasses!! Somehow they can scent water miles off and will make a beeline straight for the water source. Overnight at camps they can be left on their own untethered but with their front feet tied so that they can wander a little to eat their favourite desert thorn tree food. Given half a chance, however, the camel will run off!

The soles of the feet are calloused so they don’t get hot feet as are the elbows on which they rest when crouched down. Its teeth resemble those of a lion with huge incisors which are used to tear down branches of acacia thorn trees so that the more juicy leaves can be nibbled and eaten. The camel has specially designed mouth and lips to carefully and delicately separate thorn from leaf. Great care must be taken especially in the colder mating season since getting between a bull and a cow can prove fatal. A "Galaisa" or lead bull camel can be very vicious at this time.

Camels get sick for no apparent reason and can suddenly just drop dead. Toxic plants and bad water are their main enemies. After exhausting journeys they need proper rest since they have no mechanism for indicating that they are tired. They are extremely unpredictable and just when you think you have an animal trained it will run away or even try to bite. They are susceptible to fright at the least excuse and a seemingly subdued animal can turn into a wild, bucking, hissing, spitting, biting, mad, demonic beast in a flash for no apparent reason. The apparent lack of concern for their owners makes them easy to steal. Milking can be dangerous as the technique of milking is by the herdsman standing on one leg and leaning against the animal's body; made hazardous as the animal may then try to move or chew the person doing the milking. Mating often has to be assisted by the herdsmen since the male and female are very clumsy animals and giving birth is also hazardous since the newborn can be injured falling to the ground or being trampled by the mother. The male organs of the bull camel are also ridiculously small making mating very difficult.

Camel meat and milk is delicious and virtually free from cholesterol though normally young camels are bred specially for this purpose as are cows in other parts of the world. Camel meat is usually reserved for wedding feasts. The camel has more than 160 words in Arabic underlining its importance in the regions cultural heritage. The word Jamal can mean either beautiful woman or camel. Dreaming of a camel is a good omen. Bedouin are buried in the skin of their favourite camel to be near it in their afterlife. In mythology the stars are said to be grazing camels that are at eternal peace.

Without it the great Bedouin tribes would never have survived and trade around Arabia would have been almost impossible. The huge caravans of camel laden with all manner of goods would not have traded between the great souks of Cairo, Damascus, Aleppo, Marrakesh, Shiraz, Sanaa and Mecca to name a few. They were the vital transport link between the Silk Road to China, Persia, Istanbul, Africa, Yemen and the Arabian Peninsula covering thousands of desert kilometers in years gone by. It is for this reason that the Camel has the well earned name; "Ship of the Desert".


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

P.S. So you may have thought , like I did, that 1,000 camels in one single train was pretty huge... Think about this... The camel trains across the Sahara Desert were often 25,000 strong !!

[blue lander]

Dang, they tried to deliver the package today but I wasn't here to sign for it. Oh well, I'll get it Monday. That should give me some time to absorb some more of this thread.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dang, they tried to deliver the package today but I wasn't here to sign for it. Oh well, I'll get it Monday. That should give me some time to absorb some more of this thread.

Salaams blue lander... Absorb this! :)

I would like to look at Nimcha. :shrug:

As always I urge reference in the direction of Forum Library first. Comparison Moroccan and Zanzibari is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17160&highlight=zANZIBAR+SWORD

There is a great picture of a similar hilt on the sword of Tobias Blose a Captain in the Great Bands of London in the famous book by the late Antony North (Islamic Arms and Armour). Interestingly this sword plus a variation in the hilt guard etc. surfaced in Zanzibar...with the design addition of a hilt d ring and other variants appeared in the Red Sea regions...It seems plausible that design influence may have played its part in the construction of the Sri Lankan Kastane.

Spanish involvement in the design flow across the Med seems certain as http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10636&highlight=hilts seems to indicate ...

Since Spain was largely involved in the South America discoveries (what I mean is that a Papal act assured Spain of its rights in that region whilst doing the same for Portugal in the Indian Ocean) there are also styles of sword there with obvious linkages. It seems inevitable that a certain amount of dizziness will become apparent as sword transition from the Med influences far eastern designs across the Pacific from the Americas...
The pictures below;

THE PORTRAIT PICTURE; ...Portrait of Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud ben Mohammed Anoun, ambassador to England from the King of Barbary (Morocco), unknown artist, England, c. 1600. Oil on panel.

(Detail below suggests the link between the swords appearing on the waist of English officers and nobles in that period see Tobias Blose note.)

From Wikepedia; Quote."Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud, Moorish ambassador of the Barbary States to the Court of Queen Elizabeth I in 1600.
Following the sailing of The Lion of Thomas Wyndham in 1551, and the 1585 establishment of the English Barbary Company, trade developed between England and the Barbary states, and especially Morocco. Diplomatic relations and an alliance were established between Elizabeth and the Barbary states. England entered in a trading relationship with Morocco detrimental to Spain, selling armour, ammunition, timber, metal in exchange for Moroccan sugar, in spite of a Papal ban, prompting the Papal Nuncio in Spain to say of Elizabeth: "there is no evil that is not devised by that woman, who, it is perfectly plain, succoured Mulocco (Abd-el-Malek) with arms, and especially with artillery".

In 1600, Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud, the principal secretary to the Moroccan ruler Mulai Ahmad al-Mansur, visited England as an ambassador to the court of Queen Elizabeth I.Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud spent 6 months at the court of Elizabeth, in order to negotiate an alliance against Spain. The Moroccan ruler wanted the help of an English fleet to invade Spain, Elizabeth refused, but welcomed the embassy as a sign of insurance, and instead accepted to establish commercial agreements. Queen Elizabeth and king Ahmad continued to discuss various plans for combined military operations, with Elizabeth requesting a payment of 100,000 pounds in advance to king Ahmad for the supply of a fleet, and Ahmad asking for a tall ship to be sent to get the money. Elizabeth "agreed to sell munitions supplies to Morocco, and she and Mulai Ahmad al-Mansur talked on and off about mounting a joint operation against the Spanish". Discussions however remained inconclusive, and both rulers died within two years of the embassy." Unquote.


Two triple photos of the same swords from library.

Golden Kastane set with Gems and scabbard.

The Omani Zanzibari Nimcha worn as a badge of office thus for comfort perhaps? no D ring but with dragons head quillons (the more practical fighting version sometimes having quillons that support a d ring)

Buttins famous page included.

The gentleman in sandy yellow robes wearing a Moroccan sword ...

Wearing blue robes~ Portrait of Mohammed ben Ali Abghali by Enoch Seeman
Inscribed: Portrait of his Excellency Admiral Hadge Abdulcader Perez, Ambassador from the Emperor of Morocco to the Court of St. James November 1723 – September 1724 and again July 1737 – July 1741
Circa 1740.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Flyssa !

To my eye the Flyssa looks like it has.. Yatagan ... influence.

Salaams all..From the Atkinson collection; Quote."The flyssa is the typical knife of the Kabyle people, a branch of the Berbers who reside in Algeria and Morocco. The name “Flyssa” is drawn from the “Iflissen Lebhar”, one of the major tribal confederations of the Kabyle. The eastern most group of the Kabyle is the At Zouaou who live in the Djurdua range of Little Atlas mountains in NE Algeria This tribe that has specialized as the armorers and creators of the flyssa. Among young men of the Kabyle, the acquisition of his sword (or dagger in later periods) was a sort of rite of passage. Elaborate symbolism decorates the flyssa, and these symbols (amuletic geometric figures) are a key to the folk religion in these regions".Unquote.

History
The Kabyle are Berbers located primarily in Morocco, Tunisia, western Libya, and the coastal mountain regions of northern Algeria. The Africans call this entire region of North Africa Maghrib. "Berber" comes from an Arabic name for the aboriginal people west and south of Egypt.

The Kabyle live in the rugged, well-watered al-Quabail Mountains. These inaccessible peaks (some as high as 7,000 feet) have long been a refuge for the Berbers, forming a base of resistance against the Romans, Vandals, Byzantine, and Arabs.

The Flyssa exists as a dagger and sword both. There is a child weilding a Flyssa sword at #41 third sword from the right... Also pictured are Yatagan.

Below some more including;

Long and short Flyssa versions.

A '"Khodmi bu Saadi" a sister knife to the Flyssa.. with the reddish scabbard.

Yatagan for comparison on the female model posing for the Orientalist artist.

"The Arms Merchant" by Rudolph Ernst completes my vignette showing the design link with Yatagan.

The short, curious, very curved other variant of Algerian Flyssa.

On a red carpet background two Flyssa.

That rounds off my Flyssa details..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ For an excellent comparison and cross breed see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17081
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[blue lander]

It finally arrived! It's in terrific shape but the hilt's a little wobbly. I'll take better pictures later, but I took pics of two things I immediately noticed (apologies for the blurriness)

1: there's diagonal lines along the spine by the hilt. They only continue for a few inches, the rest is flat.

2: the back scale of the hilt is definitely wood, but I think the decorated front side might be bone or perhaps wood covered with something?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Note to Library;

To round off the Moroccan Nimcha I would like to offer a four artworks as under;
Eugene-Delacroix "Soldier of the Moroccan Imperial Guard-1845.
DELACROIX_Eugene The Sultan of Morocco and his Entourage_1845.
Nimcha Artist and date unknown Morocco. 19thC.
Constant le Caid 1873 . Morocco.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[blue lander]

Also of note - the wooden scales have shrunk enough that I could peer between them with a flashlight. It doesnt look like the tang extends past the first rivet, the one beneath the leather wrap. The back two rivets are just for holding the scales together. The wood's so old, I think the only thing keeping it together is that leather wrap. You can see some damage to the wood beneath the leather where it's torn away so I assume it was added later as a repair.

[blue lander]

Some less blurry photos of the crosses, the moon, and the diagonal lines on the spine.

I also noticed the part of the spine with the diagonal lines is actually a bit thinner than the rest of the blade. I wonder if it was filed down as part of it's transformation into a s'boula.

Edit: on closer inspection the whole spine has file marks, they're just fainter on the rest of the spine

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Some less blurry photos of the crosses, the moon, and the diagonal lines on the spine.

I also noticed the part of the spine with the diagonal lines is actually a bit thinner than the rest of the blade. I wonder if it was filed down as part of it's transformation into a s'boula.

Edit: on closer inspection the whole spine has file marks, they're just fainter on the rest of the spine

Salaams Blue Lander, Thank you for the clearer pictures. As I have noted the crosses are representing the Southern Cross. They must have been done locally by Berber craftsmen. I have the same impression of the moon strikes... locally done (not at source in the case of European produced blades)..

The moon takes on a quite different meaning (though, broadly, it is talismanic in both the Eastern and Western sense) I suggest that on North African swords it represented the new moon and as the design crept across the Sahara region into the red sea it changed slightly to combine moon with and without facial features and moon with stars struck like asterisks or dots etc etc...So that though the basic marks were put by local smiths they used local designs...thus they morphed from one region to another...Where the funny face moon was copied from Caucasus and other European swords these can be seen to be quite rudimentary copies and it is assumed they just copied them willy-nilly as moon shapes..Squigles, spots and all !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all Note to Library ... Some quotes about Moroccan daggers from the famous ...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

* Stone 1934 p310
"In Morocco the blades are straight and single-edged for about half their length from the hilt, and then curved and double-edged for the remainder. They seldom have ribs. The hilts and scabbards are usually of brass or silver, often the front is of silver and the back of brass. The scabbards frequently curve so much that the ends point upwards. There are almost always large ornamental lugs on the sides that carry large rings to which a cord is fastened by which the knife is hung from the neck. The hilts are usually made entirely of metal and have large, flat pommels. The side of the hilt and scabbard that is outward when the knife is carried is always elaborately, though crudely, decorated. The opposite side is much simpler, in fact, in many cases it is entirely plain."

* Spring 1993 p24
"There are a number of Moroccan variations of the type of dagger collectively known as janbiyya which form an essential element of the formal attire of every adult man in Arabia and the Maghrib countries of North Africa. As with the nimsha, the blades of Moroccan daggers are frequently fitted with European blades, including examples made in Sheffield and Birmingham in England, and Solingen in Germany. The koummya, with its distinctive 'peacock's tail' pommel, is found in a number of variant forms in the Sous region and the Atlas mountains of Southern Morocco. Like the nimsha and the Tuareg takouba, the koummya, is worn on the left side by means of a baldric slung over the right shoulder. The Arabian janbiyya, by contrast, is normally worn in a belt on the front of a man's stomach."

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all... and about Moroccan Nimchas
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

* North 1985 p29-30
"The classic sword of the area is the 'Nimcha'. This has more than a hint of European influence especially in the form of the hilt, which is fitted with a knuckle bow linked to curved quillons. These hilts are found mounted with straight and curved blades[;] the straight blades were usually imported from Europe. This type of sword continued in use until the 19th century."

* Spring 1993 p24
"The nimsha includes elements from both Islamic and European swords in a synthesis which is nonetheless distinctively African. A diagnostic features of many Islamic swords is the cap pommel set at an angle at the top of the grip. In the nimsha this appears as an enlarged and ornate extension to protect the back of the hand. The grip, often of rhinoceros horn or ivory traded across the Sahara, sometimes included a hollowed-out section to accommodate the little finger. By contrast, the form of the four quillons, three curving downwards and the fourth bent back to form a knuckle guard, is suggestive of southern European models, particularly the fifteenth- and sixteenth-century Spanish swords whose influence may also be seen among those weapons produced in the region of the ancient kingdom of Kongo on the lower Zaire river. The nimsha began to appear from the late sixteenth century and was at first mounted with straight, European blades often of Venetian or Genoese provenance. A shorter, curved version, of entirely local manufacture, was developed during the seventeenth century for use as a naval cutlass."

* Stone 1934 p469
"NIMCHA. An Arab sabre with a knuckle guard rectangular at the base with drooping quillons on the opposite side. It is also used in Morocco."

[blue lander]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I just saw this curved Shiavona with nearly identical star/moon markings as my blade.


http://sword-site.com/thread/731/curved-schiavona

The quality or detail of the marks on that blade don't seem any fancier or nicer than he ones on mine. I wonder if the marks on mine were done in Europe when it was forged rather than in Africa as most people assume.

[Rick]

The moons are quite different; the crosses seem a better match. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Great to see this one pop up again... The beauty of Forum Library...

Blue Lander your hilt is Rhino...see the bunched spaghetti endings? Get a powerful light onto the hilt and it should illuminate up nicely.

Is it one of the hilt forms or perhaps a Gurade hilt? I show to compare a Gurade Hilt ...

The question about the cross and moon ..is interesting... The Cross shown is the famous style both in North African and Spanish form already noted earlier but outlined here;

Quote" Cross of Saint James
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cross of Saint James as used by the Order of Santiago.

In heraldry, the Cross of Saint James, also called the Santiago cross or the cruz espada,[1] is a charge in the form of a cross. It combines a cross fitchy (the lower limb is pointed, as if to be driven into the ground) with either a cross fleury[2] (the arms end in fleurs-de-lys) or a cross moline[1] (the ends of the arms are forked and rounded).

Most notably, a red Cross of Saint James with flourished arms, surmounted with an escallop,[2] was the emblem of the twelfth-century Spanish military Order of Santiago, named after Saint James the Greater. It is also used as a decorative element on the Tarta de Santiago, a traditional Galician sweet."UNQUOTE.

See the thread by Fenris at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3985 where an almopst identical blade is shown ...and below ... but on a Moroccan/Algerian Nimcha.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Cross of Agadez: Very similar design to that of the above cross..Certainly the design above would have been attractive a Talisman to the Tuareg tribals in the Nigerian and neighbouring regions...see https://www.google.com/search?q=tuareg+cross&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXtO2k2urMAhXDSRoKHYmeDY0Q_AUIBygB&biw=1366&bih=655#imgrc=FKPww-tZxufI3M%3A for many other examples.

The European Link. I note a host of different sources for the use of the moon from Toledo and Solingen not as makers marks but more as a trend/fashion in blades with popular marks. Various centres used these including the workshops of Juan Martinez and Peter Munich in Toledo and Solingen respectively in the mid 17th C. I see no reason why these could not have joined the copied marks popular in North Africa and some may well have arrived there already adorned..

I add the important reference on Forum at http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/takouba.html

[Rumpel]

Is it one of the hilt forms or perhaps a Gurade hilt? I show to compare a Gurade Hilt ...



While I don't dispute the NW African/Tuareg attribution, I agree with Ibrahiim on the similarity to Gurade hilts, and in turn, to Sudanese arm daggers. In Blue Nile, historically a 'borderlands' transitional zone between Sudanic and Ethiopian cultural areas ( see https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/fileadmin/ISCA/JASO/2013/1-James.pdf eg), arm dagger-style hilts are still occasionally seen on straight-bladed short or medium-length swords, giving a visual effect similar to a straightened gurade and very much like the sword in question.

Coincidence, I'm sure, but interesting.

The leatherwork on the hilt also gives it a vaguely Sudanic/Sahelian aspect, but not quite like anything I've seen before.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

While I don't dispute the NW African/Tuareg attribution, I agree with Ibrahiim on the similarity to Gurade hilts, and in turn, to Sudanese arm daggers. In Blue Nile, historically a 'borderlands' transitional zone between Sudanic and Ethiopian cultural areas ( see https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/fileadmin/ISCA/JASO/2013/1-James.pdf eg), arm dagger-style hilts are still occasionally seen on straight-bladed short or medium-length swords, giving a visual effect similar to a straightened gurade and very much like the sword in question.

Coincidence, I'm sure, but interesting.

The leatherwork on the hilt also gives it a vaguely Sudanic/Sahelian aspect, but not quite like anything I've seen before.


Yes good point and the likelihood of design influence across a broad band of countries is seen...Here is a trade map or two...European trade blades were awash in North Africa and access to Red Sea routes also opened the floodgates of weaponry into that region by sea ..There are other power houses at work such as the entry into the Indian Ocean by the Portuguese French and English and the big hub generators of trade like Zanzibar, Comores, Islands India and the big slave land and sea routes therein. The massive East India companies pumped into the region were the EIC and the Dutch both equally powerful outfits and then on top of that the pilgrimage routes all making for brisk trade around the regions.

On links between Ethiopia and the Tuareg around the Niger region please see

https://addisabram.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/touaregs-from-hear-to-timbuktu/

QUOTE" Tuaregs are probably distant relatives of Ethiopians, Egyptians and Moroccans. Maybe Christianity had a certain influence on them: Tuareg blacksmiths sculpt beautiful Crossess. The crosses, worn as pendants were originally worn by men and passed from father to son. Most of the cross designs are named after oasis towns. The Ethiopian influence in them is obvious.

The Tuareg belong to the large Berber community, which stretches from the Canary Islands to Egypt and from the Mediterranean Sea to the Niger River. They are the only Berber speaking community to have preserved and used the Tifinagh writing. Nomads of vast arid lands, the common denominator of the dispersed Tuareg is the language, Tamasheq. Consequently, they identify themselves as Kel Tamasheq (people of Tamasheq). The Tuareg who had originally lived in the northern tier of Africa but were later chased southwards by successive Arab invasions".UNQUOTE.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The trade map above can best be put into perspective by viewing the brilliant treatise on http://iainnorman.com/