iron spear indian ?

[weapons 27]

It measures 45 cm long,

I think what would be Indian

can you give me your opinion

[weapons 27]

Once cleaned

[Runjeet Singh]

An interesting item, and well made, but I don't think Indian, I think African. A wild guess would be Congo - but I'm sure there are others who could be more exact.

I can see why you would say Indian though!

Regards,
Runjeet

[VANDOO]

THE DESIGN ON THE BLADE STRIKES ME AS AFRICAN ALSO PERHAPS A PROCESSIONAL SPEAR HEAD FOR A STANDARD BEARING POLE. THE WORKMANSHIP IS DIFFERENT THAN I USUALLY ASSOCIATE WITH CONGO SO MAYBE ETHIOPIA OR HAUSA TRIBE FROM NIGERIA OR MOORISH. JUST MY BEST GUESSES I AM SURE THOSE MEMBERS MORE KNOWLEGABLE IN THE FIELD WILL BE ABLE TO GIVE BETTER INFORMATION. WHATEVER IT IS ITS VERY WELL MADE AND I LIKE IT. :)

[weapons 27]

An interesting item, and well made, but I don't think Indian, I think African. A wild guess would be Congo - but I'm sure there are others who could be more exact.

I can see why you would say Indian though!

Regards,
Runjeet
hi runjeet
It is the job of the socket which makes me say this, I've never seen African spear with a socket if worked and rencorced, I attached a picture with some Indian Sockets photos..I'm wrong can be!

[Pieje]

Never seen such type from Congo.

[thinreadline]

The blade decoration certainly looks more African than Indian.

[Runjeet Singh]

I agree that the socket looks Indian (that's why I could understand why you thought Indian) but the decoration and needle point makes me think African - it seems our fellow forum members agree - now it's just a case of somebody identifying where in Africa!!

Regards,
Runjeet

[Iain]

Wild stab in the dark says Ethiopian. I've seen other double and triple headed spears from that general area.

[colin henshaw]

I vote for Sierra Leone - 19th century.

[thinreadline]

Here are some pics of a spearhead with similar characteristics to the central head in question ..... not very clear but note similar blade decoration . I have always taken this spear head to be African , though do not not which region.

[Richard G]

This thread might help.
Regards
Richard
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16839&highlight=bagirmi

[Iain]

This thread might help.
Regards
Richard
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16839&highlight=bagirmi

Yep! That particular double headed example has left my collection but that's the one that had me thinking down Ethiopian lines...

[colin henshaw]

From W O Oldman "Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographical Specimens" 1907 - listed as "Mendiland, used by Chief Lobo"

[weapons 27]

From W O Oldman "Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographical Specimens" 1907 - listed as "Mendiland, used by Chief Lobo"
Thank you colin for your research...
so it is sierra leone

[Iain]

From W O Oldman "Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographical Specimens" 1907 - listed as "Mendiland, used by Chief Lobo"

Great stuff Colin! Wonderful to have a basis when seeing this kind of blade and shaft design now. :)

I'm always amazed on the forum how someone seems to recognize almost anything!

[Jim McDougall]

Great stuff Colin! Wonderful to have a basis when seeing this kind of blade and shaft design now. :)

I'm always amazed on the forum how someone seems to recognize almost anything!


Totally agree Iain!!!
It is fascinating to see how closely paralleled Indian and African arms can often be, and we well know a good number of these such as the haladie used in Sudan, deriving from Rajasthan origins and via Syria to N. Africa.

My first inclination on this spearhead would have been S. India due to the spaced collars on it, but in seeing the geometric linear decoration would have gone directly to Africa.

That particular Oldman reference, one precursor to Stones venerable work, has of course its own flaws in degree, despite being overall quite reliable.
I recall one item shown as a Tibetan short sword used as a reference to one same I acquired many years ago, and claimed from the British expedition there c. 1903? I later discovered it was in fact a Dahomean hwi and an identical example documented and provenanced in a Belgian museum from c. 1850.

[colin henshaw]

These spears seem a bit atypical for African weapons, in fact they remind me more of European polearms, such as the "Langue de Boeuf"...

[Iain]

These spears seem a bit atypical for African weapons, in fact they remind me more of European polearms, such as the "Langue de Boeuf"...

Given the Portuguese trading post and fort established on the coast since 1495 that seems quite plausible. :)

Similar perhaps to the complex hilt swords seen in coastal Congo from the same influences.

[colin henshaw]

Given the Portuguese trading post and fort established on the coast since 1495 that seems quite plausible. :)

Similar perhaps to the complex hilt swords seen in coastal Congo from the same influences.

Yes, good point Iain. Sometimes we tend to forget how early these contacts were made, on the coastal areas at least. I wonder if any others have views on this interesting topic of European influence on West African traditional weapons, or examples to post ?

[Edster]

Very nice spear! I have no idea where it may be from. However, an interesting and perhaps diagnostic feature is that the smaller outer blades appear to be a separate piece that slides over the central blade. This was probably done when red hot and the hole contracted and held it in place on the central blade as it cooled. Is that unique or a feature of other spears? None of the other examples shown seem to share it.

Just a thought,
Ed