Transitional Rapier/Smallsword with massive Hilt

[templarnight]

Hi

I have just bought this Sword.

Although I am not really interested in Rapiers or Smallswords to collect, this one for some strange reason completely grabbed me and hence why I bought it.

The Hilt is very large, especially the Shell Guard.

Is this a fighting Sword or purely some kind of statements symbol - look at the size of my sword - kind of thing.

[Jim McDougall]

Very nice colichemarde, which although not exactly a transitional rapier, did descend from them. The key characteristic of the colichemarde blade is the pronounced forte, which was designed to parry heavier blades. These were indeed fighting swords which were often worn in court atmospheres and intended for duelling, but it seems that officers often wore them as well.

It was long held that the term 'colichemarde' was a corruption from the name of one Graf von Konigsmark, however the form is known to have existed from the latter 17th century, prior to his time*. It would be interesting to learn more on the etymology of this term.

* see my next entry

I cannot make out the inscription on the blade, but the general hilt appearance and spirally gadrooned pommel I would think would place this one in the third quarter 18th century into early 19th. These dont really seem to come up much, so I would say a very worthy acquisition, and hope more will be forthcoming from others out there.

[fernando]

Nice sword :)
A close up picture of the blade inscriptions is a must; let's see what we can read int ;)

[Jim McDougall]

Apparantly there is a quite clouded history of these unique sword blades, as with the etymology of the term. It is claimed that the term is a French corruption of the name Konigsmark, but according to Aylward (1945) there is no record of the term 'colichmarde' in contemporary usage in either French or German. However more recently the Larousse 'Dictionaire Universalle' has the word 'Konigsmark' listed as a term for a type of German sword blade.

Even more perplexing is the presumed originator of the blade form, Count John Phillip von Konigsmark (1665-1694?), a Swedish noble known as a soldier of fortune, duellist and apparantly philanderer, which seems likely the root of his reputation as a duellist. He is believed to have been murdered in 1694 during a scandal in the Royal court in London.

Aylward notes that these blades seem to have passed out of fashion in the later part of the reign of George I, but believes this pertained more to civilian versions of these swords (c. 1720s) and they continued favored by military officers (George Washington had one). He states further that these are known into the 1790s, perhaps even later, as one he mentions has the cypher of George III, again military regulations do not specify any type of sword using this term.

Hope this might be helpful.

[M ELEY]

Very nice smallsword! I've been wanting to pick one up with the colichmarde blade. These were even popular with naval officers, I'm told. I especially like the large 'fighting' hilt. The guard seems almost flat vs cupped and the large pas de' an (spelling!?) indicates pre-1800. I envy you!

[templarnight]

Heres some pics of the legend.

Some sizes -

Total length - 117cm

Blade - 97.5cm, 3.9cm wide at Forte.

Shell Guard 11cm square

[fernando]

A beautiuful mid-end XVIII century French sword, with a beautiful Solingen blade ;) .


.

[Jim McDougall]

The inscription looks like it is in French, and seems to be the name of a maker but a Solingen blade. Latter 18th century.

[fernando]

The inscription looks like it is in French, and seems to be the name of a maker but a Solingen blade. Latter 18th century.
Like in post #7 ? :o

[TimW]

The back side says:

De la manufacture de la marque au ROISIN??? à Solingen = Of the manufacture of the brand ROISIN??? in Solingen

The other side seems to be referring to the owner, not the maker. In my opinion it states:

Marchand = dealer
Fournisseur ... = dealer / seller of materials

[Emanuel]

Hello,
Lovely sword :)

I see:

De la
Manufacture
De la Marque
au Raisin
a Solingen

"au raisin" with grapes, hence the etched image of grapes below.

and

Lepelon
Marchand
Fournisseur
Rue
Des Carmes
au Coin
De La Rue
De Lemoine
A Rouen

"Lepelon, merchant-dealer, Des Carnes Street, at the corner of De Lemoine Street, in Rouen"

A quick google on Lepelon brings up a court document from Juin 16, 1827 (http://books.google.co.in/books?id=tddIAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA524&lpg=PA524&dq=Lepelon+Rouen&source=bl&ots=spfOJfuhdy&sig=DgnBEaM7HOa7rDIb41cHPFjjua8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zpYPUdGKJsvJrAel9IGACQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Lepelon%20Rouen&f=false) on a merchant named Lepelon in Rouen going bankrupt.

I can translate the relevant passage if anyone is interested.

You can therefore trace the sword to the street Des Carmes in Rouen:
http://maps.google.co.in/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=X3f&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41867550,d.bmk&biw=1600&bih=806&q=rue+des+carmes+rouen&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x47e0ddd631450fa9:0x394fb5efc9fe7473,Rue+de s+Carmes,+76000+Rouen,+France&gl=in&sa=X&ei=R5gPUYbxKY2ErQfKxoCACw&ved=0CC8Q8gEwAA

But no sign of Lemoine Street. It might have changed names at some pint in the last 180 years, but the name makes sense considering the nearby cathedral and all the streets named after saints.

Here is an similar one with identical inscriptions from an old auction, lot 398: http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/as270612/page14.html

A bit of google search on Solingen blades marked with grapes brings up a number of documents concerning Solingen swordsmiths working for the London Cutlers' Company
See:
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=nVU0XH5W1U8C&pg=PA104&dq=solingen+swords+grapes&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kJ0PUYb9N4KzrAeG5oC4Dg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=solingen%20swords%20grapes&f=false
and
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=u18NkBy2IfoC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=mesters+to+masters+grapes&source=bl&ots=dmMcakdR-5&sig=Q_kQN0EUer1crqoLz1poamvD2Ws&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HJ0PUa6gDsWGrAfisYDwBA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=mesters%20to%20masters%20grapes&f=false

Some more research on French sites suggests that blades manufactured by miscellaneous small cutlers in Solingen were marketed and sold in bulk under common marks, such as the graves, and engraved with the name of the dealer than placed the orders for them.

Regards,
Emanuel

[Andreas]

[QUOTE=Emanuel]
Lepelon
Marchand
Fournisseur
Rue
Des Carnes
au Coin
De La Rue
De Lemoine
A Rouen

Hello,
Just a small correction, not fournisseur but fourbisseur = furbisher.
Regards
Andreas

[kronckew]

at a guess 'rue des carnes' (meat street) is where the boucheries would have been. in the inscription tho, it looks more like 'carmes'

there is a rue lemoine near the jardin des plantes in rouen, south of the river.

however there is also a 'rue des carmes' north of the river :) they do not now intersect.

[Emanuel]

Actually, it's short for "l'Ordre des Carmes" or the Order of Carmelites.

[kronckew]

i've amended my post ;) my french is rudementary :) my german is a lot better tho.

rouen used to be part of england tho, until the french renigged on their deal with henry V after agincourt that he become king of france as well as england, and stole it back. richard plantagenet (aka 'the lionheart') used it as his capital. i gather he never actually spent much time in the british isles. he only spoke french in any case.

newsflash:

they just announced that richard iii, the last plantagenet king of england has been located hiding under a car park in leicester. henry tudor was not available for comment. as there is no statute of limitations in the UK, the crown prosecution service is still considering charges against richard for the murders of edward v and his brother richard, whose skeletal remains were discovered in the tower a few years back.

[fernando]

The back side says:

Marchand = dealer
marchand nm (commerçant) merchant, trader, seller n


Fournisseur ... = dealer / seller of materials
fourbisseur /fuʁ.bi.sœʁ/ masculin
1.(Rare) Personne dont la tâche est de fourbir, de monter ou de réparer des armes blanches pour les rendre plus brillantes.
furbisher / fuʁ.bi.sœʁ / male
1. (Rare) a person whose job is to polish, edit or repair swords to make them brighter.

[fernando]

..."au raisin" with grapes, hence the etched image of grapes below...
Good shot :cool:


Lepelon
Marchand
Fournisseur
Pas fourbisseur ? (sword trader) ;)

[fernando]

...Here is an similar one with identical inscriptions from an old auction, lot 398: http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogues/as270612/page14.html ...
Funny; i thought it was the same one :confused:

[GIO]

I agree, it is the same sword

[Jim McDougall]

WOW! Emanuel, beautifully done!!!
It is fantastic to see this kind of comprehensive research, observation and detail focused on all the forensics of a weapon, along with outstanding entries and discourse with others, who have responded very much in kind.
This is what this forum is all about!!!
I have honestly learned a great deal from these entries, and am most grateful to Templar for having posted this amazing example. It would seem that despite not having interest in rapiers and smallswords to collect, his acumen in recognizing significant importance in this example is resoundingly astute.

Thank you all gentlemen....absolutely textbook! :)

[Emanuel]

Yup it's fourbisseur, with what looks like the old spelling "fourbyseur" though.
My mind went ahead of me, I was sure I saw "fournisseur" with an old style "S".

So Lepelon placed the order for the "generic" Solingen blades, and mounted them in Rouen.

Didn't realize it was the same sword, didn't look too closely beyond the overall type and inscription. Similar swords with the identical inscriptions have popped up on other sites and fora.

Emanuel

[pappa-karlo]

Here is my swors with similar blade.