Cirebon buta bajang damaged ...

[henri]

I am curious to get your opinion on a hilt I have which is badly damaged .
This looks like a voluntary " mutilation " made by a previous owner but is there any reason to do so ? May be a relation to religious meanings ? But who can wear a so ugly hilt ?

[A. G. Maisey]

Probably natural cracking Henri.

Often happens when a pesi rusts and expands, but can also be caused by the wood cracking over time. If it was carved from improperly seasoned wood those cracks could have been there for a very long time.

[henri]

Thank you Alan for the reply . I was more talking about the fact the face and some parts of the buta bajang were removed probably with a sharp tool ...
This handle is probably old with natural cracking due to the age .

[A. G. Maisey]

Oh yes.

No explaining insanity Henri.

I haven't seen something like this previously, and cannot offer any explanation.

[Sajen]

Hello Henri,

I think that there are two possibilities for this. For the first one read this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10454. But I doubt that this is by your hilt the case. When I look to your pictures I think to see the traces of mouse or rat bites. This I have seen many times by indonesian wooden items. Indonesians eat with their hands/fingers and when they have touched after meal for example this keris hilt the taste and smell is still present at the handle and a hungry mouse/rat will try to eat it. I think this is the case by your keris hilt. Have a look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10715&highlight=mouse

Regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

I would vote for your explanation, Detlef .
Certainly does look like rodent gnaw .

[henri]

Thank you Detlef . Looks like you are right ! Most of the "bites" are uncontrolled . Probably some parts of this hilt were more or less spicy :)

[A. G. Maisey]

I like the rat theory.

I must admit I've never seen this, but its logical, and it certainly could happen.

[Sajen]

Thank you Detlef . Looks like you are right ! Most of the "bites" are uncontrolled . Probably some parts of this hilt were more or less spicy :)


:D :D Henri, you would be surprised how spicy not only indonesian people can eat but also animals. When you buy food in Indonesia at a warung (snack bar) you get it packed in paper with sambal (chili sauce) packed in plastic. You open all and eat it with your fingers. The sambal I am used to put at the paper. I have bought one time chicken with rice and sambal and have over the bones, some rice and some sambal. This I have given to a hungry dog. The dog eat not only the bones and the rice but also the very spicy sambal!! :eek: :eek:

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

I like the rat theory.

I must admit I've never seen this, but its logical, and it certainly could happen.


Hello Alan,

I have a shield from Halmahera which is heavily bitten from a rat at the handle area. Unfortunately I have given it to my friend for restauration so I can't take pictures. But will ask him for some pictures to show this.

Regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

Mice will eat the fanbelt in your car .
A keris handle would be haute cuisine .

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, I completely believe that rats and mice, and even cockroaches could do this sort of damage, but I cannot recall ever having seen it. I guess this is because with my own things I'm super careful to store in a way that prevents such damage, and when I'm looking at other things, for instance to buy, I tend to ignore items that have been damaged.

I always have things left in my house in Solo, and every time I come home to Australia I pack everything that I've left into plastic, then cardboard boxes, then plastic again and seal with packing tape. This would not stop a determined rodent, but my housekeeper is under strict instructions to keep my things safe, and she will stop the rodents.

On the subject of spicy and hot food, I get this sort of stuff to eat pretty regular --- not all the time, but maybe half the time. I reckon my wife can't eat anything, including chocolate cake and ice cream unless she has chillies with it. We go out to eat at a restaurant she takes a little plastic bag of birdseye chillies with her. In my garden there are currently 50 odd chilli bushes. Sambal with everything, including all western food, not just the Indonesian stuff.

[Sajen]

On the subject of spicy and hot food, I get this sort of stuff to eat pretty regular --- not all the time, but maybe half the time. I reckon my wife can't eat anything, including chocolate cake and ice cream unless she has chillies with it. We go out to eat at a restaurant she takes a little plastic bag of birdseye chillies with her. In my garden there are currently 50 odd chilli bushes. Sambal with everything, including all western food, not just the Indonesian stuff.


:D :D My wife is very similar in this case.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah. They're addicts.

[Rick]

Ghost Peppers ............ :eek:

[Loedjoe]

I have heard, as an 'explanation' for a piece missing from the nose of a hilt, that it was taken off for use as, or in, a medicine. This may be a way of explaining away damage, or may have some truth in it, especially if a piece is actually cut off, rather than broken? However, if a piece is used for medicinal purposes, why take it from the most obvious, highly visible part of the hilt? Medicinal use of a piece taken off the base of a hilt was mentoned by 'sipakatuo', 18 July 2009, in the thread 'Question about Bugis hilts'.

[Sajen]

I have heard, as an 'explanation' for a piece missing from the nose of a hilt, that it was taken off for use as, or in, a medicine. This may be a way of explaining away damage, or may have some truth in it, especially if a piece is actually cut off, rather than broken? However, if a piece is used for medicinal purposes, why take it from the most obvious, highly visible part of the hilt? Medicinal use of a piece taken off the base of a hilt was mentoned by 'sipakatuo', 18 July 2009, in the thread 'Question about Bugis hilts'.

Sorry, think that you this have understand wrong. The dent at the base by this handles is natural. Carved away pieces for medicine I have seen in up, not only at the nose. But frankly said this I never have seen by handles from Java. Only Bugis and Sumatra handles I have seen like this but very few.

Regards,

Detlef

[T. Koch]

Damn, that's a nice catch Detlef! The damage to the left side of the face and arm sure looks like a rodent went to town on this one.

Very cool and nicely spotted!


Cheers, - Thor

[Sajen]

Damn, that's a nice catch Detlef! The damage to the left side of the face and arm sure looks like a rodent went to town on this one.

Very cool and nicely spotted!


Cheers, - Thor


Hi Thor, the handle belong to Henri.

Regards,

Detlef

[henri]

I am not really proud of this one Thor and probably will go with other " ghost
handles " into a dusty drawer ! But ... what a lot I learned!
Thank you all for your comments .

[kronckew]

i love the dog story. my greyhound, millie, especially likes to have her food doused with thai sweet chili sauce (i buy it by the litre) with a dash of garlic paste & a dash of fish sauce. i also tend to pick out the red/green/yellow peppers from food & put them in the doggy bowl for her. it guarantees she will wolf it down twice as fast as usual. had some very spicy hot gravy from a jamaican chicken dish left over last night. in the doggy bowl it went. she adored it. she likes it a lot hotter than i do. :)

[T. Koch]

Hahaha ok, I see now how that could be misunderstood... :D

By 'catch' I meant exactly that it was very nicely seen, that the damage has indeed come from a hungry mouse - a sharp eye on your part, Detlef. :)

I love this place!


- Thor

[Sajen]

Hahaha ok, I see now how that could be misunderstood... :D

By 'catch' I meant exactly that it was very nicely seen, that the damage has indeed come from a hungry mouse - a sharp eye on your part, Detlef. :)

I love this place!


- Thor

Hi Thor, now I understand! :D My eyes without glasses not so sharp anymore. ;) But I have seen this sort of demage some time before by other pieces and in the small village where my wife come from on Halmahera the people direct told me how this sort of demage arise.

Regards,

Detlef