THE MARTINI HENRY.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ For a technical comprehensive analysis of this weapon please see www.martinihenry.com

This thread wishes to examine the route into the Arabian Peninsula and what changes were made to this rifle.

The Martini Henry when it appeared in about 1872 revolutionized infantry warfare. This British Rifle when used by trained soldiers was capable of over 20 rounds a minute. It must have been like issuing all the men with machine guns by comparison to its predecessor. Indeed one of the main problems was that because the 557 / 450 cal bullets were black powder a line of 50 men all firing at once could soon mask target acquisition with smoke.

However what the infantry had was an extremely powerful, easy to operate, very accurate, devastating at all ranges, fast fire, killing machine. So how did the Arabs get theirs and moreover what changes did they make to the weapon?

In Oman local gendarmeries and palace guards (Al Askiris) got issued weapons as the Martini itself began to be overtaken by better designs such as the Enfield and pre WW1; The SMLE Lee Enfield. (It is interesting to note that in 1914 Home Guard units were issued with Martini Henrys with which to shoot down enemy airships over London.)

By the late 1890s, therefor, a lot of weapons were tipping onto the local Arab market through import points like Muscat and Ajman. The locals loved this new weapon and named it "The Sommah". They had no need of a bayonette and found the woodwork, bayonette fitting, and extra long barrel quite cumbersome. By chopping the barrel by about 12 inches they lightened the entire system and found to everyone's amazement very little loss of accuracy or power. The weapon could still knock a man dead at 1000 yards and penetrate 18 inches or more of hardwood at short range except now it was much easier to carry and a whole lot lighter. They also modified the rounds for hunting since a full sized round after hitting a bird or hare left nothing much to cook! So they chopped the bullets in half as bird/small game shot. To engage with tradition often the butt was covered in wolfskin and for good luck silver was worked onto the barrel stock and butt. Often you find ramrods added to these Arabized weapons. Traditional bullet shaped kohl and steel spike containers copied the 577 cartridge shape and rounds were carried on a leather and silver decorated waist belt. So as not to waste anything cartridges were reloaded with gunpowder, re capped with new striker caps and re bulletted ~ a small industry developed refilling and recharging ammo.

By the turn of the 20th Century most Martini Henry marks were available and each type though generally called "Sommah" in Arabia were given extra other names. The weapon continued to be carried through the 40s and 50s and even until today though it has been slowly replaced by the Lee Enfield (called Canad) with both the First and Second World War weapons including the short muzzle Jungle Carbine (called Parachute) and these days by modern 22 rifles imported from Germany, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. (generically named Sectoon)

The first picture shows a quite nicely silver decorated "Sommah" and the middle weapon which is quite rusty is in good working order. The third is an excellent mark and is called a "Sultaniyah" recognizable by its flat topped heavy barrel and florally decorated main body. It has a peculiar safety catch (which doesn't work!) as well as the usual "loaded pointer" on the side. This is likely to be a civilian style hunter.
You can compare the ammo size with one or two modern rounds in the ammo picture.

In conclusion it can be said, therefor, that this famous British Army Rifle went into a time locked weapons freezer where it is still admired and respected as an excellent hunter in Oman and many parts of Arabia.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[estcrh]

Excellent information, thanks!

[kahnjar1]

Here is another silver and gold decorated Martini Henry in 577/450 cal with belt and foil cartridges. Later cartridges were drawn brass as shown in Ibrahiim's post.
If the rifles you show do not have British proof marks then it is likely that they were made in Pakistan by "backyard" makers. They are however of exceptionally good quality.
The one shown here falls into that category.

[colin henshaw]

Hi Ibrahiim

Great post, thank you...

I had a couple of these silver-mounted Martinis as wall decoration when I lived in the Gulf (early 1970s). One bought in Mutrah souk and the other from a shop in Al Ain (UAE). Both were ex-British Army examples, cut down. I did see some locals still carrying them especially in the interior, including on camel back, but by then the Lee Enfield .303 was more popular and used by night watchmen etc.

Best regards.

[adrian]

Hi Ibrahiim,
Some years ago a company in Oman - Historic Arms, Exhibitions & Forts LLC - restored many hundreds of longarms owned by the Govt there (Sultanate) that were in a decrepid state. As part of the process each was stripped, all markings & features recorded & a massive data base populated, many (the majority) were martini, "Sommahs". It is anticipated that the data base will be researched & published etc.

A small arms heritage museum was also contracted & completed in 2006 - 2007 at Birkat Al-Mauz. Not open yet as the ministry still has minor works to complete. One room there is devoted to the Martini in British service & how it was tribalised & adopted as the "Sommah", some very nice examples there. The museum is absolutely amazing - designed & set up by Dr. Christopher Roads (he was responsible for HMS Belfast on the River Thames in London & also for the well known Duxford Air Museum whilst he was deputy director general at The Imperial war Museum).

Also of interest, by the same company, is an equally stunning artillery museum at the impressive Al Hazm Castle, plus a smaller complimentary display at Barca Castle. The former completed in 2004 but still closed as the Omani's have some minor works to do there also & things move very very slowly indeed with their Govt departments when it comes to doing work.
If you are a student of such arms you could contact HAEF LLC & see if you can arrange to have a look at what they have been doing. I think you will be quite amazed at what has been done there.
Regards, Adrian
A few near the end of construction photos....

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
Some years ago a company in Oman - Historic Arms, Exhibitions & Forts LLC - restored many hundreds of longarms owned by the Govt there (Sultanate) that were in a decrepid state. As part of the process each was stripped, all markings & features recorded & a massive data base populated, many (the majority) were martini, "Sommahs". It is anticipated that the data base will be researched & published etc.

A small arms heritage museum was also contracted & completed in 2006 - 2007 at Birkat Al-Mauz. Not open yet as the ministry still has minor works to complete. One room there is devoted to the Martini in British service & how it was tribalised & adopted as the "Sommah", some very nice examples there. The museum is absolutely amazing - designed & set up by Dr. Christopher Roads (he was responsible for HMS Belfast on the River Thames in London & also for the well known Duxford Air Museum whilst he was deputy director general at The Imperial war Museum).

Also of interest, by the same company, is an equally stunning artillery museum at the impressive Al Hazm Castle, plus a smaller complimentary display at Barca Castle. The former completed in 2004 but still closed as the Omani's have some minor works to do there also & things move very very slowly indeed with their Govt departments when it comes to doing work.
If you are a student of such arms you could contact HAEF LLC & see if you can arrange to have a look at what they have been doing. I think you will be quite amazed at what has been done there.
Regards, Adrian
A few near the end of construction photos....

Salaams Adrian ~ That is very interesting and I wonder if the up coming arms and armour conference at Nizwa University in October is related to the adjacent museum you mention at Birkat al Muz(pool of the bananas) ? I will certainly look up the Muscat people to see what they have regarding antiquity
I have a few days in Muscat possibly next week and I want to hit the museums for fine detail on swords and spears. I will look at their guns at the same time. Shukran..
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim

Great post, thank you...

I had a couple of these silver-mounted Martinis as wall decoration when I lived in the Gulf (early 1970s). One bought in Mutrah souk and the other from a shop in Al Ain (UAE). Both were ex-British Army examples, cut down. I did see some locals still carrying them especially in the interior, including on camel back, but by then the Lee Enfield .303 was more popular and used by night watchmen etc.

Best regards.

Salaams Colin Henshaw, Indeed they still carry the 303 SMLE (Canad). Occasionally there are 303 black powder Enfields that superceded Martini Henrys and of course nowadays M16s are carried by official government guards. I always thought the big heavy SMLE were just too cumbersome for Omani men but they more or less adopted it from its inception and even a few pre WW1 jobs turn up.
The Bedu have a peculiar way of carrying the Martini Henry(and other rifles) which they sling upside down under one arm from the shoulder. In fact, this is really comfortable especially on a camel where the too and fro of the camel movement would otherwise have the weapon thumping up and down on the beast.. Another odd adaption is the gun bag made from goat leather which keeps all the dust off the weapon. It is also notable that they continue even today to carry the old silver powder flasks (talahiq) as a mark of tradition even though they are redundant as weapon accessories from a long gun retired many years ago "The Abu Futtilla". (The One with the Match)

All pictures from the "Thesiger" collection (highly recommended to Forum) except the gun (an Enfield) and bag on the floor of my office !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[adrian]

Salaams Adrian ~ That is very interesting and I wonder if the up coming arms and armour conference at Nizwa University in October is related to the adjacent museum you mention at Birkat al Muz(pool of the bananas) ? I will certainly look up the Muscat people to see what they have regarding antiquity
I have a few days in Muscat possibly next week and I want to hit the museums for fine detail on swords and spears. I will look at their guns at the same time. Shukran..
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim, Yes Nizwa is very close to Birkat al Mauz & the conference attendees will be viewing the museum there, that conference is being organised by Dr. Roads. HAEF have premises not far from Muscat, at/near Bowsher.
Adrian

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Adrian ~ That is very interesting and I wonder if the up coming arms and armour conference at Nizwa University in October is related to the adjacent museum you mention at Birkat al Muz(pool of the bananas) ? I will certainly look up the Muscat people to see what they have regarding antiquity
I have a few days in Muscat possibly next week and I want to hit the museums for fine detail on swords and spears. I will look at their guns at the same time. Shukran..
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim, Yes Nizwa is very close to Birkat al Mauz & the conference attendees will be viewing the museum there, that conference is being organised by Dr. Roads. HAEF have premises not far from Muscat, at/near Bowsher.
Adrian

Salaams Adrian ~ I'm determined to get into the conference ! Do you have any phone numbers to hand? Perhaps you may be able to PM me? It is interesting and I have just been given the inside info.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[adrian]

Salaams Adrian ~ I'm determined to get into the conference ! Do you have any phone numbers to hand? Perhaps you may be able to PM me? It is interesting and I have just been given the inside info.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim, yes I can give you contact numbers etc, please email me direct on adrian(at)stonehenge.com.au
Regards
Adrian

[Jim McDougall]

This is truly a fascinating and informative thread Ibrahiim, thank you!
While my focus has always been on swords, it is interesting and often surprising how much helpful data which pertains to them, even obtusely, can be gained from firearms production data.
I found a reference online "The Khyber Pass Martini" by Jason Atkin, apparantly a website with interesting data on these produced in Khyber Regions even into recent times by the Adam Khel and associated tribes in Khyber regions. I wonder how many of these would have been transported into Arabia, or would these have been strictly for local tribal use in Khyber areas?
Another interesting reference which might be helpful for research on this topic would be "The Lee-Enfield Story", Ian Skennerton, 1993.

Looking forward to learning more on these! and please keep us posted on outcome with museums and conference.

Shukran!
Jim

[rickystl]

Ibrahiim: Thank you for Posting. I really like these Arab decorated Martinis and Enfields. One day I will run across one for sale here in the States. :D

Kahnjar1: Every time I see your Martini and cartridge belt I keep asking myself: Why is that not at my house? :shrug: :D What a fantastic set!! Rick.

[rickystl]

Ibrahiim: Forgot to mention......Thanks for the photos showing the rifle carry method. I've never seen this before. Most interesting.

I do own one Martini. It's a civilian sporter made by the Field Rifle Co. in Birmingham around 1895. It's in .303 British smokeless. Barrel marked: "Nitro Proofed". It shoots very well. I have my cartridges loaded to pre-WW1 specs. The sling is original to the gun.

Thanks again for posting. Rick.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim: Forgot to mention......Thanks for the photos showing the rifle carry method. I've never seen this before. Most interesting.

I do own one Martini. It's a civilian sporter made by the Field Rifle Co. in Birmingham around 1895. It's in .303 British smokeless. Barrel marked: "Nitro Proofed". It shoots very well. I have my cartridges loaded to pre-WW1 specs. The sling is original to the gun.

Thanks again for posting. Rick.


Salaams rickystl Your Enfield looks immaculate whereas mine has been dragged overland behind various camels Im afraid!!

I don't think yours is a civilian jopb since it has a bayonet lug...?

I looked down the inside of the barrel of mine (at #7 above) the other day and .. oh dear ...it needs a serious clean. You will find various stamps on the body including the usual Enfield Marks and a capital E over the end of the barrel over the breach. There is also a date. BSA Factory Mark.The Crown Mark; V.R. Various proof marks including on the falling block cocking lever etc. This has to be one of the shortest military rifles (and most powerful) ever made. I have put a photo of the ammo; Black powder 303. The weapon was so short that no modifications were needed for use by the smaller statured Arab end users where they even retained all the woodwork and the bayonet lug, though, the blades themselves were discarded.
Photos show the E mark and original Ammo in belt compared to Lee Enfield 303 ammo(above)which arrived shortly after with the famous, new, magazine fed, Lee Enfield SMLE ..thus making this a redundant weapon available therefor to the various guard units and civilian use throughout the East.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This is truly a fascinating and informative thread Ibrahiim, thank you!
While my focus has always been on swords, it is interesting and often surprising how much helpful data which pertains to them, even obtusely, can be gained from firearms production data.
I found a reference online "The Khyber Pass Martini" by Jason Atkin, apparantly a website with interesting data on these produced in Khyber Regions even into recent times by the Adam Khel and associated tribes in Khyber regions. I wonder how many of these would have been transported into Arabia, or would these have been strictly for local tribal use in Khyber areas?
Another interesting reference which might be helpful for research on this topic would be "The Lee-Enfield Story", Ian Skennerton, 1993.

Looking forward to learning more on these! and please keep us posted on outcome with museums and conference.

Shukran!
Jim

Salaams Jim ~ Thank you for your post. I have noted the important references and will look them up. As it happens there are a couple of Khyber chaps only across the street from us. They work in a small weapons workshop refitting woodwork and repairing old rifles including abu futtila. Its true that we tend to link the manufacture of these weapons to Afghan sources but everyone forgets the other side of the mountains in and around the Khyber Pass and Peshawar regions where there were dozens of workshops making stuff. Some of the locally made long guns could out shoot and out range the British in the 19th C ; most notably in the battle with the 44TH Regiment of Foot. For sure Afghan/Khyber manufactured weapons leached out around the adjoining regions and as far as here and Yemen however they are easier to spot and often had mistakes on the spelling but there are several that pass muster and some which are as good as or even better looking than originals!

The normal dead give away of the trigger guard being flimsy looking as on other long guns doesn't apply to the Khyber made Martini Henry simply because those parts were obtainable from other bastardized weapons and from imported parts. If the main body could be knocked up it would be a simple matter to add the other bits and pieces. How they made the barrels, however, is beyond me !

What I find poignant regarding gunpowder weaponry is that it is inside this timezone that so much changed regarding blades. Indeed the fog caused by these guns hides the demise of many a hand held weapon including the spear, sword and bow. The spear (probably the most important Arab weapon) virtually fell off the map as it was essentially superceded and couldn't be iconized as it was too clumsy whilst the bow and arrow vanished... despite the fact that it was faster than the gun and remained so until the discovery of the magazine fed rifle after 1900. Gunpowder weaponry mainly through the advent of rifle and cannon points to the demise of the Omani Battle Sword and could be responsible for the green light being given for the long flexible Omani dancing sword in about 1744 / 1800. (A date I defensively place as initially the Busaidi dynasty start date; 1744)

The gun in the Rifle configuration therefor has a lot to answer for (Pistols never really took off here) The Rifle on the other hand filled the role of spear and bow and for hunting was excellent whilst it was also devastating at closer ranges and thus largely retired the sword (but not always)

Both the dagger and sword have retained a "traditional place" within Arab society as "badges of office" and "head of the family"status symbols.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Note To Forum Mutrah Souk Guns; 1 Nov 2012.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ The idea originally was to have Martini Henrys right the way around my dining room... I need a few more !
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[RhysMichael]

From Theiger Vol 5 I think it is a Martini

[RhysMichael]

This may be one also

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This may be one also

Salaams RhysMichael ~Yes there are a lot of Martini Henry in Wilfred Thesigers books. This one could be either one of those or perhaps an Enfield black powder 303 which came just after the Martini Henry ~ Looking at his gunbelt they dont seem to be the big Martini Henry Cartridges but may be 303.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[RhysMichael]

Great information and I really enjoyed this thread thank you for sharing the information Ibrahiim

[kahnjar1]

Salaams RhysMichael ~Yes there are a lot of Martini Henry in Wilfred Thesigers books. This one could be either one of those or perhaps an Enfield black powder 303 which came just after the Martini Henry ~ Looking at his gunbelt they dont seem to be the big Martini Henry Cartridges but may be 303.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
The Martini was also made in 303 cal

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Martini was also made in 303 cal

Salaams, Never saw one ... though I'm sure you are right...

They carried the Martini Henry and the 303 black powder Enfield as well as the First and Second WW SMLE . including the WW2 jungle carbine version and the K98k German Army WW2 issue etc etc .

Both Bin Gabaisha and Bin Kabina are pictured carrying either the SMLE and Martini Henry.. as is Thesiger variously and he also gifted Martini Henrys to them. The picture may even be misleading in that the belt of ammo and the weapon are unrelated... and just for the picture.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kronckew]

the martini-henry was present for one of the worst disasters in british military history. the defeat at islandlwana in 1879. one of the accepted reasons for the defeat of the british armed with these rifles, aside from arrogance, was the cartridge. the foil had a nasty habit of crushing, especially after the rifle had been fired rapidly and heated up, resulting in a massive jam. 1300 brits dead. one contested opinion was the quartermasters did not distribute ammo fast enough, and the troops ran out of ammo. an effect of the rifle's massive rate of fire (compared to earlier rifles). wellington broke the old guard at waterloo with three volleys, and he had smoothbore muskets.

it took more for the zulus. zulu distraction tactics and sheer stupidity of lord chelmsford and his officers ensured the brits were too widely separated for the martini to be effective.

at rourke's drift at the end of the battle of islandlwana, 4000 zulu attacked 139 brits with martini's. chard made better use of his troops behind primitive defences. he repelled the zulu by more skilful use of the martini's firepower - with plenty of ammo. the movie zulu, while one of my favourites, and one that made michael caine a superstar, showed the zulu repeatedly engaging in hand to hand combat at the barriers. in truth, most of the zulu were killed at 400-600 yards. the martini in skilled hands handled correctly showed what it could do. (the zulu had about a thousand rifles and some ammo themselves, having borrowed them earlier in the day, thus actually being better equipped than the brits. but they were not proficient with them. most were not at that later battle anyway.) the zulu king had told his brother not to attack any fortified positions. his brother ignored that at the drift.

the thin cartridge walls were thickened in later production runs.

the rifles are still being made. not only in the west for enthusiasts, but in pakistan where they have been skillfully copied by hand for a hundred years or so. (tho the ak-47 has become even more popular)

it even comes in pistol:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

the martini-henry was present for one of the worst disasters in british military history. the defeat at islandlwana in 1879. one of the accepted reasons for the defeat of the british armed with these rifles, aside from arrogance, was the cartridge. the foil had a nasty habit of crushing, especially after the rifle had been fired rapidly and heated up, resulting in a massive jam. 1300 brits dead. one contested opinion was the quartermasters did not distribute ammo fast enough, and the troops ran out of ammo. an effect of the rifle's massive rate of fire (compared to earlier rifles). wellington broke the old guard at waterloo with three volleys, and he had smoothbore muskets.

it took more for the zulus. zulu distraction tactics and sheer stupidity of lord chelmsford and his officers ensured the brits were too widely separated for the martini to be effective.

at rourke's drift at the end of the battle of islandlwana, 4000 zulu attacked 139 brits with martini's. chard made better use of his troops behind primitive defences. he repelled the zulu by more skilful use of the martini's firepower - with plenty of ammo. the movie zulu, while one of my favourites, and one that made michael caine a superstar, showed the zulu repeatedly engaging in hand to hand combat at the barriers. in truth, most of the zulu were killed at 400-600 yards. the martini in skilled hands handled correctly showed what it could do. (the zulu had about a thousand rifles and some ammo themselves, having borrowed them earlier in the day, thus actually being better equipped than the brits. but they were not proficient with them. most were not at that later battle anyway.) the zulu king had told his brother not to attack any fortified positions. his brother ignored that at the drift.

the thin cartridge walls were thickened in later production runs.

the rifles are still being made. not only in the west for enthusiasts, but in pakistan where they have been skillfully copied by hand for a hundred years or so. (tho the ak-47 has become even more popular)

it even comes in pistol:

Salaams ~ Although its full of inacuracies Rourkes Drift "The Film" is still worth watching...I find myself saying no they didnt do that or yes thats accurate of no they didn't sing that... etc etc

The power of the Martini Henry was incredible being able to penetrate thick trees and walls and with the full rate of fire at 21 rounds a minute it must have been devastating ~ as you point out at far greater range than on telly ! It could, in fact, knock a man off his horse at 1,000 yards. Thats the first time I've seen a pistol like that Enfield... :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kronckew]

wa'alaikum salaam, ibrahiim

zulu indeed has many inaccuracies. first off they were not a welsh
regiment yet. i still love the song 'men of harlech' with it's gleaming spearpoints.

...and hook was not a drunken scoundrel. and many more of course.

the impressive displays of the impi shield wall on the top of the surrounding hills always gives me a laugh. they did not have enough zulus, so they nailed about 10 shield cut-outs to poles with a real zulu either end and they now had 5 times the 'man' power :) they re-used previously 'dead' zulus in the closeup crowd shots. i heard the zulus had a grand old time making the movie.

the final battle scene at the redoubt with the spitting bugler & volley fire scene is my favourite, as is the narrative at the very end with men of harlech again in the background. i watch it every time it comes on TV (and have the dvd). i've seen it dozens if not a hundred times. in spite of, and maybe because of, the inaccuracies, it is still one of the most stirring movies.

i was highly amused when i saw 'gladiator' (the russel crowe one in 2000) and heard the chanting germans in the initial battle scene. the use of the zulu singing sound track was a tribute.

Ngithanda isiZulu. Hamba kahle!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is an old picture of Omanis with Martinis..by A. R. Fernandez displayed on http://butlerslife.blogspot.com/2012/08/blacks-in-arabian-peninsula-afro.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug: Interesting Martini Henry from Islamic-arts.org below...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Rourkes Drift !! I just couldn't resist...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I don't see many 303 Martini Henrys but they do exist... heres one.

[trenchwarfare]

The above mentioned pistol, reminded of the one I have. While most of these are in .303 caliber, this one is in a .25 caliber "Rook" round. It turns out, that the British military used a modified rook cartridge as an indoor gallery/practice round. I think this one was specially commissioned as a target pistol. The rear sight I added, to replace the plastic pistol scope it was sporting when I got it.

I think this is an older model, as the fake British markings are quite crude. The guns being made today, have markings, that are spot-on. What's sad is, they take original Royal Afghan Arsenal made rifles, remove the Afghan markings, and replace them with British ones. I guess the GIs prefer British guns.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The above mentioned pistol, reminded of the one I have. While most of these are in .303 caliber, this one is in a .25 caliber "Rook" round. It turns out, that the British military used a modified rook cartridge as an indoor gallery/practice round. I think this one was specially commissioned as a target pistol. The rear sight I added, to replace the plastic pistol scope it was sporting when I got it.

I think this is an older model, as the fake British markings are quite crude. The guns being made today, have markings, that are spot-on. What's sad is, they take original Royal Afghan Arsenal made rifles, remove the Afghan markings, and replace them with British ones. I guess the GIs prefer British guns.

Salaams trenchwarfare..Amazing weapon. Here are a few I found on the web. It seems these were also made up the Khyber....as were many of the rifles.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[trenchwarfare]

Yes, these are very interesting pistols. Wish I hadn't let the other one I had, get away. Rule number one at a gun show: If you don't wanna sell it, leave it at the house!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ I have to record the following detail en masse~ since it is vital for our records~ from the newspaper The Muscat Daily, by M. Najmuz Zafar,
October 15, 2012.

Quote".At the end of the 19th century tribes across the Middle East region - even as far away as Afghanistan - were labelled by the firearm they preferred, ie, a Snider tribe, or a Martini tribe. With Muscat being the small arms centre or entrepôt for the whole region and beyond, and its special preference for Martini Henrys, it was perhaps a Martini tribe..

One Belgian offer in 1907 alone was for 50,000 absolutely new military Martini Henrys along with 8mn cartridges. In 1908 in Muscat there were 5,000 Martinis marked ‘Martini Masqat’, probably of German origin but priced at only R40 (290bz; in those days Indian rupee was the local currency in Oman) with 100 rounds, while those with the Enfield Factory roundel still visible on the butt commanded R70 (508bz).

Presenting these facts and more at the recently concluded annual conference of the International Committee for Museums of Arms and Military History (ICOMAM) in the wilayat of Nizwa, Dr Christopher Roads threw light on historic arms like the abu futilla and the somma (Martini Henry), which are part and parcel of a cultural heritage unique to Oman, but surprisingly little is known about their origin.

Dr Roads for the last 15 years researched and restored thousands of historic firearms and artillery in the sultanate, and is the managing director of Historic Arms, Exhibitions and Forts.

From 1996 to 2002, he covered most of the country in search for historic ordnance and small arms. “One of the messages that came over clearly almost everywhere was that ‘these are our arms and they have always been here’. It is therefore reasonable to presume that the arms that we eventually gathered in for maintenance or restoration reflected past local circumstances.

"That they were, in effect, the arms that the arms trade, centred around Muscat, had provided. Obviously there would have been some dilution, some exchange with neighbours but, by and large, they reflected earlier preferences,” he said.

Going into the history of small firearms, Dr Roads said that no flintlock guns of any description seem to have been found in Oman. Documentary sources endorse the view that most tribes went from matchlock muskets (abu futilla) straight to breechloading rifled arms, usually the Martini Henry, though in some cases it may have been a quantum leap from matchlock to the .303 Lee Enfield.

“No pistols have been recorded except the Mauser (C96) 7.63 at the Bait al Zubair Museum and which belonged to the father of H E Mohammed al Zubair, although many were offered for sale in Muscat.

"For example the Mauser C96 was on sale for R74 (537bz) with 400 rounds thrown in - there were no fewer than 500 of these for sale. Personal armament was the musket or rifle plus sword and khanjar. Distribution of types today reflects, as one might expect, trading routes and trading ports and a strong conservatism.”

Turning to the matchlock abu futilla, he said it is hard to pinpoint the origin of these deeply fluted barrels with prominent poinçons (proofmarks). “Our quest for Portuguese examples of these early matchlocks has failed both in specimens and illustrations. So the legend that their very distinctive fluted barrels demonstrate a Portuguese origin remains exactly that.”

However, he added that the most striking fact is that these matchlocks with side plates resemble quite markedly some matchlocks from the Scinde, (the British spelling for the province of Sindh when they ruled it during 1850s). “With the Sea of Oman connections to Gwadar going back many centuries, it seems more likely that Scinde designs would be found on the Omani coast.”

Coming back to Martinis, Dr Roads said that the greatest density of Martini Henrys were in the area around Muscat and the lowest around Salalah. “Ex-French military arms are far more frequent at Mirbat, Sadah and Taqah castles near Salalah than anywhere else in the country.”

On his exploration drives around the sultanate in various castles, Dr Roads found Martini Henrys in large numbers. In Ras al Hadd castle, there were 34 arms. All, save one, were Martini Henrys and the odd one was a .303 Martini Enfield.

In another isolated castle in Mintirib, where alongside 20 Martini Henrys nestled five serious matchlocks, three percussion trade guns, one Gras and, strangely, one Snider.

“Sniders are rare in the sultanate’s castles, but not in the country. All those encountered are of BSA 1875 make and believed to have been originally intended for Portuguese-occupied West Africa. A large number, perhaps exceeding 1,000 were in one of the royal armouries and today they are common on the walls of officers’ messes.”

In the relatively isolated castle of Sunay Silah on the coast near Sur, 26 Martinis and one Gras were found. But one of the Martini Henrys was a Mark IV long lever - the first to that date encountered in the sultanate and still there are very few indeed. Perhaps more interesting was another Martini Henry, Serial number 8282, which still had its full military forend and original cleaning rod inside it.

Also on the coast is Quriyat. It shares with Sunay Silah the presence of a complete British military Martini Henry made by the NA & A Co Ltd in 1880. “From the superb quality of its silver work this must have been the prized possession of a sheikh who had imported it privately.”

In Quriyat only 13 guns were found, ten being Martini Henrys. In Jaalan Bani bu Hassan castle, out of 51 guns, all are Martinis, save five Gras and four trade guns from an earlier era.

At Nakhal castle there were 43 guns which interestingly included a number of Belgian Francotte arms, including their superb Martini look-alikes, but with the entire mechanism immediately detachable within a frame (CA059). All the arms here were Martini types and a strong reminder of the immense extent of Belgian sales.

At Rustaq, not far away but buried rather more deeply in the mountains, there were about 78 arms, predominantly Martinis, but with five matchlocks and a very interesting percussion ultra-small bore birding gun.

And at Jabrin, far away on the other side of the mountains and therefore very isolated, all the guns were also Martinis except for one Gras, one Werndl, one Mauser 1898 and one Winchester 1866 (CA49). The Winchester bears no marks to elucidate its journey there. Perhaps it has come via Saudi Arabia from Turkey.

At Nizwa and in its region over 120 arms were noted. Again Martinis were dominant but 23 were jezails and a Mauser 1898, two Lee Enfields, two Werndls and a Gras rounded off an impressive selection." Unquote.

For interest I have added below The Muscat Arms Seller artwork that could be as late as the early 20th C..and which I found as part of the modern portfolio of literature at Barka Fort last week.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Muscat Martini cal .303., reputedly for the Sultan of Muscat's Camel Corps.
Regards,
Norman.


Photos, Highwood Classic Arms.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi,
Muscat Martini cal .303., reputedly for the Sultan of Muscat's Camel Corps.
Regards,
Norman.


Photos, Highwood Classic Arms.


Salaams Norman... Thats a fine bit of kit... my Martini 303s look like they went in to bat against Boudicea... Yours is in pristine condition and has superb woodwork.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

See http://www.klm-mra.be/icomam/downloads/issue07.pdf for general background on Martini Henry in Oman etc :shrug:

[Pieje]

Hi all, I accidentally came by an interesting 15 pages long article “Les Martini-Henrys de Mascate. Le commerce des armes à Oman 1900-1914”…in French, but translated from Wilsey, R. Martinis from Muscat. The Arms Trade in Oman 1900-1914 published in Classic Arms and Militaria (n°XIX, fasc. 4 & 5). Here some images I scanned…

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Pieje, Great pictures !!! Westley Richards... I handled one once... It has that peculiar second switch at the left ...I think for safety...can't remember...Bayt Rudaydah has the small arms museum in it...I will visit there. The Turkish, Lee Enfield, Peabody and other marks are very nice to see... :shrug: Thanks for showing those...More !!!! :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

In another report from the same source as #34 there are interesting notes on abu futtila and Martini Henry as well as on cannon (which I have recorded on the Omani Cannon thread) viz;


By M Najmuz Zafar
January 22, 2013
Muscat - Bayt Rudaydah Birkat al Mooz..

Quote''The centre houses 24 of the most treasured matchlocks of the Royal Armouries of the UK, which are on loan to Oman, apart from small arms like abu futilla (matchlock muskets) and the somma (Martini Henry) from around the Sultanate.

The entire collection of small arms at the centre was showcased to the delegates who had come from around the world at the conference of the International Committee for Museums of Arms and Military History (ICOMAM) held in Nizwa in October 2012. The delegates vouched for the collection’s uniqueness and variety, said Christopher Roads, who manages the centre at Bait ar Rudaydah.

“Oman's position is unmatched in terms of its vast reservoir of historical military arms,” said Roads, who has been in the country for the last 15 years and has contributed in restoring thousands of small arms, cannons and carriages that form the pride of Oman’s forts and castles. Roads said the conference helped shed new light on Omani firearms. “Till now it was believed that Omani matchlocks found around the coast had Portuguese origin, but that theory could not be verified directly.

However, after visiting Bait ar Rudaydah, one of the experts at the conference suggested that the matchlocks from the coasts could have European-German origin. This could be an interesting feature for a new research.” The matchlock which constitutes the vital link will be on show in the proposed limited viewings. According to Roads, another leading world expert who attended the conference said that one of the rarest cannons of British origin is present in Oman.

“The cannon belongs to the English Commonwealth era, which was from 1649 to 1660. After Charles II came back to power in 1660, he ordered defacing of all arms and cannons which had the conjoined shields of England and Scotland from the Commonwealth era. The cannon in Oman could be one of the only two known to exist from the period.

But this needs to be verified through tests before making a final judgement.” Roads believes that Oman has an amazing collection of muzzle-loading cannons and carriages from more than ten countries. “There are 27 different carriages at Barka Castle and Al Hazm Fort and there are plans to add another six. With Iberian cannon and carriages, the variety in Al Hazm far exceeds those existing in Spain and Portugal combined together.”

Roads said there is immense tourism potential in the sector. “There are about 2mn European and American travellers interested in military history, and if we want them to come to Oman we should preserve the military heritage in its original form.”Unquote.

[Norman McCormick]

... my Martini 303s look like they went in to bat against Boudicea...


Scary lady, a bit like my wife, possibly a bigger calibre needed, perhaps something from your Forts of Oman. :eek: :eek: :eek: :D
My Regards,
Norman

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Scary lady, a bit like my wife, possibly a bigger calibre needed, perhaps something from your Forts of Oman. :eek: :eek: :eek: :D
My Regards,
Norman

Salaams Norman,
Or like Mons Meg the great old cannon from your castle in Edinburgh !!
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The details at http://www.martinihenry.com/faq.htm are interesting...particularly on the Khyber version...etc.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

As a general addition of text to a picture I posted a while ago and an excuse to fire the Martini Henry back into discussions~ For those not familiar with the weapon please see http://www.martinihenry.com/



A RARE EUROPEAN GOLD AND SILVER WIRE-INLAID SPORTING RIFLE FOR THE OTTOMAN MARKET, 19TH CENTURY

The Martini-Henry rifle with slender barrel of cast steel and wooden sighting plate with gold wire-inlaid floral motifs, the wood stock and butt plate with silver wire-inlaid ornamentation, wood butt plate also comprises carving of military devices.

Martini rifles were supplied to the Ottoman forces in large numbers. Following the victory of the Prussians in Europe in 1866, the Ottomans instituted major military reforms inaugurated by Hussein Avni Pasha in 1869. As a result, in the war against Russia in 1877-8, Ottoman troops
were armed with Martini Henry and Snider rifles as well as the new metal cartridge which the Russians did not yet possess.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:) Below Henry+11th+Hussars+Gordon+Relief+Expedition in the black and white photo.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

For a fascinating paper on how the flow of guns developed in Arabia in the late 19thC. with some emphasis on Martini Henrys but involving politics and intrigue at the time and a distilled appreciation of the bigger regional picture ...

see http://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2623&context=open_access_etds

The author suggests collusion in using the slave trade to mask the ever growing arms trade used to import huge amounts of rifles through Arabia for Afghanistan among other recipients... :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Sketch of Arms being unloaded at Muscat. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Picture of the business end... :shrug: Amazingly cutting the woodwork back and sawing several inches off the barrel and thereby losing the bayonet lug...this weapon lost hardly any accuracy and to my knowledge represents one of the lightest and most powerful combat rifles ever made !

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The best reference on Martini Henry is still I believe http://www.martinihenry.com/ and with a very good Bibliography. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This is about as ornate as they come second only to the gold inlaid weapon on this thread earlier.....The Martini Henry. :shrug:

[Jon MB]

I have a Belgian export Martini Henry, with Omani-type decoration, but in the meantime here are two pics from Nizwa: A man strolling in the street with a Martini, maybe to have repaired or to sell, and then some merchants, with the son tackling the rusted breech of a Lee Enfield No.4 MK1 with a pocket knife.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Great pictures and typical of a scene in a gun shop in Oman with several hundred years of technology all clashing together !!! :shrug:

[A. G. Maisey]

This is probably off topic, but I love the Martini action, and I just couldn't resist throwing this comment into the pool.

There is a small version of the Martini action that is known as the Martini Cadet, in Australia it was used to train school cadets in use of the rifle, which at that time was considered to be essential for the defence of our country, the idea was that every man in Australia should be able to handle a rifle with competence.

In about 1958 the Australian defence forces sold these Cadet Martinis and they became available to the general public through firearms retailers. When they first hit the market they sold for ten shillings each. After a few months the price went up to twenty shillings (one pound) and it bounced around at that level for a long time.

As soon as they hit the market I bought 6 or 8 of these Martinis, I had a Sydney gunsmith named Don Black do conversions on them to various calibres --- .218Bee, .219 Zipper, and in the early 1960's to a rimmed version of the .222 Remington, plus a few others. One of these Remington conversions was done by a precision gunsmith named Bill Marden, it used a sleeved barrel and for a short time held a benchrest record for its weight class. I made the wood for all these conversions, used each one for a short time, then sold it.

Over the years I did perhaps as many as 20 or so Martini conversions. I've still got three, a couple of .218 Bees and a .22 rimfire.

I love Martinis, they are a purely beautiful action.

Apart from the Martini Cadets, I've also owned a couple of Hammerli Free Pistols, again, beautiful machines.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here are 3 I dug up off https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/a-trio-of-cadets-t9246.html on the web....

[A. G. Maisey]

Martini Cadet conversion, circa 1961, metal work Don Black, Lithgow barrel, chambered for .218K Bee (similar to Mashburn Bee), Pecar 4X scope, I did the stock.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Battle of Maiwand.

War: Second Afghan War

Date of the Battle of Maiwand: 27th July 1880.

Place of the Battle of Maiwand: West of Kandahar in Southern Afghanistan.

[kahnjar1]

This is about as ornate as they come second only to the gold inlaid weapon on this thread earlier.....The Martini Henry. :shrug:
Interesting stock shape on this one.......It strongly resembles the Albanian Rasak stock.
Was there a caption with this pic and if so what did it say?
Stu

[grendolino]

Interesting stock shape on this one.......It strongly resembles the Albanian Rasak stock.
Was there a caption with this pic and if so what did it say?
Stu

It is Rasak. Or rather Kariophili. The letters along the barrel are greek.

[eftihis]

It has a Greek inscription in Niello mentionimg the maker (decorator)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Yes it looks like a Greek Version of the Martini Henry...Meanwhile here is a weapon from up the Khyber. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Any ideas on the provenance on these?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Martini Henry Parts. For a lot of mixed detail on this weapon see https://www.google.com/search?q=martini+henry+parts&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=1XRYxKTAIAEIcM%253A%252CO90yetVTeYSkcM%252C_&usg=__vHFlcPdE7PYDqjIjhsQ-SfnRVKQ%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEjc7h1PfWAhVrK8AKHchKBAgQ9QEIPTAE#imgr c=QWFG5Oou22g3wM:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Interesting stock shape on this one.......It strongly resembles the Albanian Rasak stock.
Was there a caption with this pic and if so what did it say?
Stu


The Martini Henry was adopted by the Ottoman Empire and a number were highly decorated for VIP gifts see https://www.google.com/search?q=ottoman+martini+henry&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdmufA9ffWAhXHL8AKHSC_AbMQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=613#imgrc=z0NcRPQQ22K9dM:

[eftihis]

Here is another one

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ah nice... Oh I see the loaded indicator arrow is fitted upside down... :shrug:

[kronckew]

australian issue?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

australian issue?

HAHAHA ! :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THE INVENTOR; Alexander Henry was the Scot who developed the rifling for the Martini-Henry rifle.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The other Inventor Friedrich von Martini .

[Jon MB]

Some Pics..

Note Butt disk: End of a Kynoch cartridge?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

But probably the most important ...Mr Henry O. Peabody;

The Martini-Henry Rifle is a weapon of Empire. Unlike the Snider-Enfield it replaced, it was England's first service rifle designed from the ground up as a breechloading metallic cartridge firearm. It protected and served the British Empire and her colonies for over 30 years. This robust weapon utilized a falling block, self-cocking, lever operated, single-shot action designed by Friedrich von Martini of Switzerland. The barrel used the Henry Rifling System, designed by Alexander Henry.

Henry O. Peabody, an American, was actually the father of the Martini action. His design utilized an external hammer to strike a firing pin for cartridge ignition. Mr. Martini's refinement of the design basically consisted of conversion to an internal coiled spring activated striker. Martini's improved design flourished and Mr. Peabody's is nearly forgotten. Later in the British Martini's career, other rifling patterns such as the Metford System and even a system devised at Enfield were adopted. It is therefore common to hear these weapons also referred to as Martini-Enfields or Martini-Metfords.

[Jon MB]

some more pics..

Note use of brass cap on blade of foresight...

I assume this is Omani, but could be from elsewhere on the Arabian peninsula.

See how the sling is short for being slung underarm, with the weapon carried almost under the armpit whilst riding.

Not sure about manufacture...traces of decoration..Belgian export? Or based on post nr.3 of this thread, maybe Pakistan/ Kyber area manufacture.

Note markings on barrel behind rear sight: 'Birmingham'?

Also, see the unit disk, I suppose in imitation of a British rifle..

[Richard G]

Interesting to see the Rasak version (Post no 50) seems to be sporting a date of 1866, which is before the the general adoption of the Martini action and possibly it's invention.
Best wishes
Richard

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Bayonets!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Interesting to see the Rasak version (Post no 50) seems to be sporting a date of 1866, which is before the the general adoption of the Martini action and possibly it's invention.
Best wishes
Richard

In answer to Khanjar! and Richard G; The Razak butt is similar to the one on Martini Henry shown, however, the inscribed almost scribbled date is spurious as they hadn't supplied them yet. Add to that; the butt may have either been a special consignment for this presentation piece or simply a standard Martini Henry heavily worked on and specially carved.. In fact the supply of Martini Henrys was to be a fiasco of huge proportions as lawsuit on top of lawsuit as well as skulduggery and even ships sinking on route plus financial documents from Bodaciea's chariot which may well have been signed Mickey Mouse...etc.

The Rasak below is described as Quote"Description: A flintlock rasak gun dating: second quarter of the 19th Century provenence: Balkans round, smoothbore, 18 mm cal. barrel with a molded muzzle and an iron foresight, sighted breech with a small engraving; flat plate-lock engraved with floral motifs; long.'' Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

At Omdurman. The Martini Henry was there although not with the 8,000 British contingent though a few may have still carried it perhaps in the cavalry carbine role etc but the 16,000 plus Sudanese and Egyptian contingent had them... and the artist has clearly captured the huge powder cloud building up in front of the firing line obscuring the target somewhat. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

One excellent reference sits at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini%E2%80%93Henry covering the technical and practical data of the Martini Henry.

Another reference covers the battle at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Isandlwana

One of the darkest days for the British Army was the battle of Isandlwana against the Zulu. Much of the blame was initially rumoured upon malfunctions or getting the MH ammunition boxes opened. This was untrue and although a number of weapons went unserviceable due to soft case ammunition separating in the breach; this would have been manageable under normal battle conditions.

Essentially the sacred maxim of absolute solid all round defense at all halts was disobeyed at their peril and in particular an uncontrolled mish mash of troops all over the battle field surprised by a huge fast moving tribal infantry ...which essentially over ran the British before they were able to regroup. All they needed to do was form a defensive square and laager up the wagons in it perimeter. Such was the lethality of the Martini Henry that such action would probably have saved the day...

Later some distance away at Rourkes Drift another group of 140 British armed with the same weapon were to beat off 4,000 Zulu by being organised into just that...a solid all round organised and well led defence... if not a little Welsh singing by the Sergeant Major... :)

[kronckew]

:) unlike the movie, they were not really a welsh regiment yet - that came later.

there are some who say the two officers, bromhead and chard were fairly incompetent (bromhead was quite deaf and chard was just thick) and most of the defence was set up by one of the other officers & the sargent major.

i've seen adiscussion video on yootoobe that showed the cartridge boxes could easily be opened with a sharp blow from a rifle butt. they were designed that way.

lord chelmsford was even thicker, and blamed everybody but himself for the fiasco at islandwhana, his great friend victoria whitewashed him. the zulu king also warned his brother commanding the zulus at rorkes drift to never attack a dug in british position, which was ignored with the expected result, most of the zulu dead occurred at300-600 yards, the fierce hand to hand melee combat of the movie did not happen. the martini henry was just too much. it was the real hero.

islandhwana was played down and the great victory -really a minor skirmish at best - at rouke's drift got all the media attention and the medals to cover up chelmsford's negligence and stupidity.

[Pukka Bundook]

The last couple of posts are a fair overview of the battles at Isandlwana and Rourk's Drift.

Best books on the subject are;
"Like Wolves on the Fold", and "How can men die Better" By Mike Snook.

There was quite a bit of hand-to hand at Rourk's drift, but not of course as much as in the film.
The bayonet was used, but the Zulu appear to have had a very healthy respect for it, and tried to keep their distance!
The long thin "Lunger" bayonet was the best for the M-H, even if some bent in use.

[kronckew]

yes, there was some. most of the zulu's 800 odd dead were at long range tho. three of the brit dead were from the zulus appallingly bad gunfire, 14 brits were killed by their iklwa and iwisa.

i wonder what would have happened if there had been a detachment of gurkhas there instead of the 24th foot. probably a lot more dead zulus.

the brits at omdurman apparently had troubles with bent bayonets, there was quite a scandal in the UK about bad batches of blades being issued that had not been heat treated. some of these were apparently at omdurman, the soldiers straightened them over their knee and carried on, the kink not affecting their use. some picked up a fallen comrade's weapon with a straight one and carried on. again, most of the charging enemy was killed at long range, in the main charge against the british ranks, only one old man with a flag got to within 50 yards of their lines, staggering on most had been killed or wounded or fled at 100. they of course were amazed at this, then shot him. they had enfields, the egyptians had m-h's tho. they also had machine guns and artillery and the dervishes did not. there was again, a fair amount of hand to hand on various parts of the field, winston churchill in particular had some close calls in a charge there.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

yes, there was some. most of the zulu's 800 odd dead were at long range tho. three of the brit dead were from the zulus appallingly bad gunfire, 14 brits were killed by their iklwa and iwisa.

i wonder what would have happened if there had been a detachment of gurkhas there instead of the 24th foot. probably a lot more dead zulus.

the brits at omdurman apparently had troubles with bent bayonets, there was quite a scandal in the UK about bad batches of blades being issued that had not been heat treated. some of these were apparently at omdurman, the soldiers straightened them over their knee and carried on, the kink not affecting their use. some picked up a fallen comrade's weapon with a straight one and carried on. again, most of the charging enemy was killed at long range, in the main charge against the british ranks, only one old man with a flag got to within 50 yards of their lines, staggering on most had been killed or wounded or fled at 100. they of course were amazed at this, then shot him. they had enfields, the egyptians had m-h's tho. they also had machine guns and artillery and the dervishes did not. there was again, a fair amount of hand to hand on various parts of the field, winston churchill in particular had some close calls in a charge there.

That is not quite the case at Omdurman~ see http://www.historytoday.com/david-shonfield/battle-omdurman

The British position proved unassailable being not only in depth but included gunships to the immediate rear in direct support and covering the gaps. It included recce groups forward as well as various squadrons of lancers capable of offensive action and covered by artillery and machine guns. This was a heavily fortified dug in position and to boot the weapons they had were the most modern of the day. Viz;

Quote"Kitchener’s army of 17,600 Egyptian and Sudanese troops and 8,200 British regulars, was heavily outnumbered, but had at its disposal fifty pieces of artillery, ten gunboats and five auxiliary steamers on the Nile. It also possessed forty single-barrelled, water-cooled Maxim machine-guns, each capable of firing six hundred rounds a minute. The British infantry was equipped with Lee Metford rifles, or its successor, the .303 Lee Enfield. They both had a range of 2,800 yards, and a skilled rifleman could fire up to ten rounds a minute.

The Khalifa’s army consisted of about 60,000 tribesmen, mainly ansars or servants of Allah, referred to as Dervishes by the British. According to the young war correspondent, Winston Churchill, it resembled nothings so much as a ‘twelfth-century Crusader army’ armed with spears, swords, and with hundreds of banners embroided with Koranic texts.

In terms of weaponry, however, the Khalifa’s army was not quite as primitive as it looked. The Dervishes possessed some 15,000 captured shoulder arms, even though they were poorly maintained. Their riflemen were dispersed among the spearmen and swordbearers in the hopes of giving the latter a better opportunity of getting to grips with the enemy. They also possessed some captured pieces of artillery and machine guns but hardly any appropriate ammunition.''Unquote.

Where the enemy went wrong ~and I disagree with the outnumbered situation since when attacking an adversary the number of troops to task should be three to one...The factor here was less than 2 to one...but it was the fact that this was a no surprise, frontal, daylight attack on well trained, prepared troops with support weapons which commenced continuous firing at a range of about 2 miles...If one factor was to play an important part in this battle it was the nonsense of a daylight strike when a night attack would have probably halved the casualty rate and could have been decisive if done with covering fire... They simply weren't trained to do this.

What I find amazing is that many British were left almost out of ammo... and had the enemy brought in reserves at the critical moment the situation could have been different.. Men were down to two rounds... The enemy however were by then shot to bits and still held at range...totally out gunned. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Outgunned indeed. :shrug: The daylight attack was met with a hail of bullets at 600 rounds a minute from the machine guns both on the frontal position and flanking gunships floating just to the rear and in the gaps. Rifle fire from Enfields and Martini Henry would have been pouring into the massed tribal infantry and in those days before the Geneva convention the British all had dum dum bullets which particularly at 100 to 200 metres would have been devastating..As in fact, was Martini Henry.. You can see rifles being exchanged because they were probably cooking off... too hot... and the reserves in rear with extra resupply of ammo and casualties being recovered... all very modern stuff and in addition British artillery with its new explosive shells was having literally a field day.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

In terms of different ammunition the Martini was trialed with various improvements to the thin paper like crinkly brass case variant that was infamous for jamming in the breach. See http://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/2015/06/the-577450-martini-henry-the-right-arm-of-the-british-empire/ for an interesting page of detail on the rounds.

Below a belt of my own ammo for the Martini Henry, A british Infantryman with the weapon, a 3 d Image of the system and the evolving ammunition ending with the 303 on the right..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

There is a good publication on The Martini Henry.

Its states Quote" The breech-loading, single-shot .458in Martini-Henry rifle has become a symbol of both the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879 and the numerous battles in Egypt and the Sudan in 1884-85, but continued to be used by both British and colonial troops well into the 20th century. Its invention and introduction into British service were in direct response to the success of the Prussian Dreyse needle gun, which demonstrated that the breech-loading rifle offered faster loading, improved accuracy and superior range; significantly, the weapon could be loaded and fired from a prone position, thus offering the rifleman greater security on the battlefield. Due to the longevity of service, many Martini-Henry rifles survive today, both in museums and in private collections, and the weapon is highly prized by shooting enthusiasts. Featuring specially commissioned full-colour artwork and an array of arresting first-hand accounts and written by an authority on warfare in the Victorian era, this engaging study tells the story of the powerful Martini-Henry and its impact on the battlefield, from the Anglo-Zulu War to the opening months of World War I."Unquote.

There is a very substantial preview at https://books.google.com.om/books?id=jZmjCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=PAINTINGS+WITH+MARTINI+hENRY&source=bl&ots=ZZiUFy5feq&sig=1aZSOEl_fvjvP-SS5-SKj0H-Z_U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWtt2Q16_XAhXQoKQKHYZsAcE4ChDoAQhIMAI#v =onepage&q=PAINTINGS%20WITH%20MARTINI%20hENRY&f=false

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

When it came out...The Martini rifle was actually defective. The ejection mechanism was weak. The ammo was paper thin crinkly brass that had a habit of jamming in the breach and the barrel, though reasonable, was not a patch on the Metford that could drop a man at 1000 yards ... Metford himself showed that by using his own weapon in a shooting competition that he won at that very range.

The Martini Henry weapon development can be viewed at~ https://books.google.com.om/books?id=hLBTkNZ8U44C&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=the+martini+Henry+in+Art+works&source=bl&ots=bBrxfzB_hq&sig=BaAu_12vVyz1KYcGJ6y-RhTDtCY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic9piLi7LXAhXDCOwKHXMLCvE4ChDoAQgoMAE#v =onepage&q=the%20martini%20Henry%20in%20Art%20works&f=false

[kahnjar1]

When it came out...The Martini rifle was actually defective. The ejection mechanism was weak. The ammo was paper thin crinkly brass that had a habit of jamming in the breach and the barrel, though reasonable, was not a patch on the Metford that could drop a man at 1000 yards ... Metford himself showed that by using his own weapon in a shooting competition that he won at that very range.

The Martini Henry weapon development can be viewed at~ https://books.google.com.om/books?id=hLBTkNZ8U44C&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=the+martini+Henry+in+Art+works&source=bl&ots=bBrxfzB_hq&sig=BaAu_12vVyz1KYcGJ6y-RhTDtCY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic9piLi7LXAhXDCOwKHXMLCvE4ChDoAQgoMAE#v =onepage&q=the%20martini%20Henry%20in%20Art%20works&f=false
Yes....and that is the reason that the lever is so long, so that it gives strong leverage on the cartridge head to extract stuck rounds.
Stu

[Pukka Bundook]

The Martini does have a weak extraction system, and this was made worse by the foil cases. With drawn brass, it works much better.

We use them and other Victorian arms at our annual shoot.
Apart from paper at short range, the P'53, Snider and M-H are also shot at longer range, of about 700 yards.

They can produce quite respectable targets. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks to kahnjar1 and Pukka Bundook for spot on detail regarding the Martini Henry. The new ammunition and longer ejection handle did a lot to correct the initial fault and looking at the rate of fire in the hands of a trained infantryman the net effect was close to magazine fed weapons with more than 20 rounds a minute being recorded.

One of the big problems; using black powder ammo was a great billowing smoke cloud causing the target to be obscured as seen in the many portrayals of the MH in artworks of the time.

[kahnjar1]

Thanks to kahnjar1 and Pukka Bundook for spot on detail regarding the Martini Henry. The new ammunition and longer ejection handle did a lot to correct the initial fault and looking at the rate of fire in the hands of a trained infantryman the net effect was close to magazine fed weapons with more than 20 rounds a minute being recorded.

One of the big problems; using black powder ammo was a great billowing smoke cloud causing the target to be obscured as seen in the many portrayals of the MH in artworks of the time.
True about the smoke but then all black powder weapons suffered the same problem. The Martini of course was later made in .303 which were smokless, so the target was not obscured.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here's that crinkly case ammo that was a problem when it fell apart in the breach..

[Johan van Zyl]

Fascinating reading! Ibrahiim, I also own a Martini-Henry, for which I load lathe-turned shells with 60-85 grains of black powder. I cast my own bullets with a specially made mold.

I saw a Martini-Henry for sale in a big souk when I visited the UAE in 2012. I also travelled to Dibba on that occasion, and unknowingly must have been quite near you in Oman.

Regards
Johan

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Fascinating reading! Ibrahiim, I also own a Martini-Henry, for which I load lathe-turned shells with 60-85 grains of black powder. I cast my own bullets with a specially made mold.

I saw a Martini-Henry for sale in a big souk when I visited the UAE in 2012. I also travelled to Dibba on that occasion, and unknowingly must have been quite near you in Oman.

Regards
Johan
Very good to hear! Reloading ammo was very popular here..the striker cap was rudimentary; a couple of match heads jammed in with sandpaper

And a very much guessed at charge ..
ln arabia the barrels were cut back getting rid of a lot of unnecessary barrel and bayonet lug...lightening the weapon considerably with little loss in accuracy.

[Johan van Zyl]

Salaams Ibrahiim. Very interesting. Having seen that Martini-Henry at the souk, and a brass cannon on a carriage I would dearly have loved to own, we travelled past Dibba down a long road toward a "Friday Market" just outside of Masafi. Unfortunately I was with family who did not share my edged weapon/firearms interests, so there was nobody I could share my enthusiasm with.

Regards
Johan

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ibrahiim. Very interesting. Having seen that Martini-Henry at the souk, and a brass cannon on a carriage I would dearly have loved to own, we travelled past Dibba down a long road toward a "Friday Market" just outside of Masafi. Unfortunately I was with family who did not share my edged weapon/firearms interests, so there was nobody I could share my enthusiasm with.

Regards
Johan

Salaams Johan ...some 20 odd years ago I was sitting on an old pipe in the middle of a much older Fort in central Oman when I noticed the pipe had a sort of plaque stuck on it... It was a hot day... but scrabbling off the dirt it read Gun Barrel of Vasco Da Garma etc etc ... and after moving aside more dirt it turned out to be an 8 foot long bronze cannon barrel!! Just too heavy to even consider lifting but I could envisage it in the middle of my dining room... !!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I PLACED A Muscat MARTINI AT #17....

Interestingly I collected a lot of Maastricht Petrus Regout a few years ago...The famous Sphinx marked Dutch Pottery so popular in Oman from about 1880 to 1920 and earmarked in a special report by Omanisilver.com as the source of weapons smuggled to the Northwest frontier tribesmen fighting the British in that period. Thus I conclude ~

See http://omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d645.html for a surprise disclosure about the famous Pottery known as Petrus Regout from Maastricht Holland which started flooding the Omani market in about 1880 for maybe 25 years... It carries the famous sphinx mark underneath.. of which there are several indicating a different year etc... Anyway these pottery bowls were more than likely used to cover the smuggling of one particular mark of Martini Henry made specially for the Muscat Market ...The Muscat Martini Henry made about 10 kilometres from Maastricht and sold into the Afghanistan market for the rebels fighting the British. These as well as weapons made up the Khyber !! were used in that campaign. Omani Silver.com at reference more or less viewing the delivery of weapons through Muscat as highly likely and we know the pottery went through there and was very popular in Oman at one Maria Theresa a piece. I have several dishes. Please read their excellent article.

http://omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d645.html

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

[midelburgo]

One of my lectures this month was Rudyard Kipling Wee Willie Winkle volume, and it also contained the short tale The man who could reign (from which a famous movie came). It spends some text explaining how the Khyber pass Martini Henrys were made and where.

[Will M]

This Snider precedes MH but it has an interesting butt modification
https://www.icollector.com/SNIDER-ENFIELD-MODEL-III-BAND-CALIBER-577-SNIDER_i33570078

[kahnjar1]

This Snider precedes MH but it has an interesting butt modification
https://www.icollector.com/SNIDER-ENFIELD-MODEL-III-BAND-CALIBER-577-SNIDER_i33570078
What an interesting rifle. I have never seen a stock modification on any snider, apart from the odd one with Maori carving, and I have seen many sniders over the years. Obviously done to represent the jezail stocks of the Khyber region, but why would one bother to modify what would have been a perfectly functional stock anyway??
Thanks for posting.........
Stu

[rickystl]

That Snider is indeed an interesting gun. I have never seen a Snider with a Jazail style butt modification. My only guess is the owner was used to handling older Jazail style muzzle loaders in the past, and modified the stock to suite his personal taste. For sure an Afghan local modification. Very cool. Wish I had seen it first. LOL

Rick

[Will M]

Rick it may well be for sale by now , the buyer always purchases many firearms and is most likely a dealer. Downside it the price will be more.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Swinburn Henry

Reference ..
A....http://antiquearms.org.nz/articles/swinburn-henry/
B....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinburn%E2%80%93Henry

I have to admit that my knowledge of Martini Henry variants was sketchy at best however I have now read such excellent write ups as at the references that I can now see where they fit … We have in Oman various marks of MH and the different types of ammunition. Local variations were changed to suit the more slight stature of the arab individual by sawing back the barrels making the system much lighter and disregarding the bayonet. Once the caliber had changed to 303 around 1890 it would inevitably mean the single shot weapon would be overtaken if someone could invent a magazine ...although trained riflemen could in fact deliver 20 plus rounds a minute just by hand feeding single rounds. I digress as the aim is to introduce the Swinburn Henry an almost exact lookalike ...with a few differences.

Please view the excellent report at Reference A on this weapon.(with excellent artwork and photos)

See also reference B wikepedia on the weapon..which states~

Quote"The Swinburn–Henry rifle was a breech-loading lever-actuated single-shot rifle that was used by British Commonwealth forces in the late 1870s as substitute for the Martini–Henry, which was at the time in short supply."Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The problem or one of them with the Swinburn Henry was the extractor device which relied on a sliding plate but was very prone to jamming. It did however have a unique half and full cocking device in about the same place as the MH Load indicator lever..but much longer and functioned well. This would be useful in preventing an accidental discharge of the round up the spout while on horseback..thus a good bit of kit on the cavalry carbine.

[yulzari]

May I recommend Neil Aspinshaw's seminal book on the Martini Henry which is about to be published (see www. martinihenry.org) which deals with the many stories and myths about the rifle and explains the actual effectiveness of the weapon and it's ammunition. The result of years of close study from primary sources.

Also one should note that most of the smuggled Martinis and bazaar sold ones around the Persian Gulf were Belgian made using the 577/450 ammunition but not identical to the actual service Martini Henry.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks for the detail about the book about to be released on the Martini Henry. This thread is composed from years of research …

ACTUALLY ABOUT 38 YEARS IN ALL FROM MAINLY MY OWN EXPERIENCE WITH THE WEAPON AND AS A DEALER IN THEM FROM AN ACTIVE ANTIQUES SHOP FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS . THE POSTS TO INSPECT IN THIS REGARD AND ON THE WEAPON FAVOURED BY TRIBALS IN THIS REGION CAN BE SEEN AT #84...38 AND 5 (ONE IS A BOOK) AND WE ARE ALWAYS READY TO VIEW ANY PUBLICATION AS IT ARRISES. I AM SURE THE NEW BOOK WILL GET A GOOD AIRING ON THESE PAGES. :shrug:

[kahnjar1]

May I recommend Neil Aspinshaw's seminal book on the Martini Henry which is about to be published (see www. martinihenry.org) which deals with the many stories and myths about the rifle and explains the actual effectiveness of the weapon and it's ammunition. The result of years of close study from primary sources.

Also one should note that most of the smuggled Martinis and bazaar sold ones around the Persian Gulf were Belgian made using the 577/450 ammunition but not identical to the actual service Martini Henry.

I was of the impression that most of the "smuggled" Martinis were in fact copy made in what is now Pakistan, though no doubt some were stolen from the British Army. If Belgian made, then surely they would carry a proof mark, and though they may exist, I have never seen a Belgian proof on a Martini. Most "smuggled " Martinis I have seen carry no marks at all, and appear never to have been marked, as there is no sign that marks have been removed.
Perhaps Ibrahiim, who will have seen many "local" Martinis could advise if he has seen any Belgian proved Martinis.
The fact that they were made in 577/450, was that this caliber was what was in common use at the time. Of course they were superceded by .303 when that caliber came into regular use.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I was of the impression that most of the "smuggled" Martinis were in fact copy made in what is now Pakistan, though no doubt some were stolen from the British Army. If Belgian made, then surely they would carry a proof mark, and though they may exist, I have never seen a Belgian proof on a Martini. Most "smuggled " Martinis I have seen carry no marks at all, and appear never to have been marked, as there is no sign that marks have been removed.
Perhaps Ibrahiim, who will have seen many "local" Martinis could advise if he has seen any Belgian proved Martinis.
The fact that they were made in 577/450, was that this caliber was what was in common use at the time. Of course they were superceded by .303 when that caliber came into regular use.
Stu


Please see #95 which outlines the amazing fact that Muscat marked MH were made in Maastrict and smuggled into the region under bales of pottery... The Famous Maastricht pottery commonly still found in Muscat.

Heres the post below ~ I PLACED A Muscat MARTINI AT #17....

Interestingly I collected a lot of Maastricht Petrus Regout a few years ago...The famous Sphinx marked Dutch Pottery so popular in Oman from about 1880 to 1920 and earmarked in a special report by Omanisilver.com as the source of weapons smuggled to the Northwest frontier tribesmen fighting the British in that period. Thus I conclude ~

See http://omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d645.html for a surprise disclosure about the famous Pottery known as Petrus Regout from Maastricht Holland which started flooding the Omani market in about 1880 for maybe 25 years... It carries the famous sphinx mark underneath.. of which there are several indicating a different year etc... Anyway these pottery bowls were more than likely used to cover the smuggling of one particular mark of Martini Henry made specially for the Muscat Market ...The Muscat Martini Henry made about 10 kilometres from Maastricht and sold into the Afghanistan market for the rebels fighting the British. These as well as weapons made up the Khyber !! were used in that campaign. Omani Silver.com at reference more or less viewing the delivery of weapons through Muscat as highly likely and we know the pottery went through there and was very popular in Oman at one Maria Theresa a piece. I have several dishes. Please read their excellent article.

http://omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d645.html

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Please see #95 which outlines the amazing fact that Muscat marked MH were made in Maastrict and smuggled into the region under bales of pottery... The Famous Maastricht pottery commonly still found in Muscat.

Heres the post below ~ I PLACED A Muscat MARTINI AT #17....

Interestingly I collected a lot of Maastricht Petrus Regout a few years ago...The famous Sphinx marked Dutch Pottery so popular in Oman from about 1880 to 1920 and earmarked in a special report by Omanisilver.com as the source of weapons smuggled to the Northwest frontier tribesmen fighting the British in that period. Thus I conclude ~

See http://omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d645.html for a surprise disclosure about the famous Pottery known as Petrus Regout from Maastricht Holland which started flooding the Omani market in about 1880 for maybe 25 years... It carries the famous sphinx mark underneath.. of which there are several indicating a different year etc... Anyway these pottery bowls were more than likely used to cover the smuggling of one particular mark of Martini Henry made specially for the Muscat Market ...The Muscat Martini Henry made about 10 kilometres from Maastricht and sold into the Afghanistan market for the rebels fighting the British. These as well as weapons made up the Khyber !! were used in that campaign. Omani Silver.com at reference more or less viewing the delivery of weapons through Muscat as highly likely and we know the pottery went through there and was very popular in Oman at one Maria Theresa a piece. I have several dishes. Please read their excellent article.

http://omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d645.html

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Hi Ibrahiim,
Interesting possible connection??? but can you verify that Martinis were in fact made in Holland? I do not doubt that arms were smuggled thru Muscat, but anyone could have stamped "Muscat Martini" on the breech. To me , if Muscat was an avenue for smuggling weapons, it would be rather foolish to stamp such a thing on any weapon as it would have directed the "powers that be" to the source and therefore to the confiscatuion of such weapons. With lack of any other evidence showing on the particular gun I would be sceptical as to a Maastricht origin. Dutch pottery or for that matter any other cargo COULD have been used to conceal weapons in transit.

If you refer to my post above, I asked if you can verify the existance of Belgian proved Martinis from the many you have seen?

Stu

[yulzari]

Major General Syed Ali Hamid comments at https://www.thefridaytimes.com/gunrunning-to-the-northwest-frontier-and-the-crash-of-1910/ on the trade into the area generally.

Period reports of British origin make more references to Belgian Martinis. Belgium having a major arms industry making tens of thousands of Martinis annually. Many, if not most, Martinis today from Arabia are of Belgian make from my observations but others will be far more knowledgable on that matter.

See also the Doctoral thesis of James Ficus on 'Gun Running in Arabia' https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2623&context=open_access_etds

[Kubur]

Sometimes people mismatch Holland and Belgium, or Belgium and France.
But actualy Belgium is a country... ;)

I think i got something for you, they were made in Liege.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30031969

Commissioned from Francotte by Westley Richards, to fulfill an order reputed to be for 36,000 rifles from the Zuid Afrikaansche Republiek. Less than one third of these were actually delivered.

[Kubur]

Please see #95 which outlines the amazing fact that Muscat marked MH were made in Maastrict and smuggled into the region
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaam Ibrahim
Is it possible that Maastricht stamps were only export proofs???
as it was a port to ship the guns
and actualy the guns were made in Liege...

[kahnjar1]

Thank you Kubur for the link. These as stated, are Francotte Martinis and not Martini Henry Rifles. The action is different from the Martini Henry as described in the attached link. https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-nepalese-p-1878-martini-henry-francotte-pattern-short-lever-infantry-rifle-untouched-condition?variant=26168425541
So it is likely that at least some of the rifles featured in this thread are in fact Francottes rather than Martini Henrys. Only by having a particular weapon to hand would correctly identify which it is........
Francotte's factory was located in Liege Belgium.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaam Ibrahim
Is it possible that Maastricht stamps were only export proofs???
as it was a port to ship the guns
and actualy the guns were made in Liege...



Yes I agree .Please see #108. The Pottery was made 10 Kilometres down the road at Maastricht and the weapons at Liege. The weapons were smuggled Oman under cover of the crates of pottery..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Major General Syed Ali Hamid comments at https://www.thefridaytimes.com/gunrunning-to-the-northwest-frontier-and-the-crash-of-1910/ on the trade into the area generally.

Period reports of British origin make more references to Belgian Martinis. Belgium having a major arms industry making tens of thousands of Martinis annually. Many, if not most, Martinis today from Arabia are of Belgian make from my observations but others will be far more knowledgable on that matter.

See also the Doctoral thesis of James Ficus on 'Gun Running in Arabia' https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2623&context=open_access_etds


Thanks for the fine detail at the references which are a must see for members here...

https://www.thefridaytimes.com/gunr...-crash-of-1910/

'Gun Running in Arabia' https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2623&context=open_access_etds[/QUOTE]

[Kubur]

I forgot to post mine...
I think it's something from Oman...

;)

[kahnjar1]

I forgot to post mine...
I think it's something from Oman...

;)
Yes the silverwork looks to be Omani. Are there any proof, or other marks on the action or barrel? If not it is likely to be a Khyber copy, as is mine.
Stu

[Kubur]

Hi Stu
yes i have some marks and would be grateful to know what they mean
43 A
and on the barrel 604

[kahnjar1]

Hi Stu
yes i have some marks and would be grateful to know what they mean
43 A
and on the barrel 604
Pics please???
Stu

[Kubur]

Pics please???
Stu

here the numbers

[kahnjar1]

here the numbers
Thanks Kubur. I was hoping that (maybe) your gun had some proof marks, but these are not.
As a guess only, I suspect that they are numbers which were on the parts before they were put together by one of the many "backyard" makers in the Khyber. One of the links posted (here or on the Jezail thread) mentions the "collection" of parts which were then assembled into complete guns.
Not in anyway criticising, but you would do well to dis-assemble your gun and get rid of the rust under the barrel. It looks quite serious. Just a suggestion.........
:)
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I refer readers to the use here of the video seen at~

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+martini+Henry&src=IE-SearchBox&pc=EUPP_&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dthe%2bmartini%2bHenry%26src%3dI E-SearchBox%26FORM%3dIESR4N%26pc%3dEUPP_&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=5A8CA9A6727300C832515A8CA9A6727300C83251&FORM=WRVORC

~ which gives an excellent feeling of standing behind this weapon and the effect of the smoke pushed out from the 577 black powder cartridge ...This actually often obscured the targets .. As the presenter says this weapon went all over the planet and in the hands of a trained shot was devastating...and could be fired at up to 23 rounds a minute...incredible for a single shot, hand fed weapon.