Another of My Kerises

[dbhmgb]

Hello again. I am posting them one by one for comment. This one I know little about other than it may be fairly old due to the wear from many ritual cleaning. I like the hilt, is it just normal Javanese?

Thanks!

[kai]

Hello Dan,

The hilt style is Madurese but the carving is very rough for Madura standards - possibly village work and a genuine combo.

I believe the blade needs staining before we can give detailed comments.

Regards,
Kai

[Jean]

Hi,
Agree with Kai, the hilt is just a poor quality and probably recent Madurese piece IMO, you can notice the rough carving. :(
Regards

[Henk]

This is a keris from Madura. The whole piece has some age. The ukiran is a recent replacement. Replace the replacement for a good maduran ukiran, stain the blade and give the sheath and the mendak a polish and you have a fine madurese keris.

[dbhmgb]

I have some concerns about staining the blade as it very thin in spots.

[Sajen]

Sorry, I doubt that this blade will show after staining a good visible pamor since the blade have had to much corrosion.
like the others I have to say that the hilt is a cheaply worked recent one, not worth to keep.
There are a lot of much better Madura keris offered everywhere so I think that the complete ensemble is not a "keeper".
Sorry Dan, but I think that a open word regarding this keris is much more helpful for you.

Best regards,

Detlef

[dbhmgb]

Sorry, it is a "keeper" to me. I happen to like this keris for several reasons. This is a keris with it's own history and character that I can appreciate. Perhaps I am a home to unwanted kerises? If so, I am proud of that. ;)

[Rick]

Always buy the best that you can afford .

Buy the keris; not the 'story' .

Quality is always better than quantity .

[Jean]

Hi Dan,
I can fully understand that you like the blade & sheath of your kris in their original condition because of their age and history, but no way for the hilt!
I attach a picture of a Madurese hilt which your piece is suppose to copy and expect that you can notice the difference in craftsmanship. :)
Regards

[Greybeard]

Hi Dan, I really appreciate you for giving those seemingly "unwanted" kerises a home. They certainly deserve it! My suggestion: Just clean the blade from any rust and -- if you can -- replace the hilt with a better Maduranese one (as suggested by Jean). And then enjoy and love this old piece! Regards, Heinz

[Sajen]

Sorry, it is a "keeper" to me. I happen to like this keris for several reasons. This is a keris with it's own history and character that I can appreciate. Perhaps I am a home to unwanted kerises? If so, I am proud of that. ;)

You don't need to say sorry, when you like it, keep it. :) ;)

This keris was rehilted since the blade and sheath are old but the hilt is much more recent and really unskilled worked.

A second point: The keris itself coming from a high culture and need care. Repairing the broken wrongko, polishing the wood and the pendok and changing the hilt would be the minimum what i would do with this keris when I like it. I have collected several keris in Indonesia and ebay as well which has been in a pitiful state. The most of my keris are not worked from high skilled empus or pande but I have tried to bring them in a status which is worth to keep them for coming generations.

Look for example to this keris. I have bought it years ago for very low money in Indonesia. It was in a very similar state as your keris. The blade have had corrosion, the sheath was in a real poor condition and the hilt was a similar one you have at your keris. The blade was cleaned and have get a new stain, the sheath (the break repair was before) have get some care (the worm holes in the back was filled with wood filler and it has get a polish with some coats of shellack), the mendak and hilt was replaced by better ones. Now, also when it is not a keris of high level, it is one which have a cultural worth (IMHO).
When I have written before that your keris isn't a "keeper" it was based upon the fact that I have the opinion that you and nobody else will be able to bring the blade alive. And the blade is the heart of every keris.

And at last, I only can second the words from Rick, very wise words.

Sorry for the poor pictures, have taken them just in the moment to show you what I mean.

Regards,

Detlef

[dbhmgb]

Thanks Detlef and all the others who have posted.

Here is the story. Early on, I bought this keris, and one other, that are in terrible shape - I paid practically nothing for them and they were local so there was no exorbitant shipping costs from Indonesia.

At this point, with my limited funds, I'd probably rather use the money to buy better examples of kerises, with knowledge I am gaining and guidance from folks who know what they are doing.

I can appreciate that the posters here are trying to protect the newbie and I welcome that.

Thanks again!

-------------

Detlef - thanks for the pictures - that is really a fine keris. My problem is that I don't even know where to buy parts. Some parts that I have seen are extremely expensive - and then shipping is ridiculous! Also, I am still a bit unsure about doing the cleaning and staining of a wilah.

[dbhmgb]

Hi Dan, I really appreciate you for giving those seemingly "unwanted" kerises a home. They certainly deserve it! My suggestion: Just clean the blade from any rust and -- if you can -- replace the hilt with a better Maduranese one (as suggested by Jean). And then enjoy and love this old piece! Regards, Heinz

Thanks Heinz. To let you know, these picture are older and since I took them I cleaned the blade a bit with lime juice and then oiled it quite liberally.

[Greybeard]

Hi Dan, fine that you cleaned your blade from that rust; this was my most concern about your keris. Regarding the hilt, if you really like it just keep it, because you are the only one who needs to like it -- nobody else!

[dbhmgb]

Hi Dan, fine that you cleaned your blade from that rust; this was my most concern about your keris. Regarding the hilt, if you really like it just keep it, because you are the only one who needs to like it -- nobody else!

Very true! I have no friends or family that care about my collection - their eyes glaze over if I mention "keris". ;)

My grandson is still under one year old - I'm hoping to hook him when he gets older! :D

[Greybeard]

Dan, we are in the same situation. Nobody cares about my "great" keris collection except myself. And I'm an older man. I still hope that I can hook my son one day ...

[Sajen]

Dan, we are in the same situation. Nobody cares about my "great" keris collection except myself. And I'm an older man. I still hope that I can hook my son one day ...

Oh, I think with this problem you both not alone! ;) :D :(

[Rick]

Very true! I have no friends or family that care about my collection - their eyes glaze over if I mention "keris". ;)

You too ?!? :eek:
Welcome to the boat . :D

[Henk]

Blub....Blub..... Can i join this sailing party?? :D

[dbhmgb]

I guess that's why we end up here! http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1948_beer_mug_cheers.gif

[Henk]

Staining this keris if done properly won't harm the blade. This keris would be certainly for me a keeper. I would clean it to bring back its well deserved glory.

You don't know where to buy parts? Try ebay and search worldwide. I just took a look and saw some nice madurese ukirans that would do justice to this old fellow. Yes, an ivory ukiran is expensive but a well carved wooden one would do the job.

[dbhmgb]

"I would clean it to bring back its well deserved glory."

Now, there is a phrase I can understand! I can now see the point, as long as it does no further damage.

Now this has triggered several newbie questions...

I am not sure of the difference between cleaning and staining, or how to stain.

Another question I've had is about the juice used in cleaning. For small jobs I just used a lime, but if you need a quantity of juice for soaking (lime, lemon, pineapple) what is used? Most quantities of juice that I can find are sweetened, is that acceptable?

Thanks!

Dan

[dbhmgb]

Hi Dan,
I can fully understand that you like the blade & sheath of your kris in their original condition because of their age and history, but no way for the hilt!
I attach a picture of a Madurese hilt which your piece is suppose to copy and expect that you can notice the difference in craftsmanship. :)
Regards

Jean,

Yes, I can see a HUGE difference! I was looking on-line. I see the Madurese hilts as very ornate. Is this the trait of the hilts from this locale?

Thanks!

EDIT: Madurese Hilt Thread (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14425) - I found my answer!

[Sajen]

I am not sure of the difference between cleaning and staining, or how to stain.

Another question I've had is about the juice used in cleaning. For small jobs I just used a lime, but if you need a quantity of juice for soaking (lime, lemon, pineapple) what is used? Most quantities of juice that I can find are sweetened, is that acceptable?

Thanks!

Dan

Search in the forum, there are threads where it is exactly explained how a blade will be stained. Indonesia: warangan.

I use for cleaning lemon acid which you can buy in the supermarked, need a little bit watching since it is aggressive. But this process is explained as well not so long ago. Take your time and read. I don't would use sweetened juice.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

EDIT: Madurese Hilt Thread (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14425) - I found my answer!

This is only one form of Madurese hilts, there are a lot of others. But Madura hilts are normally masterpieces of carving.

[Henk]

Cleaning of a blade can be done with a fresh lemon or lime. It takes some time. With a rusty blade i brush the blade with the fresh lemon or lime. Put the piece of lemon on the rusty spot and pack the whole thing in plastic and let it rest for some time. The unpack it and scrub again with the lemon until the rust is gone. Staining is done with warangan like Detlef said. Search for it on this forum.

The hilts you found are indeed a form of madura hilts.

This link shows other maduran ukirans.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6545&highlight=madura

[David]

Personally i use pineapple juice because it is less aggressive than lemon or lime acid. With this blade, less aggressive might be a good idea. :)

[dbhmgb]

I figured it required warangan. Arsenic is something I have no access to, and using it is not something I would attempt.

I will attempt a soaking in pineapple juice as David suggests.

I really appreciate all the feedback, thank you all!

[Greybeard]

Hi Dan, I use to clean my blades with diluted vinegar -- not a traditional method, I know. But for me it works very fine for many years ...

[dbhmgb]

Hi Dan, I use to clean my blades with diluted vinegar -- not a traditional method, I know. But for me it works very fine for many years ...

How much do you dilute it?

[Greybeard]

I usually use 1 l water and 4 dl vinegar, so the solution is not too aggressive.

[dbhmgb]

Well, I read many posts on this forum regarding pineapple juice and saw for myself the great results from kerises soaked in it. So, right now, I have two of my kerises (one of which is the blade this thread features) soaking in pineapple juice. I will monitor closely and post pictures of the results when they are ready. http://www.wildphotoforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

[Rick]

Unsweetened juice; correct ? :)

[dbhmgb]

Unsweetened juice; correct ? :)

Yep! :cool:

[dbhmgb]

Okay, after two days in the pineapple juice the blade was free of rust! The other keris will be awhile. Now, the sheath is another story. I went to remove the pendok and found that someone had epoxied it onto the gandar - what a mess! I tried to remove it as gently as possible, but still some minor damage occured and getting the glue off of the wood was no fun. I ended up sanding the entire thing trying to get it to look half-way decent. Now I'll need to stain it - NOT my original intention. I'll include an early sanding picture. Now matter what - it'll be an improvement!

Dan

[Rick]

Looks like the blade has only residual pamor left .
I would suggest shellac for the final finish of the scabbard .

[GIO]

In such situation I remove the ganja: there is always a lot of rust on the lower part of the tang and between ganja and blade.
After cleaning I apply an anti-rust product on all non -visible places.

[Sajen]

Looks like the blade has only residual pamor left .
I would suggest shellac for the final finish of the scabbard .

Agree with you in both cases! :) This (the residual pamor) was the reason why I have written before that this keris is in my opinion not a "keeper" since I have thought that the pamor is gone.

Regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

In such situation I remove the ganja

Speaking only for myself, this is something I would never try .

[Sajen]

Speaking only for myself, this is something I would never try .

Seems that we both have a lot of agreement for the moment! :D ;)

The possibility that the ganja break by this old piece is very high! And I can't see many corrosion between ganja and blade.

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

This (the residual pamor) was the reason why I have written before that this keris is in my opinion not a "keeper" since I have thought that the pamor is gone.
Hey Detlef...do you remember your first love. Maybe she didn't really kiss that well (by your now more worldly standards) and she might not have been the best looking of all the girls that came after, but she will always be a "keeper" in your memory, won't she. ;)

[Rick]

I will admit to buying a keris with residual pamor; and recently ..... ;)
The edges had been cleaned up and the blade re-stained . The pamor left on the blade (very old) was an adeg form indicating likely empu manufacture .

My very first keris was a very old example and quite raggedy edged; it was from the Sultan Agung era .

I still have it ... of course . :)

[Sajen]

Hey Detlef...do you remember your first love. Maybe she didn't really kiss that well (by your now more worldly standards) and she might not have been the best looking of all the girls that came after, but she will always be a "keeper" in your memory, won't she. ;)

Hi David,

I still remember that she kissed very well! ;) :D Like I have written before, when Dan like this keris he should keep him. And it seems that he is on the way to give this keris what he should get. I only want to say that I might to see already before that there don't will be any visible pamor anymore.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

I will admit to buying a keris with residual pamor; and recently ..... ;)
The edges had been cleaned up and the blade re-stained . The pamor left on the blade (very old) was an adeg form indicating likely empu manufacture .

My very first keris was a very old example and quite raggedy edged; it was from the Sultan Agung era .

I still have it ... of course . :)

I think we all have a keris like this, I am as well. Nothing wrong by this. See what I have answered David. ;) :)

Regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

Yes, Detlef .
All my girlfriends were beautiful; every single one ! ;)

















Of course my Wife is the best of them all !! :D

Rick

[David]

A smart answer there Rick... ;)