UNKNOWN DAGGER FOR ID.

[VANDOO]

HERE IS A UNUSUAL DAGGER FOR DISCUSSION. THE ONLY INFORMATION I HAVE ON IT IS IT IS FROM A COUNTRY IN THE MEDITERRANEAN AREA. IT MUST HAVE HAD SOME SPECIAL USE TO HAVE SUCH AN UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADE.

[kahnjar1]

Is that a slot I see towards the blade tip? If so it could be some sort of sewing tool...maybe for sails?
Stu

[David R]

It looks very like the classic "Mediterranian Dirk" but with a stiletto point. Makes sense actualy, a knife edge for utility cutting and a stiletto point for combat. A real bespoke piece and very nice to have.

[Stan S.]

An eating utensil? The point can be used as a skewer (instead of a fork) and the cutting ege is for cutting... Just a guess

[Atlantia]

Is that a slot I see towards the blade tip? If so it could be some sort of sewing tool...maybe for sails?
Stu

My first thought was the same mate.
A blade to cut the sail-cloth, an awl to make the holes and a hook to pull the yarn through.
Just a guess though.
It's certainly a good looking and quality item. I'd also agree mediterranean. Possibly naval rather than 'fisherman'.

[Atlantia]

Definately looks European though Barry. You could try the Euro forum?

[fspic]

The fluting (or whatever) suggests this is Italian (or maybe French) as they are the main ones who heavily used that sort of decoration - it is also found in furniture. It doth have a Baroque-ish smack to it. A distant variant is the spiral columns of the Vatican altar.

As for the application, if there is a hole in the end it would likely be used for pulling cord, but if not sails then maybe upholstery. If the blade is sharp or has a slightly chisel edge that may give a clue to use.

[Indianajones]

The handle looks like it is made of a cut section of twisted vine (tropical?) more than carved, is it? Is it wood at all?
To me it certainly looks like a specialised tool from around the 1830's, perhaps Italian or Spanish as does the iron decoration indicate.
It certainly belonged to a craftman specialised in a particular job, maybe on mainland or maybe on board of a ship (hence the tropical addition?).
>>>just my humble thoughts on this item<< :)

[chregu]

hello together
Europe for sure!
would tap Italy, but also could be Corsica, a possibility.
however, a beautiful piece!
gruss chregu

[VANDOO]

UNFORTUNATELY ALL I HAVE IS A PICTURE OF THIS KNIFE/TOOL. I SUSPECT THE GRIP IS EITHER CARVED EBONY OR HORN. THE SPOT ON THE BLADE APPEARS TO BE DISCOLORED NOT A HOLE FOR THREADING. NOTE THE GAURD ON ONE SIDE BY THE BLADE. IT IS THERE TO KEEP THE HAND FROM SLIDING DOWN ONTO THE BLADE. IT WOULD APPEAR THIS IS A COMBINATION TOOL FOR PERFORATING HOLES IN SOMETHING REQUIREING A FAIR AMOUNT OF FORCE. IT ALSO HAS THE BLADE FOR CUTTING. WORKING ON SAILS AND RIGGING IS A GOOD SUGGESTION.
THE ITEM IS WELL MADE AND THE WORKMANSHIP DOES REMIND ME OF FRENCH OR ITALIAN WORKMANSHIP. PERHAPS SOMEONE WILL SEE THIS IN THE FUTURE AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT S AND FILL US IN. IN THE MEANTIME ITS FUN TO GUESS. :)

[kronckew]

my first thought was an artillery dagger/cannon vent prick. (bombardier's stiletto)

[Rick]

This piece is way too fancy to be a rigging knife of any kind, IMO . :shrug:
It is not a Fid either .

Sailmaker's Palm below .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ My guess is Bull Fighters knife... :eek:
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ps In Oman we have bull fighting... but in this case its between two bulls giving each other no more than a headache!! :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

HERE IS A UNUSUAL DAGGER FOR DISCUSSION. THE ONLY INFORMATION I HAVE ON IT IS IT IS FROM A COUNTRY IN THE MEDITERRANEAN AREA. IT MUST HAVE HAD SOME SPECIAL USE TO HAVE SUCH AN UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADE.



Salaams VANDOO ~ I was researching something quite obscure (Genoese Naval Swords) and bumped into the Genoese Knife style you show at # 1. Please see www.sangiorgioaste.com

Solved !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Tim Simmons]

Looks like the skewer in a meat carving set.

[kronckew]

so, what is it?
(i can't read the illustrated page, ibrahim)
(also can't read italian :D)

the perforated tip does lend itself to some sort of sailor's dagger also used for sail repair and/or fancy knotwork.

[Emanuel]

Hello,

This a Genovese knife "con passacorda", referring to the thin blade tip. It was supposedly indeed used for rigging and knots.

The slit in the blade, or sometimes in the tang when the handle unscrews from the blade, is known as the "cruna" and basically makes a larger threading needle.

That's a wonderful book by the way with excellent information, but in Italian. I will look up the specific info when I get home tonight.

Here is a page from "Dizionari Terminologici - Armi Bianche dal Mediebo all'Eta Moderna" (Florence, 1980) for additional reference. See F and G, terms, 10 and 26.

Emanuel

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I got a reasonable translation by pressing the little flag top right on the website reference but anyway this is not only an excellent matelots weapon/ rigging tool but became famous as a dastardly dagger up the back alleyways in Genoa on dark nights...and the book goes on to describe its reputation and prohibition as an illegal blade..I cant think why...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Emanuel]

Yes, they do seem to be wonderful little trouble makers. :)

[VANDOO]

THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE FORUM BEING A GOOD POINT OF REFRENCE ONE NEVER KNOWS WHAT ONE MAY FIND IN OLD POSTS :D . THE ANSWERS TO THIS QUESTION NOW COME TO LIGHT A LITTLE OVER 2 YEARS AND 2 MONTHS LATER.
FORUM MEMBERS GUESSES, VAGUE MEMORIES AND USE OF LOGIC CAME CLOSE IN SOME CASES BACK THEN BUT NOW WE HAVE SOLID REFRENCE AND INFORMATION AT LAST. SO POSTING A PICTURE OF A UNUSUAL ITEM THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CAN BRING ANSWERS HERE. :cool: THANKS FOR THE ANSWER. IBRAHIIM :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams ...
Great work Emanuel ...thanks VANDOO... All this is now preserved in library...all hard wired in ! Nice publication too.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

Well done Ibrahiim!!!! You really nailed this one!!!!!
What outstanding research, thank you for entering this. While everybody had great observations, I couldn't fathom what in the world this was, and never seen one before.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well done Ibrahiim!!!! You really nailed this one!!!!!
What outstanding research, thank you for entering this. While everybody had great observations, I couldn't fathom what in the world this was, and never seen one before.

Thanks Jim, Pure chance as it happens as I was looking at Genoese links possibly tied to the Nimcha conundrum and it just appeared. VANDOO had placed such a clear picture it had stuck in my mind from a couple of years ago...I thought it was a bullfighters weapon..ha!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[spiral]

A great thread! Good work! fascinating!

Spiral

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Ibrahiim,
Nicely done and well remembered. I'm sure there are more than a few Forum members, mostly of a certain age group :eek: :o , who are rather envious of your capacity for recollection. :)
My Regards,
Norman.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
Nicely done and well remembered. I'm sure there are more than a few Forum members, mostly of a certain age group :eek: :o , who are rather envious of your capacity for recollection. :)
My Regards,
Norman.

Salaams Norman... I've forgotten more stuff than I can remember ...where was I ?? er.... :)

Pleasure to help...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Emanuel]

Here are a few relevant pages from "Il Coltello Genovese" Most of the illustrated examples seem to date from the 17-18th centuries.

The text is basically descriptive. I can provide rough translations but I'm sure there are native Italian speakers on the forum that might help.

Emanuel

[Emanuel]

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