Sinhala / Sri Lankan Swords?

[KuKulzA28]

Hello! I've been curious about Sinhala swords... There doesn't seem to be as much information of Sri Lankan arms on this forum as there is on say Indo-Persian, European, Moro, and others. All I found were a few threads about Piha Kaetta and Kastane.

Does anyone have knowledge and/or sources on Sinhala weaponry especially swords? Anyone actually own examples?

Aside from kastane, the few images I have seen are from the angampora website which shows "urumi"-like flexible blades and also rustic looking sabers/cutlasses with simple guards and wooden cylindrical grips.

I have little to no knowledge of Sinhala swords and other weapons, so I was hoping maybe some EAA Forum members would have knowledge on this matter.

Thanks! :)

[VANDOO]

THE WEAPONS OF CEYLON / SIRI LANKA SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED. PERHAPS THERE IS A SCHOLAR OUT THERE SOMEWHERE PUTTING TOGETHER A REFRENCE BUT I PERSONALLY KNOW OF NO BETTER REFRENCE THAN WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COBBLE TOGETHER HERE ON THE FORUM. THE THREE FORMS WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ASSOCIATE PRIMARILY WITH CEYLON ARE THE KASTANE, PHIA AND A FORM OF SPEAR.
I WASN'T ABLE TO DO MUCH EXCEPT TRY AND IDENTIFY WHAT DIFFERENT MATERIALS WERE USED IN CONSTRUCTION OF THESE WEAPONS AS WELL AS TAKEING APART A PHIA THAT WAS IN BAD SHAPE TO SEE HOW IT WAS PUT TOGETHER. FOUND ONE EXAMPLE WITH A BRONZE BLADE BUT ALL OTHERS HAD STEEL BLADES, CLEANED THE BLADE ON THE DIS- ASSEMBLED PHIA BUT SAW NO SIGNS OF PATTERN IN THE STEEL.

I WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME THERE WERE MANY OTHER FORMS OF WEAPONS USED EVEN WAR ELEPHANTS WERE USED, SO THERE MUST HAVE BEEN WEAPONS ASSOCIATED WITH THEM. THE PROBLEM IS I SUSPECT MANY WEAPONS WERE COPYED OR IMPORTED FROM INDIA SO DISTINGUISHING A WEAPON OF A COMMON INDIAN FORM WAS FROM CEYLON WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC. MOST LIKELY ALL THE WEAPON FORMS PRESENT IN SOUTHERN INDIA WERE USED IN CEYLON AS WELL.
THE KASTANCE IS SET APART AS THE NATIONAL SWORD OF CEYLON, I DON'T KNOW WHEN OR WHY IT WAS DESIGNATED AS SUCH.? THE PHIA IS ALSO A SPECIAL FORM ASSOCIATED WITH CEYLON, THESE TWO FORMS MAY HAVE BEEN PRESENT IN INDIA AS WELL. WE WERE LUCKY THAT ONE MEMBER HAD A VERY LARGE COLLECTION OF PHIA SO WE AT LEAST HAD A WIDE RANGE OF THEM TO OBSERVE AND DISCUSS BUT MORE RESEARCH NEEDS TO BE DONE. PERHAPS THERE ARE REFRENCES AVAILABLE SOMEWHERE ON THE SUBJECT BUT I AM NOT AWARE OF THEM.

[KuKulzA28]

Vandoo, I appreciate the feedback. I guess I shall start researching Southern Indian arms more thoroughly and hopefully get a better idea of what Sinhala warriors used. As I've said, some of the weapons shown in angampora look very similar to those in kalaripayattu.

[Gavin Nugent]

There is an older publication about these weapons, a very small one but it is somewhere to start...I have it amongst my library but it is like a say small in in the ocean of books and paperwork and I can not currently locate it...I am sure Jim will be able to recall the title with ease.

Gav

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

There has been a very good publication " Ancient Swords, Daggers & Knives in Sri Lankan Museums" by P.H.D.H. De Silva and S. Wickramasinghe, - Sri Lanka National Museums Publication. 2006

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=VANDOO]THE WEAPONS OF CEYLON / SIRI LANKA SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED. PERHAPS THERE IS A SCHOLAR OUT THERE SOMEWHERE PUTTING TOGETHER A REFRENCE

Salaams Vandoo, I certainly hope so!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Runjeet Singh]

I think the small book Gav is talking about is 'Sinhala Weapons and Armour' by P.E.P.Deraniyagala, originally published in 1942 but recently re-printed by Ken Trotman Publishing http://www.kentrotman.com/indexmn.htm

It's a must have for anyone studying Indian or Sinhalese Arms.

Regards,
Runjeet

[VVV]

I also collected Sri Lankan swords years ago before I decided to focus on those from the Malay archipelagos.
There is a subchapter in H. Parker's Ancient Ceylon from 1909 on "The Ancient Weapons", consisting of 28 pages.
Below are the main illustrations.

On page 532 is mentioned:
"The Kris, Kriciya (c pronounced as ch), is shown by its name to be borrowed from Malaya. It is rarely seen, and does not often appear in the wihara paintings; but is represented at the Dambuhalla wihara, where it is held as a dagger. The fact that a broken blade which appears to belong to this weapon, with at least three bends, was discovered in the Tissa excavations, in the lowest pottery stratum, proves that it had been introduced into the island in very early times. Unfortunately I preserved no drawing of the blade, which is now in the Colombo museum."

Maybe some forumite can take a look in Colombo what it looks like and if it really is an old keris?

Michael

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Prasanna for the update on the museum publication, and I would add the article also by de Silva;
"Unique Kastane Sword in Japan", Sunday Observer, 15 Nov 1998.
This is the source for the reference I noted in earlier discussions concerning the term 'kastane' likely deriving from the Portuguese 'castao' for the decorative hilt of a walking stick.
This provides a presumed early period for the zoomorphic hilt and quillon system on these swords as the example in Japan is from the Hasekura Tsunenaga embassy sent by Date Masamune 1613 return to Sendai, Japan in 1620.

This example is believed to have been obtained in Spain from Philip III and presented to Hasekura in reciprocation for Japanese weapons gifted, as it was unlawful to give Spanish weapons so this was in lieu. It is unclear how the kastane reached Spain, but these were clearly stately weapons which were also found with English merchants (Alexander Popham).
from : "The Kastane and the Keris and Thier Arrival in Japan, 1620"
Sasaki Kazuhiro, Royal Armouries Yearbook, Vol.3, 1998

Also discussed in "A Fundamental Study on Hasekuras keris and Kastane"
Bulletin of Sendai City Museum, Japan

The Deraniyagala reference(1942) noted by Runjeet, is the only truly comprehensive work on Sinhalese weapons overall, and some of these references are noted in
Robert Elgood, "Hindu Arms and Ritual" (London , 2004).

An article titled "A Royal Dagger from Ceylon"
J.F.Pieris
'The Connoisseur" 1938
discusses the iron smelting and production of royal arms in the Kandyan shops in the island interior.
* iron smelters were discovered archaeologically in 1996 ("Ancient Smelter Used Wind to Make High Grade Steel", John Noble Wilford, N.Y.Times Feb. 6, 1996).

The kastane is of course referenced in Stones glossary, and cursorily noted in many general arms references where it has been claimed to be the 'national sword of Sri Lanka'.


These are added to the already listed materials discussing the fascinating arms of Sri Lanka, and now that we have them established, there are many questions unresolved on the kastane.

1. What creatures are represented in the pommel of the kastane and the quillons.? While the sinha (lion) is suggested, might this be the makara, and the quillon heads as well?

2. Is the kastane in its hilt configuration derived from the Arabian sa'if, or directly from European hilts such as those from North Italy, which also appear to have been the influence for the sa'if.

3. Was the kastane hilt with its zoomorphic pommel influenced by European hilts with lion or mythologic creature heads popularized by trade contact, or vice versa? We have established the motif of what appears to be a kastane with the Hasekura sword c.1620.

4. Were these kastanes actually fighting swords, or courtly and status swords worn by merchants and individuals of status.

5. Were the blades typically produced in the Kandyan shops, why were many with trade blades such as VOC blades in the 18th century.

Its good to have you back with this topic Prasanna, and I hope we can get discussion going on this clearly under researched topic!

Thank you again!

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank you Prasanna for the update on the museum publication, and I would add the article also by de Silva;
"Unique Kastane Sword in Japan", Sunday Observer, 15 Nov 1998.
This is the source for the reference I noted in earlier discussions concerning the term 'kastane' likely deriving from the Portuguese 'castao' for the decorative hilt of a walking stick.
This provides a presumed early period for the zoomorphic hilt and quillon system on these swords as the example in Japan is from the Hasekura Tsunenaga embassy sent by Date Masamune 1613 return to Sendai, Japan in 1620.

This example is believed to have been obtained in Spain from Philip III and presented to Hasekura in reciprocation for Japanese weapons gifted, as it was unlawful to give Spanish weapons so this was in lieu. It is unclear how the kastane reached Spain, but these were clearly stately weapons which were also found with English merchants (Alexander Popham).
from : "The Kastane and the Keris and Thier Arrival in Japan, 1620"
Sasaki Kazuhiro, Royal Armouries Yearbook, Vol.3, 1998

Also discussed in "A Fundamental Study on Hasekuras keris and Kastane"
Bulletin of Sendai City Museum, Japan

The Deraniyagala reference(1942) noted by Runjeet, is the only truly comprehensive work on Sinhalese weapons overall, and some of these references are noted in
Robert Elgood, "Hindu Arms and Ritual" (London , 2004).

An article titled "A Royal Dagger from Ceylon"
J.F.Pieris
'The Connoisseur" 1938
discusses the iron smelting and production of royal arms in the Kandyan shops in the island interior.
* iron smelters were discovered archaeologically in 1996 ("Ancient Smelter Used Wind to Make High Grade Steel", John Noble Wilford, N.Y.Times Feb. 6, 1996).

The kastane is of course referenced in Stones glossary, and cursorily noted in many general arms references where it has been claimed to be the 'national sword of Sri Lanka'.


These are added to the already listed materials discussing the fascinating arms of Sri Lanka, and now that we have them established, there are many questions unresolved on the kastane.

1. What creatures are represented in the pommel of the kastane and the quillons.? While the sinha (lion) is suggested, might this be the makara, and the quillon heads as well?

2. Is the kastane in its hilt configuration derived from the Arabian sa'if, or directly from European hilts such as those from North Italy, which also appear to have been the influence for the sa'if.

3. Was the kastane hilt with its zoomorphic pommel influenced by European hilts with lion or mythologic creature heads popularized by trade contact, or vice versa? We have established the motif of what appears to be a kastane with the Hasekura sword c.1620.

4. Were these kastanes actually fighting swords, or courtly and status swords worn by merchants and individuals of status.

5. Were the blades typically produced in the Kandyan shops, why were many with trade blades such as VOC blades in the 18th century.

Its good to have you back with this topic Prasanna, and I hope we can get discussion going on this clearly under researched topic!

Thank you again!

All the very best,
Jim

Salaams Jim, May I reply in stages to this very complex issue as follows
Stage 1. General detail. This Post.
Stage 2. Myths and the Historical mix up. Next Post.



Thank you for the excellent appraisal of the research so far on Kastane and your poignant remark at the end Quote "this clearly under researched topic"! Unquote. It is indeed or it was ~ that is ~ until now where I hope we are going to blow the lid clean off its shrouded mystery.

What I intend to reveal is~

1. That the Lion (which is a European invention has nothing to do with Sri Lanka and that the Kastane is in fact purely derived from the Macara.. A mythological sea beast that is often displayed emitting other creatures from its wide jaws...thus the additional heads on the knuckle guard etc.

2. That the 3 ruling invaders induced a mystery that has yet to be unveiled around the Kastane and indeed the National Flag.

3. That the Kastane may once have been a weapon but was reduced to the role of court dagger/sword because of restrictions on wearing weapons though it was used in certain circles (Popham Armour refers.) and as a known one off gift to Japan.


Stage 1 General Detail.

Forum is advised that this sword and its history exist behind a myriad of sliding doors and mirrors clouded by 3 invading nations activities ; The Portuguese, The Dutch and the British. As a nation Sri Lanka was splintered into separate kingdoms before and during these invasion periods~all or some of which were for or against the foreign rulers (or both) in varying degrees. The net effect (insofaras history and thus ethnographic arms is concerned) has been a swiveling, changing and altered historical record changed to meet the whims and political status quo at the time and which I will show as instrumental in the importation of the European Lion and its spurious adoption onto the Sri Lankan National Flag!

Such is the impact of the lion that some even use the term to describe the hilt of the Kastane as being a lions head, however, I will show that it is in fact the Macara; The ancient mythical creature respected in religious circles far beyond Sri Lanka across Buddhist and Hindu borders into China, Vietnam, India, Burma and beyond. History therefor depended on who was the ruling power and has been rewritten accordingly. To find out the truth about the Kastana will mean stripping away the shall we say "artistic licence" to get near the facts.

Not withstanding the Machiavellian skullduggery lies and deceit ~ :D ~ I would like to copy in a useful document on Sri Lankan steel work as follows..though this specialty seems to have closed in the 11th Century it is recorded (and I have it penciled in the margin for later ~ that the Royal Court workshop in at least one separate Sri lankan Kingdom has a devoted department in its craft workshops for sword making. This may also be very relevant to any supposition on Kastana production.

I Quote Sri Lankan Wind-Powered Furnaces; Volume 49 Number 5, September/October 1996
by Brett Leslie Freese

As early as the seventh century A.D. Sri Lankans made steel in furnaces powered by monsoon winds, a previously unknown ancient technology. Forty-one iron-smelting furnaces have been found at a site in the arid region of Samanalawewa, according to Gill Juleff, director of the excavations for Sri Lanka's Archaeological Department.

Archaeologists had rejected the possibility of wind-driven furnaces because they believed that air blowing into them would not be sufficiently constant to sustain the high-temperature charcoal fires needed for smelting. To test this assumption, Juleff and her team built two replica furnaces based on the remains of those found at the site. Smelting trials revealed that monsoon winds blowing over the tops of the furnaces' front walls caused air to be drawn through conduits into the furnaces at a continuous rate. About half of the metal produced in these trials was high-quality steel.

Juleff says at least 76 other smelting sites identified in the region indicate that "the scale of operations went far beyond any village-based local activity." An estimated annual output of ten tons of steel from these sites was possibly traded in the Indian Ocean region. Sri Lankan steel, mentioned in ninth-century Islamic literature, may have been used for the blades of Damascus swords. Carbon-dated charcoal indicates that the furnaces were used until the eleventh century A.D. Unquote.

History Detail; Whilst it is not immediately imperative to read and absorb the historical detail ~ since this is a full on assault on the otherwise largely misreported and misrepresented Kastane situation I have placed it for on going reference.


Quote "By the late fifteenth century, Portugal, which had already established its dominance as a maritime power in the Atlantic, was exploring new waters. In 1497 Vasco da Gama sailed around the Cape of Good Hope and discovered an ocean route connecting Europe with India, thus inaugurating a new era of maritime supremacy for Portugal. The Portuguese were consumed by two objectives in their empire-building efforts: to convert followers of non-Christian religions to Roman Catholicism and to capture the major share of the spice trade for the European market. To carry out their goals, the Portuguese did not seek territorial conquest, which would have been difficult given their small numbers. Instead, they tried to dominate strategic points through which trade passed. By virtue of their supremacy on the seas, their knowledge of firearms, and by what has been called their "desperate soldiering" on land, the Portuguese gained an influence in South Asia that was far out of proportion to their numerical strength.
At the onset of the European period in Sri Lanka in the sixteenth century, there were three native centers of political power: the two Sinhalese kingdoms of Kotte and Kandy and the Tamil kingdom at Jaffna. Kotte was the principal seat of Sinhalese power, and it claimed a largely imaginary overlordship not only over Kandy but also over the entire island. None of the three kingdoms, however, had the strength to assert itself over the other two and reunify the island.
In 1505 Don Lourenço de Almeida, son of the Portuguese viceroy in India, was sailing off the southwestern coast of Sri Lanka looking for Moorish ships to attack when stormy weather forced his fleet to dock at Galle. Word of these strangers who "eat hunks of white stone and drink blood (presumably wine). . . and have guns with a noise louder than thunder. . ." spread quickly and reached King Parakramabahu VIII of Kotte (1484-1508), who offered gifts of cinnamon and elephants to the Portuguese to take back to their home port at Cochin on the Malabar Coast of southwestern India. The king also gave the Portuguese permission to build a residence in Colombo for trade purposes. Within a short time, however, Portuguese militaristic and monopolistic intentions became apparent. Their heavily fortified "trading post" at Colombo and open hostility toward the island's Muslim traders aroused Sinhalese suspicions.
Following the decline of the Chola as a maritime power in the twelfth century, Muslim trading communities in South Asia claimed a major share of commerce in the Indian Ocean and developed extensive east-west, as well as Indo-Sri Lankan, commercial trade routes. As the Portuguese expanded into the region, this flourishing Muslim trade became an irresistible target for European interlopers. The sixteenth-century Roman Catholic Church was intolerant of Islam and encouraged the Portuguese to take over the profitable shipping trade monopolized by the Moors. In addition, the Portuguese would later have another strong motive for hostility toward the Moors because the latter played an important role in the Kandyan economy, one that enabled the kingdom successfully to resist the Portuguese.
The Portuguese soon decided that the island, which they called Cilao, conveyed a strategic advantage that was necessary for protecting their coastal establishments in India and increasing Lisbon's potential for dominating Indian Ocean trade. These incentives proved irresistible, and, the Portuguese, with only a limited number of personnel, sought to extend their power over the island. They had not long to wait. Palace intrigue and then revolution in Kotte threatened the survival of the kingdom. The Portuguese skillfully exploited these developments. In 1521 Bhuvanekabahu, the ruler of Kotte, requested Portuguese aid against his brother, Mayadunne, the more able rival king who had established his independence from the Portuguese at Sitawake, a domain in the Kotte kingdom. Powerless on his own, King Bhuvanekabahu became a puppet of the Portuguese. But shortly before his death in 1551, the king successfully obtained Portuguese recognition of his grandson, Dharmapala, as his successor. Portugal pledged to protect Dharmapala from attack in return for privileges, including a continuous payment in cinnamon and permission to rebuild the fort at Colombo on a grander scale. When Bhuvanekabahu died, Dharmapala, still a child, was entrusted to the Franciscans for his education, and, in 1557, he converted to Roman Catholicism. His conversion broke the centuries-old connection between Buddhism and the state, and a great majority of Sinhalese immediately disqualified the young monarch from any claim to the throne. The rival king at Sitawake exploited the issue of the prince's conversion and accused Dharmapala of being a puppet of a foreign power.
Before long, rival King Mayadunne had annexed much of the Kotte kingdom and was threatening the security of the capital city itself. The Portuguese were obliged to defend Dharmapala (and their own credibility) because the ruler lacked a popular following. They were subsequently forced to abandon Kotte and retreat to Colombo, taking the despised puppet king with them. Mayadunne and, later, his son, Rajasinha, besieged Colombo many times. The latter was so successful that the Portuguese were once even forced to eat the flesh of their dead to avoid starvation. The Portuguese would probably have lost their holdings in Sri Lanka had they not had maritime superiority and been able to send reinforcements by sea from their base at Goa on the western coast of India.
The Kingdom of Sitawake put up the most vigorous opposition to Western imperialism in the island's history. For the seventy- three-year period of its existence, Sitawake (1521-94) rose to become the predominant power on the island, with only the Tamil kingdom at Jaffna and the Portuguese fort at Colombo beyond its control. When Rajasinha died in 1593, no effective successors were left to consolidate his gains, and the kingdom collapsed as quickly as it had arisen.
Dharmapala, despised by his countrymen and totally compromised by the Portuguese, was deprived of all his royal duties and became completely manipulated by the Portuguese advisers surrounding him. In 1580 the Franciscans persuaded him to make out a deed donating his dominions to the king of Portugal. When Dharmapala died in 1597, the Portuguese emissary, the captain-general, took formal possession of the kingdom.
Portuguese missionaries had also been busily involving themselves in the affairs of the Tamil kingdom at Jaffna, converting almost the entire island of Mannar to Roman Catholicism by 1544. The reaction of Sangily, king of Jaffna, however, was to lead an expedition to Mannar and decapitate the resident priest and about 600 of his congregation. The king of Portugal took this as a personal affront and sent several expeditions against Jaffna. The Portuguese, having disposed of the Tamil king who fled south, installed one of the Tamil princes on the throne, obliging him to pay an annual tribute. In 1619 Lisbon annexed the Kingdom of Jaffna.
After the annexation of Jaffna, only the central highland Kingdom of Kandy--the last remnant of Buddhist Singhalese power-- remained independent of uese control. The kingdom acquired a new significance as custodian of Singhalese nationalism. The Portuguese attempted the same strategy they had used successfully at Kotte and Jaffna and set up a puppet on the throne. They were able to put a queen on the Kandyan throne and even to have her baptized. But despite considerable Portuguese help, she was not able to retain power. The Portuguese spent the next half century trying in vain to expand their control over the Kingdom of Kandy. In one expedition in 1630, the Kandyans ambushed and massacred the whole Portuguese force, including the captain-general. The Kandyans fomented rebellion and consistently frustrated Portuguese attempts to expand into the interior.
The areas the Portuguese claimed to control in Sri Lanka were part of what they majestically called the Estado da India and were governed in name by the viceroy in Goa, who represented the king. But in actuality, from headquarters in Colombo, the captain-general, a subordinate of the viceroy, directly ruled Sri Lanka with all the affectations of royalty once reserved for the Sinhalese kings.
The Portuguese did not try to alter the existing basic structure of native administration. Although Portuguese governors were put in charge of each province, the customary hierarchy, determined by caste and land ownership, remained unchanged. Traditional Singhalese institutions were maintained and placed at the service of the new rulers. Portuguese administrators offered land grants to Europeans and Singhalese in place of salaries, and the traditional compulsory labor obligation was used for construction and military purposes.
The Portuguese tried vigorously, if not fanatically, to force religious and, to a lesser extent, educational, change in Sri Lanka. They discriminated against other religions with a vengeance, destroyed Buddhist and Hindu temples, and gave the temple lands to Roman Catholic religious orders. Buddhist monks fled to Kandy, which became a refuge for people disaffected with colonial rule. One of the most durable legacies of the Portuguese was the conversion of a large number of Sinhalese and Tamils to Roman Catholicism. Although small pockets of Nestorian Christianity had existed in Sri Lanka, the Portuguese were the first to propagate Christianity on a mass scale.
Sixteenth-century Portuguese Catholicism was intolerant. But perhaps because it caught Buddhism at its nadir, it nevertheless became rooted firmly enough on the island to survive the subsequent persecutions of the Protestant Dutch Reformists. The Roman Catholic Church was especially effective in fishing communities--both Singhalese and Tamil--and contributed to the upward mobility of the castes associated with this occupation. Portuguese emphasis on proselytization spurred the development and standardization of educational institutions. In order to convert the masses, mission schools were opened, with instruction in Portuguese and Singhalese or Tamil. Many Singhalese converts assumed Portuguese names. The rise of many families influential in the twentieth century dates from this period. For a while, Portuguese became not only the language of the upper classes of Sri Lanka but also the lingua franca of prominence in the Asian maritime world".
Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Ibrahiim! and for noting my comment on under research on the kastane, as seen in the relative dearth of material on them specifically as noted. Interestingly this is characteristic of many weapon forms, with many ethnographic forms particularly the case. While many forms such as Japanese swords, and the keris for example, have been afforded focused study which has become virtually a kind of science in itself, others have remained relatively generally recognized near cliches'.

I believe the kastane, often termed the national sword of Ceylon, now of course Sri Lanka, is a good example of the way ethnographic weapon forms often reflect deep cultural influences, both traditional and the effects of external circumstances. As is often the case, colonization, geopolitical events, trade and warfare are key factors which may be reflected in weapons which have become in many senses, cultural icons.

It has seemed that mysteries of the deeper history of the kastane have remained almost complacently accepted, and the simple identification as a form indiginous to Sri Lanka regarded as sufficient. Personally I have always believed that this is markedly insufficient, and that these arms like many other ethnographic forms, deserve to have thier true histories researched, studied, and preserved.
This is why I believe we are here, and I hope that with the participation of the remarkably knowledgeable membership here, we can not only advance our understanding of the kastane, but continue the long standing study of other forms which has been in place here as well.

All very best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ In this post I intend to show the spurious nature of a cornerstone Sri Lankan hypothesis ...in fact a mistake ...The Lion and how it has been misapplied as descibing the head of the Kastane Sword... which is in fact The Macara. If any emblem were to accurately descibe the historical nature of the nation then The Sun abd Moon or even The Macara itself would certainly fit the bill ! however ~

The Lion on the National Flag. In showing that this simply doesn't stack up I will then in my next post show how the Kastane developed originally ~but succumbed to similar mythology in being exported amongst other things as
a BELLY DANCING TOOL!!


Stage 2 The Myths...Quote

"1. The 'Lion' myth
(History and Myths)
Many modern myths have been spun around the Lion flag which was adopted in 1950 as the National flag of Sri Lanka.

Myth #1
The first myth is that Vijaya, the first King of Sri Lanka, arrived in Sri Lanka in 486 BCE, with a lion flag and that since then the Lion symbol played a significant role in the history of Sri Lanka. It is also claimed that the lion flag was used extensively by monarchs who followed Vijaya and it became a symbol of freedom and hope.

There is absolutely no historical evidence to justify such claims. On the contrary, none of the Kings and Queens of Anuradhapura or Polonnaruwa have ever claimed to be Sinhalese. But they have consistently claimed in their inscriptions to be from the Kshatriya race and the Indian Sun Dynasty and Lunar Dynasty ( proven by ancient Sri Lankan stone inscriptions in Sun & Moon symbols). The ancient Mahavamsa chronicle of Sri Lanka too refers to the ancient kings and queens of Sri Lanka, not as Sinhalese, but as Kshatriyas from the Solar and Lunar dynasties.

Accordingly their royal symbols were the Sun and the Moon. The Lion was not a royal symbol for these ancient monarchs and they used the lion image on foot-stones at entrances to buildings and on urinal-stones. The lion appears to have been an important symbol only for the Indian born Kalinga kings of Sri Lanka, particularly king Nissankamalla (1187-1196 ) who claimed to hail from Sinhapura (lion city). Nissankamalla and other Kalinga monarchs used the lion symbol extensively and popularized it's use during their reigns.

The Karava Singhe dynasty of Jaffna (which succeeded the Kalinga dynasty rulers of Jaffna) too appear to have used the lion symbol as evidenced by the name of the dynasty and the crest of their Karava descendants. Intermarriage with the Kalinga royal families could explain the transfer of their symbolism to the Karavas and explain the existence of ancient Karava Lion flags in Sri Lanka.

The lion was also the symbol of the south Indan Pallava kings. Pallava coins with the Pallava lion emblem are found in Sri Lanka too and these coins are knowingly or unknowingly mistaken by some as Sinhalese lion coins.

The Sinhalese word for "Throne' , Sinhasana is probably derived from Tamil Singasanam and could have been popularised by the Singha dynasty of Jaffna and the connected Karava Raja-Singhe kings of Kandy. It is interesting to note that Dona Catherina the sole heiress to the Kandyan kingdom is referred to in Sinhalese as Kusumasana Devi (ie queen of the Flower throne)

Myth #2
that all, or at least a majority, of the Sinhala speaking people in Sri Lanka are descendants of Vijaya and that their original ancestor was a Lion.

According to history, there was no such Mega Sinhala race in Sri Lanka until the British period. And the fact that most castes have their own origin stories proves this. For Instance the Salagamas caste traces it’s origin in Sri Lanka to Nambudiri and other Saligrama Brahmins who came over from Malabar (i.e. Kerala) at the invitation of king Vathhimi Buvenekabahu of Sri Lanka. The ‘muni’ clan names of the Salagamas bear testimony to their Brahmin origins. The Durava Caste traces its origins from the Nagas and retinues of Pandyan consorts. The Navandanna caste traces it’s origin to Vishwakarma. According to J. Kulatilleka, the Deva Kula (Also known as Wahumpura, Hakuru etc) are descended from a deified ruler of Sabaragamuwa named Sumana. (Ravaya 30 August 1998). According to Warnapurage Lal Chandrasena of Wellawatte, the Sunnakkara Kula (Also known as Hunu) are descended from the traditional architects and Engineers of Sri Lanka (Ravaya 13 September 1998). According to T. Jinadasa Fernando Municipal Councillor of Telawala Moratuwa, Kumbal Kula (Also known as Badal, Badahela etc.) are descended from the first humans to graduate from wild men to humans who cooked their food in clay pots; Cultivating and other occupations are breakaways from this first quantum leap. (Ravaya 18 October 1998). According to I. Gunaratna of Malvana, the Bathgama caste is descended from the original pre- Vijayan, Yakka (also called Yaksha) inhabitants of Sri Lanka; They were expert Artificers. (Ravaya 13 December 1998). The 'Govi Caste', according to the Janawamsayaa and other sources, sprung from the feet of Brahma as this fourth category was the lowest of the four caste groups. And the modern Govigama caste is an identity created during the British period by the De Saram Mudaliar family of mixed origins. (see Govigama) Many successful individuals of unknown provenance joined the Govigama group during the British period. Several other castes trace their origin to the guilds that arrived with the sacred Bodhi tree.

Interestingly not a single caste has an origin story connecting it to Vijaya or a beastly lion ancestor. And according the Mahavamsa the term Sinhala could be applied only to the initial royal family and not to the population at large. And according to the chronicles Vijaya did not father a successor.

Myth #3
that the legendary King Dutugemunu carried with him a banner with a sword bearing lion when he embarked on his campaign to defeat King Elara.

However although Dutugemunu is the hero of the Mahavamsa, that great chronicle says nothing about a lion flag or a lion race. Those who believe this myth refer to a mural at the ancient Dambulla cave temple but they fail to realise that although the Dambulla temple is ancient, the particular mural is only about 200 years old and from the British period !!

Myth #4
The fourth myth is that a Lion flag was the royal banner of the Kotte kingdom.

There is absolutely no evidence to support such a claim. A fake flag of a whip bearing lion is now being popularized as the ancient flag of the Kotte kingdom but there is absolutely no historical evidence as to the existence of such a flag in the Kotte kingdom.

On the contrary the literature of the period including the Sandesha Kavya say that the rampart of the Kotte kingdom was adorned with Tiger faces (Puli mukha in Thisara sandesha) and that Makara flags (Muvara dada in the Kau Silumina and min dada in the Thisara Sandesha) of victory flew over the city of Kotte. The Thisara Sandesha says that the Garuda flag was a royal flag of the Kotte kingdom. It is important to note that both the Makara flag and the Garuda flag are traditional flags of the Karava community.

The coins issued by King Parakramabahu VI for the kingdom of Jaffna did have a Lion on it. But that was because the reigning royal dynasty of Jaffna at that time was the Karava Singha (Lion) dynasty. The lion on the coins probably gave them more acceptability in the region. More importantly we need to note that the coins issued by Parakramabahu Vi for the Kotte kingdom didn't have a lion on them.

Myth #5
The fifth myth is that a Lion flag was the royal banner of the last King of Sri Lanka, Sri Vikrama Rajasinghe (1798-1815). ~

1.Firstly, King Sri Wikrama Rajasinghe and the other Kandyan kings were not Sinhalese. They were Indian Kshattriya Vaduga kings.
2.Secondly there is no historical evidence to say that King Sri Wikrama Rajasinghe used a lion flag as his royal standard.

The royal grants of the king nor the literary work from the period talk about a lion or a lion flag. European eye witness accounts from the period say that the king’s banner was the Sun and Moon banner and that various other flags with animal motifs were also used. And indeed many flags with animal motifs (swans, peacocks, deer, bears, lions, elephants, leopards, cranes and numerous other birds etc ) have been found in Kandy and elsewhere… as "simply other miscellaneous items".

"Percival" writing in 1805 refers to flags with the sun emblem being carried before Sri Vikrama Rajasinha (AD 1798 - 1815), the last king of Kandy (Percival, Account of the Island of Ceylon, pp 267, 268). It is interesting to note that the lion flag which is now believed to have been the personal banner of the king is not mentioned by Percival or any others.

Going back a few centuries to 1639, the reign of king Rajasinghe II, which is a century before the Nayakkar dynasty inherited the Kandyan kingdom, we see that the Sun and Moon flag was the flag carried in the vanguard of royal pageants (Abeyawardana p 145)

Although the lion was not a heraldic symbol of the Kandyan kings, the Lion was indeed a very important heraldic symbol for the Dutch. The Dutch who were ruling the coastal areas during the Kandyan period. Their heraldic lion is to be found on almost all Dutch coins issued during that period (17 - 18thC). The use of lion imagery by the Dutch had nothing to do with a Sinhala race.

The lion was a prominent Dutch royal symbol and it was used by the Dutch also on coins issued by them in other colonies in Asia and even as far as America. Inevitably the Dutch flags of the period too would have had similar lions on them. As such the prevalent use of lions by the Dutch appears to have had an influence on Kandyan flags too. The Kandyan flags with lions and other animals with European style iconography might even have been drawn by European captives living in the Kandyan kingdom or done by local artists who were inspired by the novel Dutch designs.

Myth #6
The sixth myth is that the flag had bo-leaves at the four corners from its inception to represent Buddhism.

The bo-leaves in the four corners replaced the European style finials ('Banku Kakul' in Sinhala language) only in 1972. But this myth and the others appear even on government documents and web sites and have been repeated so often that they are now accepted as fact by many.

Development of the 'Lion flag' myth
The opportunities offered by the liquor trade in the 19th century had produced a new class of wealthy Sri Lankans. Some of the liquor dealers to amass large fortunes during this period were Don Spater Senanayake (see his details under Mudaliyars) the Father of D. S. Senanayake and Wevage Arnolis Dep (whose daughter Helena married timber trader Don Philip Wijewardene the ancestor of J. R. Jayawardene and Ranil Wickremasinge)

At the turn of the century, the second generation of these families were striving hard to gain power and status through divisive means such as religious controversies, temperance movements and anti-Muslim riots.
The older class of Dutch and British appointed Mudaliyars were disdainful of this class of new rich people who were clamouring to join the 'Govigama identity' (see Govigama) created by the Mudaliyar class. Sir Christoffel Obeyesekere the most prominent member from the Mudaliyar class referred to these new rich group; D. S. Senanayake, his two brothers F.R and D.C and others as “a few who are nobodies, but who hope to make somebodies of themselves by disgraceful tactics”. It’s this outburst by Sir Christoffel that gives Kumari Jayawardena the title for her insightful book on this period, ‘Nobodies to Somebodies - The Rise of the Colonial Bourgeoisie in Sri Lanka'.

The search for a 'Sinhala' racial flag by this group led to E. W. Perera's so called discovery of three Kandyan flags in England. These were flags taken away by Captain Pollock in 1803, and hung at the Chelsea Royal Hospital alongside other captured flags, colonial trophies from many other colonies. Perera was neither a historian nor an expert on flags but had been sent to England by the Wijewardene / Senanayake cabal to promote their political agenda. However permission for Perera's trip to England had been obtained by saying it was for 'research at the British Museum' .

As such on his return, in 1916 E. W. Perera published the book 'Sinhalese Banners and Standards; with a commercially designed, spurious lion flag as it's frontispiece. The book promoted a concocted case to accept that flag as the national flag.

The three Kandyan flags "discovered" by Perera at the hospital were hopelessly faded and could be identified only by the name plates on the wall. Perera admits that the flags were too faded even to get a sketch from them. He says that he sketched the lion flag not by looking at the flag but from the identifying plaque on the wall. However the official colour copies of these flags procured by the crown agents for the Colombo Museum had been rejected by Perera saying they were inaccurate and useless. (Perera 3). In their place Perere chose the commercially designed and drawn spurious lion flag.

Bishop Edmund Peiris who also saw the flags confirms that that all three flags were hopelessly faded. According to him two of the flags hung by the second window on the left as you enter and the third hung from the organ loft which then contained lumber. In the office of the Chelsea Hospital Bishop Peiris had seen the record of colour sketches of all the flags in the Hall. This record had been titled “Collection of trophies deposited in the Royal Hospital, Chelsea / copied from the original book of Drawings and Descriptions arranged and compiled in 1841 by S. Ford, Captain of Invalids / 1861” (Peiris 271).
As such it is indeed surprising that E. W. Perera chose to reject the official colour copies of the lion flag procured by the Crown Agents and instead readily accepted an illustration privately commissioned by D. R. Wijewardene. A commercial artist had drawn it for a private firm in London and E. W. Perera used it as the frontispiece for his book on ancient flags and it was used as the Flag of Ceylon from 1948-1951.

It should also be noted that according to the wall plaques at the Chelsea Royal Hospital, the royal standard of Sri Vickrama Rajasingha was not the flag copied by Perera but the martial flag. Perera has totally omitted this flag and has not even included an illustration of this flag in his book.

Further, the lion on the Sri Lankan flag doesn't resemble any of the lion motifs from Sri Lanka’s history. The lion on the flag is clearly a design inspired by European heraldic lions. . As admitted by Perera himself in his book , it is a design drawn by a commercial British artist. As such the European nature of the lion is to be expected.

On March 2, 1915, D. R. Wijewardene issued a special edition of his Sinhala newspaper Dinamina, to mark the centenary of the so called ‘end of Sinhala independence’, and promoted this Lion flag in colour on the front page with portraits of the last King and Queen of Kandy. Ironically neither the king nor the Queen were Sinhalese. They were The Vaduga king Sri Wikrama Rajasinghe and his Chief Queen Rengammal. The main purpose of E. W. Perera’s ‘Sinhalese banners and Standards’ published in 1916 too appears to be the promotion of the spurious Lion Flag as the royal flag of Sri Lanka.
However, after preparing the background for adopting this flag as the flag of independent Sri Lanka, the Wijewardene / Senanayake cabal enlisted the obliging Muslim Mudaliyar , A. L. Sinnelebbe, the Member of Parliament for Batticaloa to move a motion in parliament calling for the adoption of this flag.
As such this was the flag hoisted by D. S. Senanayake at the independence festivities on February 04, 1948. This Lion flag has been a bone of contention from day one and is still an obstacle to national integration and peace.

References
• Abeyawardana H. A. P. 1978 Kadaim Poth Vimarshanaya (A critical study of Kadaim poth) Department of Cultural Affairs Sri Lanka
• Paranavitana Senerat 1967 Sinhalayo Colombo
• Perera E. W. 1916 Sinhalese Banners and Standards, Colombo
• Peiris Bishop Edmund 1976 The Drum Flag Malalasekera Commemoration Volume, Colombo" Unquote.

[KuKulzA28]

WOW... thanks guys... this is awesome! :D

Let's unshroud this mystery!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

WOW... thanks guys... this is awesome! :D

Let's unshroud this mystery!


Salaams KuKulzA28 ~Ok Lets go ! ...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Pictures Below~

1. Showing an original Sri Lankan (Karava Kingdom style flag with lion style)
i.e. Nothing like the later European heraldic lion "adopted" onto the National Flag.
2. Another style of Macara (I have an actual Macara from Tibet somewhere???...later.)
3. The Sri Lankan form of Macara.
4. A water spout architectural fantasy with Macara decoration on one of the ancient shrine roofs.
5. Illustration of a Macara spewing another demon beasty of human form from its mouth and often seen on the knuckle guard and guard of the Kastane.
6. The hilt showing the Macara and additional spewed beasty.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ok Lets go ! ...


Salaams All ! More Pictures~
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

1. The delightful Popham Armour. I have top say that having studied about 300 pictures of portrait and armour this is the only one I have seen with a Kastane. Initially I thought that the sword may have simply been an artists "atelier prop" but this logically cannot be the case. The armour itself is extremely expensive and not the run of the mill stuff... This was Pophams personal armour thus it follows that this was his personal side arm... not perhaps his main armament as there is a firearm forward of that and he may logically have had a long sword...This case marks this particular weapon as a defensive weapon or more likely his court sword(or both)?

2. Close up of the Popham Kastane.

3. I think this is the Russian Job. A specially commissioned decorative court sword made in Russia in the style of the Kastane bejewelled on Hilt and Scabbard.

4. Various sized blades. The question as to how long was the blade and if this in fact was a sword, a court sword or a dagger or all three remains? It may have been neither! as an accoutrement only... and not intended as a weapon...?

5. Axe weapons . The Macara decorated many things... Monumental Architectural Archways, water spouts, weapons ... here it is on an Axe weapon.India / Malaya.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=Jim McDougall]
This provides a presumed early period for the zoomorphic hilt and quillon system on these swords as the example in Japan is from the Hasekura Tsunenaga embassy sent by Date Masamune 1613 return to Sendai, Japan in 1620.

This example is believed to have been obtained in Spain from Philip III and presented to Hasekura in reciprocation for Japanese weapons gifted, as it was unlawful to give Spanish weapons so this was in lieu. It is unclear how the kastane reached Spain, but these were clearly stately weapons which were also found with English merchants (Alexander Popham).
from : "The Kastane and the Keris and Thier Arrival in Japan, 1620"
Sasaki Kazuhiro, Royal Armouries Yearbook, Vol.3, 1998

Also discussed in "A Fundamental Study on Hasekuras keris and Kastane"
Bulletin of Sendai City Museum, Japan

Salaams Jim and All, Just checking back through the detail on the Japanese delegation to Spain . It appears that the Kastane was transferred by Franciscan monks from the Malabar Coast of India someone having obtained it from Sri Lanka and that it was given as you say as a delegation gift with the hope that Spain could enjoy trade relations with Japan and vice versa. It was placed in the Sendai Museum, Japan.

The Popham is very interesting and I believe their are Kastane exhibits in The Leeds Museum, UK... where the portrait is displayed.

I find it startling that the Kastane was forbidden to be worn in the Kandyan Kingdoms; Even the highest Adigars could only wear a short knife as part of their ceremonial dress.

Looking through Forum Library you will discover brass copied hilts probably European and some original form Sri Lankan exhibits on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6826&highlight=KASTANE

A Dutch East Indies Co. marked blade is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12604&highlight=KASTANE

I believe that a number of things happened to the Kastane during the 3 nations occupation and we may need to look at these and in parallel with your questions some of which I have already remarked upon. Here are my questions~

1. Is the Kastane a Sri Lankan or Portuguese weapon?
2. Was it in fact a weapon, (a sword, a dagger or a court sword? or all of these)?
3. Why has it been drawn with a multitude of different sized blades and what is the significance of the VOC and other blade markings? Are there actually any EIC marked blades?
4. Is it related to the Nimcha of Europe or Zanzibar? Were the Moors of Sri Lanka responsible for bringing this migrating form?
5. What are Belly Dancing Kastane Swords and how did they develop, are they real and why are the hilts reversed?

Here I appeal for any lookers on... who have yet to join the Forum to come in from the cold and for current members ~ please enter the discussion. As usual we find ourselves at the forefront of an important topic ...largely working without a safety net ! All comments are warmly welcome... as are any photographs.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ PLEASE SEE http://www.michaelbackmanltd.com/1407.html Michael Backman antiques shows photos of a sold KASTANE of exceptional quality.. but wrongly attributed as a lion head..Its a Makara !! Otherwise the description is accurate... and well produced by Michael as usual.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH__TFpU2SA for a very nice Kastane which I believe is now in a Sri Lankan Museum.

I should like to address the Makara situation since dating its decorative style may point toward a start date of the Kastane. I will show that the Makara is a revered, mystical creature that is ingrained in Buddhist and Hindu ritual beliefs. The question of the other beasts (Nagas ~ snake like serpent Gods and a human / crocodile form) emanating apparently from the mouth of the Makara on the Kastane Hilt is also described here.


Without putting too fine a point on this " The fact the Hindu structure alone stretches back about 4,000 years, therefore, you may agree, puts some tension on the Kastane being 15th or 16th Century Portuguese, though, it may yet be so.

Some of the descriptions below are shown in pictures I have posted previously...see above posts.

The Makara.

Typically Makara are displayed disgorging other beasts (usually Nagas ~ snake like serpents) e.g. On corner of a lintel on one of the towers surrounding the central pyramid at Bakong, Roluos, Cambodia. They also appear on the Kastane Hilt.

Its symbolic representation in the form of a Makara head at the corner of temple roofs is as water element which also functions as a "rainwater spout or gargoyle". It is also seen as water spouts at the source of springs. The artistic carving in stone is in the form of identical pair of Makaras flanked by two nagas (Snake Gods) along with a crown of Garuda, which is called the Kirthimukha face. Therefor the two are commonly seen together and in ancient settings.

Such depictions are also seen at the entrance of wooden doorways as the top arch and also as a Torana (Entrance)behind Buddha’s images.

The Newa art of Nepal uses this depiction extensively. In Newar architecture, its depiction is; "as guardian of gateways, the Makara image appears on the curved prongs of the vast crossed-vajra that encompasses the four gateways of the two-dimensional mandala. Of the three dimensional-mandala this crossed-vajra supports the whole structure of the mandala palace symbolizing the immovable stability of the vajra-ground on which it stands."

Makaras are also a characteristic motif of the religious Khmer architecture of the Angkor region of Cambodia which was the capital of the Khmer Empire.

They are usually part of the decorative carving on a lintel, tympanum, or wall. Makaras are usually depicted with other (various and miscellaneous) symbolic animals, such as a lion, naga or serpent, emerging from its gaping open mouth.

Makara are a central design motif in the beautiful lintels of the Roluos group of temples: Preah Ko, Bakong, and Lolei. At Banteay Srei, carvings of Makaras disgorging other monsters were installed on many of the buildings' corners.

Occasionally I see human form similar to the carving on the bows of sailing ships (on the knuckle guard of the Kastane) though this may be coincidental but I have yet to crack the reason for this I will do in a minute !!..It could be that or another beast style in the human form? Anyway the Makara appears to spew out these Naga mini beasts and others in several depictions... and as seen on pictures at my above posts.

Makara (Sanskrit: मकर) is a sea-creature in Hindu mythology. It is generally depicted as half terrestrial animal (in the frontal part in animal forms of elephant or crocodile or stag, or deer) and in hind part as aquatic animal, in the tail part, as a fish tail or also as seal. Sometimes, even a peacock tail is depicted.

It is the Vahana (vehicle) of the Ganga - the goddess of river Ganges (Ganga) and the sea god Varuna. It is also the insignia of the love god Kamadeva. Kamadeva is also known as Makaradhvaja (on whose flag a Makara is depicted).

The Makara is the astrological sign of Capricorn, one of the twelve symbols of the Zodiac.(absorbed into Hindu/Buddhist doctrines from the Ancient Greek Zodiac and in the case of Capricorn modified with their own version.. "The Makara".) It is often portrayed protecting entryways to Hindu and Buddhist temples.

It is symbolized in ornaments are also in popular use as wedding gifts for bridal decoration. The Hindu Preserver-god Vishnu is also shown wearing Makara-shaped earrings called Makarakundalas. The Sun God Surya and the Mother Goddess Chandi are also sometimes described as being adorned with Makarakundalas.


There is a Row of Makara in base of Chennakesava Temple at Belur, Karnataka

In Hindu iconography, Makara is represented as the Vahana (‘vehicle’) of Ganga, the river goddess. A row of Makara may run along the wall of a Hindu temple, or form the hand rail of a staircase.

The leading Hindu temple architect and builder Ganapati Sthapati describes Makara as a mythical animal with the body of a fish, trunk of an elephant, feet of a lion, eyes of a monkey, ears of a pig, and the tail of a peacock.

A more succinct explanation is provided: "An ancient mythological symbol, the hybrid creature is formed from a number of animals such that collectively possess the nature of a crocodile. It has the lower jaw of a crocodile, the snout or trunk of an elephant, the tusks and ears of a wild boar, the darting eyes of a monkey, the scales and the flexible body of a fish, and the swirling tailing feathers of a peacock."

Traditionally, a Makara is considered to be an aquatic mythical creature. Makara has been depicted typically as half animal half fish. Some traditional accounts identify it with a crocodile, specifically Gharial because of its long extended snout. It is depicted with the forequarters of an elephant and the hindquarters as a fish tail. Crocodile was also a form which was used in the earlier days which was shown with human body.

So could this be one of the beasts in human form seen occasionally spewed onto the knuckle guard of the Kastana ? see picture above. The other beasts emanating from its open jaws being miniature Makara and Nagas.

A Row of Makara decorate the base of Chennakesava Temple at Belur, Karnataka. In many temples, the depiction is in the form of half fish or seal with head of an elephant. It is also shown with head and jaws resembling a crocodile, an elephant trunk with scales of fish and a peacock tail. Other accounts identify it with Gangetic Dolphin having striking resemblances with the latter, now found mainly in Vikramshila Gangetic Dolphin Sanctuary. Others portray it as a fish body with an elephant's head. The tradition identifies the makara with water, the source of all existence and fertility.

In the medieval era of South India, Makara was shown as a fifth stage of development, symbolized in the form of an elephant head and body with an elaborately foliated fish tail. Most myths maintain this symbolism of this stage in the evolution of life.

The Makara Thoranam above the door of the to Garbhagriha of Chennakesava Temple at Belur. Two makaras are shown on either end of the arch.
In a Hindu temple, the Makara often serves as the structural bookends of a thoranam or archway around a deity. The arch emerges up from the jaws of one Makara, rises to its peak, the Kirtimukha (the ‘Face of Glory'), and descends into the gaping jaws of another Makara. Varuna is also depicted as a white man sitting on the monster makara. As a marine monster, it is also shown with the head and legs of an antelope, and the body and tail of a fish.

A Makara made in iron shows the monster in the form of half stag and half fish.These elements are variously joined to form one of the most common recurring themes in Indian temple iconography. In Indian art, the Makara finds expression in the form of many motifs, and has been portrayed in different styles. Makara figures are placed on the entry points (Toranas) of several Buddhist monuments, including the stupa of Sanchi, a world heritage site. It is found guarding the entrances to royal thrones.

In the Tibetan Buddhist format it evolved from the Indian form of Makara. However, it is different in some ways such as, "display of lions fore paws, a horse’s mane, the gills and tendrils of a fish, and the horns of a deer or dragon. From its once simple feathered fishtail it now emerges as a complex spiraling pattern known as Makara-tail design (Sanskritmakaraketu)".

In Tibetan iconography, it is depicted in the Vajrayana weaponry of strength and tenacity which is the hall mark of crocodiles, since crocodiles hold on its hapless victim in nothing but death. The Vajrayan weapons which have crocodile symbolism are; axe, iron hook, curved knife, Vajra, ritual dragon in all of which the theme is "emergence from the open mouth of Makara".

In conclusion it can be seen that the Makara is the ancient Sri Lankan and neighboring Buddhist and Hindu regional form from which the design is taken in Sri Lanka for the Kastane Hilt. The question of the additional beasts are explained as serpent or snakelike gods usually spewing from the Makaras open jaws and the appearance of a strange human like figure which is clearly the early human crocodile form explained above. (in red for easy reference) and often seen on the Kastane Knuckleguard.

Looking ahead; the question emerges ~ Is the Makara a Sri Lankan design or was it taken from a Sri Lankan design by the Portuguese and put onto a Sword? I cannot imagine the latter. In my view the hilt is Sri Lankan and taken from their historical design. The Makara; Common all over their iconic religious format in architecture et al. I see no evidence of a Portuguese design... yet.
The existence of a Portuguese word for stick (Castao) is interesting but may only be coincidental. After all Kastane is closer to Kattara than Castao but I'm not examining the "whats is a word conundrum here"...Sri Lankan word strings are long and complicated enough as it is !!
In my next article I hope to shed some light on the situation in Sri Lanka before and during the period leading up to Portuguese partial takeover... looking at the splintered kingdoms and their mode of craftsmanship and how the Kastane may have developed.

Feel free to join in ....all.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Note to library ~ Pictures of two different styles of Kastane hilt both Makara.

[Jens Nordlunde]

This book is not about the Sri Lanka flag, but maybe it will bring some understanding to what happened in the earlier times between India and the countries in that area.
R.C.Majumdar: Suvarnadvipa. Hindu Colonies of the Far East, vol. I-II.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~

''Makara'' is a Sanskrit word which means "sea dragon" or "water-monster" and in Tibetan language it is called the "chu-srin", and also denotes a hybrid creature. It is the origin of the word for crocodile 'mugger' (मगर) in Hindi. The English word 'mugger' evolved meaning one who sneaks up and attacks another. The name is applied to the Mugger crocodile, the most common crocodile in India, and is descriptive of its aggressive feeding behavior.

It would seem that in all respects the Makara Hilt was ideal for incorporation onto the Kastane sword. It achieves honorific almost heraldic importance reflecting ancient religious artefacts, beliefs, architecture and recognition as a mythological fabulous creature.

For those reasons I find myself fighting the corner marked Home Grown Weapon. "The Kastane".

What I cannot see is a window through which this icon suddenly appears as a Portuguese, Dutch or British incorporation onto a Sri Lankan sword design. Portuguese swords were Portuguese, in design and inscription but the Kastane is not in that orchestra. Later the Dutch seem to have hijacked the blade and marked variants sporting the VOC marks are common but although books aspire to explain that EIC marks exist; I admit to seeing none as yet.

Anyway it is perhaps irrelevant since we are not that interested in the 3 invading ownership periods, rather, we need to get at the earlier known dealings i.e. between the Portuguese and Sri Lankan kingdoms of the Karava and Kandyans and in the build up before actual Portuguese dominance. Once the entire Island was taken over and ruled by the Dutch then the British the vagaries of outside dominance appear to shroud the Kastane story in thick impenetrable clouds.

The entire muddled load of brass copies appearing in Europe via Egypt (I assume Suez if indeed they were produced in Sri Lanka) in the 18th/ 19thC thence to Algeria and Morocco and beyond as Belly dancing swords needs to be ring fenced as irrelevant cheap castings. More than likely they were created in brass molding works throughout Europe also. It appears that they were refitted or made with the hilt reversed and the blades were never sharpened as to balance better on the performers head !

The weapon needs to be viewed in context with its use within the different kingdoms at the time the Portuguese assumed part control thus;

Part 1 will cover the Kandyan Kingdom 1593-1815.
Part 2 at my next post will deal with the Karava (The Sri Lankan fighting class) Kingdom.

The notes below are mostly quotations rearranged and paragraphed for easier handling and meant as Library records in the advent of further research etc... However, almost as a conclusion to the following extracts I consider that the Kandyan Kingdom was well placed through its established Royal Workshops to turn out all the requirements for the Kastane using locally employed artisans.

What needs to be understood about the Kandyan kingdom is that they were never taken over by the Portuguese. They fought many wars and skirmishes with each other but the Kandyan Dynasty never succumbed.

It would seem likely that the Kastane if it was made in the Kandyan Royal and other workshops would have enjoyed a degree of freedom ... to wear in public and as a secondary fighting dagger, short sword/and or for wearing at court.

Some further work is needed to view the restriction on such weapons being displayed during this dynasty's time span; The question "Could Kandyans wear swords during the time of Kandyan kings"? appears as "They could not". Even the highest Adigars could only wear a short knife as part of their ceremonial dress. Did the Kastane then adopt or "morph" into a short blade dagger?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


Notes; Quote "Arts and Crafts in the Kandyan Kingdom
by ANURDHA SENEVIRATNA
Monday, 30 March 2009
Speaking of arts and crafts during the Kandyan period which is considered the time between 1593-1815 with Kandy as the Capital we notice several aspects of art and crafts. From Architectural point of view Buddhist temples and deistic shrines built during this period occupies a prominent place. They include monuments such as Len Vihara, Tampita Vihara and Ambalamas.

The Buddhist physician, John Davy, writing an “Account of the Interior of Ceylon” (1821:104-105) described the royal palace of the last Kings of Kandy. He gives us a long list of official attached to the place. Among them were, the officers in charge of music, Dance and handicrafts. The Ran Avuda Maduwe Lekam Mahattaya was the Secretary of the Golden Arms. The Avudage Vannaku Nilame was the officer in charge of the Armoury. The Netum illangame Muhandiram Nilame was in charge of the Department of Dance. The Kavikara Maduwe Muhandiram was in charge of the court of Musicians. The Wahala Ilangame Muhandiram Nilame was in charge of the Royal Dance Ensemble. The Tamboru Purampattukara Muhandiram Nilame was in charge of the musicians who played the Tamboru and Trumpet.

The most skilled craftsmen in the country were selected from among several thousand workers and were raised to the rank of Royal craftsmen. They were attached to the royal palace itself. These masters craftsmen worked within four workshops called the Pattal Hatara: (1) Abharana Pattale (the workshops of the jewelers); (2) Rankadu Pattale (the work shop of the craftsmen engaged in making golden swords); (3) Sinhasana Pattale (the work shop of the craftsmen engaged in making the royal throne which included painters and ivory carvers) and (4) the Otunu Pattale (consisted of craftsmen engaged n making the Royal Crown). The chief of the work shop was called the Mulachari and he was in attendance at the Royal place.

Each Department or Workshop was in charge of a Kankanama or a supervisor, sometimes called a Muhandiram or Hangediya according to the type of craft. It was considered a high honour and prestige for an artist at the time to achieve this distinction. He not only enjoyed prestige but also royal privileges such as land grants and royal titles. The status of the artist was something that the kings had honoured from the remote past.

There were also 14 offices in charge of Baddas (Departments). They were organized on a caste basis to perform certain duties to the palace, such as supplying clothes, pots, mats and various other necessities. During the time of the Kandyan Kingdom, there were two such Departments, one for the Kandyan areas and the other for the Low Country areas.

Besides the functions attached to the royal palace these craftsmen were also organized under the district administration headed by a chieftain called the Dissave. The artists and the craftsmen received patronage from the king himself who represented the central administration; the Disave at the district level; the lay chiefs if the temples of gods (devale) known as the Basnayake Nilames and the Buddhist temple (viharas)headed by the Diawadana Nilame of the Temple of the Sacred Tooth Relic in the Kandy.

While government administration supported various categories of artists and craftsmen by means of land grants and other rewards for their services to the royal place, and to the chiefs of the districts, the viharas and devales also gave patronage to the artists and the craftsmen for the services performed for these places of worship included, the painters, sculptors, drummers, and dancers as well as other craftsmen such as the blacksmiths, the silversmiths and the goldsmiths.

The various artists and craftsmen organized into a caste system in the Kandyan period acquired certain flexibilities. These caste group were attached to state department called Kottal Badda (The Department of Artificers) who were dawn from Nawandanna caste (families of craftsmen). They inter – married with the South Indian craftsmen who had settled in the Kandyan Kingdom. They were divided into two groups known s Achari (the metal workers) and Waduwo (wood/stone workers). Still later, they were sub-divided into several castes such s Achari (black smith), Badallu (gold and silver smith) Waduwo (Carpenters), Galwaduwo (Stone cutters), Hitaru (Painters), and Lokurovo (brass founder), etc. The gold and silver smiths, the painters, ivory carves and brass workers were known as Gamladdo or Galladdo and were regarded s the highest rank. As the name suggests they ere people who enjoyed royal lands granted to them.

In return these craftsmen supplied various items such as Chunm boxes, Arecanut cutters, Bill-hooks, and Coconut scrapers, to the Rajakeeya Gabadawa (the Royal Stores).

There is ample evidence available as to show these artists and the craftsmen were looked after by these organizations. This information is found in Sannas (copper plate grants) given by the king himself and on ola leave (tudapat, sittu and panivida panata) given by the district chiefs. The Medawala copper plate grant given by King Kirti Sri Rajasinha of Kandy (1755 A.D.) records the benefit received by the Buddhist Vihara at Madawela. This pious king, who heard of the negligence of the Viharaya, had rebuilt an image house decorated with murals, statues, and exquisitely rich wood carvings. The copper plate (Ez.Vol.V.1965:466-486) explains how this was carried out and also the manner in which the artists and craftsmen were rewarded.
“When after the completion of the wood work of the two storeyed seven cubit image house, artist were summoned for the work of planting and the work on the image commenced, the King heard of the ceremony and made a grant of a thousand coins from the Royal Coffers, and from the royal Offices and Commandants, that the services should be rendered without delay and gave without any shortcoming all gifts such as rice and beetle to the master craftsmen.”

“When it came to the ceremony of the painting of the eyes, this was conducted, having given to the Master Craftsmen without shortfall two yalas and ten amunas of raw rice which was contributed for the –ceremony of Atamangala and the placing of pots of luck connected with the shrine, twenty three cows for the Gowasa (the cattle enclosure set apart for the use of shrine), one hundred and one pieces of cloth, one thousand one hundred and fifty fannamas, the neck ornament of Pandiran gold from Pandyan?) and Uttaran (pure gold) for adoring the five fold bodily members and all the rest. So was complete the eye ceremony that the master craftsmen may be pleased and so give thanks”.

It is also believed that at the time that the Gangarama Viharaya in Kandy was completed, Kirtisiri had an entire costume presented to the master artist and also tied a gold frontlet (Nalalpata) to the forehead of the artist. He is also known to have given Gannoruwe Davunda Abharana Achariya, a skillful goldsmith working in the King’s Place, land, money and an elephant Furthermore, when Marukona Ratna Abharana Wedakaraya appeared at the place gate before King Rajasingha the Second he was ordered to make jewellery prepared for Royal Dress. Having done so, he stated that he required Mottuwela Nilapanguwa Badavidilla in Pallesiyapatttuwa of Asiri Korale in the Matale District for his maintenance. In the year 1665 the King granted the request to this craftsmen.

According to popular legend, when Kirtisri Rajasingha was on his way to Hanguranketa, he spent a night in the house of a goldsmith, Ratnavalli Navaratna Abharana of Neelawela. If this was true, then it shows that the King never treated the artists as low. We have ample examples of ancient Sinhalese Kings who were themselves proficient in various arts such as literature, ivory carving, etc.

The Kandyan arts and crafts are not completely free from foreign influence. It is evident from historical sources that during the latter part of the Kandyan Kingdom of the 18th century, various arts and craftsmen were invited to the Kingdom from South India by the last generations of Kings in Kandy who were Nayakkars of South Indian origin.
“The Navandanna or artificers at any one time, speaking of the 18th and immediately preceding centuary at least consisted partly of indigenous craftsmen and partly of newly settled Tamil artificers, coming from South India to work for the King, who showed them favour and made the grants of land. Hence, it is that not only do we find the close correspondence in detail and technique between South Indian (Tamil) and Sinhalese work, but also that the Artificer families have often Hindu names (such as Rajesvera, Devasurendra) they preserve traces of Siva workship and of other Hindu ceremonies (Netra Mangallaya) etc. The technical works are obviously a part of the Indian Silpasastra, some of the technical terms are corruptions of Tamil words, they make use of the Hindu Mntrams. They are occasionally referred to as Kammalar, and so forth.
(Ananda Coomarasamy, Medieval Sinhalese art.)
As far as the tradition of dancing in the Kandyan hills is concerned, it is clear that it has derived inspiration from the village ritual known as Kohomba Kankariya. According, to the popular beliefs prevalent among these traditional dancers,’ the vannamas of the present day tradition of Kandyan dance were introduced by the famous Silpadipati Ganitalankara of Kerala. Sinhalese arts and crafts flourished throughout a magnificent period of several centuries and absorbed this particular foreign influence. When the country was ruled by these South Indian Nayakkara rulers, local artists lives and worked together harmoniously with South Indian artists and crafts and craftsmen which resulted in new tradition of arts and crafts which is Kandyan.

The social organization of the Kandyan Kingdom, then consisted of various social groups practicing various trades under a Badda (in the strict sense it means a caste). Thus a new caste system emerged solely’ on The basis of occupation, which is only partially true of the Indian system. This generation of artists, who worked within this system of occupational divisions, continued to live in Kandy and its suburbs even after the down fall of the Kandyan Kingdom in 1815. The following list will show the continuation of these divisions of labour and the traditional villages to which various craftsmen are attached, even to this day:

Craft Village
Brass work and casting Madawla, Kirivavula,Embekke
Silver and brass Danture,Ullandupitiya,Arattana
Nilawela,Pilawala,Medawela
Gold and Silver Embekke and Nilawela
Lacquor and wood work Gunnepana,Embekke and Hapuvida
Cloth Talagune
Mat weaving Henawela
Drum making Kuragala, Kuragandeniya
Crystal work Kirivavula
Dancing and drumming Tittapajjala,Malagammana,Ihalawela,Molagoda,
Hewaheta,Yakawela,Kondadeniya,Nittawela,
Amunugama
Decorative art Kulugammana
Painting Nilagama
Ivory Kundasale, Mawanella.

Though the castebased social organizations remained intact, the artists and the craftsmen, as well as their arts and crafts suffered immensely after the downfall of the Kandyan Kingdom as no support and patronage was provided. In 1882, for the first time, the artist and the craftsmen in the Kandyan Provinces were brought together by the British Government of Kandy represented by Sir Frederick Dikson, who organized the Kandyan Arts Association, which has continued to this date.

With a magnificent new building complex constructed for the century this Association located in Kandy, near the Temple of the Sacred Tooth Relic, continues to serve the artists and the customers alike maintaining its great traditions. The National Crafts council of Sri Lanka, the Department of Small Industries and government organizations such as Laksala have joined hands in looking after the arts and crafts of the old Kandyan Kingdom." UNQUOTE

[Gavin Nugent]

An image of the Kastane in native context with a baldric suspension a video of an outstanding example.....subtitled for those who don't understand "American" :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH__TFpU2SA

Gav

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~

The Kandyan Dynasty which was never brought to heel by the invaders neither Portuguese nor Dutch but which eventually fell to British control in 1805. There were treaties cleverly enacted by the Kandyan rulers prior to that but no takeover and no control "per se". The Kanyan kingdom comprised most of the eastern three quarters of the entire country.

In parallel the Karava dynasty, the fighting caste…was split in half; allegiance being half for and half against the Portuguese invaders.

A 19th century representation of the Karava Makara Flag. The image of the mythical creature Makara is extensively used in ancient Sri Lankan royal architecture. This flag is one of the main flags still used by the Karavas at their ceremonies. The Mukkara Hatana, an ola leaf manuscript now in the British Museum states that King Parakramabahu IV granted it to the Karavas.
Parakrama Bahu IV , came to the throne in the Saka year 1247 or A.D. 1325/6. More than 3 centuries before Portuguese involvement.

Karava (pronounced Karaava) also Karawa, Karawe, Karave, Kaurava, Kshatriya, Khatriya, Kuru, Kuru Kula, Kurukulam, Kurukulum, Kurukulather or Kurukulathar is the traditional military (warrior / Kshatriya / royal ) race, of Sri Lanka. The Karavas were one of the interconnected ruling dynasties of the Indian region. Royal succession in Sri Lanka passed on to Karava rulers during the Polonnaruwa period. Karava king Gajabahu was one of the greatest, and the Kandy Perehera and other annual pageants of Sri Lanka that end with the water cutting ceremony were initially pageants in honour of king Gajabahu's victories . The many kingdoms of Sri Lanka were thereafter ruled by Karava Kings and sub-kings until the last three kingdoms passed over from Karava royal families to Europeans; Kotte and Jaffna in the 16th century to the Portuguese and Kandy in the 19th century to the British (see Timeline of Kings)

True to their royal ancestry, the Karavas are the only Sri Lankan community to bear ancestral family names that signify royal ancestry, possess an array of ancient flags and use royal insignia at family ceremonies.

The fortunes of the Karava community has seen ups and downs over the centuries dependent on the fortunes of the leading Karava royal families and their victories, defeats and alliances with South Indian royal dynasties. European colonisation ended all native dynasties and rulers of the region and was therefore disastrous for the Karavas as well as the Kshatriya Rajputs of India. (seeTimeline of the Karava I) The post-independence period too has been particularly disastrous for the Karavas. Whatever lost wealth and power the Karavas had regained during the British period was taken away from the Karavas by Govigama dominated post-independence governments of Sri Lanka and Sri Lanka government sponsored propaganda during the 1900s has attempted to falsely portray the Karawas as the "Fisherfolk Caste" of Sri Lanka!!

As the Karavas were the traditional martial race of Sri Lanka it is not surprising to find one of their symbols, the Makara, used as ornamentation on traditional swords. Such swords are unique to Sri Lanka and not found either in India or the Malay peninsular. Compare the similarity of the Makara on the water spout with the decorative hilts on the Kastane on my post above.

I believe that whilst this does not herald "game set and match" it goes some way to supporting my theory that the Kastane is a Sri Lankan invention moreover that it may have originated in the Karava dynasty " The Fighting Caste".

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Thanks Jim.
While it is difficult to add any good clarifications to most of your points. I am also interested in the motifs and decorations of the weapons. There seem to be three primary animal forms used on sword hilts, The Lion which is a national symbol of the Sinhalese (Sinha =Lion) and two forms of mythical beasts The Makara or the equivalent of a “Dragon” and the Serapendiya which is a Raptorial bird.

The differences in depiction of the beasts is not always straight forward, The Lion head which in the late medieval tend to be stylized to different degrees can be defined by the clear depiction of a lions mane around the neck arranged usually as three rows of flowing curved motifs, The Lion figures often have the tongue extended as well. The Makara has its origins in a Water beast with combined elements from different animals as the trunk of an elephant, tusks of a boar etc. It is usually depicted with a up curved proboscis like devise at the tip of the snout and the tusk depicted as a large rounded knoblike tooth as is often used to depict the canine tooth of the Lion heads in some figures, The Serapendiya is often portrayed with a toothed down curved beak with similarly shaped pointed sharp teeth; lacking the enlarged canine tooth at the front end of jaw. This is a very basic guide which may not help define all depictions as the individual craftsmen seem to have introduced variations. The Pommel is (almost) always a Lion-head though few with serapendiya heads are sometimes also found. I have never seen a Makara head on the pommel of a kasthana Sword. The quilons and guards carry Makara and Serapendiya heads interchangeably. Some swords also carry representation of deities on sword hilts in addition to the Animal forms.

Being a Sinhalese from Sri Lanka - I think Ibrahiim has been reading too much of the Alternate “Fake” history propagated by the nefarious elements aligned mostly to the Separatist movements like the recently crushed LTTE in Sri Lanka. There is a Mainstream history in the country that also has one of the longest documented histories in Asia; substantiated with vast amounts of solid archaeological work. I do not know why Ibrahim is prejudicial against the Sinhales. If one is to accept most of what Ibrahiim have copied in as evidence; we may have to burn libraries of good books that say otherwise. This issue is not relevant here and due to the political / sensitive nature of it I shall not engage in any further comments in that regard. But would ask the readers to look at the so called “myths” and all the derogatory statements on the Sinhala race by Ibrahim objectively, much has been written on these issues in the relevant fora and it can be researched adequately there.

To keep it relevant to the topic the Sinha (Lion) motif has been well Identified with the Sinhala (People) both in motifs as well as within literary sources.

I have seen a very curious sword in a private collection that is transient between the predominant long straight double edged swords popular in the Polonnaruwa Kingdom 1017-1235 AD and the Kasthana in that it shows the early evolution of quilons with terminal primitive animal head devises while still carrying the straight blade and hilt elements from the Polonnaruwa swords. It is believed that this sword may belong to the period before the Kotte/Seethawaka Kingdoms or the time of the Portuguese wars. so a trend towards adoption of zoomorphic ornamentation may have existed prior to the arrival of the Portuguese. There is a proper Kastana sword in the Colombo Museum that is believed to be of King Buwanekabahu I of Yapahuwa Kingdom which predates the arrival of Europeans on the Island by at least a century. (Though I am not convinced of the authenticity of this piece)
The kasthana swords come in different sizes and classes of ornaments, some of the larger more impressive swords seem to have seen significant action; most of them would carry wooden or horn hilts and brass guards and quillons and some are rather simple swords that still carry the components of the Kasthana. The Golden and Silver swords with precious stones would more likely be side arms of Chieftains or in the latter centuries purely rank or gift swords. The practice of presenting swords as emblems of authority was prevalent. The short length of the blade may not in itself disqualify any sword as a fighting sword as it seem to have yielded to local fighting styles.

I shall include a sword Identified as having belonged to Kandyan Chieftain “Leuke” Disawa who was a prominent warrior in the wars against the British in the 18-19 centuries. It is a rather large and heavy Kasthana with intricate Silver workings, It is not clear when this sword was manufactured as his father was also known to be a leading figure in the Dutch wars.
Hope this was helpful

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Prasanna :-).
Thank you for clarifying this subject.
I am wondering why the Makara is so important, and not the Yali?
As the Makara was more used in the northern parts of Indian, and the Yali was used more in the Deccan area.
I agree that the lion, and a number of other animals are important (royal), and therefore used on temple decorations, paintings and weapons.
Regards
Jens :-)

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

The Yarl is not part of the Sinhala Mythical beasts, though they do on occasion exist in Hindu Kovils it has not spread further than that in Sri Lankan Culture.

The Lion represents the race of Sinhalese, While Makara in most contexts is associated with rejuvenation and re-generation, It is an Auspicious symbol - A good luck charm if you will. Not too sure of the Serapendiya- a commonly figured beast with a rather vague history here.

The Images I posted earlier didn't upload properly so I am re- attaching them here. The First two are of the Kasthana of Leuke Disawa. While the Third is one of my paintings of a Sinhala warrior- The figure is holding the transitional sword between the older sword types and the emergence of Animal head motifs that I mentioned in my earlier post.

[Jim McDougall]

Prasanna, thank you so very much for your thoughtful, informative and wonderfully written reply. Also, thank you for sharing your absolutely superb artwork!!! That is a remarkable painting, and perfectly illustrates the prototype swords from which the kastane must have developed. There are of course it seems resemblances to the ancient forms in use on the subcontinent, and it is most important to see the use of zoomorphic figures on the quillon ends.

I want to thank you as well for your graceful response regarding the material which Ibrahiim added which was largely from some online detail as he had noted. I think that often revisionist or reassessments of historical and traditionally held topics are often politically charged, and may often be perceived differently by individuals depending on thier relationships to matters at hand. In this case, much of the material was presented to look into various angles in the decorative theme of the kastane beyond the commonly held general views typically recounted in most general references.
I do not believe any prejudicial stances were meant, but very much agree with your suggestion in not pursuing politically sensitive aspects in this course, but remaining objective in examining facts at hand. I think these fascinating swords deserve to be studied much more thoroughly, and clearly you have a well studied comprehension of them, as reflected in your comments and obviously in the artwork you have well researched.

I do hope we can continue this look into the development of the kastane as intended, as I am delighted to finally pass the 'mystery' barrier altogether too often experienced in so many ethnographic weapon forms.

All very best regards,
Jim

[VANDOO]

IT IS A GOOD THING TO PRESENT ALL VIEWS AND INFORMATION AS WELL AS PERHAPS A BIT OF CONJECTURE WHEN DELVING INTO WHAT IS LARGELY UNKNOWN TERRITORY. I DON'T BELIEVE OUR MEMBERS ARE CONCERNED WITH POLITICAL VIEWS BUT JUST SHAREING WHAT REFRENCES AND INFORMATION THEY MAY HAVE. SO OFFENSE SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN IF THE REFRENCES OR VIEWS POSTED DO NOT AGREE WITH ONES OWN. IT DOES GIVE THE OPORTUNITY FOR ALL OTHER VIEWS TO BE EXPRESSED AS WELL.
THE MORE INFORMATION PRESENTED THE MORE IT ENRICHES THE DISCUSSION AND PERHAPS THERE IS SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO CAN USE THE INFORMATION TO CUT THRU ALL THE CONFUSION AND BRING IT TOGETHER IN A COHEISIVE REFRENCE PERHAPS BETTER THAN ALL ITS PARTS. AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT WE ALL HOPE FOR. :D
I HAVE READ A BIT OF THE HISTORY OF CEYLON/SIRI LANKA AND FOUND IT VERY INTERESTING. HOW MUCH WAS WRITTEN BY FORIGNERS? PROBABLY MOST OF IT AS IT WAS ALL IN ENGLISH. FORIGENERS TO ANY CULTURE OFTEN FOCUS ON THE WILDEST ASPECTS OF A CULTURE IN THEIR REPORTS. NUMBER ONE DURING THE DAYS OF COLONIAL CONQUEST WAS OF COURSE TREASURE. SECOND THE EXOTIC NATURE OF THE RULING CLASSES LIFESTYLE. THEN PRACTICES THEY CONSIDERED BARBARIC SO THEY COULD ESTABLISH THEIR MORAL SUPERIORITY OVER THE CONQURED THUS GIVING THEM AN EXCUSE TO DO AS THEY WISHED GOOD OR BAD.
THIS WAS TYPICAL AND THEY USUALLY DID NOT WORRY IF THEY TRULY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS GOING ON OR NOT. THEY JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT INTERESTING AND DIDN'T CARE ABOUT ACCURACY OR TRUTH PERHAPS AN OUTRIGHT LIE HERE AND THERE TO MAKE A BETTER STORY. UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS HUMAN NATURE AND APPLYS TO ALL MANKIND, GREED AND POWER ARE A UNIVERSAL FLAW IN OUR KIND.
DANGER CONJECTURE !! :) I SUSPECT THE MAKARA IS FROM SOME ANCIENT LEGEND OF CREATION PERHAPS NOW LOST. MOST IF NOT ALL PRIMATIVE SOCIETYS HAVE THEM THE HAWAIIANS HAVE MAUI HOOKING THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA AND PULLING UP THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS AS WELL AS OTHER GREAT FEATS. THE AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINALS HAVE THEIR CREATION BELIEFS SUCH AS THE RAINBOW SERPENT. THE MAKARA SPEWING FORTH OTHER IMPORTANT CREATURES FROM ITS MOUTH SEEMS LIKE ONE OF THE ANCIENT BELIEFS TO ME. AS TO THE LION? DID IT EVER LIVE IN THE AREA? TIGERS SEEM MORE LIKELY. BUT SINGAPORE HAS THE SYMBOL OF A FISH WITH A LIONS HEAD IS IT A OLD ONE OR SOMETHING MOSTLY FORIGN INFLUENCE.
I HOPE YOU ALL KEEP POSTING AS THIS PROMISES TO BE A GOOD SOURCE OF REFRENCE FOR THESE UNUSUAL AND RARE ITEMS AND SEEING THE PICTURES OF THE WONDERFUL WORKMANSHIP IS A REAL TREAT. :D

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Yarl is not part of the Sinhala Mythical beasts, though they do on occasion exist in Hindu Kovils it has not spread further than that in Sri Lankan Culture.

The Lion represents the race of Sinhalese, While Makara in most contexts is associated with rejuvenation and re-generation, It is an Auspicious symbol - A good luck charm if you will. Not too sure of the Serapendiya- a commonly figured beast with a rather vague history here.

The Images I posted earlier didn't upload properly so I am re- attaching them here. The First two are of the Kasthana of Leuke Disawa. While the Third is one of my paintings of a Sinhala warrior- The figure is holding the transitional sword between the older sword types and the emergence of Animal head motifs that I mentioned in my earlier post.


Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody ~ Thank you for posting the superb pictures. Firstly I have absolutely no allegiances with any political movement in your country and have tried to place a factual library reference showing the clouded issue and notwithstanding the internal politics magnified through 3 European dynasties involvement which has affected this swords perception.

Kastane. There has been the perception (false in my view ) that the sword was introduced inspired invented by the first invaders... Your explanation of the pre Portuguese Kastane indicates as does my historical detail that this is simply not the case and that the weapon in a Sri Lankan thoroughbred.

I think you may agree that the weapon has been hijacked through the ages firstly as a court weapon/sidearm on the Popham Armour and secondly the early Kastane in the Japanese Museum.. Whilst fascinating, these two artefacts have distorted the issue somewhat. Perhaps the Hispanic link of the Kastane being presented by Spain to Japan somehow contrived to suggest a Portuguese origin and since they were in Sri Lanka in the 1600s...? Further warp has been caused by the appearance of the belly dancers cheap prop in about the mid to late 19th C which had a reversed brass hilt on a contrived blunt scimitar like blade. That irony (an apparently Arab style) perhaps threw peoples idea of origin into being originally an Arabian sword.

As if that were not enough we have an apparent hybridisation of short and long blades corrupted by foreign blade marks in the form of VOC Dutch East Indies and possibly though not confirmed EIC marks.

Lion versus Makara. I am convinced that the hilt is not a Lion head. This is not a politically charged question since you simply need to view the water spout (see #14 on this thread)and to see the other deities portrayed pouring from the Makaras mouth. My post shows 6 photographs and the final one shows the hilt. The design ?.. Makara not Lion.

Sinha...of course means Lion but that is not to say that this is a lion head hilt because of the name of your people. Moreover it is Makara head because it is reflected by many of your architectural Temple Archways, waterspouts, wonderful and ancient history, religious artifacts, deities, and battle flags. The lion, particularly the British Lion, in all its heraldic splendor isn't. (see # 14.)

Naturally and whilst this may be a sensitive issue (the Kastane appears on your National Flag held by the National Lion and the Sword itself is a National Motif) I have to point out the mirroring of the Makara in the Kastane Hilt.

Having made that point I still would like to get to the Kastane origins and feel that with your help we can achieve this. This is a great thread. Excellent detail and pictures ... Shukran.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

IT IS A GOOD THING TO PRESENT ALL VIEWS AND INFORMATION AS WELL AS PERHAPS A BIT OF CONJECTURE WHEN DELVING INTO WHAT IS LARGELY UNKNOWN TERRITORY. I DON'T BELIEVE OUR MEMBERS ARE CONCERNED WITH POLITICAL VIEWS BUT JUST SHAREING WHAT REFRENCES AND INFORMATION THEY MAY HAVE. SO OFFENSE SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN IF THE REFRENCES OR VIEWS POSTED DO NOT AGREE WITH ONES OWN. IT DOES GIVE THE OPORTUNITY FOR ALL OTHER VIEWS TO BE EXPRESSED AS WELL.
THE MORE INFORMATION PRESENTED THE MORE IT ENRICHES THE DISCUSSION AND PERHAPS THERE IS SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO CAN USE THE INFORMATION TO CUT THRU ALL THE CONFUSION AND BRING IT TOGETHER IN A COHEISIVE REFRENCE PERHAPS BETTER THAN ALL ITS PARTS. AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT WE ALL HOPE FOR. :D
I HAVE READ A BIT OF THE HISTORY OF CEYLON/SIRI LANKA AND FOUND IT VERY INTERESTING. HOW MUCH WAS WRITTEN BY FORIGNERS? PROBABLY MOST OF IT AS IT WAS ALL IN ENGLISH. FORIGENERS TO ANY CULTURE OFTEN FOCUS ON THE WILDEST ASPECTS OF A CULTURE IN THEIR REPORTS. NUMBER ONE DURING THE DAYS OF COLONIAL CONQUEST WAS OF COURSE TREASURE. SECOND THE EXOTIC NATURE OF THE RULING CLASSES LIFESTYLE. THEN PRACTICES THEY CONSIDERED BARBARIC SO THEY COULD ESTABLISH THEIR MORAL SUPERIORITY OVER THE CONQURED THUS GIVING THEM AN EXCUSE TO DO AS THEY WISHED GOOD OR BAD.
THIS WAS TYPICAL AND THEY USUALLY DID NOT WORRY IF THEY TRULY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS GOING ON OR NOT. THEY JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT INTERESTING AND DIDN'T CARE ABOUT ACCURACY OR TRUTH PERHAPS AN OUTRIGHT LIE HERE AND THERE TO MAKE A BETTER STORY. UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS HUMAN NATURE AND APPLYS TO ALL MANKIND, GREED AND POWER ARE A UNIVERSAL FLAW IN OUR KIND.
DANGER CONJECTURE !! :) I SUSPECT THE MAKARA IS FROM SOME ANCIENT LEGEND OF CREATION PERHAPS NOW LOST. MOST IF NOT ALL PRIMATIVE SOCIETYS HAVE THEM THE HAWAIIANS HAVE MAUI HOOKING THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA AND PULLING UP THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS AS WELL AS OTHER GREAT FEATS. THE AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINALS HAVE THEIR CREATION BELIEFS SUCH AS THE RAINBOW SERPENT. THE MAKARA SPEWING FORTH OTHER IMPORTANT CREATURES FROM ITS MOUTH SEEMS LIKE ONE OF THE ANCIENT BELIEFS TO ME. AS TO THE LION? DID IT EVER LIVE IN THE AREA? TIGERS SEEM MORE LIKELY. BUT SINGAPORE HAS THE SYMBOL OF A FISH WITH A LIONS HEAD IS IT A OLD ONE OR SOMETHING MOSTLY FORIGN INFLUENCE.
I HOPE YOU ALL KEEP POSTING AS THIS PROMISES TO BE A GOOD SOURCE OF REFRENCE FOR THESE UNUSUAL AND RARE ITEMS AND SEEING THE PICTURES OF THE WONDERFUL WORKMANSHIP IS A REAL TREAT. :D


Salaams Vandoo~ Well put. It is sometimes necessary to put seemingly political constructs into the mixture whilst trying to remain in balance... when it is obvious that these dealings have had a bearing on the issue. You are right of course. I think it is somewhat sensitive, however, since we are dealing with National respected emblems such as the Lion and the Kastane as national symbols (for whatever reasons) but I thought it needed to be recorded.
Where I want to focus is on the sword itself and I agree these pictures arriving on Forum are beginning to set the record straighter. I wish I was on the ground myself in Sri Lanka but now we have representation there I think the clouds blanketing the Kastane issue are lifting.
Salaams,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Prasanna, thank you so very much for your thoughtful, informative and wonderfully written reply. Also, thank you for sharing your absolutely superb artwork!!! That is a remarkable painting, and perfectly illustrates the prototype swords from which the kastane must have developed. There are of course it seems resemblances to the ancient forms in use on the subcontinent, and it is most important to see the use of zoomorphic figures on the quillon ends.

I want to thank you as well for your graceful response regarding the material which Ibrahiim added which was largely from some online detail as he had noted. I think that often revisionist or reassessments of historical and traditionally held topics are often politically charged, and may often be perceived differently by individuals depending on thier relationships to matters at hand. In this case, much of the material was presented to look into various angles in the decorative theme of the kastane beyond the commonly held general views typically recounted in most general references.
I do not believe any prejudicial stances were meant, but very much agree with your suggestion in not pursuing politically sensitive aspects in this course, but remaining objective in examining facts at hand. I think these fascinating swords deserve to be studied much more thoroughly, and clearly you have a well studied comprehension of them, as reflected in your comments and obviously in the artwork you have well researched.

I do hope we can continue this look into the development of the kastane as intended, as I am delighted to finally pass the 'mystery' barrier altogether too often experienced in so many ethnographic weapon forms.

All very best regards,
Jim


Salaams Jim~ I hope that none of my ramblings have in any way upset the apple cart and I agree with everything you have placed ... This can be a sensitive subject but I hope that now, as we have an excellent exponent of Ethnographic Arms actually there on the ground in Sri Lanka, this once shrouded issue can be uncovered. Excellent thread !!
I also hope that more people can come in from the touchline and get involved.

Regards,
Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Hi all,

Ibrahim, My issues with your earlier posts was due to you being too quick to adopt and back the alternate history propagated by the recently defeated separatist/ terrorist outfit here (Which is still a sore point here), It could have been different if you also give fare or adequate consideration on the Main stream history, Which I think was beginning to emerge on your later posts. As long as any arguments are not taken on a single concept based on limited sources and not jumping to accept them as true too fast it is not a issue to use them for the purpose in hand. I think you have become more objective in latter post while you have taken time to read more…

My contention with your view of the Kasthana hilt being a Makara comes from 1. the assessment of the portrayal of Makara and Lion figures in Sinhala ornamentation in a general context broader than the Kasthana. 2. There are references in the surviving “Angampora” traditions (which is the remnants of the indigenous martial arts of Sri Lanka with a clear history at least to the 16th century) which describe the hilt of a Kasthana as a Lion head. Your point about the makara being adopted as the hilt due to a link to the Karava cast is not valid as 1. The makara is not endemic to the Karava cast as well as they were not the leading warrior classes in the country though they were part of the whole. 2. The primary warrior schools were the “Maruwalliya” and “Sudaliya” (which included warriors from all main casts including the Govi-gama, Karawa and many others) at the time and they would be the main contenders to design influence if any.

Sinhala Heraldry in the period was well developed and the Lion was a primary emblem of the Sithawaka kingdom under the Rajasinghe I (Raja-Singhe = Royal Lion) who was undoubtedly the Greatest Warrior King in the Late-Post Medieval Sri Lanka, The use of Lion in heraldic devises is widespread in the period.

The adoption of up curved single edged blades in Sri Lanka is believed to have originated around the 16th Century. It is rather likely that the blade forms were influenced by the Moors as there were significant trade links with them and military allegiances as with that of the Samorin of Calicut, It is also believed that the indigenous and endemic Sinhala hand gun the “Bondikula” was also derived from the Moor Bunduq. This was a time of craft revival and people would take pains in to turning even everyday items in to minor works of art. The motifs though having some similarities with Indian and even south East Asian forms has distinct indigenous twists on many occasions. The Sinhala Makara is mostly portrayed spewing plant forms (kalpa Wruksha- Tree of eternity) out of its mouth instead of animal forms etc. Judging by the variety of weapons that have endemic sub groups to the regional weapons created by local craftsmen and my earlier indications I also tend to believe the origin of the Kasthana is Lankan.

Jens, Apologize for error in spelling- Yarl for Yali, As you rightfully pointed out about the presence of Makara over Yali - the Sinhalese stories of origin (Vijaya or Prince Simhala etc) point to a North Indian link which was further strengthened by several other embassies and import of North Indian Crafts and traditions during the time of Emperor Asoka of India etc. The regular wars with invading parties from the South Indian Chola Kingdoms strengthened the Sinhala Identification with the North Indian Aryan culture over the Southern Dravidian whose design elements begin to influence Local art only post to the 8th Century and relocation of the Kingdom to Polonnaruwa from Anuradhapura.

One additional but significant point that confirms the use of Kasthana in the Battlefield is in the Sinhala “Hatan-Kavya” literature of the period. these poetic narrations of wars including sometimes detail descriptions of each of the heroes in the battles and the weapons they used include many references to use of Kasthana in the field.

Regards

Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi all,

Ibrahim, My issues with your earlier posts was due to you being too quick to adopt and back the alternate history propagated by the recently defeated separatist/ terrorist outfit here (Which is still a sore point here), It could have been different if you also give fare or adequate consideration on the Main stream history, Which I think was beginning to emerge on your later posts. As long as any arguments are not taken on a single concept based on limited sources and not jumping to accept them as true too fast it is not a issue to use them for the purpose in hand. I think you have become more objective in latter post while you have taken time to read more…

My contention with your view of the Kasthana hilt being a Makara comes from 1. the assessment of the portrayal of Makara and Lion figures in Sinhala ornamentation in a general context broader than the Kasthana. 2. There are references in the surviving “Angampora” traditions (which is the remnants of the indigenous martial arts of Sri Lanka with a clear history at least to the 16th century) which describe the hilt of a Kasthana as a Lion head. Your point about the makara being adopted as the hilt due to a link to the Karava cast is not valid as 1. The makara is not endemic to the Karava cast as well as they were not the leading warrior classes in the country though they were part of the whole. 2. The primary warrior schools were the “Maruwalliya” and “Sudaliya” (which included warriors from all main casts including the Govi-gama, Karawa and many others) at the time and they would be the main contenders to design influence if any.

Sinhala Heraldry in the period was well developed and the Lion was a primary emblem of the Sithawaka kingdom under the Rajasinghe I (Raja-Singhe = Royal Lion) who was undoubtedly the Greatest Warrior King in the Late-Post Medieval Sri Lanka, The use of Lion in heraldic devises is widespread in the period.

The adoption of up curved single edged blades in Sri Lanka is believed to have originated around the 16th Century. It is rather likely that the blade forms were influenced by the Moors as there were significant trade links with them and military allegiances as with that of the Samorin of Calicut, It is also believed that the indigenous and endemic Sinhala hand gun the “Bondikula” was also derived from the Moor Bunduq. This was a time of craft revival and people would take pains in to turning even everyday items in to minor works of art. The motifs though having some similarities with Indian and even south East Asian forms has distinct indigenous twists on many occasions. The Sinhala Makara is mostly portrayed spewing plant forms (kalpa Wruksha- Tree of eternity) out of its mouth instead of animal forms etc. Judging by the variety of weapons that have endemic sub groups to the regional weapons created by local craftsmen and my earlier indications I also tend to believe the origin of the Kasthana is Lankan.

Jens, Apologize for error in spelling- Yarl for Yali, As you rightfully pointed out about the presence of Makara over Yali - the Sinhalese stories of origin (Vijaya or Prince Simhala etc) point to a North Indian link which was further strengthened by several other embassies and import of North Indian Crafts and traditions during the time of Emperor Asoka of India etc. The regular wars with invading parties from the South Indian Chola Kingdoms strengthened the Sinhala Identification with the North Indian Aryan culture over the Southern Dravidian whose design elements begin to influence Local art only post to the 8th Century and relocation of the Kingdom to Polonnaruwa from Anuradhapura.

One additional but significant point that confirms the use of Kasthana in the Battlefield is in the Sinhala “Hatan-Kavya” literature of the period. these poetic narrations of wars including sometimes detail descriptions of each of the heroes in the battles and the weapons they used include many references to use of Kasthana in the field.

Regards

Prasanna

Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody~ Thank you for your excellent and informative reply. Virtually no previous information existed previously on Kastane on Forum, therefor, I make no excuses for drumming up as much as I can get my hands on so that an informed opinion can perhaps be drawn at some point about this great subject. I repeat that no offence was intended with reference to your National Emblems however it is clearly an interesting situation and I believe comparisons to the Makara are well founded historically pointing to that as the inspiration to the Kastane hilt. Makara are seen in many other settings with other deities coming from their mouths; Surely the Kastane hilt illustrates this ?

The Lion is a contentious issue and I would prefer to leave it on record and for information whilst other details can be pieced together ...

It is perfectly normal and to be expected that where rivalry exists one particular tribe will be favoured by its followers to the detriment of the others. Whilst there may be an argument for this occurring in Sri Lankan society I also step aside, but as before, include the information.

Your information about short and long blades is very interesting. The Moors arrived over a long period some in the 1st century and others in the 8th and the 14th, I understand. Looking at the picture of your Sri Lankan man wearing the Kastane it is obvious that the weapon could be a ships item and could have been a Moorish sword. I think however that in observing the Kandyan Royal Workshops system the weapon is ideally placed to have been made there. The different workshops included~

1. Master Swordmakers.
2. Gold and Silver artesans.
3. Specialist Carvers of horn and bone (Rhino)
4. Eyemakeup specialists. Mentioned because great emphasis was aplied to this as an art form and the treatment of the eyes of the Kastane hilt are notable...likely to have attracted the attention of another group of specialists~
5. Specialists in semi precious and precious stones.
6. Specialist metalworkers ... For the Scabbard.

Of particular interest is the early Kastane mentioned by you ... Can we see a picture of that please. The other very important detail is your reference to poetry which may be an extremely important source of fact concerning the Kastane. (or Kasthane)

It is my opinion that the Kastane is a purebred Sri Lankan sword and must have been designed before 1620 and more than likely previous to the appearance in the Indian Ocean the Europeans.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[tribalarms]

An image of the Kastane in native context with a baldric suspension a video of an outstanding example.....subtitled for those who don't understand "American" :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH__TFpU2SA

Gav

It appears as the fine example in the video was offered on Ebay only weeks ago.

As it did not sell, I'm not sure if it would be correct to post a link to the Ebay auction or include images as it might be relisted?

[VANDOO]

AS I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT ALL THIS I MAY ASK A SILLY QUESTION. PERHAPS THE LION MENTIONED IS ACTUALLY THE BARONG WHICH IS A LION LIKE BEING REPRESENTING GOOD AGAINST RAGDA THE EVIL WITCH IN BALI. WAS THE BARONG PRESENT IN CEYLON AND INDIA IN ANCIENT TIMES?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

AS I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT ALL THIS I MAY ASK A SILLY QUESTION. PERHAPS THE LION MENTIONED IS ACTUALLY THE BARONG WHICH IS A LION LIKE BEING REPRESENTING GOOD AGAINST RAGDA THE EVIL WITCH IN BALI. WAS THE BARONG PRESENT IN CEYLON AND INDIA IN ANCIENT TIMES?


Salaams Vandoo Amazing ... Where did you find the photo of my ex Mother in Law?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :D

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It appears as the fine example in the video was offered on Ebay only weeks ago.

As it did not sell, I'm not sure if it would be correct to post a link to the Ebay auction or include images as it might be relisted?

Salaams tribalarms ! Well it was listed as sold or gone to lunch or... anyway I was told it was purchased by the Sri Lankan National Museum...and anyway its a film. And a very knowledgeable and informative bit of kit indeed for our esteemed library... its a must see... A pictures worth a thousand words but a film... must be worth a lot more ! See that Makara Hilt !!
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams :D ~ Anybody out there??? Hello ~ Calling all Lurkers....hello

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[fernando]

... As it did not sell, I'm not sure if it would be correct to post a link to the Ebay auction or include images as it might be relisted?

Yes, it is wise not to include them.

[fernando]

[COLOR=Red][QUOTE=Jim McDougall]

1. Is the Kastane a Sri Lankan or Portuguese weapon?...
What about the following approach:
The Kastane is a Sinhalese sword that might have been through timely modifications influenced by Portuguese ... both in hilt shape and perhaps in name.
Whether the term Kastane has derived from the Portuguese castão (stick knob) this is apparently an idea that is not so sustainable and may be no more than a suggestion. However it looks more plausible the written pretension that its blade ricasso and the two rings that bend and close towards the blade are signs of Portuguese influence ... the two bent rings recalling the (less) curved protections for the forefinger to hold the blunt ricasso, for better handling control; being this present in the Kastane as only a decoration detail, the Sinhalese having not adopted this way of handling the sword.

Perhaps is noteworthy to advance that:
Whether this is not scientifically or academically evidentiated, is something for which there is no need for exhaustive denial. It is only a refutable approach to the Kastane subject presented on a digestive manner. There will be no need to embark on a full thesis on historical and social events from the period, specially if its contents is composed by a massive narration that hardly contemplates the scope of our forum; weapons.

All the best Gentlemen

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi][COLOR=Red]
What about the following approach:
The Kastane is a Sinhalese sword that might have been through timely modifications influenced by Portuguese ... both in hilt shape and perhaps in name.
Whether the term Kastane has derived from the Portuguese castão (stick knob) this is apparently an idea that is not so sustainable and may be no more than a suggestion. However it looks more plausible the written pretension that its blade ricasso and the two rings that bend and close towards the blade are signs of Portuguese influence ... the two bent rings recalling the (less) curved protections for the forefinger to hold the blunt ricasso, for better handling control; being this present in the Kastane as only a decoration detail, the Sinhalese having not adopted this way of handling the sword.

Perhaps is noteworthy to advance that:
Whether this is not scientifically or academically evidentiated, is something for which there is no need for exhaustive denial. It is only a refutable approach to the Kastane subject presented on a digestive manner. There will be no need to embark on a full thesis on historical and social events from the period, specially if its contents is composed by a massive narration that hardly contemplates the scope of our forum; weapons.

All the best Gentlemen

.


Salaams fernando ~ Thank you for your informed and well placed post on the idiosyncracies of this weapon which has for so long been shrouded in mystique but now with forum research now has a beam of light focussed upon it as never before.

Your main point, however, is puzzling since unless we discover who and what the influence was upon the hilt how can we unravel the sliding, slithering misinformation that appears to surround this conundrum?...Trying to be objective and to observe the clearly obvious historical evidence is surely the essence of this forum... unless we simply bow down to the "balloney" that has been promulgated for the last few centuries.

Not only is there confusion caused by the origins of the Hilt... and presumably the blade, but clouded by 3 loads of invaders and a serious period of belly dancer polluted weapons probably cast elsewhere (though I have no evidence of the casting locations yet) and though this is an obvious sideshow (no pun intended) the belly dancing issue did occur. The ensuing poor quality of such dancing implements cannot have helped.

Perhaps I have shoved in front of people too much detail... but since there was almost none before that must be a good thing... My main questions are narrowed on the question of Portuguese design influence versus purebred Sri Lankan origin: the latter which I suspect to be true. On the other hand as you point to a possible Portuguese hilt influence that can be viewed and weighed up.

The timeline has to be observed ... That is where historical records need looking at and as has been shown by Prasanna Weerakkody there is vital documentary within the regions Poetry~ Neither are directly concerned with swords but nor can we ignore what could be important information. I further urge that it is for the very reason the failure to understand the Kastane is becaause of its face value only... whilst the real proper research has fallen by the wayside.

I have shown good cause for the Makara arguement (discussion) and for a ballpark timeline for the Kastane. I have also illustrated the historical though splintered Kingdoms under whose auspices expert craft-workshops operated and who would have been very capable makers of the Kastane. The evidence of the Popham and the Japan delegation present in the Sendai museum has been taken into account. I cannot see where I may have missed the importance of the sword and having also placed several photographs ....?

Here is an extract made compact enough so people can readily observe the details ...of the Portuguese build up which is important to understand because they didn't suddenly seize partial control all at once in the early 17th C. Moreover this window into the important history shows the Moorish element and gives a flavour of the moment when it was all happening..

"Quote"
At the onset of the European period in Sri Lanka in the sixteenth century, there were three native centers of political power: the two Sinhalese kingdoms of Kotte and Kandy and the Tamil kingdom at Jaffna. Kotte was the principal seat of Sinhalese power, and it claimed a largely imaginary overlordship not only over Kandy but also over the entire island. None of the three kingdoms, however, had the strength to assert itself over the other two and reunify the island.

In 1505 Don Lourenço de Almeida, son of the Portuguese viceroy in India, was sailing off the southwestern coast of Sri Lanka looking for Moorish ships to attack when stormy weather forced his fleet to dock at Galle. Word of these strangers who "eat hunks of white stone and drink blood (presumably wine). . . and have guns with a noise louder than thunder. . ." spread quickly and reached King Parakramabahu VIII of Kotte (1484-1508), who offered gifts of cinnamon and elephants to the Portuguese to take back to their home port at Cochin on the Malabar Coast of southwestern India. The king also gave the Portuguese permission to build a residence in Colombo for trade purposes. Within a short time, however, Portuguese militaristic and monopolistic intentions became apparent. Their heavily fortified "trading post" at Colombo and open hostility toward the island's Muslim traders aroused Sinhalese suspicions.

Following the decline of the Chola as a maritime power in the twelfth century, Muslim trading communities in South Asia claimed a major share of commerce in the Indian Ocean and developed extensive east-west, as well as Indo-Sri Lankan, commercial trade routes. As the Portuguese expanded into the region, this flourishing Muslim trade became an irresistible target for European interlopers. The sixteenth-century Roman Catholic Church was intolerant of Islam and encouraged the Portuguese to take over the profitable shipping trade monopolized by the Moors. In addition, the Portuguese would later have another strong motive for hostility toward the Moors because the latter played an important role in the Kandyan economy, one that enabled the kingdom successfully to resist the Portuguese. "Unquote"

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[VANDOO]

FERNANDO'S EXAMPLE DOES INDEED SHOW A DOLPHIN DESIGN WHICH WAS POPULAR IN ROME AND WAS PRESENT ON A CORNICE OF THE TEMPLE OF NEPTUNE IN ANCIENT ROME. THIS DOLPHIN WAS A POPULAR DESIGN IN ROME ESPECIALLY IN THE LATE 17 TO THE EARLY 18 TH. CENTURYS HERE IS A PICTURE OF A TABLE 18TH. CENTURY GEORGE 2 DOLPHIN SLAB TABLE.
NO DOUBT THERE WAS INFLUENCE FROM ANCIENT TIMES UP TO AND INCLUDING THE PRESENCE OF EUROPEAN NATIONS PERIOD OF INFLUENCE. FERNANDOS EXAMPLE IS LIKELY SUCH AN EXAMPLE FROM AROUND 17TH TO 18 CENTURY.
THE ORIGINAL FORMS AND INFLUENCE WOULD HAVE LIKELY BEEN FROM HINDU AND BUDHIST INFLUENCE. CEYLON WAS A SEAFARING CIVILIZATION AND LIKELY ENCOUNTERED AND TRADED WITH ALL OTHER SEAFARING GROUPS IN THE REGION SO OTHER INFLUENCES MAY HAVE BEEN AT PLAY EARLY IN THE SWORDS EVOLUTION TO ITS PRESENT FORM.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

FERNANDO'S EXAMPLE DOES INDEED SHOW A DOLPHIN DESIGN WHICH WAS POPULAR IN ROME AND WAS PRESENT ON A CORNICE OF THE TEMPLE OF NEPTUNE IN ANCIENT ROME. THIS DOLPHIN WAS A POPULAR DESIGN IN ROME ESPECIALLY IN THE LATE 17 TO THE EARLY 18 TH. CENTURYS HERE IS A PICTURE OF A TABLE 18TH. CENTURY GEORGE 2 DOLPHIN SLAB TABLE.
NO DOUBT THERE WAS INFLUENCE FROM ANCIENT TIMES UP TO AND INCLUDING THE PRESENCE OF EUROPEAN NATIONS PERIOD OF INFLUENCE. FERNANDOS EXAMPLE IS LIKELY SUCH AN EXAMPLE FROM AROUND 17TH TO 18 CENTURY.
THE ORIGINAL FORMS AND INFLUENCE WOULD HAVE LIKELY BEEN FROM HINDU AND BUDHIST INFLUENCE. CEYLON WAS A SEAFARING CIVILIZATION AND LIKELY ENCOUNTERED AND TRADED WITH ALL OTHER SEAFARING GROUPS IN THE REGION SO OTHER INFLUENCES MAY HAVE BEEN AT PLAY EARLY IN THE SWORDS EVOLUTION TO ITS PRESENT FORM.

Salaams Vandoo... The Makara is historically entwined in Sri Lankan history going back ...way back.... I have recorded it and shown the almost identical form on the Katane. Whilst dolphin may look vaguely in that ballpark they don't have the same face and don't spew other deities from their mouths... I put it to you that dolphin tables are simply that; dolphin tables. You are right about the Sri Lankan traders though.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

[QUOTE=fernando] ...Trying to be objective ...
Shalom Ibrahiim,
I truly admire your eloquence as well as your cultural luggage. But coming to the point of being objective and only caring about the object of our scope, i would point out that, either i am blocked or, a great part of your present letter was already presented in post #10... precisely a part that doesn't reveal any evidence or peripheral accounts of weapons evolution :cool: .

[Jim McDougall]

As noted in Elgood ("Firearms of the Islamic World",1995) notes , when Ludevico di Vathema arrived in Ceylon in 1505, the year before d'Almeida, he notes the Sinhalese use of lances and swords. I am presuming that these swords were probably of the types used in Southern India in these and previous periods.

From Cordiner (1807, "Ceylon", p.115-16) "...the evolution of the decorative hilt of the curved scimitar like kastane is not without interest. From a weapon of utility the sword became a sign of rank and the heads of lions, serapendiyas and human figures increased in number. Originally the hilt consisted of a lions head, the knuckleguard and the two quillons terminating simply. "
Also, "...a sword said to have belonged to Analepola Adigar with straight blade with low crested lionhead pommel"...is in Kandy Museum.

In Deraniyagala (1942, p.113) "..the development of the ceremonial sword of rank soon unfitted it for fighting purposes as the elaborate crest to the lionheaded hilt comes into uncomfortable contact with the heel of the users had or wrist, while it is also significant that swords so ornamented generally appear too small for war, unlike the larger ones which have no crests. The latter swords also possess as many as four quillons. "
Also noted, "...the mitta (=hilt) ...sinha munu mitta (=lion faced hilt).
The quillons are noted as serapendiya.

Cordiner (op.cit. p.97) states everyone in office wore a sword with hilt of silver as well as scabbard of silver and the design and workmanship indicated rank of wearer. The lowest were of wood.

With these notes I am thinking that perhaps the hilt indeed represented lionheads on the Sinhalese courtly swords, as these were regally symbolic. I cannot see any evidence to suggest that lionheads would have come from European influence as these are longstanding in the subcontinent from Rajputs and Sikhs (singh=lion) . Elgood ("Hindu Arms and Ritual", p.294) notes, ".....the Hindu court used iconographic lions earlier than 17th century as architectural evidence demonstrates".

I am wondering if perhaps the lionhead kastane would be of course the Sinhalese sword well recognized, and the 'variant' head forms might indeed be makara and more associated with kavara as suggested. While there is an obvious separation between the Kandy kingdom and many of the other primarily coastal regions, as well as the colonial circumstances, it seems that such interpretations could be possible.

It seems virtually all examples of kastane with VOC markings and dates are invariably 18th century, during thier reorganization efforts. As far as I know, there are no British EIC marked blades, and David Harding ("Small Arms of the East India Company") indicates no swords were so marked, only firearms and bayonets.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Ibrahim, Still am a bit puzzled by some of the Sri Lankan History you present. I have never heard of a Karawa kingdom in My country. Karawa as far as I know was only a “cast” of Sinhalese; I would say they were a minor portion of the population and particular to the coastal districts primarily on the Western and Southern Sea boards. Except for being part of the Karawa.org web site I am not too sure if all of it can be equally upheld as true. The information that caste Karawa influenced the Sinhalese design to such an extent is very new to me, Swords or otherwise.

Vandoo curiously my personal belief is that the original Makara was a Cetacean- Probably a Pilot whale or Sperm whale. incidentally Sri Lankan waters are also a global hot spot for Marine Mammals. (being a marine environmentalist on the side makes this very exciting to me) But delving on that is another long story entirely.

The possibility of the name Kasthana being influenced by the Portuguese is real as it is a word that does not seem to have a direct meaning in Sinhala or have too many similar words to accompany it. Curiously the only other similar term that (comes to my mind) that may also shed a little light on this is the “Patisthana” spears; being of the same class as the Partisans. The similarity between the terms “Kasthana” or “Patisthana” seem obvious. The only difference being the presence of a much more ancient form of spear known in literature as the “patissa” which is most probably ancestor to the “Patisthana”. It is known that the Sinhala elite of the era was quite conversant with Portuguese and the use of the language had become wide spread and stylish as a secondary language in the Country. even today there is a rather large number of words of Portuguese origin amalgamated within the Sinhala language.

[fernando]

Great knowledge, Prasanna !


... The possibility of the name Kasthana being influenced by the Portuguese is real as it is a word that does not seem to have a direct meaning in Sinhala or have too many similar words to accompany it...
I too have heard about the 'uniqueness' of the term, but am not studious enough to go deep into it, neither i recall the source i have read about it; so i preferred to attribute it some reserve.

Curiously the only other similar term that (comes to my mind) that may also shed a little light on this is the “Patisthana” spears; being of the same class as the Partisans..
Yes, specialy if you consider that the term in portuguese is Partasana.

... It is known that the Sinhala elite of the era was quite conversant with Portuguese and the use of the language had become wide spread and stylish as a secondary language in the Country. even today there is a rather large number of words of Portuguese origin amalgamated within the Sinhala language.
Amazing ... and so familiar to what i have learnt of other places that were approached by Portuguese during that period, like in Malaca (Melaka), where the elders of a local comunity still dominate several words and expressions and in Japan, where a significant number of words were adopted and are still active in their vocabulary.

.

[Jim McDougall]

What outstanding information Prasanna!!! Thank you for these clarifications with which some key adjustments can be made to some long standing questions concerning these weapons. Thank you for the information on the Portuguese root of the kastane term as well. I notice that your spelling is different than the popularly used 'kastane', with kasthane instead. As I am far from being a linguist, may I ask what is the proper way to pronounce the term?
Interesting note on the spear, and associations with the European polearms known as partisans which have multiple blade type features. Also, the term patissa is of course used in India to describe the spatulate pointed long swords typically mounted in traditional khanda form hilts. Again, these terms being cross utilized is quite interesting with the semantics and I would imagine transliteration instances at hand.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahim, Still am a bit puzzled by some of the Sri Lankan History you present. I have never heard of a Karawa kingdom in My country. Karawa as far as I know was only a “cast” of Sinhalese; I would say they were a minor portion of the population and particular to the coastal districts primarily on the Western and Southern Sea boards. Except for being part of the Karawa.org web site I am not too sure if all of it can be equally upheld as true. The information that caste Karawa influenced the Sinhalese design to such an extent is very new to me, Swords or otherwise.

Vandoo curiously my personal belief is that the original Makara was a Cetacean- Probably a Pilot whale or Sperm whale. incidentally Sri Lankan waters are also a global hot spot for Marine Mammals. (being a marine environmentalist on the side makes this very exciting to me) But delving on that is another long story entirely.

The possibility of the name Kasthana being influenced by the Portuguese is real as it is a word that does not seem to have a direct meaning in Sinhala or have too many similar words to accompany it. Curiously the only other similar term that (comes to my mind) that may also shed a little light on this is the “Patisthana” spears; being of the same class as the Partisans. The similarity between the terms “Kasthana” or “Patisthana” seem obvious. The only difference being the presence of a much more ancient form of spear known in literature as the “patissa” which is most probably ancestor to the “Patisthana”. It is known that the Sinhala elite of the era was quite conversant with Portuguese and the use of the language had become wide spread and stylish as a secondary language in the Country. even today there is a rather large number of words of Portuguese origin amalgamated within the Sinhala language.


Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody ~ Thank you for your post. (see notes below for the other variants in pronunciation and you will find Karawa listed.) For ease of look up I have placed the reference below. ( I make no apologies for hammering in the large quantity of detail so far but add that I have cautioned forumites that there is no need to plough through it all unless they want to of course ... but that it is there for reference.

Please do read the notes below however for the 7 point plan goes some way to proving my theory.

The Karava were a major fighting class at the time and it is easy to see that they may have some grievances if they are, as it is reported, been down graded to fishermen. What is very relevant as the story unfolded was who the Portuguese recruited to fight their battles for them. They co-opted the Karava dynasty; the fighting caste…which was split in half; allegiance being half for and half against the Portuguese invaders.

Where we need to focus~ is on the time period before the Portuguese involvement in Sri Lanka i.e. before 1505 ( i.e. when Don Lourenço de Almeida, son of the Portuguese viceroy in India, was sailing off the southwestern coast of Sri Lanka looking for Moorish ships to attack when stormy weather forced his fleet to dock at Galle.) ~ although the Portuguese made their big move in the late 1600s they had been very much involved and a closer look into that time frame could be revealing.

My questions are~

Are there any Kastane (Kasthane) which predate the Portuguese involvement that we may get a picture of?
How did the blades morph into short and medium sizes and why?
Were they banned from being worn in public?
Is there any influence from Moorish, Portuguese, or from other Nations on the design of the Kastane (Kasthane)?
Is there a link between the words Casao and Kasthane? It seems obscure and we have seen such puzzles come to nought before ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes;
1.See this thread #14 photo 3, for A 19th century representation of the Karava Makara Flag.

2.The image of the mythical creature Makara is extensively used in ancient Sri Lankan royal architecture.See the water spout also at #14.

3.This flag is one of the main flags still used by the Karavas at their ceremonies.

4.The Mukkara Hatana, an ola leaf manuscript now in the British Museum states that King Parakramabahu IV granted it to the Karavas.

5.Parakrama Bahu IV, came to the throne in A.D. 1325/6. About 2 centuries before Portuguese involvement in the Indian Ocean.

6.Karava (pronounced Karaava) also Karawa, Karawe, Karave, Kaurava, Kshatriya, Khatriya, Kuru, Kuru Kula, Kurukulam, Kurukulum, Kurukulather or Kurukulathar is the traditional military (warrior / Kshatriya / royal ) race, of Sri Lanka.

7.The Karavas were one of the interconnected ruling dynasties of the Indian region. Royal succession in Sri Lanka passed on to Karava rulers during the Polonnaruwa period. Karava king Gajabahu was one of the greatest, and the Kandy Perehera and other annual pageants of Sri Lanka that end with the water cutting ceremony were initially pageants in honour of king Gajabahu's victories. The many kingdoms of Sri Lanka were thereafter ruled by Karava Kings and sub-kings until the last three kingdoms passed over from Karava royal families to Europeans; Kotte and Jaffna in the 16th century to the Portuguese and Kandy in the 19th century to the British.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

As noted in Elgood ("Firearms of the Islamic World",1995) notes , when Ludevico di Vathema arrived in Ceylon in 1505, the year before d'Almeida, he notes the Sinhalese use of lances and swords. I am presuming that these swords were probably of the types used in Southern India in these and previous periods.

From Cordiner (1807, "Ceylon", p.115-16) "...the evolution of the decorative hilt of the curved scimitar like kastane is not without interest. From a weapon of utility the sword became a sign of rank and the heads of lions, serapendiyas and human figures increased in number. Originally the hilt consisted of a lions head, the knuckleguard and the two quillons terminating simply. "
Also, "...a sword said to have belonged to Analepola Adigar with straight blade with low crested lionhead pommel"...is in Kandy Museum.

In Deraniyagala (1942, p.113) "..the development of the ceremonial sword of rank soon unfitted it for fighting purposes as the elaborate crest to the lionheaded hilt comes into uncomfortable contact with the heel of the users had or wrist, while it is also significant that swords so ornamented generally appear too small for war, unlike the larger ones which have no crests. The latter swords also possess as many as four quillons. "
Also noted, "...the mitta (=hilt) ...sinha munu mitta (=lion faced hilt).
The quillons are noted as serapendiya.

Cordiner (op.cit. p.97) states everyone in office wore a sword with hilt of silver as well as scabbard of silver and the design and workmanship indicated rank of wearer. The lowest were of wood.

With these notes I am thinking that perhaps the hilt indeed represented lionheads on the Sinhalese courtly swords, as these were regally symbolic. I cannot see any evidence to suggest that lionheads would have come from European influence as these are longstanding in the subcontinent from Rajputs and Sikhs (singh=lion) . Elgood ("Hindu Arms and Ritual", p.294) notes, ".....the Hindu court used iconographic lions earlier than 17th century as architectural evidence demonstrates".

I am wondering if perhaps the lionhead kastane would be of course the Sinhalese sword well recognized, and the 'variant' head forms might indeed be makara and more associated with kavara as suggested. While there is an obvious separation between the Kandy kingdom and many of the other primarily coastal regions, as well as the colonial circumstances, it seems that such interpretations could be possible.

It seems virtually all examples of kastane with VOC markings and dates are invariably 18th century, during thier reorganization efforts. As far as I know, there are no British EIC marked blades, and David Harding ("Small Arms of the East India Company") indicates no swords were so marked, only firearms and bayonets.


Salaams Jim, I missed that post entirely ! Your references as always are excellent. I am at complete logaheads with the details for reasons outlined in my previous posts in that the very essence of the Kastane is its Makara hilt.. The authors are wrong in my opinion and have been spun a line or have reached the wrong conclusions. To anyone who thinks I can describe that in less shocking terms believe me I have tried but words fail me...

The hilt of the Kastane is from the ancient Makara head not the lion. Further more the modern flag illustrates an English Heraldic Lion not a lion from India or Sri Lanka where the only lion architecture are fitted around urinals. Makara on the other hand adorn all sorts of traditional artifacts including the door archways of temples, battle flags, axe weapons, and water spouts and of course Kastane hilts. The Makara, in Sri Lanka is an ancient historical mythical figure ~ the Lion is not.

The written word is the most difficult to correct ... Authors of the past are difficult or impossible to correct~ I believe they are completely wrong about this description but frankly as it effects the questions we have does it matter...I wish it didn't but I'm afraid it does.

Trying to get into the time frame of 15/16th century Sri Lanka and to view the construct of a sword hilt which is part of the psche of the Sri Lankans is important... to see if this was a Sri Lankan or invader design or both, when the question hangs over the proceedings; Is it a Lion or Makara hilt?

Perhaps the solution is to look at both possibilities ~ maybe the result will be similar? I knew this would run into a brick wall as the idiosyncracies of caste in Sri Lanka have forced the issue and facts have been played with and history has been rewritten but we ought to continue unabated...without emotion and get to the truth.

The Makara,for me, is the inspiration behind the Kastane hilt and we are back to the question of when did it appear and who designed it?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim.
Thank you for the kind words. It is great to continue working on the history of these fascinating hilts, which have always been held to represent the sinha or lion on the pommel, while the other zoomorphics on quillon and knuckleguard terminals typically are makara. I have always thought that this was because these other creatures, makara in particular, were effectively subordinate in the pantheons and dieties theologically and mythologically. With this being the case, I think the lion had been regally held in Sinhala from early times, and with the early invaders from the subcontinent.
Visually, as we know from the constant efforts of ethnologists and archaeologists and all students of worldwide cultures, it is often difficult to identify some of the extremely stylized and interpreted zoological and mythological creatures in material culture. There are of course many examples, but here we focus on most of these pommels, which have a curiously represented ruff around the neck, and while somewhat water creature looking, still I think are lions.

The early examples may reveal more once we find examples or more data, but for now I still think lion for the most part. I still wonder if variants could have makara though.

All the best,
Jim

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Fernando- thanks for the Portuguese term for Patisthana =Partisana the similarity is striking it is practically the same word. also the use of the term “Lansa” in Sinhala texts for Lance/s establishes the trend well. The spears are never called Lansa in times before the Portuguese; so this is also attributed to the Portuguese. This would provide a strong context to having a Portuguese influence in the name Kasthana; though The origin and design of the sword need to be established outside of the source of its name. I am trying to find references to another term as there was a prince named “Asthana” a similar term. will update on this as it may modify our understanding of the word in question.

Jim- The design of the original “patissa” weapon is not well known except in text references and it is described as a Spear and sometimes as a throwing weapon. Its relation to the Indian “patissa” need to be established. In Sinhala pronunciation the “h” has emphasis hence my spelling it as Kasthana. (Kas-Tha-na).

Ibrahiim- Your points on use of Lion, Makara, figures of Palaces and Royal doorways in urinal stones is out of context. These urinal stones were used by the Buddhist priest hood with the idea that the worldly acquisitions, riches and are considered as worthless and ephemeral in the path to achieving Enlightenment. It does not reduce its value in a mundane context.

I tend to think that most of your sources originate from the website Karawa.org It is not a reliable source of reference and I hope you would use other sources. And please stop making hasty and unfounded (and erroneous ) remarks and judgments on the Sri Lankan culture and people.

Just read the “Mukkara hatana” (The Battle with the Mukkara people- essentially a minor “Hatan Kavya” text circa 1412 -1640AD.) and all your answers are there. It in essence speaks of the Sinhala King Parakramabahu VI summoning of the Karawa Mercenaries from South India to aid in the wars with the Mukkaru enemies in the Puttalam area. An army of 7740 soldiers arrive with 41 officers and service men, the manuscript goes on to describing the war, the provision of gifts including the flags and settlement of the Mercenaries in the coastal districts between Puttalam and Negombo a stretch of coastline North of Colombo. the Arrival of Portuguese, the joining of the Karawa with the Portuguese as Lascarins, the eventual defection of Karawa as they are impressed by the Bravery of the Sinhala King Raja Singhe I and the assistance provided to the King in facilitating the landing of Dutch forces against the Portuguese. All the names of the Karawa leaders who are supposed to have arrived are South Indian and NOT Sinhala including the names marked on the Swords presented by the King. Beyond this the vague assumptions of the link to Kuru (directly in Sri Lanka) or Kshathriya is difficult to sustain in the least. The Primary fighting men in the Sinhala Kingdom came from the Govigama and its precedent castes as they were the larger population as well as being less likely to be converted and support the enemy. But saying that the Caste system or values are far less strict or prejudicial in the Buddhist Sinhala context than the Hindu system.

Makara is a common and ancient motif in Sinhala art- and despite being present in the Karawa Banner its use and significance is far wider than that and is in no way restricted to Karawa. All I hope to establish is that 1. Karawa was not of sufficient prominence in the armies of the period to influence the design of the Kasthana which was far widely used. 2. The Use of Makara as a symbol is not limited to Karawa. hence the Karawa clan argument does not arise in the search for Kasthana origin. Also look at my earlier post for evidence from still living traditions of fighting arts who describe the Kasthana hilt as a Lion head.

Though I have shared this elsewhere in the forum I shall also include a Kasthana Sword gifted to a chief of the Mukkara clan by King Keerthi Sri Rajasinghe at a place close to Puttalam. This was also presented with three flags of honor: Hanuman Flag, Peacock Flag and the Lion Flag. (Similar to the Karawa being presented with the Ravana Flag, Ira handa (Sun and Moon) Flag[which incidentally is the Hathara Korale Flag-not clear what its relevance is to Karawa] and the Makara Flag. as said in the Mukkara hatana). Karawa was not special in receiving similar honors.

As far as I know there were no restrictions in carrying arms in public till time of British repression of Sinhalese in the 19th century.
:)

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Sorry missed the attachments...
Flags and Kasthana presented to the Mukkara clan

[M ELEY]

Not to distract from the central thesis of the kastane lion vs Makara, but the lion symbols certainly date back to Ceylon's early history. Here's a thread to the so-called 'maneless lion' coins of the early kindom-

http://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/chapter-iii-maneless-lion-type/

-Mark

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Not to distract from the central thesis of the kastane lion vs Makara, but the lion symbols certainly date back to Ceylon's early history. Here's a thread to the so-called 'maneless lion' coins of the early kindom-

http://sirimunasiha.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/chapter-iii-maneless-lion-type/

-Mark

Salaams M Eley, I enjoyed going through the reference and noted the final paragraph from a reader..Quote "some people are of the opinion that these are not coins and if they are they don't belong the Island".Unquote

My mind says Makara as the design feature on the hilt of the Kastane. It spews deities all over the hilt. This is illustrated in the many architectural features of temples, flags etc as I have shown. Its not the big floppy headed pussy cat but the vicious Makara looking mythological figure of old. This is of course my opinion.

It alters the way I research the subject and others who believe its a cat can look at it through their own prism... who knows maybe the answer will turn out to be the same in the end?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Fernando- thanks for the Portuguese term for Patisthana =Partisana the similarity is striking it is practically the same word. also the use of the term “Lansa” in Sinhala texts for Lance/s establishes the trend well. The spears are never called Lansa in times before the Portuguese; so this is also attributed to the Portuguese. This would provide a strong context to having a Portuguese influence in the name Kasthana; though The origin and design of the sword need to be established outside of the source of its name. I am trying to find references to another term as there was a prince named “Asthana” a similar term. will update on this as it may modify our understanding of the word in question.

Jim- The design of the original “patissa” weapon is not well known except in text references and it is described as a Spear and sometimes as a throwing weapon. Its relation to the Indian “patissa” need to be established. In Sinhala pronunciation the “h” has emphasis hence my spelling it as Kasthana. (Kas-Tha-na).

Ibrahiim- Your points on use of Lion, Makara, figures of Palaces and Royal doorways in urinal stones is out of context. These urinal stones were used by the Buddhist priest hood with the idea that the worldly acquisitions, riches and are considered as worthless and ephemeral in the path to achieving Enlightenment. It does not reduce its value in a mundane context.

I tend to think that most of your sources originate from the website Karawa.org It is not a reliable source of reference and I hope you would use other sources. And please stop making hasty and unfounded (and erroneous ) remarks and judgments on the Sri Lankan culture and people.

Just read the “Mukkara hatana” (The Battle with the Mukkara people- essentially a minor “Hatan Kavya” text circa 1412 -1640AD.) and all your answers are there. It in essence speaks of the Sinhala King Parakramabahu VI summoning of the Karawa Mercenaries from South India to aid in the wars with the Mukkaru enemies in the Puttalam area. An army of 7740 soldiers arrive with 41 officers and service men, the manuscript goes on to describing the war, the provision of gifts including the flags and settlement of the Mercenaries in the coastal districts between Puttalam and Negombo a stretch of coastline North of Colombo. the Arrival of Portuguese, the joining of the Karawa with the Portuguese as Lascarins, the eventual defection of Karawa as they are impressed by the Bravery of the Sinhala King Raja Singhe I and the assistance provided to the King in facilitating the landing of Dutch forces against the Portuguese. All the names of the Karawa leaders who are supposed to have arrived are South Indian and NOT Sinhala including the names marked on the Swords presented by the King. Beyond this the vague assumptions of the link to Kuru (directly in Sri Lanka) or Kshathriya is difficult to sustain in the least. The Primary fighting men in the Sinhala Kingdom came from the Govigama and its precedent castes as they were the larger population as well as being less likely to be converted and support the enemy. But saying that the Caste system or values are far less strict or prejudicial in the Buddhist Sinhala context than the Hindu system.

Makara is a common and ancient motif in Sinhala art- and despite being present in the Karawa Banner its use and significance is far wider than that and is in no way restricted to Karawa. All I hope to establish is that 1. Karawa was not of sufficient prominence in the armies of the period to influence the design of the Kasthana which was far widely used. 2. The Use of Makara as a symbol is not limited to Karawa. hence the Karawa clan argument does not arise in the search for Kasthana origin. Also look at my earlier post for evidence from still living traditions of fighting arts who describe the Kasthana hilt as a Lion head.

Though I have shared this elsewhere in the forum I shall also include a Kasthana Sword gifted to a chief of the Mukkara clan by King Keerthi Sri Rajasinghe at a place close to Puttalam. This was also presented with three flags of honor: Hanuman Flag, Peacock Flag and the Lion Flag. (Similar to the Karawa being presented with the Ravana Flag, Ira handa (Sun and Moon) Flag[which incidentally is the Hathara Korale Flag-not clear what its relevance is to Karawa] and the Makara Flag. as said in the Mukkara hatana). Karawa was not special in receiving similar honors.

As far as I know there were no restrictions in carrying arms in public till time of British repression of Sinhalese in the 19th century.
:)


Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody Thank you for posting the information which throws more light on the history of Sri Lanka especially the detail of the name "asthana"

Your last point is interesting since I believe their was a restriction on carrying arms. Nontheless your points are well received though regarding Quote "And please stop making hasty and unfounded (and erroneous ) remarks and judgments on the Sri Lankan culture and people'. Unquote I will make every effort to report the facts which you may or may not agree with but still ...report them I will. This is a free speaking forum. Naturally as always I shall be the first to identify if I have made a mistake for which to date I can safely say I have not.

Here are the twenty reasons which to me indicate that the Makara design was adopted as the Hilt style and since the Makara is also illustrated by all the Kastane Hilts seen so far on this thread and disgorging deities...which lions don't do~

1. Typically Makara are displayed disgorging other beasts (usually Nagas) e.g. On corner of a lintel on one of the towers surrounding the central pyramid at Bakong, Roluos, Cambodia.

2. Its symbolic representation in the form of a Makara head at the corner of temple roofs is as water element which also functions as a "rainwater spout or gargoyle". It is also seen as water spouts at the source of a springs. The artistic carving in stone is in the form of identical pair of Makaras flanked by two nagas (snake gods) along with a crown of Garuda, which is called the Kirthimukha face.

3. Such depictions are also seen at the entrance of wooden doorways as the top arch and also as a Torana behind Buddha’s images.

4. The Newa art of Nepal uses this depiction extensively. In Newar architecture, its depiction is; "as guardian of gateways, the Makara image appears on the curved prongs of the vast crossed-vajra that encompasses the four gateways of the two-dimensional mandala. Of the three dimensional-mandala this crossed-vajra supports the whole structure of the mandala palace symbolizing the immovable stability of the vajra-ground on which it stands."

5. Makaras are also a characteristic motif of the religious Khmer architecture of the Angkor region of Cambodia which was the capital of the Khmer Empire.

6.They are usually part of the decorative carving on a lintel, tympanum, or wall.

7. Makaras are usually depicted with another symbolic animals, such as a lion, naga or serpent, emerging from its gaping open mouth.

8. Makara are a central design motif in the beautiful lintels of the Roluos group of temples: Preah Ko, Bakong, and Lolei.

9. At Banteay Srei, carvings of Makaras disgorging other monsters were installed on many of the buildings' corners.


10. Makara is seen disgorging a lion-like creature on corner of a lintel on one of the towers) surrounding the central pyramid at Bakong, Roluos, Cambodia.

11. Its symbolic representation in the form of a Makara head at the corner of temple roofs is as water element which also functions as a "rainwater spout or gargoyle". It is also seen as water spouts at the source of a spring. The artistic carving in stone is in the form of identical pair of Makaras flanked by two Nagas (snake gods) along with a crown of Garuda, which is called the kirthimukha face.

12. Such depictions are also seen at the entrance of wooden doorways as the top arch and also as a Torana behind Buddha’s images.

13. Makara (Sanskrit: मकर) is a sea-creature in Hindu mythology. It is generally depicted as half terrestrial animal (in the frontal part in animal forms of elephant or crocodile or stag, or deer) and in hind part as aquatic animal, in the tail part, as a fish tail or also as seal. Sometimes, even a peacock tail is depicted.

14. It is the Vahana (vehicle) of the Ganga - the goddess of river Ganges (Ganga) and the sea god Varuna.

15.It is also the insignia of the love god Kamadeva. Kamadeva is also known as Makaradhvaja (on whose flag a Makara is depicted) .

16.The Makara is the astrological sign of Capricorn, one of the twelve symbols of the Zodiac.

17. It is often portrayed protecting entryways to Hindu and Buddhist temples.

18. It is symbolized in ornaments are also in popular use as wedding gifts for bridal decoration.

19.The Hindu Preserver-god Vishnu is also shown wearing makara-shaped earrings called Makarakundalas.

20.The Sun God Surya and the Mother Goddess Chandi are also sometimes described as being adorned with Makarakundalas.

Finally I offer the fact that Makara were used to decorate other weapons including the two spiked axe in an earlier post.

In conclusion since the Kastane Hilt is almost always shown as a mythical monster disgorging other deities onto the hilt, knuckleguard and guard/quillon forms I offer the following " The Kastane hilt is steeped in history and takes its obvious monster format from the mythical Makara beast/ Deity of Sri Lankan ancient history, tradition and culture mirroring architectural and other examples outlined from 1 to 20 above."

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

My humble appologies, Prasana :o .
As already edited in my previous post, the correct spell in Partasana and not Partisana.
This word derives from Italian Partigiana folowed by Castillian Partesana.
And talking about correcteness, i would add that it is Lança and not Lansa. The 'ç' having an intense accentuation; it sounds like in 'tassle' and not like in 'easy'.
Concerning the Kasthane sword's facet, it is indeed possible to see out there diverse opinions; the extreme one pretending that this sword was put up due to European presence in Ceilão.
I still prefer the school that sees in the blade ricasso and in the 'false' lower quillons a Portuguese influence in the already existant type of sword; the same school that states that, at first, the Kastane was an actual combat weapon.
But then i must also convey that this source (after a phone call just made) does not face the probability of the term Kastane coming from the portuguese castão; instead more prepaired to consider the term's ethimology originating in the word Katana/Katane, as both swords have a sligtly curved single edgded blade.
It is also admitable that the Kastane began loosing its martial utility by the turning of the XVII-XVIII centuries, their purpose becoming a decorated court sword, reaching its 'jewel' status by the XIX-XX century.
Attached i post a picture of a Kastane of such late period, a piece of extreme luxury, worthy of a Muhandiram.
Its grip, guard and scabbard are in chiseled and sculpted silver. Partially inset with gold chiseled plates.The lion's tongue, mane and eyes are in gold ... these with rubies. In the center of the guard a gold makara.
The blade has two punctions (marks).
This sword was in auction in Lisbon by 1989 and its estimate sale price was 1 500 000 escudos ... which would correspond to nowadays 15 000 US Dollars. I ignore the price it reached.
The other picture shows a more plain example, also auctioned in the same day; this one dated XVI-XVII century, with a combat blade.


.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams~ Note to Forum~ see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)

In the picture below from the above reference is the Cambodian style Makara disgourging another beast similar to the face on some knuckleguards though appearing as it does "swallowing another beast" would normally be referred to as a Kirtimukha.

There is a beast commonly seen being disgourged and at my earlier post #14 picture 5,described in some circles as a half crocodile half humanoid figure and the face seen on Knuckleguards would be this ~ unless it was swallowing something ... in which case a Kirtimukha ....

The example at #56 picture 1 above looks like the humano -crocodile form "face" and appearing on the knuckleguard.

Where the exiting creatures are of the form serpents they are referred to as Nagas.

In the case of other Makara being spewed forth they may be viewed at the tail feathers as having peacock feathers... which is the case in many hilts including # 56 above.

All deities and monsters are seen in many formats pouring forth from the Makara and even a lion is depicted exiting a Makara mouth( not shown here) but so far as I can see, not the other way around..

The Hilt form therefor cannot be a lion form because lions don't throw out monsters in this way.

Makara, however, fits exactly.


Both shown below for ease of reference.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely outstanding material presented here everybody, and really exciting to see complete perspective on all these historical details. I had realized the history of the kastane was complex, but never the dimension with all of this fantastic history.
Prasanna, thank you so much for the information on the patissa as well as for the courteous and extremely informative replies.

Mark, thank you for the outstanding link, which reveals the apparantly long venerated lion as a symbolic figure in the island of Sri Lanka. It seems that archaeological evidence dramatically predates the development of the hilt of the kastane (thank you Prasanna also for the explanation of the 'h') and that its motif would reflect that Sinhalese tradition. The character of the zoomorphic head on the kastane is admittedly grotesque in nature, which would easily lead to varying perception to those outside their cultural sphere. I must admit that I have often had difficulty in recognizing and identifying makara, yali, and serapendiya alone in these contexts, so very much appreciate the explanations.

If I am understanding correctly, these creatures are typically in the nature of subordinate stature in these cultural holdings rather than having deities, and the lion is more of regal nature. It would seem that the hilt pommel would be in a paramount position with which a lion would be in accord.

Also, if I am understanding correctly, the Kandyan kingdom remained autonomous during colonial ventures there of the Portuguese, Dutch and British. They had the Royal workshops fashioning various weapons for thier courts and influential figures for some time.
I wonder if they made blades for swords, or used blades acquired from either trade or colonial entities. It seems that the production of the fine steel produced there ended largely around 13th century? Were the Arabs there colonially producing blades for weapons using the steel produced, or was that production completely defunct?

It seems that the entry of European blades into use for the now courtly type kastane must have been as discussed in 18th century, and the now elaborately hilted versions would have been less than combat worthy.
If the Kandyan kingdom remained autonomous, thier wearing of the kastane does not seem to me likely to be proscribed, and as status symbols of the type often worn by merchants and high ranking officials, court swords would seem regular accoutrements.

I just wanted to add my thoughts in this interesting discussion with probably more questions than useful observations, but its great to have such well faceted material to review in developing understanding on these.

Thank you guys!

Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Absolutely outstanding material presented here everybody, and really exciting to see complete perspective on all these historical details. I had realized the history of the kastane was complex, but never the dimension with all of this fantastic history.
Prasanna, thank you so much for the information on the patissa as well as for the courteous and extremely informative replies.

Mark, thank you for the outstanding link, which reveals the apparantly long venerated lion as a symbolic figure in the island of Sri Lanka. It seems that archaeological evidence dramatically predates the development of the hilt of the kastane (thank you Prasanna also for the explanation of the 'h') and that its motif would reflect that Sinhalese tradition. The character of the zoomorphic head on the kastane is admittedly grotesque in nature, which would easily lead to varying perception to those outside their cultural sphere. I must admit that I have often had difficulty in recognizing and identifying makara, yali, and serapendiya alone in these contexts, so very much appreciate the explanations.

If I am understanding correctly, these creatures are typically in the nature of subordinate stature in these cultural holdings rather than having deities, and the lion is more of regal nature. It would seem that the hilt pommel would be in a paramount position with which a lion would be in accord.

Also, if I am understanding correctly, the Kandyan kingdom remained autonomous during colonial ventures there of the Portuguese, Dutch and British. They had the Royal workshops fashioning various weapons for thier courts and influential figures for some time.
I wonder if they made blades for swords, or used blades acquired from either trade or colonial entities. It seems that the production of the fine steel produced there ended largely around 13th century? Were the Arabs there colonially producing blades for weapons using the steel produced, or was that production completely defunct?

It seems that the entry of European blades into use for the now courtly type kastane must have been as discussed in 18th century, and the now elaborately hilted versions would have been less than combat worthy.
If the Kandyan kingdom remained autonomous, thier wearing of the kastane does not seem to me likely to be proscribed, and as status symbols of the type often worn by merchants and high ranking officials, court swords would seem regular accoutrements.

I just wanted to add my thoughts in this interesting discussion with probably more questions than useful observations, but its great to have such well faceted material to review in developing understanding on these.

Thank you guys!

Jim


Salaams Jim ~ Previous Forum excursions into the world of Kastane barely got off the ground, however, I think this time it is fully launched and looking very good. What is especially useful is having a forumite on the ground in Sri Lanka and I hope the thread can develop with that in support. From my side I started delving into Kastane a year or two ago but could make little headway ~ not surprisingly considering the lack of fine detail and the clouding of the issue caused by belly dancer swords/ 3 separate invaders and of course the difficulty of being off the turf... so to speak.

My point of view is clear considering the more than 20 points noted earlier (see # 55) supporting the Makara as the Kastane hilt (They are vital points proving the historical, cultural background and the absolute and overwhelming evidence of the Makara style of other Deities pouring forth onto the hilt.)

Simply put~ The Lion doesn't have other deities or beasts emanating from its mouth. Lions swallow things! they don't vomit up deities... The Makara does. In the case of the spewed out other mini Makara flowing onto the cross guard and lower knuckle guard they can be seen with peacock tails in the traditional Makara way. The little face on the knuckle guard is probably the half crocodile half human form, once again, absolutely Makara linked. (see # 56 first photo by fernando and compare it with the little face on #57 second picture by me) and of course view in #56 the other monsters that have poured forth ~

The actual head of the hilt is a direct likeness of the Makara in all respects and is of the famous mythical sea creature in all its glory.

The lion whilst it is part of the cultural and traditional history of Sri Lanka is not the beast from which the Kastana hilt is designed, though, it may have other, poignant, separate historical issues attached to it ~ as does the Elephant and the Sun and Moon theme...etc etc but it (the Lion) has no bearing at all upon the Kastane hilt.

It may seem pedantic to some, irksome to others and totally bewildering to many but the point needs clarification because in researching in the timezone of the 15th, 16th and 17th Century Sri Lanka; looking at Makara influence is a whole lot different to the detective work on Lions and the result will be skewered and off track if we make a mistake on this important identity conundrum.

I therefor submit that the Kastane Hilt is of Makara design.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Note to Forum~ For the first time I observe an authoritative note on the appearance of the Kastane (Kastahane) with a timeline.

From the web I submit the following;

Quote ''Sinhala Weapons and Armor: Adaptation in Response to European Style Warfare Weerakkody P1 and Nanayakkara A 2

The study examines the Weapons and Armor used by respectively the Sinhalese andthe Portuguese forces during the 16th and 17th
Centuries. The paper posits that the weapons of both combatants evolved in response to each other taking into account also developments abroad. The study is primarily based on observation and comparison of specimens in museums, private collections and illustrations from temple art, contemporary European art and literature.

By the time Portuguese arrived in Sri Lanka the European armies had phased out the heavy armor used by the knights and were beginning to adopt the somewhat lighter“ cuirassier” armor which was used in Sri Lanka at the earlier part of the Portuguese wars.

With the arrival of the Portuguese the Sinhala armies were faced with a heavier armored opponent who increasingly relied more on the newly emerging firearms of the period. The emergence of hand held fire arms during the early 16th century was changing the face of warfare through out the world. The adaptation of the gun by the Sinhalese and their proficiency in both use and manufacture of firearms forced the Europeans to re-adopt and played a role in the demise of heavy armor in the battlefield.

(It is more probable that the Sinhalese first adopted the gun from the Arabs than the Europeans. It is likely that there were more than one school of gun manufacture in Sri Lanka.)

The existence of molded shaped Sinhala spearheads with post apical grooving and arrow points with hardened tips suggest design adaptations which are more suited to the function as armor piercing weapons. The need for such weapons arose out the use of heavy armor during the 16th century and it is highly probable that these adaptations originated during this period.

Several new weapons including the “Patisthana” spear, “Kasthana” sword “Ath-thuwakku/Bondikula hand guns and the “Kodithuwakku” Grass hopper canon was added to the Sinhala armory during this era.

The Study also looks at the evidence for the use of body armor by the Sinhalese". Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent, references here seem to be addressing the period of the Sinhalese-Portuguese wars of 1520-21, and with the mention of kasthana sword. It does seem though that these accounts are based on 17th century writers material so we cannot be sure if the term was used contemporarily or whether it had been in place that early.
It still seems the lionhead kastane's earliest terminus ante quem remains set with the example in Tokyo acquired in 1622 embassy. Dereniyagala (1942) seems to be off in his estimation of its appearance, but is accurate in noting the courtly rather than combat effective nature of these; "...in 18th century when the curved, scimitar blade with lions head comes into fashion.
The development of the ceremonial sword of rank soon unfitted it for fighting purposes as the elaborate crest to the lion headed hilt comes into uncomfortable contact with the heel of the users hand or wrist while it is also signoficant that swords so ornamented generally appear too small for war, unlike the larger ones which have no crests" (p.113).

Kandy remained independant, while Kotte in the southwest had been in degree in league wth the Portuguese in trade until disagreements led to wars and unrest. As I understand the Dutch aligned with the King of Kandy around 1636, and by 1658 the Portuguese had left Ceylon. Naturally these colonial circumstances are described briefly and only to note presence and period.

Though the Dutch regal lion became a heraldic symbol after the Union of Utrecht in 1574, and was certainly possible as influence, I remain convinced however that the lion was well emplaced symbolically in Ceylon from quite early times, the 5th century Sigiriya (lion rock citadel) as one instance.

The French traveller Pyrad de Lavel (1605) expressed unqualified admiration of Sri Lankan workmanship in metals, and especially in the fabrication and ornamentation of arms.
Deraniyagala (op.cit.p.99) notes, "...the Dutch plan of the Royal Palace at Kandy in 1765 shows armouries for different types of weapons, and quarters for the armourers, proves the great attention paid to weapons by Sinhala royalty", further noting the auspicious placement of lions among others as decoration.
This author (p.110) describing the pihaya kattha "...in the more primitive types the pommel is unadorned, in others it is a lions head, while in the final form it is a floral scroll issuing from the lions mouth".

If I interpret these references correctly, it would seem that the Kandy workshops were long established, as noted in the Dutch observation of 1765.It would seem that the lions head was likely present on the early forms of pihaya kattha which was more an accoutrement than of course fighting weapon. We know that the kastane is presumed in form by c.1620 and the term kasthane in use for it or some type of sword c.1605. By the 18th century it had become regarded as a courtly sword ,though the smaller hanger type blade on the 1622 example in Japan and hilt suggests earlier.
The numerous examples of kastane with Dutch VOC blades suggest the circumstances in which Kandy existed within the Dutch colony in the 18th century. Many of these blades are dated, mostly 1760s it seems. The lionhead hilt would seem to have been adopted from its presence on the smaller weapons worn in courtly and status oriented examples and to the hanger blade court swords at around beginning of 17th century.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

It is difficult to locate the earliest records of the true Kasthana Swords. but my personal belief is that it is earlier than presumed. I am including an image of a Kasthana presented by Prince Tikiri leading the Sinhala army (at age 16); Who Later became King Rajasinghe I to the Arachchi of the Korathota “Angam” fighters. The Korathota warriors mounted a flanking attack on the Portuguese in the major battle in the Fields of Mulleriyawela in 1559. This Battle was a decisive Battle with one of the worst defeats to the Portuguese with near annihilation of its troops. The Sword still survives in the Family as a heirloom. and if this reference is accepted this will push the earliest record of the Kasthana to mid 16th Century. There are other similar records as well. As I mentioned before there is a proper Kasthana sword in the Colombo Museum that is believed to be of King Buwanekabahu I of Yapahuwa Kingdom which predates the Kotte and Sithawaka Kingdoms. (Though I am not convinced of the authenticity of this piece based on the portrayal of design elements which point to a later date.)

And Thank you Balushi for including the summery of my Presentation to the workshop on the “Portuguese Encounter” held in 2005.

Best regards.

[kai]

Hello Prasanna,

Thanks for posting that beauty! Any chance to obtain permission to post more pics of this sword (possibly in a seperate thread)?

It looks like the hilt is carved from wood (or horn?) with only a few metal highlights - very nice!

In a tropical climate, this state of preservation would be exceptional for an over 450y old pommel, even considering it being a heirloom piece!

Regards,
Kai

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It is difficult to locate the earliest records of the true Kasthana Swords. but my personal belief is that it is earlier than presumed. I am including an image of a Kasthana presented by Prince Tikiri leading the Sinhala army (at age 16); Who Later became King Rajasinghe I to the Arachchi of the Korathota “Angam” fighters. The Korathota warriors mounted a flanking attack on the Portuguese in the major battle in the Fields of Mulleriyawela in 1559. This Battle was a decisive Battle with one of the worst defeats to the Portuguese with near annihilation of its troops. The Sword still survives in the Family as a heirloom. and if this reference is accepted this will push the earliest record of the Kasthana to mid 16th Century. There are other similar records as well. As I mentioned before there is a proper Kasthana sword in the Colombo Museum that is believed to be of King Buwanekabahu I of Yapahuwa Kingdom which predates the Kotte and Sithawaka Kingdoms. (Though I am not convinced of the authenticity of this piece based on the portrayal of design elements which point to a later date.)

And Thank you Balushi for including the summery of my Presentation to the workshop on the “Portuguese Encounter” held in 2005.

Best regards.


Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody~ Always a pleasure to quote a decent reference... You refer to Quote ''Sinhala Weapons and Armor: Adaptation in Response to European Style Warfare Weerakkody P1 and Nanayakkara A 2 Unquote.

I also viewed your artwork website and clearly you have a vast interest in the subject. I absolutely agree that we should be looking at pre Portuguese timeline for the origin of the Kastane. The point being (as I see it) that Sri Lankan Kingdoms were not likely to adopt a foreign inspired weapon with a Sri Lankan style to it. It simply doesn't add up. Why would they do this if there was such conflict between the two?(Generally they hated the Portuguese invaders) I think the Kastana is a purely Sri Lankan invention though I disagree with the hilt design origin. I think it is from The Makara.
Where the Forum wins, however, is in having a specialist in Sri Lanka so that we may build a clearer picture of this swords history.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams~ Pictorial note to Library.
See http://www.luxury-thailand-travel.com/makara.html

Pictures below showing;
1. The Kastane Hilt.
2. A Buddhist Temple in Thailand showing " Makara." Please note the neck detail.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Hi Jim,
Good catch on the Pyrard de Laval quotation. Actually a more complete approach may be read in his integral work, where he says:

These Chingalas are very propper for mechanical arts and they work very subtly and delicately in gold, silver, iron and steel, with great perfection, in ivory and other materials. They fabricate all sort of arms, lique arquebuses, swords, pikes and bucklers, which are the more well made and esteemed in all India... I never thought they would be so exquisite in well fabricating arquebuses and other arms, elaborated and ornated, which are the nicest made around here.

We also know that, as probably already mentioned here, the city of Colombo specialized in fine matchlock muskets, which were exported to several other islands.

Attached we see pictures of three matchlock muskets ...
The first one a Portuguese-Shingalese example, still made in the XVI century, with a Portuguese barrel. Total length 170 cms.
The second one Shingalese example of great dimensions (195 cms). Dated XVII-XVIII century, it follows in all the model introduced by the Portuguese in 1505.
The third one (sorry the poor pictures) a fine Shingalese example from the XVIII century, with its typical bifurcated butt stock.

(Rainer Daehnhardt collection).

.

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Fernando,
I wanted to point out the stature of Sinhalese arms production at about the time of Portuguese arrival, and it seems that they were already fairly well established and suggestions that perhaps Chinese contact earlier may have been the source for thier production. Clearly the joint results enhanced an already well reputed craftsmanship as far as firearms in some degree.
I dont believe any influence is evident for the kastane from Portuguese or European sources, though I think that there were varying alignments between different kingdoms and them overall.

All the best,
jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Jim,
Good catch on the Pyrard de Laval quotation. Actually a more complete approach may be read in his integral work, where he says:

These Chingalas are very propper for mechanical arts and they work very subtly and delicately in gold, silver, iron and steel, with great perfection, in ivory and other materials. They fabricate all sort of arms, lique arquebuses, swords, pikes and bucklers, which are the more well made and esteemed in all India... I never thought they would be so exquisite in well fabricating arquebuses and other arms, elaborated and ornated, which are the nicest made around here.

We also know that, as probably already mentioned here, the city of Colombo specialized in fine matchlock muskets, which were exported to several other islands.

Attached we see pictures of three matchlock muskets ...
The first one a Portuguese-Shingalese example, still made in the XVI century, with a Portuguese barrel. Total length 170 cms.
The second one Shingalese example of great dimensions (195 cms). Dated XVII-XVIII century, it follows in all the model introduced by the Portuguese in 1505.
The third one (sorry the poor pictures) a fine Shingalese example from the XVIII century, with its typical bifurcated butt stock.

(Rainer Daehnhardt collection).

.


Salaams fernando~ On the face of it (excuse the pun) one would not normally expect to see a design reference similarity on a firearm and a sword~ but there it is (#66 photo 2)...on the lock the jaws and head of a Makara. In this case not breathing other serpents into the pan; but fire.
Salaams,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Kai, I will try to get a set of additional images of the sword with the permission of the owner. Hilt as you say is horn and guards all of steel with brass inlay work. There are many swords surviving specially in Buddhist and Hindu temples that are said to be weapons gifted by King Rajasinghe I post to war victories. very few of these are Kasthana, with most being captured Portuguese swords. But this may indicate the possibility of a piece surviving under protected conditions.

Thank you Balooshi for the complements.

Fernando, Great to see these guns; though there are many examples of the “Bondikula” type guns around (the last one in your collection) I have not seen any similar to the two earlier pieces. curiously the ornamentation of these does not entirely follow Sinhala traditional motifs… even the scroll work on the Makara head on the lock etc seem to be a little away from the usual form. Hope you could let know where this collection is from.

There are text references to Fire or gun powder weapons in use 1-2 centuries prior to the arrival of the Portuguese in Sri Lanka. The form of the weapon is not known and may indicate a rocket type weapon instead of a gun. In the text “Kandauru siritha” (Order of the Camp) there is a reference to a battle which commences by the simultaneous firing of 400 “Wedi” meaning Gunfire/Artillery or any weapon using Gun powder.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Kai, I will try to get a set of additional images of the sword with the permission of the owner. Hilt as you say is horn and guards all of steel with brass inlay work. There are many swords surviving specially in Buddhist and Hindu temples that are said to be weapons gifted by King Rajasinghe I post to war victories. very few of these are Kasthana, with most being captured Portuguese swords. But this may indicate the possibility of a piece surviving under protected conditions.

Thank you Balooshi for the complements.

Fernando, Great to see these guns; though there are many examples of the “Bondikula” type guns around (the last one in your collection) I have not seen any similar to the two earlier pieces. curiously the ornamentation of these does not entirely follow Sinhala traditional motifs… even the scroll work on the Makara head on the lock etc seem to be a little away from the usual form. Hope you could let know where this collection is from.

There are text references to Fire or gun powder weapons in use 1-2 centuries prior to the arrival of the Portuguese in Sri Lanka. The form of the weapon is not known and may indicate a rocket type weapon instead of a gun. In the text “Kandauru siritha” (Order of the Camp) there is a reference to a battle which commences by the simultaneous firing of 400 “Wedi” meaning Gunfire/Artillery or any weapon using Gun powder.

Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody ~ Well if the Bondikula have Makara heads on the locks which are pretty well identical to those on the hilt of the Kastane ... and reflected in the two headed axe earlier as well as every picture of Kastanes so far... does that mean we are searching for this motif (The Makara) and not the Lion ?

Fernando ~ Your excellent references pose a problem, since, it more or less indicates that Portuguese and Sri Lankan workshops were working together to produce weapons and in a definable time slot. In doing so is it not feasible that they also combined decorative techniques as shown by your fine pictures of the guns with Makara locks?

If that is indeed the case we have a pointer to the possible "combined construction" of other weapons including Kastane which is interesting (even if it does mean that we are at full circle in determining more closely the origins of that sword, though, now with a completely balanced set of parameters).

Obviously, since The Portuguese were supported by a large section of the Sri Lankan fighters (coercing mercenaries was a very major part of the Portuguese "modus opperandi" ) it is entirely possible that this craftsmanship liaison could have occurred well prior to their late 17th C dominance. Target range mid to late 16th C perhaps?

Thus we may have a time zone;the mid to late 16th C. and a specific style to search for; Incorporating The Makara Hilt through a liaison between craftsmen; Portuguese and Sri Lankan.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

... Fernando, Great to see these guns; though there are many examples of the “Bondikula” type guns around (the last one in your collection) I have not seen any similar to the two earlier pieces. curiously the ornamentation of these does not entirely follow Sinhala traditional motifs… even the scroll work on the Makara head on the lock etc seem to be a little away from the usual form. Hope you could let know where this collection is from..
As i referenced in my post, those examples belong in the collection of German/Portuguese collector and arms historian Rainer Daehnhardt. He has written a few books approaching arms and armour from the Portuguese discoveries period/route and is the person i phoned to seek information on the portuguese influences in the kaskara.

... There are text references to Fire or gun powder weapons in use 1-2 centuries prior to the arrival of the Portuguese in Sri Lanka. The form of the weapon is not known and may indicate a rocket type weapon instead of a gun. In the text “Kandauru siritha” (Order of the Camp) there is a reference to a battle which commences by the simultaneous firing of 400 “Wedi” meaning Gunfire/Artillery or any weapon using Gun powder.
Quite plausible. Not surprising if Chinese brought over 'hand gonnes' and Indians followed by Arabs provided development of fire guns in Ceilão.
Also to consider that, in the field of metalurgy, one of the earliest evidences of iron metalurgy was found in the area de Samanalawewa.
I bet you would know the work of Portuguese Captain João Ribeiro translated as The Historical Fatality of the Island of Ceylon, which memories he sent the King in 1685, where he gives account that Sinhalese war people used following arms;
Short swords of two and half palms (spans) which they called calachurros. The soldiers are Lascarins, some lancers with eighteen palms lances, some others musketeers, being rather sharp shooters; assuming these are not stone (flintlock?) but cord (matchlock?), they have spring as if they were. Others are archers and very good in that. Some bring muskets with eight palm barrels and forty pounds weight, shooting four ounce bullets. However they don't shoot them against their chest but have in the forearm two legs with one côvado (45 cms.)length ... they call these standing muskets ....

The most intriguing of these weapons is what they called calachurros, a term potentialy 'moulded' into portuguese, which i wonder if you Prasanna would familiar with, as to know its actual Sinhalese term and actual weapon model.

Just for fun a couple pictures of a beautiful Cingalo-Portuguese 'espingardão' (long gun) kept in the Metropolitan museum. Contrary to Jawa and Japan where in principle only matchlock models were copied, Goese and Sinhalese gun smiths also reproduced the so called Anselmo lock.

.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Balooshi, Use of Makara is widespread in Sinhala art and it even appears commonly in the secondary motifs in the Kasthana. But the Hilt of the Kasthana is a lion head. If you take some time and may be look at my earlier base line in differentiating the Lion, Makara and Serapendiya heads you may start seeing the subtle differences in each. I know it is not clear to someone not used to the forms used by the Sinhala artists - I too had problems with these for a long time while studying Sinhala art history. Also the Lion head appears in two primary forms with a highly modified -grotesque form with a rounded knob-like canine tooth which represent early types with links to design elements akin to the Yapahuwa Kingdom Lion (Pre-Kotte), and the latter Lion heads that are influenced by the Europeanized Lion motifs with normal teeth.

You are correct in assuming the combined workshops. The Last Sinhala throne (which is now in the Colombo Museum) is a good example. The throne was a gift to the King from the Dutch and show Both Sinhala and Europeanized motifs. The workmen guilds within the Sinhala Kingdoms would stay true to Sinhala cultural system and motifs while workshops in the areas controlled by the Portuguese and Dutch areas seem to have produces many un-usual pieces.

Fernando- sorry I missed the reference in your earlier post, but the additional info is welcome. The issue about the Calachurros is something that had intrigued me for a while. The Sinhala swords are traditionally called “Kaduwa, Kagga, , Asi, Asi-patha etc. or does it mean there were a class of weapons at the time with a separate name in use that lead to the Kasthana; which may be the basis for Calachurro. still not clear of the affinities of the term. The short two and half palm sword may refer to a Roman Gladius type weapon commonly illustrated in temple art or a Kasthana as it fits the size of most examples. In the 14th century text “Dambadeni Asna” there is a list of 26 sword types carried in to battle- 10 of these are imported swords from countries including Indian, Javanese, Malay and Chinese. Among others the Short swords are listed as “Luhundu Kadu” and Curved bladed swords as “Wak Kadu”. Kasthana is not listed. -- And thanks again for the amazing gun image.

Also to note that a paper on the possible transitional sword I mentioned earlier is published in the “Ancient Swords, Daggers and knives in the Sri Lankan Museums” book I listed at the beginning of this thread.

Regards
Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Balooshi, Use of Makara is widespread in Sinhala art and it even appears commonly in the secondary motifs in the Kasthana. But the Hilt of the Kasthana is a lion head. If you take some time and may be look at my earlier base line in differentiating the Lion, Makara and Serapendiya heads you may start seeing the subtle differences in each. I know it is not clear to someone not used to the forms used by the Sinhala artists - I too had problems with these for a long time while studying Sinhala art history. Also the Lion head appears in two primary forms with a highly modified -grotesque form with a rounded knob-like canine tooth which represent early types with links to design elements akin to the Yapahuwa Kingdom Lion (Pre-Kotte), and the latter Lion heads that are influenced by the Europeanized Lion motifs with normal teeth.

You are correct in assuming the combined workshops. The Last Sinhala throne (which is now in the Colombo Museum) is a good example. The throne was a gift to the King from the Dutch and show Both Sinhala and Europeanized motifs. The workmen guilds within the Sinhala Kingdoms would stay true to Sinhala cultural system and motifs while workshops in the areas controlled by the Portuguese and Dutch areas seem to have produces many un-usual pieces.

Fernando- sorry I missed the reference in your earlier post, but the additional info is welcome. The issue about the Calachurros is something that had intrigued me for a while. The Sinhala swords are traditionally called “Kaduwa, Kagga, , Asi, Asi-patha etc. or does it mean there were a class of weapons at the time with a separate name in use that lead to the Kasthana; which may be the basis for Calachurro. still not clear of the affinities of the term. The short two and half palm sword may refer to a Roman Gladius type weapon commonly illustrated in temple art or a Kasthana as it fits the size of most examples. In the 14th century text “Dambadeni Asna” there is a list of 26 sword types carried in to battle- 10 of these are imported swords from countries including Indian, Javanese, Malay and Chinese. Among others the Short swords are listed as “Luhundu Kadu” and Curved bladed swords as “Wak Kadu”. Kasthana is not listed. -- And thanks again for the amazing gun image.

Also to note that a paper on the possible transitional sword I mentioned earlier is published in the “Ancient Swords, Daggers and knives in the Sri Lankan Museums” book I listed at the beginning of this thread.

Regards
Prasanna


Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody ~ Thank you for the post. The difficulty I have is multi-facetted (rather like the problem).

The hilt is Makara. It breathes other deities onto the hilt in the proper manner for a Makara. These deities appear to be either Nagas (serpents/snakes) or smaller Makara and as shown by the little face which appears to be the half human half crocodile on the knuckleguard at Fernandos post at #56, once again, only released by Makara (FROM ITS MOUTH) and as seen coming from the Makara mouth at #57 photo 2; not from a Lions mouth.

The tails of the supporting other creatures appears as peacock designs and falls in line with Makara tail design... and which you agree are small Makara. These Makara deities do not emanate from lions mouths.

The Lion motif, on the other hand, can also be seen in the jaws of a Makara on architectural forms. I believe therefor that the Kastane Hilt is a Makara. Rounded or sharp teeth make no difference. It may be down to artistic impression but the form is The Mythological sea monster; Makara not Lion. See #25,39,52,62 65... etc

I use the example of the gun lock and the earlier axe plus the so far illustrated Kastane Hilts to demonstrate my observations.

It therefor transpires that research into the Kastane Makara hilt must be observed during the build up and possibly before the Portuguese position in the late 17th C.

I agree with the essential theory that there were joint workshops in those areas where Portuguese and Sri Lankan craftsmen were integrated and that in other areas pure Sri Lankan design must have prevailed.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

... Kai, I will try to get a set of additional images of the sword with the permission of the owner....
A picture showing the lower part of the guard will be so much important; to check on the presumed Portuguese influences ... you know, the lower quillons bending in a closed arch towards to the blade .

[fernando]

As i referenced in my post, those examples belong in the collection of German/Portuguese collector and arms historian Rainer Daehnhardt. He has written a few books approaching arms and armour from the Portuguese discoveries period/route and is the person i phoned to seek information on the portuguese influences in the kaskara ...
The same author that has no doubts in mentioning that the kaskara pommel is a lion. See my post #56 ... tongue, mane and all.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Balooshi, Including two images of Sinhala Lions with floral motifs emerging from the mouth. They are not Makara; as the body clearly is of a Lion not Makara.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Balooshi, Including two images of Sinhala Lions with floral motifs emerging from the mouth. They are not Makara; as the body clearly is of a Lion not Makara.

Salaams Weerakkody ~ Nice Lions. They are however not breathing Deities or monsters. The stuff coming from their mouths is floral.

Makara breath monsters... Nagas (snakes or serpents) and the half crocodile, half human form variously as seen at almost every Kastane hilt and related picture on this thread. These sub-monster-deity forms include the often portrayed minor Makara sliding down the knuckle guard and onto the finger-ring like quilons and in addition displaying fan tails of the peacock... The Peacock fantail is yet another Makara indicator. (see #56.)

Makara are shown on the gun lock jaws, the axe, and the Kastane.

I put it to you that your Lions are late additions and unrelated to the Kastane Hilt which is of Makara form. In later forms perhaps post 18th Century I imagine artistic impression may have blended the two heads on certain projects though I urge that what we ought to be focusing upon is the original style Kastane hilt ...The Makara.

As a note to Forum I point to http://www.caravanacollection.com/?project=kastane-sword (look also under Collection)where the author quite neatly describes the hilt as Makara and goes further to state the similarity of the guard with Mediterranean weapons previously not seen on Far Eastern sword styles and puts a 16th C. dateline to the mixture. I tend to agree with much of that.

Thus it is with the Portuguese/ Sri Lankan combined workshops that I focus.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Balooshi as I have noted in one of my earlier posts, the predominant Makara form in Sinhala art of the period emanates floral rather than animal motifs from its mouth. Including a few example images for reference.

Also the issue is not about the occurrence of Makara forms in the Guards etc. but the primary figure on the pommel Which is commonly accepted as a Lion head. - I cannot recollect seeing any figures portrayed on the Pommel depicted with other figures originating from its mouth except an extended tongue. If you got references to it pl. share.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Balooshi as I have noted in one of my earlier posts, the predominant Makara form in Sinhala art of the period emanates floral rather than animal motifs from its mouth. Including a few example images for reference.

Also the issue is not about the occurrence of Makara forms in the Guards etc. but the primary figure on the pommel Which is commonly accepted as a Lion head. - I cannot recollect seeing any figures portrayed on the Pommel depicted with other figures originating from its mouth except an extended tongue. If you got references to it pl. share.


Salaams Weerakkody, 3 out of 4 of your photos show Makara having spilled out the Kirtimukha monster (itself normally seen, as it is here, on all 3 photos, devouring other monsters) and usually displayed at the top of the archway designs.This has been dealt with in # 57.

The 4th picture which is more difficult to analyze appears as a grey looking Makara rolling out a huge long curled serpent with fiery decoration or waves or other minor monsters engraved on it though it is difficult to deduce.

The floral additions that accompany the emission of deities and monsters in your pictures are secondary to the main theme... The Makara spews up primarily monsters and deities. The floral tributes are as a secondary, less important, added design feature.

If the Lion were the source upon the Kastane Hilt the accompanying main theme on the hilt would be floral... Its not..It is deities and other monsters because the hilt is a Makara design. Any flowery aspect on the Hilt is purely supporting but secondary to the main theme.

The Hilt, The KnuckleGuard, The Quillons and The Cross Guard are of one linked style. The Makara head at the Pommel pumps the half crocodile human "face" onto the mid Knuckleguard and minor Makara onto the Knuckleguard top and base plus Makara and Nagas onto the Quillons and crossguard. The tails illustrated are peacock form. Some secondary, quite flimsy, floral work usually appears on the grip and /or extends down the throat.

Therefor i would advise against separating the pommel decoration from the rest of the Hilt. The theme is the same ... Makara.

Best example ~See # 56.

Makara not Lion.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13583&highlight=kastane for an unusual Knuckleguard with what appears to be a serpent(Naga) sliding up the Knuckleguard; in gold.

[fernando]

Dr. Jorge Caravana, a medical surgeon, started collecting antique arms & armour by 1998 and in 2009 he organized an exhibition in the Portuguese city of Évora. An actractive catalogue was then published, composed by the collection and vast texts covering the places touched by the Portuguese, namely an introduction by historian Rui Manuel Loureiro and thematic material like an article on Indian Weaponry Goldsmiths by Nuno Vassalo e Silva, another on Persian swordmakers by Manouchehr Khorasani and even another on Islamic Arms and Armour by Robert Elgood. Eventualy i have acquired one copy and, having posted its reference in the forum, i was required by several members to send them a copy.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11770&highlight=caravana.
The collection is composed of Oriental items associated with the Portuguese expansion during the discoveries period, a theme adviced by Collector/Historian Rainer Daehnhardt, from whim he acquired his first examples in 1998.
In the case of Ceylon, not much data is referenced and only four examples are present in the collection, being one of them an XVIII century Kastane. The description of this example includes, besides its visual details, the interpretation of its origin as a weapon, not a scholar assumption by Dr. Caravana but one more based on the classics that are published out there, which he promptly mentions below the sword support text; among others, Cameron Stone, from whom apparently he brought the pommel 'monster's head' idea and, from another (Czerny's, Rickets ?), the version of the Kastane origin being connected with European contacts in the XVI century, a presumption rather more doubtful than being an earlier sword, later suffering European (Portuguese) influences. I don't think that Dr. Caravana's third party quotations are more accountable than just that: quotations ... not personal qualified evidence.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dr. Jorge Caravana, a medical surgeon, started collecting antique arms & armour by 1998 and in 2009 he organized an exhibition in the Portuguese city of Évora. An actractive catalogue was then published, composed by the collection and vast texts covering the places touched by the Portuguese, namely an introduction by historian Rui Manuel Loureiro and thematic material like an article on Indian Weaponry Goldsmiths by Nuno Vassalo e Silva, another on Persian swordmakers by Manouchehr Khorasani and even another on Islamic Arms and Armour by Robert Elgood. Eventualy i have acquired one copy and, having posted its reference in the forum, i was required by several members to send them a copy.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11770&highlight=caravana.
The collection is composed of Oriental items associated with the Portuguese expansion during the discoveries period, a theme adviced by Collector/Historian Rainer Daehnhardt, from whim he acquired his first examples in 1998.
In the case of Ceylon, not much data is referenced and only four examples are present in the collection, being one of them an XVIII century Kastane. The description of this example includes, besides its visual details, the interpretation of its origin as a weapon, not a scholar assumption by Dr. Caravana but one more based on the classics that are published out there, which he promptly mentions below the sword support text; among others, Cameron Stone, from whom apparently he brought the pommel 'monster's head' idea and, from another (Czerny's, Rickets ?), the version of the Kastane origin being connected with European contacts in the XVI century, a presumption rather more doubtful than being an earlier sword, later suffering European (Portuguese) influences. I don't think that Dr. Caravana's third party quotations are more accountable than just that: quotations ... not personal qualified evidence.

Salaams fernando ~Excellent input. The book detail is superb.and your pictures of the gun lock and supporting Kastane photographs have been an inspiration.
Is there any documentation which can be extracted from the publication you mention which may be logged here in the interests of research? This could indeed be supporting evidence on the theory that the Kastane was a Portuguese-Sri Lankan designed sword probably 16th Century with, it seems, a Mediterranean hilt style co-staring with a Makara pommel and incorporating other deitys and monsters on the Knuckle Guard and Quillons etc.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Hi Prasanna
I (re) found something very interesting; wonder if you were already aware of this.
Sebastião Rodolfo Dalgado, a specialist who has previously published a work in Indo-Portuguese Dialect of Celyon, has published in 1919-1921 the Glossario Luso-Asiatico.

BOOK (http://books.google.pt/books?id=zOufgbY8TbsC&printsec=frontcover&hl=pt-PT&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false)

In page 178 you can read the following, which i (sort of ) translated:

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello! I've been curious about Sinhala swords... There doesn't seem to be as much information of Sri Lankan arms on this forum as there is on say Indo-Persian, European, Moro, and others. All I found were a few threads about Piha Kaetta and Kastane.

Does anyone have knowledge and/or sources on Sinhala weaponry especially swords? Anyone actually own examples?

Aside from kastane, the few images I have seen are from the angampora website which shows "urumi"-like flexible blades and also rustic looking sabers/cutlasses with simple guards and wooden cylindrical grips.

I have little to no knowledge of Sinhala swords and other weapons, so I was hoping maybe some EAA Forum members would have knowledge on this matter.

Thanks! :)

Salaams KuKulzA28 ~ I hope you find the thread interesting so far. Any input you might have would be useful... and that goes for all our Forum friends and any onlookers ~ (who I urge to join ! ) Kind Regards.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Thanks for playing the forum host, Ibrahiim; i wouldn't do it better myself !!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams ~ Note to Forum.

In order to focus on the possibility of Portuguese Sri Lankan 15th 16th and 17th Century sword making style it is possible, looking at the Kastane style, that some influence is there from the Jineta design. The apparent finger ring / turned down quillons may be a direct take off in that regard though they seem only decorative. Certainly lavish decorated quillons would add to the weapon being adopted in the role as a court sword rather than a fighting weapon. This is unclear. The problem being that blade length varied enormously.

Could some have been court sword and others weapons?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; See # 10 on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6768

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Balooshi -All images I presented (posts 76 and 78)on the Lion and Makara figures are for one purpose- to illustrate
1. Not only Makara figures are portrayed with figures emanating from their mouths.
2. In a SINHALA CONTEXT most Makara figures do emanate foliage (all images included) and is not limited to beasts.
Also I don’t think you can assess the elements purely on regional references. As with the difference in Swords; the Sinhala Motifs have its own sub culture distinct from the regional/ Indian system. All assumptions must be based on this.
..

Strangely it seems you are UNABLE to see the differences that define the “species” of beast heads that figure on the Kasthana swords. Please check definition in my post #23. for a definition which expands on format given by Ananda Kumaraswami. Your assumption “The Hilt, The KnuckleGuard, The Quillons and The Cross Guard are of one linked style” and your “advise against separating the pommel decoration from the rest of the Hilt” are in Error.

There are three common types of beasts portrayed on them. The only figure that emanates a secondary figure consistently on the Kasthana is the figure that appears at the base of the Knuckle guard. which is almost always a Makara. the figure on the opposite terminus of the cross guard also on occasion extrude a short floral extension. On some instances the terminal figure of the Knuckle guard is portrayed emanating either floral or animal forms. This figure is either of a Serapendiya or Makara design. The Quillons too can be either Serapendiya or Makara. on occasion the figures on the cross guards also consist of Serapendiya heads. It is also important to note that the Serapendiya is also figured with forms appearing from its mouth which seem not to be limited to the Makara. The Lion only appears on the pommel of the hilt and is not proper on any other part except in some weak later period swords that do not follow tradition properly. I cannot recollect seeing any Kasthana with the pommel Lion figure emanating anything from its mouth except for a simple extended tongue (consistent with lion figure in other Sinhala art forms)

Image of a possible deity on a Kasthana occurs infrequently on the outer surface of the Knuckle guard which is still not identified with certainty as yet. Godesses Sri Devi and Patthini are the most likely candidates though it may be just a figure of “Nari-latha” or a figure of a Half woman half plant form. (This is possibly a matter for a separate thread of discussion) There are no cultural elements defined as Nagas in a Sinhala context that can be associated with motifs on the Kasthana. In rare occasions figures of similar deities may be found in the ricasso as well.

Note on images in post #56
The top Kasthana originating from a latter period workshop is highly influenced by British or late Dutch (?) design. it seem to not have too much Sinhala cultural discipline. The pommel figure still carries three ruffs signifying it is a Lion head. The other figures are strange as the faces are modeled as lion heads (similar to most late period degenerate Makara forms) but without the ruffs… they do not show the distinct short proboscis that make a Makara a true Makara.

The lower figure of a Kasthana from an earlier period; for me is my period of interest in Kasthana where the source of its origin, design and real function lie. Here the pommel figure is again clearly a lion of the early period design (not of European influence) with the distinct three ruffs. The terminal figure on the extended knuckle guard is a Serapendiya while the other four figures at the base of the hilt are all Makara.


Fernando,
Always a pleasure to see your interesting posts. -thank you for sharing. In surviving traditional form there is a type of knuckle duster known as “Kala-kiringne” (I am not sure how to spell this proper; it’s a very nasal pronunciation akin to some other words with links to Portuguese descent”) The indirect association of “Kala” with death is sound- as found in “kala-thuwakku” (Cannon), “Kalama” (curses used in war) and “Kala-kiringne”etc.. Kirichchi as you say is a short stabbing dagger similar to a Kris. There is also another short dagger with a two finger grip which is sometimes attributed to Kala-kirichchi as well. I was not confident of its link to a short sword.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

The Hatan kavya text “Seethawaka Hatana” written by a warrior who was supposed to have fought in the Great Battle of Mulleriyawela include a narrative in which he refers to at least 5 chiefs who fought with Kasthana swords by name. These include Chiefs Kuruppu (of Korathota), Athulpana, Kahandawa, Weragoda and Wijeyakoon. The Mulleriyawela Battle occurred in 1559 and the text is dated circa 1585. I think this conclusively establishes the existence of Kasthana swords to mid 16th century and conforms my earlier note on the gift of a Kasthana sword to the Arachchi of the Illangama fighters Korathota (see picture above post #62). I need to re-locate my copy of “Rajasinghe Hatana” text which may provide additional reference to confirm the record :o

This also establishes the fact that Kasthana was originally used in war.

[Jim McDougall]

I think the late Anthony North said it best in his article from 1975 on a late 15th century Italian sword. In this he noted that students of arms are often faced with the dilemma in studying apparantly unrecorded types of hilts, to either cast them 'into the everlasting limbo of ethnographic material' or even worse , to dismiss as a '19th c. pastiche'.

The great thing about this thread is that we are gaining great input with outstandingly presented material concerning the nature of the ornate decoration on the kastane and what these elements represent. Rather than becoming an 'argument' it is a soundly conditioned debate, and to all of our good fortunes, most constructive. I have learned more in the remarkable material presented here than in most of the time I have studied these swords, clearly inadequately, so I am extremely appreciative.

It seems that the hilt guard configuration in the Maghrebi sa'if/nimcha swords and Italian swords of the mid to late 15th century are remarkably similar and the North African swords likely influenced by North Itallian swords rather than Spanish, according to Mr. North. In his article he also notes the comparison made by Charles Buttin between the nimcha/saif and Ceylonese kastane, though implying only superficial resemblance toward the guard system.

It would appear that the ring finger guards or quillons extending downward on developing Italian hilts were designed to protect the forefinger which was extended over the guard in Italian swordplay technique. Italian weapons and armour fashion distinctly influenced Spanish styles, though it would seem the downward projecting 'wings' on Nasrid swords of Spain may be more aligned with downward projecting guards of Persian style. In the idea that these were influenced by Jinete swords of North Africa, it is important to note that the Jinete forces by the 15th century were often supplied by Italy in weapons.
It is of course difficult to say exactly which influence may have impacted the clearly vestigial quillon grouping of the kastane, but seems likely that it is derived from some European form. Even prior to the Portuguese presence, the Arabs had long been trading in Sinhala, and the Sinhalese were probably exposed to the influences, as noted concerning the guns.

Returning to the hilt, while the lion is of course represented in both Portuguese and Dutch heraldry and symbolism, it seems that as a regal totem it had been long established in carvings, monuments, architecture and iconography in Sinhala from ancient times. It is my impression that the pommel of a sword, particularly on a highly and symbolically decorated court sword, would be considered a paramount place. The regal stature of the lion would naturally be considered for such position, while the highly revered 'supporting' creatures such as makara, would be placed in 'supporting' elements and features of the hilt .

The only instance I can imagine for variants or interpretations of the well established lionhead on the kastane would be if such examples were created by a warrior caste who had taken the 'protective' stature of the makara as a symbolic totem. The makara is seen in iconography as protective and supportive, much as warriors would be, as many occur in temples etc. in 'guarding' positions.

As noted it seems like by the 17th-18th centuries the kastane had become a courtly weapon and non combative in the Sinhalese context. The advent of firearms and artillery had significantly altered warfare there, much as elsewhere, and the swords became essentially regalia, though there were undoubtedly less opulent combat versions.

It would seem that we have opened the case for the development of the kastane into somewhat separate fields; that of the hilt configuration and guard system;the classification of the creatures in the hilt elements; and the nature of the blades, whether native produced or foreign.
Also, the case of courtly kastane forms and concurrent fighting forms as well as possible variants in the nature of the hilt decoration. Could there possibly be a regal Sinhalese form with the lion symbolically represented as well as an alternate form with a warrior rather than regal identity, with the makara as its totem?

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

The following images were kindly sent to me by Mr. Ajantha Mahanth-arachchi who is a master of a Angam school of Korathotha

This sword is believed to be gifted by King Buwanekabahu VII of Kotte Kingdom (1521-1551) to the family of an ancillary prince(?) named Range’ Bandara. His descendants are still in possession of the Kasthana shown below as well as 2 Patisthana and one “Hella” spears, an ornate kris and a deed of a gift of land written on two sheets of copper issued under the name of the King.

In addition to the references I provided in posts # 62 and #87. this will provide additional evidence to support an earlier date for existence of Kasthana swords to mid 16th Century.

(Images of kasthana and Copper plates included)


Jim
Glad to have contributed in some measure to the understanding of the Kasthana. While being far from an expert on swords, my work as an Artist/painter specializing in re-construction of Ancient Sinhala lifestyle with a main focus on Ancient Sinhala warriors I have been involved in the study of Sinhala Art history and weapons and armor for a while. I hope I am more qualified in assessing material with a better footing on Sinhala culture and traditions and Traditional art practices. And hope we could take this discussion to a good conclusion.

My interest in Kasthana is to trace its origins, the sources, evolution and the time frame. and to better define the Kasthana with a understanding of the design elements. hence my perseverance to establish the true identity of the elements of the sword.

As I noted before I do not recollect seeing any Kasthana with pommels identifiable with Makara forms. If there is any specific candidates we should share them and assess them individually to set the record straight.

[fernando]

A magnificent Cingalo-Portuguese powder horn; in principle the best known example produced in Colombo during second half XVI /first half XVII centuries. Probably made for a Cingalese Monarch or someone of high rank. The dragon body with ruby eyes is built with chiseled silver covered by with a thin perforated ivory net. The flask mouth has a human figure, possibly a Portuguese, judging by his dressing. The gunpowder pours by his head, while he is praying; this could be interpreted as he wishes the gunpowder is used for well doing. The lid is a Goruda, which releases the gunpowder by pressing its tail.
A real master piece.
.

[fernando]

A lance sceptre, symbol of power of one of Ceylon Kings. One of the most beautiful and old existing examples, dated XVI century.
It is said that, the yielding of this sceptre would be equivalent of yielding power.
The haft is composed by nineteen engraved ivory hose sections, still keeping some of its colours (red and black). Each section couples to the other with copper rings, some of them still keeping its gold coating. The lance point is of steel, with two richly elaborated balls. The butt is in ivory. Total length 177 cms.


.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Fernando thanks again for images,
Very interesting powder flask, and like you say (Cingalo-Portuguese) with significant deviations from the purely traditional Sinhala motifs. The very Crocodilian Makara is un-usual, but the most interesting is the full form Serapendiya apparently biting on to the human head at the hinge to the cap.

The workmanship on the scepter does not seem Sinhales; and if it was from here it was probably an imported item from elsewhere (Indian?).

[ashoka]

As no one has yet done so, might I politely suggest the 'Sinhalese sceptre' is actually the butt half of a rather nice Indian Lance.

[fernando]

As no one has yet done so, might I politely suggest the 'Sinhalese sceptre' is actually the butt half of a rather nice Indian Lance.
I confess i am embarrassed. Not that i made it myself that this is a whole sceptre lance, as i am quoting the text of a 1989 auction catalogue. Given that this is the lower half of a lance, all i can do is invert the picture ... and appologise for the mislead :o .

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A magnificent Cingalo-Portuguese powder horn; in principle the best known example produced in Colombo during second half XVI /first half XVII centuries. Probably made for a Cingalese Monarch or someone of high rank. The dragon body with ruby eyes is built with chiseled silver covered by with a thin perforated ivory net. The flask mouth has a human figure, possibly a Portuguese, judging by his dressing. The gunpowder pours by his head, while he is praying; this could be interpreted as he wishes the gunpowder is used for well doing. The lid is a Goruda, which releases the gunpowder by pressing its tail.
A real master piece.
.


Salaams fernando ~ Thank you for your superb pictures of..The Makara flask. This is accompanied by the usual pouring out of not only gunpowder (you will recall your gun lock which also poured out fire) but two demons... The first is a lesser makara form with a peacock tail and the second is an emerging humanoid whose face also appears on the knuckleguards of various Kastane including one of your exhibits. This is indeed the early Makara style as occasionally seen being ridden by one of the Gods.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The following images were kindly sent to me by Mr. Ajantha Mahanth-arachchi who is a master of a Angam school of Korathotha

This sword is believed to be gifted by King Buwanekabahu VII of Kotte Kingdom (1521-1551) to the family of an ancillary prince(?) named Range’ Bandara. His descendants are still in possession of the Kasthana shown below as well as 2 Patisthana and one “Hella” spears, an ornate kris and a deed of a gift of land written on two sheets of copper issued under the name of the King.

In addition to the references I provided in posts # 62 and #87. this will provide additional evidence to support an earlier date for existence of Kasthana swords to mid 16th Century.

(Images of kasthana and Copper plates included)


Jim
Glad to have contributed in some measure to the understanding of the Kasthana. While being far from an expert on swords, my work as an Artist/painter specializing in re-construction of Ancient Sinhala lifestyle with a main focus on Ancient Sinhala warriors I have been involved in the study of Sinhala Art history and weapons and armor for a while. I hope I am more qualified in assessing material with a better footing on Sinhala culture and traditions and Traditional art practices. And hope we could take this discussion to a good conclusion.

My interest in Kasthana is to trace its origins, the sources, evolution and the time frame. and to better define the Kasthana with a understanding of the design elements. hence my perseverance to establish the true identity of the elements of the sword.

As I noted before I do not recollect seeing any Kasthana with pommels identifiable with Makara forms. If there is any specific candidates we should share them and assess them individually to set the record straight.


Salaams Weerakkody, We appear to be viewing the same object via two different prisms. Every Kastane I have seen has illustrated the Makara pommel including your last picture. The key elements of other deities being distributed about the knuckle guard, quillons and half cross guard...For an identical match with your kastane and a water spout in the Makara form see #14 .
I think the colliding facts of the Makara / Lion discussion can rest with that and I note the progress already made and the fact that all parties seem to be digging in the vital timezone both pre Portuguese and during their rise to power.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Hatan kavya text “Seethawaka Hatana” written by a warrior who was supposed to have fought in the Great Battle of Mulleriyawela include a narrative in which he refers to at least 5 chiefs who fought with Kasthana swords by name. These include Chiefs Kuruppu (of Korathota), Athulpana, Kahandawa, Weragoda and Wijeyakoon. The Mulleriyawela Battle occurred in 1559 and the text is dated circa 1585. I think this conclusively establishes the existence of Kasthana swords to mid 16th century and conforms my earlier note on the gift of a Kasthana sword to the Arachchi of the Illangama fighters Korathota (see picture above post #62). I need to re-locate my copy of “Rajasinghe Hatana” text which may provide additional reference to confirm the record :o

This also establishes the fact that Kasthana was originally used in war.


Salaams~ Mulleriyawela; It is an interesting battle (or battles). The website has pictures of Kastane in various places though I have no reference on the exact existence of the weapon. If you have the details it would certainly point to the weapon being home grown though the mid to late 1500s is still in zone for Portuguese co-operation is this swords production and design. Perhaps there is another clue to its origins.

Observing the style of fighting at Mulleriyawela which was derived from a traditional Sri Lankan martial art Angampora (Illangampora being the weapons style) They certainly have single edged short swords in their armoury amongst the many weapons traditionally used. By examining their ancient system it may be possible to see an earlier date on the Kastane. It would be very interesting to see in their records if and where the Kastane appears...See Notes below.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


Notes; I have included a quote "Historical Evidences For Angam Kalawa;

MAHA WANSHAYA: This mentions about ANGAMPORA fighting which was used in the battle of king ELARA and KING DUTUGEMUNU.IT specially describes the fighting styles of GHOTAIMBARA AND THERAPUTHTHABAYA.

MAHA WANSHAYA: This mentions that king PARAKRAMABAHU enjoyed a martial art display done by his soldiers in 12th century.

CHULA WANSHAYA: This mentions that king 4 VIJAYABAHU enjoyed a fighting display of his army.

RAJAWALIYA: This mentions how KONAPPUBANDARA (1 WIMALADHARMASURIA) defeated a Portuguese swordsman by using ANGAMPORA.

MAGHA SALAKUNA KAWYA: This mentions about a fighting academy named as “AGE MADILLA” in Kandy in 15th century.

JUGAN HANDERSAN: This writer who served for Dutch in 1669 has mentioned about SRILANKAN fighters in his book on SRI LANKA.

DR.JOHN DEV: HE has mentioned about the “SUDALAIYA”CLAN and “MARUWALLIYA” CLAN who practiced ANGAMPORA.HE has specially mentioned about the deadly fights done in “URA LIDA” (Gladiator fighting arena)

H.C.P BELL: HE merely describes about a fighting clan which was started by a lady named “GALABODA KUMARIHAMI”.Then he reports about the battle of MULLERIYA".Unquote

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!:)
As I don't seem to recall any example or mention of a Kastane with a WAVY Blade in this thread, I thought I'd post these quick snaps I took when taking advantage of a 'Window Of Opportunity'.(If already given/mentioned, then my sincere apologies and enjoy anyway.)
Best,

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Hi amuk.

There are many Kasthana swords that seem to carry non-standard blades including imported ones. But in this specimen I wonder if the blade got this way through some bad blade repair effort. As you say wavy blades are not usual for Kasthana.

[fernando]

... Or someone's bizarre idea to mount a yatagan blade on a Kasthana :o :confused: .

[fernando]

A Kastane with a grip in rhino horn and chiseled silver, with a pommel in the Pia Kaeta style.

(Collection Rainer Daehnhardt)

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hullo everybody!:)
As I don't seem to recall any example or mention of a Kastane with a WAVY Blade in this thread, I thought I'd post these quick snaps I took when taking advantage of a 'Window Of Opportunity'.(If already given/mentioned, then my sincere apologies and enjoy anyway.)
Best,


Salaams Amuk Murugul ~Interesting. It looks like a bent blade...so it probably is. It also looks quite old in what I would term original form... Hilt and blade decoration are in the old style.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Fernando

Remarkable weapon. Unlike most unusual pieces that may be later modifications of True Kasthana swords, this seem to be a custom made variation on the theme. It must be noted that the workmanship is very much traditional Sinhalese as for all floral and other motifs; but curiously done away with all animal forms.

would be interesting to find out what circumstances caused the artists to make such a deviant and who commissioned it and with what reasons.

What was the reason for avoiding animal forms???

:confused:

[A.alnakkas]

Nice hilt. Possibly the animal motifs was avoided at the request of a Sinhalese Muslim owner? Or someone who wanted a change.

[fernando]

I regret not being able to contribute with some enligthening. The author/owner simply points out the hilt characteristic as a 'curiosity' :shrug: .

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

I tend to think on same lines as Alnakkas, very likely that it was for a Muslim Chief serving under the Sinhala King as the workman ship seem to be very much from a Sinhala traditional workshop.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hullo everybody!:)
As I don't seem to recall any example or mention of a Kastane with a WAVY Blade in this thread, I thought I'd post these quick snaps I took when taking advantage of a 'Window Of Opportunity'.(If already given/mentioned, then my sincere apologies and enjoy anyway.)
Best,


Salaams ~ Whilst this looks like a bent blade it may be related to blades on http://www.arms2armor.com/Swords/tulwaryatagan.htm , however, what is interesting other than the oddity factor of the blade is the old form hilt with ...a sea monster hilt ...Makara... virtually identical to the water spout and similar hilts shown earlier at # 14 # 15 # 18 etc. etc. typically pouring other deities from their mouths onto the Knuckleguard Guard and Quillons thus fulfilling their role on the sword as the traditional and ancient protector and provider of strength and battlefield prowess linked to the religion, underpinned in architecture, and held in high esteem by all.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

I know the thread author is more on the sword side, but let me show here a very interesting XVIII century Singalese matchlock pistol that i found in the Web ... don't remember precisely where :shrug:
... already with lock on the left side, as it became typical of Singalese firearms


.

[fernando]

These two splendid 'Tanegashimas' were examined by a Japanese specialist in antique arms and were confirmed to have being produced in Sakai (Japan), having being later decorated in Ceylon, one with floral motifs and the other with mother of pearl ornaments .

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Note to Forum ~ The main thrust of my research is toward understanding the Sri Lankan martial art form "Angampora" which predates the Portuguese period in an attempt to link the Kastane to an earlier date ~ I have not achieved that yet, however, I am encouraged by detail on the website http://esrilankans.com/page.do?id=25 which depicts performers of the ancient fighting style with the weapon. Pictures below show Kastane Hilts depicting the Makara style on two weapons used by that martial system.

This indicates two things...1. It was a weapon and 2. If it was a true martial artists weapon the chances are that it originates in Sri Lankan history from ancient times. Angampora goes back at least 700 years before the Portuguese.

The last of the Angampora gurus existed during the Kandyan kingdom. The martial art, that had withstood the test of time, faced its biggest challenge during this era. The British, two years after capturing Kandy and gaining control over the entire island, passed a law to ban Angampora in 1817. The punishment was brutal ~ Shot below the knees.

Could this be one of the major reasons why this weapon has a clouded history?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams~ Note to Forum~ The reader may be aware of an undercurrent of facts pertaining to the Arabs of Sri Lanka known as Sri Lankan Moors and who appeared as trader immigrants in the murky, distant past. It has been suggested that short curved swords were introduced by them though whilst they may have added weapons of that nature I have no reason to believe they were in any way involved in Kastane design but it is an interesting side note. They appeared thus in an article from http://salamlanka.blogspot.com/2010/06/sri-lankan-moors-misconceptions.html

Quote ''Alexander Johnston has recorded that: …the first Muslims who settled in the country, were, according to the tradition which prevails among their descendants, a portion of those Arabs of the House of Hashim who were driven from Arabia in the early part of the eighth century by the Umayyad Caliph Abd-al Malik bin Marwan, and who proceeding from the Euphrates southward, established settlements in the Concan, the southern parts of the Indian peninsula, Sri Lanka and Malacca. He adds that the division of them that came to Sri Lanka formed eight considerable settlements.”Unquote.


From the same article I Quote "Similar sentiments have been expressed by other historians of the country including Dr. Lorna Dewaraja in "The Muslims of Sri Lanka, 1000 years of ethnic harmony 900-1915 AD", Dr. M I M Shukri and Professor K M De Silva".Unquote.

Another excellent description covering the Moros of Sri Lanka is at http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/srilanka.htm

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~Note to Forum~ Please check the Forum reference below for some superb pictures of Kastane in the Wallace Collection. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12134&page=1&pp=30&highlight=indian+armour

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Note to Library. Instead of searching among the martial weaponry it dawned on me that a far more accurate method of backtracking would be to focus for example upon ancient Buddhist ritual items. If a link could be established on a style/design of artefact from deep historical religious linkages to that of the Kastane then a lot could be revealed.

Forum is thus advised that a breakthrough has been observed between such a linkage and a report follows at next post. :) :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Note to Library. Instead of searching among the martial weaponry it dawned on me that a far more accurate method of backtracking would be to focus for example upon ancient Buddhist ritual items. If a link could be established on a style/design of artefact from deep historical religious linkages to that of the Kastane then a lot could be revealed.

Forum is thus advised that a breakthrough has been observed between such a linkage and a report follows here. :) :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


Salaams All ~ Proving a Kastane design link to an ancient Tibettan Buddhist weapon/ritual item would place the Kastane sword style well before the European appearance in Sri Lanka. That link comes in the shape of a Tibettan ritual chopping and stabbing tool displaying two Makara with the usual accompanying demon snakes or Nagas emanating down the shaft of the weapon onto the curious knotted crown like structures. In this case there are 4; creating a 3 dimensional quillon format on both the spear and chopping end.

As I have maintained from the outset the Kastane hilt (hilt guard knuckleguard and quillons) this concerns monsters "related directly" to the Makara and underpins my hypothesis that the Hilt of the Kastane is formed from the Makara serpent with Nagas (and other monsters flowing onto the knuckleguard, guard and apparent quillons) See # 56 first picture and compare the item below. The basis of the design is Makara and supporting serpents... Not of the Lion.

The first question is..When did Buddhism arrive in Sri Lanka? Wiki encyclopeadia states "According to traditional Sri Lankan chronicles (such as the Dipavamsa), Buddhism was introduced into Sri Lanka in the 4th century BCE by Venerable Mahinda, the son of the Emperor Ashoka, during the reign of Sri Lanka's King Devanampiya Tissa. During this time, a sapling of the Bodhi Tree was brought to Sri Lanka and the first monasteries were established under the sponsorship of the Sri Lankan king. The Pali Canon, having previously been preserved as an oral tradition, was first committed to writing in Sri Lanka around 30 BCE".

The second question, though, equally vital is ...Are the quillons actually Quillons or simply two dimensional representation of the Buddhist form shown by my ritual item below? It is interesting that the so called "quillons" of the Kastane do not seem to have a practical purpose since they are too small to stick ones finger into and too decorative to be of much practical use and occur on short weapons which don't seem to need quillons per se? The fact that they look like quillons does not mean that they are ~ in this case ~ though in the longer blades perhaps they work more effectively as such. My point is that it is purely coincidental that the "quillon like" structure exists on the Kastane.

In illustrating the Tibettan weapon ritual item as a double weapon spike and axe I add to the already formidable number of weapons portraying Makara etc This array of weapon examples now includes cannon and gun barrel mouths, gun locks, powder flasks, axes, swords, (short and long) daggers and the spike head and axe cutter below.

In conclusion I submit that the Kastane is an original Sri Lankan pre European design inspired by an ancient Buddhist form rooted in history and with its foundations built from the Makara and supporting demons as illustrated by the Tibettan object below. My hypothesis includes the fact that the Kastane has "apparent quillons" but which are actually not quillons but designs from the ancient Buddhist religion which simply go hand in hand with the Makara and supporting demons. When shown with a rainguard extending down the throat the design there-on is often reminiscent of peacock feathering for which the Makara is famous.

Whilst the Portuguese and or others may have been involved in workshops production of the Kastane jointly with some Sri Lankan cooperation they were not the designers neither were the Moors. This is a thoroughbred Sri Lankan sword. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note: Item is 2 feet long, heavy, of brass coated in either tin or low silver compound.

[Amuk Murugul]

..... ancient Buddhist religion which simply go hand in hand with the Makara and supporting demons. When shown with a rainguard extending down the throat the design there-on is often reminiscent of peacock feathering for which the Makara is famous.

Whilst the Portuguese and or others may have been involved in workshops production of the Kastane jointly with some Sri Lankan cooperation they were not the designers neither were the Moors. This is a thoroughbred Sri Lankan sword...

As.Wr.Wb. Ibrahiim al Bailooshi,

May I simply applaud you for formulating and making your submission. May I also make the following addendum:
The Makara is an ancient Indian symbol of power, adopted by early Buddhism.
It is a composite creature which conveys the attributes of a crocodile; the jaw of a crocodile, the trunk of an elephant, the upper tusks and ears of a wild boar, the eyes of a monkey, the body and scales of a fish and the tail feathers of a peacock. To date, it has undergone evolutionary change in appearance, especially in areas where it has been adopted and adapted, acquiring such things as lion's head,fish gills, dragon talons etc.

Wass.

[VANDOO]

CONGRADULATIONS IT IS THE BEST THEORY I HAVE HEARD UP UNTIL NOW AND MAKES IT LIKELY THE DESIGN PREDATES THE ARRIVAL OF THE PORTUGESE. THE ORIGINAL WEAPON MAY HAVE LITTLE RESEMBLENCE TO TODAYS HIGHLY DECORATIVE SWORDS BUT THE BUDHIST INFLUENCE WAS SURLEY ITS DECORATIVE START. :D

[ariel]

Very clever and very original!
So, in fact, your hypothesis postulates that the "quillons" on Kastane are a modification of the Buddhist Vajra, no? My hesitation is that Vajra conveyed a very different religious message from Makara, and Makara, as you said, is so ubiquitous in South Indian weapon decoration that its mere presence is not unexpected.
Are there any similar Sri Lankan weapons pre-dating the arrival of the Portugese?

I love your hypothesis and a finding of such an example would be a strong argument in favor of it.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

As.Wr.Wb. Ibrahiim al Bailooshi,

May I simply applaud you for formulating and making your submission. May I also make the following addendum:
The Makara is an ancient Indian symbol of power, adopted by early Buddhism.
It is a composite creature which conveys the attributes of a crocodile; the jaw of a crocodile, the trunk of an elephant, the upper tusks and ears of a wild boar, the eyes of a monkey, the body and scales of a fish and the tail feathers of a peacock. To date, it has undergone evolutionary change in appearance, especially in areas where it has been adopted and adapted, acquiring such things as lion's head,fish gills, dragon talons etc.

Wass.


Salaams Amuk Murugul ~ Thank you for that note of confidence and support along with the Indian provenance...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

CONGRADULATIONS IT IS THE BEST THEORY I HAVE HEARD UP UNTIL NOW AND MAKES IT LIKELY THE DESIGN PREDATES THE ARRIVAL OF THE PORTUGESE. THE ORIGINAL WEAPON MAY HAVE LITTLE RESEMBLENCE TO TODAYS HIGHLY DECORATIVE SWORDS BUT THE BUDHIST INFLUENCE WAS SURLEY ITS DECORATIVE START. :D


Salaams VANDOO ~ Thank you for the very encouraging words.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Very clever and very original!
So, in fact, your hypothesis postulates that the "quillons" on Kastane are a modification of the Buddhist Vajra, no? My hesitation is that Vajra conveyed a very different religious message from Makara, and Makara, as you said, is so ubiquitous in South Indian weapon decoration that its mere presence is not unexpected.
Are there any similar Sri Lankan weapons pre-dating the arrival of the Portugese?

I love your hypothesis and a finding of such an example would be a strong argument in favor of it.

Salaams Ariel, Ya precisely. Its true the Vajra wasn't an area I had expected to find a link but there it is on the ritual Buddhist tool/weapon with the supporting demons sliding down the projections... as they do on the Kastane. Insofar as other weapons pre Portuguese I suspect there are some older Kastane in that bracket and axes seen earlier in the thread as well as accoutrements as I mentioned.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Well, you might be onto something:-)
I went to Wiki ( British Encyclopedia of the 21st century:-) and looked for Vajdrayana and Makara. Indeed, there is a connection between them. The Vajdrayana weaponry have a common motive of "emerging from the mouth of crocodile".
Not bad, man, not bad :-)
I am slowly inching toward your side. Now, an old example would definitely win me over.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well, you might be onto something:-)
I went to Wiki ( British Encyclopedia of the 21st century:-) and looked for Vajdrayana and Makara. Indeed, there is a connection between them. The Vajdrayana weaponry have a common motive of "emerging from the mouth of crocodile".
Not bad, man, not bad :-)
I am slowly inching toward your side. Now, an old example would definitely win me over.


Salaams ariel~ Yes I needed to do a full in depth crash course into all of that !! The historical detail is immense. The interesting thing is I would never have twigged that this was indeed the case about the Buddhist linkage had I not stumbled onto the recent thread by Shimaal on a strange cutter device and the post by Jim; see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16451

What is further puzzling is displayed at #15 of this thread which is an axe from Sri Lanka with what appear to be quillons (similar to the Kastane quillons) turned the wrong way. This looks like an ancient form of weapon and supports somewhat my theory not only because of its probable age but because it interprets the quillon format simply as a design so perhaps the Kastane does that also?

I believe the Makara and supporting monsters shown having teamed from its mouth onto the Knuckleguard in the half human faced style and others onto the cross guard and apparent "Quillons" are the foundation of the hypothesis and are obvious when inspecting the many Kastane on this thread. Where I think the "game set and match" point is won is on linking the structure to the Buddhist artefact which therefor predates the Europeans in the Indian Ocean by hundreds of years.

The Lions share of this discovery, however, goes to Forum !!

Thanks for your kind support.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

The assumption presented need to be qualified on a couple of aspects. there are three main sects of Buddhism. Sri Lankan Buddhism belongs primarily to the “Heenayana”sect Though “Mahayana” also existed for many centuries along with Heenayana it was in decline and almost extinct in Sri Lanka at the time in question. The “Vajrayana” Sect to which the ritual weapon illustrated belongs never made a foot hold in Sri Lanka.

While I confess I know not enough of Tibetan Vajrayana Tantric traditions and Iconography, the Vajra being the Thunderbolt or lightening weapon as far as I know always contain either 3 or more prongs. I have never seen a two pronged Vajra at which point it may lose its character as a Vajra.

Though the Vajra as a symbol is used by Hindu and rarely in Mahayana Buddhist figures and several proper Vajra relicts and depictions are found in Sri Lankan collections which again have their roots in Hindu and Mahayana traditions, the Vajra combined ritual objects or practices (for which the ritual knife in the image belongs to) are un-known here.

The ”axe” in # 15 is not Sinhalese.

There is no doubt that almost all early Sinhala arts were influenced by Buddhist and also Hindu cultural values and icons but I feel that the Vajra is a rather unlikely candidate as its general iconic use is very rare in Sinhala art.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The assumption presented need to be qualified on a couple of aspects. there are three main sects of Buddhism. Sri Lankan Buddhism belongs primarily to the “Heenayana”sect Though “Mahayana” also existed for many centuries along with Heenayana it was in decline and almost extinct in Sri Lanka at the time in question. The “Vajrayana” Sect to which the ritual weapon illustrated belongs never made a foot hold in Sri Lanka.

While I confess I know not enough of Tibetan Vajrayana Tantric traditions and Iconography, the Vajra being the Thunderbolt or lightening weapon as far as I know always contain either 3 or more prongs. I have never seen a two pronged Vajra at which point it may lose its character as a Vajra.

Though the Vajra as a symbol is used by Hindu and rarely in Mahayana Buddhist figures and several proper Vajra relicts and depictions are found in Sri Lankan collections which again have their roots in Hindu and Mahayana traditions, the Vajra combined ritual objects or practices (for which the ritual knife in the image belongs to) are un-known here.

The ”axe” in # 15 is not Sinhalese.

There is no doubt that almost all early Sinhala arts were influenced by Buddhist and also Hindu cultural values and icons but I feel that the Vajra is a rather unlikely candidate as its general iconic use is very rare in Sinhala art.


Salaams Weerakkody ~ The highly respected ancient religions of Buddhism and Hinduism have spread and difused across the region of which Sri Lanka was and is part. We are observing several thousand years of impact on the socio-political and of course the religious theme. Influence has spread and modified and as the view of the Makara blurrs slightly around the edges so too do the associated symbols, accompanying demons and supporting design structures. Through the thousands of years of such blending there is, however, a main theme central to the Makara hilt concept which is, as I have illustrated, the hand-in-hand appearance of other deities both on the knuckleguard, guard and "so called" quillons. The supporting evidence of Buddhist influence indicates the link, thus, pushing the Kastane design beyond the Portuguese appearance.

The proof therefor emerges showing the Kastane as a purebred Sri Lankan weapon whilst not ruling out Portuguese or other nationalities co-operation in joint production in retrospect. i.e. They liked it ~ they made more in joint workshops later.

Worth noting is the likelihood that the highly decorative, Buddhist influenced "so called" Quillons whilst having confused the issue for us now, actually enhanced its use as a court sword then. The point about the quillons is there appearance as strikingly similar to the Tibetan item and association with the Makara. A broader, wider look at the timeframe is advised since, though, there may have been a declining influence in the 15/16th century, by viewing a more expanded timeline the situation fuses more suitably in line with the theory. The question as to when the weapon actually appeared may also be examined.

The opportunity does not avail me to consider the important role of the national fighting art of Sri Lanka (http://www.angampora.info/) since I am not there on the ground, however, I believe a parallel result may be possible from studying the pre European period and how Kastane was (or was not) employed in that fight form. Pointers indicate the weapons use earlier than 15thC from sources on the web but being on the ground facts would be easier to discover. It seems obvious to me that a martial system that was put in place to protect Buddhism would have within its deeply religious coding the evidence we are seeking. It would not surprise me to learn that the ancient system had adopted a certain weapon such as the Kastane as its primary defensive sword and when considering the Buddhist evidence now outlined perhaps someone in Sri Lanka can have a look at that..?

In conclusion; After relating the considerable evidence and the clear link with the ancient religious icons and deities, in particular; The Makara and its supporting structures and considering the hypothesis concerning the details at #115, I concluded that The Kasthane is a Sri Lankan weapon predating Portuguese and other European and Arab influence, thus, it is a purebred Sri Lankan weapon with a Makara hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

Note; I threw in the axe as an example though I am happy to throw it out again becaause whilst it is an example of curious, opposite facing, decorated monster, quillon type structures it's not actually Sri Lankan but Malay / Indian of Buddhist influence.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~Note to Forum~Ground breaking detail.

Historical evidence now exists of the origin of the word Kastane from a foreign word introduced to the West from a structure common in Sri Lanka in the 16th Century. I shall address this in my next post. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[fernando]

Salaams all~Note to Forum~Ground breaking detail.

Historical evidence now exists of the origin of the word Kastane from a foreign word introduced to the West from a structure common in Sri Lanka in the 16th Century. I shall address this in my next post. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Olá Ibrahiim,
How soon your next post will be? ;)

[VANDOO]

IF THE DESIGN FOR THE KASTANCE HILT AND QUILLIONS EVOLVED FROM THESE BUDHIST RITUAL OBJECTS THEN IT IS NOT JUST DECORATIVE IN NATURE. IT MAY BRING THE SAME SPIRITUAL PROTECTION AGAINS EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH SO IT COULD BE A FUSION OF SPIRITUAL WEAPON AND ACTUAL SWORD. THIS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IN COURT AS A INEFFECTIVE PHYSICAL WEAPON COULD BE ALLOWED BECAUSE MUCH SUPERIOR WEAPONS WERE PRESENT WITH THE GAURDS TO PROTECT THE RULERS. THE SYMBOLS ON THE HANDLE WOULD THEN PROTECT THE WEARER FROM EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH ( THERE ARE ALWAYS PLENTY OF EVIL SPIRITS IN PLACES OF POWER :eek: ).
JUST MY THOUGHTS AND CONJECTURE BUT PERHAPS A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION MAY BE FOUND SEARCHING IN THAT DIRECTION. :D

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

IF THE DESIGN FOR THE KASTANCE HILT AND QUILLIONS EVOLVED FROM THESE BUDHIST RITUAL OBJECTS THEN IT IS NOT JUST DECORATIVE IN NATURE. IT MAY BRING THE SAME SPIRITUAL PROTECTION AGAINS EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH SO IT COULD BE A FUSION OF SPIRITUAL WEAPON AND ACTUAL SWORD. THIS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IN COURT AS A INEFFECTIVE PHYSICAL WEAPON COULD BE ALLOWED BECAUSE MUCH SUPERIOR WEAPONS WERE PRESENT WITH THE GAURDS TO PROTECT THE RULERS. THE SYMBOLS ON THE HANDLE WOULD THEN PROTECT THE WEARER FROM EVIL SPIRITS AND SUCH ( THERE ARE ALWAYS PLENTY OF EVIL SPIRITS IN PLACES OF POWER :eek: ).
JUST MY THOUGHTS AND CONJECTURE BUT PERHAPS A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION MAY BE FOUND SEARCHING IN THAT DIRECTION. :D

Salaams VANDOO, Agreed. My point is that this weapon originated as a defender of the faith (Buddhism) and naturally with sword in hand surrounded about the Makara hilt by Makara and other supporting Buddhist Icons the weilding soldier is thus enhanced with all things religious and holy. It remains to be disclosed in my next missive where the missing piece of the jigsaw (or one of them) that of the terminology and the quandry of what's in a name...? Which I shall concoct in a few hours ~ I have to say however that running into the entire Hindu and Buddhist equation is no simple matter and from a cold start it has been all uphill.

Thanks for the idea for research along those lines... and for me one other idea was to research the Martial Arts angle for which it would be vital to be in Sri Lanka. I noted earlier that the Sri Lankan martial art Angopora is thousands of years old and it looks like they used Kastana. Interestingly it would need to be called something else prior to the European appearance since the word appears to be largely Portuguese.. more on that in a few hours. :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Olá Ibrahiim,
How soon your next post will be? ;)


Salaams fernando and all ~ My reference (as well as the Forum library) is Indian Art by Roy C Craven ~ World of Art Series~ Thames and Hudson. ISBN 0-500-20146-3.

The time line is vast; Hinduism is more than 4000 years old whilst Buddhism started inbetween 566 and 486 BC. The arrival of the Portuguese and their influence upon Sri Lanka started in the 1500s. Therefor there is a quantum jump between the vast timescales but that is what makes this so interesting a roller coaster.

On page 29 of Reference Professor Craven points out that the Aryans in 1500 BC had settled in Northern India and thus began the culture amalgamation of the Vedic style with that of the vanquished dark skinned Dravidians. After gradually intermarrying and consolidation the Aryans spread South Eastwards from their initial conquests of the Indus Valley and the Punjab taking the Ganges and Jumna rivers plains ~ an area called the Doab....

They brought with them a concept of religion based on sacrifice to Deities which mirrored the forces of nature. Their social structure emanating from their religion was essentially heirarcical and is better known now as the caste system. The word itself (caste) comes from the Portuguese word castas but was first used in the 16th Century. The Aryans actually used a different word Varna; meaning colour.

I intend to show that the word for Caste "Castas" was the word root which inspired the term Castane but first a word on the Sri Lankan Caste System~

Whereas the Indian system was quite brutal the Sri Lankan version was not. It was mild by comparison but one thing is obvious in tracing the craftsmen of the island and their sects or castes which were quite strict; Goldsmiths, silversmiths swordsmiths, precious stone polishers, diamond cutters, rhino hilt makers, coppersmiths, engravers, furnace operators, bladesmiths, scabbard decorators, leatherworkers, woodworkers and labourers all belonged to different Castes and as such can be thought of as Guilds..

More than a dozen Castes were employed to make the Castane and I believe it is this that drew the name Castas as the original Portuguese word for this sword. In honour of the many guilds(Castes) of crafsmen employed in its making.

180 Degree Turn ! If this is in fact the case my entire hypothesis of the Castane being a purebred Sri Lankan sword pre the Portuguese appearance flies out the window now.

The problems with the pre Portuguese idea are:

1. No Castane, pre-Portuguese, exists in any museum or on any drawing, painting or sculpture in any medium; wood, metal or stone in itself very strange since stone freize panels depict so much historical content and an important sword like that would be sure to be included.

2. No Castane existed under that name before the Portuguese influence since it was a word given by them to the Sri Lankans.

3. It would be highly unlikely that a respected Buddhist sword would be re named by an incoming invader, raider, occupier especially one with an entirely different religious structure. A renamed sword of that style would surely be recorded but there is no trace.

I now conclude that the real reason is because pre the Portuguese period no such sword existed in Sri Lanka...we have been chasing shadows. :)

My second but fresh hypothesis thus reads ~

The Castane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and cutlass fashion popular in Mediterranean forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115).

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[fernando]

Olá Ibrahiim,
Evidence of the origin of the term caste and the assumption that there aren't any recorded kastanes before Portuguese arrival is one thing ... and the appearing of the sword and its given name as a result of Portuguese influence, is another.
... A missing link that you now well call hypothesis... a fresh one.
But then, entering the field of hypotheses, why not give a chance to that of the down curved quillons being a remnant of Portuguese swords characteristics ? Not to speak of that of the term Kastane deriving from Katana, the Japanese sword that appeared in the XIV century and which name was incorporated in the Portuguese language in the XVI century, after their arrival in Japan. We know that, once the term became (also) portuguese, was widely used in other continents and applied in a general sense to various types of edged weapons. Why then not possible that this was the way the Kastane got its name ... either given by Portuguese or even Cingalese ?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Olá Ibrahiim,
Evidence of the origin of the term caste and the assumption that there aren't any recorded kastanes before Portuguese arrival is one thing ... and the appearing of the sword and its given name as a result of Portuguese influence, is another.
... A missing link that you now well call hypothesis... a fresh one.
But then, entering the field of hypotheses, why not give a chance to that of the down curved quillons being a remnant of Portuguese swords characteristics ? Not to speak of that of the term Kastane deriving from Katana, the Japanese sword that appeared in the XIV century and which name was incorporated in the Portuguese language in the XVI century, after their arrival in Japan. We know that, once the term became (also) portuguese, was widely used in other continents and applied in a general sense to various types of edged weapons. Why then not possible that this was the way the Kastane got its name ... either given by Portuguese or even Cingalese ?


Salaams fernando ~ I agree entirely with your first paragraph and suggest that it is vital to the new hypothesis..Your paragraph 2 is also astute...I am indeed saying that the influence is from the Jinetta turned down quillon style but supplanted rather by the Buddhist emblems Nagas or minor Deities and a style taken directly from #115; The Tibettan connection.

The point about Japanese influence is one I have thought of only on passing..It's perhaps a bit of a stretch...and probably falls into the general area of "whats in a word"? Its a bit thin but at the same time thoroughly interesting; Kastane, Kattara, Katana, Kattar? Conversely I must say that the Jinnetta link now becomes stronger and that Portuguese-Sri Lankan cooperation in weapons manufacture may hold the key. When I mentioned Mediterranean influence I meant Portuguese as below...


The Castane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115).

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Well, as I said earlier, finding of a pre-Portugese Kastane was the absolutely-required piece of evidence. If there is no such example in existence, we are back to the drawing board...

Another example of the great tragedy of science: a beautiful Hypothesis slain by an ugly Fact:-)


Ibrahim, keep searching: it is not always revealing, but it is a lot of fun!

Be well and prosper, my friend!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well, as I said earlier, finding of a pre-Portugese Kastane was the absolutely-required piece of evidence. If there is no such example in existence, we are back to the drawing board...

Another example of the great tragedy of science: a beautiful Hypothesis slain by an ugly Fact:-)


Ibrahim, keep searching: it is not always revealing, but it is a lot of fun!

Be well and prosper, my friend!


Salaams Ariel ~ Well yes and no. :) My first hypothesis is outweighed by the fact that, as you say, there is no evidence to support a pre Portuguese Kastane ... but there is a load of it supporting their involvement in naming the weapon and being involved in weapons production with the Sri Lankan masters after they set foot on the Island. I therefor supplant my first effort with a more proven logical and sound re appraisal as;

The Castane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and *cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115).

*I will stick with that for now and add that the reason for the inclusion of the words cutlass fashion is to net in the similar curved short Nimcha style (and assuming a cutlass action of a short ships sword).

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[fernando]

...The point about Japanese influence is one I have thought of only on passing..It's perhaps a bit of a stretch... The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons (as at #115). ...
Talking of (quoting you) a bit of stretch; i would consider such fusion thesis also a long shot. Would rather bet in one "one or another" influence.
And by the way, i wouldn’t include the jineta in this championship. This wouldn’t be the origin for the (false) quillons on the Kastane. Such sword already had its characteristic form when the Nasrid brought it to Al Andaluz by the XIII century; their fallen “arriaces” were born like that and would be nothing but a decor, or in the least with no practical use . Neither could we call it Portuguese or Spanish, although it became later christianized, with its production ceasing in Toledo by the XV century. Whether its consequent variants were the reason for the appearing of the actual (finger) defense quillons is another issue; but the sword that was brought by (Portuguese) navigators to Ceylon had actual functional ample curved quillons, those to protect fingers holding the ricasso which, according to some opinion sources, were ‘shrunk’ by Cingalese smiths in their sword (Kastane) models, as not intended for their fencing (handling) techniques.
But don't take my perspective in such worthwhile position; i am just trying to help maintaining the (hypo)thesis contradictory ;) .


.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Talking of (quoting you) a bit of stretch; i would consider such fusion thesis also a long shot. Would rather bet in one "one or another" influence.
And by the way, i wouldn’t include the jineta in this championship. This wouldn’t be the origin for the (false) quillons on the Kastane. Such sword already had its characteristic form when the Nasrid brought it to Al Andaluz by the XIII century; their fallen “arriaces” were born like that and would be nothing but a decor, or in the least with no practical use . Neither could we call it Portuguese or Spanish, although it became later christianized, with its production ceasing in Toledo by the XV century. Whether its consequent variants were the reason for the appearing of the actual (finger) defense quillons is another issue; but the sword that was brought by (Portuguese) navigators to Ceylon had actual functional ample curved quillons, those to protect fingers holding the ricasso which, according to some opinion sources, were ‘shrunk’ by Cingalese smiths in their sword (Kastane) models, as not intended for their fencing (handling) techniques.
But don't take my perspective in such worthwhile position; i am just trying to help maintaining the (hypo)thesis contradictory ;) .


.

Salaams Fernando. Your picture is an excellent illustration of what I feel is, in part, the origin of species concerning the design of the Kastane. The Quillons however on the Kastane are more a take off from the ritual Tibettan item. The hilt is purely Buddhist. Thus the blended style.

I don't believe they are actually Quillons but in the likeness of Quillons, though, actually from the Vajra item; #115.

There is simply no evidence of a pre Portuguese Kastane in Sri Lanka..What appears as highly probable is Portuguese battleships rolling up with artisans and weapon masters on board and a liaison between the Sri Lankan Royal Households combining both weapons into the Kastane; fusing two styles viz;

The Buddhist influenced Makara hilt, Knuckle Guard, Guard and "Quillons" (so called) and the Portuguese sword style thus became blended.

We know that liaison took place in weapons workshops because your own picture earlier of the Makara or Naga on the locks of the long guns; #66 second photo.

In terms of other Eastern influence; No evidence presents itself in terms of Japanese/Portuguese influence. The weapons are completely different.

In terms of wording; The two closest words relating to Kastane are Castao and Castas. Castao meaning stick is surely a non starter since how can a precious stone encrusted, hugely rare, gilded and silver engraved masterpiece be simply called a stick? Logic seems to point to the richer more understandable conclusion that Castas (master crafted) is more likely. I have illustrated the link between Caste and Guilds of Master craftsmen previously.

My hypothesis stands, though, broadly enhanced with your superb photo.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

Note; For excellent pictures of Kastane see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12134&page=1&pp=30

[fernando]

Olá Ibrahiim,
You will pardon my imaturity in these things, as i am not sure if i understand the way you wish to put things.
... even though i dare dropping a couple notes:

Castão is not a crude stick but the knob/handle of a stick when its ornamentation is implicit. One used to see them "encastoados" with ivory, gems and rare metals out there. The word is not portuguese (latin), but of German originated, later transited to old french, from where it was adopted to portuguese language.

I am a bit puzzled in that you seem to rapidly put in the same basket the Islamic concept of the Gineta with the Budhist pattern that you pretend to be the provenance of the Kastane false quillons.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Olá Ibrahiim,
You will pardon my imaturity in these things, as i am not sure if i understand the way you wish to put things.
... even though i dare dropping a couple notes:

Castão is not a crude stick but the knob/handle of a stick when its ornamentation is implicit. One used to see them "encastoados" with ivory, gems and rare metals out there. The word is not portuguese (latin), but of German originated, later transited to old french, from where it was adopted to portuguese language.

I am a bit puzzled in that you seem to rapidly put in the same basket the Islamic concept of the Gineta with the Budhist pattern that you pretend to be the provenance of the Kastane false quillons.


Salaams Fernando~ Very interesting. Thank you for your clarification on the stick word Castão which I thought just meant "stick" Now with that information it certainly poses the question was the original word from that and not Castas? What we do know is that the Portuguese word Castas was the word applied to the Indian Caste system and that was the line up I applied etc etc... however, looking for the word root is as you well know a hazard worth avoiding...What is important is the fact that no evidence appears pre Portuguese involvement in Sri Lanka of the Kastane.

Your second point about Islamic and Buddhist mixed style of hilt is equally evasive of a straight answer since an equally styled type of sword coming down from the Indian style line could also be responsible for the essence of the decorative layout... take for example the Tulvar with quillons and knuckleguard...A clever designer using the Buddhist style could come up with a Kastane design from that...Equally a re-hash of the Zanzibari Nimcha with Buddhist decorated hilt would produce a Kastane just as easily.

However, that is not the point. Focus is upon the Portuguese/Sri Lankan form and the time of the Portuguese. It was they who named the weapon and since no Kastane is evidenced prior to their arrival logic points to their involvement and because of the Buddhist influence the inclusion of the Buddhist Iconic hilt is a clear indicator of Sri Lankan cooperation.

Naturally there is another supposition that the Sri Lankans designed it with no cooperation with anyone but coincidentally at the same time as the arrival of the Portuguese... and that the word Kastane is in fact a Sri Lankan word or concoction that we have no evidence of... lost in time...or that once it was produced it suddenly adopted a Portuguese name. Hardly a researchable topic.

Eyesight also tells us that the hilt and scabbard design are Sri Lankan although the timeline indicates cooperation in weapons design with the Portuguese since they were also making guns together..

Of course you may be quite right about the "Quillon" situation being perhaps totally nothing to do with the Ginetta. In fact, my previous thoughts were that they weren't quillons but simply a reflection of the deities on the Vajra item, therefor, I don't disagree but it alters not my hypothesis neither does the too-and-fro with the "whats in a word conundrum" ~ though it is interesting.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

Note~ Reproduced here is my carefully worded Hypothesis for perusal.

"The Kastane, named so by the Portuguese, was introduced designed and built with Portuguese collaboration in Royal workshops in Sri Lanka in the late 1500/early1600s... and variously afterwards for many centuries. The Portuguese part of the design may have introduced the basic hilt shape and *cutlass fashion popular in Portuguese/Spanish Jinetta forms whilst the main theme came from the Sri Lankan design taken from Buddhist structures in history encompassing Makara, supporting Deities and Buddhist ritual-item related Quillons" (as at #115).

*I will stick with that for now and add that the reason for the inclusion of the words cutlass fashion is to net in the similar curved short Nimcha style (and assuming a cutlass action of a short ships sword).

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Been pursuing a more sound foundation for the origin of the name Kasthana based on a term used in old Sinhala; that may provide a far more solid basis than any that had been pursued so far and rule out Portuguese origins to the word.

The term “Asthana” has been documented used on many occasions during the 16th and 17th century texts as a “suffix” to refer to princes. (Example: Princes of King Vimaladharmasuriya I- Rajasuriya Asthana, Udumale Asthana, Kumarasinghe Asthana and Vijayapala Asthana in addition it is also used with Dharmapala Asthana, Dev-Rajasinghe Asthana and Jayaweera Asthana etc.)


There are two Sinhala weapons with the suffix “Asthana” -the Kasthana and the Patisthana; both of these weapons differ from the mainstream arms in the prolific ornamentation that accompany them. While the Kasthana was a weapon of honor presented and used by chiefs and warriors who excelled in battle, the Patisthana was a spear used primarily as a palace guard arm. The records indicate presentations of both as honorifics to individuals by the King.

In Sinhala a sword is referred to as a Asi, Asipath, Kaduwa, Kagga or Kaga. hence a “Princely sword” could become a “Kaga-Asthana” > “Ka-asthana” > “Kasthana”, equally spears known as Ati or Pati could become a “Princely spear” by terming “Pati-Asthana” > “Patisthana”

Accordingly I think it is very likely that the Kasthana was so termed with the meaning of “Prince of Swords” or “Royal Sword”

This will confirm the origin of the Kasthana as a purely Sinhala arm and with a far more solid basis for the origin of the name than any that had been discussed previously. and also provide a strong counter to any Portuguese origin claims.


Attaching an image in celebration- A Kandyan chief with a Kasthana Sword

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Been pursuing a more sound foundation for the origin of the name Kasthana based on a term used in old Sinhala; that may provide a far more solid basis than any that had been pursued so far and rule out Portuguese origins to the word.

The term “Asthana” has been documented used on many occasions during the 16th and 17th century texts as a “suffix” to refer to princes. (Example: Princes of King Vimaladharmasuriya I- Rajasuriya Asthana, Udumale Asthana, Kumarasinghe Asthana and Vijayapala Asthana in addition it is also used with Dharmapala Asthana, Dev-Rajasinghe Asthana and Jayaweera Asthana etc.)


There are two Sinhala weapons with the suffix “Asthana” -the Kasthana and the Patisthana; both of these weapons differ from the mainstream arms in the prolific ornamentation that accompany them. While the Kasthana was a weapon of honor presented and used by chiefs and warriors who excelled in battle, the Patisthana was a spear used primarily as a palace guard arm. The records indicate presentations of both as honorifics to individuals by the King.

In Sinhala a sword is referred to as a Asi, Asipath, Kaduwa, Kagga or Kaga. hence a “Princely sword” could become a “Kaga-Asthana” > “Ka-asthana” > “Kasthana”, equally spears known as Ati or Pati could become a “Princely spear” by terming “Pati-Asthana” > “Patisthana”

Accordingly I think it is very likely that the Kasthana was so termed with the meaning of “Prince of Swords” or “Royal Sword”

This will confirm the origin of the Kasthana as a purely Sinhala arm and with a far more solid basis for the origin of the name than any that had been discussed previously. and also provide a strong counter to any Portuguese origin claims.


Attaching an image in celebration- A Kandyan chief with a Kasthana Sword

Salaams Weerakkody.

Your painting is recent and not taken from an historic reference dating before the Portuguese involvement.. Am I correct in assuming this?

Without wishing to get into a discussion long and difficult (impossible) about "whats in a word" I would caution that there is little evidence either way. I cannot see much of a tie up with your word association except that it is interesting.

Where I suggest a potential area of research which you may be better placed to identify is in the Martial Arts pre Portuguese weaponry style of swords used. The fact is that we are unable to identify an early enough Kastane (Kasthane) which would prove beyond doubt its earlier position.

The 16/17th century is too late....because;

In 1505 Don Lourenço de Almeida, son of the Portuguese viceroy in India, was sailing off the southwestern coast of Sri Lanka looking for Moorish ships to attack when stormy weather forced his fleet to dock at Galle. The rest as we say is history. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[T. Koch]

Prasanna, I just have to give you my compliments for the Kandyan chief! One of the best faces you've done IMO and those eyes are just so intense that he almost scares me through the screen. :D

...btw. if Sinhala chicks are as hot today as they are in your paintings, I hope to get an invitation from you sometime. ;)


Sorry to interrupt guys, I'll go back to my seat now and keep learning. Please keep the discussion going!


All the best, - Thor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Weerakkody.

Your painting is recent and not taken from an historic reference dating before the Portuguese involvement.. Am I correct in assuming this?

Without wishing to get into a discussion long and difficult (impossible) about "whats in a word" I would caution that there is little evidence either way. I cannot see much of a tie up with your word association except that it is interesting.

Where I suggest a potential area of research which you may be better placed to identify is in the Martial Arts pre Portuguese weaponry style of swords used. The fact is that we are unable to identify an early enough Kastane (Kasthane) which would prove beyond doubt its earlier position.

The 16/17th century is too late....because;

In 1505 Don Lourenço de Almeida, son of the Portuguese viceroy in India, was sailing off the southwestern coast of Sri Lanka looking for Moorish ships to attack when stormy weather forced his fleet to dock at Galle. The rest as we say is history. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Weerakkody ~ I have looked again at your explanation of the Kasthane word origins and I have to say it is a well thought out proposition ...what you indicate could be fact .. but unfortunately it doesn't change the equation based ion the first appearance of the Portuguese in Sri Lanka.(1505AD) The point is that even if the word Kasthane is pure Sri Lankan they(the Portuguese ) were already there ... and in the case of the word being Sri Lankan the design and manufacture may not have been, moreover, cooperation in both were likely carried out in Royal workshops, thus, the weapon itself may be a hybrid with aspects of both designers (Sri Lankan and Portuguese) including Buddhist influence etc.

Thank you for the hard work and insight on the linguistic angles.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Thanks Thor for Complement, About the girls; sadly they don’t dress the same way now… :rolleyes:

Balooshi, I have run the concept of Kasthana origin being the word Asthana with a few Sri Lankan historians and linguists and there is agreement to the high probability of the root of the word.

The design origin of Kasthana is also indigenous; and very likely pre-dated Portuguese arrival; though some elements of the Kasthana in its final form may have had possible Portuguese influence. I am still working on this- need more work… :D

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Balooshi, I have run the concept of Kasthana origin being the word Asthana with a few Sri Lankan historians and linguists and there is agreement to the high probability of the root of the word.

The design origin of Kasthana is also indigenous; and very likely pre-dated Portuguese arrival; though some elements of the Kasthana in its final form may have had possible Portuguese influence. I am still working on this- need more work… :D

Salaams Weerakkody ~ All good. It is entirely feasible that the Kastane is Portuguese assisted or even a pre Portuguese then later modified weapon... perhaps jointly worked and produced. It still remains possible, however, that this is a weapon developed by Portuguese / Sri Lankan co-operation post 1505. Perhaps there is some evidence at Museum level or in the archives?

My earlier suggestion of the link in Martial Arts weaponry may be another source.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Note to Forum...

This thread was very interesting and a huge amount of detail was logged for Forum library ~ Meanwhile, it stalled as threads so often do with the promise that we would get back to it soon...

I have seen various Kastane and some extremely nice items though with written detail tending to muddle the two terminologies of Lion Hilt with Makara. Auction houses in particular are reluctant to come down on one side of the fence as they percieve that potential clients could be put off with one of the descriptions so they put both :)

I hope that by resurecting this thread we can get a little closer to the truth.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~Note to Forum.

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=161175&posted=1#post16117 .. I use this reference to illustrate the identity of the Kastane Hilt as Makara based.

The Malay peninsula weapon with a clear design based upon the Makara. See below the water spout design from the same monster form.

It has always intrigued me as to which way the Makara design spread ...

My theory on the Sri Lankan Kastane offers a design formulated by a joint Portuguese Sri Lankan workshops situation using The Makara combined onto a hilt with Vijra (Buddhist influence) elements(false quillons) onto which other Deities(Nagas) and the human faced crocodile on the hand guard are spilled and including a rain guard formed of the Makara (peacock form) tail.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All. Note to Library.

Here are a few new pictures and some maybe already pictured but I just wanted to bring on a group of shots of this sword style ... perhaps I can inspire some input from other Forum members and since this thread came to an abrupt halt a while ago it is time to breathe new life into it.. So lets go!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ...I seek the link between Kastane and Javanese/Indonesian/Malay weapons through the accepted religious/traditional aspect of the mythical Makara Hilts designs, thus, I show Javanese Pedang Lurus Sword with Pamor Blade, Padang Sesak from Indonesia, Makara on Malay Hilt (picture on a black background) below.

I am not only drawing conclusions about cross style transmission but also that what we are looking at in the Sri Lankan Kastane Hilt form is from the same source... The Makara.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

iI would like to park here some Makara designs in Jewellery... It may be of note that the majority of designs refer to a snake or serpent like creature since the main them is upon bangle design...which naturally lends itself to a curled snake bangle style...as opposed to say... a lion.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ An example of Makara on Indian weapons and Tibetan chopping devices... :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All .. Note to Library~

In this epic thread I have shown factors important in the understanding of Earlier the Kastane Hilt design viz;

* Ancient Myth and superstition surrounding the Makara sea monster form.
* Adoption/inclusion of the Makara mythical device in both Hindu and Buddhist beliefs.
* Architectural reflection of Makara form in monumental doorways and waterspouts etc
* Makara designs on traditional jewelery epitomize the snake or serpent like form...not that of the big cat.
* Regional Makara mirroring/style transition on weapon hilts spread pan Indian Ocean and beyond...
* Recent historical evidence on this thread pointing to cohesion between the Portuguese and Sri Lankan rulers in design through Royal Court workshops in reflecting this cultural and traditional Makara iconic shaped Hilt.

I therefor submit that the Kastane Hilt is Makara inspired.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Salaams All ~ An example of Makara on Indian weapons and Tibetan chopping devices... :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


Dear Ibrahiim,

Please review the images you presented the forum more closely.

Some of these creatures in the images you present go by other names such as Leogryph, Yali or Sardula which have a Lion or Leo like face....the mane is hard to miss too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_(Hindu_mythology)


There is a relationship between the Leogryph and the Makara as noted with the link and also seen in item 04.1.116 from the National musuem of Afghanistan.

I can sometimes see a Makara face on some quillon ends but very rarely the pommel of a Kastane...the presence of a trunk on a Makara should be key to correct identification, not a beak, a floral motif or an upturned lip some times seen on the Leogryph/Yali or Sardula and they should not be mistaken for a Makara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=sardula&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=fmbSUo6rM4OklQWLs4HIDw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=622

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

Please review the images you presented the forum more closely.

Some of these creatures in the images you present go by other names such as Leogryph, Yali or Sardula which have a Lion or Leo like face....the mane is hard to miss too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_(Hindu_mythology)


There is a relationship between the Leogryph and the Makara as noted with the link and also seen in item 04.1.116 from the National musuem of Afghanistan.

I can sometimes see a Makara face on some quillon ends but very rarely the pommel of a Kastane...the presence of a trunk on a Makara should be key to correct identification, not a beak, a floral motif or an upturned lip some times seen on the Leogryph/Yali or Sardula and they should not be mistaken for a Makara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=sardula&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=fmbSUo6rM4OklQWLs4HIDw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=622

Gavin

Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons ~ I cannot recall any beaked Makara on any of my posts. They all have teeth. The trunks cannot be relied upon as often they are turned back over the head and shortened sometimes totally obscured or occasionally missing altogether. Where auxiliary deities appear they could be either miniature Makara and or Nagas ..secondary deities forming the design on the hand guard and cross guard. Another deity ... that of the humano/crocodile form can sometimes be found in the handguard as a human face..see #56. More deities form the endings to the Tibetan style Vagras on the false quillons...probably more Nagas. Did Lions spew deities...? No.


I have looked again and confirm my previous posts..I have considered the other deities you mention ie Leogryph, Yali or Sardula. Yali /Sardula looks like a soft faced horse..similar to a walrus face without tusks.. Leogryph don't spill/ spew monsters all over the place like Makara. Its what Makara do. Its what goes on all over the hilt of the Kastane..because the main handle is comprised the Makara.

Perhaps its not easy, this recognition of Makara, not least because even in the minds of believers they (Makara) slide through several different phases changing slightly as they morph. It should be noted however that in the Karava dynasty they were very much in play as serpent derivatives and it is this form that was (I argue) construed by the makers of this sword; The Portuguese and Karava Royal Sword workshops.

Even if I place in the margin the other countries in which Makara appear culturally including (Burma, Cambodia,China,India,Indonesia,Laos,Malaysia,Nepal ,Thailand,Vietnem Java)...but focus in on Sri Lanka specifically; I stand firmly behind this hypothesis (It's a Makara not a Lion)viz;

Makara (Sinhala Mythology)
'Makara' is the Sinhala term for dragon, an important figure in Sinhala Buddhist culture in Sri Lanka. Thus to prove it I have lined up many Sri Lankan Buddhist related links. viz;

History
Since ancient time, easterners believe thet Makara is one of watery creatures and even from the pre-era of the field of Buddhist art, Makara has been depicted both in work of literature and stone carvings. Makara gained a distinctive position in the Sinhala Buddhist culture - a special place not given in Buddhist artwork in other countries. It is for that reason that we should not be surprised by the addition of the Makara spewing other religious deities, Nagas etc but we should note that Lion motifs do not do that.

In Sinhalese ancient artwork Makara has been an invented creature; it is made up of body parts of six or seven animals such as the trunk of the elephant, jaws of the crocodile, ears of the mouse or ape, extruding teeth of wild swine, the tail plume of the peacock and feet of the lion. The plume of the Peacock is often seen on the rain-guard and or flowing down the throat of the Kastane blade. It is not associated with the Lion.

Artistic Work
It is obvious that the Sinhala artists attributed a special symbolic meaning to Makara by adding the picture of Makara around the said stone carving. In addition to that, the Sinhala artists have given more opportunities for Makara to enter into the art world.

Dragon balustrade
Dragon Balustrade at the entrance to Jaya Sri Maha Bodhi in Anuradhapura, Sir Lanka. The dragon balustrade is another kind of stone carvings which portray the Makara (dragon). These artworks used to decorate the entrance of Buddhist stupas, temples and Bo trees. There are two balustrades at the main entrance of Lankathilaka Viharaya in Kandy and they are sometimes called Gajasinha balustrades (ගඡසිංහ කොරවක් ගල්) because of the shape of the Makara there.

Guard stones
The guard-stone (මුරගල) has given a highest place to Makara. Over the head of the gatekeeper carved in there, the figures of Makara can be seen.

Pandol.
Makara pandol over the image of Lord Buddha in Dambulla cave temple. Doing what? Providing other deities to flank the main subject.

Sinhala-buddhist artists considered Makara as the symbol of prosperity and self-sufficiency so they were not hesitant in portraying the sign of Makara in the entrance arch gateway to the religious places, such as temples, stupa or bodi. Precious examples for the above are Temple of the Tooth and Lankatilaka Temple in Kandy. Examples for the arched gateway with Makara over the image of Lord Buddha can be seen in Ridi Viharaya and Dambulla cave temple.

Other Artefacts. A figure of Makara has been carved to the handle of a temple key of Gadaladeniya Temple built in 1344 in Diggala in the Kandy District.


Flags
Since long ago as of 1668, people in Karava (කෞරව) cast in Sri Lanka use a flag with the symbol of Makara which is called the Makara flag in their ceremonies. Not the Lion Flag !


The Pictures show;

# The Makara Jewelery style; a reflection in the design of the Kastane hilt from the Makara.

# The gold bangle is clearly of Makara form and the other bangle with coloured stones, rubies etc is noted as a Makara bangle by The Met Museum.

# The two brown coloured pictures of the odd Horse deity (Yali or Sardula) with the soft walrus like face which is not like the Makara.

# The picture of the Karava flag with Makara and Horseman ~ mirrored in the jewellery.

# Kastane illustrating the Makara Hilt spewing other deities onto the hand-guard and cross guard which includes Nagas.

# The peculiar chopping axe (Tibetan Vagra) giving rise to the strange quillon like devices on the Kastane.. proving a religious link.

# Finally the peacock tail typical of the Makara, in addition, proves; The Makara Hilt.[B]

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

Thank you for your post on the cross cultural aspects of the Makara.

Back to the large creature on the pommel of the Kastane. Please look closer to this link already provided and look at all the images again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_(Hindu_mythology)

You have only chose to provide one image of the Yali in your latest, a known example with a trunk.
Read also the notes within the link, Quote; "Other common examples are: the lion-headed (simha-vyala)" Unquote....these are the numerous images I refer to.

Taking these lion-headed (simha-vyala) Yali or Leogryphs in mind, the ones with the exacting manes, teeth and general appearance of the Kastane pommel, there is much more visual evidence at hand that supports this creature, the Yali or Leogryph as being on the pommel, far more than the icons of the Makara as the imagery is so very different and nothing spews forth from the mouth of the Kastane pommel.
Furthermore, using the notion that is it known that the Makara spew forth the Yali of Leogrypgh as communicated about a well known museum icon supported by yourself Leogryph don't spill/ spew monsters all over the place like Makara. Its what Makara do. Its what goes on all over the hilt of the Kastane..because the main handle is comprised the Makara. Look close at one aspect of the latest knuckle bow you have just presented, there is a Makara spewing forth the knuckle bow...what is at the end of the knuckle bow, a near exact face as that on the pommel...the Yali or Leogryph.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

Thank you for your post on the cross cultural aspects of the Makara.

Back to the large creature on the pommel of the Kastane. Please look closer to this link already provided and look at all the images again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_(Hindu_mythology)

You have only chose to provide one image of the Yali in your latest, a known example with a trunk.
Read also the notes within the link, Quote; "Other common examples are: the lion-headed (simha-vyala)" Unquote....these are the numerous images I refer to.

Taking these lion-headed (simha-vyala) Yali or Leogryphs in mind, the ones with the exacting manes, teeth and general appearance of the Kastane pommel, there is much more visual evidence at hand that supports this creature, the Yali or Leogryph as being on the pommel, far more than the icons of the Makara as the imagery is so very different and nothing spews forth from the mouth of the Kastane pommel.
Furthermore, using the notion that is it known that the Makara spew forth the Yali of Leogrypgh as communicated about a well known museum icon supported by yourself Look close at one aspect of the latest knuckle bow you have just presented, there is a Makara spewing forth the knuckle bow...what is at the end of the knuckle bow, a near exact face as that on the pommel...the Yali or Leogryph.

Gavin


Salaams Do you mean that the Kastane hilt design is a Yali or a Leogryph in your view? That would fly in the face of the very detailed hypothesis and Buddhist facts as laid down above. Leogryphs don't look like Makara in that they do not have peacock tails..dont emit supporting deities thus are not even vaguelly related to Makara which are sea monsters. The Makara are sea monsters but I assume the Leogryph went about its business in the jungle...it having the face of a large cat...and the legs and tail of a lion.... and didnt throw up quantities of minor deities... The Makara did.

However to clear up the difference between Yali and Leogryph see http://cities.sulekha.com/worldwide/351329/review.htm and I will put pictures below.. to distinguish the main elements from Makara;..Both the Yali and Leogryph have cat like faces and tails of lion..(The Makara has a tail of Peacock). Neither cat like Deities casts quantities of Naga about the place as it is not their job in life...Yali and Leogryph are closely related and appear to be lion/tiger mixtures. Apologies to Buddhist followers for any inaccuracies and no flippancy intended.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

Yes I do mean the Kastane pommel and grip is that of Lion's face...whether in the Yali lion-headed (simha-vyala), LEO(lion)gryph or just plain lion it is unknown...it is not Makara.

The Kastane pommel spits nothing from its mouth...why is it in your eyes a Makara when nothing spits from its mouth despite you claiming it does? The quillons and knuckle bows do not spew forth from the Pommel's mouth.

The Kastane pommel is to my eye more the Sardula or the Yali Simha-Vyala, a more lion like creature but when there is a Makara spewing forth a knuckle bow with another head the same as the pommel, the Leogryph comes to mind based on the ancient ivory carvings in the Afghanistan museum that show the Leogryph coming forth from a Makara's mouth.

The Lion in most important in Hindu cutlure from top to bottom of the land. While I will not weigh dieties against dieties for importance, the pommel is of Lion type, the Lion being highly regarded througout time within these lands..

Here is a very good representation of a Hindu Lion guardian from Nepal;
http://stockfresh.com/image/566878/hindu-temple-guardian-lion
I am sure you can see such a likeness that it is uncanny.

If you think the lion is of little relevence, please read this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigiriya

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

Yes I do mean the Kastane pommel and grip is that of Lion's face...whether in the Yali lion-headed (simha-vyala), LEO(lion)gryph or just plain lion it is unknown...it is not Makara.

The Kastane pommel spits nothing from its mouth...why is it in your eyes a Makara when nothing spits from its mouth despite you claiming it does? The quillons and knuckle bows do not spew forth from the Pommel's mouth.

The Kastane pommel is to my eye more the Sardula or the Yali Simha-Vyala, a more lion like creature but when there is a Makara spewing forth a knuckle bow with another head the same as the pommel, the Leogryph comes to mind based on the ancient ivory carvings in the Afghanistan museum that show the Leogryph coming forth from a Makara's mouth.

The Lion in most important in Hindu cutlure from top to bottom of the land. While I will not weigh dieties against dieties for importance, the pommel is of Lion type, the Lion being highly regarded througout time within these lands..

Here is a very good representation of a Hindu Lion guardian from Nepal;
http://stockfresh.com/image/566878/hindu-temple-guardian-lion
I am sure you can see such a likeness that it is uncanny.

If you think the lion is of little relevence, please read this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigiriya

Gavin


Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons;

At your first reference You are right in considering (as I have done) the lions in Nepal which if you look carefully you will see that they do not have peacock tails nor do they emit deities all around. I have included a further picture which shows the tails of these beasts which are entirely of a different traditional icon... The Lion. Not the Makara. Note the tails!

At your second reference there is a small note ONLY viz; Quote "There was a sculpted lion's head above the legs and paws flanking the entrance, but the head broke down many years ago" Unquote. Lions Gate though relatively important to Sinhalese culture in no way overshadows the vital detail of the Makara... They are entirely different issues.

The business of deciding if the Kastane has a Makara or Lion hilt is vital in the understanding of its origins..and I have a duty to prove the truth irrespective of spurious counter claims from whatever quarter. It is a well known fact that dealers in Kastane rather than grasp the nettle over this conundrum of Makara versus Lion prefer to "sit on the fence" in their description and would rather put Makara or Lion ..When in fact it is a purely Makara deity.

The history books, traditional, cultural and religious backup are all present in my posts ... It is proven in my opinion; Makara emit deities... it is their role. The other deities including the crocodile human faced deity on the hand guard and other serpents ~possibly miniature Makaras and Nagas issued from the mouth of the hilt "subject" with the peacock tail and adorning the cross guard and pseudo quillon ends (Vagra). It is a Makara Hilt. If it was a lion would it have a peacock tail? No.

You are simply looking at this through another prism. It would seem to be rather cloudy.

I have backed up my arguement with solid facts drawn from many angles using pictures and detail across a swathe of structures from art form, literature, mythological inclusion, history, archeology, artefacts, jewelery, religion, tradition and ethnographic arms... yet still you do not agree. because you think it doesn't look like it.. and you appear to see something else. What about the precise argument offered here?

Perhaps you think that the hilt is of some other mysterious form? Moreover, having based your assumptions on entirely the wrong conclusions you may never join up the wires because your structure cannot match the theory of how this hilt was designed onto the weapon or by whom or when.

The Karvara kingdom would have to have reduced the Makara to near insignificance to have it overtaken by the Yali and some strange maneuvering to have the wrong mythical beast emit minor monsters ...and to give the wrong creature a peacock tail??.. it makes no sense.

Perhaps you may not have considered the religious inclusion of the Vagra in the design of the pseudo quillon structures? Do you not think that being blessed with Vagra finials that this Hilt would therefor need to be religiously correct?

My advice to you is to read the thread again.


Picture below in the same Nepalese square of the Lions with ...Lions Tails. Incidentally do you see any other deities being spewed forth from their mouths...?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

The Lions could have Elephant tails or be blowing bubbles from there tails, the tail is not present in the icons of the Kastane we discuss.
Equally the Makara could have a sheeps tail, it matters not as no Makara's tail is not present in the icons of the Kastane pommel we discuss.

The lion icons throughout India and surrounding countries are a far more accurate in appearance to the Kastane pommel than any Makara within the world is.

No one is denying you the right that Makara emit deities but these Kastane pommels are not emitting anything but tongues and teeth, hardly Makara Makara Deities. No one is denying the importance of place the Makara holds in the culture.

The clouded prism you note is based on the icons known and the importance known thousands of years, not what details are NOT seen in the icons of your suggestions that it is a Makara.

As visual historically important icons do not support your argument that the pommel is based on an the Makara, the point is rather empty. Why not suggest the hilt is Shiva the god of gods, Shiva is more important than any Makara and has as little visual similarities. No one is saying the Makara is reduced in any way throughout time but it is not carried in the Pommel of a Kastane.

To answer your question, I see nothing spewing forth from the Nepal Lions mouth. Lions do not do this, nor do the Pommels of Kastane show this.

Question to you; Please show me something other than a tongue and teeth issuing forth from the pommel of a Kastane.
Question; Why was the mountain of Sigiriya not carved as a Makara. Note the Buddhists who were present here without it being a Makara.
Question; When did the Makara become so distorted that it come to look like all the Lion icons in the lands.

My advice to you is obtain every known image of the Makara and do the same with the lions Leogrypgh, Yali (simha-vyala) and start a checklist of the traits and qualities within these icons and you will see clearly on the paper in front of you that the Makara falls well short of being presented on the Pommel of the Kastane.

Gavin

[spiral]

Chaps...

The depicted Lion like temple Guardians from Nepal in this picture are often called Chinthe, in both Nepal & Burma.

I agree There definatly Leogryphs in English language deduction.

That's why the have lions tales. ;)

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114611&stc=1



Heres a great picture showing a liongryph ( of south Indian yali form} and makara figures on frieze at Narttamalai Pallava Cave Temple. from the seventh-eighth centuries.{From the Huntington archive.}

http://images.asc.ohio-state.edu/is/image/ha/0023080_c.JPG?size=668,668&qlt=30&fmt=jpeg

That may {or may not.} help your discusian. :shrug:

Spiral

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Chaps...

The depicted Lion like temple Guardians from Nepal in this picture are often called Chinthe, in both Nepal & Burma.

I agree There definatly Leogryphs in English language deduction.

That's why the have lions tales. ;)

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114611&stc=1



Heres a great picture showing a liongryph ( of south Indian yali form} and makara figures on frieze at Narttamalai Pallava Cave Temple. from the seventh-eighth centuries.{From the Huntington archive.}

http://images.asc.ohio-state.edu/is/image/ha/0023080_c.JPG?size=668,668&qlt=30&fmt=jpeg

That may {or may not.} help your discusian. :shrug:

Spiral


Salaams Spiral Thank you for the detail and constructive criticism and references . I will now however quickly prove with pictures the Makara peacock feather tale about its tail. Then I shall make a very brave statement about the Kastane. I hope you can remain with me until then...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

The Lions could have Elephant tails or be blowing bubbles from there tails, the tail is not present in the icons of the Kastane we discuss.
Equally the Makara could have a sheeps tail, it matters not as no Makara's tail is not present in the icons of the Kastane pommel we discuss.

The lion icons throughout India and surrounding countries are a far more accurate in appearance to the Kastane pommel than any Makara within the world is.

No one is denying you the right that Makara emit deities but these Kastane pommels are not emitting anything but tongues and teeth, hardly Makara Makara Deities. No one is denying the importance of place the Makara holds in the culture.



The clouded prism you note is based on the icons known and the importance known thousands of years, not what details are NOT seen in the icons of your suggestions that it is a Makara.

As visual historically important icons do not support your argument that the pommel is based on an the Makara, the point is rather empty. Why not suggest the hilt is Shiva the god of gods, Shiva is more important than any Makara and has as little visual similarities. No one is saying the Makara is reduced in any way throughout time but it is not carried in the Pommel of a Kastane.

To answer your question, I see nothing spewing forth from the Nepal Lions mouth. Lions do not do this, nor do the Pommels of Kastane show this.

Question to you; Please show me something other than a tongue and teeth issuing forth from the pommel of a Kastane.
Question; Why was the mountain of Sigiriya not carved as a Makara. Note the Buddhists who were present here without it being a Makara.
Question; When did the Makara become so distorted that it come to look like all the Lion icons in the lands.

My advice to you is obtain every known image of the Makara and do the same with the lions Leogrypgh, Yali (simha-vyala) and start a checklist of the traits and qualities within these icons and you will see clearly on the paper in front of you that the Makara falls well short of being presented on the Pommel of the Kastane.

Gavin

Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons . Almost every Kastane illustrates a "geometric style" peacock tail and absolutely where there is a cross-guard, hand guard and "pseudo" quillons ... secondary deities shown having been emitted from the main subject on the hilt... The Makara.

The minor deities crawl, slither or appear as the human face on the hand-guard as the humano/crocodile mythical creature already on thread at #56 .

I note that further regurgitations occur from the miniature looking Makara especially on the handguard though the cross guard and Vagra finials appear to depict Nagas.

The Nagas and or secondary mini Makara appear on the hand- guard and cross-guard finials and swooping over the guard onto the pseudo quillons appearing as finials on the Vagra tips. That is where the tail appears dressing usually the triangular rain-guard arrangement, sometimes, even flowing over onto and down the blade throat itself. Finally on the scabbard at the drag chape there is occasionally another monster emitting another deity...or perhaps fire.

My plan is to show Makara with the tails of Peacocks since that is how the Buddhist religion shows their form. This is illustrated in Kastane Hilts etc in the following posts on this thread; 25, 52, 56, 71(Gunbutt), 78(door support), 115(Vagra),101,139, 147,150, 153.

The Peacock tail is the form created onto the Makara by the religious structure Buddhism. Fact. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_%28Hindu_mythology%29

I will now illustrate peacock tails on the artistic "impressions" of this ancient mythical creature.

Pictures below indicate the importance of understanding the essential ingredient... The Tail...in Peacock form of the Makara.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All... Once more ... The Kastane hilt. Confirming the peacock tail thus the hilt of Makara form. Showing minor Deities ...having been spewed forth onto the guards and pseudo quillons even displayed as also emitting minor deities themselves since perhaps the artist is conveying mini Makara as well. Illustrating the Vagra Buddhist link and finally the monster at the tip of the scabbard mirroring the general concept of supporting deities in this sword based on the foundation mythical creature the Makara forming the hilt.

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

I can appreciate your position on the subject I can but in the icons present above, none from antiquity show the form of the pommel.

I do concur the line drawing does but it doesn't look to be very old and the reference of its source is not forthcoming for better digestion.

Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

I see no feathers or peacock plumage of any kind in the images you provide...
Equally, in relation to a scabbard tip shown, I have had Kastane scabbards carved in the style of an elephant trunk...

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All. Moving forward... It is interesting that the iconic weapon Kastane (now the National Sword of Sri Lanka) appears to have little or no blade markings... marks of high quality blades often seen on Portuguese swords are absent on these weapons. Why?

It struck me that...No Kastane has ever turned up with a properly marked/ stamped blade ... particularly odd since the Portuguese were good at that. So what are these things about? I suggest:

1. Court Swords... Popham Armour, Jewel encrusted gold and silver inlaid...
2. Presentration Swords.. Japanese Delegation and in their Museum ...
3. VIP swords for the Sri Lankan landed gentry...see below.
4. Religious Icons... The Buddhist Vagra and Makara. Defender of the faith ...of Buddhism that is. Thus never a weapon. A religious Icon.
5. Defenders of the owners via myth and superstition because of its Deities.... It is Talismanic per se.
6. Added in retrospect ...Badges of rank of the wearer.

The blade is not marked nor stamped for excellence ...the blade is not for fighting... the enriched ruby encrusted gilded hilt would never be wielded in a fight ... a kind of a reverse engineering twist; in the same way that a crucifix or perhaps the cross and orb artifact wouldn't be used as a weapon to club someone to death!!..Neither would this be used as a dagger/ sword in a fight.. since this would dishonour the religion.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~Makara. Some notes.

Only Varuna, the lord of the sky and the sea, the spiritual ruler of the world has power over the Makara. The Makara is Varuna’s vehicle in Hindu mythology. As most Karavas in southern Sri Lanka belong to the Karava Varunakulasuriya (Warunakulasuriya) clan, the symbolism is extremely interesting. In mythology Varuna is the chief of the Adithyas. Remnants of the name Adithya from the medieval period can still be found in Karava family names and the Nagadipa inscription of King Parakramabahu I mentions Chandraditya (Chandra + Adithya, Moon & Sun - quoted in Sakala Sinhala Chakrawarthi page 25). As Adithya is a synonym for Suriya (ie. the Sun). the Karava clan Varunakulasuriya too signifies Varuna-Adithya.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gustav]

It struck me that...No Kastane has ever turned up with a properly marked/ stamped blade ... particularly odd since the Portuguese were good at that.

2. Presentration Swords.. Japanese Delegation and in their Museum ...

The Kastane in Sendai Museum, which you mention here, most probably the oldest Kastane with a proper provenance, has clear markings on its blade.

[/QUOTE]4. Religious Icons... The Buddhist Vagra and Makara. Defender of the faith ...of Buddhism that is. Thus never a weapon. A religious Icon.
5. Defenders of the owners via myth and superstition because of its Deities.... It is Talismanic per se.[/QUOTE]

Weapons with religious symbols on blades or fittings and of talismanic value are nothing of rarity. Actually the ties between religion and warfare are quite obvious and fundamental.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

I see no feathers or peacock plumage of any kind in the images you provide...
Equally, in relation to a scabbard tip shown, I have had Kastane scabbards carved in the style of an elephant trunk...

Gavin


Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons ~If you consider The Makara in several stages of development you will note that its morphs according to which phase it is in...See below that it sometimes portrays the elephant form... so it is not surprising that you may have seen an elephant deployed in the scabbard... It is the way the artesan portrayed it..in stage 5 of its potential development...simple enough?

In similar ways the Deity is often portrayed with fish scales and a peacock tail...

Traditionally, a Makara is considered to be an aquatic mythical creature. Makara has been depicted typically as half animal half fish. Some traditional accounts identify it with a crocodile, specifically Gharial because of its long extended snout. It is depicted with the forequarters of an elephant and the hindquarters as a fish tail. Crocodile was also a form which was used in the earlier days which was shown with a human body.

In many temples, the depiction is in the form of half fish or seal with head of an elephant. It is also shown with head and jaws resembling a crocodile, an elephant trunk with scales of fish and a peacock tail. Other accounts identify it with Gangetic Dolphin having striking resemblances with the latter, now found mainly in Vikramshila Gangetic Dolphin Sanctuary. Others portray it as a fish body with an elephant's head. The tradition identifies the makara with water, the source of all existence and fertility.

In the medieval era of South India, Makara was shown as a fifth stage of development, symbolized in the form of an elephant head and body with an elaborately foliated fish tail. Most myths maintain this symbolism of this stage in the evolution of life.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Kastane in Sendai Museum, which you mention here, most probably the oldest Kastane with a proper provenance, has clear markings on its blade.



Weapons with religious symbols on blades or fittings and of talismanic value are nothing of rarity. Actually the ties between religion and warfare are quite obvious and fundamental.


Salaams Gustav, Thank you for your input which is very interesting ... .. Your point on religious links to battle swords is understood. My point is I have no records nor have any surfaced as yet of blades with stamps or markings, which, for a blade said to have possibly been made in a joint Portuguese Sri Lankan workshop is odd. At any rate my comment is purely speculative in this regard as you will note it is only a suggestion..but your post is excellent and inspires a look into the Japanese presentation item.

I note one web author who says Quote''The blades were initially of mediocre quality until blades made in Europe began to be used. Many of the blades bear East India Company trademark.'' Unquote. Does that mean that before the British arrived blades were inferior... I find this very interesting if true?

Here is the weapon you speak of.. I cant see a blade mark but assume an European blade here...see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga

Described as; Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return; Sendai City Museum

Pictures of swords said to have been acquired in the Philippines and dated map of his travels. 1620 being key; Given the weapons at that time in the Philippines.



Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All Note to Library Anecdotal note:
Kastana

The national sword of Ceylon. Typically a short curved single-edged watered blade, double-edged at the point. The hilt comprises a knuckle-guard and down-turned quillons, each terminating in a dragon's head with large in-set eyes. The dragon's head is usually decorated throughout with gold or silver panels and the pommel with tongue is formed from a piece of wood or red coral. The dragon's mane trails down the grip and is decorated with silver and gilt repousse floral designs. The entire hilt is often made of silver or gold and even inlaid with jewels. The blade close to the hilt is decorated with floral or thatched designs. The scabbard is made from wood and is covered with embossed and chased silver worked with flowers with leafy borders and richly ornamental.
The swords were intended to serve as badges of rank. Rev. James Cordiner in 1807 wrote that everyone in office wears a sword with a silver hilt and scabbard. These swords were made in the Royal workshops known as the "Rankadu Pattala" or "golden sword workshop" and the quality of the piece always depended on the rank of the wearer. I isolate those 2 points viz;


1. These swords were made in the Royal workshops known as the "Rankadu Pattala" or "golden sword workshop"

2. The quality of the piece always depended on the rank of the wearer.


Although the Rev. James Cordiner actually describes the Monster as a Tiger(!!) he does go on to say ~ Quote."The design and workmanship exhibited in these decorations are distinguishing badges of the particular rank of the wearer.”Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

The old post seem to be dragging on once again but with the same old (what I thought was now a long dead) argument. I think I would not even try to convince Mr. Balooshi as he is fixed on his idea that the Kasthana pommel is Makara despite all the evidence presented and Mr. Balooshi seems totally unable to even examine and see objectively the points presented. Balooshi It would be good if you would kindly go through the thread again. most of these points you still throw around have been answered before.

Being from Sri Lanka- the Kasthana is part of my living heritage. I understand it standing within the culture which originated it and still survive. I see the Sinhala Makara and Lion and other mythical beasts in that context - there is no mistake the pommel is of a Lion head. It is also backed by the surviving sword lore and is even mentioned in ancient craft manuals like the “Vyjayantha thanthra” The Kasthana is known as the Lion hilted sword. There is not even a shard of doubt about the identity of the beast on the pommel.

As I said earlier there are Makara and Serapendiya figures depicted on other parts of the Kasthana hilt but the pommel is always a Lion head.

If you need to drag along this further may be you should look at depictions of Makara and Lion in Sinhala motifs instead of regional as there are some differences. Regional references don’t always tally up with Sinhala traditional art and motifs. bringing in a mixed hodge-podge of all sorts of creatures that don’t have a place in a Sinhala context is only adding to the confusion.

As I mentioned before there are two main classes of Kasthana swords- the earlier dated Kasthana with good blades and Silver, metal, Horn or wooden hilts were true fighting weapons. I had listed historic texts that document use of Kasthana swords in battle dating back to mid 16th Century. (Balooshi-please go back and check that). The Golden hilts with excessive jewels with the “dog-faced” Lion hilts and inferior blades were mostly just presentation swords used by Sinhala Mudelliers and Arachchis under Dutch and British administrations.

The religious Iconography used is as auspicious symbols to bring luck and protection to the warrior- Theravada Buddhism does not use weapons as religious Icons.

No new material seem to be forthcoming and only old ideas are being re-shuffled. It is funny that everyone else is able to identify Lions from Makara heads with the exception of Mr. Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The old post seem to be dragging on once again but with the same old (what I thought was now a long dead) argument. I think I would not even try to convince Mr. Balooshi as he is fixed on his idea that the Kasthana pommel is Makara despite all the evidence presented and Mr. Balooshi seems totally unable to even examine and see objectively the points presented. Balooshi It would be good if you would kindly go through the thread again. most of these points you still throw around have been answered before.

Being from Sri Lanka- the Kasthana is part of my living heritage. I understand it standing within the culture which originated it and still survive. I see the Sinhala Makara and Lion and other mythical beasts in that context - there is no mistake the pommel is of a Lion head. It is also backed by the surviving sword lore and is even mentioned in ancient craft manuals like the “Vyjayantha thanthra” The Kasthana is known as the Lion hilted sword. There is not even a shard of doubt about the identity of the beast on the pommel.

As I said earlier there are Makara and Serapendiya figures depicted on other parts of the Kasthana hilt but the pommel is always a Lion head.

If you need to drag along this further may be you should look at depictions of Makara and Lion in Sinhala motifs instead of regional as there are some differences. Regional references don’t always tally up with Sinhala traditional art and motifs. bringing in a mixed hodge-podge of all sorts of creatures that don’t have a place in a Sinhala context is only adding to the confusion.

As I mentioned before there are two main classes of Kasthana swords- the earlier dated Kasthana with good blades and Silver, metal, Horn or wooden hilts were true fighting weapons. I had listed historic texts that document use of Kasthana swords in battle dating back to mid 16th Century. (Balooshi-please go back and check that). The Golden hilts with excessive jewels with the “dog-faced” Lion hilts and inferior blades were mostly just presentation swords used by Sinhala Mudelliers and Arachchis under Dutch and British administrations.

The religious Iconography used is as auspicious symbols to bring luck and protection to the warrior- Theravada Buddhism does not use weapons as religious Icons.

No new material seem to be forthcoming and only old ideas are being re-shuffled. It is funny that everyone else is able to identify Lions from Makara heads with the exception of Mr. Balooshi.



Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody,

Sir, I have been through the thread... I wrote most of it. You may think its funny...or that no new material is being offered. You could consider reflecting that the thread is dragging on... or that everyone else thinks the subject hilt depicts a lion...(strange that ... as there is only one other person in that debate)...If you aren't interested or perhaps you are bored what can I do about that? I certainly will not give up. I like the subject! Its interesting. I learn a lot as we proceed.

All that you have done is to pontificate "that because you say its a lion it must be a lion". It's not. Its a Makara. I have shown that in several recent posts ..see above. I have even listed reasons for ease of understanding and supported my reasoning with pictures.

New detail has emerged .. Anecdotal evidence from 1807 when the weapon was used as a military rank indicator.. and more logical evidence; historic, cultural, and traditional as well as religious. That is what this Forum is about.

If you do not wish to take part then it is entirely up to you...This is a Forum... you know what happens on Forums... ? :)

Being from Sri Lanka does not give you ownership of the Kastane...moreover it gives you the opportunity to debate this very little known sword on the hot anvil of this Forum and not Sir, to attempt to slur the efforts of others.

It is extremely bad form to suggest that I may have not the respect because I am not Sri Lankan and to suggest that by speaking to me in the 3rd person that everyone else is able to identify the lion except me is entirely without merit and very insulting.

You are mistaken about the Makara Hilt. Its not a Lion. I just proved it. See my last few posts.

Your point about ancient or older blades is noted ... but you cant just talk about them... It has to be looked at, examined and debated. It wouldn't surprise me if they were better blades.. but on this show... You have to practically dig the old body up with the original sword in his hand and a diagram in triplicate of the design signed by the maker! before it can be accepted beyond doubt.

No one else addresses me as Balooshi here... Kindly use my first name; Ibrahiim.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

Please do not be so bold and self assured that you have "proved" it is a Makara. Nothing has been proved unless you have a time machine...one that I would like to hire if you do.

I am still awaiting for numerous direct questions to be answered, not side stepped and danced around.

Please be so kind as to provide direct answers when time permits.


Gavin

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

You may want to digest this victorain period etching further.

Gavin

[David]

Sir, I have been through the thread… I wrote most of it.
Yes Ibrahiim, we know… ;)
Fortunately academic debates are not necessarily won based upon who writes the most about the subject during the debate just as in person arguments are not won by the person who argues the loudest.
Frankly i see that you have proved nothing in this debate. And very clearly more than one person disagrees with your conclusion while i do not see anyone lining up who agrees with your hypothesis. I will add myself to the growing group of people who are at least voicing their opposition to your theory. I suspect that many are remaining silent because they don't see the point of argument. The pommel figure is undoubtably a lion to my eyes. It has lion features that are not known to have ever been a part of the Makara motif such as the mane and is missing many of the features such as the snout/trunk which are classic indicators of the Makara.
I am afraid that if you cannot see the pommel is clearly a lion's head, especially with this last picture posted by Gavin, that further debate with you on the subject is futile. But do carry on if it makes you feel any better. :shrug:

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrahiim,

Please also find better sources for the image you supplied of Makara. This is a Leogryph, not a Makara. The head of a Lion, the body of a Griffin.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

You may want to digest this victorain period etching further.

Gavin


Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons Thank you for your detail showing the Victorian Lion. The picture of the half bird item is hugely interesting and for that I am grateful also. It appears to be a Serapendiya. (see picture below)

Over the last few weeks I have been defending the Makara .. blindly perhaps... but firmly in my opinion.(not always the best way of doing business :) ) At the same time (and lacking both support and disagreements both of which are inspirational especially if criticism is constructive) I have been looking sideways with great interest at the other monsters, Deities and grotesques involved in the Kastane Hilt. Many are virtually identical but as I have said not all have vital fish or Peacock tail arrangement... but blow me down some do!!


It seems possible that some highly controvertial alterations may have ensued in the way the Sri Lankan National Sword may have been been historically re written. Thus this is a highly emotive subject in some quarters. Though the Victorian view of what Europeans thought a Lion looked like I have to say that their construction may have been slightly off regarding accuracy. That to one side .. it will be apparent from my findings in looking at the broader picture that some Deities will begin to fuse .. and who knows I could end up debating the Lion head after all...

The confusion is hardly surprising..Virtually every source I have looked at including museums and auction houses have a bland overall way of encompassing the description of the Kastane hilt. Some explain it in dual form either a Makara or a Lion, others call it a grotesque whilst the dragon word often intervenes. Several mix up the minor deities (if that is what they are) whilst others confuse the face on the handguard as a maiden...etc etc ..

Through the ages, considering the occupation of three invading forces including Portuguese, Dutch, and British (and interference by others) all now fairly well inducted into library via this thread by the way ... and not to mention the now full information package that this thread contains..The Kastane has switched from potential weapon,to court sword, to presentation sword, to badge of office, to badge of rank, to National Sword and carries with it Buddhist forms at the quillons probably from the Vagra structure discussed here.

During its history there is some evidence that restrictions on who could wear it. As early as 1807 Royal Workshops were involved in its production though exactly how this developed or from where is not yet known. It would seem that a junior officer would have a less lavish Kastane and somewhere there is possibly a rank structure/Kastane graph ...or note detailing who could wear what..

Somewhere in the martial arts system in Sri Lanka there may exist confirmation that this weapon was one of the many weapons used before or at the beginning of Portuguese involvement.

Current thinking suggests Royal Workshop collusion with the Portuguese in creating the lavish hilt if not the entire item. If the kingdom which inspired the design was in fact the Karvara dynasty then the hilt is more likely not to be Lion and far more probable to be Makara. If Sinhalese then the design would more likely to be intended as Lion.

In studying the different motiffs I have to add "serapendiya" (a mythical figure of an animal whose head is like that of a lion joined to the body of a bird) head quillon finials. (Frankly I had never even heard of it until I began sweeping about considering the Lion situation) See the pictures below.

In fact, it may well be that #23 The quilons and guards carry Makara and Serapendiya heads interchangeably. Some swords also carry representation of deities on sword hilts in addition to the Animal forms... is correct.

Picture shows Serapendiya. Perhaps this Deity holds the key?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Yes Ibrahiim, we know… ;)
Fortunately academic debates are not necessarily won based upon who writes the most about the subject during the debate just as in person arguments are not won by the person who argues the loudest.
Frankly i see that you have proved nothing in this debate. And very clearly more than one person disagrees with your conclusion while i do not see anyone lining up who agrees with your hypothesis. I will add myself to the growing group of people who are at least voicing their opposition to your theory. I suspect that many are remaining silent because they don't see the point of argument. The pommel figure is undoubtably a lion to my eyes. It has lion features that are not known to have ever been a part of the Makara motif such as the mane and is missing many of the features such as the snout/trunk which are classic indicators of the Makara.
I am afraid that if you cannot see the pommel is clearly a lion's head, especially with this last picture posted by Gavin, that further debate with you on the subject is futile. But do carry on if it makes you feel any better. :shrug:

Salaams David. Good points well brought out! I agree.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Picture shows Serapendiya. Perhaps this Deity holds the key?

Dear Ibrahiim,

I stand corrected on this creature, the one with the Lion head.

Michael Backman has provided information about these swords and the Serapendiya when displayed in his gallery. The bibliography he provides will I am sure offer great insight in to art and armour from these regions as his reading/library list is impeccable.

Gavin

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Dear Ibrahiim

Sorry if you are offended by my using your name as Balooshi. I was not aware that it was in any way offensive to you. my regrets on this one. shall call you Ibrahiim from now on. My sincere apologies...

For whoever is interested I provided a rather basic outline of the main figures on a kasthana hilt based on the traditional Sinhala presentation of beast forms on my post dated 6th Oct 2012 Including Lion Makara and Serapendiya.

regards

Prasanna

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

I stand corrected on this creature, the one with the Lion head.

Michael Backman has provided information about these swords and the Serapendiya when displayed in his gallery. The bibliography he provides will I am sure offer great insight in to art and armour from these regions as his reading/library list is impeccable.

Gavin


Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons` Yes he knows his stuff .. thanks for the reply. On the picture you posted this was very much on cue... I was just investigating the Serapendiya...then your picture appeared... though it had been alluded to way back...I didn't have a clue about it..

Frankly I haven't seen two absolutely exact copies of these sword hilts .. they all have a certain degree of artistic impression and being hand carved mythical themes that is hardly surprising.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

This truly has developed into a great discussion, and I'm glad this thread has been revived as it seems we are getting some excellent traction in examining the peculiarities of these fascinating swords. I would like to say that I sincerely appreciate the courtesy and candor you guys display in what are often considerably opposing views, and personally I would consider this discourse a discussion rather than 'debate'.
The purpose of debate is in my perception altogether different and is an exercise in presenting and defending with support , opposed views with the objective of having a winner and loser in more of a contest and display of skills in conflict.

Here I consider what we intend to achieve is fact finding and presenting plausible ideas and observations which add to the collective knowledge toward better understanding of the weapons we investigate.

In my own personal view, there are many potential answers here as to the zoomorphic figures represented on these examples of the 'kasthane' as with most weapon forms, the scope of variations is broad. There were no hard and fast rules or 'patterns' followed, though obviously there was a degree of set tradition as with these creatures, and these are interpretive as represented by the artisans over periods of time, different regions and nuanced desires of prospective clients for their arms.

As with many weapon forms which evolve into more vestigial forms with purposes outside the obviously combative origins, such as those which become court, dress or presentation swords, and in the cases in context of examples becoming religiously oriented for ceremony or votives...so too did the kasthane become more decorative and courtly.

It seems the first provenance example is that acquired in the Japanese voyage which returned to Japan in 1620. This embassy is of course well documented and while the sword itself was not acquired in Sinhala proper, but from Spanish source I believe. I am unclear on what location that interaction took place, but the distinct zoomorphic pommel head was in place by 1615 it would seem. As the sword was acquired by the Spanish royal court some time earlier, it would seem that kasthane of this form were present by at least late 16th c .

Looking into the extremely complex and diverse circumstances in then Sinhala gives numerous possibilities for the nature of the pommel heads and creatures on these swords, and it is interesting to note similar forms in South India and into the Deccan. If I am not mistaken many examples of swords remarkably similar to kasthane exist from Thailand and Deccan, among others . Perhaps these outer influences account for some of the variations in these pommel heads, and in some cases they are indeed makara, while some are lions. Deraniyagala (1942) notes the auspicious creatures and symbols favored for such decorative purposes, and the lion is distinctly noted, but among others and interestingly the makara is not mentioned.

I think that the complexity of the ethnic mix and infusions from the mainland in addition to the colonial circumstances later, as well as the diffusion of the form into the trade networks , truly makes any arbitary classification or exacting analysis of these zoomorphic forms virtually impossible. In the broad scope I believe each example must be considered on its own merits, and as mentioned, the nature of the creature represented may lead to clues on the origin of the sword as in the examples outside Sri Lanka.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim

Sorry if you are offended by my using your name as Balooshi. I was not aware that it was in any way offensive to you. my regrets on this one. shall call you Ibrahiim from now on. My sincere apologies...

For whoever is interested I provided a rather basic outline of the main figures on a kasthana hilt based on the traditional Sinhala presentation of beast forms on my post dated 6th Oct 2012 Including Lion Makara and Serapendiya.

regards

Prasanna


Salaams PrasannaWeerakkody ~ Thank you for your posts and oddly enough I was actually reading back through and noted your reference to the Serapendiya and had already started looking into the link.

You have no idea how important it is to have such a specialist as yourself actually in country . It is so important. We have made staggering gains on the detail now on library which if you look back to #1 you will see where the start point was...at least on this thread.

I was amazed to learn from the anecdotal 1807 detail that the weapon was in fact also used as a badge of rank identifier and was at that time being produced in the Royal Sword workshops.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[VANDOO]

MANKIND HAS ALWAYS HAD A FACINATION WITH REAL CREATURES THAT ARE DANGEROUS LIONS (THE KING OF BEASTS), TIGERS, LEOPARDS, BEARS,BULLS, SNAKES, SHARKS ECT. WHEN PEOPLE TRAVELED AND TOLD STORIES ABOUT THESE CREATURES TO PEOPLE WHO HAD NEVER SEEN ONE THE STORIES WERE OFTEN EXAGERATED WHEN TOLD. THEN MORE STORIES MADE UP UNTIL THE CREATURE BECAME MORE THAN REAL AND MONSTERS WERE CREATED. SO A LION WOULD NOT HAVE EVER BEEN IN CEYLON FOR STORIES OF IT TO HAVE ARRIVED. NO DOUBT AS THE KING OF BEASTS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPRESSIVE AND HAVE MANY POWERS.
THE MONSTER WITH THE BIRDS BODY IS MOST LIKELY THE COCATRICE. THIS MYTH WAS CREATED AND SUPPOSIDLY WAS THE RESULT OF A COCK AND A SNAKE LAYING AN EGG AND HATCHING THIS MONSTER. ITS BREATH WAS DEADLY POSION AND IF IT LOOKED AT A PERSON THEY WOULD TURN TO STONE. THERE ARE EVEN INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO PROTECT YOURSELF OR TO DESTROY ONE. :rolleyes:
ALL THIS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT NEVER EXHISTED AND IS DIFFERENT LOOKING FROM COUNTRY TO COUNTRY.
THE MAKARAS ORIGIN WAS NO DOUBT IN HINDU AND BUDDHIST COUNTRIES AND HAS THE ATRIBUTES OF SEVERAL ANIMALS AS WELL AS MYSTICAL POWERS. THE LION LIKELY CAME AS STORIES FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHO TRADED THERE. WHEN THE PORTUGESE OR OTHER COUNTRIES TOOK POWER PERHAPS THE LION WAS SEEN AS MORE POWERFUL AS A RESULT AND ASCENDED IN PLACE TO THE SWORDS POMMEL.
THE ANSWERS ARE LOST IN TIME BUT IT DOES MAKE FOR A GOOD DISCUSSION AND IT DOSEN'T REALLY MATTER LION OR MAKARA WE EACH CAN CALL IT WHAT WE WILL. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This truly has developed into a great discussion, and I'm glad this thread has been revived as it seems we are getting some excellent traction in examining the peculiarities of these fascinating swords. I would like to say that I sincerely appreciate the courtesy and candor you guys display in what are often considerably opposing views, and personally I would consider this discourse a discussion rather than 'debate'.
The purpose of debate is in my perception altogether different and is an exercise in presenting and defending with support , opposed views with the objective of having a winner and loser in more of a contest and display of skills in conflict.

Here I consider what we intend to achieve is fact finding and presenting plausible ideas and observations which add to the collective knowledge toward better understanding of the weapons we investigate.

In my own personal view, there are many potential answers here as to the zoomorphic figures represented on these examples of the 'kasthane' as with most weapon forms, the scope of variations is broad. There were no hard and fast rules or 'patterns' followed, though obviously there was a degree of set tradition as with these creatures, and these are interpretive as represented by the artisans over periods of time, different regions and nuanced desires of prospective clients for their arms.

As with many weapon forms which evolve into more vestigial forms with purposes outside the obviously combative origins, such as those which become court, dress or presentation swords, and in the cases in context of examples becoming religiously oriented for ceremony or votives...so too did the kasthane become more decorative and courtly.

It seems the first provenance example is that acquired in the Japanese voyage which returned to Japan in 1620. This embassy is of course well documented and while the sword itself was not acquired in Sinhala proper, but from Spanish source I believe. I am unclear on what location that interaction took place, but the distinct zoomorphic pommel head was in place by 1615 it would seem. As the sword was acquired by the Spanish royal court some time earlier, it would seem that kasthane of this form were present by at least late 16th c .

Looking into the extremely complex and diverse circumstances in then Sinhala gives numerous possibilities for the nature of the pommel heads and creatures on these swords, and it is interesting to note similar forms in South India and into the Deccan. If I am not mistaken many examples of swords remarkably similar to kasthane exist from Thailand and Deccan, among others . Perhaps these outer influences account for some of the variations in these pommel heads, and in some cases they are indeed makara, while some are lions. Deraniyagala (1942) notes the auspicious creatures and symbols favored for such decorative purposes, and the lion is distinctly noted, but among others and interestingly the makara is not mentioned.

I think that the complexity of the ethnic mix and infusions from the mainland in addition to the colonial circumstances later, as well as the diffusion of the form into the trade networks , truly makes any arbitary classification or exacting analysis of these zoomorphic forms virtually impossible. In the broad scope I believe each example must be considered on its own merits, and as mentioned, the nature of the creature represented may lead to clues on the origin of the sword as in the examples outside Sri Lanka.

Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post. Your consideration of the late 16th C seems plausible.
The presentation to the Japanese was apparently in the Philippines..see the map above. # 169. The blade looks European but I cant make out enough of its detail, though, it is said to have stamps on the blade. Perhaps that one and the Popham item are worth considering to see if they are from the same form thus perhaps the same workshop. Which brings me to my next point concerning artistic licence ...As you point out~ every artisan has their own idea moreover having a drawing is one thing but applying it to carving with horn or wood is another dimension; Each "Rankadu Pattala" (Royal Workshops) master craftsman interpreting the ancient culture in their own way.

In the same breath that is similar to the descriptive licence used by various agencies these days in writing about the Kastane Hilt as variously; Gargoyle, Dragon, Mythical creatures, Lions, Makara or Serapendiya ..all very interesting.

Equally you are right about the thread which is an excellent pool of detailed information and discussion.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gustav]

My point is I have no records nor have any surfaced as yet of blades with stamps or markings, which, for a blade said to have possibly been made in a joint Portuguese Sri Lankan workshop is odd. At any rate my comment is purely speculative in this regard as you will note it is only a suggestion..but your post is excellent and inspires a look into the Japanese presentation item.

Here is the weapon you speak of.. I cant see a blade mark but assume an European blade here...see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga

Described as; Indonesian kris and Ceylonese dagger (acquired in the Philippines), presented by Hasekura to Date Masamune upon his return; Sendai City Museum

Pictures of swords said to have been acquired in the Philippines and dated map of his travels. 1620 being key; Given the weapons at that time in the Philippines.


Dear Ibrahim,

regarding the information from Wikipedia regarding the travel of Hasekura Tsunenaga and acquisition of the weapons:

Actually he was leaving Spain in June 1617, so the 1616 on the map from wikipedia is a mistake.

The only scholar publications I am aware, which raise the question about provenance of keris and kastane are "A fundamental study on Hasekura's kastane and kris" (Bulletin of Sendai City Museum) and "The kastane and the kris, their arrival in Japan in 1620" (in Royal Armouries Yearbook, vol. 3, Leeds), both written by Sasaki Kazuhiro, curator of Sendai City Museum, in 1998. Before there are only two publications of Sendai City Museum from 1988 and 1995.

Sasaki Kazuhiro has the oppinion, both keris and kastane are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga by Philip III. Here in short he's points and other interesting details:

Among the 52 mementos that Hasekura brought to Japan, only three were presented to Date clan: portrait of Pope Paul V, kastane and keris.

Date Masamune drafted official letters only to Pope, the mayor of Sevilla and King Philipp III.

Masamune allowed Hasekura to take care of all official contacts with dignitaries in other countries.

Masamune obviously had great interest in the messages and gifts these figures bestoved on Hasekura.

Then Sasaki Kazuhiro writes:

"If we suppose Masamune requested only the articles from the three men he deemed most critical, then the two swords should have come from one of these three men. (...) it seems much more likely the Namban swords were a gift from Philipp III. This would also explain the reason these gifts made their way to the Masamune collection, while presents from dignitaries in other locales were allowed to remain in the Hasekura collection.

(...) Certainly, Philipp III knew Date Masamune would be pleased with the presentation of the swords, as he had been presented eight armours and one sword by Shogun Tokugawa Hidetada and the former Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu as a sign of friendship between the two countries. Howewer, he could not present Spanish arms to Date Masamune because the presentation of Spanish arms to a foreigner was then prohibited by law."

Here are the detail pictures of this kastane. The blade of it is the only straight one I have seen fitted as a Kastane and is a very interesting one. There are two markings on this blade, and one of them clearly is of christian origin, yet I suppose, we could conclude with some certainty that the whole blade isn't made in Europe. Curiously enough, its decoration and fullering reminds me of some chinese swords, like the one in book of Robert Hales, page 197; - yet the chinese blades of this type are (always?) slightly curved.

It is perhaps not widely known, yet Sri Lanka was nominally a vasal state of the Ming Imperium from 1411 on, and sent three more ambassys to China, 1436, 1445 and 1459.

Regarding the central pommel figure, it almost always is clearly a lion indeed. There is a fair amount of objects made of ivory from Sri Lanka, which entered the european "Kunstkammer" collections at the end of the 16 century. Lion always plays a prominent character and is stylistically very close to the pommel figure of this kastane. The one depicted was acquired before 1542.

And here a link to the post of Prasanna Weerakkody, which is quite informative indeed:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=146109&postcount=23

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahim,

regarding the information from Wikipedia regarding the travel of Hasekura Tsunenaga and acquisition of the weapons:

Actually he was leaving Spain in June 1617, so the 1616 on the map from wikipedia is a mistake.

The only scholar publications I am aware, which raise the question about provenance of keris and kastane are "A fundamental study on Hasekura's kastane and kris" (Bulletin of Sendai City Museum) and "The kastane and the kris, their arrival in Japan in 1620" (in Royal Armouries Yearbook, vol. 3, Leeds), both written by Sasaki Kazuhiro, curator of Sendai City Museum, in 1998. Before there are only two publications of Sendai City Museum from 1988 and 1995.

Sasaki Kazuhiro has the oppinion, both keris and kastane are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga by Philip III. Here in short he's points and other interesting details:

Among the 52 mementos that Hasekura brought to Japan, only three were presented to Date clan: portrait of Pope Paul V, kastane and keris.

Date Masamune drafted official letters only to Pope, the mayor of Sevilla and King Philipp III.

Masamune allowed Hasekura to take care of all official contacts with dignitaries in other countries.

Masamune obviously had great interest in the messages and gifts these figures bestoved on Hasekura.

Then Sasaki Kazuhiro writes:

"If we suppose Masamune requested only the articles from the three men he deemed most critical, then the two swords should have come from one of these three men. (...) it seems much more likely the Namban swords were a gift from Philipp III. This would also explain the reason these gifts made their way to the Masamune collection, while presents from dignitaries in other locales were allowed to remain in the Hasekura collection.

(...) Certainly, Philipp III knew Date Masamune would be pleased with the presentation of the swords, as he had been presented eight armours and one sword by Shogun Tokugawa Hidetada and the former Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu as a sign of friendship between the two countries. Howewer, he could not present Spanish arms to Date Masamune because the presentation of Spanish arms to a foreigner was then prohibited by law."

Here are the detail pictures of this kastane. The blade of it is the only straight one I have seen fitted as a Kastane and is a very interesting one. There are two markings on this blade, and one of them clearly is of christian origin, yet I suppose, we could conclude with some certainty that the whole blade isn't made in Europe. Curiously enough, its decoration and fullering reminds me of some chinese swords, like the one in book of Robert Hales, page 197; - yet the chinese blades of this type are (always?) slightly curved.

It is perhaps not widely known, yet Sri Lanka was nominally a vasal state of the Ming Imperium from 1411 on, and sent three more ambassys to China, 1436, 1445 and 1459.

Regarding the central pommel figure, it almost always is clearly a lion indeed. There is a fair amount of objects made of ivory from Sri Lanka, which entered the european "Kunstkammer" collections at the end of the 16 century. Lion always plays a prominent character and is stylistically very close to the pommel figure of this kastane. The one depicted was acquired before 1542.

And here a link to the post of Prasanna Weerakkody, which is quite informative indeed:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost.php?p=146109&postcount=23


Salaams Gustav, That is so brilliant. I cannot thank you enough for this excellent supporting detail. Not only finely written but the excellent pictures are so helpful in this discussion. Thank you Sir !

Pictures 3, 4, 5, appear to display 3. Lion. 4.Serapendiya. 5.Makara.

The marks on the blade will have us diving for the books!

The Hilt form comprises the Gargoyle style influenced by the mythical Lion, Makara or other ancient Buddhist Deities with supporting smaller dragons, miniature Makara or Nagas on the finials thereafter.

Blade form...The blade marks to one side for a moment.. I have to say my first impression on blade shape is not Sri Lankan but Chinese..which begs the question ...Were the Chinese importing Kastane or exporting the form? They were certainly involved as you point out... and we know the trade patterns of Chinese junks even to the Red Sea...Did the Kastane now in the Japanese Museum arrive in the Philipines by Chinese ship. If it was delivered to the Philipines which way did it come from? Was it brought from Sri Lanka direct or via the long way round across the Atlantic?

The Spanish East Indies were ruled as part of the Viceroyalty of New Spain and administered from Mexico City from 1565 to 1821.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ Or Storta !!
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Gustav,

Thank you for bringing these detailed images forth and indeed Prasanna Weerakkody's post you linked is quite informative and well founded from the start.

Dear Ibrihiim,
In the same breath that is similar to the descriptive licence used by various agencies these days in writing about the Kastane Hilt as variously; Gargoyle, Dragon, Mythical creatures, Lions, Makara or Serapendiya ..all very interesting.
The Hilt form comprises the Gargoyle style influenced by the mythical Lion, Makara or other ancient Buddhist Deities with supporting smaller dragons, miniature Makara or Nagas on the finials thereafter.
Where are you now going with Gargoyles and Dragons?
Steer away from what you read "these days" unless the writings have direct reference and support from the old days.
With respect, I feel the these days experiences, writings and beliefs has clouded the reality of strong fighting sword types in your Oman dance sword thread...but back on point.

Hasn't the discussion confirmed that the pommel is the Lion head, not a gargoyle influenced by the Lions head, I hope you are not now jumping from Makaras to Gargoyles...happy to work through the remainded of the icons and what creature owns the Lion head along with what appears on the quillons, quillon block and knuckle bow, followed by the blade types and perhaps any meanings and if required the scabbards found on the Kastane...but to do so we need to agree on a single sword to study and discuss to keep things on point, then once satisfied, bring other swords in to the discussion to add merit to what is found or add varient notes and study these varients.

I'd like to also add that whilst both misleading and valuable information has been gained in this thread, the focus has singlely become the Kastane hilt that lead to over a year of walking down the garden path. The initial thread/question posted was about the swords of Sri lanka, perhaps we can diverse a little and consider other types too. Some very fine images have already been provided but the focus of the topic has been lost to the Kastane alone.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Gustav,

Thank you for bringing these detailed images forth and indeed Prasanna Weerakkody's post you linked is quite informative and well founded from the start.

Dear Ibrihiim,


Where are you now going with Gargoyles and Dragons?
Steer away from what you read "these days" unless the writings have direct reference and support from the old days.
With respect, I feel the these days experiences, writings and beliefs has clouded the reality of strong fighting sword types in your Oman dance sword thread...but back on point.

Hasn't the discussion confirmed that the pommel is the Lion head, not a gargoyle influenced by the Lions head, I hope you are not now jumping from Makaras to Gargoyles...happy to work through the remainded of the icons and what creature owns the Lion head along with what appears on the quillons, quillon block and knuckle bow, followed by the blade types and perhaps any meanings and if required the scabbards found on the Kastane...but to do so we need to agree on a single sword to study and discuss to keep things on point, then once satisfied, bring other swords in to the discussion to add merit to what is found or add varient notes and study these varients.

I'd like to also add that whilst both misleading and valuable information has been gained in this thread, the focus has singlely become the Kastane hilt that lead to over a year of walking down the garden path. The initial thread/question posted was about the swords of Sri lanka, perhaps we can diverse a little and consider other types too. Some very fine images have already been provided but the focus of the topic has been lost to the Kastane alone.

Gavin


Salaams ...SwordsAntiqueWeapons Yes, you are advised to stick to the point as mixing the two is not going to assist this case and certainly of no value in the other.

I don't want to list the heap of notes from auctioneers museums and Kastane descriptions offering the variety of explanations on the style... it runs to a lot... when in fact my simple array covers most of them as Gargoyles
Mythical creature Makara, Lion, Naga, Seren...etc etc ... which is a reasonable way to describe this phenomena since at the end of the day it is an artisans impression thus no two are identical...and indeed there were many artisans.

This thread is about the Kastane. If you wish to diversify please carry on~ the ink is free... but I would consider if I were you ... in the case of another sword, opening a new thread... unless it be related to the Kastane.

There are great new avenues opening not least the new information hitherto not recorded on library except in passing... like the fine details just recieved on the Japanese Museum item and the anecdotal evidence from 1807 etc etc making this thread far from a stroll down the same path alluded to by you.. and marked by the high readership of now more than 13,000 hits...so somebody is reading the thread, no?

All input is very much appreciated and it should be remembered that this is a joint forum effort and that there is a lot more to do.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gustav]

It's, how should I say... "gargoyling" also at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastane

[Gavin Nugent]

Dear Ibrihiim,

Please refer to the first post, the thread starter is actually wanting to know about swords from the country, not just the kastane in its solitude...but I guess your blinkers are on again...like the lack of direct answers to my questions posed to you.

The duality of your comments vs actions, ie, of your long winded threads about Makara pommels leading to the depths of god knows where to now wanting to reduce data placed in the pages by simply addressing the important mythical creatures to Gargoyles and again completely overlooking the importance of the Sri Lankan Lion motifs surprises me greatly.

I am not aware of why you would want to draw from every auctioneer and sales point about how they describe the kastane...I think you misunderstood what I wrote.

Ibrihiim, please, and I am not detracting from the importance of this discussion forum and the members efforts, but please understand 13000+ people have not read this thread. The counter to the sidebar is a hits counter...only the forum owners would be able to drill down the urchin statistics and advise on dwell time by readers etc...this is how the internet works...12000 of the hits may have only been a 2 minute search by readers who found the thread through key words searches...no doubt now misinformed about important icons.

It is at this point that I opt out of this discussion and perhaps I will come back n another 12 months. Best of luck with Gargoyles and Dragons.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrihiim,

Please refer to the first post, the thread starter is actually wanting to know about swords from the country, not just the kastane in its solitude...but I guess your blinkers are on again...like the lack of direct answers to my questions posed to you.

The duality of your comments vs actions, ie, of your long winded threads about Makara pommels leading to the depths of god knows where to now wanting to reduce data placed in the pages by simply addressing the important mythical creatures to Gargoyles and again completely overlooking the importance of the Sri Lankan Lion motifs surprises me greatly.

I am not aware of why you would want to draw from every auctioneer and sales point about how they describe the kastane...I think you misunderstood what I wrote.

Ibrihiim, please, and I am not detracting from the importance of this discussion forum and the members efforts, but please understand 13000+ people have not read this thread. The counter to the sidebar is a hits counter...only the forum owners would be able to drill down the urchin statistics and advise on dwell time by readers etc...this is how the internet works...12000 of the hits may have only been a 2 minute search by readers who found the thread through key words searches...no doubt now misinformed about important icons.

It is at this point that I opt out of this discussion and perhaps I will come back n another 12 months. Best of luck with Gargoyles and Dragons.

Gavin


Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons. It is noted that you have opted out of this thread but sadly for the wrong reasons since I have broadened the descriptive wording in describing the Kastane Hilt to encompass the rich mythical style inherited from Buddhism and in blending the variety of Deities including Makara, Lions, Kirtimukha Serapendiya, Nagas, crocodile/human monsters and other dragon and gargoyle like effigies ...and according to the artistic idiosyncrasies of the day plus realizing that no two artists may interpret a monster like form in exactly the same way. Then there is the added function of form change where depending from which viewpoint it may be observed the mythical beast may be in one of 5 different forms...So understandably there is some discussion.

Not participating, whilst it is your free choice, is regrettable but hopefully you will rejoin at some stage as your input has been much appreciated...and as I have noted ... If you want to branch out and include any weapon related to ... or in the broader context of #1 any weapons in the Sri Lankan armoury...the ink is free... here or another thread its entirely up to you.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It's, how should I say... "gargoyling" also at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastane


Salaams Gustav... For what its worth I have never seen two descriptions the same... and for that matter no two Kastane the same ...Here are a few from important museums collectors and specialists but there are scores more all placing into the rich descriptive mixture a host of different images. I think the description at your reference is fairly near the artistic licence required to balance the equation. It ought to be as it took me a while to write !

The Victoria and Albert Museum.
Vand A;The kastane is the national sword of Sri Lanka. It typically has a short curved single-edged blade, double-edged at the point. The hilt comprises a knuckle-guard and down-turned quillons, each terminating in a dragon's head. The swords were intended to serve as badges of rank; the quality of ornamentation depending on the status of the wearer.The establishment of European trading contacts with South Asia by the late 16th and early 17th century led to these swords becoming fashionable dress accessories among European gentlemen.

St Petersberg 1850…Mounted in heavily cast and chased silver-gilt, the hilt in traditional Sinhalese style elaborately decorated with guilloche, fluting and panels of engraved foliage and florets, with the pommel and quillon formed as the stylised heads of lions and the ogee-shaped knucklebow emerging at the quillon from the mouth of a beast and terminating at the pommel in the stylised head of a dragon, the eyes of all the beasts on the hilt formed of cabochon-cut garnets or rubies.

Chrispties ~A SINHALESE SWORD (KASTANE) SRI LANKA, 18TH CENTURY
With curved single-edged inscribed blade with single fuller along the back-edge on each side, the decoration with foliated scrolls, the wood and bronze hilt with applied silver and brass panels, the guard of characteristic form with openwork head of a mythical beast, the grip carved with scrollwork and with dragon's head pommel.

Robert Elgood. From The earliest kastane of this form that can be accurately dated was taken to Japan in 1630 where it still exists. The form scarcely changes over the next two hundred years. The pommel is invariably decorated with the snub-nosed Sinhalese lion while the lion-like serapendiya is found on the quillon and guard ends. Most kastane blades were made locally but some utilise cut down European sword blades. Kastane were symbols of rank and later examples take the same form but are covered in sheet silver and inset with precious stones whilst the blades become ornamental.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

Salaams Gustav... For what its worth I have never seen two descriptions the same... and for that matter no two Kastane the same ...Here are a few from important museums collectors and specialists but there are scores more all placing into the rich descriptive mixture a host of different images. I think the description at your reference is fairly near the artistic licence required to balance the equation. It ought to be as it took me a while to write !
Ibrahiim, are you saying that you wrote the Wikipedia page for the kastane that Gustav linked to above? I hope not because it is the epitome of why Wikipedia is so distained though out most of the academic world. This short entry provides very little real information other than description of what a kastane looks like, something which could be achieved far better simply by making a google image search to look at all the fine visual examples available on the internet. The article also provides absolutely no scholarly references or footnotes, a no-no even for Wikipedia pages, only providing links to mostly commercial sites. BTW, the Antique Roadshow (from the link on this entry) is notoriously bad at assessing ethnographic arms. I had to school them on keris when i went to the Roadshow and i was just in discussion with a guy who said they told him his Javanese keris was and archaic Moro kris. While the guy in the kastane link didn't seem to say anything particularly wrong in his appraisal he added no information regarding the symbolism of the hilt whatsoever.
Pointing to your "important museums collectors and specialists", the first description (Victoria & Albert Museum) is describing the ends of the quillons as "dragon heads", not the pommel. Seems to me these quillon beasts are generally makara or serapendiya in most examples i've seen, but this entry says nothing of the pommel, which seems to be the point of the most heated discussions here.
I'm afraid i have no idea what "St. Peterberg 1850" is supposed to be, but they clearly refer to the pommel as a stylized lion head just as so many others here have already maintained. It is again the quillon ends that are described as dragon heads and again, we here all seem to know better and recognize them as makara or serapendiya.
Chrispties (i can only assume that you meant Christie's) is a renown auction house that sells any sort of antiques and other items of value. As such they are really more "generalists" than "specialists" and i have found that auction houses in general are notoriously misinformed on ethnographic edged weapons so i am not at all surprised that they would misidentify the kastane pommel as a dragon head. Auction houses are most concerned with getting the highest price possible for the items they auction. Accurate descriptions do not always factor into that equation.
Robert Elgood's entry is really the only entry worthy of consideration here as it comes from an established and generally well received and excepted reference book on the subject of ethnographic weapons. Note that Elgood states that the pommel is invariably decorated with the snub-nosed Sinhalese lion, something which i believe at this point most of us seem to understand as true.
I'm not sure where you want to take this thread at this point Ibrahiim, as long-standing members who have tried to stay with this discussion for so long begin to flee, but i think that at this point you are, to coin a phrase,"beating a dead gargoyle". :shrug: :)

[Jim McDougall]

This discussion continues to become more fascinating, for me personally because it has returned me to research from over 15 years ago on the kasthane which I realize now was dramatically incomplete. I do recall the material on the Keicho mission and Hasekura, and I cannot thank Gustav enough for posting this keenly important data and those remarkably telling images.

Also important are the details about the connections to Ming China in the 15th century. Clearly Sri Lanka was a profoundly important trade center far back in history and the study of this history is extremely complex as well as essential in truly understanding the networks and influences involved here.

The only data I have on the Hasekura reference is a news article of 1998 by Dr. de Silva of the National Museum. In this he notes some of the material mentioned in the articles posted by Gustav, and that there were a number of kasthane with carved ivory hilts (examples in the V&A in London and another in Belgium) which date from about 1415-67 . He describes the head as sinha (=lion), and this would set the terminus post quem for these hilts at least to c.1415 with sinha or lions heads.

With regard to the blade on the Hasekura kasthane I think Ibrahiim has made a remarkable suggestion, that this is either an Italian storta blade or one heavily influenced by them. As has been noted, this blade shape which is relatively broad and with a peak and yelman toward the tip is very much like Chinese dao blades, however these are typically later.

What seems plausible is the blade profile seen on this example, which is set in the period of the Hasekura mission (returned to Japan 1620) is of Venetian storta shape . The markings, the crowned N in particular , appear to be in an Italian 'style' and at the forte, the blocked ricasso form seems quite evident on Italian swords.
With this I checked "Armi Bianchi Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, Milan, 1975) and as I opened to #386, I was stunned as I viewed that example of storta with virtually the same blade, and examples #387 and #388 all the same and all had either human or zoomorphic lion heads. These are shown as rm Venice c.1550-54. The hilts are simple 'S' guard (opposed up and down quillons) but essentially the same system as the kastane without the central downturned quillons at the blade.

As Anthony North well explained in his 1975 article ("A Late 15th Century Italian Sword", Connoisseuer Dec 1975 p.239) these Italian swords are remarkably linked to the nimchas of North Africa and as far east as Ceylon as he cites Charles Buttin ("Les Poignards et les Sabres Marocains", Hesperis, Tome XXVI, 1939) who drew the same theories.

Clearly Sri Lanka was well known from far earlier times and referred to as Taprobane by the Greeks, later Serandib by the Arabs and by 1505 Ceilao by the Portuguese. The range of trade with Venice is well known as well, as well as their contacts with China, Arabs, India, North Africa etc. and as we have seen, the Ming dynasty was linked with Ceylon as early as the 15th century.

I am tempted to consider the remarkable similarities of the dragon like 'fu dogs' or lions in China, though admittedly a free association thought which comes to mind as we factor in China here. We also have the possibility of provenance examples of lion head pommel kasthane as early as 15th c. (as mentioned by deSilva in his 1998 article).

We now see a blade of clearly storta form deriving from Venice, whether fitered through from China or direct contact and from mid 16th century.
We cannot help but wonder if perhaps these European zoomorphic hilts might have derived from oriental influences rather than vice versa.

I think here the key point of our discussion is the general hilt form of the sword we know as the kasthane and its development. It is clear that the stylized monster or zoomorphic pommel head has experienced dramatic license in the profoundly wide range of these hilts, and as J.F Pieris ("A Royal Dagger from Ceylon", Connoisseur, 1938. p.24) has observed the mystical creatures portrayed on the elements of these hilts, in this case referring primarily to the serepediya, the decorative qualities have been freely exploited by the artisans.

Therefore I would recommend once again that we continue the discussion with focus more on the development on the sword form itself, and that the nature or identification of the creatures represented be confined to each variant example itself. We should avoid broad assertions on the nature of these decorative elements concerning the kasthane overall, especially considering the volatility of the geopolitical status of Sri Lanka through so many centuries of history, as well as the well clouded circumstances of colonial intervention .



Addendum:
In further looking through Boccia & Coelho, the basic structure of these hilts in Italy becomes apparent in examples of storta and early schiavona (c. 1480-1500) with upward and downward quillons on crossguard and branched upswept knuckleguard. The inner 'crab claw' type appendages which become entirely vestigial on the kastane hilts in general seem to reflect these from a number of Italian and even Nasrid hist types.
Most of the Italian examples I viewed were those of mid to end of 16th c. but the shiavona type carries back to c.1480, so the quillon system seems quite old, but essentially Italian.
Re: the markings, the use of capital M with cross and orb over it occurred and the flueret design used with it similar to many quillon terminals seen.
DeSilva noted that Thom Richardson stated he thought the letter on the Hasekura blade indicated ownership rather than a makers mark.

[KuKulzA28]

This thread rapidly went down an interesting path.

I would like to add to Jim's post with the fact that this thread is intended for not just kastane, but also all other Sri Lankan sword forms. I think there were narrow "cutlass" with "d-guards" that were more common in more recent times, and various ancient forms... but my knowledge of all this is very limited. And, it is my impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that especially in the latter days of the kastane, it was less of an actually widespread fighting weapon than a symbol of rank, authority, and status... and the quality of the blade declined... where-as other sword forms were more popular in the days that swords (and spear, bow, cudgel..) were widespread and popular weapons in Sri Lanka...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim, are you saying that you wrote the Wikipedia page for the kastane that Gustav linked to above? I hope not because it is the epitome of why Wikipedia is so distained though out most of the academic world. This short entry provides very little real information other than description of what a kastane looks like, something which could be achieved far better simply by making a google image search to look at all the fine visual examples available on the internet. The article also provides absolutely no scholarly references or footnotes, a no-no even for Wikipedia pages, only providing links to mostly commercial sites. BTW, the Antique Roadshow (from the link on this entry) is notoriously bad at assessing ethnographic arms. I had to school them on keris when i went to the Roadshow and i was just in discussion with a guy who said they told him his Javanese keris was and archaic Moro kris. While the guy in the kastane link didn't seem to say anything particularly wrong in his appraisal he added no information regarding the symbolism of the hilt whatsoever.
Pointing to your "important museums collectors and specialists", the first description (Victoria & Albert Museum) is describing the ends of the quillons as "dragon heads", not the pommel. Seems to me these quillon beasts are generally makara or serapendiya in most examples i've seen, but this entry says nothing of the pommel, which seems to be the point of the most heated discussions here.
I'm afraid i have no idea what "St. Peterberg 1850" is supposed to be, but they clearly refer to the pommel as a stylized lion head just as so many others here have already maintained. It is again the quillon ends that are described as dragon heads and again, we here all seem to know better and recognize them as makara or serapendiya.
Chrispties (i can only assume that you meant Christie's) is a renown auction house that sells any sort of antiques and other items of value. As such they are really more "generalists" than "specialists" and i have found that auction houses in general are notoriously misinformed on ethnographic edged weapons so i am not at all surprised that they would misidentify the kastane pommel as a dragon head. Auction houses are most concerned with getting the highest price possible for the items they auction. Accurate descriptions do not always factor into that equation.
Robert Elgood's entry is really the only entry worthy of consideration here as it comes from an established and generally well received and excepted reference book on the subject of ethnographic weapons. Note that Elgood states that the pommel is invariably decorated with the snub-nosed Sinhalese lion, something which i believe at this point most of us seem to understand as true.
I'm not sure where you want to take this thread at this point Ibrahiim, as long-standing members who have tried to stay with this discussion for so long begin to flee, but i think that at this point you are, to coin a phrase,"beating a dead gargoyle". :shrug: :)

Salaams David, Your post is bewildering. You continue to describe the ranks of forum members fleeing this thread (when in fact there is one only who has decided to call it a day for now. )

The Wikepedia link is by no means complete and it will mature as the detail comes in. I have planned a pictorial account though at the moment as you must surely appreciate there are conflicting Hilt styles as described ... and for example I can show a monster Hilt form and a Lion Hilt looking form... Right now, for example, I am looking at the two earlier extant variants which look like each being drawn from different Deities (the Japanese Museum and the art work of the Popham Armour)... maybe they were made in a different workshop and by different artists and with a slightly irregular idea in their minds of what Deity to fashion... artistic impression?

On the various comments by auction houses I cannot fathom your criticism since I never said they were written in stone...these are simply descriptions..and there are many more examples ...which was the reason for their inclusion..as having added to the conundrum. The inclusion of the Russian source at St Petersburg is easy to comprehend but I will add to that to clarify where a sword thus marked has arrived from... see https://www.pinterest.com/karleighvestal/swords/.
By the way, without wishing to jump to the defence of auction houses, these big outfits often have superb research departments and highly specialized people therein.

Obviously the Elgood description is placed for accuracy but also to show the generic wording often used in the Kastane Hilt descriptions.

In reference to links on Wikepedia I beg to differ Sir, since the finest reference to the developing story is of our own Forum and this thread.

I don't think I am beating a dead horse moreover your comment may be misunderstood since we usually give constructive criticism and this is certainly not. The thread is progressing, albeit slowly, and as contributors we have a duty to expose the facts especially in an area so badly illuminated before.

Regarding the term Gargoyle please simply type into web search the term Makara Gargoyle then after that is considered type in Lion Gargoyle..Do you not then think that Gargoyle is a reasonable descriptive? I would add the word Grotesque as well.

The following are very recently added so how can you say the thread is not progressing? viz;

1.The excellent detail already exhumed plus the added details on "Rankadu Pattala" and the 1807 revelation that the sword was considered as a rank indicator are facts not well laid out before.

2.The detail on the Japanese Museum piece perhaps showing the blade mark now being traced is fascinating.

3.The Extraordinary blade possibly Storta is a delight to see... and ponder over.

4.The new picture of the Sri Lankan VIP wearing the Kastane is amazing.

I still have the drive determination and effort to continue even if others have not for now... and in an effort to display encouragement to others ... members and non members alike I continue to shine a light into the dark corners of this subject.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This thread rapidly went down an interesting path.

I would like to add to Jim's post with the fact that this thread is intended for not just kastane, but also all other Sri Lankan sword forms. I think there were narrow "cutlass" with "d-guards" that were more common in more recent times, and various ancient forms... but my knowledge of all this is very limited. And, it is my impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that especially in the latter days of the kastane, it was less of an actually widespread fighting weapon than a symbol of rank, authority, and status... and the quality of the blade declined... where-as other sword forms were more popular in the days that swords (and spear, bow, cudgel..) were widespread and popular weapons in Sri Lanka...


Salaams KuKulzA28 Yes it is an interesting path and I am very grateful you opened the door to it. I had been studying Kastane for quite some time previously and your opener seemed to me a reasonable opportunity to examine this weapon though as you quite rightly note there are other weapons worth looking at ... though again as you say we went off down the Kastane path twisting and turning.

In fact I noted in looking at Martial Arts weapons cutlass forms incorporating the Kastane style blade being used though it seems they came about post Portuguese. There are scores of weapons in the Ancient Martial Art format in Sri Lanka..Angampora.

I'm certain other weapons can be added like the Piha Keatta clearly of similar design structure and other swords and weapons ~ spears n' guns. Feel free since this is your thread ...Lets do it !

Thank you for your post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This discussion continues to become more fascinating, for me personally because it has returned me to research from over 15 years ago on the kasthane which I realize now was dramatically incomplete. I do recall the material on the Keicho mission and Hasekura, and I cannot thank Gustav enough for posting this keenly important data and those remarkably telling images.

Also important are the details about the connections to Ming China in the 15th century. Clearly Sri Lanka was a profoundly important trade center far back in history and the study of this history is extremely complex as well as essential in truly understanding the networks and influences involved here.

The only data I have on the Hasekura reference is a news article of 1998 by Dr. de Silva of the National Museum. In this he notes some of the material mentioned in the articles posted by Gustav, and that there were a number of kasthane with carved ivory hilts (examples in the V&A in London and another in Belgium) which date from about 1415-67 . He describes the head as sinha (=lion), and this would set the terminus post quem for these hilts at least to c.1415 with sinha or lions heads.

With regard to the blade on the Hasekura kasthane I think Ibrahiim has made a remarkable suggestion, that this is either an Italian storta blade or one heavily influenced by them. As has been noted, this blade shape which is relatively broad and with a peak and yelman toward the tip is very much like Chinese dao blades, however these are typically later.

What seems plausible is the blade profile seen on this example, which is set in the period of the Hasekura mission (returned to Japan 1620) is of Venetian storta shape . The markings, the crowned N in particular , appear to be in an Italian 'style' and at the forte, the blocked ricasso form seems quite evident on Italian swords.
With this I checked "Armi Bianchi Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, Milan, 1975) and as I opened to #386, I was stunned as I viewed that example of storta with virtually the same blade, and examples #387 and #388 all the same and all had either human or zoomorphic lion heads. These are shown as rm Venice c.1550-54. The hilts are simple 'S' guard (opposed up and down quillons) but essentially the same system as the kastane without the central downturned quillons at the blade.

As Anthony North well explained in his 1975 article ("A Late 15th Century Italian Sword", Connoisseuer Dec 1975 p.239) these Italian swords are remarkably linked to the nimchas of North Africa and as far east as Ceylon as he cites Charles Buttin ("Les Poignards et les Sabres Marocains", Hesperis, Tome XXVI, 1939) who drew the same theories.

Clearly Sri Lanka was well known from far earlier times and referred to as Taprobane by the Greeks, later Serandib by the Arabs and by 1505 Ceilao by the Portuguese. The range of trade with Venice is well known as well, as well as their contacts with China, Arabs, India, North Africa etc. and as we have seen, the Ming dynasty was linked with Ceylon as early as the 15th century.

I am tempted to consider the remarkable similarities of the dragon like 'fu dogs' or lions in China, though admittedly a free association thought which comes to mind as we factor in China here. We also have the possibility of provenance examples of lion head pommel kasthane as early as 15th c. (as mentioned by deSilva in his 1998 article).

We now see a blade of clearly storta form deriving from Venice, whether fitered through from China or direct contact and from mid 16th century.
We cannot help but wonder if perhaps these European zoomorphic hilts might have derived from oriental influences rather than vice versa.

I think here the key point of our discussion is the general hilt form of the sword we know as the kasthane and its development. It is clear that the stylized monster or zoomorphic pommel head has experienced dramatic license in the profoundly wide range of these hilts, and as J.F Pieris ("A Royal Dagger from Ceylon", Connoisseur, 1938. p.24) has observed the mystical creatures portrayed on the elements of these hilts, in this case referring primarily to the serepediya, the decorative qualities have been freely exploited by the artisans.

Therefore I would recommend once again that we continue the discussion with focus more on the development on the sword form itself, and that the nature or identification of the creatures represented be confined to each variant example itself. We should avoid broad assertions on the nature of these decorative elements concerning the kasthane overall, especially considering the volatility of the geopolitical status of Sri Lanka through so many centuries of history, as well as the well clouded circumstances of colonial intervention .



Addendum:
In further looking through Boccia & Coelho, the basic structure of these hilts in Italy becomes apparent in examples of storta and early schiavona (c. 1480-1500) with upward and downward quillons on crossguard and branched upswept knuckleguard. The inner 'crab claw' type appendages which become entirely vestigial on the kastane hilts in general seem to reflect these from a number of Italian and even Nasrid hist types.
Most of the Italian examples I viewed were those of mid to end of 16th c. but the shiavona type carries back to c.1480, so the quillon system seems quite old, but essentially Italian.
Re: the markings, the use of capital M with cross and orb over it occurred and the flueret design used with it similar to many quillon terminals seen.
DeSilva noted that Thom Richardson stated he thought the letter on the Hasekura blade indicated ownership rather than a makers mark.


Salaams Jim, Your post is as always brilliantly laid out and full of the most interesting and well researched notes... I wish my library was half as good.

I am pleased my Storta revelation was as interesting to you as it was to me as I almost fell off my chair !! You may recall it appears on the North African thread...with as it happens in the same picture as the blade ~a Lions Head.
How interesting ~it could be that lions head and other similar pommels may have been produced in Sri Lanka before the arrival of the Portuguese... and of course the staggering likeness of the Storta blades of Venice...both in the straighter broad form and the short curved variants... and the quillon and guard arrangements. The possibilities are mind boggling !

Last point next...The blade mark M according to your classic thread could be from Juan Martinez Menchaca..if in fact it is an M ... If its an N I have no idea!

I wondered if the Japanese writing under the picture was descriptive of the makers/owners mark?

In comparing early hilts I had hoped we could look at the artwork of the Popham and the actual hilt in the Japanese variant since these are two of the oldest available items and draw some comparisons.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

I think my last post was a bit too long, and it is difficult to wade through that much data.
Regarding the storta blade matter. This is based on the images posted by Gustav in post #187 from the article on the Hasekura blade c.1620.
This reveals that this particular example has a blade of storta form with peak near the tip much as also seen on other similar examples such as from China . We cannot conclude that the blade form became universal, but it does suggest contact with trade from either Venice or China in that blade.

The markings are from the same post, #187 and it is distinctly an 'N' and similar to such markings on some Italian blades . As DeSilva noted in 1998, Thom Richardson suggests this would have likely been an owners mark.

The Japanese writing probably does refer to the nature of these marks.

I agree that close up views of the Popham hilt in comparison to this hilt would be beneficial to the discussion.

[Gustav]

Popham's kastane

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All,

Thank you Gustav for excellent picture of the artwork of the Popham Armour.

In comparing the Popham and Japanese variants I suggest that the two forms whilst emanating from a similar thought process by two very different artists even operating out of different Royal Workshops... is conveyed to the finished article with a great degree of artistic licence... The one being big cat Lion influence and the other perhaps a mythical beast form, perhaps the Serapendiya or the Makara but certainly evidenced by other mythical lesser Deities on the rest of the Hilt... smaller Makara or Naga types. The tail of the artwork at Popham spilling over lavishly onto the rainguard and scabbard region in foliate, fish-tail or peacock form. The entire form taking on occasional anthropomorphic attribute when joined with the half crocodile/ half human face to the hand guard and occasionally even seen with the face of another monster at/between the crossguard..The Kirtimukha.

Again regarding the main hilt subjects I cite artistic licence as we are after all looking at a painting on one hand and an artesans interpretation on the other... On the Popham, therefor, the description of mythical serpent form seems to fit better than a Lion style of interpretation.. though some may indicate an apparent mane which others view as scales or simply part of the myriad of devices contained on this multiple animal myth.

On the Japanese Museum item the hilt is more clearly viewed as a big cat... The Lion form quite obvious. Lesser deities appear as finials on the cross guard and hand guard and on the perhaps Pseudo Quillons which appear uncannily like Vajra finials; hardly surprising, however, since the Hindu Buddhist influence is huge on this hilt. The blade is incredible. Not only in its straight broad shape but in its apparent likeness to the Venice Storta style.

As yet no one has translated the Japanese detail defining what the stamp is... and it could be a makers or a stamp of ownership. The squiggle form is not known but may be a wolf mark done locally but not yet identified ?...nor translated..Significantly there is some sort of carving at the blade viewed as perhaps another monster or "gargoyle" and similar to the usual batch of varied possibilities. Artistically drawn it could be any of them.

The two forms perhaps indicate that each Kastane weapon be viewed quite on its own merit since there are clear differences in interpretation of the two early forms thus this is bound to be complicated... even compounded in the later centuries.

It is even doubtful that the precise creature can be identified (the main subject on the hilt), though, I think upon the minor deities we are a lot clearer. Lost also in the fog of time is the amazing discovery of potential Venetian Storta influence and perhaps it can only be considered as that... influence .. yet that is important.

In part the closeness of the dates of the transition to Japan and the involvement in the Indian Ocean of the Portuguese in Sri Lanka lends me to posit that the Royal Workshops could have worked in unison with Portuguese weapon makers in the earlier years.

The anecdotal evidence may support Royal Workshop involvement in the peculiar rank identity of officials wearing a certain quality of Kastane and though noted as 1807 may have been done earlier. Naturally having had three invader countries ravaging the country it is not surprising to be confronted with such a fog. Undoing the facts from fiction was never going to be easy. I am sure however that we have added much to the subject and apologies to those who have viewed the proceedings as somewhat stormy.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[ariel]

......the focus has singlely become the Kastane hilt that lead to over a year of walking down the garden path. The initial thread/question posted was about the swords of Sri lanka, perhaps we can diverse a little and consider other types too. Some very fine images have already been provided but the focus of the topic has been lost to the Kastane alone.

Gavin


Thanks, Gavin!

I am interested in belt swords, the Urumi of South India.
The classic Tamil/Karnataka version is of normal length, or perhaps slightly oversized, but looks like a normal Tulwar. They were presented in the Elgood's book as well as in the Tulwar's book describing Mysore palace.

Having gone to Wiki ( pardon me :-(((), I learned that there allegedly was a Singhalese version of it, called Ethunu Kaduwa, that was apparently multibladed and extraordinarily long ( picture of uncertain veracity attached).

Does anyone have any reliable information re. those swords?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks, Gavin!

I am interested in belt swords, the Urumi of South India.
The classic Tamil/Karnataka version is of normal length, or perhaps slightly oversized, but looks like a normal Tulwar. They were presented in the Elgood's book as well as in the Tulwar's book describing Mysore palace.

Having gone to Wiki ( pardon me :-(((), I learned that there allegedly was a Singhalese version of it, called Ethunu Kaduwa, that was apparently multibladed and extraordinarily long ( picture of uncertain veracity attached).

Does anyone have any reliable information re. those swords?

Salaams Ariel, Thank you for adding this amazing weapon. According to http://www.historyrundown.com/tag/martial-arts/

Quote"1.Urumi
The Urumi is probably one of the most dangerous melee weapons in the entire history of weapons, not only for enemies, but also for the wielder himself. It originated in southern states of India, being known as far back as the Mauryan Empire.

Pair of multi-bladed urumi(ethunu kaduwa)
It is a very flexible longsword, usually made from steel or brass, 48–66 inches(122-168 cm) long, often treated as a metal whip. Urumi is often composed of multiple blades, attached to a single handle, in some variants used mainly in Sri Lanka the number of blades could be more than 30.

In the combat, warriors usually handle the urumi as a whip, swinging and spinning it around. This makes it especially efficient against multitude of enemies. While not being used, it is often worn as a belt, coiled around warrior’s waist.

In the medieval India, only the most well-trained Rajput warriors were allowed to practice with this whip-like sword, requiring perfect coordination, concentration and agility. Although not capable of slicing through armor, wounds inflicted from the swinging urumi could be often fatal." Unquote.

Note; From the same source; Mauryan Empire. An historical power in ancient India, ruled by the Mauryan dynasty from about 322 to 185 BCE.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Ariel, The Ethuna kadu (Rolled up Sword) is not a mainstream weapon and is only still practiced by very few Angam martial artists in Sri Lanka. old examples of weapons seem virtually non-existent though some Angam schools still train with them. The person in the picture is Angam master Ajantha Mahantharachchi a friend of mine and among the few who are quite skilled at the use of the weapon in Sri Lanka. the movements seem more rotational than shown in the posted video clip and is effective in clearing a path 5-6 m. wide.

Vandoo- The link to Lions in Sinhala (Sinha=Lion - Sinhala literally means Lion people) goes back at least to two and a half millennia where the story links the ancestry of the Sinhala race to a Lion. it is not a recent acquisition. If you may note the Sri Lankan National flag is of a Lion carrying a Sword in hand. (not a Kasthana though :) )

Gustav, Thanks for the Images of the Hasekura Kasthane, It anyway seem quite a mixed up piece as even the guards and the ivory hilt seem to have different origins. to my knowledge the hilt seem to be of a later date stylistically and of a rather more crude craftsmanship. The blade obviously does not comply with Sinhala traditional design of Kasthana.

[ariel]

Many thanks for the informative comment.

Are there any historic references to Ethuna Kadu in Sri Lankan sources?
When was its name and use mentioned first?




The problem is that when exotic, poorly known and " outlandish" Indian weapons are mentioned, many people respond that they are just modern Kalaripayattu inventions, designed to fool naive Westerners.


I hope your friend, in addition to being a master of this fascinating weapon, has factual knowledge about its history.
Many thanks in advance.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ariel, The Ethuna kadu (Rolled up Sword) is not a mainstream weapon and is only still practiced by very few Angam martial artists in Sri Lanka. old examples of weapons seem virtually non-existent though some Angam schools still train with them. The person in the picture is Angam master Ajantha Mahantharachchi a friend of mine and among the few who are quite skilled at the use of the weapon in Sri Lanka. the movements seem more rotational than shown in the posted video clip and is effective in clearing a path 5-6 m. wide.

Vandoo- The link to Lions in Sinhala (Sinha=Lion - Sinhala literally means Lion people) goes back at least to two and a half millennia where the story links the ancestry of the Sinhala race to a Lion. it is not a recent acquisition. If you may note the Sri Lankan National flag is of a Lion carrying a Sword in hand. (not a Kasthana though :) )

Gustav, Thanks for the Images of the Hasekura Kasthane, It anyway seem quite a mixed up piece as even the guards and the ivory hilt seem to have different origins. to my knowledge the hilt seem to be of a later date stylistically and of a rather more crude craftsmanship. The blade obviously does not comply with Sinhala traditional design of Kasthana.


Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody ~ Your comments are both astute and very welcomed. The apparent presentation Kastane to the Japanese delegation may therefor be a reworked sword altogether and could even be a Storta with the addition of a Kastane hand and crossguard. See my post at #189 where there is a similar blade and hilt on two different exhibits in the same picture both which seem to be Storta. I note however that there is an interesting creature cut into the blade close to the point which may be mythical and Sri Lankan. The item may therefor be a hybrid; Something of mixed origin or composition.

Comparison of the Popham artwork and a non original Kastane would therefor seem premature, however, can you please access the earliest museum Kastane in Sri Lanka so that a more accurate assessment can be made?

I note your inclusion of your National Flag; From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Sri_Lanka Quote"It was adopted in 1950 following the recommendations of a committee appointed by the 1st Prime Minister of Ceylon, The Rt Hon D.S. Senanayake."Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Ibrahiim, Yes this flag is modern- but as you know it was copied and modified off the Banner of the Last Sinhala King. Also including an image of a Lion Flag inscribed among the murals of the Dambulla temple depicting the battles of King Dutugemunu and as his royal banner. The temple has a ancestry dating back to the 1st Century BC. - and underwent major renovation and re-painting in the 18th Century - which establishes the 'Lion with sword' as the Sinhala Royal Banner in the least to that period.

Any way my point in adding the flag was only to illustrate that the Lion motif is a primary national symbol of the Sinhalese. Its use on the Sword hilt etc. are as National symbols of the Sinhala race- not as purely religious or auspicious symbols.

Ariel, I shall try to get more information from Ajantha and get back to you on the “Ethuna Kadu” information.

[ariel]

Many thanks!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim, Yes this flag is modern- but as you know it was copied and modified off the Banner of the Last Sinhala King. Also including an image of a Lion Flag inscribed among the murals of the Dambulla temple depicting the battles of King Dutugemunu and as his royal banner. The temple has a ancestry dating back to the 1st Century BC. - and underwent major renovation and re-painting in the 18th Century - which establishes the 'Lion with sword' as the Sinhala Royal Banner in the least to that period.

Any way my point in adding the flag was only to illustrate that the Lion motif is a primary national symbol of the Sinhalese. Its use on the Sword hilt etc. are as National symbols of the Sinhala race- not as purely religious or auspicious symbols.

Ariel, I shall try to get more information from Ajantha and get back to you on the “Ethuna Kadu” information.

Salaams Prasanna Weerakkody Yes interesting ..I enjoyed reading about the flags meaning on the reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Sri_Lanka and noted that it used to contain 4 spearheads instead of the leaves..and that the sword is not the Kastane as reported on many references.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Japanese Museum Kastane.

Salaams All, Note to library. It would seem that the blade (and perhaps the hilt) on the Japanese museum Kastane may be of somewhat questionable provenance.

Is the blade in fact European possibly Spanish?
On the other hand could it be Chinese?

To view the possibilities of the latter I have placed below a couple of Forum references and finally to add spice to the discussion a potential Spanish weapon as yet not discussed on this thread from which the blade may have derived: The Terciado.

Illustrated below ~
The Terciado...shown singly vertically.
Storta shown singly with S guard.
Makara monster.
Japanese Museum blade.
Chinese Halibard with pattern to blade.
Group of 5 Storta.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes: In addition please see Forum references for possible influence on the Japanese Kastane blade presented in 1620 in the Philipines:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17401&highlight=chinese+blades Chinese halibard. With possible Makara to the blade similar to the Museum item?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17065&highlight=chinese+blades blade of similar form?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8080&highlight=chinese+blades perhaps reworked from a blade style shown?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11774&highlight=chinese+blades as above reworked blade?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8404&page=3&pp=30&highlight=chinese+blades Terciado Sword. Spanish.

[fernando]

… Being from Sri Lanka does not give you ownership of the Kastane...moreover it gives you the opportunity to debate this very little known sword on the hot anvil of this Forum and not Sir, to attempt to slur the efforts of others.

… It is extremely bad form to suggest that I may have not the respect because I am not Sri Lankan and to suggest that by speaking to me in the 3rd person that everyone else is able to identify the lion except me is entirely without merit and very insulting

… Fortunately academic debates are not necessarily won based upon who writes the most about the subject during the debate just as in person arguments are not won by the person who argues the loudest.

… and marked by the high readership of now more than 13,000 hits...so somebody is reading the thread, no?

… If you do not wish to take part then it is entirely up to you...This is a Forum... you know what happens on Forums... ?

… It is at this point that I opt out of this discussion and perhaps I will come back n another 12 months.

… You continue to describe the ranks of forum members fleeing this thread (when in fact there is one only who has decided to call it a day for now. )

...

Hello Ibrahiim :)
I must say i am deeply impressed with your ability to make a (this) thread survive like a real siege around the same specific topic. I realize the common of mortals would have long given up this endless (not to say arid) discussion … which you bravely decided to maintain at all costs :confused: .
I am amazed that you claim that 13000 views are an evidence that this thread is a hit; you are smarter than that. Almost half of the posts are yours; this will potentially keep the thread alive. Perhaps you should consider that people visit the thread to check on something actually new ?; with all due respect, remember the thread wasn’t started by you and the theme is Sri Lankan swords in general … not only kastanes ;) .
Also when you infer that no one has yet given up its follow up, you might be navigating on false waters; are you sure some of us haven't already abandoned the ship ?
You are also certainly aware that, when you consider addressing you by your last name is an insult, you are pulling the rope a bit too tight; that Prasanna Weerakkody was calling for your attention with a certain emphasis i believe so but, no more than that may be concluded. After all, what is wrong in calling you by your last name ? you have also addressed Prasanna as Weerakkody … and Gavin as SwordsAntiqueWeapons; not noticing that he signs his posts with his real name.
And speaking of addressing style, may i dare pointing out that you are the only one here who starts all posts with the same salutation expression; never minding that surely the majority of our fellow members do not practice such language; one could hardly call such attitude the best of diplomacy :shrug: .
It is also noteworthy that, often mentioning the forum as a back up to our (unilateral) approaches doesn't make it obvious that such symbiosis pertains only to one of us.
I confess i am not surprised when you are told that, by now, with this kaskara topic, you are beating a dead gargoyle … or, in my native expression, raining on the wet ... if you allow me the joke :o .
I have a feeling that, if one makes a survey, asking out there if it needs such many hundreds of posts to confirm whether the figure on the kastane pommel is a lion or a makara, people would find it somehow implausible; even a draw would take an infinitely shorter discussion … unless one insists in bringing back the same (or questionably new) material again and again :shrug: .
I know after all this time that you are a sportsman who doesn’t interiorize this type of observations and will consider my catharsis as a non valid episode; reason why i don’t hesitate to release it ... in any case with all due appologies for whatever might have affected you :o .

[ariel]

Dear Prasanna Weerakkody:

Sorry to bug you, but have you had a chance to ask your friend about Ethuna Kadu?

As I told already, I am tremendously interested to know whether this is an historically- known weapon or just a modern Kalari implement.

Many thanks,
Ariel

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Ariel,

Sorry about delay in checking up on your info. I checked with Ajantha and he says he was trained in the weapon by his grandfather. Beyond that it is somewhat difficult to trace “solid” evidence to the ancestry of the weapon at the moment. In a 14-15th Century text that includes arms carried to a battle include a reference to “Lelena Kadu” (= flexible sword) which may refer to a similar weapon.

I will keep checking and would let you know if something else comes up.

Even otherwise the Kalaripayath and Angam arts are generally considered sister arts that had close ties and aided in development of each other going back to the 16th Century. there are many records of warriors from each school training in the other and participating in gladiatorial contests.

On a general note there are significant cultural affinities between Kerala and Sri Lankan cultural elements in many other areas including dancing, food, language and even Surnames of people. this is attributed to the fact that the fisher-folk and traders used to travel with the monsoon currents which changed every 6 months and would spend part of the year resident in Kerala and in Southern Sri Lanka before returning every year.

Regards
Prasanna

[KuKulzA28]

Prasanna I too have noticed close similarities between Kalaripayattu and Angampora (from what I've seen online), glad to have what I suspected to be cultural and historical ties confirmed!

You guys think it's possible to create, even a rough timeline of Sri Lankan sword forms? My guess is it'd end with the kastane and the D-guard cutlass as most recent, right? But I have no idea how that time line would begin... did they resemble old South Indian swords?? Hope some of ya'll can help shed some light
:)

[ariel]

Dear Prasanna,
Lot of thanks!
Ariel

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello Ibrahiim :)
I must say i am deeply impressed with your ability to make a (this) thread survive like a real siege around the same specific topic. I realize the common of mortals would have long given up this endless (not to say arid) discussion … which you bravely decided to maintain at all costs :confused: .
I am amazed that you claim that 13000 views are an evidence that this thread is a hit; you are smarter than that. Almost half of the posts are yours; this will potentially keep the thread alive. Perhaps you should consider that people visit the thread to check on something actually new ?; with all due respect, remember the thread wasn’t started by you and the theme is Sri Lankan swords in general … not only kastanes ;) .
Also when you infer that no one has yet given up its follow up, you might be navigating on false waters; are you sure some of us haven't already abandoned the ship ?
You are also certainly aware that, when you consider addressing you by your last name is an insult, you are pulling the rope a bit too tight; that Prasanna Weerakkody was calling for your attention with a certain emphasis i believe so but, no more than that may be concluded. After all, what is wrong in calling you by your last name ? you have also addressed Prasanna as Weerakkody … and Gavin as SwordsAntiqueWeapons; not noticing that he signs his posts with his real name.
And speaking of addressing style, may i dare pointing out that you are the only one here who starts all posts with the same salutation expression; never minding that surely the majority of our fellow members do not practice such language; one could hardly call such attitude the best of diplomacy :shrug: .
It is also noteworthy that, often mentioning the forum as a back up to our (unilateral) approaches doesn't make it obvious that such symbiosis pertains only to one of us.
I confess i am not surprised when you are told that, by now, with this kaskara topic, you are beating a dead gargoyle … or, in my native expression, raining on the wet ... if you allow me the joke :o .
I have a feeling that, if one makes a survey, asking out there if it needs such many hundreds of posts to confirm whether the figure on the kastane pommel is a lion or a makara, people would find it somehow implausible; even a draw would take an infinitely shorter discussion … unless one insists in bringing back the same (or questionably new) material again and again :shrug: .
I know after all this time that you are a sportsman who doesn’t interiorize this type of observations and will consider my catharsis as a non valid episode; reason why i don’t hesitate to release it ... in any case with all due apologies for whatever might have affected you :o .

Salaams Fernando, ~ How kind it is of you to write. I cannot however add anything of note to your topic since it contains not a drop of detail relevant to this discussion...or as you put it... non valid. Your joke about the gargoyle is so funny Fernando do you do comedy on television?

Joking apart however, I note your pathetic, apologetic final statement but trust that you may add finer detail in the quest to bolster this excellent thread...which is not only about the Kastane but other Sri Lankan weapons as well ...Everyone knows the Kastane formed a very large part of the discussion and that is not an unusual avenue for threads to take..and it took how long before someone jumped on that particular bandwagon?... suddenly after hundreds of posts to be referred back to its original #1 starter...

It is of sheer blinding amazement that you of all people would want to derail proceedings since after all the Kastane is more than likely of Portuguese collaborative origin and that surely the detail contained now far exceeded what went before...and that your letter forms such a personal attack upon my style of writing, etiquette and accepted formal expressions...

Sir, if you vehemently have something to say, off topic, then by all means send me a PM.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Andrew]

Salaams Fernando, ~ How kind it is of you to write. I cannot however add anything of note to your topic since it contains not a drop of detail relevant to this discussion...or as you put it... non valid. Your joke about the gargoyle is so funny Fernando do you do comedy on television?

Joking apart however, I note your pathetic, apologetic final statement but trust that you may add finer detail in the quest to bolster this excellent thread...which is not only about the Kastane but other Sri Lankan weapons as well ...Everyone knows the Kastane formed a very large part of the discussion and that is not an unusual avenue for threads to take..and it took how long before someone jumped on that particular bandwagon?... suddenly after hundreds of posts to be referred back to its original #1 starter...

It is of sheer blinding amazement that you of all people would want to derail proceedings since after all the Kastane is more than likely of Portuguese collaborative origin and that surely the detail contained now far exceeded what went before...and that your letter forms such a personal attack upon my style of writing, etiquette and accepted formal expressions...

Sir, if you vehemently have something to say, off topic, then by all means send me a PM.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)


Please take it down a notch, Ibrahiim. Try reading for content and intent rather than inferring insult where none may be intended. Like you, many forum members are not native English speakers.

Also, perhaps you could step back and take an objective look at your posting habits and style. You do not "break" any specific rules, but if your intention is to disregard or dismiss other member's comments and criticism (whether valid or otherwise), you ought not expect a different response.

[fernando]

Salaam Aleikum Ibrahiim,
I was sure you would take my lines with a rather open mind :cool: .
It is my pleasure that you made yourself a joke about me being a TV comedian; that pends to my favour in compensating my being rude in addressing you with previous my letter.
The gargoyle joke, you should have noticed, wasn't mine; i was just quoting it ... but i can't hide i found it funny, though :o .
What i had to be said about the Kastane is already said; i have nothing further to add.
And by the way, i am on the side of those who realize the pommel of the Kastane represents a lion but, i am absolutely ready to give it to you that it is a makara :shrug: .
I don't think we need to exchange PMs as suggested; what i have said, well put or unfortunate, i consider it on topic, not off.
As also after having expressed my views on the eternization of the pommel thing, i have ran out of subjects.
I beg of you not to consider this as a personal matter, but more of an academical emphasis of a certain context, if i may arrogate myself such presumption; i don't have such familiarity with you to engage in personal reproaches.
A paz esteja contigo :) .

PS
Present post prepared before Andrew's input; only later released :shrug: .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please take it down a notch, Ibrahiim. Try reading for content and intent rather than inferring insult where none may be intended. Like you, many forum members are not native English speakers.

Also, perhaps you could step back and take an objective look at your posting habits and style. You do not "break" any specific rules, but if your intention is to disregard or dismiss other member's comments and criticism (whether valid or otherwise), you ought not expect a different response.


Salaams Andrew ~ You know as well as I do that there is a duel of pens going on here... but that so far as I am concerned I have but one reason to add detail on Forum... That reason being forum learning and understanding of the facts. If some members are driven to sleep by my posts let them not open them...but present the truth and the facts I will always try to do... and unlike others at least to try to promote a modicum of research. I have not dismissed or disregarded any comments...In fact all comments are respected except in the case of blatant and unnecessary remarks... Would you be so insulted?

I have looked at my posts and in standing back as you suggest I see a few areas I can improve on...I could do with a decent library !! I start my posts in the same way because that is how I was taught to be respectful to all readers.
Often the two dimensional attributes of the written form don't fully express the intent being expressed by the author .. that must be taken into account by the reader.. Where a researcher has clearly spent ages ploughing up details and information it is bound to be irritating if "a one liner special" or farcical reply is presented in all seriousness as a response! Perhaps I should add to posts only serious players need comment!

Meanwhile and with great respect I withdraw from the thread on Sri Lankan Weapons in all respects but hope that it continues unabated. Should you prefer, I agree to have removed all of my posts from this thread. That way we shall see who is serious about research in this field.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[AhmedH]

Salaams Andrew ~ You know as well as I do that there is a duel of pens going on here... but that so far as I am concerned I have but one reason to add detail on Forum... That reason being forum learning and understanding of the facts. If some members are driven to sleep by my posts let them not open them...but present the truth and the facts I will always try to do... and unlike others at least to try to promote a modicum of research. I have not dismissed or disregarded any comments...In fact all comments are respected except in the case of blatant and unnecessary remarks... Would you be so insulted?

I have looked at my posts and in standing back as you suggest I see a few areas I can improve on...I could do with a decent library !! I start my posts in the same way because that is how I was taught to be respectful to all readers.
Often the two dimensional attributes of the written form don't fully express the intent being expressed by the author .. that must be taken into account by the reader.. Where a researcher has clearly spent ages ploughing up details and information it is bound to be irritating if "a one liner special" or farcical reply is presented in all seriousness as a response! Perhaps I should add to posts only serious players need comment!

Meanwhile and with great respect I withdraw from the thread on Sri Lankan Weapons in all respects but hope that it continues unabated. Should you prefer, I agree to have removed all of my posts from this thread. That way we shall see who is serious about research in this field.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim!

I understand your frustration, but for the sake of knowledge and research, I must admit that your posts in this thread are very important and essential indeed. Therefore, I request that you'd withdraw your offer for the moderator to stop or delete your precious postings in this thread. Frankly, I find them EXTREMELY useful and knowledgeable. Also DO NOT forget that Andrew has admitted that you didn't break any rules in your posts, so please do not be over-sensitive. Again, I understand your upset, and in fact, I sympathize with you greatly, but it would be very disappointing if you withdrew from this thread now.

Please think about what I've told you, buddy!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Best regards,
Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Andrew]

Salaams Andrew ~ You know as well as I do that there is a duel of pens going on here... but that so far as I am concerned I have but one reason to add detail on Forum... That reason being forum learning and understanding of the facts. If some members are driven to sleep by my posts let them not open them...but present the truth and the facts I will always try to do... and unlike others at least to try to promote a modicum of research. I have not dismissed or disregarded any comments...In fact all comments are respected except in the case of blatant and unnecessary remarks... Would you be so insulted?

I have looked at my posts and in standing back as you suggest I see a few areas I can improve on...I could do with a decent library !! I start my posts in the same way because that is how I was taught to be respectful to all readers.
Often the two dimensional attributes of the written form don't fully express the intent being expressed by the author .. that must be taken into account by the reader.. Where a researcher has clearly spent ages ploughing up details and information it is bound to be irritating if "a one liner special" or farcical reply is presented in all seriousness as a response! Perhaps I should add to posts only serious players need comment!

Meanwhile and with great respect I withdraw from the thread on Sri Lankan Weapons in all respects but hope that it continues unabated. Should you prefer, I agree to have removed all of my posts from this thread. That way we shall see who is serious about research in this field.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim:

My role here is to keep order, not pick "sides." It is not my intent to stifle productive discussion--quite the opposite.

I believe you are well-intended with your postings.

However, I am uncertain if you appreciate that your posting style irritates (and, perhaps, alienates) some of your fellow forum members? Does that bother you at all or, perhaps, encourage you to consider making some changes? If so, you may well cut down on some of the responses that irritate you if you made an effort to understand and change what irritates others.

If not...you reap what you sow. :shrug:

A

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim:

My role here is to keep order, not pick "sides." It is not my intent to stifle productive discussion--quite the opposite.

I believe you are well-intended with your postings.

However, I am uncertain if you appreciate that your posting style irritates (and, perhaps, alienates) some of your fellow forum members? Does that bother you at all or, perhaps, encourage you to consider making some changes? If so, you may well cut down on some of the responses that irritate you if you made an effort to understand and change what irritates others.

If not...you reap what you sow. :shrug:

A


Salaams Andrew, Your role is highly respected. As you note ..my intentions are solid behind promoting the Forums knowledge. Your advice is sought on which way to manoeuvre this thread?

We have at our bidding a great opportunity to examine the Japanese variant as placed in my last post on the subject ...Personally I think the Storta appears as the winner in terms of influence. It does, however, somewhat rule out the comparison with the Popham item. I suspect that the blade stamps were, in fact, placed by the Japanese "owner-apparent" Hasekura Tsunenaga, and I have examples of his marks for comparison. Perhaps the Japanese so called Kastane is a huge red herring? It may well be that the thread will run dry, however, we will have placed a great deal of information so that in future another researcher can take on the challenge.

This thread remains as ever an open conduit for all manner of Sri Lankan weaponry though it has to be said that it evolved and developed around the Kastane and that is the main thrust of the work and only recently was attention diverted to other items..these are welcome provided their inclusion is not a device to derail ... and we have dealt with the flail device in addition.

Insofar as my own writing format ~ I hope people can handle the idiosyncrasies of that because if they don't like the beginning nor the end... and don't like the middle, they always have the option of not reading it...though of course if I can develop a less aggressive style maybe they would.

Thank you for your post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David]

This thread remains as ever an open conduit for all manner of Sri Lankan weaponry though it has to be said that it evolved and developed around the Kastane and that is the main thrust of the work and only recently was attention diverted to other items..these are welcome provided their inclusion is not a device to derail … and we have dealt with the flail device in addition.
Hopefully Ibrahiim, you can see that this thread "evolved and developed around the Kastane" almost solely under YOUR will and directions after Jim raised some questions about the weapon. It was certainly fair game for discussion at that point as the OPs original questions was about ALL Sri Lankan weapons. It is now the "main thrust of the work" mostly due to your own efforts to make it so. Some might see this as your own "device to derail" this thread. But threads grow as they may, organically and it is not really your place to decide what is or is not welcome regarding what Sri Lankan weapons other members may choose to discuss here simply because YOU want this thread to be mostly about the kastane.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hopefully Ibrahiim, you can see that this thread "evolved and developed around the Kastane" almost solely under YOUR will and directions after Jim raised some questions about the weapon. It was certainly fair game for discussion at that point as the OPs original questions was about ALL Sri Lankan weapons. It is now the "main thrust of the work" mostly due to your own efforts to make it so. Some might see this as your own "device to derail" this thread. But threads grow as they may, organically and it is not really your place to decide what is or is not welcome regarding what Sri Lankan weapons other members may choose to discuss here simply because YOU want this thread to be mostly about the kastane.


Salaams David, Perhaps I may ask you which direction you would like the thread to move in? The work presented at #214 could be one option? ..and that coupled with the ever present possibility that other weapons could be injected into the equation.

In that way we can accommodate your wishes and move the thread forward.

Threads as you note are organic and they go which way the wind is blowing..at this time some emphasis appears to be in the Kastane because it is the most interesting of Sri Lankan weapons and poses such a lot of questions because of its amazing history through three invading countries Portugal, Holland and Great Britain and tied to its own fabulous history and Buddhist/Hindu roots stretching back 4,000 years...Naturally other weapons may be presented and as they are.. then they can be examined.. as has been the flail sword device only a few posts back instigated by Ariel.

The martial arts weapon system in Sri Lanka, for example, contains dozens of blades but I reason that there is still much to do on the Kastane though I am ready as always to examine any weapon ...as always.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

Well said Ibrahiim, an excellent description of threads on this and many forums, that they may move in many directions, and that aspect is probably one of the most intriguing aspects of studying ethnographic arms. It is often surprising how many things might be factored in with the study of one weapon.
As David has pointed out, it was my question regarding kastanes that led to the ensuing discourse focused on the kastane as opposed to a broad discussion on Sri Lankan weapons. Aside from the piha kaetta, which has its own esoterica, these other weapons are not nearly as well known or familiar as the kastane, which is often considered in much of the literature as the 'national weapon of Ceylon'.

It is with this rather premiere status that the kastane tends to become one of the most distinct and recognizable arms of Sri Lanka, and that in addition to previous discussions in recent times that brought that particular weapon to the forefront here. I was glad to see Ariel bring in the other rather obscure weapon, which illustrates the point on how little is really known on most of the other weapons here. Virtually the only known focused article on the arms of Sri Lanka is by Derinayagala (I believe 1942).

I think it has been well determined that any other weapons from Sri Lanka that have anyones interest are welcome on this thread, as seen with Ariels well placed query, despite the fact that the title refers to 'swords'

I remain intrigued by the development of the kastane, though admittedly undecided as far as any particular standard for the representations in the motif, which is of course one of the elements of discussion. I believe there is good reason to further examine the Hasekura sword, with regard to trying to determine more on the earliest examples of the zoomorphic head hilt (much in the manner we look into katars, tulwars, and many others) .

Perhaps someone might enter in a piha kaetta or possibly some of the polearms here and that might broaden the discussion. Possibly there might be iconographic associations between motif on these and the kastane? Possibly motif on polearms might reflect influences?

I just noticed and had forgotten, the title of this thread is Sinhala/Sri Lankan Swords.....I had entirely forgotten that! :)
When I think of a Sri Lankan sword, it seems almost quintessant to think of the kastane. Certainly there were others far earlier as seen in the magnificent artwork by Prasanna, but are these well known enough for an in depth discussion? are there enough examples in collections to support an illustrative discussion?

It would seem the focus on kastane here developed because it is virtually the only Sri Lankan sword that has wide recognition and a well established scope of examples and development? While KuKulz queried further amidst the discussion asking about earlier types of Sri Lankan swords, the focus on kastane was simply resultant as no other entries pertaining to the other earlier forms was forthcoming. The question never addressed Sri Lankan arms in general.

I believe that Elgood noted that the 'gauntlet sword' or pata had some presence in Sri Lanka (this is also noted in Deraniyagala) . Does anyone have an example or reference to illustrate one of these?

Meanwhile I am trying to think of what other sword forms beyond those in the more ancient and historic period were used in Ceylon.

[VANDOO]

AS JIM STATED THE PHIA AND THE KASTANE ARE THE TWO MOST WELL KNOWN WEAPONS FROM SIRI LANKA/CEYLON. EVEN THEN THERE ARE MANY UNKNOWNS ABOUT BOTH ITEMS IS IT A LION OR A MAKARA FOR INSTANCE I THINK WE HAVE SETTLED THAT QUESTION AS TO IT BEING A LION ON THE POMMEL, BUT WHY WAS THE LION CHOSEN?
BUT STILL WE WONDER WHEN AND WHY DID THE KASTANE BECOME THE NATIONAL SWORD AND IF ITS PRESENT FORM IS NOT A WEAPON THEN WHAT DID ITS PREDECESOR THAT WAS USED IN WAR LOOK LIKE.?
THE PHIA IS STILL A BIT VAGUE AS TO ITS USE WAS IT CEREMONIAL AND A PRESTIEGE ITEM AND WHAT WAS IT USED FOR? WAS IT USED AND CARRIED FOR EVERY DAY USE OR ONLY USED FOR CERTIAN THINGS. WERE THE ONES THAT INCLUDED A STYLUS A TOOL CARRIED ONLY BY HIGH CLASS OFFICIALS OR SCRIBES?
THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE TWO ITEMS AND WE DID BECOME BOGGED DOWN AS IS SO OFTEN THE CASE WHEN TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT WE MEAN AND WHY TO OTHERS WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW AND DON'T SEEM TO GET THE POINT OR JUST DENY YOUR REASONING AND OBSERVATIONS.
I HAVE FOUND MY SELF IN THAT POSITION SEVERAL TIMES :rolleyes: WHEN I SAY I HAVE MADE SUCH AND SUCH OBSERVATIONS AND HAVE COME TO THESE CONCLUSIONS AND SOMEONE SAYS THEY DISAGREE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT EXAMEND THE OBJECT IN PERSON OR HAVE GOOD SOLID INFORMATION TO SUPPORT THEIR VIEW. THIS MAKES ONE WISH TO TRY AND EXPLAIN BETTER SO THE OTHER ONE MAY UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HAVE COME TO THESE CONCLUSIONS. IT NEVER WORKS NO MATTER HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS YOU TRY TO EXPLAIN SO I HAVE LEARNED IT IS BEST JUST TO MAKE YOUR STATEMENT AND MOVE ON NOT TO TRY TO EXPLAIN OR DEFEND IT AGASINST AN OPPOSING VIEW.
ITS HUMAN NATURE TO TRY AND DEFEND YOUR VIEWS BUT THE REPETITION OF YOUR VIEW AND THEN THE OPPOSITE VIEW BEING REPEATED OVER AND OVER ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. ITS LIKE THE OLD NEVER ENDING ARGUMENT ( IT IS TOO! , NO ITS NOT, IT IS TOO, NO ITS NOT!) :D I HAVE LEARNED TO RESIST JOINING THIS BATTLE AND LETTING THREADS DIE WITH QUESTIONS UNANSWERED WHEN THIS OCCURS AS IT BECOMES TEDIOUS AND POINTLESS AND NO FUN AT THAT STAGE. I ENJOY THE FORUM AND TRY TO ADD KNOWLEGE OR GET ANSWERS AND TO HAVE FUN, AT MY AGE WHEN IT IS NO LONGER FUN I FIND A NEW FUN THING TO DO. :D
I DO HOPE THE THREAD CONTINUES AS I THINK NEW INFORMATION HAS COME TO LIGHT AND THERE ARE MANY MORE AVENUES TO BE EXPLORED IN THE KASTANE AND PHIA NOT TO MENTION THE MANY OTHER WEAPONS FOUND IN CEYLON'S LONG HISTORY. :cool:
A FEW PICTURES #1, C. P. DIAS SINHALESE CHRISTIAN INTERPRETER
#2 THRU #5 A NEWER VERSION OF THE KASTANCE WITH A MAKARA POMEL :p
#6 THRU #11, VARIOUS PATISTHANAYA SPEARS
# 12 ANOTHER MODERN FORM OF SWORD SAID TO BE FROM SIRI LANKA WITH ELETHANT HEAD.

[Jim McDougall]

In order to better respond to the original query in this thread, I spent some time reviewing resources at hand to learn more about what types of swords were actually used in Sri Lanka from ancient times into more modern.
Turning to "Sinhala Weapons and Armour" (P.E.P. Deraniyagala, 1942, p.115) where he notes , "..it is interesting to note that among the 26 kinds of swords used by early Sinhalayans are those of Pandi, Vaduga, Malaya Telugu, Ayodhya and Java".

In his article Deraniyagala illustrates with line drawings a range of sword forms as seen primarily from iconographic sources such as friezes and frescoes with some as early as 6th ranging into the 12th, then again 16th and 17th. The earliest forms are described as leaf shaped, straight and double edged noted as being 'offensive' weapons.
Other types of blades including long straight single edged as well as wavy, saw edged and choppers are described, which of course would reflect the forms of many of the above listed regions.

With its importance in the export of fine steel in the trade networks of so many cultures and foreign powers it is not surprising that such diversity would be reflected in the armouries of then Sinhala in their swords .

Viewing many of the line drawings as well as examining some of the profiles of swords in "The Indian Sword" (P.Rawson, 1967) it is clear that there are distinct similarities in many of the forms to those of the Indian mainland.
Many of those with angular and lozenge shaped points resemble some of the Nair forms of India, as well as others from Andhra from Telugu speaking regions I believe . There are others which resemble forms seen in the iconography at Ajanta and Ellora from as early as 5th century, which profoundly reflects the connection via the Buddhist Faith in Sri Lanka and India.

Deraiyagala includes in the scope of his panoply of sword forms, the recognizable kasthane, which he feels begins in the 18th century with the influence of Arab sabres and he claims the lionhead comes into fashion.
Naturally it appears that this assessment is quite conservative, and it seems remarkable that the influence of Arab 'scimitars' as he calls them, would have taken this long to take hold.

Returning to the subject of the previously discussed kasthane alleged to provenance from the Hasekura mission which returned to Japan in 1620, in the article of November 15,1998, "Unique Kastane Sword in Japan" by Dr. P.H.D.H.DE Silva, there are interesting notes to another example .
It is claimed that two other examples of two other carved ivory 'simha head' hilts exist, one in the Victoria & Albert Museum in London, is believed to be a gift to the Chief of the Weerasinghe family by King Parakrama Bahu VI (1415-1467).

While this is tempting to accept this period as the earliest date for the noted lionhead hilt, as well as the example from the Hasekura mission c.1620, we must consider even these respected museum provenances as probabilities rather than conclusive evidence .

Returning to the spectrum of Sri Lankan swords from earlier periods and outside the prevalent kasthane analysis, we look to another article, "Two Old Sinhalese Swords", (by C.M.Fernando, 'Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, Ceylon Branch, Vol.XVIII , 1905, p388-91).
There are two old swords said to have inscriptions from the Kotte period c.1374 AD These swords and the translations on the inscriptions were examined by authority P.E.Pieris who commended the translations, but felt the swords were much more recent, and 'European' about 300 years old.
Incredibly these are clearly Indian swords with dish pommel and knuckleguard resembling tulwars of probably 17th c.

This is what I mean about museum descriptions often optimistic if not in many cases, almost fanciful .

In the earlier part of this thread, we listed a number of references which pertain to the swords of Sinhala, and I hope this rather incomplete overview might give a least some perspective on the type of swords probably used in Sinhalese history. As indicated most of this can only be surmised as even iconographic sources may be imbued with a degree of artistic license, as well as our pervasive focus on the kasthane which carries a great deal of speculative analysis.

However these are the things which comprise discussion, and I fully believe that suggestions, observations and material presented must be regarded as evidence to be considered, and respectfully analyzed objectively.

For me, the subject of the esoterica of Sinhalese arms, particularly the swords, have long been a fascinating topic and often visited over the past 15-20 years. I very much admire the tenacity and knowledge of all who have participated in this thread, and sincerely hope we can all continue looking into these arms. There are so many questions yet.

[Prasanna Weerakkody]

Vandoo,
Regarding the images; The mudellier ( SINHALESE CHRISTIAN INTERPRETER) never saw battle and the kasthane was only a rank symbol and often was of little value as weapon within that context. The images of Kasthana I included in my posts #25 #62 #89 illustrate Kasthana swords known to have a warrior past and most probably seen battle (fighting Kasthana types) More over the image of a Kasthana wielding Sinhala warrior would be more like the #139 “Nilame” painting I added rather than the long coated mudelliers working for the Dutch and British companies.

Post #87 include a reference to a historic text that confirms the use of Kasthana in the battlefields as early as mid 16th Century to the Mulleriyawela battle(1559).

I believe that it is important to identify what truly define a Kasthana sword- the makara headed and the Elephant headed arms shown in my mind do not qualify as Kasthana as they lack many of the features (including the typical arrangement of quillons, ricasso, “langet”, presentation of beast forms on guards and pommel, scabbard form etc.) that are particular to and define Kasthana apart from many other types of swords.

It is also important to identify the “type” weapons and deviants properly to avoid confusions.

Regards
Prasanna

[VANDOO]

I AGREE THE TWO SWORDS ARE NOT KASTANE AND MIGHT EVEN BE MADE IN SOUTHERN INDIA BUT BOTH WERE SOLD AS FROM SIRI LANKA AND THE ONE DOES AT LEAST HAVE WHAT CERTIANLY APPEARS TO BE A MAKARA POMMEL SO I INCLUDED IT FOR DISCUSSION. THE BRASS HANDLE WITH ELEPHANT HEAD IS LIKELY THE MOST RECENT AND POORLY MADE AND MAY HAVE ONLY BEEN MADE AS A SOUVINEER. THE ONE WITH THE MAKARA HANDLE LOOKS LIKE A REAL DRESS, CEREMONIAL OR PERHAPS PRESENTATION ITEM. IT REMINDS ME OF SOME DUTCH PRESENTATION SWORD FOR SOME REASON. AT LEAST WE HAVE SOMETHING WITH A MAKARA POMMEL. :D THE SPEARS WERE LISTED AS FROM CEYLON BUT NO DOUBT WERE PRESENT IN SOUTHERN INDIA AS WELL.
THE ANCIENT RULERS OF CEYLON WERE NOT STRANGERS TO WAR SO I AM SURE THERE WAS AT LEAST AS WIDE A RANGE OF WEAPONS AS THERE WAS IN SOUTHERN INDIA. LOOKING AT THE GLOBE THERE IS THE LIKELYHOOD OF INFLUENCE FROM MANY COUNTRYS WHERE TRADE BY SEA WAS THE NORM.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All~ In my next post as indicated a while ago I shall compare the Popham Armour sword with the Japanese Museum sword since they are two of the oldest existing records available. I will also introduce fresh evidence as to the Japanese blades ownership and a probable provenance. I hope readers may be patient whilst I organize my notes around this particular puzzle.

Kind regards to Vandoo for the interesting picture of the Makara hilt which I shall also comment upon based on the comparison and hopefully I shall illustrate the more complete reason for there being two hilts; The Lion and The Makara.

Of course this is only a hypothesis based upon 400 year old samples (one which is artwork and the other a museum exhibit) but it beams a light... so to speak.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

Vandoo, very interesting perspective as always, and thank you for adding these images which show some interesting variations of swords with somewhat similar theme to kastane. As Prasanna well notes, it is important to remember that these kinds of swords are quite apart from the kastane 'proper' which have the distinct elements in that particular classification.
Still, it is fascinating to see the cross diffusion of these swords which utilize the monster or 'grotesgue' (in European parlance) theme.

It seems well established that many sword and weapon forms were represented in Sri Lanka just as described by Deriniyagala, and suggested by Vandoo. As earlier mentioned, this extremely broad subject in most cases is of course speculated in considering the arms of other cultures and colonial and trade powers.
It would seem that in this quite international climate that there might be a degree of variation in the motif of the kastane in certain instances, but most references I have encountered have been described as sinha (lion) head and with makara heads on the quillons.
The instances where examples of traditionally configured kastane carry an unusual form in the creature on the pommel it is fascinating to consider that these may reflect origin in circumstances in region or ethnicity outside the typically seen sinha head examples.

Deraniyagala does note that the traditional form kasthane was a fighting sword, but the much more profusely embellished royal swords were of course outside such use , and Prasanna thank you for recalling those entries of yours where these battle related examples are described .

In threads which have reached this volume it is often the case that material presented some time ago is either not revisited, forgotten or simply out of reach as the discourse has developed for so long. It is much appreciated to bring some of these details back to the fore.

Best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All. The thread moves apace and new detail continues to squeeze out of this conundrum.. The Kastane, its history and the variable hilt styles commonly referred to as Lion or Makara hilt.

Great care is advised in focussing upon the correct time frame as little may be gleaned in examining the Dutch or English period in this respect. The weapon clearly tumbled through drastic changes and even became a badge of rank marker reportedly in about 1804.

To examine its potential origins, if the supposition is right about the Portuguese joint design, the earlier period is vastly more significant..thus any weapons or drawings of such examples from that time should perhaps be fully scrutinized.

Therefor, I have chosen the Popham Kastane and The Japanese Museum Kastane for comparison since they are the two known extant examples and whereas the other noted pieces are perhaps wrongly placed in the timeline of this weapon for now they may be set aside until a more positive proof is made of their accuracy in dating.

Forum is advised that though these are early examples that one is artwork and the other is a sword of as yet "uncertain provenance" and that it has been moved in and out of Japanese official ownership several times (private collection/museum) thus placing some doubt as to its authenticity.

I hope to show that the weapon was not only presented "as is"... to Hasekura Tsunenaga but that the owner and his stamp can be named even though the pictures at thread are a little grainy...

It may be known that the sword was presented on behalf of the King of Spain(actually according to Gustavs #187
Quote "Sasaki Kazuhiro has the oppinion, both keris and kastane are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga by Philip III.) whilst the Japanese delegation was in the Philippines prior to their final return leg of their journey to Japan".Unquote.

See below the blade stamp and the coat of arms of the Japanese ambassador...(Hasekura Tsunenaga) Originally he was Buddhist but converted to Christianity during his trip...and before arriving at the Philippines. This was no mean feat since Christians in Japan were being persecuted at the time...Also shown below are the blade stamps/engravings. It may be noted also that silver and gold and presumably exotic and rich weapons etc were forbidden to be imported to Japan thus if the sword could be presented to an individual rather than a country it perhaps skirted around that order?

Thus I suggest that the blade mark belongs to Hasekura Tsunenaga and was altered before being struck onto his sword.. and therefor the Museum weapon was actually presented and is real, genuine and actual for that timescale.

There is a powerful lobby to indicate Chinese blade provenance and that is well received, however, it is my view that the blade having been presented from the Spanish Royal Household at embassy level that it must have been a genuine piece of steel and more likely to be Spanish than anything else...It is certainly not a Kastane blade... and has the deep multiple grooves of the Spanish blade (see below)...and the shape, apparent balance and visual feel of "The Storta". Readers may be quick to realise that since the Popham is art... I cannot anyway compare blades. My point is that the time line is accurate on this style of hilt; The Lionhead style. I show for ease of viewing the Lionhead type below.

The Popham is intriguing but illustrates a remarkable fact... That at the same time as the Japanese weapon another was being carried on the armour shown. This is not any old armour but the highly respected and very elaborate private armour of a VIP; not an artists prop thus the Kastane must have been an original ...but vitally in the same time period as the Japanese variant. The hilt can perhaps be seen to be serpent/ makara/ gargoyle in fashion and with accompanying deities quite unlike the very recognizable Lion type.

It is thus respectfully proposed that possibly...two different hilts were in fashion; Lion and Makara and at the same time ... early in proceedings thus perhaps it may be possible to accommodate both designs exuding even from the same Royal Workshops or different schools of designers favouring one style or the other or a specific style being commissioned by different clients. It is envisaged that an artisans workshop working in such materials would have various designs and drawings and could offer clients a number of fine embelishments.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes and attachments;

For interest I illustrate below;
1. A Karava flag with Makara design.
2. A triple picture showing the original style swastika Buddhist design on the Hasekura Tsunenaga coat of arms..and Ships pennant.. to compare with the blade stamp/ engraving on the Japanese Museum blade.
3. A Malaya/Javanese hilt with Makara design.
4. The Popham Armour picture.
5. Hasekura Tsunenaga with ship detail...and in a sketch with his coat of Arms..easily seen with a crossed arrow form which would perhaps be simple to make into the letter N..and inscribe above it a cross...
6. Various other examples for ease of viewing..
7. The lions head design on the Japanese variant.
8. The more Lizardly, Serpent like, Gargoyle or Makara on a blue background of the Popham Armour type.
9. The Japanese Museum Blade from the work by Gustav on this thread #187.
10. Old "Taprobana" Sri Lanka Map... From the Ptolomy.

[fernando]

The Island ...
Let me show here, with number # 884, the map titled INSULA ZEILAN OLIM TAPOBRANA NUNE INCOLIS TENARISIM, made in 1676, by Casparus & Lootsman, including various cartouches, five naus (carraks) and the compass rose.
Luis de Camões in his epic Lusiadas (1556) in his first verse, has mentioned the men that passed beyond the Taprobana. The name of this island has been a symbol of mistery, of "the end of the world", a untrespassable wall. Already Ptolomeus (II century AD) has established the Taprobana as "the end of all navigation".
In image #886 we can see a map of Ceilão made by Sebastian Munster (1489-1552) a cosmograph from Bale, contemporary of Camões.

The weapons ...
Among the Cingalese weapons, the so called Pia-Kaeta, according to certain sources, descends from an arm of Indo-European Arian race, of the second millenium BC, which also happened to be used in today's Portuguese territory, the famous Falcata Lusitana. The farthest regions reached by the Arian race were precisely the Lusitânea and Ceilão. As life in the isolation of an island maintains the same standards during long time periods, the use of these falcata type knives was kept until recent centuries. Example #892 has handle with the typical breaking waves, which are also found in Cingalo-Portuguese sculptures, as shown in the ivory baby Jesus (XVI-XVII century), image #899.
Example #893 should be regarded as a 1500's specimen, with its 46 cms length (incl. scabbard), the grip in style of XVI century Portuguese processional crosses; a ritual weapon illustrating Luso-Cingalese history.

Curious ...
Also interesting is the XVI-XVII century ivory lace bilro shown in image #897, a craft introduced in Ceilão by Portuguese, contrary to the concept that this fashion was implemented there by the British.

-

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting recap on the Hasekura example Ibrahiim! and nice layout on the elements which need to be considered in analysis of this kastane held in the Sendai Museum in Tokyo. Actually I had not realized that this mission was in the Phllippines for two years before return to Japan in 1620 .

The nature of the blade profile does seem to have storta characteristics, at least in certain examples of those North Italian swords which of course had varying forms. Then there is the case of the creatures head on the peak of the blade at the back nearing the point, which resembles various 'oriental style mythical beasts.

The presence of that creature on the blade of course defines this blade as not North Italian made, yet as discussed there seems some semblance between the markings on the blade to markings actually used in Italy.
It seems they are made 'in the style of', which leads us back to, 'where was this blade made?.

As I was looking at the piha kaetta (#894) in Fernandos most interesting post in the illustration groupings, look at the channeled double fullers on the blade. For some reason there seems a similarity to those on the 'Hasekura' blade, at least it would seem so.

The suggestion by Ibrahiim that these markings were fashioned for alignment to Hasekura and the mission is interesting, and in looking at them the one which is a curious configuration of lines resembling an oriental ideograph in fashion, in one perspective (Rohrschach view) may be a ship of carrack form with a pennant atop ??

Both remain open to interpretation, but as I noted I have found nothing corresponding in European makers marks. The cross above on the N is of course well known in merchant marks, particularly the East India Company balemark , a quartered heart with cross atop. Many other marks used this cross above in similar manner of the familiar cross and orb.

The scope of this discussion is notably complex, particularly with the analysis of the notably well established identity of the zoomorphic pommel head on the true kasthane. It seems quite the bane of all analysis of mythical and heraldic beasts to properly identify exactly what they are, especially as many are artistic interpretations of myth, allegorical descriptions and often totemic symbolism.

It would seem that focus on what creature is represented on the true kasthane pommel is quite well established as the sinha or lionhead, and that corresponds to long venerated history of Sinhala and its people. It does seem possible however that some alteration of the dominant figure on some examples might be adjusted if in certain circumstances. These would be variants, and historically interesting as they may represent particular groups or regions.

These grotesgue creature heads seem to have been most appealing to Europeans artistically and a brass hilt hanger recalling kasthane design is seen described as English c1700 (A North, 1989, p.85) and "...the pommel is in the form of an exotic lion remarkably similar to the beast found on some carved wood and ivory Sinhalese hilts imported into Europe by the Dutch in the 1700s. There seem to have been a number of forms outside the kasthane configuration but still with mythical beasts carved in ivory by Sinhalese craftsmen for the VOC in the 1660s and earller .

There would appear to have been profound parallels between European heraldic beasts and East Indies mythological creatures, and sometimes it seems there have been disagreements even on the identity of the heads on pommels of European swords of 17th into 18th c and even later whether eagle or griffin head etc.

Although the identity issue on the pommel head creature on kasthane has certain interest and importance, so too remain the other questions:

What is the earliest corroborating evidence for the use of the zoomorphic heads and motif on the kasthane sword , and about what period would transition have occurred?

I know I have always been curious about the kasthanes which exist having VOC blades. Most I have seen seem to have large dates stamped from 1730s to 1760s. Would these have been used by Dutch forces using their hanger blades, or supplied blades to Sinhalese? Obviously colonial conflicts were in place, but would those allied to Dutch have used these?

When did the distinct multi quillon system arrive in Sinhala . It seems apparent on European swords from 16th century. Again, earliest use of these kinds on hilts.

All these questions and more, even extending to the piha kaetta and its development as well as any other Sri Lankan arms with specific questions toward their history of use there are open to discussion.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

1. When did the distinct multi quillon system arrive in Sinhala? It seems apparent on European swords from 16th century.
2. Earliest date of manufacture?

Hello Jim, Your post is very interesting and poses a series of questions so if I may isolate a few at a time please; inked in red and numbered above if I may? What is also amazing is your reference to the fullers which look very similar to the Piha Kheata (and also to the Chinese pole arm blade...) Well spotted!!

The quillons appear to mimic the Vajra claw form seen on religious axes from the region. I am not sure if they were meant to act as quillons but rather as a decorative and religious design feature.The job of quillons ...to trap a sliding blade and twist from the opponents hand is not a feature on these weapons. The beautiful lavish design however feeds the notion that the court or dress sword function is more apparent and of course compliant in the religious affiliation with the Vajra.

The finials end with a creature or minor deity some of which exude cloud patterns and the same heads appear all over the hilt. The rainguard also appears decorative though is practical in securing the weapon in the scabbard. This Vee shaped structure mimics a sort of tail and is often decorated in fans perhaps indicating the tail of a peacock?

In reply to the second question..If the Portuguese Sri Lankan joint design or construction in Royal Workshops is true then the early manufacture must have been not before their arrival...Lourenço de Almeida arrived in 1505.

Please view the Quillons below and for interest I add a strange pipe from the region...showing a gargoyle like monster ...

It may be noted that the Vajra is often associated with the Makara and Quillon like devices with exuding other Deities occuring in the general theme; similar to the overall concept of the Kastane hilt.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

3.The nature of the blade profile does seem to have storta characteristics, at least in certain examples of those North Italian swords which of course had varying forms. Then there is the case of the creatures head on the peak of the blade at the back nearing the point, which resembles various 'oriental style mythical beasts.


Salaams Jim, This is indeed a puzzle! I suggest that one scenario may have the weapon arriving into the Philipines via Acapulco and across the Pacific...whilst another perhaps has a hybrid being made for presentation specially and from existing parts of various different mixed Chinese and other spare parts in the King of Spains workshops in the Philipines? It puzzles a lot of people that here we are holding up for comparison a Spanish delivered sword of curious origin presented to the Japanese in Manila in 1620, looking like a hybrid Sri Lankan Kastane but possibly nothing to do with Sri Lanka at all! (except the hilt is interesting from that perspective) see below for another clearly Lion like hilt on a Storta.

I have identified a number of weapons whose blades meet some of the criteria but I wonder where the monster came from?...If the blade is a Storta was it struck later perhaps just prior to the presentation date? If the Japanese struck the blade stamps did they simply add the monster decoration at the same time? Is it all a mixed bag with Chinese/ Oriental features? The fullers are very interesting...as you note.

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12064 where a comparison is quite close.

Viewing the Storta line up below we also confront a Lion Head hilt...?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gustav]

Dear Ibrahiim,

I am forced to respond to this, becouse you "quoted" my post #187 in this, according to Jim, "Interesting recap on the Hasekura example", #237.


Forum is advised that though these are early examples that one is artwork and the other is a sword of as yet "uncertain provenance" and that it has been moved in and out of Japanese official ownership several times (private collection/museum) thus placing some doubt as to its authenticity.


Since the return of Hasekura Tsunenaga in Japan, the Kastane was stored by Date clan in Sendai until 1951, when an amount of artifacts were donated to the state, since then in a rang of National Treasure. These artifacts are the reason for foundation of Sendai City Museum and the stock of it. The provenance is as impeccable as it could be for an 17th century object in a curiosity chamber collection in Renaissance Europe. Actually it's the best possible provenance.


I hope to show that the weapon was not only presented "as is"... to Hasekura Tsunenaga but that the owner and his stamp can be named even though the pictures at thread are a little grainy...

It may be known that the sword was presented on behalf of the King of Spain(actually according to Gustavs #187
Quote "Sasaki Kazuhiro has the oppinion, both keris and kastane are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga by Philip III.) whilst the Japanese delegation was in the Philippines prior to their final return leg of their journey to Japan".Unquote.


I (or better Sasaki Kazuhiro) never have said, that the weapons were presented to the delegation in Philippines. The opinion of Sasaki Kazuhiro is the absolute contrary of it. Here oncemore the passage of question from my post #187:

"Sasaki Kazuhiro has the opinion, both keris and kastane are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga by Philip III. Here in short he's points and other interesting details:

Among the 52 mementos that Hasekura brought to Japan, only three were presented to Date clan: portrait of Pope Paul V, kastane and keris.

Date Masamune drafted official letters only to Pope, the mayor of Sevilla and King Philipp III.

Masamune allowed Hasekura to take care of all official contacts with dignitaries in other countries.

Masamune obviously had great interest in the messages and gifts these figures bestoved on Hasekura.

Then Sasaki Kazuhiro writes:

"If we suppose Masamune requested only the articles from the three men he deemed most critical, then the two swords should have come from one of these three men. (...) it seems much more likely the Namban swords were a gift from Philipp III. This would also explain the reason these gifts made their way to the Masamune collection, while presents from dignitaries in other locales were allowed to remain in the Hasekura collection."

End of the quote.

Actually in his article Sasaki Kazuhiro represents the opinion (and it's a scholar oppinion), the weapons are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga in Madrid, possibly in one of the two audiences he had with the King of Spain.

Please, when you are quoting your favorite source of knowledge Wikipedia (there:"and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines"), don't mingle it with a contrary opinion of a scholar. The dish resulting of this is unpalatable.



See below the blade stamp and the coat of arms of the Japanese ambassador...(Hasekura Tsunenaga) Originally he was Buddhist but converted to Christianity during his trip...and before arriving at the Philippines. This was no mean feat since Christians in Japan were being persecuted at the time...Also shown below are the blade stamps/engravings. It may be noted also that silver and gold and presumably exotic and rich weapons etc were forbidden to be imported to Japan thus if the sword could be presented to an individual rather than a country it perhaps skirted around that order?

Thus I suggest that the blade mark belongs to Hasekura Tsunenaga and was altered before being struck onto his sword.. and therefor the Museum weapon was actually presented and is real, genuine and actual for that timescale.


Sorry, but I don't see the slightest resemblance between the blade stamp and the coat of arms of Hasekura Tsunenaga.

In your post #201 you say, the blade stamp is an M, now it supposedly is an H (as in an earlier version of your #237). The literate people in this world see it as N.

Anyway, bringing the personal stamp on an artifact, which is to be presented to this persons feudal lord is absolutely unthinkable in medieval Japan. Oncemore - this sword belongs not to the Hasekura's collection. It belongs to the Date's collection and was one of the three artifacts (out of a total of 52) officially presented to Date.


There is a powerful lobby to indicate Chinese blade provenance and that is well received, however, it is my view that the blade having been presented from the Spanish Royal Household at embassy level that it must have been a genuine piece of steel and more likely to be Spanish than anything else...It is certainly not a Kastane blade... and has the deep multiple grooves of the Spanish blade (see below)....


As I already wrote in my post #187, the presentation of Spanish arms to a foreigner was then prohibited by law.



The Popham is intriguing but illustrates a remarkable fact... That at the same time as the Japanese weapon another was being carried on the armour shown. This is not any old armour but the highly respected and very elaborate private armour of a VIP; not an artists prop thus the Kastane must have been an original ...but vitally in the same time period as the Japanese variant. The hilt can perhaps be seen to be serpent/ makara/ gargoyle in fashion and with accompanying deities quite unlike the very recognizable Lion type.


All handles presented in your outstanding post #237 are lionheads of different carving schools, with the sole exception of the Makara hilted hilt from Malay Peninsula from the very end of 19 cent./beg. 20. cent., described in your post as "A Malaya/Javanese hilt".

Dear Jim, sorry, but to call #237, besides a lot of harmless wishful thinking containing also a false quotation, an interesting recap on Hasekura example is quite an indecent joke.

Regards,
Gustav

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

I am forced to respond to this, becouse you "quoted" my post #187 in this, according to Jim, "Interesting recap on the Hasekura example", #237.



Since the return of Hasekura Tsunenaga in Japan, the Kastane was stored by Date clan in Sendai until 1951, when an amount of artifacts were donated to the state, since then in a rang of National Treasure. These artifacts are the reason for foundation of Sendai City Museum and the stock of it. The provenance is as impeccable as it could be for an 17th century object in a curiosity chamber collection in Renaissance Europe. Actually it's the best possible provenance.



I (or better Sasaki Kazuhiro) never have said, that the weapons were presented to the delegation in Philippines. The opinion of Sasaki Kazuhiro is the absolute contrary of it. Here oncemore the passage of question from my post #187:

"Sasaki Kazuhiro has the opinion, both keris and kastane are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga by Philip III. Here in short he's points and other interesting details:

Among the 52 mementos that Hasekura brought to Japan, only three were presented to Date clan: portrait of Pope Paul V, kastane and keris.

Date Masamune drafted official letters only to Pope, the mayor of Sevilla and King Philipp III.

Masamune allowed Hasekura to take care of all official contacts with dignitaries in other countries.

Masamune obviously had great interest in the messages and gifts these figures bestoved on Hasekura.

Then Sasaki Kazuhiro writes:

"If we suppose Masamune requested only the articles from the three men he deemed most critical, then the two swords should have come from one of these three men. (...) it seems much more likely the Namban swords were a gift from Philipp III. This would also explain the reason these gifts made their way to the Masamune collection, while presents from dignitaries in other locales were allowed to remain in the Hasekura collection."

End of the quote.

Actually in his article Sasaki Kazuhiro represents the opinion (and it's a scholar oppinion), the weapons are presented to Hasekura Tsunenaga in Madrid, possibly in one of the two audiences he had with the King of Spain.

Please, when you are quoting your favorite source of knowledge Wikipedia (there:"and a set of Ceylonese and Indonesian daggers acquired in the Philippines"), don't mingle it with a contrary opinion of a scholar. The dish resulting of this is unpalatable.




Sorry, but I don't see the slightest resemblance between the blade stamp and the coat of arms of Hasekura Tsunenaga.

In your post #201 you say, the blade stamp is an M, now it supposedly is an H (as in an earlier version of your #237). The literate people in this world see it as N.

Anyway, bringing the personal stamp on an artifact, which is to be presented to this persons feudal lord is absolutely unthinkable in medieval Japan. Oncemore - this sword belongs not to the Hasekura's collection. It belongs to the Date's collection and was one of the three artifacts (out of a total of 52) officially presented to Date.



As I already wrote in my post #187, the presentation of Spanish arms to a foreigner was then prohibited by law.




All handles presented in your outstanding post #237 are lionheads of different carving schools, with the sole exception of the Makara hilted hilt from Malay Peninsula from the very end of 19 cent./beg. 20. cent., described in your post as "A Malaya/Javanese hilt".

Dear Jim, sorry, but to call #237, besides a lot of harmless wishful thinking containing also a false quotation, an interesting recap on Hasekura example is quite an indecent joke.

Regards,
Gustav


Salaams Gustav, Your input earlier was very useful to forum exploration and research. The fact is...we don't know... that is why I have used plentiful "maybe" and "possibly" and "perhaps"... largely since many reports are conflicting but of course if you have some more details then we shall naturally soak them up into the discussion and there is no need to take offence...I maen hang on Gustav we are trying our best here...but are only human. Sometimes in supposition I make mistakes...but its a forum and very little is carved in stone.

The crossed arrows and swastika with the cross above make a very interesting discussion so it is only a well aimed possibility... maybe we ought to get the page you placed translated? It could help... as would perhaps be better photographs. I am a little far from Japan but would relish a visIt to the Museum.. :shrug:

I continue to absorb volumes of detail about the famous Japanese tour and shall continue to do so. WIKIPEDIA IS NOT MY FAVOURITE SOURCE OF KNOWLEDGE.. FORUM IS.

When you state categorically;
All handles presented in your outstanding post #237 are lionheads of different carving schools, what evidence do you place for that please? Have you details on the Sri Lankan carving schools within the Royal Workshops? Are you saying that proof exists of a time based solution to Makara heads versus Lion Heads...? (I insert here the caution that insofar as the potential of the two styles there is always the chance that "PERHAPS" there is only one... and that the final shape was down to artisan freedom of expression/client choice and that history is playing a joke on all of us..

Sometimes probing and detective work uncover more questions than they solve ... this may be a case in point but we work together actually and the final product is a Forum one. Some would say its like making an omelet...and you know? ... we have to break a few eggs along the way. Either way you ought never to feel forced to enter a thread discussion as always input is sought from all... The ink is free.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :)

[Jim McDougall]

Gustav, thank you so much for your thorough and edifying clarifications on these previous entries by myself and Ibrahiim. I am not sure where we fell off course with thinking this intriguing sword was somehow obtained in the Philippines, but clearly that assumption is incorrect as you have gratefully noted that the Hasekura mission indeed was present in Madrid. I admit I relied unfortunately on memory from research some time ago and this I fear may have given traction to that assumption. Thank you so much for this correction. It is so important of course to reconfirm and verify facts and evidence, and I failed to do that.

Can you detail the article by Kazuhiro so that I may obtain a copy? clearly I need to reread it:)

I think the reference to the provenance referred to the questions surrounding the peculiar nature of the elements of this example as opposed to more familiar blades and other features of kasthane, that is, toward where the sword may have been produced. One of the key points in examining this sword was originally to establish a terminus ante quem for the lionhead kasthane hilt . Any impunity toward the Sendai Museum was not intended and apologies for that perception.

I would also respond to my post terming the 'recap' on the Hasekura example, and explain that I meant this as a reference to reviewing the material previously posted . While I admit that I often extend ideas and observations which are admittedly sometimes fanciful in degree or by analogous description, and I often respond to other posts which are in kind, I would respectfully disagree that my efforts are any kind of indecent joke, and aside from that unfortunate remark, I very much appreciate your beautifully written and extremely helpful post.

Now, returning to some of the questions I have, I had wondered about the interesting guard configuration and discovered that similar exist on forms of the 'spada schiavonesca' from c. 1480-1500 (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, p.345) in the early hilts of schiavona. The basic guard and quillon structure is of that and of course other European forms which later developed into the often more complex guards.
It is interesting to consider these hilt systems in their influence on those of the 'nimcha' as well as of course, the kasthane (as discussed in A. North, 1975, "A Late 15th Century Italian Sword, 'The Connoisseur'). In another article by the late Mr. North in 1989 ("17th and 18th Century Europe", Ed, M. Coe p.68-69) he notes with regard to the wares brought to Europe by Dutch traders from the Far East, "...they included some extraordinary sword hilts based on contemporary European forms- local craftsmen clearly had European hilts to copy from but decorated and constructed them in local and traditional styles".

It is clear that many features of European swords, particularly from North Italy filtered through trade routes from the late 15th century onward, and that that these often profoundly influenced the indigenous weapons of many ports of call. It seems that perhaps, conversely some features of weapons or material culture in these 'exotic' ports indeed influenced that of many other visited ports as well of course as their destined European trade centers.

There are a good number of European hangers which have lionheads and other grotesque creatures in their theme which date around 17th and 18th centuries clearly reflecting these influences. Some of the 'makara' head example swords often mistaken for Sinhalese are actually from Malaya, Thailand, Viet Nam and other SE Asian regions, but these reflect usually their own traditional symbolism..it is primarily the zoomorphic pommel concept which is notable toward comparison.

Great discussion here, and Gustav, thank you again for the clarification and extremely helpful notes.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All… Note to Library;

I add the following interesting detail from http://civitavecchia.co.uk/hasekura.html

Quote”Hasekura Tsunenaga, the Samurai Ambassador
Hasekura Rokuemon Tsunenaga (or "Francisco Felipe Faxicura", as he was baptized in Spain) (1571–1622) (Japanese: 支倉六右衛門常長, also spelled Faxecura Rocuyemon in period European sources, reflecting the contemporary pronunciation of Japanese) was a Japanese samurai and retainer of Date Masamune, the Daimyo of Sendai. In the years 1613 through 1620, Hasekura headed a diplomatic mission to the Vatican in Rome, traveling through New Spain (arriving in Acapulco and departing from Veracruz) and visiting various ports-of-call in Europe. This historic mission is called the Keichō Embassy (慶長使節), and follows the Tenshō embassy (天正使節) of 1582. On the return trip, Hasekura and his companions re-traced their route across Mexico in 1619, sailing from Acapulco for Manila, and then sailing north to Japan in 1620. He is conventionally considered the first Japanese ambassador in the Americas and in Europe .

The Japanese Embassy went on to Italy where they were able to meet with Pope Paul V in Rome in November 1615, the same year Galileo Galilei was first confronted by the Roman Inquisition regarding his findings against geocentricism. Hasekura remitted to the Pope two gilded letters, one in Japanese and one in Latin, containing a request for a trade treaty between Japan and Mexico and the dispatch of Christian missionaries to Japan. These letters are still visible in the Vatican archives. The Latin letter, probably written by Luis Sotelo for Date Masamune, reads, in part:
"Kissing the Holy feet of the Great, Universal, Most Holy Lord of The Entire World, Pope Paul, in profound submission and reverence, I, Idate Masamune, King of Wôshû in the Empire of Japan, suppliantly say: The Franciscan Padre Luis Sotelo came to our country to spread the faith of God. On that occasion, I learnt about this faith and desired to become a Christian, but I still haven't accomplished this desire due to some small issues. However, in order to encourage my subjects to become Christians, I wish that you send missionaries of the Franciscan church. I guarantee that you will be able to build a church and that your missionaries will be protected. I also wish that you select and send a bishop as well. Because of that, I have sent one of my samurai, Hasekura Rokuemon, as my representative to accompany Luis Sotelo across the seas to Rome, to give you a stamp of obedience and to kiss your feet. Further, as our country and Nueva España are neighbouring countries, could you intervene so that we can discuss with the King of Spain, for the benefit of dispatching missionaries across the seas."
-Translation of the Latin letter of Date Masamune to the Pope.
The Pope agreed to the dispatch of missionaries, but left the decision for trade to the King of Spain. The Roman Senate also gave to Hasekura the honorary title of Roman Citizen, in a document he brought back to Japan, and which is preserved today in Sendai. Sotelo also described the visit to the Pope, book De ecclesiae Iaponicae statu relatio (published posthumously in 1634):
"When we got there by the aid of God in the Year of Our Salvation 1615, not only were we kindly received by His Holiness the great Pope, with the Holy College of the Cardinals and a gathering of bishops and nobles, and even the joy and general happiness of the Roman People, but we and three others (whom the Japanese Christians had specially designated to announce their condition with respect to the Christian religion) were heard, rested, and just as we were hoping, dispatched as quickly as possible."
-(Sotelo, De ecclesiae Iaponicae statu relatio)
Besides the official description of Hasekura's visit to Rome, some contemporary communications tend to indicate that political matters were also discussed, and that an alliance with Date Masamune was suggested as a way to establish Christian influence in the whole of Japan:
"The Ambassador strongly insisted that the authority and power of his ruler was superior to that of many European countries"
-(Anonymous Roman communication, dated 10 October 1615)
"The Franciscan Spanish fathers are explaining that the King of the Ambassador [Hasekura Tsunenaga] will soon become the supreme ruler of his country, and that, not only will they become Christians and follow the will of the church of Rome, but they will also in turn convert the rest of the population. This is why they are requesting the dispatch of a high eclesiastic together with the missionaries. Because of this, many people have been doubting the true purpose of the embassy, and are wondering if they are not looking for some other benefit."
-(Letter of the Venetian ambassador, 7 November 1615).” Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[VANDOO]

DANGER CONJECTURE AHEAD. :rolleyes: THE JAPANESE AMBASSADOR WAS PRESENT IN SPAIN FOR TWO YEARS SO PERHAPS A SWORD COULD HAVE BEEN SPECIALY COMISSIONED AND MADE. HE MAY HAVE SEEN THE VARIOUS SWORDS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES PRESENT IN SPAINS MUSEUMS. THOSE ACCOMPANING HIM WOULD HAVE REPORTED TO THE KING ANYTHING HE FOUND MOST INTERESTING AND COMENTED ON. THE LAW AGAINST GIVING SPANISH ARMS TO A FORIGNER MAY HAVE BEEN BYPASSED BY HAVING A SWORD COMISSIONED ESPECIALLY FOR THE AMBASSADOR INCORPORATING THE FEATURES AND TYPES HE MOST ADMIRED WHEN LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLES IN SPANISH COLLECTIONS.
THE CARVING ON THE BACK OF THE BLADE AS WELL AS ITS FORM DOES NOT RESEMBLE A SIRI LANKAN KASTANE BLADE IT LOOKS MORE LIKE THE SPANISH BLADE SHAPE. THE DRAGON OR MONSTER CARVED INTO THE BLADE LOOKS MORE LIKE WHAT IS SEEN ON CHINESE OR OTHER ASIAN COUNTRIES POLE ARM BLADES. THE HANDLE IS CLOSE TO THE KASTANE FORM BUT A BIT DIFFERENT. THERE DOSENT SEEM TO BE A SCABBARD FOR THE SWORD AND THE ONE IN THE PAINTING HAS A SCABBARD LOOKING MORE LIKE A LEATHER EUROPEAN FORM THAN ONE FROM CEYLON. MOST KASTANE DO NOT HAVE A SCABBARD AS THEY ARE USUALLY MADE OF THIN WOOD AND ARE VERY FRAGILE. THE SILVER ONES HOLD UP BETTER BUT ARE OFTEN MISSING AS WELL. IF THERE WAS A KASTANE PRESENT IN THE COLLECTIONS IN SPAIN PERHAPS ITS SCABBARD WAS MISSING AS WELL.
WHAT WOULD PROVIDE SOME GOOD INFORMATION AND NOT JUST CONJECTURE WOULD BE TO HAVE SOMEONE FAMILIAR WITH FORGED BLADES FROM SPAIN LOOK AT THE SWORD AS WELL AS SOMEONE EXPERT IN SIRI LANKAN WORKMANSHIP. UNTIL THEN WE MUST DIG AND SPECULATE AND PERHAPS HIT ON SOME FACTS ALONG THE WAY :D .
I DON'T HAVE A PICTURE OF A BLADE WITH A CARVED MONSTER BUT INCLUDE TWO CHINESE BLADES A POLE ARM BLADE AND A SWORD.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ Note to Library.

From http://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/Xavier/Hasekura.html

I quote"Having just crossed the Pacific Ocean Hasekura Tsunenaga had an audience with the Mexican viceroy in 1614. After traversing Mexico between Acapulco and Vera cruz and the Atlantic Ocean in 1615 he sailed for Spain where he met with the Spanish monarch Philip III (1598-1621). While in Spain he was baptized a Christian. The ceremony was conducted by the Archbishop of Toledo and the Duke of Lerma was designated as Hasekura's Godfather. Hasekura'a delegation stayed in Spain for eight months before traveling on to Italy".Unquote.

Thus since got the weapons presented there it would seem plausible that there could have been some Spanish influence in the case of a weapon having apparently a mixed provenance?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

DANGER CONJECTURE AHEAD. :rolleyes: THE JAPANESE AMBASSADOR WAS PRESENT IN SPAIN FOR TWO YEARS SO PERHAPS A SWORD COULD HAVE BEEN SPECIALY COMISSIONED AND MADE. HE MAY HAVE SEEN THE VARIOUS SWORDS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES PRESENT IN SPAINS MUSEUMS. THOSE ACCOMPANING HIM WOULD HAVE REPORTED TO THE KING ANYTHING HE FOUND MOST INTERESTING AND COMENTED ON. THE LAW AGAINST GIVING SPANISH ARMS TO A FORIGNER MAY HAVE BEEN BYPASSED BY HAVING A SWORD COMISSIONED ESPECIALLY FOR THE AMBASSADOR INCORPORATING THE FEATURES AND TYPES HE MOST ADMIRED WHEN LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLES IN SPANISH COLLECTIONS.
THE CARVING ON THE BACK OF THE BLADE AS WELL AS ITS FORM DOES NOT RESEMBLE A SIRI LANKAN KASTANE BLADE IT LOOKS MORE LIKE THE SPANISH BLADE SHAPE. THE DRAGON OR MONSTER CARVED INTO THE BLADE LOOKS MORE LIKE WHAT IS SEEN ON CHINESE OR OTHER ASIAN COUNTRIES POLE ARM BLADES. THE HANDLE IS CLOSE TO THE KASTANE FORM BUT A BIT DIFFERENT.


Salaams Vandoo... Like Hasekura and the Pacific our posts crossed... :) Yes I dont give a lot of weight to the illegality of the weapon since he was given a European name on Baptism and later even made a Roman citizen...and since he was gifted it by the King himself I dont really think it was a problem. I do agree that more weight to a Spanish weapon would be plausible and I note your point on the hilt as well as the blade fullers and odd monster.
Thank you for your post.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Pics from Boccia & Coelho ("Armi Bianche Italiene", 1975, #516-519), this is an Italian sword presented to Philip III of Spain by Carlo Emanuel I of Savoy (1562-1630) apparently in 1603.

Worthy of note, the lionhead, and the 'monster head' on the scabbard tip.
While the blade is more of a narrow type with yelman rather than the form on the Hasekura example, these other features are interesting in considering influences present in Spain prior to the mission's arrival.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a falchion stated German from Stone (1934, p.224, #276) and stated 15th century. There is little information in text in Stone on this sword, its reference is shown as "A Cyclopedia of Costume or Dictionary of Dress" (James R. Planche, N.Y. 1877).

Please note the pronounced peak on this example, resembling this notable feature on the Hasekura sword. While the German provenance is of course distracting from our focus on Spain, and Italy, it is important to note that going through Calvert (1907, "Spanish Arms & Armour") there are profusely examples of German armour supplied to Spanish nobles and monarchs.
Armourers were typically actually 'brokers' and assembled harness components from many subcontracted artisans. With this they often furnished swords in many cases.

The 15th century classification is of course considerably earlier than the period we are discussing, but these blade profiles remained prevalent for many generations, even centuries with tradition bound Spain .