ID for this African dagger + sword set

[thinreadline]

Again from my heap which I am sorting , is this set. Although the scabbards are really well made the blade ( at least of the dagger ) is very poor quality . I assume these are tourist stuff perhaps from somewhere in Africa, but seek the opinions of members. The short sword is currently stuck fast in the scabbard .. any tips on how to ease it out ?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Again from my heap which I am sorting , is this set. Although the scabbards are really well made the blade ( at least of the dagger ) is very poor quality . I assume these are tourist stuff perhaps from somewhere in Africa, but seek the opinions of members. The short sword is currently stuck fast in the scabbard .. any tips on how to ease it out ?


Salaams thinredline.. Lovely leather. Nice weapons totally out of my area ... so cannot comment on the tourist idea... Iain will know... Loose it up with a little olive oil I reckon.. that will feed the leather as well. Other leather products on the closed thread on restoration. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[katana]

Hi,
unfortunately tourist bring backs .....used to appear on eBay fairly regularly.

Regards David

[thinreadline]

Salaams thinredline.. Lovely leather. Nice weapons totally out of my area ... so cannot comment on the tourist idea... Iain will know... Loose it up with a little olive oil I reckon.. that will feed the leather as well. Other leather products on the closed thread on restoration. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

As always great thanks for your suggestions Ibrahiim
Richmond

[thinreadline]

Hi,
unfortunately tourist bring backs .....used to appear on eBay fairly regularly.

Regards David

Ah well , as I thought ... but from where ??
Richmond

[Jim McDougall]

The leatherwork looks Manding Richmond, and these are Saharan, though as noted commercial items so produced with Berber and Tuareg concepts along with the reflected motif. I have always thought Manding leatherwork extremely handsomely done so these are pretty attractive. Interesting to see the bulb on the end of the scabbard. On janbiyyas I believe this is termed the 'thum' (=garlic bulb in Arabic) as described in references I have seen.


All the best,
Jim

[Dom]

Good evening
this production it's come from North Niger (may be Agadez), from Berber ethnic tribes for instance; Tuareg
if somebody said ... north Mali ... could be also, as per as the Tuareg tribes are split into at least 5 countries
anyway, 20th century craft (good craft) :D

à +

Dom

[regihis]

TUAREG DAGGER FOR TOURISTS

[katana]

Ah well , as I thought ... but from where ??
Richmond


Hi Richmond,
nearly all the ebay listings stated Toureg, these do seem to vary in quality but believe that this type/style is not a copy of a genuine sword form (of the area) but produced purely for the tourist market.

Regards David

[thinreadline]

Hi Richmond,
nearly all the ebay listings stated Toureg, these do seem to vary in quality but believe that this type/style is not a copy of a genuine sword form (of the area) but produced purely for the tourist market.

Regards David

Appreciated David , thanks... of course we in England, for some bizarre reason , dont get to see edged weapons on ebay ! And this is ebay's doing, it has nothing to do with British law ...VERY irritating !

[thinreadline]

Good evening
this production it's come from North Niger (may be Agadez), from Berber ethnic tribes for instance; Tuareg
if somebody said ... north Mali ... could be also, as per as the Tuareg tribes are split into at least 5 countries
anyway, 20th century craft (good craft) :D

à +

Dom

Thanks that very interesting , beyond Africa I had no ideas at all..

[thinreadline]

The leatherwork looks Manding Richmond, and these are Saharan, though as noted commercial items so produced with Berber and Tuareg concepts along with the reflected motif. I have always thought Manding leatherwork extremely handsomely done so these are pretty attractive. Interesting to see the bulb on the end of the scabbard. On janbiyyas I believe this is termed the 'thum' (=garlic bulb in Arabic) as described in references I have seen.


All the best,
Jim

Thanks Jim .. very useful ... like the garlic bulb bit ... appeals to me as a biologist working in horticulture !
Richmond

[Jim McDougall]

As always my pleasure Richmond. Your note on your vocation is interesting too, that must be absolutely fascinating work! With that I would note that among the many dynamics of the decoration and motif on ethnographic edged weapons, one of the most prevalent is that of various floral motif as well as certain botanicals.
One of the most intriguing has been the area which Jens has fielded for some years now, the symbolism present in the types of flowers represented in the motif on tulwar decoration. We know that the Mughals were pretty much obsessed with gardens, and that various rulers chose particular flowers for the leitmotif of their dynasty. If I recall correctly Shah Jahan favored the tulip. As to the other examples such as lilies, and of course the lotus, which was used widely throughout Asia as well as the chrysanthemum much of the symbolism is at this point I believe speculative, but compelling.

All part of what makes the study of ethnographic weapons so entirely fascinating!!! Thanks again for sharing all of these weapons!

All the best,
Jim

[Iain]

Just to confirm what others have already said, these are modern tourist pieces from the Tuareg. The style is not particularly historical and I think was probably engineered mainly to show off the leather working skills of the artisans. The blades are usually from scrap steel and not forged.

A few other patterns of tourist swords exist most with these pointed tapering blades, some with very elaborate scabbards and multiple small knives attached.

[thinreadline]

Just to confirm what others have already said, these are modern tourist pieces from the Tuareg. The style is not particularly historical and I think was probably engineered mainly to show off the leather working skills of the artisans. The blades are usually from scrap steel and not forged.

A few other patterns of tourist swords exist most with these pointed tapering blades, some with very elaborate scabbards and multiple small knives attached.

Thanks Iain ... yes the leatherwork is superb but the blades are really crude.
Cheers
Richmond

[katana]

Appreciated David , thanks... of course we in England, for some bizarre reason , dont get to see edged weapons on ebay ! And this is ebay's doing, it has nothing to do with British law ...VERY irritating !


Hi Richmond,
being in the UK myself....I am also a 'victim' of eBay's ridiculous policy.....Irritating is, I feel, an understatement ;) I have contacted them several times in an effort to get them to review the 'blanket ban' on knife sales ....so far no reply :(

All the best
David

[thinreadline]

Hi Richmond,
being in the UK myself....I am also a 'victim' of eBay's ridiculous policy.....Irritating is, I feel, an understatement ;) I have contacted them several times in an effort to get them to review the 'blanket ban' on knife sales ....so far no reply :(

All the best
David
Well done David, I will also have a go at them . It just makes no sense .
Richmond