Shamshir (yes you've guessed it No.3) translation request please

[katana]

It seems that Shamshirs are like buses ....wait for one ....and then three arrive at the same time :)

Shamshir, no scabbard. Hilt slabs are made from a resin type substance....has anyone seen anything like it....and know what it is.

Gold inlaid cartouche with a lot of losses. Arabic script on the opposite side. Forged with some small 'cold shuts'.

Comments and a translation would, again be, much appreciated, thank you

Kind Regards David

[Atlantia]

I am literally sick with envy ;)

[katana]

I am literally sick with envy ;)

Mate, you'll be projectile vomiting when you find out the story behind these ....PM on the way ;)

All the best
David

[Gavin Nugent]

Mate, you'll be projectile vomiting when you find out the story behind these ....PM on the way ;)

All the best
David

Please make me sick too.

Gav

[Atlantia]

Mate, you'll be projectile vomiting when you find out the story behind these ....PM on the way ;)

All the best
David


LOL!!!!!

I see what you mean.
You've seen the date on the blade of this one I guess?
1315 would be 1897/8.

[katana]

LOL!!!!!

I see what you mean.
You've seen the date on the blade of this one I guess?
1315 would be 1897/8.


Thanks Gene :) ,
still haven't worked out what material the hilt slabs are ? I know a number of Jambiya / Khanjar hilts have resin handles that simulated Rhino.....so perhaps this is the same idea.

I'm hoping Dom or Alnakkas will help with the translation, on this and Shamshir no.2 :)

Best
David

[Lew]

Well the 1897 date and the bakelite type hilt are consistent I had a French saber from the same period with a resin/Bakelite hilt.

[katana]

Thanks Lew :) ,
bakerlite was, in its day, considered a wonderful material ....a forerunner of todays plastic's technology. Interesting that other cultures liked the material.

Kind Regards David

[Dom]

I'm hoping Dom or Alnakkas will help with the translation, on this and Shamshir no.2 :) Hi Dav
the cartouche;
- AMAL HASSAN ??? either MADE BY HASSAN, for the upper line we have a problem,
by extrapolation, due to some erase, we should read "HOM" what is non sense, coze the translation could be;
- MADE BY THE MOTHER OF HASSAN ... :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:
very hard to imagine a woman blacksmith, in Muslim country :p

very sorry for "Atlantia", but despite his efforts to translate the date,
we guess that it's 1310 (or 1892 Gregorian) and not 1315
I agree that it's look like a circle, but really too small to be read by Arab natives, as digit 5 :shrug:
SULTAN BIRATI ... the name it's not Arab, could be Perse, or even Indian ...
"Birati" it's a locality in the city of Kolkata (formerly known as Calcuttā) West Bengal, India

all the best

à +

Dom

[A.alnakkas]

Hello guys, beautiful shamshir David! Congrats. As for the material of the hilt, such type of material such as bakelite was probably liked back then. They are still used but for prayer beads, one of mine which I use for formal dressing is infact a bakelite (called bokolite/sandaloos here)

Sheikh Dom got the date and name correctly, but the cartouche says "amal Assad Allah" which ofcourse means: Work of Assad Allah

[kahnjar1]

If you want to check if the hilt IS Bakelite, run it under hot water and it will give off a noticable smell characteristic of all Bakelite.

[Dom]

...snip.. bakelite ...snip... They are still used but for prayer beads, one of mine which I use for formal dressing is infact a bakelite (called bokolite/sandaloos here)correct, those material for prayer beads it's know under the name of
- karaman (Turkish city, where it's come from this type of "false amber")
- faturan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faturan)

most of the time, some pics are better than a long speech, to understand
- the 1st picture, is real amber
- the 2nd, it's "kahaman" mixture of resin and amber powder
- the 3rd, it's "faturan" .. synthetic resins, let said "Bakelite"

they are part of my collection (an other) of "subha" ;)

à +

Dom

ps/ those Islamic chaplet are from last century ±*150 years

[A.alnakkas]

Awesome prayer beads sheikh Dom! I generally use bakelite prayer bead because they look great and cheap (depend on cut style) but in my heart i always like kahrab prayer beads and I keep mine for serious meeting (when its needed to look fancy:p)

[katana]

Hi Dom,
thank you very much for the translation :cool: I believe that the sword came from the Iraq /Iran area, I will try and see if Sultan Birati has any association with this region. If not, you've been very helpful with the India connection :cool:

Hi Alnakkas and Stu,
thank you very much for the added information, especially about bakelite, very interesting and helpful

Kindest Regards
David

[tom hyle]

Note how the grips go into the guard and under the lagnets, unlike with shamshir #2
Note how the guard is assembled by hammer welds.
What is the feature that in the sixth photo looks like a modern weld spot at the juncture of guard and handle at the front edge?

[katana]

Note how the grips go into the guard and under the lagnets, unlike with shamshir #2
Note how the guard is assembled by hammer welds.
What is the feature that in the sixth photo looks like a modern weld spot at the juncture of guard and handle at the front edge?


Hi Hawkeye ;) ,
yes seems to be a 'modern spot weld' but why its there ???
it serves no function :shrug:

Kind Regards David

[tom hyle]

Is there a tang band? (an applied strip of metal affixed perpendicular to the edge of the tang to yeild an "I beam" type construction) I think it may tack down the end of the tang band. Very risky for the strength of the blade, welding without retempering. :eek: