Big score! (or how I blew a months wages...) :(

[Atlantia]

Ha too slow, so...
I'm going to tease you with them one at a time ;)

Here is an interesting thing.
It's from an old collection and was labeled 'Double Kembar/ Golok' from the original collectors notes.

Some of the mounts are aluminium, so it's 20thC.

Blades apear to have lamination flaws and are very well shaped, good and solid with a definate 'oriental' feel to them, not thin and crappy tourist blades made from 'whatever' reclaimed metal.
I know how double weapons interest you chaps and I've not seen one of these before.
Any information appreciated.
Anyone?

[kino]

Whoa!
What a tease! Nice score!
Post some photos of that Kris. Congrats.

[Gustav]

This is interesting. Double weapons are of course bound to chinese fighting systems. Donn F. Draeger in his book "The weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia" describes a fighting system called Kuntao. After a quick lecture I have an impression, Kuntao can be found in places in Indonesia with an intact chinese community, which probably means ewerywhere; Sumatra, Java, Madura, Sulawesi (Makassar) are mentioned. On page 207, there a sinistre looking guy with two similar choppers is depicted (illustrating Kuntao in Makassar), yet they are called Parang (probably the Parang Upacara mentioned in Zonneveld, the source beeing Draeger :D )

These could be Javanese, they are very popular in Sunda.

[Atlantia]

This is interesting. Double weapons are of course bound to chinese fighting systems. Donn F. Draeger in his book "The weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia" describes a fighting system called Kuntao. After a quick lecture I have an impression, Kuntao can be found in places in Indonesia with an intact chinese community, which probably means ewerywhere; Sumatra, Java, Madura, Sulawesi (Makassar) are mentioned. On page 207, there a sinistre looking guy with two similar choppers is depicted (illustrating Kuntao in Makassar), yet they are called Parang (probably the Parang Upacara mentioned in Zonneveld, the source beeing Draeger :D )

These could be Javanese, they are very popular in Sunda.

Ah! Thanks Gustav,

Would clearer pictures be any help?
Thanks Gene

[Atlantia]

Whoa!
What a tease! Nice score!
Post some photos of that Kris. Congrats.

Hi Kino,

Will do :)
It's not a posh one though, so don't have your expectations too high.

Best
Gene

[Maurice]

Hi Gene,

These double Javanese goloks are also still made today, not for tourists, but mostly for silat practitioners.
I think this combination is also one of those pieces.
But they're made deadly sharp most of the time, and ready for use, though not antique....
I could be wrong, but I've seen these kinds several times come by here, used in Silat classes for practice....

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

Nice score with the golok, Gene! To be strictly correct, it is a Golok Ganda (double), as opposed to a Golok Kembar (twin). Thus, I would call it a Golok Djanoer Ganda.
At a glance, it looks like a recently-made one from H. Aas of Tjibatoe.

Best,

[Atlantia]

Hi Gene,

These double Javanese goloks are also still made today, not for tourists, but mostly for silat practitioners.
I think this combination is also one of those pieces.
But they're made deadly sharp most of the time, and ready for use, though not antique....
I could be wrong, but I've seen these kinds several times come by here, used in Silat classes for practice....

Kind Regards,
Maurice


Hi Maurice,

Thanks for the info.
I agree it's not antique. Aluminium where you'd hope for silver :(
But some signs of age, oxidisation of brass and shrinkage of the wood slightly.
Allegedly the collection it came from stopped 'growing' some time ago, so hopefully at least vintage :shrug:
These double weapons are interesting aren't they?

Best
Gene

[Maurice]

Hi Maurice,

Thanks for the info.
I agree it's not antique. Aluminium where you'd hope for silver :(
But some signs of age, oxidisation of brass and shrinkage of the wood slightly.
Allegedly the collection it came from stopped 'growing' some time ago, so hopefully at least vintage :shrug:
These double weapons are interesting aren't they?

Best
Gene
Hi Gene,

Are it signs of age or signs of use? ;-)

I myself like these double blades in one scabbard a lot, as a martial art practitioner... (though not as explosive and fanatical I used to be one time in my better days).

Best wishes,
Maurice

[Atlantia]

Hi Gene,

Are it signs of age or signs of use? ;-)

I myself like these double blades in one scabbard a lot, as a martial art practitioner... (though not as explosive and fanatical I used to be one time in my better days).

Best wishes,
Maurice

Hi Maurice,

I'd say that it's some signs of age, not use. No edge knicks.
I could be wrong though, it has happened before ;)

I'd like to see you swinging these about Maurice! They are well made things, feel fast and dangerous, I bet they'd lend themselves to a great display!

Best
Gene

[Atlantia]

Hullo everybody,

Nice score with the golok, Gene! To be strictly correct, it is a Golok Ganda (double), as opposed to a Golok Kembar (twin). Thus, I would call it a Golok Djanoer Ganda.
At a glance, it looks like a recently-made one from H. Aas of Tjibatoe.

Best,

Thats interesting, are they all recent? As I say, these 'seem' to have some age, and are supposed to have....
Are they all recent?

Best
gene

[Henk]

Gene,

Very nice. A double golok from West Java. As said still made until today.
My teacher brought an almost identical one for me, special made on the length of my arm to use it in the right way. As mentioned for practising Pencak Silat. Take a look here and watch the whole film. Especially the second part is very nice to see the teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0smgbJsBd0A
This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0DDdTd-i0 shows you the golok laying on the ground. At the end of the film you see the emblem with the golok in it.

[Atlantia]

Gene,

Very nice. A double golok from West Java. As said still made until today.
My teacher brought an almost identical one for me, special made on the length of my arm to use it in the right way. As mentioned for practising Pencak Silat. Take a look here and watch the whole film. Especially the second part is very nice to see the teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0smgbJsBd0A
This one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0DDdTd-i0 shows you the golok laying on the ground. At the end of the film you see the emblem with the golok in it.


Excellent, thanks Henk.
The young lad in yellow at the beginning of the second film is amazing! I'd never have had such dedication at such a young age.
I see what you mean about the Goloks.
My pair were allegedly collected prior to the early 50s, do you think thats possible?

Have you seen this girl with twing Goloks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaLYXZ4wAZY

Thanks
Gene

[Gavin Nugent]

Ha too slow, so...
I'm going to tease you with them one at a time ;)

Here is an interesting thing.
It's from an old collection and was labeled 'Double Kembar/ Golok' from the original collectors notes.

Some of the mounts are aluminium, so it's 20thC.

Blades apear to have lamination flaws and are very well shaped, good and solid with a definate 'oriental' feel to them, not thin and crappy tourist blades made from 'whatever' reclaimed metal.
I know how double weapons interest you chaps and I've not seen one of these before.
Any information appreciated.
Anyone?

Haha, I saw the group image whilst it was up....keep em coming!!!

Gav

[Maurice]

Haha, I saw the group image whilst it was up....keep em coming!!!

Gav
Me too....waiting for the balato.... ;-)

[Atlantia]

Me too....waiting for the balato.... ;-)

Really? Whats' a Balato?

Edit; Oh right, thats what that is!!! ;)
Coming up in the next hour :D

[Henk]

Gene,

Yes, i've seen the girl. If you look for, golok pang lipur, you will find more.

Early 50s is very good possible for your pair. Is your scabbard made of buffalo horn as well? or is it wood? The dress of my goloks is completely made from buffalo horn.

[Atlantia]

Gene,

Yes, i've seen the girl. If you look for, golok pang lipur, you will find more.

Early 50s is very good possible for your pair. Is your scabbard made of buffalo horn as well? or is it wood? The dress of my goloks is completely made from buffalo horn.

Hi Henk,

Wow! your's have a horn scabbard?
Mine it's just wood (a little shrunk) with brass bands and buffalo horn throat.
The hilts are horn with aluminium fittings. Couple of very minor age splits, as buffalo horn alwats seems to get.
When I get a chance I'll mix up a little buffalo horn dust and glue to fill them.

Would it be possible to see yours?

Best
Gene

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Gene,
Did I see a Facon or similar amongst your treasure trove?
Regards,
Norman.

[Atlantia]

Hi Gene,
Did I see a Facon or similar amongst your treasure trove?
Regards,
Norman.

Well......
Funny thing there. Not sure what I'm going to do with that. It wasn't supposed to be a facon.... hold on. I'll start a thread!

[Henk]

Sure Gene,

No problem. First i have to install software for my camera on my PC before i can do that. I have to find some time for that first.
But remember, mine is very recent.

[Amuk Murugul]

Thats interesting, are they all recent? As I say, these 'seem' to have some age, and are supposed to have....
Are they all recent?

Best
gene
Hi Gene,
Sorry for being too vague. By 'recent', I meant within my lifetime:). In this case, I would say, around the 3rd-quarter of the 20thC. I'd even stretch my neck out and lean more towards the final quarter. Aas is younger than me and he still produces that type of handle.

Best,

[Atlantia]

Hi Gene,
Sorry for being too vague. By 'recent', I meant within my lifetime:). In this case, I would say, around the 3rd-quarter of the 20thC. I'd even stretch my neck out and lean more towards the final quarter. Aas is younger than me and he still produces that type of handle.

Best,


LOL, I prefered vague to 3rd/4th quarter 20thC! ;)
As I said my pair were allegedly collected around 60 years ago, do you think that's impossible?

Best
Gene

[Amuk Murugul]

LOL, I prefered vague to 3rd/4th quarter 20thC! ;)
As I said my pair were allegedly collected around 60 years ago, do you think that's impossible?

Best
Gene
Hullo Gene (moan...):)

I've just had a second look....
OF COURSE it's possible...
It's difficult to be definite because some things change more slowly than others.
Analyzing it logically:
Aluminium wasn't available for general use until 1930s.
Early general use was from scrap metal.
In indo Al wasn't popular until the 1950s.
Here is where I may be wrong:
Three-pinned scales were generally used until the early 1970s, when it was replaced by two-pinned scales.
But, I have never seen that style of handle before H. Aas made them.

Three salient points:
Unusual for TWO hanging rings on the collar and no belt-clasp.
Unusual to cap the pommel.
Unusual crimping(?) pattern on panel above collar.

Conclusion:
It may have been made by his predecessor.
It may have been a custom order.

Best,

[Atlantia]

Hullo Gene (moan...):)

I've just had a second look....
OF COURSE it's possible...
It's difficult to be definite because some things change more slowly than than others.
Analyzing it logically:
Aluminium wasn't available for general use until 1930s.
Early general use was from scrap metal.
In indo Al wasn't popular until the 1950s.
Here is where I may be wrong:
Three-pinned scales were generally used until the early 1970s, when it was replaced by two-pinned scales.
But, I have never seen that style of handle before H. Aas made them.

Three salient points:
Unusual for TWO hanging rings on the collar and no belt-clasp.
Unusual to cap the pommel.
Unusual crimping(?) pattern on panel above collar.

Conclusion:
It may have been made by his predecessor.
It may have been a custom order.

Best,


Thank you my friend,
Please know that I am hugely greatful for your continued help in these matters and your excellent (rather English I might say) humour too ;)

Best
Gene

P.S.
I'll leave you in peace now (for a while ;))

[Amuk Murugul]

Thank you my friend,
Please know that I am hugely greatful for your continued help in these matters and your excellent (rather English I might say) humour too ;)

Best
Gene

P.S.
I'll leave you in peace now (for a while ;))
Hullo Gene,

NP :).....
I miss the Clovelly cobblestones and the Red Lions.
Just PLEASE do me a favour:
Don't feed vegetable Cornish pasties as the only fare for lunch (to foreigners) DAILY ... until they develop an aversion to it.;)

Best,

[DaveA]

Thanks for posting. I too find double weapons very interesting. Here is my "twin golok" for comparison and your comment. Each knife fits side-by-side into its own compartment in a single scabbard. The pattern-welded blades measure 15 3/4 inches long by 1 1/4 inch wide and are very sharp. The ricasso is narrow in width and the blades thicken towards the tip. Each knife measures a total of 22 inches including the hilt. On the side of each blade are struck markings showing what I've been told is the name of the village of provenance. The hilts are made of ironwood. The scabbard is also made of ironwood, with brass decoration and appliances and a mahogany-like wood along the top and bottom line of the scabbard as well as near the opening. :D

[Amuk Murugul]

Thanks for posting. I too find double weapons very interesting. Here is my "twin golok" for comparison and your comment. Each knife fits side-by-side into its own compartment in a single scabbard. The pattern-welded blades measure 15 3/4 inches long by 1 1/4 inch wide and are very sharp. The ricasso is narrow in width and the blades thicken towards the tip. Each knife measures a total of 22 inches including the hilt. On the side of each blade are struck markings showing what I've been told is the name of the village of provenance. The hilts are made of ironwood. The scabbard is also made of ironwood, with brass decoration and appliances and a mahogany-like wood along the top and bottom line of the scabbard as well as near the opening. :D
Hullo DaveA,

Golok Djanoer Ganda Perah Tjeker Oentjal, or simply Golok Ganda.
Made after about 1974 by H. Aas of Tjibatoe, Soekabumi. Model/Style is still current.

Best,

[Henk]

Gene,

As promised. Rather identical to the golok of DaveA and probably made by the same makers of these goloks. Mine was made two and a half year ago.

[Atlantia]

Hullo Gene,

NP :).....
I miss the Clovelly cobblestones and the Red Lions.
Just PLEASE do me a favour:
Don't feed vegetable Cornish pasties as the only fare for lunch (to foreigners) DAILY ... until they develop an aversion to it.;)

Best,


LOL, were you in Blighty then?

Hmmm, vegetable pasties!
A favourite of vegetarians like me. :)
So I'll save them all for myself.
Best
Gene

[Atlantia]

Thanks for posting. I too find double weapons very interesting. Here is my "twin golok" for comparison and your comment. Each knife fits side-by-side into its own compartment in a single scabbard. The pattern-welded blades measure 15 3/4 inches long by 1 1/4 inch wide and are very sharp. The ricasso is narrow in width and the blades thicken towards the tip. Each knife measures a total of 22 inches including the hilt. On the side of each blade are struck markings showing what I've been told is the name of the village of provenance. The hilts are made of ironwood. The scabbard is also made of ironwood, with brass decoration and appliances and a mahogany-like wood along the top and bottom line of the scabbard as well as near the opening. :D


Thats a very fine set.
I like that they are two distinct Goloks within one scabbard!
The quality looks excellent and they are big as well!
Wow!
Mine are only 18" overall.

Congrats
Gene

[Atlantia]

Gene,

As promised. Rather identical to the golok of DaveA and probably made by the same makers of these goloks. Mine was made two and a half year ago.


Beautiful Henk!
Fantastic quality again. Whats the overall length?
I'm amazed that the scabbard is also horn. What work!!
Lovely mate, thansk for sharing.
Best
gene

[ThePepperSkull]

There is an online silat supplies store based in France that, on occasion, sells double goloks similar to this. I forget what the site is called but they do have plenty of pictures with double goloks similar to this.

I do enjoy modern Indonesian blades. For the most part they still make them with thick spines which I like. Until recently sold, I had a large golok with a 20-inch blade that was about 6.5-7mm thick at the base.

While I collect mostly Philippine blades focusing on modern-made pieces (With exception to old Pira and the odd kris here and there), I must admit that the modern blade market there is flooded with whippy, wafer thin blades that would not be safe to swing, let alone cut with. Regarding Philippine blades, there are still wonderful and incredibly functional blades, but you really have to careful about where and who you buy from and really do your research or else you end up with sheet metal that, I reiterate, is either too whippy or too brittle to be safely used.

With Indonesian blades of modern make, the quality of the average golok is much much better. I have never been dissatisfied with a modern indonesian-made blade as of yet.

This double golok is a good find in my opinion. :D

[DaveA]

....., I must admit that the modern blade market there is flooded with whippy, wafer thin blades that would not be safe to swing, let alone cut with.

I concur. It is sometimes very hard to tell just from internet pictures so buying from someone you trust is important. I bought mine from another collector who was liquidating her collection. A few others I bought (years ago, when I was less wise I think) were examples your whimpy wafer thin blades. Disappointed I was, but learn I did!

[Amuk Murugul]

..... were examples your whimpy wafer thin blades. Disappointed I was, but learn I did!
FYI ..... There is an area in Banten which is renowned for making thin goloks, even thin enough to wear round the waist. I have handled one such, belonging to the head-smith. It was about the thickness of a saw-blade, housed in a thick leather 'belt' with the handle doubling as a buckle. The golok was very old and had good patina. When I first saw it, I was reminded of stories I'd heard about early Chinese.
Although the locals refer to it as 'golok', I would call it a sword.

Best,

[Henk]

Beautiful Henk!
Fantastic quality again. Whats the overall length?
I'm amazed that the scabbard is also horn. What work!!
Lovely mate, thansk for sharing.
Best
gene

Yes, i'm very happy with this pair. The overall length is 57 cm or 22,5 inch.
As mentioned these goloks were made for me personally, ordered by my teacher when he was on Java to practice Pang Lipur in the school of his master. To train with these goloks the right length is important.