A Kampilan blade - from where?

[KuKulzA28]

So I saw this blade for about $5 (in USD) I think...
and I recognized the shape immediately! And of course, I bought it.

It's a relatively unremarkable blade, not very thick, long, has that characteristic spike, lines on the tang, and an interesting golden dot near the base. But despite it's plain-ness, I still wonder and have questions...
Could the dot be a brass or bronze insert? What is it for? The lines on the tang - why? The small bumps on the spike, what do they mean? Where do you guys think this kampilan blade is from? Mindanao? Timor? Sulawesi? How old? Before WW2? Post-WW2? A couple years ago? :shrug:

Here's some pictures, hope to take better ones tomorrow...

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/300/98167077.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7560/80975822.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1567/62597460.jpg

[Battara]

Well, might take a guess at WW2 blade or slightly earlier, but not sure.

The lines in the tang are to give the pitch inside the hilt something to grab onto.

And the brass/bronze dot? - some say it would mean how many that blade has killed, but I question this - not much evidence one way or the other.

Notches in the spike? In this case, no idea.

[KuKulzA28]

Thanks for the reply Battara!

The brass dots... aren't those also found on Borneo blades sometimes, such as Mandau/Parang Ilang?


I've always wondered what the spike meant, and the variations in the spikes too...

[Battara]

Yes brass dots have been found on those too.

I think a lot of that information has been lost over time.

[KuKulzA28]

Ah well, time to attempt to make a handle for this blade! :eek:

Hope this goes well! :D

[Battara]

Mabuting Kapilaran, Viel Gluck, Buenos Suerte, and Good Luck! :D

[tom hyle]

Markedly similar to one that was recently on ebay; I might can get an auction # Both the lack of a rear "shoulder" to the tang and the intentional ruffing of its surface make me think of Borneo for some reason. The mushroom-cap-like swelling to the spikelet was there, too...

[tom hyle]

Wow; I looked and looked; it could almost be the same blade, but the ebay one is curved, and came with a neat wood sword/club, too! :D #320659950776

[migueldiaz]

And the brass/bronze dot? - some say it would mean how many that blade has killed, but I question this - not much evidence one way or the other.Earlier, Nonoy Tan introduced me to a Filipino anthropology professor, who is from the Visayas, but is now teaching at a Mindanao state university (Univ. of the Phils.). According to the professor, bronze (being one of the earliest metals concocted by man) is regarded in the local folklore (amongst the Lumad people, e.g., Manobo, Bagobo, Mandaya, T'boli, etc.) as a deterrent against bad spirits.

Thus local swords (and other objects) can be found to have some bronze item in them (e.g., bronze inlays in the blade). He said that that may also explain why some Moro kampilans would have bronze inlays on the blade. He added that before they became Moros (Muslims), these people used to be mostly Manobos (i.e., one branch of the Lumad peoples).

I guess the professor is talking about certain Moros in mainland Mindanao.

In any case, his main point is that it is not a surprise at all to find bronze inlays in swords and other objects, owing to the said local religious belief.

[migueldiaz]

Vinny, we can't see the pics :) Can you please repost them? Thanks.

[Spunjer]

I remember as a kid, i was told those old singko sentimos (the big ones), were good deterrents for evil spirits. No wonder, since it was made out of copper or brass

[migueldiaz]

I remember as a kid, i was told those old singko sentimos (the big ones), were good deterrents for evil spirits. No wonder, since it was made out of copper or brassinteresting, thanks!

i also recently learned from anthropology professors here in the country of one related folk belief. that is, if a baby can't get to sleep at night and cries a lot, the traditional belief is that one should place a knife or scissors (or any other metal) underneath the duyan (cradle) of the baby.

i guess the thinking there is that perhaps the baby is getting bothered by bad spirits. and the metal is supposed to ward away those pesky spirits.

so i told the professors that that explains why i sleep so soundly at night. and that's because i have plenty of them blades even under my bed! :D

[kronckew]

i have a newish 'villager' dyak parang that has a pair of brass dots, tho they're nearer the pointy end. i seem to recall being told that the smiths would drill a hole thru there to show the customer it was steel all the way thru, then they'd peen a brass piece flat in it to fill it up. there is a similar hole in the krewit near the grip where you can see the brass slug was not initially round as it's not completely filling the hole on one side. i suspect they are just a traditional decoration like copper & brass inlays on my flyssa, dhas, etc...

[tom hyle]

sometimes the dots are silver. :eek:

[KuKulzA28]

Thanks for the insights on the copper/brass dots!

Mabuting Kapilaran, Viel Gluck, Buenos Suerte, and Good Luck! :D
Salamat, Vielen dank, Gracias, and Thank you! ;)

Wow; I looked and looked; it could almost be the same blade, but the ebay one is curved, and came with a neat wood sword/club, too! :D #320659950776

Actually it IS the same blade... and yes the wood club that looks like a nifo/oti is in my closet currently. I don't know why the kampilan in the ebay photo looks curved. In any case, my memory must be bad because the combined price of this was $35 with shipping, not $5...

:shrug: Whatever, I wanted it, and now I have it.... :D

Both the lack of a rear "shoulder" to the tang and the intentional ruffing of its surface make me think of Borneo for some reason
Really? so what do Borneo kampilans look like? Any pictures? I hope to make the fittings as historically accurate as possible...

[Battara]

According to the professor, bronze (being one of the earliest metals concocted by man) is regarded in the local folklore (amongst the Lumad people, e.g., Manobo, Bagobo, Mandaya, T'boli, etc.) as a deterrent against bad spirits.

Thus local swords (and other objects) can be found to have some bronze item in them (e.g., bronze inlays in the blade). He said that that may also explain why some Moro kampilans would have bronze inlays on the blade. He added that before they became Moros (Muslims), these people used to be mostly Manobos (i.e., one branch of the Lumad peoples).

In any case, his main point is that it is not a surprise at all to find bronze inlays in swords and other objects, owing to the said local religious belief.
Maraming Salamat! That explains a lot. Very helpful. I wonder if this is part of the reason that the T'boli use cast bronze/brass little bells to ward off evil spirits on there weapons and in clothing (and make cast hilts out of the same materials).

[KuKulzA28]

My progress so far:

Here's the blade is better lighting... took some measurements...
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4539/52034478.jpg

Make rough sketches of the handle on wood...
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/8638/55109445.jpg

Saw, chisel, hatchet, and hammer: rough shape of hilt...
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6308/35433630.jpg

but I broke the guard when I chiseled too aggressively...


In any case this is poplar wood, so not extremely strong nor suitable for the kampilan I think, but good practice for me anyhow... What would the "appropriate" wood be? Kamagong? Amboyna? Ebony?

Those harder woods are probably expensive and even harder to carve... :(

Thoughts?

[VANDOO]

THE INFORMATION I HAVE ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PHILIPPINE MORO AND BORNEO KAMPILIANS POINTS TO THOSE FROM BORNEO HAVING SHORTER JAWS. SEE TWO EXAMPLES. PHILIPPINE MAHOGANY WOULD BE A GOOD WOOD AS IT DOESN'T SPLIT WHEN WET SO WOULD FARE WELL IN A SALTWATER ENVIRONMENT.

[migueldiaz]

Maraming Salamat! That explains a lot. Very helpful. I wonder if this is part of the reason that the T'boli use cast bronze/brass little bells to ward off evil spirits on there weapons and in clothing (and make cast hilts out of the same materials).Jose, according to the professor we interviewed, yes indeed.

Here's a quote from another source (http://litera1no4.tripod.com/tboli_frame.html), where the use of brass/bronze is more to appease the spirits, rather than to ward them off:

The Tboli [a non-Muslim, non-Christian people of Mindanao in southern Phils.] also believe in busao (malevolent spirits) which wreak havoc on the lives of human beings, thus causing misfortune and illness. Desu or propitiatory offering of onuk bukay (white chicken) or sedu (pig) are made to placate or gain favors from these evil spirits. Tboli rites are normally presided over by a morally upright elder who is proficient in Tboli tradition. Often enough, the datu themselves preside.

To the Tboli, all objects house a spirit. They continually strive to gain the good graces of these spirits by offering them little gifts. Before crossing a river, for example, they may throw a ring [often made of brass]. If spirits or gods need to be appeased, the Tboli make desu or offerings, which may consist of cooked food, the agong [brass/bronze gong], and the kafilan (sword).
But I guess it's two sides of the same coin - the thing that is feared is also oftentimes the thing craved for.

[tom hyle]

yeah, a pretty strong curve in the ebay photos, huh? odd :o vandoo vandoo vandoo! nice!

[migueldiaz]

THE INFORMATION I HAVE ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PHILIPPINE MORO AND BORNEO KAMPILIANS POINTS TO THOSE FROM BORNEO HAVING SHORTER JAWS. SEE TWO EXAMPLES. PHILIPPINE MAHOGANY WOULD BE A GOOD WOOD AS IT DOESN'T SPLIT WHEN WET SO WOULD FARE WELL IN A SALTWATER ENVIRONMENT.Vandoo, thanks for the pics! I'm not familiar with Bornean weapons. But as for Ilanun/Iranun kampilans, one of the documented Ilanun kampilan hilt forms is per images below. We can see that it is also short-jawed.

This kampilan sketch, captioned as "Kampilan Illanoon", appeared in Edward Belcher's Narrative of the voyage of HMS Samarang (1848) (http://www.archive.org/details/narrativeofvoyag01belciala). I've earlier blogged about the topic here (http://www.filhistory.com/2009/09/iranun-ilanun-kampilan-sword-moro-filipino-philippine-weapon-hairy.html) and here (http://www.filhistory.com/2009/09/iranun-ilanun-kampilan-panabas-moro-filipino-swords-weapons.html). Thanks.

[Battara]

My progress so far:
but I broke the guard when I chiseled too aggressively...


In any case this is poplar wood, so not extremely strong nor suitable for the kampilan I think, but good practice for me anyhow... What would the "appropriate" wood be? Kamagong? Amboyna? Ebony?

Those harder woods are probably expensive and even harder to carve... :(

Thoughts?
Yes. I would use either mahogany as Barry suggested, or walnut, or padauk wood (a cousin to the narra tree in the Philippines and Indonesia and identical to the inner part of that tree). All of these are harder woods. I use these all the time and am carving some scabbards now out of walnut and padauk wood. Here is a link to info on padauk wood:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterocarpus

Macassar ebony is kamagong, but to get a completely dark piece is difficult, expensive, and even harder than all the rest. I would suggest walnut or padauk - neither are endangered (padauk in the US is from Africa, narra from Southeast Asia is endangered at present).

[KuKulzA28]

Sounds good, time for me to go shopping for pieces of padauk... :D

In the meantime, continuing practice on the poplar wood "dummy" handle...

[Nirghosa]

Surprisingly I have a personal kampilan trainer I am making the handle from Padauk as well. It can be a little challenging but near as difficult as some other hardwoods.
Be sure to use a respirator or at least a dust mask. I've been told the Padauk dust is very carcinogenic.
It take a glorious color with just a simple poly seal.

http://s795.photobucket.com/albums/yy233/navadisha/trainers/?action=view&current=DSC04818.jpg

[Battara]

Surprisingly I have a personal kampilan trainer I am making the handle from Padauk as well. It can be a little challenging but near as difficult as some other hardwoods.
Be sure to use a respirator or at least a dust mask. I've been told the Padauk dust is very carcinogenic.
It take a glorious color with just a simple poly seal.

http://s795.photobucket.com/albums/yy233/navadisha/trainers/?action=view&current=DSC04818.jpg
Very true - it can puncture the avioli of the lungs so DON'T BREATH THE PADAUK DUST! :eek:

And yes a little difficult to carve, but much easier than kamagong (macassar ebony) or ebony.

[KuKulzA28]

It take a glorious color with just a simple poly seal.

http://s795.photobucket.com/albums/yy233/navadisha/trainers/?action=view&current=DSC04818.jpg
That does look nice, good work!

Very true - it can puncture the avioli of the lungs so DON'T BREATH THE PADAUK DUST! :eek:
I will remember than advice! :eek: :) Sounds like cocobolo
I assume the same precautions as cocobolo... face-mask, ventilation, etc.

[Nirghosa]

That does look nice, good work!



Thanks!!

I will remember than advice! :eek: :) Sounds like cocobolo
I assume the same precautions as cocobolo... face-mask, ventilation, etc.
Personally, to me cocobolo is a little heavier and could throw off the balance but perhaps if you could get identical pieces you would be able to judge yourself. Sometimes the woods speak to you. I would often go to the local shop and pick up differing pieces to get a feel. Could sometimes take way too long :D
In general the denser the wood, the heavier it is of course
When doing my personal aluminum trainers I prefer to get the balance just right.
Purpleheart is nice as is Narra.
Dark Walnut has a nice balance of weight, density and yet is workable. :p
http://s795.photobucket.com/albums/yy233/navadisha/trainers/?action=view&current=DSC06778.jpg

[Battara]

I use padauk because it looks like the inner part of the narra tree (again a part of the narra tree family) and walnut because it looks like the outer part of the narra tree.

[Nirghosa]

I use padauk because it looks like the inner part of the narra tree (again a part of the narra tree family) and walnut because it looks like the outer part of the narra tree.

Interesting, hadn't looked at it that way.
Do you use a stain on the Padauk (to affect the color) or just a seal?

[Battara]

Most of the time I just use a seal. However, I have stained it with walnut before, which looks like the area between the inner and outer parts of the narra tree, or a truly aged piece of inner narra wood.

[tom hyle]

Can we get a report on cross-section, thickness (especially at tip), and edge geometry on the mystery blade, BTW; I was gonna bid but had to buy a phone charger instead (despite mine being brand new;" /untranslated chinese/ high-tech alliance crap!") but frankly felt that the gamble factor was is it from Irian Jaya? :o ;) :confused: I didn't want to spoil the mood for you, and since you have it in hand, I take it you'd have mentioned if it were egregiously unweaponly?

[Nirghosa]

Most of the time I just use a seal. However, I have stained it with walnut before, which looks like the area between the inner and outer parts of the narra tree, or a truly aged piece of inner narra wood.

Very useful insight, thanks! :)
I've mostly made my handles in a representative style (since they're just my trainers anyway). But as I've begun to get more competent with the solid handles(vs slabs) I've wanted to make them more accurate.

[harimauhk]

I found this thread when looking for info on the Illanun of Borneo and their kampilans. :) I'll be in Malaysian Borneo later this year and I'm hoping to acquire modern-made blades from a number of tribes there.

As far as brass/bronze being talismanic: even some of the Christians of Southern Luzon believe brass blades offer protection. Some believe a brass dagger will protect against aswang.

[KuKulzA28]

I found this thread when looking for info on the Illanun of Borneo and their kampilans. :) I'll be in Malaysian Borneo later this year and I'm hoping to acquire modern-made blades from a number of tribes there.

Good luck with your mission! I look forward to what you find. :)

[harimauhk]

Thanks Kuk! I only have five days there, so I'm going to focus on the coastal areas of Sabah this time. It's going to be an exciting year. Southern Thailand, Mindanao and West Java are all definites!

[Battara]

I found this thread when looking for info on the Illanun of Borneo and their kampilans. :) I'll be in Malaysian Borneo later this year and I'm hoping to acquire modern-made blades from a number of tribes there.

As far as brass/bronze being talismanic: even some of the Christians of Southern Luzon believe brass blades offer protection. Some believe a brass dagger will protect against aswang.
I think spunger had a Katipunan dagger that had a brass blade. We wondered it it was ceremonial or talismanic.

Bring back what you find.(and bring back lots of presents)

[harimauhk]

I'll see what I can do ;)

[Robert]

As far as brass/bronze being talismanic: even some of the Christians of Southern Luzon believe brass blades offer protection. Some believe a brass dagger will protect against aswang.
Harimauhk,
Here a a few examples of brass and copper bladed daggers that I believe are from Luzon. If the ones with brass blades are meant for protection, are the copper bladed ones meant for a more nefarious purpose as I have heard?

Robert

[ThePepperSkull]

Is there any validity to the metal inlays being able to cause harm to said evil spirits? ('Validity' in terms of intent of purpose in the culture, of course, and not actual ghost-busting :D ). As I was told, it was the case that steel or iron would not harm an evil spirit and would simply go though it, but brass or copper or bronze would harm one as badly as a blade would harm the living.

I'm not sure how valid a statement that was, though. this was information passed onto me anecdotally via a relative and not though any sort of quotable/referencable text. Are there any cultures that beleve these metals inlaid in a blade can not only ward off evil spirits, but actually cause them harm if used in defense?

[harimauhk]

Since brass contains copper, the copper-colored blades may just be brass with more copper than usual.

Pep: Some brass has to be better than none. ;) That's the first I've heard of the blades actually being used to COMBAT spirits. I thought just having them around was enough.