Sulawesi (toraja?) keris

[Marcokeris]

during my last trip to Balì i found this keris

[Henk]

Nice, but i'm afraid made for those who travel for pleasure ;)

[Marcokeris]

last pic

[Battara]

The repousse looks like recent work. I agree that the quality is tourist quality.

[Jean]

I would not say tourist quality but rather common or low quality as this piece seems to have been used, what is the base materials of the metal oversheath?
I attach the picture of a similar used piece in my collection, the base metal is silver.
Best regards
Jean

[Alam Shah]

Looks like a ceremonial piece used for weddings, as part of a traditional wear. :)

[Sajen]

I am with Alam, looks like a wedding kris with some age. :)

[Alam Shah]

.. I attach the picture of a similar used piece in my collection, the base metal is silver.
Best regards
JeanHi Jean,
Your keris blade is of better workmanship, a well-made piece of Sulawesi standard.. However, the base areas where the 'goldish' material is, seems to be 'disturbed' at the greneng, making the flaring area seems a little awkward.. ;)

Shahrial

[Jean]

Hi Jean,
Your keris blade is of better workmanship, a well-made piece of Sulawesi standard.. However, the base areas where the 'goldish' material is, seems to be 'disturbed' at the greneng, making the flaring area seems a little awkward.. ;)

Shahrial

Hello Sharial,
I fully agree that my piece is not an art masterpiece but I think a genuine Toraja kris made by a local smith for wearing during burial and wedding ceremonies especially. The base of my blade is not harmonious and quite similar to Marco's one (ganja iras, thick and roughly carved gandik and kembang kacang), I don't think that there is anything wrong under the gilt silver plate but I will check. I agree that Marco's kris is a genuine piece also but of common quality, I visited the Toraja area 15 years ago and there were absolutely no genuine or even tourist piece for sale so these pieces are quite rare to find.
Best regards
Jean

[Alam Shah]

Hi Jean,

Thanks Jean for your feedback. I'm not saying that it's not genuine, but merely stating what I see from the posted picture.. I agree with your opinion on both keris. Quality do differ. Toraja is capable of producing beautiful workmanship.. it is evident in the bladed weapons from that region, the dua lalan, etc. Coming back to keris, here's a link to another toraja keris, (( link )) (http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/d20336/d2033618x.jpg).. although the picture is not too clear and the blade is not visible.. the toraja form and quality workmanship is evident..

Best regards,
Shahrial

[Jean]

Hi Jean,

Coming back to keris, here's a link to another toraja keris, although the picture is not too clear and the blade is not visible.. the toraja form and quality workmanship is evident..

Best regards,
Shahrial

Hello Shahrial,
Very beautiful kris, obviously not in the same category as mine! But is it Toraja or rather from Makassar/Gowa/ Bima? The picture is not clear but the hilt rather looks to depict Arjuna or Bima than a Toraja ancestor.
Thank you and best regards
Jean

[Marcokeris]

The blade of my keris is , of course, very simple. i suppose the blade was put inside the sarong subsequently because the base of blade is more little of the hole of sarong.
I agree that is a ceremony keris (but not for rich people).
I like a lot the quality of work of the sarong and selut. Also i like the type of glasses used in decoration and i suppose they are old like sarong.
When i bought the keris the blade was very very rusty and dirty then i try to stain it : it was really very difficult because i did't try to separate the blade from the hit.... and when i used water to clean warangan the blade comes, in a very fast way, very dark.
About material sarong i don't know what could be: is metal over a wood core.
IMO tourist keris are completey different

[David]

I visited the Toraja area 15 years ago and there were absolutely no genuine or even tourist piece for sale so these pieces are quite rare to find.

I wonder if this is not because Toraja really has no long standing keris culture to speak of. When did the keris first come to Toraja? It has obviously been incorporated somewhat into their rituals (i believe into their elaborate death ceremonies), but it seems to me that this didn't take place until the 20th century. This particular highland culture of Sulawesi was rather insular before then. Their culture, architecture, symbolism, specific animistic beliefs and rituals, are very unique to the area. Even to this day they are different from the majority of Indonesians as their culture has, for the most part, adopted Protestant Christianity as it's religion, with only a 5% muslim population. Has anyone seen a well provenanced 19th century Torajan keris?
I searched through some photos looking for some Torajan keris culture. It is interesting to note that in the photos below keris are only carried by very specific women in the ceremonies shown. In some of the overview ceremonial images i see no keris present. The keris held by the singular woman is clearly in Javanese dress. I cannot see the dress clearly enough in the image of the two women w/keris to know if there is anything specifically Tojaran about them or if they are Bugis style keris.
Here is a nice overview of the Tojara.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toraja

[David]

Of course i did find this image of a giant statue of a Toraja warrior that stands in Makale. Anyone have an idea when this was made?
Also here is an old image of 3 old warriors with a Dutch Salvation Army official in 1930. Notably missing from their attire is any presence of keris. :shrug:

[Jean]

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=2033618

Please note that the saleroom notice from Christie says that:
"The entry should read: Sulawesi, Bugis, gold keris" so this is not a Toraja kris.

[David]

Please note that the saleroom notice from Christie says that:
"The entry should read: Sulawesi, Bugis, gold keris" so this is not a Toraja kris.
Yes Jean, i did note that and was going to throw it in with my argument, but forgot, so thank you.
So what exactly is a Torajan keris then. What provenance leads us to believe that either yours or Marcos originated in this very specific culture? :shrug:

Edit: Oh, i see what happened there. I posted the wrong link in that place. I had meant to post this Wiki page. :o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toraja
I will also amend that post, thanks, but your remark about this particular keris from Christies still holds true... :)

[Alam Shah]

Hello Shahrial,
Very beautiful kris, obviously not in the same category as mine! But is it Toraja or rather from Makassar/Gowa/ Bima? The picture is not clear but the hilt rather looks to depict Arjuna or Bima than a Toraja ancestor.Hi Jean,
I guess not of the same quality. But what I was getting at is, there are different quality of work. The keris that I've linked, oops! my mistake. :o While trying to get a quick example, linked to a questionable one. :confused: I've watch a documentary about the Torajan some time back, which showed keris, as well. That made me thought that it existed within the culture. Perhaps it is like Northern Nias, where it's an 'imported' culture. For the Torajan, perhaps the influence comes from the south, probably Makassar.

[guwaya]

I am with Alam, looks like a wedding kris with some age. :)


Besides the general question, how a wedding keris in general, independently from the area of its origin, has to look like - what are the criteria that make him to a [B]wedding keris, declared as such from a member of an outside culture without any further background information - particular in the case of this here presented keris from Toradja(?) land with its quality as it is, it would be of greatest interest for me to receive the facts upon which this attribution can be done.

Thanks and as an advise, it is not my aim to offend anyone in any manner, but this question, and more so the answer, is of real interest for me.

guwaya

[guwaya]

Hello Sharial,
I agree that Marco's kris is a genuine piece also but of common quality, I visited the Toraja area 15 years ago and there were absolutely no genuine or even tourist piece for sale so these pieces are quite rare to find.
Best regards
Jean

Sorry Jean,

I traveld in Sulawesi nearby the same time and as well as in Makassar (Ujung Pandang by that time) as well as in Rantepao I saw and became offered a lot of tourist pieces, and grubbing through the shops I would say I saw more tourist pieces (to use this term) than honest ones.

Additionally by that time Sulawesi Artshop in Kuta/Legian Bali already had two shops offering a lot of Sulawesi touris pieces as well as the terrible brass made Bali hilts set with mostly class-stones.

Again, it is not in my interest to offend enybody - but it has to be said as this are my personal experiences.

guwaya

[Alam Shah]

Besides the general question, how a wedding keris in general, independently from the area of its origin, has to look like - what are the criteria that make him to a [B]wedding keris, declared as such from a member of an outside culture without any further background information - particular in the case of this here presented keris from Toradja(?) land with its quality as it is, it would be of greatest interest for me to receive the facts upon which this attribution can be done.

guwayaHi guwaya,

Since you've been to these lands, perhaps you could enlighten us, members of the outside culture.. :confused:

For some information, an interesting book to read-up, "Southeast Asia: A historical encyclopedia, from Angkor Wat to East Timor - vol. 2" edited by Keat Gin Ooi. In page 881-883, reference from Zerner's 1977-1978 fieldworks, it is mentioned that Toraja iron smiths used plugs of metal from old railroad ties and Land Rover shocks and springs. Much earlier irons sources were open pit mines in Seko to the northeast. trade for iron ore and nickelous iron with the Palopo region (a vassal state of the Luwu kingdom) was also important. The Toraja highlanders had extensive trade relationships with the coastal Muslim states, and the prestige of goods from "far off Java" (batik, keris) was also a key part of Toraja political status systems. Seko smiths used forge and pattern welding techniques also employed in creating Javanese keris. Seko forgers' ability to produce decorative nerve patterns on sword blades by forge-welding nickelous iron to iron sponges was greatly admired by Toraja smiths, Zerner reports. Surface patterning was highly valued in Toraja aesthetics, extending even to their regard for dappled water buffalo.

In the 1970s the Toraja forge consists of an open-air fireplace banked on three sides with rock walls. Zerner reports that the smith, the bellow pumper, and the hammerer worked together in a kind of rhymatic dance, and "the air itself tastes of smoke and iron, steam and charcoal". Cool water and citrus juice solutions were used to moderate the red heat of the forged metal, as it is shaped into plow blades, ax heads, rice-cutting tools and ceremonial swords. The latter were loci of power and mnemonics for creation myths.

Zerner terms Toraja iron forging "a generative idiom". Puang Matua, the creator ancestor, "forged the heavens, forged the earth, forged the ancestor of the earth, called Patala Bunga, forged the ancestor of cool water, called Patala Merang, forged the ancestor of fire, called Patala Lamma, forged the ancestor of mankind, called Datu Laukku," in the words of the Mount Sesean tominaa priest Tandi Datu. Human iron smiths take on extraordinary qualities given their heirship to these world creation powers. Tominaa consecrate the implements on ironworking (a new forge, for instance) and, given the crucial role of iron-tipped tools and weapons...

Ancestral swords, forged elsewhere in places like Seko and Palopo, were costly and part of inalienable house treasures. Pong Sirintik from Seko, the mythical master smith, "see the mother of iron" and is regarded with special respect because he controls life's animate forces and forges a tool or weapon from them. This allies him with the 'deata' spirits' control of the land and with (in premodern times) the Toraja aristocrats' ownership of slaves..

.. for more info, do refer to the book.. :shrug:

[guwaya]

Hi guwaya,

Since you've been to these lands, perhaps you could enlighten us, members of the outside culture.. :

.. for more info, do refer to the book.. :shrug:


Hi Alam Shah,

First of all: I am myself from an outside culture so I don't know what I have to enlighten. As such a foreigner I am mostly intereted in receivig an answer to my question dedicated to sajen (and you).

Thank you for your answer with detailed informations, just, it is no answer to my question which was: "what are the criteria that make" the here shown keris to a [B]wedding keris, ...... ."

[David]

Interesting and informative passage Shahrial. Thanks for posting it.
However, i must point out that nowhere does it even suggest that the smiths of Toraja make keris. The one reference to keris is that Seko smiths used forge patterns and techniques like those employed in the making of Javanese keris. So it doesn't even say Seko smiths made keris. It goes on further to say "Cool water and citrus juice solutions were used to moderate the red heat of the forged metal, as it is shaped into plow blades, ax heads, rice-cutting tools and ceremonial swords. The latter were loci of power and mnemonics for creation myths." I do not think that we can assume that "ceremonial swords" mentioned here are keris.
I have little doubt that "tourist" blades can be found in Toraja and are probably made there, and keris may be among them. Tourism is currently what drives their economy. In 1984 it was declared by the Indonesian government the official "second tourist stop after Bali". But my question still stand as to whether or not the keris is really a part of their culture as it is in other parts of Indonesia. We see two women holding keris in these public ceremonies which are specifically put on for tourists, but we don't see any other village member wearing a keris, and strangely (for me anyway), none of the men. One of the women hold a Javanese keris. We see a giant statue of a Torajan warrior with a strangely dressed keris at his waist, but this was obviously built in the latter part of the 20th century, again for the tourists i suspect, and when we look at an old photo from 1930 that actually shows 3 Toraja warriors with their weapons none of them are wearing a keris.
There are some interesting points made in the Wiki article i linked about the effects of tourism on the culture of the Toraja. How certain rituals have been emphasized over others and some lost all together based on the needs of this industry. It mentions how "the image of Torajan society created for the tourists, often by "lower-ranking" guides, has eroded its traditional strict hierarchy". So is our current picture of Torajan life completely accurate?
:shrug:

[Alam Shah]

Interesting and informative passage Shahrial. Thanks for posting it.
However, i must point out that nowhere does it even suggest that the smiths of Toraja make keris. Actually it is quite clear that they don't manufacture keris, in the 1970s anyway and probably post-WWII. :) It's imported from other areas. Sometime back, I did discussed with some Bugis decendents from Makassar regarding Bugis weaponry, mainly swords blades fitted on the 'Dua Lalan' of the Torajan.. it's similar to the Makassarese 'Alamang' (alameng), except for its fittings.. I was informed that the blade was exported from other areas into Toraja and the fittings were customised there.. now it seems clearer.. :D

[Alam Shah]

Hi Alam Shah,

First of all: I am myself from an outside culture so I don't know what I have to enlighten. As such a foreigner I am mostly intereted in receivig an answer to my question dedicated to sajen (and you).

Thank you for your answer with detailed informations, just, it is no answer to my question which was: "what are the criteria that make" the here shown keris to a [B]wedding keris, ...... ."Guwaya,

Since we are outside the culture, then why mention it? :shrug: Where are you from?
I reckon I'm not obliged to answer you, or do I? :rolleyes: Perhaps one of the pointer is emulation.. What does these keris have in common in terms of external look? It may be imported from other region where it is used for ceremonial event, such as wedding in Luwu or other regions.

[David]

Actually it is quite clear that they don't manufacture keris, in the 1970s anyway and probably post-WWII. :) It's imported from other areas. Sometime back, I did discussed with some Bugis decendents from Makassar regarding Bugis weaponry, mainly swords blades fitted on the 'Dua Lalan' of the Torajan.. it's similar to the Makassarese 'Alamang' (alameng), except for its fittings.. I was informed that the blade was exported from other areas into Toraja and the fittings were customised there.. now it seems clearer.. :D
I am confused because the passage that you just quoted seems to imply that smiths are, or at least were making ceremonial sword blades (as well as other cutting implements and tools) in Toraja in the 1970s. :confused:
In the 1970s the Toraja forge consists of an open-air fireplace banked on three sides with rock walls. Zerner reports that the smith, the bellow pumper, and the hammerer worked together in a kind of rhymatic dance, and "the air itself tastes of smoke and iron, steam and charcoal". Cool water and citrus juice solutions were used to moderate the red heat of the forged metal, as it is shaped into plow blades, ax heads, rice-cutting tools and ceremonial swords. The latter were loci of power and mnemonics for creation myths.
Do you believe this dress shown here in Marco's and Jean's examples are a style particular to Toraja or is it borrowed perhaps from neighboring Makassar or some other culture in Sulawesi? Do you think the dress in these examples was actually made in Toraja, or is that imported as well. I must say that from looking at other Torajan art i do not see any of their particular designs and motifs exhibited in these keris.

[guwaya]

I reckon I'm not obliged to answer you, or do I?


Naturally not! - So far, so good! :cool:

[David]

So i've moved on to youtube ( :o ) in search of the Torajan keris and we do in fact see it as part of the present day "traditional" wedding. Again it is interesting to see girls and boys in traditional dress with keris.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up-t9AOn-Mw
You can also see women in a traditional dance with "keris" in their waist bands. I suspect from the look of these that these are not real keris, but merely props. Were they always a part of this traditional dance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkDncLXoRdk&feature=related
At about 8:16 into this video on a Torajan funeral they do show a couple of men in traditional dress holding keris and then also in procession.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5csjrfQV20w
However here is another, perhaps older, video of a funeral where i see no keris present throughout the ceremony.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qtztsEs_WM&feature=related
I would have expected to see some keris in the waistbands of the men singing at the end of the video at least.
I am curious about what this all means in terms of how and when the keris may have been assimilated into the Torajan culture and what it means for them as opposes to, say a Javanese or Balinese man. :shrug:

[David]

Of course, if we closely examine the dress of Marco's keris it becomes obvious that it's design is based on the beautiful gold keris that graces the cover of Mr. van Zonnefeld's Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago.This is an important keris because besides it's beauty it was collected before 1750 in Sulawesi. It was in the possession of Stadholder Willem IV in the mid 18th century and was probably obtained by the VOC during unheavals with Makassar in 1666-1669. Elements and motifs of this dress has lead many to believe that it was actually created in Java. The blade is also distinctively Javanese. Note that Marco's keris has the same depiction of garuda on the sheath and well as a similar mustached (wayang?) figure for the hilt.
Jean's example seems to be patterned after the example that graces the cover of Tammens De Kris Vol. I, a sheath which he describes as 17th century Celebes, a South Sulawesi court piece. Interestingly enough this one also seems to have a Javanese blade. You can see a very similar naga motif on Jean's sheath as on this one.
So what basis do we have to call these examples Torajan?

[Jean]

Yes Jean, i did note that and was going to throw it in with my argument, but forgot, so thank you.
So what exactly is a Torajan keris then. What provenance leads us to believe that either yours or Marcos originated in this very specific culture? :shrug:

Edit: Oh, i see what happened there. I posted the wrong link in that place. I had meant to post this Wiki page. :o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toraja
I will also amend that post, thanks, but your remark about this particular keris from Christies still holds true... :)

Hello David,
Sorry for the late reply, I was travelling today.
I don't know much about Toraja krisses but 2 main issues:
. The kris was present and an important symbol at least within the Toraja noble population until recently, and I know of 2 Torajan people who owned a gold kris pusaka during my stay in Kalimantan in the 1990's, unfortunately I could not see the pieces (one was stolen, and the other kept in a bank safe!).
. To me the genuine Toraja krisses are derived from the old royal krisses from Makassar/ Gowa/Bima like the specimen from Christie's but the craftsmanship is much inferior, the hilt seems to depict a Toraja ancestor rather than an Hindu hero, and the sampir has a similar shape to the Bugis krisses. I attach the picture of a good replica of a royal South Sulawesi kris so you can see the difference with the Toraja kris from Marco and mine.
Best regards
Jean

[Jean]

Hi Jean,
For the Torajan, perhaps the influence comes from the south, probably Makassar.

Hello Shahrial,
Yes for sure the Toraja krisses are strongly influenced by those from Makassar and the Bugis as there were strong ties between them. By the way I remember to have seen one or two Toraja krisses (not fantastic pieces) in a local museum, may be in Rantepao.
Best regards
Jean

[Jean]

Picture of a Toraja noble woman attending a ceremony with her kris.

[David]

I don't know much about Toraja krisses but 2 main issues:
. The kris was present and an important symbol at least within the Toraja noble population until recently, and I know of 2 Torajan people who owned a gold kris pusaka during my stay in Kalimantan in the 1990's, unfortunately I could not see the pieces (one was stolen, and the other kept in a bank safe!).
. To me the genuine Toraja krisses are derived from the old royal krisses from Makassar/ Gowa/Bima like the specimen from Christie's but the craftsmanship is much inferior, the hilt seems to depict a Toraja ancestor rather than an Hindu hero, and the sampir has a similar shape to the Bugis krisses. I attach the picture of a good replica of a royal South Sulawesi kris so you can see the difference with the Toraja kris from Marco and mine.
Perhaps then the keris in Toraja remained in the sphere of noble families only. But still, you say you never actually set eyes on these gold pusaka, so how do you know that they are indigenous Toraja keris and not from some other culture in Sulawesi, Java or elsewhere (Toraja nobles were know to marry nobles from outside their culture on occassion) ? How do you know what quality there were compared to a royal South Sulawesi keris?
Here are the questions i am not hearing answers to:
1. Why don't the 3 Torajan warriors from the 1930 photograph have keris amongst their weapons?
2. Why is it mainly women who seem to me carrying keris in the ceremonies i have shown in both photos and videos when the keris is for the most part a male dominated cultural symbol throughout most of the rest of Indonesia?
3. What evidence do we have that the keris was an important cultural item in Toraja pre, let's say, 1970? 1940? 1909?
4. None of the keris that i can spot in any of the photos or videos seem to be dressed in a similar fashion to either Jean's or Marco's keris. Why?

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[David]

Thanks for the image Jean. Is that off the internet because i missed that one. Much in the same dress mode as yours i would say, so strike my question #4 and change "none" to "most"... :)

[Jean]

Thanks for the image Jean. Is that off the internet because i missed that one. Much in the same dress mode as yours i would say, so strike my question #4 and change "none" to "most"... :)

Hello David, ;)
I scanned this image from a Sulawesi touristic guide (Periplus) published in 1995. It looks a real gold kris and is more similar to the royal krisses from Makassar/ Gowa/ Bima.
Best regards
Jean

[David]

Hello David, ;)
I scanned this image from a Sulawesi touristic guide (Periplus) published in 1995. It looks a real gold kris and is more similar to the royal krisses from Makassar/ Gowa/ Bima.
Best regards
Jean
Yes, i have a feeling that this type of keris dress that we are associating with Toraja really originates in Makassar.

[Jean]

Perhaps then the keris in Toraja remained in the sphere of noble families only. But still, you say you never actually set eyes on these gold pusaka, so how do you know that they are indigenous Toraja keris and not from some other culture in Sulawesi, Java or elsewhere (Toraja nobles were know to marry nobles from outside their culture on occassion) ? How do you know what quality there were compared to a royal South Sulawesi keris?
Here are the questions i am not hearing answers to:
1. Why don't the 3 Torajan warriors from the 1930 photograph have keris amongst their weapons?
2. Why is it mainly women who seem to me carrying keris in the ceremonies i have shown in both photos and videos when the keris is for the most part a male dominated cultural symbol throughout most of the rest of Indonesia?
3. What evidence do we have that the keris was an important cultural item in Toraja pre, let's say, 1970? 1940? 1909?
4. None of the keris that i can spot in any of the photos or videos seem to be dressed in a similar fashion to either Jean's or Marco's keris. Why?
:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:


Hello David,
I will try to reply but have reached my limits so please consider my comments as personal and uncontrolled opinions only....
I did not actually see the gold krisses from the 2 Toraja gentlemen indeed but saw 1 or 2 pieces in a local museum which from memory were very similar to mine.
Yes, the blades of these krisses were possibly imported especially for the high quality ones, but note the large similarities and peculiar features of the blade from Marco and mine. I personally think that the sheaths & hilts were made locally as they are different from those from South Sulawesi which all have burung style hilts especially.
Question 1. To me the kris rather seems to have been a ceremonial weapon among the Toraja so it has not much to do with a warrior attire. And look at these guys, do they look like nobles or commoners?
Question 2. I have no idea why the women wore the krisses and not the men on the pictures but in the 2 cases which I know, they were clearly the property of the patriarch and passed from father to son AFAIK.
Question3. No idea especially because the Torajas were not well known until the 20th century.
Question 4. Besides my additional picture, the 2 "gold" krisses worn by women on one of your pictures look similar to mine although we cannot see the details. The videos are all recent and the girls wear tourist krisses so I won't rely on them... I will try to find other pictures or references.

Is there any member originating from Sulawesi who could tell us more?
Best regards
Jean

[David]

I hope you understand, Jean, that i have no "horse in this race", so to speak. I am just trying to sort out fact from conjecture and get a better grasp on the keris culture of Toraja and what it means. I also never intended that you be the only one to answer all my questions. They are not directed specifically at you, but at the community here as a whole, so i do indeed hope that others here can fill in the spaces when our own personal knowledge and research has run dry.
It seems obvious that the Torajan culture has its own specific take on the keris. As we know, in most Indonesian cultures the keris is, among other things, a symbol of manhood and lineage and is for the most part the provence of the men in the society. Patrems exist in these cultures, but they seem the exception, not the rule. From what i can see in these photos and videos it is quite the opposite story in Toraja. Toraja does not have a patriarchal society. Unlike other areas of Indonesia lineage is bilateral, so children inherit from both sides of the family. Women own property just as men do.
Even once the keris become a ceremonial weapon in Java i believe it would still be worn by a warrior because of the everything else it means within that society. It is possible that the keris was never a true weapon in Toraja, but then i would imagine that it came into their culture somewhat late on the general timeline of keris history. As for your question about the status level of the 3 old warriors, it may well be so that they are "commoners". Of course, in most areas with keris culture the keris has trickled down to commoner status level. Every man, even a commoner, would strive to own a keris. Then we must ask if this is not the case in Toraja, who was Marco's keris made for, because it certainly does not seem to be made on the level of quality and materials that would be worthy of a noble. I would think that if it were not made for a commoner, if only nobles in Toraja own keris, then Marco's most likely was intended for the tourist market. Yours, being of a higher quality with gold seems more likely to have had a different intention.
I don't know how you can tell what kind of keris the girls are carrying in the wedding video. The women in the dance video seem to be carrying props, not real keris at all. The keris in the funeral rituals look real enough, but it's impossible to tell without handling them. But these are real ceremonies in these videos even if they are open to the public. They are, unfortunately, all we have to rely on for now for a look at the current state of keris culture in Toraja.

[A. G. Maisey]

I have almost nothing of worth to add to this discussion at this time.

However, I do know a woman who comes from Tanah Toraja, quite well. She's a close friend of my wife and we exchange social visits. She has mentioned to me that she has her family's keris.

At the moment she is away from home, and I will be away myself as of next Saturday, but I'll follow this matter up when I get back, and I may be able to shed a little light on the subject.

As for the "wedding keris" business, I guess a "wedding keris" is any keris that that has been used as a dress item at a wedding. I know a bloke in Bali who almost bankrupted himself putting together the most beautiful keris I've seen , for his wedding. Gold hilt and scabbard set with an enormous number of sapphires, rubies, emeralds and diamonds. The blade was crap, but the dress was exceptional. It took him about five years of trying, after his wedding, to sell it.

I know people in Jawa who have borrowed or hired a keris for their wedding.

I know others who have just bought an ordinary keris that they could afford and then sold it after the wedding.

I know others who have used a family keris and then handed it back to Dad after the event.

Don't know what they do in Tanah Toraja, but if I remember to ask, I'm sure I'll find out.

[Laowang]

Photograph attached from 'The Torajans of Sulawesi Live to Die', Los Angeles Times, August 14, 2008. No real explanation of the kerises in the article, but another example of the presence of keris in Torajan contemporary culture. Article at link below:

www.latimes.com/travel/la-trw-fg-sulawesi-indonesia-deathtribe2008aug14,0,1337473.story?page=1 (http://)

There is a reference to keris and Toraja in Taylor & Aragon, Beyond the Java Sea (New York: Abrams, 1991), p.176: "The Toraja decorate their houses and rice barn facades with carved motifs important to the owning families. Buffalo heads refer to prosperity and ceremonial sacrifices. Gold knives, or kris (called gayang in the Toraja language), represent heirlooms and wealth of high-status people."

An accompanying photograph shows several keris as part of a funeral procession; the photograph is dated before 1949. I will try to scan the photograph at a later point, as I have no scanner at home.

[Jean]

Women own property just as men do.
Every man, even a commoner, would strive to own a keris.
Then we must ask if this is not the case in Toraja, who was Marco's keris made for, because it certainly does not seem to be made on the level of quality and materials that would be worthy of a noble. I would think that if it were not made for a commoner, if only nobles in Toraja own keris, then Marco's most likely was intended for the tourist market.


Hello David, :)
I agree that Toraja women could own pusaka krisses as well as confirmed by Alan, as these are family krisses.
I am not sure that every Toraja commoner would strive to own a keris, it this was the case, we would see more of them on the market, and in museums and collections. As a comparison in Aceh the commoners usually wore the rencong and the krisses were reserved to the elite.
I still believe that Marco's kris is a genuine piece and was used but "some nobles are more noble than others".
Thanks to Alan and Laowang for their contribution.
Best regards
Jean

[Marcokeris]

.....There is a reference to keris and Toraja in Taylor & Aragon, Beyond the Java Sea (New York: Abrams, 1991), p.176: "The Toraja decorate their houses and rice barn facades with carved motifs important to the owning families. Buffalo heads refer to prosperity and ceremonial sacrifices. Gold knives, or kris (called gayang in the Toraja language), represent heirlooms and wealth of high-status people."

An accompanying photograph shows several keris as part of a funeral procession; the photograph is dated before 1949. I will try to scan the photograph at a later point, as I have no scanner at home.

Don't worry Laowang i have scannered the page.
Thanks for information

[Sajen]

By my last visit in Makassar a few years ago I get a invitation from a a local parliamentarian in his house to view his antique collection. At last he show me his keris. I have said that it is a Gowa keris but he byself labeled it as Toraja keris. It was an piece from high quality, sheath and hilt was covered from 18 carat gold panel sheet (declaration from him, of course unproved but believable). Proud he told me that he have carried it by his wedding and that he still wear it by formal occasions. Unfortunately I wasn't able to take pictures since I have had my camera forgotten in my hotel.
Honestly I can't add any information if there is a keris culture in Toraja.
To this time I have had a look in several antique shops in Makassar and have seen some Bugis keris. The prices have been horrible high, much more than for example on Bali. But I havn't seen not one Gowa/Toraja keris, neither such ones for tourists nor genuine ones.

Regarding the question what make a keris a "wedding" keris I think that Alan give a sufficient answer in post #38. Let me add that I have seen when a cousin of my wife get married on Java her husband hired a keris for their ceremony. On Bali, nine years ago I have seen a very nice old Bali keris in Klungkung offered in a antique shop and when I come back one or two days later to buy it the owner told me that he have conferred it for a wedding ceremony. I am aware that the term "wedding keris" may be a western concept and this term is often to read by auction houses, special regarding Bali keris in magnificent dress.

I am like Jean still believe that the keris from Marco is a genuine keris with some age with of course lower quality and it's function has been to be part of a ceremonial dress, for example a wedding, but this is my personal "feeling/impression".

Sincerely,

Detlef

[Marcokeris]

In my post i wrote (toraja ?) not (toraja).
The keris of my post is a keris that, I SUPPOSE, could have been used (sorry for my bad english)in CEREMONiES . For ceremony i think: great moments in the life of a person.
I liked the keris only for the dress/hit of the blade... not for the blade that is ,of course, very very simple.
About the blade i saw, in my past, other similar keris with, really, beautifull gold saronsg/hits but... the blades were always very very simple .
Maybe in Sulawesi there are very good sarong workers but not so good keris makers...i don't know.
About the pic from the book i scannered i put here a similar tau tau pic

[Alam Shah]

I am confused because the passage that you just quoted seems to imply that smiths are, or at least were making ceremonial sword blades (as well as other cutting implements and tools) in Toraja in the 1970s. :confused:

Do you believe this dress shown here in Marco's and Jean's examples are a style particular to Toraja or is it borrowed perhaps from neighboring Makassar or some other culture in Sulawesi? Do you think the dress in these examples was actually made in Toraja, or is that imported as well. I must say that from looking at other Torajan art i do not see any of their particular designs and motifs exhibited in these keris.David, I'm confused as well.. I guess I misunderstood the quoted text. :o It's best to get people familiar with the Torajan culture to give accurate inputs.. I stand corrected, thanks guys for the added information.. Thanks Alan for illustrating the 'wedding keris'.. it's sometimes hard for me to express it in words.. ;)

[David]

It's best to get people familiar with the Torajan culture to give accurate inputs..
Completely agree Shahrial. I am hoping that Alan's source might be able to tell us something more, and of course any other direct sources we can find would be helpful as well as older photographs. If that one fro 1930 exists there must be some others i would imagine. :)

[Jean]

Don't worry Laowang i have scannered the page.
Thanks for information

Thank you Marco for this interesting picture. Although it is not very clear, it shows 2 important aspects:
. The tradition of owning krisses and wearing them during ceremonies was well established in the Toraja society before 1950.
. The krisses shown on this picture (and mine with the lady) look very similar to the old royal krisses from South Sulawesi and Sumbawa and the hilts seem to depict Hindu heroes, so my kris and the one from Marco (which are more common and recent) do not follow the traditional design.
These original gold krisses are very difficult to find even in South Sulawesi as confirmed by Detlef, and it seems to me that they had not been made since a long time may be because of their Hindu attributes.
Best regards
Jean

[David]

. The tradition of owning krisses and wearing them during ceremonies was well established in the Toraja society before 1950.
This is a good shot for establish timeline. It is also interesting because the keris aren't actually being worn here, they are attached to the sides of the carrier.

. The krisses shown on this picture (and mine with the lady) look very similar to the old royal krisses from South Sulawesi and Sumbawa and the hilts seem to depict Hindu heroes, so my kris and the one from Marco (which are more common and recent) do not follow the traditional design.
Since they do not follow the design seen here are they still traditional Toraja keris. Have you both IDed them as such based on place of purchase or some kind of provenance?

These original gold krisses are very difficult to find even in South Sulawesi as confirmed by Detlef, and it seems to me that they had not been made since a long time may be because of their Hindu attributes.
AFAIK the Torajan populous is, on the outside at least, about 82% Christian and only 6% Islamic, so it seems unlikely that they would ban Hindu deities bases on Islamic prohibition of form. And in spite of their conversion to Christianity they have held on to many of their animistic traditions.
:shrug:

[Jean]

1. Since they do not follow the design seen here are they still traditional Toraja keris. Have you both IDed them as such based on place of purchase or some kind of provenance?

2.AFAIK the Torajan populous is, on the outside at least, about 82% Christian and only 6% Islamic, so it seems unlikely that they would ban Hindu deities bases on Islamic prohibition of form. And in spite of their conversion to Christianity they have held on to many of their animistic traditions. :shrug:

1. They still basically follow the original design but with some variations (shape of the hilt and sampir) and a lower manufacturing standard. My impression is that they are modern Toraja krisses (20th century) and the manufacturing tradition of the original ones seems to have been lost unless somebody could show us the contrary (except replicas like mine of course). I bought my "Toraja" piece from an antique dealer in Jakarta in 1998, and I just knew that it was used and originated from Sulawesi but not more than that.

2. I don't mean the Toraja people but these gold krisses were probably made in South Sulawesi and exported to the Toraja area, so after the conversion of the Bugis and Makassarese to Islam at the beginning of the 17th century, these krisses with Hindu features probably became less popular among the Muslim population except those made for the Toraja market as they remained animists. Again this is based on the observation that these krisses can't be found anymore in South Sulawesi (except probably some pusakas in the noble families) but are still present among the Toraja elite.

[A. G. Maisey]

This morning my wife and I visited the friend I mentioned in post # 38.

I asked her why it was that when we see pictures of Toraja gatherings and a keris is present, it is now almost always with a woman, rather than with a man.

Does this mean that for Toraja people the keris is not now a male symbol and if so, was it ever a male symbol for Toraja people?

I did not know it before this morning, but apparently this woman comes from minor royalty, so I am assuming, I hope correctly, that what she has told me has some element of accuracy in it.

The full conversation used a couple of hours and we were given lots and lots of irrelevant information, but the essence of her answer in respect of keris was this:-

1) In times past, perhaps in her great grandparent's time, the keris was identified with men, because men were the hunters and the warriors.

2) In the present day the keris is recognized as a part of cultural inheritance, but it is no longer the specific preserve of men, no longer associated directly with men, but where it is an heirloom, a pusaka, it is associated with the family. Within a family it might fall to a man, or to his wife to look after the keris, and if it is worn, it is mostly worn by the woman as a dress ornament that is associated with culture. Nothing more.

3) In her own family, and in most other families that she knows, the last two generations have not passed on any of the knowledge of culture and family history. She is of the opinion that WWII destroyed the continuation of culture and that independence and the entry to modern times helped, because the old people saw that the younger generations were not interested in what had come before, so they did not try to teach them, but if a question was asked, only then would they answer.

4) As things stand right now, the only people who truly understand the culture are specialists and people in universities. In a normal family the family keris has become just an ornament that is used sometimes in traditional dress.

This woman has lived in Australia for about 20 years, but she spends three months every year back with her family in Torajaland. She appears to be completely in touch with the present day situation there.

She knew absolutely nothing of the esoteric side of the keris as it applies in Jawa and Bali

[Sajen]

Come across by my last trip to Indonesia again a Toraja/Gowa keris of lower quality but obviously very old or at last heavy used. I wasn't able to buy it (what I would like to do :D ) but I get the permission to take photos and to show them here. Enjoy! :)

[Marcokeris]

Very interesting and nice pics.Thanks :)

[Rick]

Thank you Detlef . :)

I am coming to the conclusion that for the peoples of Toraja at least the actual keris itself was much more a vehicle for the dress than an esoteric object .

The face of the figure reminds me of a funeral mask .

[ganjawulung]

Late sharing on Marco's thread. I have some pictures of kerises from Kesultanan Bone of South Sulawesi or known popularly as Kesultanan Bugis too. You may compare the style of these images on Bone keris, with "pangulu tau tau" (human head hilt). These were the Museum Gajah's collection, the National Museum of Jakarta...

GANJAWULUNG

[ganjawulung]

This is also Museum Gajah's Collection on Kesultanan Bone's keris, taken from BlackBerry cellphone...

[ganjawulung]

Another Kerajaan Bone's keris, from the collection of Museum Gajah, the National Museum of Jakarta...

[ganjawulung]

One of two kerises is a Kerajaan Gowa (also South Sulawesi) keris (first from left), from the collection of Tropen Museum, Amsterdam, Holland. I took this picture two years ago...

After the domination of eastern Nusantara imperium Kesultanan Gowa in Sulawesi -- after Makassar war 1667 -- then under the Dutch influence, the Sulawesi was dominated by Kerajaan Bone (Bone Sultanate). At that time, the XVI sultan of Gowa was Sultan Hassanuddin 1653-1669, and the sultan of Bone Sultanate was La Tenri Arung Palakka 1672-1696 (the statue with spear and keris in Bone, Watampone depicted Arung Palakka). Both kesultanans had their sultans from 1300-s...

GANJAWULUNG