Some more objects from the RDG - Keris, kaskara (?) and spears [Archive]

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RDGAC

14th May 2010, 03:42 PM

Howdy all; while still patiently working on our jezail (many thanks to Ward and Jim for their excellent insights, along with anyone else I've missed - d'oh!), I've begun to wonder about some of the other ethnographic arms in our collection. Most were captured from then-enemy forces at various points during the 19th century and have been in the possession of the Regiment, and latterly the Museum, for many years, with virtually no documentation to their name. Since I've made it my policy to take periodic breaks from transferring the accession registers to our new system (boring but important) for the sake of my own sanity, I thought I might as well enquire with you folks and get any information you might have. And as a side benefit, some of you might even come and visit - who knows? :D

We begin with this, which I believe is a Malay keris (or kris - which is better?), presented by Field Marshal Sir Nigel Bagnall and accessioned in 1987. It is simply recorded as "Dagger Indonesian Ceremonial", with no elaboration. Without further ado, the pics!

Length overall (weapon in scabbard): 26in (66cm)
Length weapon overall: 21.75in (55cm)
Length blade: 16in (40.6cm)
Length grip: 5.25in (12.7cm)
Length scabbard overall: 20.25in (51.5cm)
Width at widest point: 3.75in (9.5cm)
Width 0.25in from tip: ~0.5in (1.27cm)
Grip material: Silver, with crimson gemstones (rubies?) at base of grip
Scabbard max width: ~7.25in

An overview of the flat of the weapon's right-hand side (I think):
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7180/img0352yk.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4650/img0353dz.jpg

Same side, grip/pommel:
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3721/img0355b.jpg

Same side blade:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2351/img0356jx.jpg

Close-ups of the joint between blade and grip:
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4954/img0357um.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6297/img0358n.jpg

Blade, left-hand side:
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4245/img0359p.jpg

(At this point, I should like to stress that none of the staff here at present are responsible for painting that number on the blade. I'd dearly love to remove it.)

Blade, right-hand side, flash highlighting the carving near the base of the blade:
http://img210.imageshack.us/i/img0360gi.jpg/

Scabbard, right-hand side:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9315/img0361qp.jpg

Close-ups, decoration, base and tip:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9777/img0362wt.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8923/img0363v.jpg

Overall, with 45cm (18in) ruler for size comparison:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1144/img0364m.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/9576/img0365m.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3047/img0366kv.jpg

Top down, attempting to give a view within scabbard:
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/787/img0367v.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9114/img0368c.jpg

Overall of both weapon and scabbard, with ruler:
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1919/img0369fn.jpg

Overall, weapon in scabbard, with ruler:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/255/img0370gl.jpg

Close-up, showing degree of blade protrusion from base of scabbard:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9101/img0371wf.jpg

VANDOO

14th May 2010, 04:35 PM

A VERY INTERESTING KERIS, THE HILT APPEARS TO BE FROM BALI, PERHAPS SILVER OR TIN OR SOME OTHER WHITE METAL :confused: . I AM FAR FROM AN EXPERT ON THE KEIS AND IT IS DEFINITELY A COMPLICATED WEAPON TO STUDY SO WILL LEAVE FURTHER COMMENT TO THE KERIS SCHOLARS. :)
THIS POST PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE MOVED TO THE KERIS PART OF THE FORUM WHERE THEY WILL BE SURE TO SEE IT. PERHAPS A MODERATOR WILL SEE IT AND MAKE THE MOVE. BEST OF LUCK

Jim McDougall

14th May 2010, 04:45 PM

A beautiful weapon indeed!! but the keris is far outside my fields of study. The complexity and dimension of these fascinating weapons needs full and specialized attention in most cases, and once captivated by these, as the keris guys will concede, theres no turning back !!:)

Sure would like to see the kaskara and spears though!!

All best regards,
Jim

RDGAC

14th May 2010, 04:49 PM

Ye-es, I remembered that forum just after posting this message. I'm not sure what to do about that - perhaps part this topic and edit its title, then make a new one for the other bits in here. Anyway, I'm sure all will be well.

Incidentally, a small plaque affixed to the case in which this weapon resides (which I cleverly didn't look at earlier) states that this particular keris was presented by General Try Sutrisno, then Chief of Staff, Indonesian National Army. That'd date its presentation to between 1985 and 1993, I believe, with the A/N suggesting 1985-86.

Jim, one kaskara coming right up!

Sajen

14th May 2010, 05:22 PM

This is a very nice balinese keris with silver (?) hilt and sheat, do you have tested it? The hilt is in wrong direction, turn it by 180 degree.

Rick

14th May 2010, 09:01 PM

Can we break this into two separate posts fellows ? :)

Perhaps start a new thread in Ethno beginning with the Kaskara .
There is quite a volume of posts on Kaskara to be found in an archive search .

Leave the keris in here under our tender care . ;) :D

ganjawulung

14th May 2010, 09:45 PM

Yes,

Agree with Detlef, a Balinese Keris (Item #1). It could be a Lombok keris too. Not a javanese keris.

The warangka (sheath) type is "gayaman" (Bali) or in Lombok called as Tolang Paoq (mango seed).The name of wood motif (pelet) is Pelet Moto, or Pelet Sengareq or Pelet Bintang in Lombok depicted as scattered rice or scattered stars in the sky, and with (could be) silver scabbard.

The type of keris, is Balinese seven luks (waves), with hilt type of (silver?) Togogan -- usually depicted gods or raksasa/giant creature..

GANJAWULUNG

David

14th May 2010, 09:48 PM

I split the thread off to the main forum Rick. Keris is here, kaskara is there. :)

Rick

15th May 2010, 01:35 AM

Kewl .... :cool: :D

RDGAC

17th May 2010, 04:12 PM

Ah. Thanks chaps, will turn the hilt as suggested - carefully! Is there any particular method, or any nasty surprises of which a novice ought to be warned before attempting this?

Sajen

17th May 2010, 04:17 PM

Ah. Thanks chaps, will turn the hilt as suggested - carefully! Is there any particular method, or any nasty surprises of which a novice ought to be warned before attempting this?

The only surprise will be that the hilt is not free to move. ;)

DAHenkel

23rd May 2010, 03:25 AM

It should also be pointed out that this is almost certainly a reworked piece. The silverwork is probably contemporaneous to the time of its presentation and to my eye does fit the late 80's early 90's. The blade and sheath look older though.

RDGAC

9th June 2010, 02:31 PM

Most interesting, one and all; I've just dug this example out for inspection again and am unsure as to whether the hilt is silver or not. It seems, to me, a little light for such, but that might just be a very careful bit of balancing on the part of the smith who made it. As to the scabbard, it is very light indeed and the "silver" is cracked on one side; since I don't think one can plate wood it must, I think, be some kind of veneer-like material.

Rick

9th June 2010, 03:30 PM

This is often sheet silver applied over a solid core .

RDGAC

9th June 2010, 04:55 PM

Indeed it would appear so, Rick; looking at it, a pair of seams are quite clearly visible. The sheet cannot be more than one or perhaps two millimetres in thickness, yet is extraordinarily finely worked. Quite marvellous!

Meredydd Jones

Battara

9th June 2010, 06:13 PM

Often thin sheet silver is needed to do repousse work. Pictures would b helpful.

Rick

9th June 2010, 06:14 PM

Yes, these kerisses ....
Quite addictive for some collectors .... ;)

kulbuntet

24th June 2010, 12:27 AM