Interesting big sized javanese keris

[Gustav]

Dear All,

I acquired this keris slightly more the a month ago. The pics from seller (Netherlands) were as they mostly are, but I was absolutely aware of that it would be a low-average quality keris, yet something very interesting to study, learn about keris. The money was also not big, so I have it now.

What attracted my attention was the rather substantial body of the blade. If we look at the keris from old european collections (17. cent.) in Karsten Sejr Jensen's book or Krisdisk, the javanese blades there are often very substantial in width and length.

(Of course my blade very possibly is younger then 17. cent.)

It came in an older East-Javanese wrongko, which is original to the blade; and it has a not recent mendak and nice East-Javanese hilt. Gandar is missing.

Length of the blade: 41,5 cm, width of the gonjo: 9,4 cm, width at the third luk: 3 cm.

It has full ricikan: blumbangan, two sogokan, kembang kacang with jenggot, jalen, one lambe gajah, tikel alis, kruwingan, greneng with ron dha nunut, ada-ada till the tip of the luk 13 blade.

The gonjo is Sebit Ron, Sebit Ron Tal.

The blade is very substantial but feels light for this size. Pamor is a lush wos wutah (probably called Pedharingan Kebak ?).

There is a great number of shortcomings, some caused by working process, some by wear:

1) greneng is not evenly cut, dha's doesn't have the same size and form;

2) the biggest fault, probably evident from the first day, is the loss of a layer at the Sirah Cecak of gonjo. It was caused by the obstacle, the smith choosed to forge a gonjo with horizontal layers (some sort of gonjo with pamor Mas Kemambang probably?), and not vertical, which would probably give the same wos wutah pamor (?) and be the aesthetically more satisfying and more common version.

The horizontal layers wasn't even and perfectly horizontal, and probably due to bad forging work or metal quality there is a loss of a part of the last layer and a gap;

3) kembang kacang has been pushed in to the gandhik, jenggot is almost completely gone;

[Gustav]

4) the most disturbing is the loss of material at the upper part of wadidang;

5) at two places (one on each side, both times inner curvature) the pamor material not perfectly covering slorok.

6) on one side (kembang kacang to wright when held in the hand) the sogokan and tikel alis are better cut, with a good drive, on the other (the common side, kembang kacang to left) the sogokan are a little bit stiff, to even in the width, the lis at the end of tikel alis a little bit blurred.

[Gustav]

The blade;

[Gustav]

A nice East Javanese hilt, the "nose" is partially broken. It has an interesting "shadow" on one side, may be it could be called "pelet wayang"?

The patra's were full till surface with old hardened oil & dirt.

[Gustav]

Wrongko seems to be original (there is a damage at the gandhik side, but all other inner sides are well patinated). It has a nice wood grain, has been broken an glued together.

Pesi is substantial, appropriate to the blade.

This was my attempt to do a "documentation" of a keris, what I see when I look at it "technically".

Regarding this keris I have some questions. Could we call it an East Javanese keris? What are the features typical for an East Javanese keris? Are the blades also in 18. and 19. cent. more substantial then Central Javanese? What is known about size as a rank indicator for the wearer?

[Sajen]

Hello Gustav,

interesting keris. What come direkt in my mind by you description is what Alan G. Maisey write in a other thread some time ago:
Sajen, its an old keris, and its not a bad keris. Not all keris are masterworks of the art. This is a good, solid, representative keris of its type, personally, I like it.

My own collection is the product of more than 50 years of collecting, I do have some very exceptional pieces in that collection, but I also have a lot of keris that are far, very far, from perfect, and if I consider those keris with which I would not part, most of the keris in this category are the very imperfect ones that I feel a bond with, rather than the princely pieces adorned in gold.

When you buy keris, it is perhaps best to choose those keris that you personally like, and think you might be able to feel something for, rather than a piece of perfection that leaves you cold.If you can find the aesthetically beautiful keris, and you feel something for it as well, that's when you've hit the jackpot.

Wrongko seems to be Kemuning wood. My feeling is the same as yours, I think it is a east javanese keris.

Regards,

Detlef

[Marcokeris]

Hallo gustav
Your keris seems very nice and old.
Surely wrongko (i think kemuning too or... trembalù) is old
Hit could be Timoho (is the "shadow" natural?)
Also I think east Jawa

[Gustav]

Thank you, Detlef and Marco, for responses.

Alan is absolutely wright.

The "shadow" is a little bit of mysterium for me. It seems to be the same piece of wood, there is nothing glued, yet the line between both colours is very clear, the black part very homogenous. This line goes trough both patra's and it seems, regarding the carvings, there is no work with colour or something else. A spot of this black colour appears also on the bungkul at other, bright side.

Sarung (or the remains of it) seems to be East Javanese, the blade also. The problem is, my only experience regarding this subject are few books, nothing more. In Jensen's book some of the keris are attributed to Bantem, some to East Jawa, and it seems to me, he's point wasn't the blade characteristics.

There must be similarities, becouse both styles are coming from Mojopahit, but what are the differences?

Also I have very little information about East Java historically and culturally.

[Sajen]

I think that the hilt is kayu Timoho.

[A. G. Maisey]

The theory is that Blambangan came from Majapahit, Bali came from Majapahit, Banten came from Blambangan.

Majapahit was bolstered by Pajajaran smiths.

Surakarta style echoes in some respects Majapahit style.

Blambangan are regarded by some experts in Jawa as within the the same stylistic parameters as Majapahit.

However, when we see Majapahit keris that are almost universally agreed to be Majapahit, they are nowhere near the same size as Blambangan.- but you can see the stylistic relationship.

A lot of keris that come from far east of East Jawa are quite big --- I'm not talking about what might be regarded as clasical Blambangan keris, but east Jawa keris from the far East of Jawa.

Once again with this keris of Gustav's we're trying to play the tangguh game.

Bad move.

Its too difficult from pics and all the guesses just confuse people and make the water muddier than it already is.

In any case, its a decent old keris, and the delamination on the gonjo is, for me, a very minor defect, its just part of the character of a very old keris.

The wrongko is text-book trembalu, the jejeran might be timoho, but timoho is not used very often for jejeran because it is inclined to be soft. If it is not a very soft wood in the white sections, it might be safer to call it "pelet" which refers to the two colours and can be a number of different woods.

[Jean]

Hallo gustav
Your keris seems very nice and old.
Surely wrongko (i think kemuning too or... trembalù) is old
Hit could be Timoho (is the "shadow" natural?)
Also I think east Jawa

Hello Gustav,
As Marco suggests, did you try to file a corner of the black spot on the hilt for ensuring that it is original and not dyed?
Best regards
Jean

[Gustav]

Thank you for the response, Alan.

Jean, I would never file a corner of this hilt, sorry :shrug:, I would rather live with a tought it's dyed (you see now, I am not professional). I washed it finally, the wooden grain is really beautiful and good choosen. I will make some pictures when it will be dry and oiled. Material is timoho.

[A. G. Maisey]

Gustav, if you're certain its timoho, fair enough, end of story, but you can test without filing corners. If I wanted to test it, I'd go up inside the hole with a small very sharp knife, it is quite easy to gauge the hardness of the pale and dark wood in this way.

[Sajen]

Hello Alan,

I every time have problems to differentiate between kayu Trembola and kayu Kemuning (like to see ;) ). Would you be so kind to show two examples side by side and explain the differents? Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm sorry Sajen, but I can't do this.

I have never seen any wrongkos that the people in the circles I move in identify as kemuning. Yes, kemuning is a well known wood, and I hear kemuning mentioned here continually, but I have not ever held a wrongko in my hands that anybody I know identified as kemuning.

Trembalu , on the other hand is well known, prized, and met with fairly frequently in older pieces.

The wrongko in this thread looks exactly like what we know as trembalu, but there is a range of colour in trembalu, sometimes it can be quite a bit darker and redder than this.

As we know, colour rendition in any photos can be extremely unreliable.

[Sajen]

So this wrongko is also from trembalu?

[Sajen]

I have just searched for kemuning in old threads and looked to some books and there is said that sampirs from Bugis/Sumatera/Malay keris are often made from kemunig. And I think that for example this sampir from a other thread is worked from kemuning. I show it side by side with the wrongko from #16 to show the affinity from the grain of this both.

[A. G. Maisey]

The Jawa wrongko looks like trembalu to me.

I do not know the local and correct name for the wood in the Malay wrongko.

I have seen this degree of chatoyancy in many other woods, both SE Asian woods and European woods. You can find a chatoyant grain such as we see here in any number of common cabinet timbers, walnut for instance. In SE Asian timbers I've seen similar grain in scented sandalwood.

I'm afraid that from a picture of a piece of polished wood I simply cannot tell what the wood might be most of the time. I'm just not that good.

EDIT I probably should add that kemuning is certainly known in Jawa, but we know it as material for jejeran; it is ideal for this purpose because it has a tight, close, fine grain.Its a yellowish wood and needs to be stained after it has been carved. In these wrongkos with highly chatoyant grain, I don't see anything that I would recognise as kemuning.

[Gustav]

Dear All,

that's what it looks like after some cleaning:

1) I was wrong, it is not timoho (probably kemuning but not stained?); just when I cleaned patra's, the bright parts seemed to be soft wood.

2) I am nearly sure now the "shadows" are dyed; the consistence of wood there seems to be harder, also better for carving - the details are better cut were the wood is black.

The long lines visible now on bright parts are recognizable also within the "shadow".

The wood of my wrongko IS darker and more reddish then on the two pictures; the natural color is more like in the one with keris inside (same post).

There are some wrongko examples from Hidayat's site. It seems, he calls it Kemuning when long paralel lines in the wood are visible, sometimes it seems to be the only difference.

Trembalo: http://keris.fotopic.net/p55407012.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p50102970.html , http://keris.fotopic.net/p52103495.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p61975575.html

Kemuning: http://keris.fotopic.net/p50102970.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p50299622.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p50103001.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p52104027.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p45534487.html

[Sajen]

The Jawa wrongko looks like trembalu to me.

I do not know the local and correct name for the wood in the Malay wrongko.

I have seen this degree of chatoyancy in many other woods, both SE Asian woods and European woods. You can find a chatoyant grain such as we see here in any number of common cabinet timbers, walnut for instance. In SE Asian timbers I've seen similar grain in scented sandalwood.

I'm afraid that from a picture of a piece of polished wood I simply cannot tell what the wood might be most of the time. I'm just not that good.

EDIT I probably should add that kemuning is certainly known in Jawa, but we know it as material for jejeran; it is ideal for this purpose because it has a tight, close, fine grain.Its a yellowish wood and needs to be stained after it has been carved. In these wrongkos with highly chatoyant grain, I don't see anything that I would recognise as kemuning.

Thank you Alain for the time you spend by this. And you are right; I also know this grain from walnut, very similar. And it's maybe possible that there are different sorts of kemuning.

[Sajen]

Dear All,

that's what it looks like after some cleaning:

1) I was wrong, it is not timoho (probably kemuning but not stained?); just when I cleaned patra's, the bright parts seemed to be soft wood.

2) I am nearly sure now the "shadows" are dyed; the consistence of wood there seems to be harder, also better for carving - the details are better cut were the wood is black.

The long lines visible now on bright parts are recognizable also within the "shadow".

The wood of my wrongko IS darker and more reddish then on the two pictures; the natural color is more like in the one with keris inside (same post).

There are some wrongko examples from Hidayat's site. It seems, he calls it Kemuning when long paralel lines in the wood are visible, sometimes it seems to be the only difference.

Trembalo: http://keris.fotopic.net/p55407012.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p50102970.html , http://keris.fotopic.net/p52103495.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p61975575.html

Kemuning: http://keris.fotopic.net/p50102970.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p50299622.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p50103001.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p52104027.html, http://keris.fotopic.net/p45534487.html


Hello Gustav,

nice jejeran. I think that you want to write under 2. that you sure that the black parts are not dyed. And it will be like this since nothing is gone from the black by the cleaning.

About kemuning and trembalo: It's still a mystery for me to differ between this two woods, special after seeing the examples you have shown.

Best,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

I believe the people who are taking part in this conversation are aware that I deal, ie, I buy and sell keris.

I also have very extensive experience and many contacts in the dealer network in Indonesia, that stretch back over 40 years.

Perhaps it might be as well to note that a dealer will often discover that the name of something is what a number of his buyers would like it to be.

Never forget:- the customer is always right.

And this applies doubly in Indonesia.

Many dealers, especially Indonesian dealers, are extremely knowledgeable, but that does not mean that what they tell their customers is necessarily what they themselves know, or believe, to be accurate.

In Jawa you simply do not find a lot of big kemuning trees, thus it is not regarded as a wrongko wood, but rather as a wood for jejeran. Outside Jawa in the Peninsula, and probably Kalimantan, it seems there are more big kemuning trees, so it is used for wrongkos, because sometimes you do get nginden (chatoyant) grain in kemuning.

Another quite common wood that is used in Jawa for wrongkos, and has distinct similarities to kemuning is akasia.

[Sajen]

I believe the people who are taking part in this conversation are aware that I deal, ie, I buy and sell keris.

I also have very extensive experience and many contacts in the dealer network in Indonesia, that stretch back over 40 years.

Perhaps it might be as well to note that a dealer will often discover that the name of something is what a number of his buyers would like it to be.

Never forget:- the customer is always right.

And this applies doubly in Indonesia.

Many dealers, especially Indonesian dealers, are extremely knowledgeable, but that does not mean that what they tell their customers is necessarily what they themselves know, or believe, to be accurate.

In Jawa you simply do not find a lot of big kemuning trees, thus it is not regarded as a wrongko wood, but rather as a wood for jejeran. Outside Jawa in the Peninsula, and probably Kalimantan, it seems there are more big kemuning trees, so it is used for wrongkos, because sometimes you do get nginden (chatoyant) grain in kemuning.

Another quite common wood that is used in Jawa for wrongkos, and has distinct similarities to kemuning is akasia.


Yes, without doubt you are right. I am a little bit younger than you, don't have spend so many time in Indonesia and mainly my treasury of words in bahasa indonesia is very bordered and my knowledge of keris is extremely limited but this is something I have learned.

So I take it as fact that when you have a javanese/madurese wrongko with a grain like this it will be mainly from trembalu or one of the other woods you mentioned. And the wrongkos from Peninsula as well Bugis wrongkos most of the time from kemuning. Thank's again for the time you spend by this.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm not saying that it is not possible for a Javanese wrongko to be from kemuning.

I'm sure some older wrongkos, were from kemuning, but I have never seen or handled one that people who know more than I do identified as kemuning. Over the years I have known three or four tukang wrongko very well, and a couple of tukang jejeran very well. The tukang jejeran would not infrequently mention kemuning, the tukang wrongko never did.

Kemuning is a light coloured yellowish wood. If it is dark, it has been stained, If a wood that is darkish and has the appearance of kemuning has not been stained, it is not kemuning.

There is a type of kemuning that is called "red kemuning" (kemuning bang), but its only reddish when it is freshly cut, when it dries its just as pale as any other kemuning.

Kemuning that has a nginden grain is very, very difficult to work, the nginden grain is fibrous, and it is exceptionally difficult to get a good polished finish to it, so even if there were to be a piece large enough for a wrongko, the finishing of it to wrongko standard poses a problem.

Kemuning does not look anything like trembalu, and trembalu does not look anything like akasia, even though both usually have a nginden grain.

[sirek]

perhaps you can see the differences in these pictures? :shrug:

[Sajen]

perhaps you can see the differences in these pictures? :shrug:

When both wrongkos unstained, yes! :) ;)

[David]

perhaps you can see the differences in these pictures? :shrug:
The only thing i can see in photos of this size is a difference in the color of the wood which could very well be stain as much as natural. Perhaps you could repost these much larger and explain what differences you see between them.
:)

[sirek]

These pictures are from the net, and I forgot to mention the source where I have pictures of, maybe the real pictures on the site are clearer:
(to enlarge the photo press the left Ctrl button and tap the + button.
back to normal: ctrl and -button)

http://www.tjokrosuharto.com/catalog/keris.php/language/en

or you can have a look at this site:
http://blade.japet.com/KRISS/K-Artisans/K-bois.htm

(and the real names):

Kemuning -(Murraya Paniculata)
Trembalo - (Cassia Glauca)

[Gustav]

I just think, we should take earnest what Alan has written about this.

Here an old post about Kemuning in bugis sheath:

Typically, only the root portion of the kemuning trunk is used to make the sheath and the hilt. As the kumuning is more of a very slow-growing bush than a tree, it has to be a hundred or two hundred years old to have a thick enough root portion for the sheath. Hilts can come from smaller bushes.

The kemuning trees that grow in very harsh environment has the most beautiful grains. Sometimes, the root grows over rocky/sandy soil, and the root envelopes sand or rock within itself. Some pieces of kemuning wood thus have sand within the wood that is so compacted that they have literally become sandstone. This hilt could have had that void because of this. Normally, such kemuning are not used, but for some reason, this hilt is made out of such a piece. Perhaps for esoteric reasons - insertion of talisman, etc?.

The way the grain radiates out of the centre top of the sheath seems to be a Sulawesi characteristic. I don't see this sort of "radiation" (hmm... sounds nuclear :p ) on kemuning sheaths from other regions.

[A. G. Maisey]

These photos are from a sales site.

Please re-read what I have already written about salesmen's descriptions.

On this site is also shown akasia, however, the colour of the wood shown bears no resemblance to akasia.

The wood identified as kemuning is textbook akasia colour and grain. To confirm that it is akasia it would need to be handled.

Wood big enough for a wrongko and with a chatoyant grain must come from either a branch junction (in some instances) or from the root area. You need a very big tree to get chatoyant grain.

It is a very, very long time since there have been big kemuning trees in Jawa. In 40 years I have never seen large pieces of kemuning wood for sale. Never.

However, this wrongko identified on this sales site has every appearance of a new wrongko.

Perhaps the very worst source of information for somebody who knows very, very little about keris is an Indonesian seller of keris.


There is at least one error in the the other site too.

[Ria]

Dear Alan,

I have some info to share.

I referred my pictures below. Here in my place, people liked to name it as tumbuk lada instead or siwar/sewar.

When I ordered a new dress for this siwar from tukang in Terengganu, Malaysia, I have specifically asked for kemuning. He admitted this wood very hard to find and managed to get some of it.

I do not know wether he correct about kemuning, but majority people in my place believed it is kemuning.

I provide a picture of the wood before and after polishing.

Regards,

Ria

[A. G. Maisey]

I thank you for these photos Pak Ria.

All I can say is that both your chatoyant yellow wood, and the chatoyant yellow wood in the other photograph have the precise appearance of akasia.

If you tell me that you have been told by the tukang wrongko that it is kemuning, I believe you.

The only kemuning that I have seen, and that I know was kemuning, has been in old Peninsula and Bugis wrongkos. It has been hard, and the chatoyant grain has had the nature of a sunburst, rather than the consistent fiddleback grain that I can see in the other wrongko and in your scabbard. I have never seen a kemuning wrongko with this fiddleback grain, but I have seen Javanese hilts with a fiddleback grain.

On the other hand, I have seen a lot of wrongkos made from akasia that do have the consistent fiddleback grain that is shown in your scabbard and in the other wrongko.

We're working with photos here, not the real thing, but based upon what I can see in the photos I would without hesitation say that I'm looking at akasia, simply because I have never seen any verifiable kemuning that looks anything like this, but I have seen a great deal of akasia that looks precisely like it.

I have also seen other woods that are close to kemuning in colour, and that have a fiddleback grain, and that have been used in wrongkos, such as paumarfin--- a South American wood that a dealer in Jawa imported a very large quantity of from Sth America about 30 years ago.

But if you tell me that your scabbard is kemuning, I believe you; its just that this is the only piece of kemuning that I've ever seen that looks like this --- except for the wrongko in the previous linked site.

One of the facts of life is that akasia is a wood that has only begun to be used in the recent past. It has no history, and no esoterica attached to it. In fact, although it is sourced from Indonesian trees, I'm not even certain that it is an Indonesian idigenous wood. Its always easier to sell something if that something can be linked to a little bit of tradition. Akasia has no tradition.

EDIT

Above I said

"I have never seen a kemuning wrongko with this fiddleback grain"

This is possibly an incorrect statement.

What is perhaps more correct is:-

I have never seen wood in a wrongko atasan with a fiddleback grain that I knew was definitely kemuning

[David]

In recent years it was discovered that Sushi restaurants were substituting Tilapia for Red Snapper and not saying anything. The Tilapia is cheaper and more available. If some suspicious persons hadn't decided to do DNA testing we might never have known. Who knows, in 30 or 40 years we might all be thinking that Tilapia WAS Red Snapper. This kind of thing happens everywhere with all things.
Of course, as it happens, i prefer Tilapia. ;) :)

[Sajen]

I just think, we should take earnest what Alan has written about this.

Here an old post about Kemuning in bugis sheath:

I second the opinion from Gustav. Both, Alan as well as Kai Wee will know it better than most of the others. :) ;)

[A. G. Maisey]

I've been thinking about this discussion on kermuning.

It seems to me that the main reason we're going around in circles on this one is that there is a tendency for people to confuse wood grain and/or colour with variations in wood types.

The chatoyant, fiddle back grain that has been shown by some of us as an example of kemuning can occur in a variety of woods, and the grain itself, and colour, are not indicative of the type of wood we are looking at. To know the type of wood, you need a very great depth of knowledge, probably specialist training over many years, and to have the wood in your hand.

My profession is audit and risk management, but my family background is fine art cabinet making, and I have dabbled in wood work at times, for instance, back in my twenties I had a nice little hobby business going, making custom built rifle stocks.

There are a number of fancy grains that we use in wood work in Australia that are also identifiable as wood grains known in Jawa:-

Fiddle back = nginden
Feather crotch = simbar
Bird's eye = semburatan
Burl = gembol
------ and so on.


Here is a link to a site with a number of examples of fancy grains that are known and used in western cultures;

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_figure.htm

select a term from the list on the left of the page, and then click on the link to the photo examples.

Most, if not all of the grains shown here are known in Jawa.

However, these grains can occur in a number of different timbers, so the grain by itself is not an identifier of the wood type, and colours of the same wood type can run through a range, so colour by itself is not an indication of the wood type.

With a great deal of knowledge and experience a person can take a piece of wood in hand and possibly name the wood type, if he has experience with that wood, but from photos all we have are colour and grain, so we tend to relate that colour and grain to what we have learnt from physical examples of material.

It is very difficult to be certain about a wood type from a photo, but we can be certain about a wood grain from a photo

[A. G. Maisey]

The following 20 or so images are examples of similar wood grains.

I cannot correctly name all the different types of wood that are shown here. I can name some with absolute certainty, I can guess at others, and there are some that I do not know.

I am inviting everybody to nominate the images which are images of kemuning.

[A. G. Maisey]

A few more.

[A. G. Maisey]

And a few more.

[A. G. Maisey]

The examples of wood that I posted yesterday have been viewed 110 times since they were posted.

It appears that none of these 110 views has been sufficient to permit any of the viewers to identify the examples of kemuning.

Here are the woods that I know with absolute certainty:-

akasia:-

6, 4, 3, 2, 11, 8, 16

pau marfin:-

13, 21

Tasmanian blackwood:-

22

#1 is probably akasia, but I am not certain.

the following numbers I am uncertain of; I can guess that some are kemuning, but I do not know with absolute certainty that this is the case:-

20, 10, 9, 7, 5, 18, 17, 15, 12, 19, 23 & 23.

Note:- I made an error in numbering, there are two examples identified as #23

[Sajen]

Yup, who want to be sure about the sort of wood after this discussion? You show us with conclusive arguments how difficult it is to destine the nature of a wood. On the other hand you also suspect that the shown wrongkos from Bugis and Peninsula are possible kemuning.
Who have read this thread will be in future more distrustful by descriptions from sellers which wood is used by a wrongko/sarung of a keris.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Sajen, that was the point of the exercise.

As we have commented time and time again:-

here, we are looking at images of objects, wood included, not the actual object


it is often very difficult to be too certain about anything.

I do believe some of the Bugis and Peninsula examples are kemuning, but I don't really know, because the kemuning I have seen and handled most of has been only as big as a jejeran, and nearly always stained. It is entirely possible that there are other local woods used in these Bugis and Peninsula examples that I do not know.

[kai]

Hello Alan,

I do believe some of the Bugis and Peninsula examples are kemuning, but I don't really know, because the kemuning I have seen and handled most of has been only as big as a jejeran, and nearly always stained. It is entirely possible that there are other local woods used in these Bugis and Peninsula examples that I do not know.
Another contributing factor is the climate (in addition to the local growing conditions) which can have a pronounced effect on such figured woods: e. g. #9 seems to show the effect of a more pronounced monsoonal climate like in northern Malaya but the results on the wood can be much stronger. Will add pics later.

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

I think I'm missing your point here Kai.

We can find figure such as fiddle back and curly grain of various types in many different trees from the artic circle to the tropics.

One of the major types of curly figure is what we call compression grain, this is where you get figure as the result of constant prevailing winds, or it can occur adjacent to a large branch, where it will often finish up as feather crotch or one of the other crotch variants.

Genetics can also play a role in providing fancy figure, and there also seems to be a strng argument for mineral uptake from the soil having an influence.

What I am saying here is all opinion that I have picked up from being around cabinet makers, stock makers, and musical instrument makers for most of my life. It is if you like, "trade belief".

To the best of my knowledge the academics who study this type of thing have not yet come up with any definite reasons for the formation of fancy figure in wood, about all they seem to be able to say is that there are many reasons for this occurrence of fancy grain, and those reasons are not yet fully understood..

Can you expand on your statement, especially the effect that a monsoonal climate can have in creating a curly grain?

[kai]

Hello Alan,

I wasn't referring to the usually chatoyant effects you've shown examples of but rather to strongly contrasting woods as in the attached pic (courtesy of rsword). Will post some more links later when I have more time. The latter wood types seem to be actively selected for in N Malaya and are supposed to be the result of more pronounced dry seasons (possibly coupled with harsh growing conditions like on windy cliffs).

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Kai, I see what you're getting at now.

The only theorising that I've come across that relates to colour variations like is that when you get a wide variation in colour in the sap wood what you are looking at is the result of infection or damage to the tree. However, the way in which a log is sawn also has a huge effect on the final material. There is very often a wide colour variation between the sap wood and the heart wood in a tree.

The grain in the material of the example you have shown runs along the width of the wrongko top, from one end to the other. This means that it has been cut from a length of timber that has been sawn from the length of the trunk. A tree grows outwards from its core, so when you have a poor season, or a dry season, or a very good season, you can see this reflected in the growth rings that radiate from the core of the trunk.

Looking at the example that you have posted, Kai, I believe that what we are looking at is the result of the way in which the log was cut. There are several techniques used for cutting a log that will produce different effects in the grain shown in the final plank. The most common technique used to produce fancy grain material is called quarter sawing, a technique that results in the growth rings falling between 80 and 90 degrees to the face of the plank.This is done by first cutting the log into quartersthrough it, and then sawing each of those quarters longitudinally, producing increasingly smaller planks as you move to the outside of the quarter.

If we look at this example, we can see very pale wood at the extreme right, then moving left a darker wood, and at the far left a small touch of pale wood again. The pale wood would be sap wood, and the dark wood would be heart wood. The log that produced the material from which this wrongko was carved was sawn in a way to maximise the colour variation between heart wood and sap wood, and at the same time to maximise the chatoyant effect of the curly grain.

The image of a log cross section might clarify how this can be done.

Then again there are the other factors of genetics and disease.

[Sajen]

Hello Alan,

I wasn't referring to the usually chatoyant effects you've shown examples of but rather to strongly contrasting woods as in the attached pic (courtesy of rsword). Will post some more links later when I have more time. The latter wood types seem to be actively selected for in N Malaya and are supposed to be the result of more pronounced dry seasons (possibly coupled with harsh growing conditions like on windy cliffs).

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

the wood from the sampir you posted seems to be from ketenga wood which so far I know you only have in Malaysia.

Regards,

Detlef

[Battara]

IN the region there is also the nara tree that has a red core and a brown outer wood. Could other trees in the region also have similar characteristics?

[A. G. Maisey]

Other trees all over the world share these characteristics.

All trees have heart wood (the core) and sap wood (the outer wood).

Almost invariably these materials differ in colour.

I've never seen it, but I have been told that the sap wood of black ebony is in fact white.

[drdavid]

Hi Alan, a very instructive line up. I wonder how many timbers the common name Akasia is given to in Indonesia. I think interesting too to think about what Akasia (botanical classification Acacia auriculiformis) is related to botanically. References regard it as the same species as one of the Australian wattles (which itself has at least 5 common names). The Tasmanian blackwood you showed is Acacia Melanoxylon, another of the Acacia family (of which there are 1200 worldwide). I think it would be extremely difficult to pick many of these species from a piece of wood alone.
drd

[A. G. Maisey]

Only the one, I think, David.

Its a very recent timber, dating from probably only about the late 1970's. At that time it started to be planted all over Jawa to green the environment, then a few people tried the trunk base and root area of the tree for wrongkos, and found that it was most suitable for this use. Its not an expensive wood, but it has much to recommend it as a wrongko wood, and at its best the figure will rival any of the traditional woods.

Actually, a lot of people I know refer to wattles as acacias.

I've been around wood all my life, and when I was a kid I had the opportunity to see some truly exquisite cabinet timbers, both native Australian timbers, and exotics that were often in pieces that my dad had in for repair. In fact, I've still got a 1930's bespoke bedroom suite in Italian burl walnut, which has some of the best figure I've ever seen. I've been up close to the custom gunstock game, the custom knife game, and also to wrongko makers and hilt makers in Jawa. However, with all this experience, I don't consider myself at all competent to identify most timbers just from a picture, especially a picture on a computer screen. A few materials are probably pretty easy, but the vast bulk are not. Even with the wood in your hand it can often be very difficult to name what it is that you're holding.