crossbows from the Hermitage

[Spiridonov]

Two German crossbows of second half of XVI century

[Spiridonov]

else

[fernando]

Great pieces.
Those steel handles are a later addition, right?
They look horrible.
Fernando

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding Spiridinov!! What are your observations or notes on these in addition to being German 16th c.? Anything unique about them, such as the handles Fernando has noted?

Best regards,
Jim

[Dmitry]

Alas, we meet again! I saw this very crossbow while in Hermitage this past Summer. Our bus tour of the city allowed for only 2 hours in this amazing museum. :mad:
The room it's displayed in is quite breathtaking, and contains European weapons truly sans pareil !

Correct me if I am wrong, as this is not my area of expertise or interest, but judging by the size of the slot for the projectiles, this piece shot either stones or lead balls?

[katana]

The first crossbow shown is missing its roller nut (holds the 'string' before release via the trigger) Dmitry I think the 'hole' left is what you are mistaking for a stone/ball 'holder'.
The metalwork to which I think you are refering to Fernando, is a spring catch (sprung steel) pivoted on the screw 180 degrees it holts the bolt in place, if firing downwards (without this the bolt will just slide off) Think: shooting down from battlements.
Due to the ornate work on both these crossbows, it is extremely likely they were for hunting. War x-bows tend to be more utilitarian.

Both fantastic pieces.

Regards David

[fernando]

Thank you David; didn't think of that :o .
You see, it's the only part which is not ornated, not in harmony with the rest :shrug: .
Fernando

[fernando]

Thank you David; didn't think of that :o .
You see, it's the only part which is not ornated, not in harmony with the rest :shrug: .
Fernando

I have just had a look to pictures of cross bows, some with same origin and similar decoration as these ones.
None had this catch device. Besides, once they were hunting versions, they would hardly need to be shot in an inclined position, right?
Couldn't have this thing been a later addition?
Fernando

[katana]

I have just had a look to pictures of cross bows, some with same origin and similar decoration as these ones.
None had this catch device. Besides, once they were hunting versions, they would hardly need to be shot in an inclined position, right?
Couldn't have this thing been a later addition?
Fernando


Hi Fernando :) ,
it could be a later addition....but some hunting crossbows could be used from horseback. The rack and pinion 'cocking' device would enable reloading without dismounting, which this particular crossbow uses.

All the best
David

[katana]

Hi 'Nando,
here is another hunting crossbow, German circa 1590 that is in the V&A museum. Notice the screw....it would have no other function than to 'hold' the spring catch ....which now seems to be missing.

Best
David

.

[fernando]

Is that dark spot the same thing?
This is a nice Bavarian specimen from the Dresden Museum
Fernando

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[fernando]

This one apparently has a different mechanism, probably because is a more 'modern' specimen.
Dated end XVII century, belonged to the Portuguese Dukes of Bragança.
Fernando

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[fernando]

But i bet you can't identify the system of this one ;) .
This is a Portuguese crossbowman, made in bronze of Benin, dated XV century.
You can easily discern the 'armatoste' hanging from his belt, the devise used to arm ('cock')the crossbow.
I am so envious it belongs to the London British Museum :mad: :shrug: .
Fernando

.

[katana]

Hi 'Nando,
the first crossbow has the earlier 'peg' release mechanism....as the draw weights increased (the energy required to pull the string back to the 'locked position) , as crossbow prods (bow) evolved....the 'peg' became obsolete. This was because the pressure of the string prevented the 'peg' from being 'pulled' down (via the trigger) to 'release' the string.
The 'dot' could indeed be where a screw/nail/ rivet held the 'catch'.... perhaps the rust marks where it once was....or the corroded remains.

The second crossbow has a 'fold up' aiming sight ....its difficult to see but it may have 'incorporated' into the design a 'catch'.

The bronze sculpture is most interesting, as you might know, I have always liked Benin bronze art......my avatar is the clue :) . The 'cocking' device you termed the 'armatoste' is known as the 'belt and claw' in Britain ....your term sounds better ;)
I did know that the Portugese introduced the crossbow to the people of Benin ....whose ruler saw the millitary advantage immediately. Unfortunately I have not been able to find images of the African useage or examples. I found this interesting though..........

".........The Portuguese arrived late in Ewuare’s reign, and he is the first oba to be linked with wealth and power derived from coastal trade. In Edo oral history, Ewuare is credited with obtaining the royal garments of coral (ivie ebo) and red flannel cloth (ododo) that were among the new luxury goods imported to Benin. According to legend, Ewuare traveled to the palace of Olokun, the god of the waters and prosperity, and stole the deity’s spiritually charged coral garments.
The Portuguese also added crossbows and firearms to Benin’s arsenal; however, the use of these weapons was limited to the oba and his commanders. In Benin’s visual arts, the Portuguese are strongly associated with Olokun and frequently appear alongside mudfish, crocodiles, snakes, and other beings that traverse between water and land, a trait shared by Portuguese seafaring merchants............."

All the best
David