Introducing...

[BluErf]

...a piece of contemporary Balinese work - Bhairava.

Captures the essense, I think. :)

[David]

beautiful....

[BluErf]

I showed this hilt to one of my colleagues, who worships Shiva, and she could recognize that the hilt represented Bhairava. She told me that Monday was Shiva's day (I don't know anything about this), and it so happened that the day I showed it to her was a Monday, so she was understandably happy about the coincidence. :)

She shared that the right foot turned backwards was a sign of demonic power. Since Bhairava is a wrathful aspect of Shiva, and kills demons, the posture was not inappropriate. Notice the demon face under that backward facing foot. The skulls of the demons he killed were strung together and worn round his neck and limbs. One of the skulls belonged to Brahma. He has a third eye which is usually closed, until the moment when he will destroy the world.

Notice that instead of Garuda behind his headdress, it is Kala. I believe Kala's creation was also related to Shiva. At the centre of the back of his belt, the motif looked like the one-eyed guardian - Bintulu.

The other thing I found out was from a website. It said that Bhairava ripped off one of the heads of Brahma with his left thumbnail. Looking at the long vicious looking thumbnails of this Bhairava, it seems possible. :)

I don't know the name of the mudra he is displaying.

[Marcokeris]

Bali or Madura hit:confused:

But very very nice work :)

[Marcokeris]

Bali or Madura hit:confused:

But very very nice work :)

[drdavid]

Very nice work on this hilt. Is it bone or ivory?
Drd

[David]

Very nice work on this hilt. Is it bone or ivory?
Drd
I think i can safely say it is ivory Dr. D. I can see the grain patterns in the photos. I would say that they did a very nice job adding age color to this piece. Do you know what they used Kai Wee?
Marco, why do you think this is a Madura hilt?

[BluErf]

It's ivory. I don't think this hilt qualifies as Madurese... :)

[BluErf]

I think i can safely say it is ivory Dr. D. I can see the grain patterns in the photos. I would say that they did a very nice job adding age color to this piece. Do you know what they used Kai Wee?
Marco, why do you think this is a Madura hilt?

Tumeric! :) I have no idea why they stain it... maybe to make it look warmer. Anyway, as mentioned in the 1st post, this piece is contemporary (i.e. current period). :)

[David]

i'm pretty sure they stain it to give it a look of aged ivory. :shrug: :)

[KuKulzA28]

That is amazing. I may be an enthusiast of the swords of China, the simple and brutal machete-like blades of the archipelago, and the close quarters weapons of India.... but when I see something like this, I can see how there is more to a keris than a mystical, pointy dagger. Dagger-type side-arms don't need a hilt like that, keris do. I hope you hold onto that. It's a treasure and an antique of tomorrow's.

[Marcokeris]

...Marco, why do you think this is a Madura hilt?

I think the hit (not selut) could be also a Madura hit for the very great quality of the carving that remenber me that some years ago i saw in Jawa some amazing ivory hit works full of incredible details (mybe too mach).
These hits had been made by a living artist in Madura . Some hits had Sumatra pattern, other Bugis and one (incredible :eek: carved on two/three different level from surface down in deep) Bali.
Of course this is only a my personal "flash" impression born seeing a "photo"

[drdavid]

I'm a babe in the woods i can tell, I saw the grain you mentioned David but when I saw the color I thought if this is new ivory it shouldn't be that color :o
Tumeric really is an all purpose spice
drd

[BluErf]

i'm pretty sure they stain it to give it a look of aged ivory. :shrug: :)

Yes, and that too... :) Haha :) But I have heard that at least in Sumatra and N Malay peninsula, some hilts were traditionally stained when newly made, to impart the desired colour. For e.g. tajong hilts may be stained black to look more aggressive, Sumatran ivory hilts may be stained dark brown, possibly for aesthetic reasons, and some of these hilts have lost their dark stain over time.

[BluErf]

I think the hit (not selut) could be also a Madura hit for the very great quality of the carving that remenber me that some years ago i saw in Jawa some amazing ivory hit works full of incredible details (mybe too mach).
These hits had been made by a living artist in Madura . Some hits had Sumatra pattern, other Bugis and one (incredible :eek: carved on two/three different level from surface down in deep) Bali.
Of course this is only a my personal "flash" impression born seeing a "photo"

Hi Marco,

We need more artists of this level of dedication and talent. :)

[Sajen]

A masterpice of carving this hilt, congrats!
Bali have still great artists of carving so this hilt don't need to be a Madura work.
sajen

[David]

I think the hit (not selut) could be also a Madura hit for the very great quality of the carving that remenber me that some years ago i saw in Jawa some amazing ivory hit works full of incredible details (mybe too mach).
These hits had been made by a living artist in Madura . Some hits had Sumatra pattern, other Bugis and one (incredible :eek: carved on two/three different level from surface down in deep) Bali.
Of course this is only a my personal "flash" impression born seeing a "photo"
Ah, i understand you better now Marco. Clearly this hilt is stylistically a Bali hilt. That is what i am referring to when i say that it is Bali. Where the artist actually lives might be another issue, but to me this is a Bali hilt regardless of the island it's maker live on because it seems clear that was the carvers intention. I do agree with Sajen that there are still many fine carvers on Bali. Perhaps Kai Wee knows more about the residency of the carver.

[BluErf]

This hilt was brought over by a runner from Bali, so I guess we all concluded that it was from Bali. The workmanship ties in with what we have seen from Bali as well. We also agreed that this is not an old hilt, hence the contemporary tag. :)

[A. G. Maisey]

I don't think there can be any doubt that this hilt is Balinese work.

The selut is certainly Balinese work. It is not a "look-alike". Madura work does not look anything like this selut.

The hilt itself does not seem to bear any of the indicators of Madura work. It has a flow and coherency that points to original work, rather than a copy. Madura carvers are very good at copying, if they have an original, they can copy it very well, but there is always a stiffness to the copy that is not seen in original work.

The very dark ivory hilt is an old Javanese one that came from a pedang --- it is a keris hilt, but it had been fitted to a pedang many years ago.

The yellowish ivory hilt is a copy of this original that I commissioned from Madura.

The two ivory carvings are whales teeth that I think bear ample evidence of the current skill of Balinese carving.

Ivory can be stained in a number of ways. Tumeric will do it, tea is a very old Chinese method, small pieces can be patinated by forcing a goose to swallow it --- forged netsukes are often done in this way --- but the most common method used in Jawa and Bali is by smoking the carving over a fire of coconut husks.

[BluErf]

Wow! I love the Ganesha carving! The natural flow of the body parts and plants is quite amazing.

The Madurese copy of the Javanese original is very good too, almost indistinguishable. :)

[Battara]

Impressive work! :D

[Marcokeris]

Other Bali hit

[A. G. Maisey]

Impressive.

[Sajen]

Simply beautiful!

[Rick]

Heavens above !!!
How is the gold attached to the ivory ?
Is it a sheet covering the carving that is then formed and crimped ?

[Battara]

Impressive work.

[BluErf]

Great hilt! :)

I love the natural flow of the figure! And the gold work is very nicely done too. Selut looks very solid. :)

Was this based on the example in the Invincible Keris?

[Marcokeris]

Great hilt! :)

I love the natural flow of the figure! And the gold work is very nicely done too. Selut looks very solid. :)

Was this based on the example in the Invincible Keris?

I don't know.... one indonesian friend showed me this hit two mounth ago during my last trip to Bali. The price was very very hight (gold 18 karat). I never have win a lottery :shrug: so...i did only some pics :D

[A. G. Maisey]

In old examples of this type of work that I have seen the gold was held in place with jabung.

In newer examples a super-glue type adhesive was used, Alteco is a favourite.

[David]

The craftsmanship is lovely, but i'm not so sure that this work is to my tastes. So, is this an old ivory hilt that has more recently been adorned with gold and jewels. The ivory looks old with a nice patina, but the gold work looks new. Or perhaps it is all new and the ivory is just aged this way, but it doesn't seems so. If it is as i suggest, an older ivory hilt recently adorn that i have to ask why? Eye-candy for wealthy collectors? Personally i have the urge to scrape all the gold and jewels off to reveal the beauty of the ivory beneath. :shrug: :)

[Rick]

Thanks Alan .

[A. G. Maisey]

It would be recent David. The patination is no trick at all. Even the appearance of old ivory with a judicial crack here and there is no trick.

Personally I like this sort of thing very much. As Marco says, this style of work is very expensive, but it is often exquisite.

Don't get me wrong:- I like simplicity too, and I like something that only prioritises the excellence of carving, but in really topline Bali dress the very best is most often really over the top. Its a cultural thing:- understatement is just not the Balinese way. Perhaps our natural inclination might be for quiet excellence, but that just doesn't fit with the exhuberance of Balinese art.

[David]

Personally I like this sort of thing very much. As Marco says, this style of work is very expensive, but it is often exquisite.

Don't get me wrong:- I like simplicity too, and I like something that only prioritises the excellence of carving, but in really topline Bali dress the very best is most often really over the top. Its a cultural thing:- understatement is just not the Balinese way. Perhaps our natural inclination might be for quiet excellence, but that just doesn't fit with the exhuberance of Balinese art.
Well, i would say that i completely dislike this sort of thing either. Here are a couple more examples of this type of work from the Adrien Noe collection. I'm pretty fond of the one done up in silver. :)

[David]

Oh that's funny, i just realized that the first one i posted is the same as the one that Marco posted. :o Well, at least now we know (or at least Marco does) where part of the collection ended up. :)
I like it a little better in the pics i posted (goes to show what good photography can do), but i still prefer the silver one for my own sensibilities. :)

[David]

And here's one more that i believe is gold over ebony. :)

[David]

It would be recent David. The patination is no trick at all. Even the appearance of old ivory with a judicial crack here and there is no trick.
If this is truly from the Noe Collection i guess the work can't be too recent. As far as i know he amassed most of his collection in the 1950s-60s. :shrug:

[Rick]

Well, i would say that i completely dislike this sort of thing either. Here are a couple more examples of this type of work from the Adrien Noe collection. I'm pretty fond of the one done up in silver. :)

Thanks David, for the different set of pictures of that hilt .
Now I get how the gold work is attached . :)

[Sajen]

The craftsmanship is lovely, but i'm not so sure that this work is to my tastes. So, is this an old ivory hilt that has more recently been adorned with gold and jewels. The ivory looks old with a nice patina, but the gold work looks new. Or perhaps it is all new and the ivory is just aged this way, but it doesn't seems so. If it is as i suggest, an older ivory hilt recently adorn that i have to ask why? Eye-candy for wealthy collectors? Personally i have the urge to scrape all the gold and jewels off to reveal the beauty of the ivory beneath. :shrug: :)

Hello David,

why do you think that the gold work is more recent? I am not sure that it is like this. :shrug:
I am nearly sure that you can find in old collections hilt's like this which are completly original. Or I am wrong by this? :confused:

sajen

[A. G. Maisey]

I think you're saying that this hilt is perhaps not so recent, aren't you David?

Yes, it may not be made the day before yesterday, and with that sort of provenance it could date back a little, but this style of hilt is extremely rare amongst old pieces, and not at all uncommon amongst more recent pieces. I think I've only ever seen two of this style that definitely dated to pre-WWII, and neither of them were as refined as the dozens that I have seen that are from current production.

But still, my remarks on false aging are still valid. They may or may not apply to this piece, but it is certain that all which appears to be old in ivory, need not necessarily be so.

[David]

I think you're saying that this hilt is perhaps not so recent, aren't you David?

Yes, it may not be made the day before yesterday, and with that sort of provenance it could date back a little, but this style of hilt is extremely rare amongst old pieces, and not at all uncommon amongst more recent pieces. I think I've only ever seen two of this style that definitely dated to pre-WWII, and neither of them were as refined as the dozens that I have seen that are from current production.

But still, my remarks on false aging are still valid. They may or may not apply to this piece, but it is certain that all which appears to be old in ivory, need not necessarily be so.
Oh, i have no doubt that your remarks are correct on the aging of new ivory. I am not trying to suggest that this hilt has any great age, but if it was collected in the 50s-60s it could 50-60 years old. The Noe collection, or at least the people who were dealing with the sale of this collection dated this piece to mid 19th century, a dating i am somewhat suspicious of.
Sajen, my statement about the gold being newer than the ivory was more based on the way it looks in the first photos posted of the hilt. I get a different impression from the second set of photos i posted. :)

[Marcokeris]

Oh that's funny, i just realized that the first one i posted is the same as the one that Marco posted. :o Well, at least now we know (or at least Marco does) where part of the collection ended up. :)
I like it a little better in the pics i posted (goes to show what good photography can do), but i still prefer the silver one for my own sensibilities. :)
Thanks David for nice pics. Yes i think the two ivory/gold hits are twins made by the same artist. (when i'll be in Bali again i'll try to know something more about.....if i try )
About the way (before or after)to put (or to work) the gold /silver over the hit ....
...i have a very very very old (nyamba?) hit with over a little piece of something like white gold (?). This hit could be very interesting for discussion..i'll try to do some pics soon

[David]

Thanks David for nice pics. Yes i think the two ivory/gold hits are twins made by the same artist. (when i'll be in Bali again i'll try to know something more about.....if i try )
Marco, do you really think they are twins by the same artist. I am pretty sure they are the same exact hilt. The Noe Collection was sold off back in 1995 AFAIK and i am sure that parts of it are all over the place.

[Sajen]

Marco, do you really think they are twins by the same artist. I am pretty sure they are the same exact hilt. The Noe Collection was sold off back in 1995 AFAIK and i am sure that parts of it are all over the place.


Hello David,

it seems to be the same hilt, look the crack in the forefinger of the right hand.

sajen

[Marcokeris]

Marco, do you really think they are twins by the same artist. I am pretty sure they are the same exact hilt. The Noe Collection was sold off back in 1995 AFAIK and i am sure that parts of it are all over the place.
David i have seen better (sorry...i'm not young ... my brain sometimes goes in other places :o ) you are right! the hits are the same!! Mr. Noe had really very good eyes!

[A. G. Maisey]

Here's one of mine that I forgot I had; its silver over buffalo horn.

The other one is from the Neka Musium in Bali. I was there a few months back. Very difficult to photograph things because of all the reflections and deep shadows but I did get a lot of pics of hilts and other bits and pieces. When I get a chance I'll make them all available in my site.

[Sajen]

And here an example from dark wood with silver, some fast taken pictures.

[Paul Duffy]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for sharing your photos of the hilts,a wonderful selection.

[David]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for sharing your photos of the hilts,a wonderful selection.
Glad you are enjoying them Paul and welcome to the forum. :)