Kattara for comments

[TVV]

I was lucky enough to win this kattara on eBay about a month ago and it has finally arrived, which enables me to share pictures.
Scabbard and hilt are in poor shape, but at least they retain most of the original fittings and leather. As you can see the fittings are quite simple - no silver, nothing fancy.
Same can be said for the blade - it looks like a 19th century trade blade.
There are plenty of markings, identical on both sides - at the base of the blade there are gurda markings, with something in the middle - does anyone know what it is or what it attempts to represent? At the end of the fullers there is also a small cross. All the markings seem to have been added to the blade locally.
Do you think I am correct about this being a trade blade imported fro, Europe, or would you say this is a local blade?

I am very happy to have added this to my other kattara with a curved blade (most likely an imported shashka blade), and I appreciate everyone's comments.

Regards,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Great kattara Teodor! I've always found these so interesting, as a sword which seemed quintessently based on simplicity, they represent profound historical interest, especially concerning trade and the Arabs.

Naturally these are instantly recognized as the sword of Oman, who had the Sultanate on the island of Zanzibar, one of the most bustling trade centers of the 19th century. From there slaving caravans would advance into the depths of Africa, in the commerce of slaves, gold and ivory. It is my understanding that in regions beyond Kenya they likely interfaced with other traders and caravans coming in from regions in Ethiopia and westward on trans Saharan caravans.

I have always considered it intriguing that the well known sabres of the Manding in Mali have simple cylindrical hilts of similar form to the Omani kattara. One of the key points in trade routes from the Sahara was of course another familiar term in high adventure, Timbuktu, in Mali.

Also, note the spatulate rounded tip on the kattara, and compare with the blades almost unequivacably found on the takouba of the Tuareg, it is also rounded. Trade blades moved from ports of arrival in the east off the Red Sea as well as possibly via the Zanzibar trade, and to the east. Other points of entry are of course from the north, but it is interesting to note this feature's presence.

I would think this is likely a trade blade, which I believe often arrived blank from various centers, and the markings are of course native interpretations typically thought of as quality indicators, but in native parlance, suggested power in the blade. The 'gurda' marks are imitating the well known 'eyelash' or 'sickle' marks of Genoa and Styria, often on many German and of course Caucasian blades (from which the term gurda is derived).

Probably end of the 19th, into the 20th, and these were always a proud possession of Arab traders and merchants. Interesting detail in "Book of the Sword" under 'Zanzibar swords' and the swordplay of the Arabs, describing the leaps and slashes,

All the best,
Jim

[TVV]

Jim,

Thank you very much for another thorough and outstanding reply - I appreciate the effort you put in your posts.

I agree that the topic of Trans-Saharan trade is fascinating. According to Elgood, the straight trade blades entered the Arab market through Egypt, where some of them were of course also used on the Sudanese saifs, which we call kaskaras. Spring on the other hand shows evidence about blades enetring from the other side of Africa, and being distributed all over the Northern part of the continent from Kano, nowadays Nigeria. The Omanis were certainly not afraid to venture deep into Africa, as evidenced by Tippu Tib's trips to Eastern Congo.

This is a question I have always had on the Omani kattara hilt - did the shape travel from West Africa to Oman, or vice versa? And what about the other type of kattaras with hilts, more like the hilts of old Arab broadswords (and not dissimilar to Hispano-Moresque swords? I remember reading somewhere, I think it was Elgood's book that these hilts, which are generally considered to be of an older variety, originated in the Omani enclave in Baluchistan, rather than in Oman proper. Does anyone have a hypothesis on this topic?

Best regards,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Teodor,
Absolutely my pleasure as always. Good on noting the term sa'if used for the kaskara, which recalls the years I have spent trying to discover where in the world the term kaskara came from. Nobody in the Sudan, or Eritrea for that matter has ever heard the word, and I have had this researched all the way to the University of Khartoum!

What has always fascinated me is that the takouba and the kaskara, both North African broadsword cousins, have remained independant forms despite the constant traverse of caravans, nomadic tribal interaction and the entrance of trade blades from varying points of entry from varying directions.

The Tuareg swords have the rounded tip, the kaskaras typically have a spear point. The hilts remain simple yet quite different. The Hausas, from the farthest western regions in Nigeria and the prevalent trade center of Kano, were known for thier kaskara work.

The question of cross cultural diffusion and in which direction did influence move is a tough one and well placed. In the study of anthropology and archaeology these kinds of questions are resolved with dated and provenanced remains. With the movement of portable trade items such as weapons, it is hard unless soundly provenanced and dated examples are avialable. In general, one can follow the development of trade and colonial development by period in examining such examples.

The earlier Omani hilts may well have developed in Baluchistan as Elgood notes, and I of course subscribe heavily to his always well researched observations. These hilts are of the Muslim drooping quillon type hilt that seem to be evolved from these types of Hispano Moresque forms of the medieval period. It is also essentially a hilt with such features well emplaced in Central Asia (the paluaor from Afghanistan) to similar types in the Deccan (see Elgood, "Hindu Arms and Ritual").

In my opinion, Africa, particularly North Africa is what I would call 'reflective' in most situations. That is the weapons seem to reflect styles from foreign cultures, rather than their styles influencing others. This does not hold true necessarily in the obvious influence of ancient Egyptian weapons which have clearly influenced weapons across many African tribal cultures, and perhaps into the Middle East in ancient times.

For the most part, I would say weapons coming into Africa have influenced the forms there, not vice versa. Kaskaras and takoubas evolved from the broadswords of early Islam, becoming prevalent as trade blades began to come into Africa. The so called 'Zanzibar' sword became the s'boula of Morocco probably from basilards from Italian trade in Tunis; the koummya probably derived its hilt from the Venetian cinqueda, again Italian traders; the 'nimcha' (Moroccan sa'if) from Arab sa'if in turn from Italian hilt configurations (storte etc.). The double blade 'haladie' of Sudan is from the madu madu of India and known also as the Syrian knife, entered via Red Sea trade. The flyssa, evolved from Ottoman yataghans and in degree via that from early Meditteranean swords.

These are the ones I can think of offhand, but I cannot think of an example of African weapon that has turned up elsewhere . Im sure somebody will think of one though :)

Ramblin on as usual, and just expressing thoughts.
These really are great swords, and seem to have only recently begun to turn up. When I first found one about 10 years ago I thought I'd found Excalibur!

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Teodor,
Absolutely my pleasure as always. Good on noting the term sa'if used for the kaskara, which recalls the years I have spent trying to discover where in the world the term kaskara came from. Nobody in the Sudan, or Eritrea for that matter has ever heard the word, and I have had this researched all the way to the University of Khartoum!

What has always fascinated me is that the takouba and the kaskara, both North African broadsword cousins, have remained independant forms despite the constant traverse of caravans, nomadic tribal interaction and the entrance of trade blades from varying points of entry from varying directions.

The Tuareg swords have the rounded tip, the kaskaras typically have a spear point. The hilts remain simple yet quite different. The Hausas, from the farthest western regions in Nigeria and the prevalent trade center of Kano, were known for thier kaskara work.

The question of cross cultural diffusion and in which direction did influence move is a tough one and well placed. In the study of anthropology and archaeology these kinds of questions are resolved with dated and provenanced remains. With the movement of portable trade items such as weapons, it is hard unless soundly provenanced and dated examples are avialable. In general, one can follow the development of trade and colonial development by period in examining such examples.

The earlier Omani hilts may well have developed in Baluchistan as Elgood notes, and I of course subscribe heavily to his always well researched observations. These hilts are of the Muslim drooping quillon type hilt that seem to be evolved from these types of Hispano Moresque forms of the medieval period. It is also essentially a hilt with such features well emplaced in Central Asia (the paluaor from Afghanistan) to similar types in the Deccan (see Elgood, "Hindu Arms and Ritual").

In my opinion, Africa, particularly North Africa is what I would call 'reflective' in most situations. That is the weapons seem to reflect styles from foreign cultures, rather than their styles influencing others. This does not hold true necessarily in the obvious influence of ancient Egyptian weapons which have clearly influenced weapons across many African tribal cultures, and perhaps into the Middle East in ancient times.

For the most part, I would say weapons coming into Africa have influenced the forms there, not vice versa. Kaskaras and takoubas evolved from the broadswords of early Islam, becoming prevalent as trade blades began to come into Africa. The so called 'Zanzibar' sword became the s'boula of Morocco probably from basilards from Italian trade in Tunis; the koummya probably derived its hilt from the Venetian cinqueda, again Italian traders; the 'nimcha' (Moroccan sa'if) from Arab sa'if in turn from Italian hilt configurations (storte etc.). The double blade 'haladie' of Sudan is from the madu madu of India and known also as the Syrian knife, entered via Red Sea trade. The flyssa, evolved from Ottoman yataghans and in degree via that from early Meditteranean swords.

These are the ones I can think of offhand, but I cannot think of an example of African weapon that has turned up elsewhere . Im sure somebody will think of one though :)

Ramblin on as usual, and just expressing thoughts.
These really are great swords, and seem to have only recently begun to turn up. When I first found one about 10 years ago I thought I'd found Excalibur!

All the best,
Jim

Not being entirely sure where to post this missive on Omani Short Battle Swords I thought why not aim it at the top man !
Aim.
The aim of this letter is to place the time link and motive for the Omani Short Battle Sword previously considered to be 16th century and lately suggested as 10th century though with little data and proof to that claim.
I intend to show due cause for its adaptation and a time scale bracket in which this occurred.
The reader will no doubt be perplexed by the myriad of seemingly religious and political sliding doors opening and closing in the region in the last 1500 years (see notes at foot of letter) and it is easy to see how a weapon such as this has become shrouded in mystery. Reference has also been made to the Nasrid sword however what follows is I hope a compelling political and religion and therefore geo political based argument which far outweighs the unseeming adoption of a Spanish sword from thousands of miles distant across virtually impassable deserts seas and mountains at that time. The Nasrid sword that has very little in common with the design but more importantly no visible motive or connection to the Omani Short Battle Sword.
The Topkapi museum holds the key. The Abbasid 9th Century Sword in their collection is compared to the Omani Short as follows;
1. Both are two edged Islamic Arab battle swords.
2. Both blades have an integral tang with an added pommel or cap.
3. Both have three holes in the handle which is similarly constructed with rivets.
4. Both weapons have quillons.
5. Both blades are wing shaped in cross section.
6. Both blades culminate in a point.
7. Both blades (though not all examples of the Omani sword) have the golden dot or dots on the blade. The dot in Islamic geometry is an important centre of the universe construct.
8. Both hilts are topped with a cap in the case of the Abbasid and an Islamic arch pommel on the Omani.
9. Neither blade has risers nor fullers.
10. Both blades are stiff and generally non flexible.
11. Both handles are octagonal in cross section *

Shield .
Though no shield is studied to accompany the Omani Sword it can be imagined that if the sword originates from the Abbasid then it is there that a comparative shield design should be studied. I have not, however, seen a shield emanating from the timescale suggested.

Hilt.
In studying the hilt a conundrum appears in the form of the distinctive collar absent in the Abbasid but present in the Omani. It is suggested that this is a strengthener giving rigidity to the turned down quillons and the entire lower half of the hilt of which it is part. Certainly without the collar the hilt would be much weaker and I suggest that this was therefore part of the redesign along with the Islamic Pommel both key to identifying this sword as Omani Ibadi. Note that the simple /\/\/\/\/\/\/\ design around the collar appears on most Omani Short swords and is likely to be Omani original reflecting once again the austerity in allowable decoration but also a distinct design as the general issue trademark of the Omani Ibadi troops.
A similar hilt appears on a Saudi sword though seemingly stretched to form a long handle on a longer blade. That sword may well be related, though is for now, outside the scope of this letter.

Time scale.
As can be seen by the short history Oman converted to Islam in the mid 7th Century and adopted the sect style Ibadi (Ibathi) in the 8th Century. They were attacked subjugated and punished by the Abbasid dynasty in the 8th and 9th centuries which sent troops from Baghdad.
"Jabir ibn Zayd, had come originally to Iraq from Oman and he returned to Oman as their leader". A highly successful leader he would certainly have seen the weapons used in the Abbasid centre, Baghdad, and could have personally transmitted the technology to Oman in the early to mid 8th Century.
Therefor the Abbasids were in Oman suppressing the Ibadis and trying to hold the territory and using Abbasid weapons.
It puts the sword in Oman in the 8th and 9th Centuries.
Why would the Omanis not have adopted such an excellent sword as the Abbasid? This was the perfect opportunity to adopt such a weapon either capturing or adopting the sword directly as a result of coming into contact with it on the battlefield or even earlier since Jabr Ibn Zayed had seen it in use in Baghdad armories. In taking over a country from an invader it was customary for the winner to take all. It is entirely feasible that Jabir Ibn Zayds men adopted the Abbasid sword in the 8th Century(or even before)
"Jabir ibn Zayd's presence in Oman strengthened the existing Ibadi communities; in less than a century, the sect took over the country from the Sunni garrison that ruled it in the caliph's name".
Sword Design.
Abbasid delight in decoration versus Omani Ibadi staunch acceptance of a more austere less ostentatious approach may well be the reason for a more severe looking weapon and perhaps the novel Islamic design to the hollow Pommel. I suggest that the Islamic arch pommel and turned down quillons and the collar are all practical and religious additions to the weapon. Blade length may be slightly less than the Baghdad original however this is down to user stature as simply The Omani fighters were smaller in stature. The Pommel is spiked and could be used in close combat and the turned down quillons are for twisting the opponents sword from the hand. In other words this is an Ibadi Omani Sword designed and modified around the Abbasid example.

Conclusion . " The Omani Short Battle Sword" is designed around the 8th/ 9th Century Abbasid Sword with a few additions / changes to Quillons and Pommel and Collar. It was introduced due to religious and political differences driven by the caliphs in Baghdad on behalf of the Abbasid Dynasty and adapted by the Ibadi Omanis, thereafter, it froze in design for centuries perhaps up to the 19th Century though perhaps by the late 17th Century a new long Kattara possibly an Omani / African design began to exert its influence.
Ibrahim Al Balooshi
therugspot@hotmail.com
www.fortantiques.net
Notes;
Short History Of Early Oman and the regions adjacent.
In the Islamic period, the prosperity of the gulf continued to be linked to markets in Mesopotamia. Accordingly, after 750 the gulf prospered because Baghdad became the seat of the caliph and the main center of Islamic civilization. Islam brought great prosperity to Iraq during this period, thus increasing the demand for foreign goods. As a result, gulf merchants roamed farther and farther afield. By the year 1000, they were traveling regularly to China and beyond, and their trading efforts were instrumental in spreading Islam, first to India and then to Indonesia and Malaysia.
The Islam they spread, however, was often sectarian. Eastern Arabia was a center for both Kharijites and Shia; in the Middle Ages, the Ismaili Shia faith constituted a particularly powerful force in the gulf. Ismailis originated in Iraq, but many moved to the gulf in the ninth century to escape the Sunni authorities. Whereas the imam was central to the Ismaili tradition, the group also recognized what they referred to as "missionaries" (dua; sing., dai), figures who spoke for the imam and played major political roles. One of these missionaries was Hamdan Qarmat, who sent a group from Iraq to Bahrain in the ninth century to establish an Ismaili community. From their base in Bahrain, Qarmat's followers, who became known as Qarmatians, sent emissaries throughout the Muslim world.
The Qarmatians are known for their attacks on their opponents, including raids on Baghdad and the sack of Mecca and Medina in 930. For much of the tenth century, the Ismailis of Bahrain were the most powerful force in the Persian Gulf and the Middle East. They controlled the coast of Oman and collected tribute from the caliph in Baghdad as well as from a rival Ismaili imam in Cairo, whom they did not recognize.
By the eleventh century, Ismaili power had waned. The Qarmatians succumbed to the same forces that had earlier threatened centers on the gulf coast--the ambitions of strong leaders in Mesopotamia or Persia and the incursion of tribes from the interior. In 985 armies of the Buyids, a Persian dynasty, drove the Ismailis out of Iraq, and in 988 Arab tribes drove the Ismailis out of Al Ahsa, an oasis they controlled in eastern Arabia. Thereafter, Ismaili presence in the gulf faded, and in the twentieth century the sect virtually disappeared.
Ibadis figured less prominently than the Shia in the spread of Islam. A stable community, the Ibadi sect's large following in Oman has helped to distinguish Oman from its gulf neighbors. Ibadis originated in Iraq, but in the early eighth century, when the caliph's representative began to suppress the Ibadis, many left the area. Their leader at the time, Jabir ibn Zayd, had come to Iraq from Oman, so he returned there. Jabir ibn Zayd's presence in Oman strengthened the existing Ibadi communities; in less than a century, the sect took over the country from the Sunni garrison that ruled it in the caliph's name. Their leader, Al Julanda ibn Masud, became the Ibadi imam of Oman.
In the Ibadi tradition, imams are elected by a council of religious scholars, who select the leader that can best defend the community militarily and rule it according to religious principles. Whereas Sunnis and Shia traditionally have focused on a single leader, referred to as caliph or imam, Ibadis permit regions to have their own imams. For instance, there have been concurrent Ibadi imams in Iraq, Oman, and North Africa.
Because of the strong sense of community among Ibadis, which resembles tribal feelings of community, they have predominated in the interior of Oman and to a lesser degree along the coast. In 752, for example, a new line of Sunni caliphs in Baghdad conquered Oman and killed the Ibadi imam, Al Julanda. Other Ibadi imams arose and reestablished the tradition in the interior, but extending their rule to the coastal trading cities met opposition. The inland empires of Persia and Iraq depended on customs duties from East-West trade, much of which passed by Oman. Accordingly, the caliph and his successors could not allow the regional coastal cities out of their control.
As a result, Oman acquired a dual nature. Ibadi leaders usually controlled the mountainous interior while, for the most part, foreign powers controlled the coast. People in the coastal cities have often been foreigners or have had considerable contact with foreigners because of trade. Coastal Omanis have profited from their involvement with outsiders, whereas Omanis in the interior have tended to reject the foreign presence as an intrusion into the small, tightly knit Ibadi community. Ibadi Islam has thus preserved some of the hostility toward outsiders that was a hallmark of the early Kharijites.
While the imam concerned himself with the interior, the Omani coast remained under the control of Persian rulers. The Buyids in the late tenth century eventually extended their influence down the gulf as far as Oman. In the 1220s and 1230s, another group, the Zangids--based in Mosul, Iraq--sent troops to the Omani coast; around 1500 the Safavids, an Iranian dynasty, pushed into the gulf as well. The Safavids followed the Twelver Shia tradition and imposed Shia beliefs on those under their rule. Thus, Twelver communities were established in Bahrain and to a lesser extent in Kuwait.
Oman's geographic location gave it access not only to the Red Sea trade but also to ships skirting the coast of Africa. By the end of the fifteenth century, however, a Persian ruler, the shaykh of Hormuz, profited most from this trade. The shaykh controlled the Persian port that lay directly across the gulf from Oman, and he collected customs duties in the busy Omani ports of Qalhat and Muscat. Ibadi imams continued to rule in the interior, but until Europeans entered the region in the sixteenth century, Ibadi rulers were unable to reclaim the coastal cities from the Iranians.
Data of footnotes as of January 1993.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I was lucky enough to win this kattara on eBay about a month ago and it has finally arrived, which enables me to share pictures.
Scabbard and hilt are in poor shape, but at least they retain most of the original fittings and leather. As you can see the fittings are quite simple - no silver, nothing fancy.
Same can be said for the blade - it looks like a 19th century trade blade.
There are plenty of markings, identical on both sides - at the base of the blade there are gurda markings, with something in the middle - does anyone know what it is or what it attempts to represent? At the end of the fullers there is also a small cross. All the markings seem to have been added to the blade locally.
Do you think I am correct about this being a trade blade imported fro, Europe, or would you say this is a local blade?

I am very happy to have added this to my other kattara with a curved blade (most likely an imported shashka blade), and I appreciate everyone's comments.

Regards,
Teodor
Very nice swords of Oman... The straight sword is the famous Omani Kattara and the curved better known as an Omani Sayf.

First!! My apologies for shoving in and presenting my Short Omani Battle Sword meanderings on your thread... I hope you dont mind as no offence was meant and I should have made it a separate thread.

It is also a puzzle to me as to how many trade blades appear on Omani hilts... So far I have discovered people with Wootz blades from where?? who knows... and German blades some with possibly fake running wolf stamps and others with weird unknown stamps possibly fake?? I have one with a number on it; not arabic .. english figures ! and some with holed pommels and some not.
Decent blades bend double and retain their straight shape whilst cheap blades stay a bit bent !
The big question is; where did the idea come from and when ? The first indicator date is 1652 when Oman took Zanzibar ( they were very influencial all down the African coast and big in Kenya tradewise.. ) but the fighting technique with this weapon is so markedly different from its predecessor that it cannot be decended from it. The two swords (I mean the Omani Short Battle Sword compared to the long flexible Kattara)are as different as chalk and cheese.
Your sword "The Kattara" The straight one... was designed as a slash and snick fast whip action stand off system... The fighters were 6 feet apart or more ! and fought with a small shield; The Omani Buckler called a Terrs. This shield was used to disarm the oponent by twisting an attacking sword strike from the others hand. It was therefor a fighting system and developed a dance ... This war dance routine was a limbering up exercise before going in to battle so it became a martial art really. Nowadays that fact is shrouded in the dance and people forget its real meaning.
Great swords ~ well done !! :shrug:

[A.alnakkas]

Off topic question to Ibrahim (sorry TVV):

Do the Bani Ka'ab Tribesmen of Oman (particularly the Buraimi region) use the Kattara?

I know that the coastal people of Oman use shamshir's and sabers but always wondered what my distant relatives there use :P

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahim,
I am sorry I overlooked this thread and your amazing and wonderfully detailed post!!! I am reading through your writing and cannot thank you enough for taking the time and care in writing this, and will respond in due course. Outstanding work!!!
All the very best,
Jim

[TVV]

Ibrahim,

No need to apologize, I have been following your thoughts on the evolution of Omani swords with great interest.

My personal thoughts on the adoption of the long Omani broadsword are similar to yours on the adoption of the short sword - I think the form may have entered the Omani aresenal through military contact with the Portuguese. The blade shape of a kattara to me is quite different than the blade shape on a takouba (especially when one considers older examples with a triangular blade) or even that on a kaskara, which has a pointed tip as opposed to the rounded tips on the Omani sword. Therefore an adoption through trophies taken from the Portuguese after the latter were ousted from Muscat seems to be a more logical and direct route than trade links with the African interior.

Further, if the origin of the long kattara was from European broadswords, this would explain why older European maker marks and symbols on sword blades retained an importance well into the 19th century, causing them to be reproduced locally.

As for the curved sabers, I think I read somewhere in Elgood's book that in the mid 19th century, a lot of Caucasian shashka blades made its way into Southern Arabia (connected perhaps to the Circassian diaspora?) and were quickly given local hilts. When I look at the blade on mine, it certainly could have been taken from a shashka.

Regards,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I have read through your magnificent treatise on the Omani short sword and its development, and can only say it is a wonderfully thorough analysis and description of early Islamic history, and in particular that which pertains to Oman. I must confess that it must be obvious that my knowledge in this field of study pales in comparison to what you have shown, and I am most grateful for your sharing of this information here. I also must admit that my notes comparing the earlier style of Omani hilt (Elgood, p.17, fig.2.13; 2.15)to the Nasrid form was entirely free association and suggesting the drooping quillon hilt form had similarity. I should have emphasized the speculation on my part.

I do often make such speculations in hopes of developing more discussion which might support or rebuke the case in point, and admit being caught entirely offguard here as the desired response is to comments of nearly two years ago:) Still, I am absolutely delighted and more than impressed!!

Please help me more clearly understand your reference to the 'Omani short battle sword', I am assuming you are referring to the downturned quillon hilt sword mentioned from Elgood in which I suggested possible Nasrid connection?
Also, I am unclear on which sword in Topkapi you are referring to as Abbasid of the 9th century. In checking "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (the late Dr.Unsal Yucel, Istanbul, 2001) I could not isolate an example corresponding.
Whatever the case, I am very much in accord with your suggestions that the Omani swords were in most probability derived from the Abbasid swords as you well describe and support.

The focus of our discussion here was of course on the later version of the Omani kattara, which as agreed seems to have developed around the 17th century and probably does have distinct associations with the development of the Omani trade in Zanzibar which certainly diffused in Kenya and into trade routes in various networks which traversed the continent. Actually, I think most of our attention was directed to the cylindrical hilt without guard and its similarity to the guardless seme' swords of Kenya and the similar guardless hilts of Mandingo sabres in Mali. Naturally these are again visual comparisons, but placed compellingly by the prevalence of Omani trade on the East Coast of Africa.

It would seem that the profound introduction of trade blades, particularly from Solingen in about the time these 'long kattara' with cylindrical hilts developed, may have led to the simplification of the hilt. The swordplay you describe, using buckler and slashing cuts is well known in India, and in fact even well known in regions as remote as Khevsuria in the Caucusus, where the impressive leaps and parrying have indeed evolved in dancing type performances from genuine martial training. As always, these simple hilt forms could certainly have developed independantly, but the ever present trade routes described offer tempting support to think otherwise. I am inclined to think they evolved in Omani trade areas in Eastern Africa, where examples were acquired by traders moving westward and probably traded into tribal regions along the trade routes. Omani merchants as I understand, wore these proudly as marks of status, and such adorned weapons would certainly have appealed to the ranking chieftains in these trade contacts.

I would like to thank you again for placing this wonderfully written letter on this topic, and of course look forward to discussing further...for me this forum is about learning, and I have certainly enjoyed learning more from what you have added here.

With all very best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Off topic question to Ibrahim (sorry TVV):

Do the Bani Ka'ab Tribesmen of Oman (particularly the Buraimi region) use the Kattara?

I know that the coastal people of Oman use shamshir's and sabers but always wondered what my distant relatives there use :P

Salaams,
I know many Beni Ka'ab here... They are a famous tribe and in particular were very active in retaining this part of the world as Omani in the early 50s. They dominate the mountains from Hatta to Wadi Dhank and their centre is the town of Mahada near us here about 25 kms North East. Yes indeed the Al Kaabi carry the Omani Long Sword "The Kattara."

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I have read through your magnificent treatise on the Omani short sword and its development, and can only say it is a wonderfully thorough analysis and description of early Islamic history, and in particular that which pertains to Oman. I must confess that it must be obvious that my knowledge in this field of study pales in comparison to what you have shown, and I am most grateful for your sharing of this information here. I also must admit that my notes comparing the earlier style of Omani hilt (Elgood, p.17, fig.2.13; 2.15)to the Nasrid form was entirely free association and suggesting the drooping quillon hilt form had similarity. I should have emphasized the speculation on my part.

I do often make such speculations in hopes of developing more discussion which might support or rebuke the case in point, and admit being caught entirely offguard here as the desired response is to comments of nearly two years ago:) Still, I am absolutely delighted and more than impressed!!

Please help me more clearly understand your reference to the 'Omani short battle sword', I am assuming you are referring to the downturned quillon hilt sword mentioned from Elgood in which I suggested possible Nasrid connection?
Also, I am unclear on which sword in Topkapi you are referring to as Abbasid of the 9th century. In checking "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (the late Dr.Unsal Yucel, Istanbul, 2001) I could not isolate an example corresponding.
Whatever the case, I am very much in accord with your suggestions that the Omani swords were in most probability derived from the Abbasid swords as you well describe and support.

The focus of our discussion here was of course on the later version of the Omani kattara, which as agreed seems to have developed around the 17th century and probably does have distinct associations with the development of the Omani trade in Zanzibar which certainly diffused in Kenya and into trade routes in various networks which traversed the continent. Actually, I think most of our attention was directed to the cylindrical hilt without guard and its similarity to the guardless seme' swords of Kenya and the similar guardless hilts of Mandingo sabres in Mali. Naturally these are again visual comparisons, but placed compellingly by the prevalence of Omani trade on the East Coast of Africa.

It would seem that the profound introduction of trade blades, particularly from Solingen in about the time these 'long kattara' with cylindrical hilts developed, may have led to the simplification of the hilt. The swordplay you describe, using buckler and slashing cuts is well known in India, and in fact even well known in regions as remote as Khevsuria in the Caucusus, where the impressive leaps and parrying have indeed evolved in dancing type performances from genuine martial training. As always, these simple hilt forms could certainly have developed independantly, but the ever present trade routes described offer tempting support to think otherwise. I am inclined to think they evolved in Omani trade areas in Eastern Africa, where examples were acquired by traders moving westward and probably traded into tribal regions along the trade routes. Omani merchants as I understand, wore these proudly as marks of status, and such adorned weapons would certainly have appealed to the ranking chieftains in these trade contacts.

I would like to thank you again for placing this wonderfully written letter on this topic, and of course look forward to discussing further...for me this forum is about learning, and I have certainly enjoyed learning more from what you have added here.

With all very best regards,
Jim

Salaams,
Thank you for your very detailed and inspiring reply. The reference for the Topkapi 9th Century Abbasid sword is ;

Medieval Swords and Helmets from Topkapi Museum - STLCC.edu
Medieval Swords and Weapons in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul (Part 2). ... Kufic inscription on the blade of a Abbasid sword, 9th century. ...
users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/turk/TopkapiArms2.html - United States - Cached

~perhaps best found simply by typing into google search the string ..."Abbasid swords Topkapi museum images".

I think what is quite conclusive is the fact that this sword would have been in Oman with the Abbasid garrison during the 8th Century.

In referring to the Omani Short Battle Sword; yes absolutely it is the turned down quillon sword mentioned by Elgood. I simply cannot see any relationship between the two systems(Omani kattara long / Omani Short) and suspect that the short early version may even have been called something other than Kattara though I have no proof.
It does seem that Oman adopted the "Kattara Long" possibly in the 17th Century after seizing Zanzibar initially in 1652. Whether that was the end of the Omani Short has yet to be established but it must have heralded the changeover...perhaps slowly. The Kattara Long does apper to be African linked but to which sword perhaps a Zanzibar sword we havent yet identified? or a concoction mixed with the Sudani, Ethiopian, Yemeni however I do keep raising the flag on the "Terrs" Buckler shield which is African and said to be Rhino hide (though Im sure buffalo and even whale hide were used.) as it is a combination weapon system best used with the small shield.
Thank you very much again for your very encouraging reply.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahim,

No need to apologize, I have been following your thoughts on the evolution of Omani swords with great interest.

My personal thoughts on the adoption of the long Omani broadsword are similar to yours on the adoption of the short sword - I think the form may have entered the Omani aresenal through military contact with the Portuguese. The blade shape of a kattara to me is quite different than the blade shape on a takouba (especially when one considers older examples with a triangular blade) or even that on a kaskara, which has a pointed tip as opposed to the rounded tips on the Omani sword. Therefore an adoption through trophies taken from the Portuguese after the latter were ousted from Muscat seems to be a more logical and direct route than trade links with the African interior.



Further, if the origin of the long kattara was from European broadswords, this would explain why older European maker marks and symbols on sword blades retained an importance well into the 19th century, causing them to be reproduced locally.

As for the curved sabers, I think I read somewhere in Elgood's book that in the mid 19th century, a lot of Caucasian shashka blades made its way into Southern Arabia (connected perhaps to the Circassian diaspora?) and were quickly given local hilts. When I look at the blade on mine, it certainly could have been taken from a shashka.

Regards,
Teodor
Salaams,
Thanks Teodor. The Portuguese were ejected in 1650 from Muscat and persued down the African coast as far as Mozambique and harrassed all over the Indian Ocean in Goa etc etc. Contrary to what people may think, they in fact, used Indian mercenaries as their soldiers on the ground and on their ships... Even a large Portuguese battleship had few Portuguese on board other than "the executives". Religiously they were somewhat biggotted and in no way shape or form would they have entertained an Islamic sword with an Islamic hilt in their arsenals... and in the same way the troopers were not muslims...but hindu. When the Portuguese sacked Sohar for example they slaughtered most of the inhabitants(including the Jewish community) They had a very huge bee in their bonnet about other religions in those days ! ...
While the Omani Short Sword was in use against them it certainly cannot have been introduced by them. The Omani Short, however, is compared favourably with the Abbasid 8th Century Sword. So that we are not confused between the two systems (it is better to think of them as systems since they are totally different and one employs a Buckler shield called a Terrs.) I have attached pictures. The Omani Short Battle Sword is if Im right, 8th Century, so it is no wonder it is shrouded in mystery as "Interior Oman" virtually closed to the outside world until the mid 20th Century ! The Omani Long Kattara on the other hand is generally viewed as being influenced by Zanzibar ~ the swords of Africa perhaps Zanzibari, Sudani and Ethiopian all perhaps adding to the design.
Your note about Shashka is interesting . I had never thought about that. I always thought they were just german imports but your idea is very interesting. Thanks for pointing that out !! :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I was lucky enough to win this kattara on eBay about a month ago and it has finally arrived, which enables me to share pictures.
Scabbard and hilt are in poor shape, but at least they retain most of the original fittings and leather. As you can see the fittings are quite simple - no silver, nothing fancy.
Same can be said for the blade - it looks like a 19th century trade blade.
There are plenty of markings, identical on both sides - at the base of the blade there are gurda markings, with something in the middle - does anyone know what it is or what it attempts to represent? At the end of the fullers there is also a small cross. All the markings seem to have been added to the blade locally.
Do you think I am correct about this being a trade blade imported fro, Europe, or would you say this is a local blade?

I am very happy to have added this to my other kattara with a curved blade (most likely an imported shashka blade), and I appreciate everyone's comments.

Regards,
Teodor
Without a Terrs Shield working with a kattara blade is a very wobbly business.

[A.alnakkas]

Thanks for the info Ibrahim, Jazaak allah khair. I am very interested in Bani Ka'ab history and do know that the Buraimi Bani Ka'ab have fought alot of wars.

btw, my Kattara looks very attractive with that shield :P

[TVV]

Ibrahim, when I wrote "Omani broadsword" I was referring to the long kattara, not to the short sword. I should try to express myself clearer.

Regards,
Teodor

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
Thank you for the references to the Abbasid sword in Topkapi, and for continuing the most intriguing line of discussion on these swords. I very much like the way you are fielding responses to us individually and with personal attention, and appreciate your taking the time to do this as it is most informative. I am also enjoying learning more on the tribal groups you are describing to learn more on the fascinating history of Oman.

What has become most fascinating is to now realize that these forms of Omani sword are independant rather than developmentally connected, and I believe that Elgood had expressed in his book that the connections between them were somewhat tenuous. Actually the text noted that the origins of what we are terming the 'Omani short sword' were entirely unclear, though he noted several possibilities including Omani settlements in Baluchistan etc. (mentioned in discussions in 2009). Therefore I very much am in accord with your suggestions on the Abbasid origins, and delighted to learn more on this aspect.

What is now termed the 'long kattara' does indeed seem to have originated somewhat around the time of expanded Omani trade and colonial activity, and the increases in presence of trade blades in these regions. I am not sure that the cylindrical type hilt would have had to develop from a sword form in Africa, in fact this simple form would easily have developed independantly.
The fact that there is similarity in form or elements in a type of sword found in different spheres does not actually imply a developmental connection, as I have found, despite the compelling suggestion. With that being the case, it seems most likely that the 'long kattara' may have developed independantly, although if there is any connection to the Mandingo or Maasai guardless swords, I feel it would have been imported through trade materials oroginating with the Omani's. The sword was not the primary weapon with tribal groups in Africa in most cases, and became more commonly used post contact with traders from Europe and Arabia.

In Arabia, as I understand, the use of trade blades was quite prevalent from around 16th century onward, and of course many of these were German, though many came from India and Persia as well. By the later 17th and 18th centuries, the German blades had become more prevalent, and the spurious markings were of course commonly present usually suggesting quality to those acquiring them. As Teodor has noted, there was considerable contact through trade with Caucasian areas, and many blades from there had been marked with the 'running wolf' (of Germany) and the 'sickle marks' (N. Italy and Styria). Since many of these blades were of the curved form used on shashkas, it does seem that these occurred accordingly on the open kattara style hilts.

Also interesting is your note on the material used on the terrs shields, and mostly I have heard of rhino, but not of the whale hide. This would be quite understandable though, as there was a great deal of use of narwhal tusk in hilts in India, and the trade sources must have had these materials both available. Naturally the trade with Malabar in India provided probably these as well as certainly numbers of European blades which were available through Mahratta merchants.

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
Thank you for the references to the Abbasid sword in Topkapi, and for continuing the most intriguing line of discussion on these swords. I very much like the way you are fielding responses to us individually and with personal attention, and appreciate your taking the time to do this as it is most informative. I am also enjoying learning more on the tribal groups you are describing to learn more on the fascinating history of Oman.

What has become most fascinating is to now realize that these forms of Omani sword are independant rather than developmentally connected, and I believe that Elgood had expressed in his book that the connections between them were somewhat tenuous. Actually the text noted that the origins of what we are terming the 'Omani short sword' were entirely unclear, though he noted several possibilities including Omani settlements in Baluchistan etc. (mentioned in discussions in 2009). Therefore I very much am in accord with your suggestions on the Abbasid origins, and delighted to learn more on this aspect.

What is now termed the 'long kattara' does indeed seem to have originated somewhat around the time of expanded Omani trade and colonial activity, and the increases in presence of trade blades in these regions. I am not sure that the cylindrical type hilt would have had to develop from a sword form in Africa, in fact this simple form would easily have developed independantly.
The fact that there is similarity in form or elements in a type of sword found in different spheres does not actually imply a developmental connection, as I have found, despite the compelling suggestion. With that being the case, it seems most likely that the 'long kattara' may have developed independantly, although if there is any connection to the Mandingo or Maasai guardless swords, I feel it would have been imported through trade materials oroginating with the Omani's. The sword was not the primary weapon with tribal groups in Africa in most cases, and became more commonly used post contact with traders from Europe and Arabia.

In Arabia, as I understand, the use of trade blades was quite prevalent from around 16th century onward, and of course many of these were German, though many came from India and Persia as well. By the later 17th and 18th centuries, the German blades had become more prevalent, and the spurious markings were of course commonly present usually suggesting quality to those acquiring them. As Teodor has noted, there was considerable contact through trade with Caucasian areas, and many blades from there had been marked with the 'running wolf' (of Germany) and the 'sickle marks' (N. Italy and Styria). Since many of these blades were of the curved form used on shashkas, it does seem that these occurred accordingly on the open kattara style hilts.

Also interesting is your note on the material used on the terrs shields, and mostly I have heard of rhino, but not of the whale hide. This would be quite understandable though, as there was a great deal of use of narwhal tusk in hilts in India, and the trade sources must have had these materials both available. Naturally the trade with Malabar in India provided probably these as well as certainly numbers of European blades which were available through Mahratta merchants.

All the very best,
Jim
Salaams Jim, Thanks for another very substantial and supporting response. Teodor, as you rightly say, points out the Shashka link to the curved Sayf and refers quote; ...
"As for the curved sabers, I think I read somewhere in Elgood's book that in the mid 19th century, a lot of Caucasian shashka blades made its way into Southern Arabia (connected perhaps to the Circassian diaspora?) and were quickly given local hilts. When I look at the blade on mine, it certainly could have been taken from a shashka" .

I have several shaska blades on flat conical Omani hilts and others on falcon head shaped hilts. I wonder if the hawk style hilt also originated there in the Caucasus as well... Hunting with falcons although popular with the arabs may not be the reason for the hawkshead style on the shaska blades in Arabia... perhaps the entire Curved Sayf; blade and hilt, is Caucasus inspired?

On the subject of Omani Kattara Long. Here is an important passage from W. H. INGRAMS who was an official advisor to the British governor and unusually advisor to the Sultan of Zanzibar variously from about 1919 (published in 1931) in which he describes~

" The only performance or dance of the Arabs is the sword dance, RAZHA, accompanied by an orchestra of drums while the performers armed with swords and Jambiyya and small shields of rhinoceros hide indulge in mimic contests. leaping about and weilding their swords in a truly marvellous way".

However what I find amazing is...This was not a Zanzibari dance. W. H. Ingrams goes on to explain that this was only carried out by the Manga(those born in Muscat) not those Mwarcha (those born in Zanzibar).

Could this mean that the Omanis developed entirely separately a fighting system(long blade and buckler) with its own dancing martial activity totally unrelated to Zanzibar and that Zanzibar is an enormous red herring in the proceedings?

If that is the case we may need to look a lot earlier for the answers on Omani Kattara Long and Terrs Buckler Shield! :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahim, when I wrote "Omani broadsword" I was referring to the long kattara, not to the short sword. I should try to express myself clearer.

Regards,
Teodor
Not a problem~ I hope my answer answered both possibilities and please see my latest to Jim McDougall as I believe your facts about the Shashka are vital to a new aspect of curved swords in the region and there is a relevant and intriguing story from Zanzibar. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim, Thanks for another very substantial and supporting response. Teodor, as you rightly say, points out the Shashka link to the curved Sayf and refers quote; ...
"As for the curved sabers, I think I read somewhere in Elgood's book that in the mid 19th century, a lot of Caucasian shashka blades made its way into Southern Arabia (connected perhaps to the Circassian diaspora?) and were quickly given local hilts. When I look at the blade on mine, it certainly could have been taken from a shashka" .

I have several shaska blades on flat conical Omani hilts and others on falcon head shaped hilts. I wonder if the hawk style hilt also originated there in the Caucasus as well... Hunting with falcons although popular with the arabs may not be the reason for the hawkshead style on the shaska blades in Arabia... perhaps the entire Curved Sayf; blade and hilt, is Caucasus inspired?

On the subject of Omani Kattara Long. Here is an important passage from W. H. INGRAMS who was an official advisor to the British governor and unusually advisor to the Sultan of Zanzibar variously from about 1919 (published in 1931) in which he describes~

" The only performance or dance of the Arabs is the sword dance, RAZHA, accompanied by an orchestra of drums while the performers armed with swords and Jambiyya and small shields of rhinoceros hide indulge in mimic contests. leaping about and weilding their swords in a truly marvellous way".

However what I find amazing is...This was not a Zanzibari dance. W. H. Ingrams goes on to explain that this was only carried out by the Manga(those born in Muscat) not those Mwarcha (those born in Zanzibar).

Could this mean that the Omanis developed entirely separately a fighting system(long blade and buckler) with its own dancing martial activity totally unrelated to Zanzibar and that Zanzibar is an enormous red herring in the proceedings?

If that is the case we may need to look a lot earlier for the answers on Omani Kattara Long and Terrs Buckler Shield! :shrug:

Omani Kattara .
The earliest picture I can find which goes back to this forum in 2004 is attached showing an 1860 slave trader Tipu Sultan with a slightly curved Sayf on a long hilt with holed pommel looking like it is an antique (but date of origin unproven!! )

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Omani Kattara .
The earliest picture I can find which goes back to this forum in 2004 is attached showing an 1860 slave trader Tipu Sultan with a slightly curved Sayf on a long hilt with holed pommel looking like it is an antique (but date of origin unproven!! )
Heres the photo~

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I'm puzzled by the reference to 1860 slave trader "Tipu Sultan' ? What post was that in? The sword appears to be a military sabre blade (carrying rings) and probably corresponding blade with the Omani type hilt. Where was this slave trader said to be operating, or where was the photo from.

Also, what is meant by the 'hawkshead' hilt ? Is there an illustration? In any case the curved sabre is by no means from Caucasian ancestry in Arabia though the trade blades from there did come in through various means.
The use of some of these Caucasian blades is mentioned by Elgood in "Arms and Armour of Arabia", and the preference for Persian blades is also noted. We have discussed many times the use of Persian trade blades on Arab sabres. Many of the straight blades are known to have arrived through Indian trade contacts.

The martial swordplay/'dancing' is also described by Sir Richard Burton in 1884, and as noted is also known in India, particularly in the case of use of the pata in which deep slashing moves are made. The Mahrattas distinctly favored slashing moves, despising the thrust. In Khevsuria, in the Caucasus, these dance type moves leaping from crouched position and using bucklers are key to the well known duels practiced well into the 20th century.

I am inclined to think that the guardless Omani hilt developed in the Arabian Peninsula, and not in Zanzibar, nor was it influenced by the swords from the African interior. While the importance of Zanzibar was considerable as a trade and center including slaving commerce, I feel that it was much more receptive as far as weaponry than it was innovative, and the weapons in use there were an amalgam of many forms used by the many traders frwquenting there. It is known that later in the 19th century many makers there did produce swords of established forms using trade blades and copying styles from numerous influences. The well known 'Zanzibar' type of 'nimcha' hilts is essentially the Moroccan sa'if type hilt with a perpandicular loop on the guard (as seen in Buttin, 1933).

All the very best,
Jim

[A.alnakkas]

By hawkshead hilt, Ibrahim means the arabic Karabella. These are often flagged as yemeni but lately am considering that they might be omani or shared by both regions.

[Jim McDougall]

By hawkshead hilt, Ibrahim means the arabic Karabella. These are often flagged as yemeni but lately am considering that they might be omani or shared by both regions.

Thank you, I thought thats what was meant, but wanted to be sure. The karabella form was indeed deeply favored in Arabia, but that rather distinct hilt form developed under Ottoman auspices as I understand. It is believed the term may reference the city in Iraq which may have associations to the name, as discussed in "Development of the Polish Sabre" (Jan Ostrowski). The karabela became prevalent as a parade sabre and considered the Polish national weapon after they adopted the form from sabres used by the Turks.
The hilt form seems to have likely entered the Arabian domain through the Ottoman influences as well.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I'm puzzled by the reference to 1860 slave trader "Tipu Sultan' ? What post was that in? The sword appears to be a military sabre blade (carrying rings) and probably corresponding blade with the Omani type hilt. Where was this slave trader said to be operating, or where was the photo from.

Also, what is meant by the 'hawkshead' hilt ? Is there an illustration? In any case the curved sabre is by no means from Caucasian ancestry in Arabia though the trade blades from there did come in through various means.
The use of some of these Caucasian blades is mentioned by Elgood in "Arms and Armour of Arabia", and the preference for Persian blades is also noted. We have discussed many times the use of Persian trade blades on Arab sabres. Many of the straight blades are known to have arrived through Indian trade contacts.

The martial swordplay/'dancing' is also described by Sir Richard Burton in 1884, and as noted is also known in India, particularly in the case of use of the pata in which deep slashing moves are made. The Mahrattas distinctly favored slashing moves, despising the thrust. In Khevsuria, in the Caucasus, these dance type moves leaping from crouched position and using bucklers are key to the well known duels practiced well into the 20th century.

I am inclined to think that the guardless Omani hilt developed in the Arabian Peninsula, and not in Zanzibar, nor was it influenced by the swords from the African interior. While the importance of Zanzibar was considerable as a trade and center including slaving commerce, I feel that it was much more receptive as far as weaponry than it was innovative, and the weapons in use there were an amalgam of many forms used by the many traders frwquenting there. It is known that later in the 19th century many makers there did produce swords of established forms using trade blades and copying styles from numerous influences. The well known 'Zanzibar' type of 'nimcha' hilts is essentially the Moroccan sa'if type hilt with a perpandicular loop on the guard (as seen in Buttin, 1933).

All the very best,
Jim
Salaams Jim, My mistake in calling him Tipu Sultan (sultans on the brain!!)His real name (tipu tip) was; hamed bin mohammed a swahili which is good to punch into google search ~ The greatest slaver on the African East Coast and controlling about 2 million square miles of territory. posted 11-24-2004 14:05 ( picture 7.) The sword is rigged on a scabbard that would hang at the long carry usually seen on scimitar and shamshir varieties... Anyway it is the hilt which intrigues..

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







Tippu Tip
Tippu Tip or Tib (1837 - June 14, 1905), real name Hamad bin Muḥammad bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Muḥammad bin Sa‘īd al-Murghabī, (Arabic: حمد بن محمد بن جمعة بن رجب بن محمد بن سعيد المرجبي‎), was a Swahili-Zanzibari trader of mixed descent. He was famously known as Tippu Tib after an eye disease which made him blind. A notorious slave trader, plantation owner and governor, who worked for a succession of sultans of Zanzibar, he led many trading expeditions into east-central Africa, involving the slave trade and ivory trade. He constructed profitable trading posts that reached deep into Central Africa.

He built himself a trading empire that he then translated into clove plantations on Zanzibar. Abdul Sheriff reports that when he left for his twelve years of "empire building" on the mainland, he had no plantations of his own. However, by 1895, he had acquired "seven shambas [plantations] and 10,000 slaves."[1]

His mother, Bint Habib bin Bushir, was a Muscat Arab of the ruling class. His father and paternal grandfather were coastal Swahili who had taken part in the earliest trading expeditions to the interior. His paternal great-grandmother, wife of Rajab bin Mohammed bin Said el Murgebi was the daughter of Juma bin Mohammed el Nebhani, a member of a respected Muscat (Oman) family, and an African woman from the village of Mbwa Maji, a small village south of what would later become the German capital of Dar es Salaam.[2]

He met and helped several famous western explorers of the African continent, including Henry Morton Stanley. Between 1884 and 1887, el Murgebi claimed the Eastern Congo for himself and for the Sultan of Zanzibar, Bargash bin Said el Busaidi. In spite of his position as protector of Zanzibar's interests in Congo, he managed to maintain good relations with the Europeans. When, in August 1886, fighting broke out between Arabs (Swahili) and the representatives of King Leopold II of Belgium at Stanley Falls, el Murgebi went to the Belgian consul at Zanzibar to assure him of his "good intentions." Although he was still a force in Central African politics, he could see by 1886 that power in the region was shifting. In early 1887, Stanley arrived in Zanzibar and proposed that Tippu Tip be made governor of the Stanley Falls District in the Congo Free State. Both Leopold and Sultan Barghash bin Said agreed and on February 24, 1887, Hamed bin Mohammed el Murgebi accepted.[3]

Around 1890/91, he returned to Zanzibar where he retired. He wrote his autobiography, which is the first example of this literary genre in Swahili. El Murgebi wrote his autobiography in Swahili in Arabic script. Dr. Heinrich Brode, who knew him in Zanzibar, transcribed the manuscript into Roman script and translated it into German. It was subsequently translated into English and published in Britain in 1907.

He died June 13, 1905, of malaria (according to Brode) in his home in Stone Town, the main town on the island of Zanzibar.

I have put up two fotos one is Tipu in the photo in the 1860s with the Kattara long handle on what looks like a kattara or sayf and the other a sketch of Sultan Barghash later in about 1895 annoyingly sporting the Old Omani Sword with turned down Quillons !!!


Hawkshead hilt ~ Possibly from the hilt known as Karabella and often simply leather covered in Arabian swords. It occurred to me that Shaska have similar hilts and that perhaps the hilt transferred at the same time as the blade in this variant. It would make sense that this short curved weapon was used aboard Omani ships however I cant prove that. (yet) I have put up photos of the curved smaller sayf with the hawk or falcons head simply leather covered.

Reference your "I am inclined to think that the guardless Omani hilt developed in the Arabian Peninsula, and not in Zanzibar, nor was it influenced by the swords from the African interior".

I agree but I cant quite prove it. The quote I made I think is important from the 1931 publication stating that the dance routine or "Razha" seen in Zanzibar was Omani so we look today for a similar terminology and sure enough the Omani Sword dance is called RAZHA ! That should be Game Set and Match !! but it doesnt put a suitable date on the sword entering use in Oman.

If there is no Zanzibar/ African link when did the kattara long enter use in Oman? It certainly entered folklore in the form of a martial dance and that points to a very early date. I would suggest between 9th and 13 th century ~ and on the Oman coast (BECAUSE COASTAL OMAN WOULD BRING THE RHINO HIDE SHIELDS MATERIAL FROM AFRICAN SOURCES AS OPPOSED TO IT BEING BROUGHT BY THE INTERIOR OF OMAN ~ THE TWO FACTIONS "THE INTERIOR AND THE COASTAL BELT" BEING MORE OR LESS AT WAR WITH EACH OTHER CONTINUOUSLY.

I have the Short Omani Battle Sword frozen in a time warp in the Omani interior, Abbasid influeced, entering use about 850 A.D. and remaining in use at least up to the 1890s when it was sketched on the waist of Sultan Bargash. (picture attached)

Conclusions.
The influence of Caucasus blades may have also included handle design on shorter curved sayf likely to have been used on board the very active Omani merchant and Naval vessels.
I also conclude that the Omani Long Kattara could pre date estimates by 4 centuries in view of the estimated time that folklore would need for the sword and shield dance to be imprinted and that the two systems were in use variously and together until the early 1900s. as defined in the pictures attached.
It remains to be uncovered as to wether the long curved sayf was used in the same fashion as the kattara since it is also seen with the same handle... The long flat connical hilt and pommel with a hole..

Shukran Jim

Ibrahiim


Reference your "The well known 'Zanzibar' type of 'nimcha' hilts" For years there has been a muddle over these hilts to often attributed to Moroccan.. see Antony North Islamic Arms p 29 ~ I have seen some almost identical but now attributed to Zanzibar.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

By hawkshead hilt, Ibrahim means the arabic Karabella. These are often flagged as yemeni but lately am considering that they might be omani or shared by both regions.

SALAAMS ...Indeed they do get called Yemeni and it could be that is where they were traded in from. Good point on the Karbella ! Thanks !!

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
More on the 'karabela':
From: "Polish Sabres:Their Origins and Evolution", Jan Ostroski, in
"Art , Arms & Armour" ed. Robert Held, 1979, pp.220-237.

The hilt form known as karabela, was also widely known as 'the Polish Sabre'.
"...the oldest available karabelas now in Poland are known to have been captured at Vienna in 1683, and hence originated in Turkey, probably under Persian influence, at the beginning of the 17th century. Within a short time it became more popular in Poland than it had ever been in Turkey or Hungary."

In "The Arms and Armour of Arabia", Robert Elgood, 1994, p.15, a sword found in the suqs of Riyadh described as follows, "...the hilt is like the karabella in form with silver sheet or other netal partly covering the grip made of wood or horn. The Arab traders say these are acquired in the Yemen. **

** as noted

The so called karabela hilt became popular in Persia in the early 17th century and Shah Abbas I can be seen wearing a sword with this hilt in miniature paintings. Because of the close trade and political links between Persia and Poland, which were in alliance against the Ottomans, and the adaption of Persian culture at court, the sword became extremely popular in Poland".

Elgood further notes that in 1623 Shah Abbas had occupied Baghdad and in taking control of areas including the city of Karbala, suggesting that the name for the sword hilt was in memory of that campaign.He also cites Nadolski ('Polish Side Arms') who states that there was considerable export of these type swords in later 17th early 18th c. entering the Persian Gulf trade, with many of course arriving in Arabia.

Also discussed are these shorter combat swords 'nim sha' which indeed were ideal for maritime use and well known in the Arab trade world. I know that many of these have the 'karabela' type hilt form and are wire wrapped at the neck of the hilt as are Persian shamshirs. In Arabia, Persian swords and blades are held in the highest esteem.

While these references illustrate the probable sources of the karabela style hilts in Arabia, there is still the question of the cylindrical or guardless Omani long kattara and its origins. The examples of leather covered guardless swords posted do seem to reflect in degree a certain recognition of the Caucasian shashka, but really it seems again, a tenous connection and likely a simple hilt solution to the use of the sabre blades which came not only from the Caucusus but other European sources as well. These kinds of swords with sabre blades are well known with Bedouin tribesmen even into the Sinai.

The simple open hilt Omani 'long kattara' seems likely also a product of simplistic hilting of these longer trade blades to be used as described with the buckler. The more decorative and silver mounted versions were likely of course for prominant and status conscious Omani merchants and officials.

All the best,
Jim

[kahnjar1]

Thought I would add a little in the way of pics to this thread since the term Karabela has surfaced. I have such an item of Yemeni origin with that type of hilt. Have also added a couple of pics of a straight and a curved Omani Kattara, both of which have appeared in different threads of this Forum. Also a pic of a Terrs buckler which I have in my collection.
Regards Stuart

[kahnjar1]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12242
The plot thickens.................. Refer to above link where Kattara were also discussed. ARCHER posted pics of a sword with "knobs" on the top of the hilt. This was (I think) eventually identified as Manding, but take a look at the sword held by Sultan Tipu! Looks remarkably similar.
So what do the Members think now..............? Is ARCHER'S sword in fact a Kattara?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12242
The plot thickens.................. Refer to above link where Kattara were also discussed. ARCHER posted pics of a sword with "knobs" on the top of the hilt. This was (I think) eventually identified as Manding, but take a look at the sword held by Sultan Tipu! Looks remarkably similar.
So what do the Members think now..............? Is ARCHER'S sword in fact a Kattara?

Salaams, Archers is Mendingo and the other with the Sultan is kattara. Thats not "Tippu Sultan".. that may have been a misleading comment by me ... Tippu tip al swahili was a slave trader (there was a tipu sultan but he was off another generation altogether from India not related)

Tippu Tip or Tib (1837 - June 14, 1905), real name Hamad bin Muḥammad bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Muḥammad bin Sa‘īd al-Murghabī, (Arabic: حمد بن محمد بن جمعة بن رجب بن محمد بن سعيد المرجبي‎), was a Swahili-Zanzibari trader of mixed descent. He was famously known as Tippu Tib after an eye disease which made him blind. A notorious slave trader, plantation owner and governor, who worked for a succession of sultans of Zanzibar, he led many trading expeditions into east-central Africa, involving the slave trade and ivory trade. He constructed profitable trading posts that reached deep into Central Africa.

The photo may be one of the Zanzibari sultans like Barghash or whoever but anyway that is an Omani Kattara...with a hole in the pommel !!

I think what may be important here is that the link with African swords to the Omani Kattara is being dismantled and it may be that the Kattara is a thoroughbred Omani system coupled with the buckler Terss shield and possibly pre-dating previous estimates and dwarfing age estimates by possibly 500 years !! since it is engrained in the historical cultural Omani tradition by way of a sword and shield war dance.

My estimate is 9th century inspired from the Oman Coast, war, trade and slavery and by the fact of the traditional dance.

I think what is also slowly dawning is the suposition that the Omani Short Battle Sword may be well and truly ancient predating previous estimates by several centuries as a staggering 8th Century weapon copied from the Abbasid.

What clouds the issue on the Long Kattara is the abundance of european blades though presumeably the original blade was similar ?? Im not even sure that looking at the blade is all that relevant ~ it is the hilt and the shield which seem to be more an important flag on origin and the cultural aspect of a traditional war dance which takes ages before it becomes imprinted as a national iconic structure.

By the way do you notice the brass escutcheons on the front of the Buckler ?... They are for securing the handle and for disarming with a twist the opponents sword.

I think I should put on record the number of different swords on this long hilt is vast...both straight, double edged, single edged, zig zag blades, slight curved, and very curved and in my collection alone there are lots... so a picture should be seen displaying that conundrum~

That alone underpins how difficult it is to trace back the origin of species of the Omani Kattara and the oldest picture(photo) I have seen is about 1860. If anyone has any older photos or pictures I would appreciate that. :shrug:

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12242
The plot thickens.................. Refer to above link where Kattara were also discussed. ARCHER posted pics of a sword with "knobs" on the top of the hilt. This was (I think) eventually identified as Manding, but take a look at the sword held by Sultan Tipu! Looks remarkably similar.
So what do the Members think now..............? Is ARCHER'S sword in fact a Kattara?

Salaams, Archers is Mendingo and the other with the Sultan is kattara. Thats not "Tippu Sultan".. that may have been a misleading comment by me ... Tippu tip al swahili was a slave trader (there was a tipu sultan but he was off another generation altogether from India not related)

Tippu Tip or Tib (1837 - June 14, 1905), real name Hamad bin Muḥammad bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Muḥammad bin Sa‘īd al-Murghabī, (Arabic: حمد بن محمد بن جمعة بن رجب بن محمد بن سعيد المرجبي‎), was a Swahili-Zanzibari trader of mixed descent. He was famously known as Tippu Tib after an eye disease which made him blind. A notorious slave trader, plantation owner and governor, who worked for a succession of sultans of Zanzibar, he led many trading expeditions into east-central Africa, involving the slave trade and ivory trade. He constructed profitable trading posts that reached deep into Central Africa.

The photo may be one of the Zanzibari sultans like Barghash or whoever but anyway that is an Omani Kattara...with a hole in the pommel !!

I think what may be important here is that the link with African swords to the Omani Kattara is being dismantled and it may be that the Kattara is a thoroughbred Omani system coupled with the buckler Terss shield and possibly pre-dating previous estimates and dwarfing age estimates by possibly 500 years !! since it is engrained in the historical cultural Omani tradition by way of a sword and shield war dance.

My estimate is 9th century inspired from the Oman Coast, war, trade and slavery and by the fact of the traditional dance.

I think what is also slowly dawning is the suposition that the Omani Short Battle Sword may be well and truly ancient predating previous estimates by several centuries as a staggering 8th Century weapon copied from the Abbasid.

What clouds the issue on the Long Kattara is the abundance of european blades though presumeably the original blade was similar ?? Im not even sure that looking at the blade is all that relevant ~ it is the hilt and the shield which seem to be more an important flag on origin and the cultural aspect of a traditional war dance which takes ages before it becomes imprinted as a national iconic structure.

By the way do you notice the brass escutcheons on the front of the Buckler ?... They are for securing the handle and for disarming with a twist the opponents sword.

I think I should put on record the number of different swords on this long hilt is vast...both straight, double edged, single edged, zig zag blades, slight curved, and very curved and in my collection alone there are lots... so a picture should be seen displaying that conundrum~

That alone underpins how difficult it is to trace back the origin of species of the Omani Kattara and the oldest picture(photo) I have seen is about 1860. If anyone has any older photos or pictures I would appreciate that. :shrug:

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding Stu!! Thats exactly the example of Yemeni sword I was thinking of!
Nicely explained summation of the discussion to date and reiteration of what we are closer to agreeing on the development of these swords Ibrahiim. Thank you for providing all the detail on Tipu Tib as well, as the slave trade seems key to much of the diffusion involved here, and it is well established that Zanzibar was one of the busy if not key East African centers.

With this I wanted to reassert my thoughts on the idea that the Mandingo sabre hilt form may well be connected to these Omani kattara (long) through these slave trade routes. I agree that the sword shown by Archer in the linked thread is Mandingo, with similar hilt shape to kattara, but note the ring around the leather wrapped grip midpoint, and the spherical knob atip the grip is of course different than the squared Omani pommel (with aperture). I would reemphasize that I believe the influence in Mandingo swords reflected probably the Omani type swords.

The Trans Saharan trade routes crossed through Timbuktu, in Mali, and it is worthy of note that the Mandingo settlements in Burkina Faso and Mali were built around these long distance trade routes. In these regions these were contolled by the Mandingo people known as Dyula (Manding=merchant). It would seem reasonable that Omani swords travelling with these long distance caravans, including probably some slaves destined for Morocco (and likely with Omani overseers and merchants factors) as one key terminus, may have deeply influenced the Dyula. As noted, these kattara were esteemed symbols of status for the Omani merchants, and it would seem that thier Saharan counterparts would seek to emulate these probably keenly noted swords in thier own interpretation.

The example shown by Archer seems to reflect deeply the Omani form hilt, and has the typical Saharan broadsword blade seen on takouba, and in the larger examples on kaskara, instead of the typical European sabre blades.
It is also interesting that these triple fullered blades are seen on the cylindrically hilted swords of Sierra Leone as well, again with local hilting being favored, in this case with rondel type hilt.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
More on the 'karabela':
From: "Polish Sabres:Their Origins and Evolution", Jan Ostroski, in
"Art , Arms & Armour" ed. Robert Held, 1979, pp.220-237.

The hilt form known as karabela, was also widely known as 'the Polish Sabre'.
"...the oldest available karabelas now in Poland are known to have been captured at Vienna in 1683, and hence originated in Turkey, probably under Persian influence, at the beginning of the 17th century. Within a short time it became more popular in Poland than it had ever been in Turkey or Hungary."

In "The Arms and Armour of Arabia", Robert Elgood, 1994, p.15, a sword found in the suqs of Riyadh described as follows, "...the hilt is like the karabella in form with silver sheet or other netal partly covering the grip made of wood or horn. The Arab traders say these are acquired in the Yemen. **

** as noted

The so called karabela hilt became popular in Persia in the early 17th century and Shah Abbas I can be seen wearing a sword with this hilt in miniature paintings. Because of the close trade and political links between Persia and Poland, which were in alliance against the Ottomans, and the adaption of Persian culture at court, the sword became extremely popular in Poland".

Elgood further notes that in 1623 Shah Abbas had occupied Baghdad and in taking control of areas including the city of Karbala, suggesting that the name for the sword hilt was in memory of that campaign.He also cites Nadolski ('Polish Side Arms') who states that there was considerable export of these type swords in later 17th early 18th c. entering the Persian Gulf trade, with many of course arriving in Arabia.

Also discussed are these shorter combat swords 'nim sha' which indeed were ideal for maritime use and well known in the Arab trade world. I know that many of these have the 'karabela' type hilt form and are wire wrapped at the neck of the hilt as are Persian shamshirs. In Arabia, Persian swords and blades are held in the highest esteem.

While these references illustrate the probable sources of the karabela style hilts in Arabia, there is still the question of the cylindrical or guardless Omani long kattara and its origins. The examples of leather covered guardless swords posted do seem to reflect in degree a certain recognition of the Caucasian shashka, but really it seems again, a tenous connection and likely a simple hilt solution to the use of the sabre blades which came not only from the Caucusus but other European sources as well. These kinds of swords with sabre blades are well known with Bedouin tribesmen even into the Sinai.

The simple open hilt Omani 'long kattara' seems likely also a product of simplistic hilting of these longer trade blades to be used as described with the buckler. The more decorative and silver mounted versions were likely of course for prominant and status conscious Omani merchants and officials.

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim, I can't disagree with a single point.

It appears that there were a number of sword species in Oman concurrently viz;

1. The Omani Short Battle Sword.
2a. The Omani Kattara/ Buckler.
2b. Long curved single edged rigid pointed Sayfs on Kattara hilts.
2c. Long curved double edged pointed Sayfs on Kattara hilts.
3. Curved short variants; European, Caucaz, Polish, "Karabella", "Shasqa" seagoing swords.
4a. "Nimcha" Zanzibari Omani weapons long mistaken for Moroccan swords.
4b. Hilted, as above, with imported blades various.

In addition there are other variants that perhaps dont quite make it into the pool such as Shamshir or African bladed swords(european imports ) on Tulvar handles, some with fake running wolf marks etc

It appears that both the Omani Short and Omani Long kattara were selected as icons or badge of office worn by Sultans and VIPs (as were Shamshirs). These were often adorned with silver and gold decoration etc...and though they were weapons they were not accompanied(in the case of the Kattara) with the Terrs Buckler Shield... but the weapon often slung on the belt in the long trail position.

The Omani Short Battle Sword; I argue, is related to the Abbasid and is put at 8th Century which although it is an astonishing date is a result of the Abbasid century of attendance in Oman before they were ousted. The early date is incredible because it can also be seen on the Zanzibar Sultan Barghash in about 1895. First introduced in the 8th Century !

The Omani Long Kattara; The long shafted unguarded hilt, conical and flat ending in a counterbalanced pommel with a hole, the handle either leathered and or silver stitched in flat silver thread in a variety of geometric patterns. The fight system accompanied by a buckler shield made from Rhino ( or other thick African animal hide ) and developed with a martial dance. I suggest and argue that it was not copied nor developed from an African sword but unrelated as an Omani system designed to be fought with a Buckler. Perhaps designed in Oman around the 9th Century !

The rest they say... "is history". :shrug:

Regards Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Heres the photo~
I see the pics did not transfer with the "quote" Please refer to post #21 dated 18/5 by Ibrahiim
This is the pic I was refering to when I commented on the post by ARCHER. I do not see any hole in the hilt of this sword, just the knob as per the Mandingo sword................... so what are we really looking at here? The person in the pic wears a dagger (presumably Omani) of the saidi hilted type. Are we now saying that the sword he holds is in fact a Kattara, and if so is the hilt of the Mandingo type?
Regarding blade types found on Middle Eastern swords: The (then) colonial powers were very active in the area for a long period of time, and as a result numerious sword blades found there way to the area as "trade blades", and were hilted in the various countries with the local style of hilt. Ethiopia is a great example of this activity, where blades from all over europe appear on local swords.
Why should Oman be any different, particularly as the Omanis were well known a great seafarers and must have travelled great distances?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I see the pics did not transfer with the "quote" Please refer to post #21 dated 18/5 by Ibrahiim
This is the pic I was refering to when I commented on the post by ARCHER. I do not see any hole in the hilt of this sword, just the knob as per the Mandingo sword................... so what are we really looking at here? The person in the pic wears a dagger (presumably Omani) of the saidi hilted type. Are we now saying that the sword he holds is in fact a Kattara, and if so is the hilt of the Mandingo type?
Regarding blade types found on Middle Eastern swords: The (then) colonial powers were very active in the area for a long period of time, and as a result numerious sword blades found there way to the area as "trade blades", and were hilted in the various countries with the local style of hilt. Ethiopia is a great example of this activity, where blades from all over europe appear on local swords.
Why should Oman be any different, particularly as the Omanis were well known a great seafarers and must have travelled great distances?

Salaams, No not at all Mendingo; The sword at #21 carried by the great slave trader Tippu Tip and photographed in the 1860s is a long Kattara hilt on what some people may call a curved kattara but which is also called a Sayf in Oman. Although we cannot see the blade it can be seen that the scabbard is curved and that it has rings so that it can be slung in the low mount thus favoured by VIPs even then as a badge of office. I can see the hole in the pommel on photo one at # 21.

What I suggest is that perhaps :

1.Such was the influence of Oman in the east of Africa that some effect may have occured to sway the design of African swords e.g. from the Omani Kattara hilt to the Mendingo hilt. This is based on the slave trade control by Omani traders over huge swathes of Africa etc.

2. The African hilt "at some point" swayed the design of the kattara Omani hilt ~ something I find difficult to believe.

3. That there was no influence from anywhere on the Omani Kattara design and the Omanis dreamed up the design of hilt, blade and buckler plus the war dance "The Razha" independently.

I have to say that I am sold so far on point 3 but I am open to ideas !

On the point of colonial power; it is true that European influence did inspire a lot of African swords however not many of, for example, the typical swords of Ethiopia imported from Germany, appeared in Oman because they were rigid and pointed... The Omanis used, were brought up with and favoured the Kattara system. Luckhouse and Gunter straight german blades were useless with a Buckler and even cut back would not have found much use perhaps as ships swords opposed to the shaska style also adopted in Oman... not in Oman anyway. In Ethiopia however the full length import was ~ superb!
I have two Luckhouse and Gunters mounted on Tulvar handles but Ive seen no Omani variants yet !! :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

p.s. The chap wearing the Khanjar and sword is Sultan Barghash of Zanzibar. Yes that khanjar is the family traditional "Al Bu Saidi".

[kahnjar1]

Salaams, No not at all Mendingo; The sword at #21 carried by the great slave trader Tippu Tip and photographed in the 1860s is a long Kattara hilt on what some people may call a curved kattara but which is also called a Sayf in Oman. Although we cannot see the blade it can be seen that the scabbard is curved and that it has rings so that it can be slung in the low mount thus favoured by VIPs even then as a badge of office. I can see the hole in the pommel on photo one at # 21.

What I suggest is that perhaps :

1.Such was the influence of Oman in the east of Africa that some effect may have occured to sway the design of African swords e.g. from the Omani Kattara hilt to the Mendingo hilt. This is based on the slave trade control by Omani traders over huge swathes of Africa etc.

2. The African hilt "at some point" swayed the design of the kattara Omani hilt ~ something I find difficult to believe.

3. That there was no influence from anywhere on the Omani Kattara design and the Omanis dreamed up the design of hilt, blade and buckler plus the war dance "The Razha" independently.

I have to say that I am sold so far on point 3 but I am open to ideas !

On the point of colonial power; it is true that European influence did inspire a lot of African swords however not many of, for example, the typical swords of Ethiopia imported from Germany, appeared in Oman because they were rigid and pointed... The Omanis used, were brought up with and favoured the Kattara system. Luckhouse and Gunter straight german blades were useless with a Buckler and even cut back would not have found much use perhaps as ships swords opposed to the shaska style also adopted in Oman... not in Oman anyway. In Ethiopia however the full length import was ~ superb!
I have two Luckhouse and Gunters mounted on Tulvar handles but Ive seen no Omani variants yet !! :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

p.s. The chap wearing the Khanjar and sword is Sultan Barghash of Zanzibar. Yes that khanjar is the family traditional "Al Bu Saidi".

..........so taking your Point #1 above....it IS possible then that ARCHERS sword IS a Kattara??

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

..........so taking your Point #1 above....it IS possible then that ARCHERS sword IS a Kattara??

Salaams, Not in my book.. Theres just no proof. It may all be so wrapped up in historical time much of it frozen in Oman that getting to the bottom of this may take a while and some dedicated research. I would need to be convinced that mendingo warriors used the shield and sword and danced the same Razha... thereby using a same same fight technique and that does not seem to be the case.
My money is on number 3. Omani 100% and unrelated to any other area. Kattara and Terrs. It is a unique fighting system and I believe much earlier than first thought... Not 17th or 18th Century... more like 9th ! :shrug:

[Jim McDougall]

I really dont think that the African hilts from either Mali or anywhere else influenced the Omani hilt, as I had mentioned earlier, in my opinion the simple cylindrical style hilt without guard seems more likely applied in Africa with the diffusion of the Omani swords worn by traders.
As far as the 'style' itself, of the long kattara.....it is not as far as I can see and actual 'development' but a reduction in style from the more structured form of the kattara with quilloned guard.

An analogy, if I may, would be for example if considering colors, black is complex, actually an amalgam of colors, while white is actually an absence of color. In this case, developed structure has given way to simpler form more as a matter of convenience and viability in adapting the now available trade blades. While by no means am I discounting the simple attractiveness of the 'long kattaras' , it is just viewing thier development pragmatically.

Naturally, this 'design' would be suitably embellished and adorned in the case of the extremely status and image conscious merchants, and influenced other imitators accordingly.

With the 'gurade' or European style sabre in Abyssinia/Ethiopia, it was not a case of these people adopting the style influentially as much as it was that these swords were produced in entirity for the forces of Abyssinia. Again, it is a matter of availability and opportunity, as well as admittedly in degree that Westernization of many armies colonially and globally, was becoming well known by the mid to latter 19th century. Though the 'gurade' was indeed supplied to the Abyssinian military as produced by German manufacturers, the blades of sabre form produced in England and Germany were still mounted locally in the rhino horn hilts of the favored ancestral swords, the shotel.

The fact that many of these British and German blades are known to appear on swords often hilted in Yemen, and if I recall correctly from earlier discussions, often ended up there more for the rhino horn hilts than anything else...the blades being remounted locally there. These are typically recognized by of course the familiar Abyssinian 'Lion of Judah' and Amharic script (ge'ez) on the blades.

I am inclined to think that the style of fighting with sword and buckler of course, in itself, dates far into antiquity, and cannot be relegated to Omani invention, though thier practice of it certainly became as well known because of the described 'dancing' and exaggerated performance of martial skills.
As I earlier noted, this same type of crouching, leaping and parrying is well known in many other regions outside Omani influence, and developed probably in similar fashion. Different characteristics of course would likely be seen, and naturally the terms describing it will vary somewhat, but basically it will be the same type of technique.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I really dont think that the African hilts from either Mali or anywhere else influenced the Omani hilt, as I had mentioned earlier, in my opinion the simple cylindrical style hilt without guard seems more likely applied in Africa with the diffusion of the Omani swords worn by traders.
As far as the 'style' itself, of the long kattara.....it is not as far as I can see and actual 'development' but a reduction in style from the more structured form of the kattara with quilloned guard.

An analogy, if I may, would be for example if considering colors, black is complex, actually an amalgam of colors, while white is actually an absence of color. In this case, developed structure has given way to simpler form more as a matter of convenience and viability in adapting the now available trade blades. While by no means am I discounting the simple attractiveness of the 'long kattaras' , it is just viewing thier development pragmatically.

Naturally, this 'design' would be suitably embellished and adorned in the case of the extremely status and image conscious merchants, and influenced other imitators accordingly.

With the 'gurade' or European style sabre in Abyssinia/Ethiopia, it was not a case of these people adopting the style influentially as much as it was that these swords were produced in entirity for the forces of Abyssinia. Again, it is a matter of availability and opportunity, as well as admittedly in degree that Westernization of many armies colonially and globally, was becoming well known by the mid to latter 19th century. Though the 'gurade' was indeed supplied to the Abyssinian military as produced by German manufacturers, the blades of sabre form produced in England and Germany were still mounted locally in the rhino horn hilts of the favored ancestral swords, the shotel.

The fact that many of these British and German blades are known to appear on swords often hilted in Yemen, and if I recall correctly from earlier discussions, often ended up there more for the rhino horn hilts than anything else...the blades being remounted locally there. These are typically recognized by of course the familiar Abyssinian 'Lion of Judah' and Amharic script (ge'ez) on the blades.

I am inclined to think that the style of fighting with sword and buckler of course, in itself, dates far into antiquity, and cannot be relegated to Omani invention, though thier practice of it certainly became as well known because of the described 'dancing' and exaggerated performance of martial skills.
As I earlier noted, this same type of crouching, leaping and parrying is well known in many other regions outside Omani influence, and developed probably in similar fashion. Different characteristics of course would likely be seen, and naturally the terms describing it will vary somewhat, but basically it will be the same type of technique.

All best regards,
Jim

Salaams, It could be true that the Omani Kattara developed either independantly or with some ripple influence one or both ways from African styles but it cetainly hasn't been proven yet. It may never be. None of the African variants, however, have the same system. This was not a Zanzibari invention as only the Omanis did the Razha ritual dance. They still do it.

I liked your analogy of the two colours. It could be that a long blade needs a long hilt and pommel and to lighten the blade it needs fullers then it is a short step to the shape of the Omani Kattara. Maybe.

The indicators I have suggested place the Omani Long Kattara early possibly 9th Century because it has the terrs shield and is a system with a traditional dance. Tradition takes a long time to imprint thus my suggestion of a far earlier timeframe for the Kattara.

Oman was at war with itself for many centuries (Interior versus Coast) and it is easy to see how the interior used a different sword to those on the coast. The interior were staunch Ibathi followers and I suggest the Omani Short Battle Sword froze there for many centuries. The coast on the other hand was raked over by many invaders and extensively open to trade so change and influence would have come faster... I believe the straight kattara was adopted by the coastal half of Oman and later by the Swahili, in particular the slave traders, who fitted the long handle with slightly curved Sayfs. My previous picture shows the Tippu Tip slave trader with that setup. In that form it didnt need a shield. By the way I believe that makes it a different sword! The Omani Sayf.

What appears to have happened is that both the Omani Short and the Long Kattara were at some point used together as the country became more united and the Omani Short, The Straight Kattara and the curved variant on long hilt(Sayf) additionally became icons worn as badges of office by VIPs. The different swords overlapped. My previous picture shows a sketch of a Omani Short being worn in the late 19th Century by Sultan Bargash. :shrug:

It has certainly been an interesting discussion and I thank you for your excellent replies. Yaa Ustaath !! (Oh Master !!)

Regards Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
In discussions of what we have been referring to as the Omani short sword, with the hilt having drooping quillons, this does seem to carry traditional hilt form values of very early swords, and I think your suggestion on the Abbasid association is quite plausible.

I also agree that these quite likely might have existed for quite a long period and concurrently with the evolving simple cylinder hilt 'long kattaras'. The early form swords were as noted, most likely to have remained in use in the tribally controlled interior regions of Oman, and these regions and tribes were notably conservative. It is interesting that the Omanis from early times did have considerable contact and influence with the Baluchi's in regions of what is now Pakistan. These were people of Iranian origins with heritage from Mesopotamia. It would seem, without entering into the complexities of the previous Abbasid associations, that these connections would add further support for the quite ancient associations to the hilt style.

I believe that Elgood's comments noting the strong ties between Baluchistan and Oman were well placed, as seems to be quite supportable here.

With Muscat being the primary coastal center of power and of trade from early times, it does seem that it was exposed to considerably more influence from foreign powers, and that in later times would have been more inclined to deviate from the conservative forms of the interior tribal regions. While it is known that with the maritime trade, the short nim'cha, cutlass type sabres which seem to have come in from Yemen in many cases would of course have been well known aboard the vessels, it would appear that the developing variety of 'long kattara' was favored by persons of standing, particularly merchants.

As previously noted, these were likely a simplified version of broadsword using readily available trade blades which were quite present in these trade routes. With the Portuguese presence in Muscat, it is worthy of note that many of these blades in the 16th and 17th centuries were German produced, and quite present in India as well. In India, in fact, the term 'firangi' used for many straight blades used on the swords of khanda and pata type is believed to transliterate to 'Portuguese' and loosely 'foreign'. The trade with India's western Malabar Coast, as well as with the northern areas including Baluchistan might well account for not only the arrival of these blades initiating the newer and simpler hilted kattaras, but might well be the source for the swordplay and dance, which is mentioned in Burton (1884).
He notes on p.163, "...the swordplay of North Africa is that of Arabia and India, apparantly borrowed from the original sword dance". He references the'sword dance' having been Thracian, and describes high leaps and circling performance which included feigned wounding etc.

Similar type swordplay is noted by Halliburton (1935) who went into remote tribal regions high in the Caucusus in Georgia, where the Khevsur people duel with similar actions. The fighters crouch with one knee near the ground. They use small light shields to parry, and they jump about with amazing agility, in circles and trying to outmanuever and exchange blows with thier swords.
In studying the arms of these regions, there seem to be distinct influences from India, as well as of course from Islamic oriented sources, though they are animists and in Orthodox Christian areas in Georgia.

Getting back to the variants of the simple cylinder hilt kattara, again, this is just basically a hilt form which may have evolved as previously noted, as an easy to produce style adjusting to the blades becoming available through trade. With the curved sabre blades, the primary association with the shashka is that in many cases the same type trade blades were used. These same blades turned up on many sabres in many countries. Similar blades are seen on tulwars, Syrian shamshirs, and virtually throughout areas with ports of call visited by these traders. The sabre became more popular through the 19th century with European colonial contact and more availability of these kinds of blades.

I would like to thank you as well for such well placed comments and observations, and am most humbled by your kind compliments, thank you so much,

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
In discussions of what we have been referring to as the Omani short sword, with the hilt having drooping quillons, this does seem to carry traditional hilt form values of very early swords, and I think your suggestion on the Abbasid association is quite plausible.

I also agree that these quite likely might have existed for quite a long period and concurrently with the evolving simple cylinder hilt 'long kattaras'. The early form swords were as noted, most likely to have remained in use in the tribally controlled interior regions of Oman, and these regions and tribes were notably conservative. It is interesting that the Omanis from early times did have considerable contact and influence with the Baluchi's in regions of what is now Pakistan. These were people of Iranian origins with heritage from Mesopotamia. It would seem, without entering into the complexities of the previous Abbasid associations, that these connections would add further support for the quite ancient associations to the hilt style.

I believe that Elgood's comments noting the strong ties between Baluchistan and Oman were well placed, as seems to be quite supportable here.

With Muscat being the primary coastal center of power and of trade from early times, it does seem that it was exposed to considerably more influence from foreign powers, and that in later times would have been more inclined to deviate from the conservative forms of the interior tribal regions. While it is known that with the maritime trade, the short nim'cha, cutlass type sabres which seem to have come in from Yemen in many cases would of course have been well known aboard the vessels, it would appear that the developing variety of 'long kattara' was favored by persons of standing, particularly merchants.

As previously noted, these were likely a simplified version of broadsword using readily available trade blades which were quite present in these trade routes. With the Portuguese presence in Muscat, it is worthy of note that many of these blades in the 16th and 17th centuries were German produced, and quite present in India as well. In India, in fact, the term 'firangi' used for many straight blades used on the swords of khanda and pata type is believed to transliterate to 'Portuguese' and loosely 'foreign'. The trade with India's western Malabar Coast, as well as with the northern areas including Baluchistan might well account for not only the arrival of these blades initiating the newer and simpler hilted kattaras, but might well be the source for the swordplay and dance, which is mentioned in Burton (1884).
He notes on p.163, "...the swordplay of North Africa is that of Arabia and India, apparantly borrowed from the original sword dance". He references the'sword dance' having been Thracian, and describes high leaps and circling performance which included feigned wounding etc.

Similar type swordplay is noted by Halliburton (1935) who went into remote tribal regions high in the Caucusus in Georgia, where the Khevsur people duel with similar actions. The fighters crouch with one knee near the ground. They use small light shields to parry, and they jump about with amazing agility, in circles and trying to outmanuever and exchange blows with thier swords.
In studying the arms of these regions, there seem to be distinct influences from India, as well as of course from Islamic oriented sources, though they are animists and in Orthodox Christian areas in Georgia.

Getting back to the variants of the simple cylinder hilt kattara, again, this is just basically a hilt form which may have evolved as previously noted, as an easy to produce style adjusting to the blades becoming available through trade. With the curved sabre blades, the primary association with the shashka is that in many cases the same type trade blades were used. These same blades turned up on many sabres in many countries. Similar blades are seen on tulwars, Syrian shamshirs, and virtually throughout areas with ports of call visited by these traders. The sabre became more popular through the 19th century with European colonial contact and more availability of these kinds of blades.

I would like to thank you as well for such well placed comments and observations, and am most humbled by your kind compliments, thank you so much,

All the very best,
Jim


Salaams ~ Thank you for your superb reply.
Whilst we may have to some extent refined the origin of the Omani Short Battle Sword (turned down quillons) and to some extent the shaska and european influence plus some inroads into the long curved sayf; the question on Omani Kattara still lies unsolved. On this subject I think I am ready to lay down my pen until such time as a suitable reference is discovered either by another forum member or by us perhaps from one of the Omani museums or cultural institutions.

I admit to running out of reference material at this point, however, I believe the Razha hold the key, though I also think Zanzibar, whilst fascinating in many aspects, is a diversion along with the entire African sword development history which I think has no bearing at all on the Omani Kattara ~ The Straight Omani Long flexible two edged spattula tipped sword with the conical handle. However the entire subject of African weapons is extremely interesting and fascinating a subject that I have ever studied.

Both in support of your letter and in defence of mine I offer a small reference from the web (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.)

"A war dance is a dance involving mock combat, usually in reference to tribal warrior societies where such dances were performed as a ritual connected with endemic warfare. Martial arts in various cultures can be performed in dance-like settings for various reasons, such as for evoking ferocity in preparation for battle or showing off skill in a more stylized manner. Many such martial arts incorporate music, especially strong percussive rhythms. Examples of such war dances include: is a martial art traditionally performed with a dance-like flavor and to live musical accompaniment";
* A'rda - In Kuwait.:* El-Tahteeb in upper Egypt:* Buza - From Russia.:* Panther Dance - Burmese Bando with swords (dha):* Gymnopaidiai - ancient Sparta:* European Sword dance or Weapon dance of various kinds:* Haka - New Zealand:* Indlamu (Zulu):* Khorumi - Georgia:* Sabre Dance - depicted in Khachaturian's ballet Gayane:* Maasai moran (warrior age-set) dances:* Aduk-Aduk - Brunei:* Ayyalah - Qatar:* Khattak Dance - Afghanistan and Pakistan:* Brazil's Capoeira, as well as some similar Afro-Caribbean arts:* Dannsa Biodag - Scotland and Scottish sword dances:* Hula & Lua - from the traditions of indigenous Hawaiian:* Combat Hopak - From Ukraine:* Yolah - From Oman/UAE"

(the following added by Ibrahiim) And specific to Oman The Razha.

The question isn’t so much on comparison between different countries dance but when in the case of Oman did Razha start? If that can be discovered then the story of the Omani Kattara can be better understood. The indicators are that since Oman was largely a closed society at war with itself and isolated because of mountains and deserts and to some extent sea… external influence was very reduced. Oman only really emerged from the middle ages in the mid to late 20th century. It is suggested that here the effect of systems / weapon freeze was very much in evidence. It is in precisely these conditions that folklore and cultural tradition flourish.

I shall try to uncover more facts about the Razha whilst maintaining my suspicion (unproven) that it entered Omani folklore in about the 9th century. :shrug:

Regards
Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I agree that we have pretty much reached the point where we obviously need more key information that would offer clues to enable our moving further, but I am really glad we have been able to move this far. You;re right that information from either museums or academic institutions in Oman, Zanzibar and Mali might have more revealing data.

I agree also that the Razha is strongly associated with the long kattara and that the spatulate tip is indicative of the type of sweeping, slashing cuts used in wielding these swords. I have always thought it interesting that this feature is characteristic on the takouba of the Sahara, while its cousin, the broadsword kaskara in Sudan uses a spear type point.

More needs to be learned on the chronological history and development of the Razha, and if it can be determined culturally where it is likely to have come from. Burton suggests the Thracians, but then, was this the same type dance? More research needed as always, but very much enjoying discussing this with you!

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I agree that we have pretty much reached the point where we obviously need more key information that would offer clues to enable our moving further, but I am really glad we have been able to move this far. You;re right that information from either museums or academic institutions in Oman, Zanzibar and Mali might have more revealing data.

I agree also that the Razha is strongly associated with the long kattara and that the spatulate tip is indicative of the type of sweeping, slashing cuts used in wielding these swords. I have always thought it interesting that this feature is characteristic on the takouba of the Sahara, while its cousin, the broadsword kaskara in Sudan uses a spear type point.

More needs to be learned on the chronological history and development of the Razha, and if it can be determined culturally where it is likely to have come from. Burton suggests the Thracians, but then, was this the same type dance? More research needed as always, but very much enjoying discussing this with you!

All the best,
Jim


Jim McDougall.
Salaams,
I have almost completed my initial research on Omani Folklore and have unearthed some fairly spectacular information. I propose to publish this to you as soon as I can and certainly inside the next few days. Not to put too fine a point on it (no pun intended) most people would fall over laughing if someone suggested that the Omani Kattara was 10th century and folks would fall off their chairs if it was shown to be 7th .... The implications of such a story and the potential relationship with the Omani Short Battle Sword are mind boggling.
Please allow me a few days to generate the paper. :shrug:

Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Jim McDougall.
Salaams,
I have almost completed my initial research on Omani Folklore and have unearthed some fairly spectacular information. I propose to publish this to you as soon as I can and certainly inside the next few days. Not to put too fine a point on it (no pun intended) most people would fall over laughing if someone suggested that the Omani Kattara was 10th century and folks would fall off their chairs if it was shown to be 7th .... The implications of such a story and the potential relationship with the Omani Short Battle Sword are mind boggling.
Please allow me a few days to generate the paper. :shrug:

Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim,
This is most exciting news, and I know you have been probing this subject deeply. As you note there may be some consternation with assessing such early period for these swords mostly associated with relatively modern times in the Omani sphere of influence, however supported theory can be very compelling. It is wonderful that you have taken such a serious approach to the study of the development of these fascinating weapons, and I am really looking forward to your work !!

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
This is most exciting news, and I know you have been probing this subject deeply. As you note there may be some consternation with assessing such early period for these swords mostly associated with relatively modern times in the Omani sphere of influence, however supported theory can be very compelling. It is wonderful that you have taken such a serious approach to the study of the development of these fascinating weapons, and I am really looking forward to your work !!

All the very best,
Jim


Jim McDougall.

Salaams,
By way of introduction I intend to show the origin and date of the Omani Long Kattara and the relationship with Omani Short Battle Sword. I intend to prove that both weapons stem from the same concept and that the two are branches of the same sword from the late 7th Century AD. In so doing I also intend to show that the original Long Kattara was exported to Saudia where it froze as a design and can in fact be viewed at Michael Blalocks excellent pictures of it in a Riyadh Souk and at a Yemeni Museum on Arabian Swords #1.

My main research into Omani Folklore; specifically focusses upon the traditional music, poetry and dance of Oman and my main reference is www.octm-folk.gov.om/meng/rhythem.asp I have avoided putting it as a footnote as it runs on to many pages.

Oman adopted Islam in the late 7th century and within a very short term had modified its style following that of the Ibadi Islamic structure. Religious linkage with traditional Omani music is well known and the first layer or strata of music(the most important) and dance celebrates this. This "genre" of music at the start of Omani Islamic adoption is called the FUNUN.

In celebration of the memorable annual dates in the Islamic calendar, in particular the two Eid periods and at weddings, certain fixed ritual music and dance patterns emerged. One group of dances accompanied by music, especially drums, was the Razha. "The Sword Dance".

There are several subcategories of Omani Long Kattara sword dance display. The first is with the swords (without shields) paraded in front of the onlookers. Performers swagger to the drumbeat occasionally tossing their swords high in the air and catching them clean by the hilt whilst others leap in the air causing the swords to buzz by clever flick of the wrists. The second form is where two performers mimic a swordfight using Kattara and Buckler Shield urged on by the drums ..The aim being to touch the opponents thumb though in the event of no result a third referee cuts the air between the opponents with his sword to end the set.

The importance of music dance and poetry cannot be over emphasised since it has grown to scores of different performances reflecting sea exploration, trade and war with far off lands~ indeed Oman was trading with the Chinese in the mid 7th Century and later with the west coast of India (Malibar coast) and Africa as well as Persia and its close neighbors. The different genres within traditional music dance and poetry of Oman reflect these occurences and the different beat and tone as well as the dance indicate the provenance like a fingerprint so that you can see where the influence is say, Portuguese or tribal African or a seagoing episode or camel journeying. Each belongs to a separate volume, strata or genre but vitally they are all passed down from generation to generation illustrating the history and lives of Oman before. What is peculiar about the forms is that each has a totally different beat like a fingerprint which makes each performance traceable as each set of music is so unique. Music is after all a mathematical sequence. Different regions Mussandam or Salalah for example have separate genres like tha Jebali Khanjar dance for example.

However The Razha is in the Funun and the Funun was the first and most important of the music and dance traditions cemented around the newly adopted Islamic religion in the late 7th Century. The sword and shield used in the Razha are the Long Kattara and Terrs.

This traditional body of work of Omani poetry, music and dance are very much alive today having been passed down the line for 1300 years.

Please view Michael Blalocks excellent pictures of a sword in a Riyadh Souk and at a Yemeni Museum "posted on Arabian Swords #1".
You may also wish to see the pictures previously put by me of the Omani Short Battle Sword to compare hilts. Plus you may also note the rounded spatula tip in Michaels picture. Could this be related?

In my previous script you will note that I attached the Omani Short Battle Sword as a development of the Abbasid sword being used against Oman in the 7th and 8th Centuries by the Garrison from Baghdad in Oman. In that post I pointed out that the hilt was a celebration of the adoption of Ibadi Islam and I believe it is almost identical to the Long hilt in #1

I believe that there were two swords and both evolved with a similar hilt but with different blades at about the same time. The Short and The Long. Two different swords for two different purposes The short for close infighting possibly with a big shield (now lost)... and the Long for use with the Terrs . Interestingly the Omanis still call both swords by the same name (Kattara). I believe that the Long Kattara eventually superceded the Short simply because it was more popular in its secondary role in traditional celebrations..though it can be proven that both weapons(and others) were iconic badges of office until now. Anyway there were plenty of places the short weapon was good for.. on board ship... in fortresses and amongst fortified villages...The long sword better in the wide open spaces.. The two swords continued to be used for many centuries side by side.

It has to be remembered that for centuries Oman was essentially two countries or one country at war with itself i.e. The Interior versus the Coastal Belt. Even in the mid 20th Century it was still known as Muscat and Oman ! Muscat was capital on the Coast whilst the seat of power in the interior was at Nizwa which as it happens was also the centre for Ibadi Islam.


Trade from the interior was with the rest of Arabia etc through the empty quarter in what is now Saudi Arabia, though then, in the early days, it was all one big massive tribal jigsaw puzzle. Trade in swords, slaves, dates and other products from Nizwa to Arabia by camel caravans would have been standard practise as no trade would have been possible with Muscat. Export and technical freezing of the original Long Kattara as seen at the reference could easily have happened and what we see today in that photo is I believe the Omani Long Kattara in near original form.

So what happened to the Long Kattara hilt? It evolved.. not in Saudia but in Oman. Perhaps the jolting in both its uses as a dance weapon and as a fighting weapon the old handle was prone to breaking apart. Certainly the degree of vibration up into the cruder handle on the #1 Long Kattara would be substantial and as sword making became more modernised the technical ability to make a sword tang and pommel as one piece simply hatched. Timescale?.. The transition to conical hilt? I have no idea but even as late as the introduction of European trade blades.. and so the old handle was simply superceded.

In conclusion I argue that both the Omani Long and Short Kattara are two branches of the same weapon which evolved in the late 7th Century and used in the interior (Dhakiliya) against the Coast of Oman and in support of the Ibadi religious seat which retained the music and Ibadi dance traditions until today. The Razha ( Sword Dance ) is part of the Funun and the two can be date matched to the start of Islam in Oman. I further argue that the virtually identical sword hilt at #1 to the Omani Short speaks volumes and that it is the original Omani Long Kattara frozen in time having been exported centuries ago. :shrug:

Regards,

Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Note to Forum.
Comparison with Topkapi Museum Abbasid Sword and Omani Short Battle Sword under discussion currently and argued by me as 7TH / 8th C.

Salaams,
I happen to be restoring an Omani Short Battle Sword and I realised that I had missed a characteristic repeated on both swords (Abbasid Sword and Omani Short Battle Sword) and placed on the Forum earlier by me outlining 10 similarities in the two swords :

I believe this is similar characteristic~

no 11. Both handles are octagonal in cross section.

Can this vital point be added to my original letter outlining the similarities please perhaps as a footnote or as advised by Moderator Staff.

Shukran,
Regards Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I have been completely intrigued by your writing on this in what I consider absolutely superb scholarship in presenting theory and support concerning these variations of the Omani 'kattara'.
I have also added your excellent observation concerning the octagonal cross section in the hilts on many of the earlier examples to the itemized list of points in your earlier post as requested. I would like to note here that the domed pommel on these is remarkably similar to some minarets as seen in the Mosque of al-Hakim in Cairo (attachment below). One of the prevalent characteristics of hilt construction in many instances is compellingly associated with architectural features of these kinds of religious structures.
Regarding your note on the octagonal cross section, many minarets and elements of structure in mosques have eight sided features.

One of the most pleasing and rewarding aspects of our discourse on studying these swords is that it perfectly illustrates the importance of considering so many ancillary aspects in the way we look at them. With the sword obviously being a combat weapon, many would wonder what in the world would dancing amd music have to do with this? As you have well shown, the anthropology of these dance traditions, and in particular the rhythms with drums that accompany them, not only preserve these traditions, but have well served as martially oriented honing of skills in handling these weapons.

Much in the way that hunting often served not only the important purpose of supplying food, which kepts skills with weapons at optimum levels, these kinds of martial 'dances' were actually a kind of training exercise in my view.
Being familiar with the weight and balance of a weapon, and perfecting instinctively reactive movements using them seems of course well placed, and essential at combat skills. It has long been known how important music and accompanying movements have been since earliest times, even to the shamanistic rituals of prehistory. The rhythmic beat of drums and certain other instruments carrying melodic accompaniment certainly has dramatic impact in psychotropic perspective, as well as chants, singing, etc. and the link to the Omani funun you attached is fascinating.

As I mentioned earlier, it is I think most important to go sort of 'long form' is describing these weapons as we discuss them, although the seemingly more general term 'kattara' of course applies generally. I agree that the short battle sword likely was developed and maintained in the inland sectors of Oman. These regions were as previously mentioned, notably conservative and distinct adherents of the Ibadi sect of Islam, and which appears to have evolved just a short time after the death of the Prophet Mohammed in 632C.E. The Ibadiyya seems to have extended into Zanzibar and regions in East and North Africa

The development of these short battle swords are most likely as you suggest, developed from the Abbasid type swords, but the actual form as far as I have been able to find resources on, seems unclear. In "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths", (the late Dr. Unsal Yucel, Istanbul, 1986.).. it is noted that no Abbasid hilts are known and he suggests they were probably closer in form to Mamluk/Syrian types of 14th c. (AD). He does note that some of the earliest Arab miniatures (c. 13th c. AD) reflect hilts having downturned quillons.

While trade contact with coastal regions in Muscat would have been prohibitive obviously for the tribal groups of interior Oman, as you note there were trade contacts in place into the Rub al Khali which connected to other parts of Arabia and Syria in network. With considerably more diverse external influences from many countries it would seem likely that the break from the more conservative weapon would take place in this context. The development of the cylindrical, sans quillons hilt it would seem to me would as you note probably be in accord with the Razha tradition as the longer unobstructed handle would lend well to the elaborate movements and catching the sword hilt.

The well established tradition of the blunt tip was from early times, where the thrust was not favored and chopping or slashing moves were used. The short heavy blade sabre forms you have described with the karabela style hilts and resembling cutlasses were of course more inclined to maritime use and the coastal trade regions in Muscat. These trade connections by sea to Yemen were likely how these were received as well as the manner the 'long kattara' form went to Yemen (as seem in Michaels post Arabian Swords 2009). It is indeed most interesting to see the vestiges of the interior (possibly we might designate these short battle swords of 'Nizwa' form?) style hilt on the example in the souk in Riyadh. I am not sure this represents a developmental form or a contemporary hybridization though. If more corroborating examples were found of course it would be more compelling. It is a captivating example and definitely worth following further though.
Seeing the old 'minaret' style pommel grafted to the collared and segmented shaft without the familiar drooping quillons is truly a tempting variation.

Regarding the leather covered examples of the 'shashka' type profile hilt which seem to be found with various blades, I think these are most likely Bedouin examples from varying contact tribes further into the Rub al Khali and along established routes. Through intertribal contact and trade these seem to be of a Bedouin type which extends throughout their territories throughout Arabia and into the Sinai regions.
The use of curved blades of course is favored as they are more pragmatically applied to mounted use.

This is truly a fascinating discussion Ibrahiim, and I hope we can keep looking more into these kattara, and your work is outstanding, Im truly learning a great deal here!!! :) and I thank you so much.

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams,
I have a brief note to add as an advisory on a more precise date for the Omani Kattaras which I put more toward the end of the 8th Century A.D. since Oman adopted Islam in 630 A.D. however, it is the Ibadi sect we are concerned with and that only transpired in the early 8th Century AD.(about 710) Allowing for time to settle and inform the masses my estimate would be mid to late in the 8th C. My target date therefor is 751AD; Religion, tradition, swords and all. 751AD.
This date to be further supported in my next addition to the Forum expected later today. :shrug:

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
4/6/2011.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I have been completely intrigued by your writing on this in what I consider absolutely superb scholarship in presenting theory and support concerning these variations of the Omani 'kattara'.
I have also added your excellent observation concerning the octagonal cross section in the hilts on many of the earlier examples to the itemized list of points in your earlier post as requested. I would like to note here that the domed pommel on these is remarkably similar to some minarets as seen in the Mosque of al-Hakim in Cairo (attachment below). One of the prevalent characteristics of hilt construction in many instances is compellingly associated with architectural features of these kinds of religious structures.
Regarding your note on the octagonal cross section, many minarets and elements of structure in mosques have eight sided features.

One of the most pleasing and rewarding aspects of our discourse on studying these swords is that it perfectly illustrates the importance of considering so many ancillary aspects in the way we look at them. With the sword obviously being a combat weapon, many would wonder what in the world would dancing amd music have to do with this? As you have well shown, the anthropology of these dance traditions, and in particular the rhythms with drums that accompany them, not only preserve these traditions, but have well served as martially oriented honing of skills in handling these weapons.

Much in the way that hunting often served not only the important purpose of supplying food, which kepts skills with weapons at optimum levels, these kinds of martial 'dances' were actually a kind of training exercise in my view.
Being familiar with the weight and balance of a weapon, and perfecting instinctively reactive movements using them seems of course well placed, and essential at combat skills. It has long been known how important music and accompanying movements have been since earliest times, even to the shamanistic rituals of prehistory. The rhythmic beat of drums and certain other instruments carrying melodic accompaniment certainly has dramatic impact in psychotropic perspective, as well as chants, singing, etc. and the link to the Omani funun you attached is fascinating.

As I mentioned earlier, it is I think most important to go sort of 'long form' is describing these weapons as we discuss them, although the seemingly more general term 'kattara' of course applies generally. I agree that the short battle sword likely was developed and maintained in the inland sectors of Oman. These regions were as previously mentioned, notably conservative and distinct adherents of the Ibadi sect of Islam, and which appears to have evolved just a short time after the death of the Prophet Mohammed in 632C.E. The Ibadiyya seems to have extended into Zanzibar and regions in East and North Africa

The development of these short battle swords are most likely as you suggest, developed from the Abbasid type swords, but the actual form as far as I have been able to find resources on, seems unclear. In "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths", (the late Dr. Unsal Yucel, Istanbul, 1986.).. it is noted that no Abbasid hilts are known and he suggests they were probably closer in form to Mamluk/Syrian types of 14th c. (AD). He does note that some of the earliest Arab miniatures (c. 13th c. AD) reflect hilts having downturned quillons.

While trade contact with coastal regions in Muscat would have been prohibitive obviously for the tribal groups of interior Oman, as you note there were trade contacts in place into the Rub al Khali which connected to other parts of Arabia and Syria in network. With considerably more diverse external influences from many countries it would seem likely that the break from the more conservative weapon would take place in this context. The development of the cylindrical, sans quillons hilt it would seem to me would as you note probably be in accord with the Razha tradition as the longer unobstructed handle would lend well to the elaborate movements and catching the sword hilt.

The well established tradition of the blunt tip was from early times, where the thrust was not favored and chopping or slashing moves were used. The short heavy blade sabre forms you have described with the karabela style hilts and resembling cutlasses were of course more inclined to maritime use and the coastal trade regions in Muscat. These trade connections by sea to Yemen were likely how these were received as well as the manner the 'long kattara' form went to Yemen (as seem in Michaels post Arabian Swords 2009). It is indeed most interesting to see the vestiges of the interior (possibly we might designate these short battle swords of 'Nizwa' form?) style hilt on the example in the souk in Riyadh. I am not sure this represents a developmental form or a contemporary hybridization though. If more corroborating examples were found of course it would be more compelling. It is a captivating example and definitely worth following further though.
Seeing the old 'minaret' style pommel grafted to the collared and segmented shaft without the familiar drooping quillons is truly a tempting variation.

Regarding the leather covered examples of the 'shashka' type profile hilt which seem to be found with various blades, I think these are most likely Bedouin examples from varying contact tribes further into the Rub al Khali and along established routes. Through intertribal contact and trade these seem to be of a Bedouin type which extends throughout their territories throughout Arabia and into the Sinai regions.
The use of curved blades of course is favored as they are more pragmatically applied to mounted use.

This is truly a fascinating discussion Ibrahiim, and I hope we can keep looking more into these kattara, and your work is outstanding, Im truly learning a great deal here!!! :) and I thank you so much.

All the best,
Jim

Salaams, Jim.

Salaams,
Dear Jim, Thank you for your immediate and excellent reply. I wonder if I may reply using your text and answering each paragraph in blue?

I suspect that we have pushed the envelope on origins and dates of this sword group to the ultimate. Many theorists, authors and museums attribute the Long Omani Kattara to the 17th Century whilst the Short has even been suggested as 14th or recently quite daringly to the 10th Century AD almost without a reasoned proof. Placing both weapons as Ibadi Omani Islamic at inception demolishes previous guestimates. I am confident that the whole body of work will convince specialists and future authors, therefore, I request please, that you act for the Forum in presenting the situation correctly. Imagine the repercussions throughout the ethnographic arms world? They will be astonished._______________________________________ _
Hi Ibrahiim,
I have been completely intrigued by your writing on this in what I consider absolutely superb scholarship in presenting theory and support concerning these variations of the Omani 'kattara'.
I have also added your excellent observation concerning the octagonal cross section in the hilts on many of the earlier examples to the itemized list of points in your earlier post as requested. I would like to note here that the domed pommel on these is remarkably similar to some minarets as seen in the Mosque of al-Hakim in Cairo (attachment below). One of the prevalent characteristics of hilt construction in many instances is compellingly associated with architectural features of these kinds of religious structures.
Regarding your note on the octagonal cross section, many minarets and elements of structure in mosques have eight sided features.

Thank you for amending my hilt comparison list with the Omani Short Battle Sword and the Topkapi Abbasid Sword. Your observations are splendid and underscore the Islamic nature of the hilt. I note that some later hilts were copies and did not follow the octagonal approach but the sword I am restoring and many others I have handled I now realize are octagonal original style The domed Pommel of course is Islamic. The Islamic Arch. The turned down Quillons are not only aesthetic and possibly Islamic designs but completely practical. The Pommel not only a counter balance but a spike for close in combat. Intrigue is added by the rather odd collar however that makes practical sense so as to protect the guard and make a tight scabbard fit. Perhaps this weapon carried a shield and of similar form but bigger than the Terrs?

One of the most pleasing and rewarding aspects of our discourse on studying these swords is that it perfectly illustrates the importance of considering so many ancillary aspects in the way we look at them. With the sword obviously being a combat weapon, many would wonder what in the world would dancing amd music have to do with this? As you have well shown, the anthropology of these dance traditions, and in particular the rhythms with drums that accompany them, not only preserve these traditions, but have well served as martially oriented honing of skills in handling these weapons.

Even the local people couldn’t understand why I was examining music and dance!! The Razha certainly developed as a martial art exercise and was locked into the history as it was passed down unchanged through the ages. People couldn’t all read and write, therefore, passing down tradition through music dance and poetry was the method of transition.

Much in the way that hunting often served not only the important purpose of supplying food, which kepts skills with weapons at optimum levels, these kinds of martial 'dances' were actually a kind of training exercise in my view.
Being familiar with the weight and balance of a weapon, and perfecting instinctively reactive movements using them seems of course well placed, and essential at combat skills. It has long been known how important music and accompanying movements have been since earliest times, even to the shamanistic rituals of prehistory. The rhythmic beat of drums and certain other instruments carrying melodic accompaniment certainly has dramatic impact in psychotropic perspective, as well as chants, singing, etc. and the link to the Omani funun you attached is fascinating.

The vital point was attaching the Razha to the Funun and therefore a date as the adoption date of Islam in Oman. The key indicator was the small note in the British Viziers journal in 1931 at Zanzibar when he said that the sword dance, The Razha, was done by Omani not Zanzibari people.

As I mentioned earlier, it is I think most important to go sort of 'long form' is describing these weapons as we discuss them, although the seemingly more general term 'kattara' of course applies generally. I agree that the short battle sword likely was developed and maintained in the inland sectors of Oman. These regions were as previously mentioned, notably conservative and distinct adherents of the Ibadi sect of Islam, and which appears to have evolved just a short time after the death of the Prophet Mohammed in 632C.E. The Ibadiyya seems to have extended into Zanzibar and regions in East and North Africa

I agree that both kattara long and short went to the inland Ibadi half of Oman(in due course) and locked because of tradition and geographical isolation. From there the old long was exported or seeped into what is now Saudi Arabia and possibly Yemen.

The development of these short battle swords are most likely as you suggest, developed from the Abbasid type swords, but the actual form as far as I have been able to find resources on, seems unclear. In "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths", (the late Dr. Unsal Yucel, Istanbul, 1986.).. it is noted that no Abbasid hilts are known and he suggests they were probably closer in form to Mamluk/Syrian types of 14th c. (AD). He does note that some of the earliest Arab miniatures (c. 13th c. AD) reflect hilts having downturned quillons.

Perhaps the Topkapi resource had not received the Abbasid sword by 1986? The Abbasid Garrison in Oman must have had that weapon.

The delicate question of precise date needs to be looked at. Oman did adopt Islam in 630 AD however Ibadi Islam did not fully take hold until a while after that. It was not until early in the 8th C that Ibadi religion was accepted. I think it fair to add some slip time before everything was functioning as an Ibadi state and the support structures of Islamic Instruction through missionaries (internal and external) plus learning doctrines, schools, mosques, etc were well founded. Therefore perhaps a fair date would be late 8th C. to early 9th C. Ibadiism plus weapons plus traditions. This allows for developments against the Abbasids and the key element of Ibadi religion as the driving force. It can be seen that: The first Ibadhi Imam, Julanda bin Mas'ud, was elected in 751 AD but that he was killed in battle and consolidation only occurred in 801.

To be fair to the first Ibadi Imam Julanda bin Mas'ud, I urge the new amended and consolidated date of 751 AD when he was elected as the most plausible date for the birth of both Kattara Swords. A second plausible and earlier date may exist because Jabr Ibn Zaid who was the first leader in the oman struggle had been in Iraq and would have seen the Abbasid swords and perhaps transmitted the technology to Oman when he arrived therefor an earlier date would be perhaps 730 AD

While trade contact with coastal regions in Muscat would have been prohibitive obviously for the tribal groups of interior Oman, as you note there were trade contacts in place into the Rub al Khali which connected to other parts of Arabia and Syria in network. With considerably more diverse external influences from many countries it would seem likely that the break from the more conservative weapon would take place in this context. The development of the cylindrical, sans quillons hilt it would seem to me would as you note probably be in accord with the Razha tradition as the longer unobstructed handle would lend well to the elaborate movements and catching the sword hilt.

(As a cautionary note it needs to be realized that although there was early turmoil with the Abbasids that after they left, Oman was one country for about 300 years before entering a disjointed period of war with itself on and off down the ages)

The flat cylindrical hilt on the long kattara (integral tang blade and pommel) and without quillons or collar developed in due course though when is beyond me. It could have come as late as the introduction of European trade blades. It is a diversion I suspect. The true original long kattara became frozen as an export to neighboring tribes now in Saudia (and possibly Yemen)

The well established tradition of the blunt tip was from early times, where the thrust was not favored and chopping or slashing moves were used. The short heavy blade sabre forms you have described with the karabela style hilts and resembling cutlasses were of course more inclined to maritime use and the coastal trade regions in Muscat. These trade connections by sea to Yemen were likely how these were received as well as the manner the 'long kattara' form went to Yemen (as seem in Michaels post Arabian Swords 2009). It is indeed most interesting to see the vestiges of the interior (possibly we might designate these short battle swords of 'Nizwa' form?) style hilt on the example in the souk in Riyadh. I am not sure this represents a developmental form or a contemporary hybridization though. If more corroborating examples were found of course it would be more compelling. It is a captivating example and definitely worth following further though.
Seeing the old 'minaret' style pommel grafted to the collared and segmented shaft without the familiar drooping quillons is truly a tempting variation.

I think the stretched hilt form shown in the Riyadh and Yemen museum picture is original in style though may contain some hybrid changes such as a tubular hilt cross section. I have handled two such swords in Muscat and have photos already put to the forum earlier. This seems to me to be the forerunner to the conical flat hilt. Flat spatula tips seem early and could pre-date Islam. As a cautionary note it needs to be realized that although there was early turmoil with the Abbasids that after they left, Oman was one country for about 300 years before entering a disjointed period of war with itself on and off down the ages. It is most probable that the swords transmitted throughout all of Oman at that time though the very strong Ibadi links were in the interior and remained so.


Regarding the leather covered examples of the 'shashka' type profile hilt which seem to be found with various blades, I think these are most likely Bedouin examples from varying contact tribes further into the Rub al Khali and along established routes. Through intertribal contact and trade these seem to be of a Bedouin type which extends throughout their territories throughout Arabia and into the Sinai regions.
The use of curved blades of course is favored as they are more pragmatically applied to mounted use.

I'm not sure if that is the case here. Short, curved, single edges are certainly ideal on board ships. I'm unclear as to what extent Oman used mounted infantry? What I do know is these swords are being made in Ras Al Khaimah today in that form therefore a maritime link is more likely in the case of Ras Al Khaimer at least?

This is truly a fascinating discussion Ibrahiim, and I hope we can keep looking more into these kattara, and your work is outstanding, Im truly learning a great deal here!!! and I thank you so much.


All the best,
Jim

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.





Notes ; The majority of Omanis are Ibadhi Muslims, followers of Abd Allah ibn Ibad. This sector is closely followed by Sunni Muslims. The Shi'a minority live along Al Batinah and Muscat coasts. This minority includes the Al-Lawatis, the Bahranis of Bahrain descent, and the Ajam, of vague origin but generally considered to originate in Iran.
Many people think that Ibadism is an outgrowth of the Kharijites movement, a variant form of Islam practiced by descendants of a sect that seceded from the principal Muslim body after the death of the Prophet Muhammad in 632. Ibadies, however, deney this notion considering themselves ougrowthing from the famous follower (tabe'e) Jabir bin Zaid. Ibadies reject primogeniture succession of the Quraysh, the tribe of Muhammad, and assert that leadership of Islam, the caliphate, should be designated by an imam elected by the community from candidates who possess spiritual and personal qualities. Ibadhi leadership is vested in an imam, who is regarded as the sole legitimate leader and combines religious and political authority. The imam is elected by a council of prominent laymen or shaykhs. Adherence to Ibadism accounts in part for Oman's historical isolation. Ibadis were not inclined to integrate with their neighbours, as the majority of Sunni Muslims regard Ibadism as a heretical form of Islam.

Definition: Ibadiyah, or Abadiyah, is a moderate sect in Islam founded in the early 8th century in Oman by the scholar Jabir ibn Zayd al-Azid (d. 711), who was exiled to Oman by the governor of Basra in present-day south Iraq.
Ibadiyah Islam is a milder form of Khariji Islam, accepting coexistence with other Islamic sects and non-Muslims to a degree. Ibadiyahs originally believed in electing their imam and, in a characteristic familiar to any modern-day Jeffersonian, never abide tyranny. Paradoxically, the Ibadi ruler is invested with absolute authority over his followers, though he can be deposed if he does not follow the law.
Ibadiyah Islam flourished under the leadership of Aby Ubaydah Muslim ibn Abi Karimah, who trained missionaries and sent them across the Arab world as far as the Maghreb in North Africa and throughout Oman in hopoes of establishing a pan-Islamic Ibadi community. The movement took hold only in Oman, where it persists to this day.


The early Imamate in Oman arose out of a vision to create the true and ideal Muslim state. The first Ibadhi Imam, Julanda bin Mas'ud, was elected in 751 AD but he died in battle and it was not until 801 AD after a period of turmoil that Warith bin Kaab was elected. There then followed a period of peace, stability and prosperity lasting more than three hundred years.

[ariel]

Every ethnicity that was using swords as weapons had a dance with swords. No surprise here.
Just to clarify. I have never heard of a Russian sword dance called Buza. Dance with Sabers by Khachaturyan is a choreografic invention. While there were caucasian sword dances in the Caucasus, Khachaturyan's 's example cannot serve as an authentic evidence. Ukrainian Combat Hopak is a recent invention of Ukrainian nationalists claiming that most, if not all, Western culture stems from an ancient tribe called Ukr and that Sanskrit is just a bastardized ancient Ukrainian language ( I am not joking). Hopak is an old Ukrainian dance and has nothing to do with swords or martial arts ( unless we call every male dance martial). Combat Hopak is just an amalgam of Tae Quon Do, karate and a host of other east asian martial arts performed while wearing voluminous ukrainian pants. Fake from the beginning to the end. Generally all sword dances are just examples of male strutting. Re-phrasing Eli Wallach in " The good, the bad and the ugly", If you want to cut, cut. Don't dance.
Old Omani Kattara looks to me like an ossified tradition of pre-islamic arabian swords. See old mamluk swords in Yucel's and Aydin's books.
Daghestani armourers at the end of the 19th century made their living by mass-exporting their rather poorly-made blades to Arabia ( perhaps, the connection was via tens of thousands of Circassian and Daghestanis emigrating to the Ottoman lands in the 1870's). Shamil died in Medina, his son not far from there.

[Jim McDougall]

Once again, outstanding response Ibrahiim! and I like very much your itemized responses to the various lines of my post, the blue letters work well.

I am unclear on what is meant by your request of my acting for the forum though, as my input is simply my own opinions and observations based on my own research. As I understand our discussion here is meant to evaluate the possibilities for discovering the possible source for what we have agreed to term the 'short battle sword' as well as the development and relationship of the 'long' kattara to these apparantly considerable earlier swords. I always look forward to the input from all members who add valued observations and pertinant information.

We have I think really put together a good base point for our understanding of these swords, and the perspective on the Razha definitely adds fascinating dimension to the study as we continue looking into the possible typology and developmental aspects of them.

In reviewing "The Arts of the Muslim Knight" (Furusiyya Art Foundation, 1988), on p.79 (#43) one of these early 'short battle swords' is shown with characteristic hilt form with the fluted pommel, tubular grip, 'winged quillons' with bud type downturned quillon tips. The authors note, "...swords of this type were popular over a long period of time and thier documented associations suggest they are ultimately based on dhu'l-Faqar, the silver hilted sword of the Prophet. They represent a simplified version of the luxurious Nasrid swords of the 15th c.". Much as noted in Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia" op.cit.) it seems agreed that while it is generally held these are from Oman, thier precise origin is uncertain.

A number of these are listed in various collections:
Askeri Muzesi, Istanbul , #2382 and #7620 (Alexander, 1985);
Topkapi Sarayi Muzesi, Istanbul, #1/2765 signed Muhammed ibn Ahmad 1842;
Wallace Collection, London, #1796
Metropolitan Museum of Art, N.Y. #1987.43

According to the Furusiyya references, these are believed perhaps from North Africa and of 15th c. while one of 18th c. is said to be associated with the Banu Ahmari.

I did discover that there are indeed a number of Umayyad swords of 7th to 8th c. in Topkapi Saray, though there seems to be some reservations on some of the dating, possibly referring to inscriptions as it seems it is agreed these are early ("Medieval Arab Arms" Abdel Rahman Zaky, in Elgood, 1980, p.203). In this work, the author notes the sword Samsana (the sharp one) which was one of the swords of the Prophet. This sword was said to have been with the legendary people of Ad, in Southern Arabia, and later was passed to Umayyad Caliphs; then to Bedouin chieftains, ultimately to Abbasid Caliph, at which point record of it is lost.

Returning to the Furusiyya reference, (p.79, #43 op.cit.) this example is shown as 17th-18th c. and it is noted that the presumably much earlier 'Nasrid' examples usually have downward dragonhead or lionhead tips, but the Mamluk or North African examples quillon tips are unrecognizably stylized or vegetal.

Here it is mentioned that 'other examples have no guard, but only a cuff on the base of the blade'. Perhaps these are the transitional form seen in the souk in Riyadh shown by Michael Blaylock (2009)? That may suggest the example in the souk is a much earlier 'long' type which has now lost the winged quillons, but retains the blade cuff, and contemporary to the 'short battle swords' which are agreed to be 17th century, and quite likely at this point attributable to as early as 14th by the earliest Arab miniatures depicting them.

Though these references do not move us more conclusively toward the earlier date of 10th c. for the battle sword, it does seem to bring the two hilts closer in being contemporary earlier.

On the shashka form hilts,I have seen shashkas actually in Jordanian context, and the Circassian presence in Ottoman forces presents good reason for these entering many regions under thier control. The Caucasian blades produced often entered Arabian regions in trade and were simply hilted as noted, being used by Bedouin tribes across the Arabian Peninsula and into the many regions where these tribes are active.

The short sabre blades which often have the karabela (hawk head) hilts most definitely have associations to maritime use, which of course would suggest thier presence more likely on the Arabian coastal areas. The shashka blades tend to be longer and more used by individuals mounted, the curved blade more attuned to the preferred 'draw cut'.

I really do appreciate the time you take in responding with this detailed discourse and explaining the many important factors involved in understanding the history of Oman. The search and more discussion continues :)

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Every ethnicity that was using swords as weapons had a dance with swords. No surprise here.
Just to clarify. I have never heard of a Russian sword dance called Buza. Dance with Sabers by Khachaturyan is a choreografic invention. While there were caucasian sword dances in the Caucasus, Khachaturyan's 's example cannot serve as an authentic evidence. Ukrainian Combat Hopak is a recent invention of Ukrainian nationalists claiming that most, if not all, Western culture stems from an ancient tribe called Ukr and that Sanskrit is just a bastardized ancient Ukrainian language ( I am not joking). Hopak is an old Ukrainian dance and has nothing to do with swords or martial arts ( unless we call every male dance martial). Combat Hopak is just an amalgam of Tae Quon Do, karate and a host of other east asian martial arts performed while wearing voluminous ukrainian pants. Fake from the beginning to the end. Generally all sword dances are just examples of male strutting. Re-phrasing Eli Wallach in " The good, the bad and the ugly", If you want to cut, cut. Don't dance.
Old Omani Kattara looks to me like an ossified tradition of pre-islamic arabian swords. See old mamluk swords in Yucel's and Aydin's books.
Daghestani armourers at the end of the 19th century made their living by mass-exporting their rather poorly-made blades to Arabia ( perhaps, the connection was via tens of thousands of Circassian and Daghestanis emigrating to the Ottoman lands in the 1870's). Shamil died in Medina, his son not far from there.

Salaams,
Thankyou for the input which is very interesting. My research clearly flags up definite proof that the Omani Short Battle Sword and the Long Omani Kattara belong to Ibadi Islam at the beginning of its adoption by Oman. That was in the 8th Century AD.
The Short Omani Battle Sword is so similar as I have shown to the Abbasid Swords in the Topkapi Museum even down to the spot on the blade and the octagonal hilt cross section. Moreover that sword was in Oman at the time being used by the Abbasid Garrisons. The likely perveyor of that technology was the first Ibadi leader (political and war as opposed to religious) Jabr Ibn Zayd. However I suggest the slightly later date of 751 is also plausible as the first Immam (please see previous scripts)
Unlike other places and peoples The Omani tradition of dance, music and poetry was the method of passing down tradition through the ages and the "Funun Razha sword dance" is identical today as it was then .. as I say in 751 AD. Thats with the Long Kattara and Terrs Buckler Shield. The sword dance appertaining to fighting is pure form and sword practise in motion and I totally disagree about the "cut dont dance" in your reply because the technique for fighting with this system is unique and lethal so getting good through practice with live blades and the inspiration of drums against a live opponent is similar to any martial art form except in this case more so since they dont use wooden practice sticks ! This is as live as you want it without chopping lumps off the other bloke !... Look to the web and search Razha Oman Sword Dance and you will see video of this event.
Swords Date. I realise that this appears to be somewhat outragious, however, there it is. The others were wrong and the new date though still not absolutely precise gives us a proven birthdate in an aproximate range vastly earlier than previously reckoned.
There is still work to be done in sourcing the likely shield for the Short Omani Battle Sword and in trying to further source the origins of the hilts unless they were as I suggest invented at the time as a celebratory design for what was to be a relgiously inspired weapon ~ The Ibadi Swords. 8th Century A.D. Oman. There may be further advances in finding the exact origins of long flexi blades with spatula round tips which may well be Pre Islamic.. :shrug:

Regards,

Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Once again, outstanding response Ibrahiim! and I like very much your itemized responses to the various lines of my post, the blue letters work well.

I am unclear on what is meant by your request of my acting for the forum though, as my input is simply my own opinions and observations based on my own research. As I understand our discussion here is meant to evaluate the possibilities for discovering the possible source for what we have agreed to term the 'short battle sword' as well as the development and relationship of the 'long' kattara to these apparantly considerable earlier swords. I always look forward to the input from all members who add valued observations and pertinant information.

We have I think really put together a good base point for our understanding of these swords, and the perspective on the Razha definitely adds fascinating dimension to the study as we continue looking into the possible typology and developmental aspects of them.

In reviewing "The Arts of the Muslim Knight" (Furusiyya Art Foundation, 1988), on p.79 (#43) one of these early 'short battle swords' is shown with characteristic hilt form with the fluted pommel, tubular grip, 'winged quillons' with bud type downturned quillon tips. The authors note, "...swords of this type were popular over a long period of time and thier documented associations suggest they are ultimately based on dhu'l-Faqar, the silver hilted sword of the Prophet. They represent a simplified version of the luxurious Nasrid swords of the 15th c.". Much as noted in Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia" op.cit.) it seems agreed that while it is generally held these are from Oman, thier precise origin is uncertain.

A number of these are listed in various collections:
Askeri Muzesi, Istanbul , #2382 and #7620 (Alexander, 1985);
Topkapi Sarayi Muzesi, Istanbul, #1/2765 signed Muhammed ibn Ahmad 1842;
Wallace Collection, London, #1796
Metropolitan Museum of Art, N.Y. #1987.43

According to the Furusiyya references, these are believed perhaps from North Africa and of 15th c. while one of 18th c. is said to be associated with the Banu Ahmari.

I did discover that there are indeed a number of Umayyad swords of 7th to 8th c. in Topkapi Saray, though there seems to be some reservations on some of the dating, possibly referring to inscriptions as it seems it is agreed these are early ("Medieval Arab Arms" Abdel Rahman Zaky, in Elgood, 1980, p.203). In this work, the author notes the sword Samsana (the sharp one) which was one of the swords of the Prophet. This sword was said to have been with the legendary people of Ad, in Southern Arabia, and later was passed to Umayyad Caliphs; then to Bedouin chieftains, ultimately to Abbasid Caliph, at which point record of it is lost.

Returning to the Furusiyya reference, (p.79, #43 op.cit.) this example is shown as 17th-18th c. and it is noted that the presumably much earlier 'Nasrid' examples usually have downward dragonhead or lionhead tips, but the Mamluk or North African examples quillon tips are unrecognizably stylized or vegetal.

Here it is mentioned that 'other examples have no guard, but only a cuff on the base of the blade'. Perhaps these are the transitional form seen in the souk in Riyadh shown by Michael Blaylock (2009)? That may suggest the example in the souk is a much earlier 'long' type which has now lost the winged quillons, but retains the blade cuff, and contemporary to the 'short battle swords' which are agreed to be 17th century, and quite likely at this point attributable to as early as 14th by the earliest Arab miniatures depicting them.

Though these references do not move us more conclusively toward the earlier date of 10th c. for the battle sword, it does seem to bring the two hilts closer in being contemporary earlier.

On the shashka form hilts,I have seen shashkas actually in Jordanian context, and the Circassian presence in Ottoman forces presents good reason for these entering many regions under thier control. The Caucasian blades produced often entered Arabian regions in trade and were simply hilted as noted, being used by Bedouin tribes across the Arabian Peninsula and into the many regions where these tribes are active.

The short sabre blades which often have the karabela (hawk head) hilts most definitely have associations to maritime use, which of course would suggest thier presence more likely on the Arabian coastal areas. The shashka blades tend to be longer and more used by individuals mounted, the curved blade more attuned to the preferred 'draw cut'.

I really do appreciate the time you take in responding with this detailed discourse and explaining the many important factors involved in understanding the history of Oman. The search and more discussion continues :)

All the very best,
Jim

Salaams,



Salaams Jim, I have again opted for the answers in blue after your excellent comments :see below.

QUOTE=Jim McDougall]Once again, outstanding response Ibrahiim! and I like very much your itemized responses to the various lines of my post, the blue letters work well
.
Thank you your support is excellent.

I am unclear on what is meant by your request of my acting for the forum though, as my input is simply my own opinions and observations based on my own research. As I understand our discussion here is meant to evaluate the possibilities for discovering the possible source for what we have agreed to term the 'short battle sword' as well as the development and relationship of the 'long' kattara to these apparantly considerable earlier swords. I always look forward to the input from all members who add valued observations and pertinant information.

I imagine the forum as a wealth of knowledge from which authors of ethnological weapon expertise draw a lot upon for the information since it is live, current and very informative especially from experts such as yourself…I often find when reearching on the web that I get referred back to the forum site for references !

We have I think really put together a good base point for our understanding of these swords, and the perspective on the Razha definitely adds fascinating dimension to the study as we continue looking into the possible typology and developmental aspects of them.

Yes that has been interesting and there is another ancient dance form eminating from Salalah (Dhofar, Southern Oman) which uses the Khanjar in a performance called Bar-aa. That may be another story.

In reviewing "The Arts of the Muslim Knight" (Furusiyya Art Foundation, 1988), on p.79 (#43) one of these early 'short battle swords' is shown with characteristic hilt form with the fluted pommel, tubular grip, 'winged quillons' with bud type downturned quillon tips. The authors note, "...swords of this type were popular over a long period of time and thier documented associations suggest they are ultimately based on dhu'l-Faqar, the silver hilted sword of the Prophet. They represent a simplified version of the luxurious Nasrid swords of the 15th c.". Much as noted in Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia" op.cit.) it seems agreed that while it is generally held these are from Oman, thier precise origin is uncertain

There is possibly some mythology surrounding the so called swords of the Prophet(PBOH) although they are incredible weapons and may have influenced swords, however, the time frame is a little cramped and I cannot see why it should cloud the issue. I think people are only too ready to place the swords into categories such as Sword of the Prophet(PBOH) and then the pitfall mistake of Spanish design, which is a massive diversion in my view.
Ummayid and Abbasid swords were similar as were Turkish ( In fact the royal palace guards working for the Abbasids in Iraq were Turks)
Making it all slide into a believable time frame often rules out certain formulas and we can only go on mathematical absolute proof rather like a good archeologist or forensic detective. The Ummayid time frame doesn’t fit… The Abbasid one does.

To me Nasrid swords are so far wide of the mark as to be non starters though they may have origins linked to dhul Faqar as may the Omani swords but of a separate branch (possibly). .

A number of these are listed in various collections:
Askeri Muzesi, Istanbul , #2382 and #7620 (Alexander, 1985);
Topkapi Sarayi Muzesi, Istanbul, #1/2765 signed Muhammed ibn Ahmad 1842;
Wallace Collection, London, #1796
Metropolitan Museum of Art, N.Y. #1987.43


According to the Furusiyya references, these are believed perhaps from North Africa and of 15th c. while one of 18th c. is said to be associated with the Banu Ahmari.

I think that is al amari which would be an Omani reference but again very late: 18th Century? Ten centuries out. How can they be in the Funun if they are 18th Century?

Yes that is true however that is true for those references which I believe are correct but not complete. They omit the full facts about the Omani weapons and their origins linking the Ibadi Islamists around AD 751.

I did discover that there are indeed a number of Umayyad swords of 7th to 8th c. in Topkapi Saray, though there seems to be some reservations on some of the dating, possibly referring to inscriptions as it seems it is agreed these are early ("Medieval Arab Arms" Abdel Rahman Zaky, in Elgood, 1980, p.203). In this work, the author notes the sword Samsana (the sharp one) which was one of the swords of the Prophet. This sword was said to have been with the legendary people of Ad, in Southern Arabia, and later was passed to Umayyad Caliphs; then to Bedouin chieftains, ultimately to Abbasid Caliph, at which point record of it is lost.

It could be possible that Ummayid swords influenced the Abbasid Sword design (since Ummayid was the dynasty before) and even some influence to Omanis Swords at the time, however, the Ummayid time frame doesn’t fit. The Abbasid time frame does and the fact that they were garrisoned in Oman and operating against the Omani Ibadis (the first Omani Immam died at their hands in battle in the late 8thC)The fighting purely based on style of Islamic religion. The Omani Swords by then were Iconic Ibadi weapons.

Returning to the Furusiyya reference, (p.79, #43 op.cit.) this example is shown as 17th-18th c. and it is noted that the presumably much earlier 'Nasrid' examples usually have downward dragonhead or lionhead tips, but the Mamluk or North African examples quillon tips are unrecognizably stylized or vegetal

Nasrid is also miles too late and was one of the first casualties in my research. I call the Nasrid sword "Geographically Innert and Time Frame impossible".

The Nasrid dynasty or Banū Naṣr (Arabic: بنو نصر‎) was the last Moorish and Muslim dynasty in Spain. The Nasrid dynasty rose to power after the defeat of the Almohad dynasty in 1212 at the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa. Twenty-three different emirs ruled Granada from the founding of the dynasty in 1232 by Muhammed I ibn Nasr until January 2, 1492, when Muhammad XII surrendered to the Christian Spanish kingdoms of Aragon and Castile. Today, the most visible evidence of the Nasrids is the Alhambra palace complex built under their rule. (500 to 700 years too late).

Here it is mentioned that 'other examples have no guard, but only a cuff on the base of the blade'. Perhaps these are the transitional form seen in the souk in Riyadh shown by Michael Blaylock (2009)? That may suggest the example in the souk is a much earlier 'long' type which has now lost the winged quillons, but retains the blade cuff, and contemporary to the 'short battle swords' which are agreed to be 17th century, and quite likely at this point attributable to as early as 14th by the earliest Arab miniatures depicting them

.

That is very interesting indeed. The Riyadh? Yemen Museum variants(Michael Blalocks) could also be described as such … The quillons are there but folded forward as part of the collar arrangement. It may be identical and the description of no guard is true though they coild easily have missed the collar and quillon incorporation as " no guard" in their description…That follows my argument that these are the original form of Omani Long Kattara. However I am totally at loggerheads with the dates 14th and 17th Century~ They are 8th Century.


Though these references do not move us more conclusively toward the earlier date of 10th c. for the battle sword, it does seem to bring the two hilts closer in being contemporary earlier
.
10th Century is too late. By then Oman was about to disintegrate into 2 warring factions. Ibadi Islam had been in place for over 2 centuries. The Razha had been drumming from 751 AD or slightly earlier if my supposition about the leader Jabr Ibn Zayd is allowed and Ibadi seat of control Nizwa was about to exert its rule of the Interior… The 10th Century doen't fit.

On the shashka form hilts,I have seen shashkas actually in Jordanian context, and the Circassian presence in Ottoman forces presents good reason for these entering many regions under thier control. The Caucasian blades produced often entered Arabian regions in trade and were simply hilted as noted, being used by Bedouin tribes across the Arabian Peninsula and into the many regions where these tribes are active

Agreed on shaska influence on other Omani weapons . However regarding the Omani Short and Katara Long ~The Ottoman empire is too late. Anyway they hardly ruled Oman though they thought they did on maps. Piri Reis did attack Muscat and expelled for a short period the Portuguese but 16th Century?; that is way too late.

I think there are a lot of weapons that could have entered Oman but didn’t. For example there are hundreds of Indian and Persian variant swords~ none came into use by Oman. Why? Mainly because Indianweapons were Hindu and even in the case of Muslim (Persia and later parts of India) weapons they weren’t the right style of Islam to be accepted.. However, the primary reason is that Oman adopted Islam before the Persians so they already had the Ibadi variant and they were happy to retain that. Once they had integrated these relgious inspired weapons into their tradition they were unmoveable.. They are still there today.

The short sabre blades which often have the karabela (hawk head) hilts most definitely have associations to maritime use, which of course would suggest thier presence more likely on the Arabian coastal areas. The shashka blades tend to be longer and more used by individuals mounted, the curved blade more attuned to the preferred 'draw cut'.

Agreed on shaska influence on other weapons later in Oman especially maritime via Yemen .

However as a note it doesn’t mean that the Kattara was not used on the coast… there were wide windows of influence when Oman was "one country" and both Ibadi weapons would have been used throughout. It seems clear to me that it was this coastal effect that eventually brought a change to the Long Kattara hilt.


When the two factions of coastal and interior war flared up as it did on several occasions the seat of Ibadi Islam was in Nizwa and it is there that the powerful traditions; "The Funun" etc eminate. No matter what the state of affairs between coastal / interior factions in Oman this tradition has been retained there in the interior through thick and thin... as a permanent tradition.

This is an Interior Omani weapons system timelocked frozen and stored in the national memory banks and wheeled out at every wedding and twice yearly at each Eid celebration..ad infinitum since about 751 A.D. :shrug:

I really do appreciate the time you take in responding with this detailed discourse and explaining the many important factors involved in understanding the history of Oman. The search and more discussion continues :)

All the very best,
Jim[/QUOTE

Thank You very much.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi..

[ariel]

If we are talking about sword dances, this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRpoFZgzS1A&feature=related


might be intriguing

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

If we are talking about sword dances, this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRpoFZgzS1A&feature=related


might be intriguing

Salaams,
That is intriguing . I note how well balanced the exponent is by having a sword in each hand which is similar to the balance achieved with Kattara and Terrs though the two dances are otherwise totally unrelated.

Parallel and unrelated tribal dances and even artefacts occur in unlinked tribal groups across the globe, for example, Australian Aborigine, Eskimo, African, Amazon Indian, North American Indian, South Arabian groups etc but only as accidental unrelated developments. Escrima Philipine martial arts have possibly similar style to the two sword slashing action of the video you posted, but again; not linked.

What I do think is worth looking at is Martial Arts use of The Kata(Japanese) or traditional sequence moves done as sets or drills. The Kata are sacred to each Martial System. The sets are often quite different for each style. They encompass the essence of that style and never change after being introduced at the birth of that Martial Art. Its the same in Korean and Chinese systems. All different, all sacred and all passed down the ages.

I draw the analogy between that and the Omani Funun which was the traditional genre drawn up at the birth of the Ibadi system ~ in this case a religion ~ that contained at its core the vital "pass down" ingredients from the start of the religious style; The Razha (sword procession and sword dances) carried out as pageants, rituals and as a martial system in honour of Ibadism in the date brackets of aproximately 700 to 800 A.D. Using the Omani Long Kattara and the Terrs.

Passed down as embedded folklore and religious conformity twice annually at each Eid, at almost every wedding, at meetings of VIPS, at cultural meetings and exchanges in schools , at cultural events, National Days and other important dates in the calendar; religious, political and social for about the last 1300 years and still going strong today.

Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Jim McDougall.


Salaams,
I have found one sword in Muscat with the hilt we are all talking about. I now own that one. I believe this hilt to be from the original Long Omani Kattara and essentially the same hilt to the Omani Short Battla Sword, though stretched.
Mounted on this hilt is the Ethiopian blade probably Luckhouse and Gunther (German) Trade Blade. 19thC.

Update;[/B]

Our hypothesis is that the two swords( The Omani Short and Long) have a similar birth date into Oman as battle swords in commemoration of the Islamic sect accepted there after 630 (630 A.D. was the date of acceptance of Islam with a slightly later date for the adoption of the Ibadi style in the region in 751 chosen by this author as an honorary date in respect of the first Immam appointed on that date.) It is possible that it transpired earlier though the date 751.A.D. is chosen to illustrate the time zone rather than a specific and precise date. Narrowing it down to the mid 8th Century is however far more accurate but takes into consideration due cause giving it good reason to exist at that time as 1. Copied from the Abbasid 2. An honorary design with an Islamic Hilt to herald in the new unique Ibadi sect of Islam to Oman.

Tradition.(Music, Dance, Poetry)

It is argued that the FUNUN holds the key as the celebratory and folklore method of honouring the two Islamic calendar Eid celebrations annually and was performed at wedding feasts and civic and political meetings down the ages. The Funun genre of music, dance and poetry is sacresanct and integral to Ibadi Islam and within this early volume is the Razha (Sword Dance using the Long Kattara and Buckler "Terrs" Shield)

If it can be viewed another way ? ~ In Oman music, dance, and poetry are rather like martial arts drills sequences or :"Kata" which were the blueprint and essential identity of that skill. They never change. In Oman it was the means by which folklore and the reflection of daily lives was passed down from generation to generation. Moreover the heart and soul of this folklore system was called The Funun containing a key element The Razha or Sword Dances. One in particular is a celebration of Long Omani Kattara and Terrs "mimic combat". Another is key to the sword honoring Ibadi religion by celebratory parading with leaps and throwing and showing off with the weapon to the exultation of the guests and the accompanying orchestra of drums.

The seat of the Ibadi was always Nizwa as the capital of the Dhakiliyya or interior. It is from there that the founding leader of the Omanis was born, went to Iraq and returned to lead the nation against the Abbasid. From Nizwa the traditions have been handed down through the folklore system. It is still being done to this day in the time honoured way.

Key Personalities.

Amir Ibn Al As in 630 presented a letter requesting adherence to Islam by the Omanis. Oman agreed. This important event took place at Nizwa. A short while later Oman adopted Ibadi Islam as its chosen sect. Note that Nizwa was to be the chosen seat of all the early Immams as well as the capital of the interior in peace and later in war with the Oman Coast.

The Abbasid Dynasty. The Abbasids from Iraq garrisoned in Oman and punished Omanis during the 8th and 9th Centuries for adopting Ibadi Islam as heretical. The sword used by the Abbasid Garrisons is in the Topkapi Museum Istanbul. (see my earlier text on the 11 similarities in sword design; Abbasid versus Omani Short Battle Sword)

Jabr Ibn Zayd (Originally from near Nizwa in the Oman Interior)was exiled from Iraq and returned to lead Oman against the Abbasids. He died in 711 therefor it is quite plausible that having seen the technology in Iraq he transferred the Abbasid sword for use by Omanis in the time honoured way of simply redesigning the hilts for both a short and long Kattara (The Long Omani Kattara and the Short Omani Battle Sword) and incorporated a hilt which had Islamic overtones and could prove Iconic for the Ibadi religion. The Long Omani Kattara Sword and Terrs Shield was then locked forever into Omani Folklore and tradition thus it is in the body of work called the Funun as the "Razha" sword dance.. at the inception of Ibadhi Islam.

Julanda bin Massoud; in 751 AD, It is plausible that he, as the first Immam completed the cycle of events as first Immam of the new Ibadi sect in Oman and took the fight to the Abbasid invaders. He was killed in battle only a year or so after that and it was not until 811 AD that a period of relative stability occured with another early Immam Warth bin Kaab.

Nizwa; The seat of the Ibadi was always Nizwa as the capital of the Dhakiliyya or interior. It is from there that the founding leader of the Omanis was born, went to Iraq and returned to lead the nation against the Abbasid. From Nizwa the traditions have been handed down through the folklore system. It is still being done to this day in the time honoured way.

The seat of the Ibadi sect remained in Nizwa and later when Oman was at war with itself, key to sword distribution around neighboring countries. Trade was vital to a segment of the country generally cut off from the Indian Ocean and Nizwa Capital of this "country within a country" turned to the camel train as its lifeline. It is likely that what is now Saudi Arabia but was then a segmented multi tribal feifdome hosted much of this trade though access north was also likely to Gulf nations and south to Yemen and Africa. Once the Long Kattara was exported it would have frozen, thus, what we see pictured here is, I believe, the original Omani Long Kattara "Hilt" rejigged in the last 150 years or so with a German trade blade originally destined for Ethiopia and likely used there and later hilt switched etc arriving in the last 20 years into Muscat. Virtually full circle.

Essentially and in conclusion therefore; these are [B]8th Century A.D. original, Omani Battle Swords; A pair of weapons with hilts redesigned to herald in the new Islamic Ibadi sect and in the case of The Long Kattara and Terrs entering Omans Folklore, whilst the Short Omani Battle Sword was equally Iconic but used in close quarter battle like the Roman Gladius though probably with a bigger shield as yet not pinpointed. Through being used as a favourite in the procession and dance of Omani folklore the long probably superceded the short through the centuries.

The Long Kattara hilt evolved into a conical flat arrangement over the new "blade tang and pommel" construction whereas the old exported version froze in design but equally evolved in different directions being matched with long african/european trade blades viewable in the souk in Riyadh and Muscat(now with me) plus in a military museum in Yemen.

As a side related issue both the Omani Long Kattara and the Omani Short Battle Sword appear in drawings and photographs up to and beyond the 1890s worn by various Omani dignatories in and around Zanzibar and Oman (as well as the long curved Sayf on a Kattara hilt and Persian Shamshir and other Zanzibari and Omani weapons ie The Khanjar in the role of Iconic badge of Office in the region.) Ingram the English Visier at the Zanzibar court was, however, correct when he described the Razha as an Omani Dance and it is from that single line in his early 20th Century diary that this work transpires; pushing back the envelope to the 8th Century.

Without motive it was not logical to leave these weapons floundering between the 10th and in some cases the 17th or 18th century. Neither was it correct to assume African, Zanzibari, Portuguese, Indian or other birthright without due diligence. I believe we have corrected those mistakes. :shrug:

Regards,

Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

Below I present the swords photographed together with on the left two Short Omani Battle Swords then the old long original Kattara Hilt with a trade blade, then the Kattara with its more well known hilt;

[Jim McDougall]

This is an absolutely outstanding synopsis of the hypothesis established to date, and it is wonderful to see how analyzing the various historical events extending to the earliest times of Islam in these regions form a key part of understanding the development of these swords.
Also an important facet of this analysis is the importance of the connection between the Razha (sword dance) and the martial arts application of these 'long kattara' in the preservation of the traditions of these forms of the sword.

It really is quite amazing that such an approach has not been pursued sooner. though clearly the questions have been there (as seen by the 2006 posts by al-Anizi. It has long been clear that the connections between Oman and trade centers in East Africa were reflected in the appearance of these long kattara in those regions. The advent of German trade blades entered into the sphere from 17th into 19th centuries in notable degree, which of course has long suggested that the Omani 'long' kattara was a relatively recent phenomenon. One of the greatest problems in establishing developmental lineage of various ethnographic sword forms has been the lack of chronologically provenanced examples. This is a case where a plausible theory is supported by the relative seclusion of these inner regions of Oman versus the more dynamic trade connections of Muscat, and how these earlier sword forms might have weathered these influences remaining in place for over a millenium.

As mentioned earlier, the existence of 'sword dance' is hardly unusual as a concept ethnographically, and the dramatic representation of combat and events seems a quite understandable manner of maintaining tradition in mankind in general. Such practices were even in degree practiced by early man and dancing as a development of shamanic ceremony was probably part of the formation of early religion and temporal perception of his surroundings.
There are however certain peculiarities it seems in these representations in vastly separated cultural spheres which have no apparant direct contact with each other. It does seem that the roots of the Razha must be shared with a number of other versions of this particular dance style, but though I believe the details are similar, for example with the crouched position in opening to the exaggerated leaps and wide blade sweeps to the Khevsur 'duels' in the Caucusus, there are a number of aspects that seem dissimilar. If I understand correctly, one of the elements key in the Omani performance is the undulating of the long blade to produce sound, which requires a longer well forged blade of strength and thinness.

Extremely well written and nicely presented Ibrahiim! Thank you so much for sharing this here, and again, it is fantastic to see this kind of research followed in the study of weapons. It is inspiring to see this, and gives us hope that equal attention will be afforded the many other weapons whose developments have remained clouded in mystery for so long.

With all very best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This is an absolutely outstanding synopsis of the hypothesis established to date, and it is wonderful to see how analyzing the various historical events extending to the earliest times of Islam in these regions form a key part of understanding the development of these swords.
Also an important facet of this analysis is the importance of the connection between the Razha (sword dance) and the martial arts application of these 'long kattara' in the preservation of the traditions of these forms of the sword.

It really is quite amazing that such an approach has not been pursued sooner. though clearly the questions have been there (as seen by the 2006 posts by al-Anizi. It has long been clear that the connections between Oman and trade centers in East Africa were reflected in the appearance of these long kattara in those regions. The advent of German trade blades entered into the sphere from 17th into 19th centuries in notable degree, which of course has long suggested that the Omani 'long' kattara was a relatively recent phenomenon. One of the greatest problems in establishing developmental lineage of various ethnographic sword forms has been the lack of chronologically provenanced examples. This is a case where a plausible theory is supported by the relative seclusion of these inner regions of Oman versus the more dynamic trade connections of Muscat, and how these earlier sword forms might have weathered these influences remaining in place for over a millenium.

As mentioned earlier, the existence of 'sword dance' is hardly unusual as a concept ethnographically, and the dramatic representation of combat and events seems a quite understandable manner of maintaining tradition in mankind in general. Such practices were even in degree practiced by early man and dancing as a development of shamanic ceremony was probably part of the formation of early religion and temporal perception of his surroundings.
There are however certain peculiarities it seems in these representations in vastly separated cultural spheres which have no apparant direct contact with each other. It does seem that the roots of the Razha must be shared with a number of other versions of this particular dance style, but though I believe the details are similar, for example with the crouched position in opening to the exaggerated leaps and wide blade sweeps to the Khevsur 'duels' in the Caucusus, there are a number of aspects that seem dissimilar. If I understand correctly, one of the elements key in the Omani performance is the undulating of the long blade to produce sound, which requires a longer well forged blade of strength and thinness.

Extremely well written and nicely presented Ibrahiim! Thank you so much for sharing this here, and again, it is fantastic to see this kind of research followed in the study of weapons. It is inspiring to see this, and gives us hope that equal attention will be afforded the many other weapons whose developments have remained clouded in mystery for so long.

With all very best regards,
Jim

Salaams Jim,
Thank you for this and all your inspiring replies. Your masterful approach has helped so much in finally examining this clouded issue which has puzzled experts for too long. Thanks to you and this forum we have at last got much closer to understanding these Omani Swords.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This is an absolutely outstanding synopsis of the hypothesis established to date, and it is wonderful to see how analyzing the various historical events extending to the earliest times of Islam in these regions form a key part of understanding the development of these swords.
Also an important facet of this analysis is the importance of the connection between the Razha (sword dance) and the martial arts application of these 'long kattara' in the preservation of the traditions of these forms of the sword.

It really is quite amazing that such an approach has not been pursued sooner. though clearly the questions have been there (as seen by the 2006 posts by al-Anizi. It has long been clear that the connections between Oman and trade centers in East Africa were reflected in the appearance of these long kattara in those regions. The advent of German trade blades entered into the sphere from 17th into 19th centuries in notable degree, which of course has long suggested that the Omani 'long' kattara was a relatively recent phenomenon. One of the greatest problems in establishing developmental lineage of various ethnographic sword forms has been the lack of chronologically provenanced examples. This is a case where a plausible theory is supported by the relative seclusion of these inner regions of Oman versus the more dynamic trade connections of Muscat, and how these earlier sword forms might have weathered these influences remaining in place for over a millenium.

As mentioned earlier, the existence of 'sword dance' is hardly unusual as a concept ethnographically, and the dramatic representation of combat and events seems a quite understandable manner of maintaining tradition in mankind in general. Such practices were even in degree practiced by early man and dancing as a development of shamanic ceremony was probably part of the formation of early religion and temporal perception of his surroundings.
There are however certain peculiarities it seems in these representations in vastly separated cultural spheres which have no apparant direct contact with each other. It does seem that the roots of the Razha must be shared with a number of other versions of this particular dance style, but though I believe the details are similar, for example with the crouched position in opening to the exaggerated leaps and wide blade sweeps to the Khevsur 'duels' in the Caucusus, there are a number of aspects that seem dissimilar. If I understand correctly, one of the elements key in the Omani performance is the undulating of the long blade to produce sound, which requires a longer well forged blade of strength and thinness.

Extremely well written and nicely presented Ibrahiim! Thank you so much for sharing this here, and again, it is fantastic to see this kind of research followed in the study of weapons. It is inspiring to see this, and gives us hope that equal attention will be afforded the many other weapons whose developments have remained clouded in mystery for so long.

With all very best regards,
Jim

Salaams Jim,
I was just sweeping back through all the posts related to this subject in an attempt at damage assessment as there were some possible swords linked which I thought could have been wrongly attributed.

Michael Blalaock on 28 feb 2010 on Yemeni Sword illustrates an excellent picture which is clearly similar to the sword by;

Steve on 28 march 2011 Arabian Swords #14.( Wallace Collection)

Both these swords hilts are clearly derived from the OLD Omani Long Kattara in this discussion. The swords are Hybrids, perhaps the brainchild of an arabian silversmith bringing the old Omani exported kattara up to Iconic, Badge of Office status. One sword is in the Wallace collection in the UK. Currently we have one sword being hybridised in the same way by our master silversmith.
I mention sword, however, in this context all we have is a fragmented hilt and a relatively modern 19th Century trade blade with a VR British Raj Crown stamp ... It is an interesting point since much of the conversation is about, for example, Omani swords yet I have never seen an "original" Kattara long blade (is it possible that all Omani Long Kattara blades were replaced with new blades in the 17th, 18th and 19th Centuries and thus a new style of hilt ?) whereas on the short sword they look distinctly original. Could that be the link in all these swords being exported from interior Oman? Technically you dont convert the old sword .. you simply replace it with a new one... new blade and new hilt.
If that is the case then there will be some original blades on original hilts out there having been exported to Yemen and what is now Saudi Arabia.

Meanwhile The Wallace Collection needs an update !

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
In looking at these four hilts, it is difficult to determine at this point whether these are regional variations, or whether there is a transitional development shown at this point. I am under the impression that the examples we are now calling the 'short battle swords' with the downturned 'winged' type guard are most likely to have existed from quite early times in the Dhakiliyya, where they are believed to have evolved from early Abbasid swords and with that plausibly existed as a type from as early as the 8th century.

With the conservativism and relative isolation of the Ibadi Sect in these interior regions these earlier type hilts in the kattara continued traditionally.These then became concurrent with a longer bladed type kattara which reflects certain elements of the hilt form of this older form with the cylindrical grip and minaret type pommel, and was guardless. A similar cuff covers the root of the blade of both types of kattara.

It remains unclear whether these long bladed hybrid type kattaras, which are essentially the same as the the square pommeled form which we consider associated with the dynamic trade regions of the coast in Muscat and other points of the Sultanate including Zanzibar, were in use in the interior regions by the Ibadi contemporararily with the traditional battle swords or not.

Robert Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia", 1994, p.16) cites the 1821 narrative of James Fraser, who visited the Omani garrison at Ormuz and claimed the broadswords used by them resembled the Scottish broadsword blade, and that some of these were made in Yemen. I believe that he meant that they 'came' from Yemen, where they were probably mounted. The example posted by Michael Blalock in 2010 (and resembling the Wallace example) has a scabbard similar to the silver banded mounts known to have been from Yemen (Elgood p.15, noting C. Buttin's attribution) and that many of these had 17th century blades. These were likely of course German, and of the type of broadsword blades seen on Scottish swords as noted (Fraser), as most Scottish blades were German.

It would seem that many of these broadsword blades were German, and of the 17th and 18th centuries, and they were likely remounted numerous times during thier working lives as are most of the ethnographic swords. It would seem that the newer style hilts would be used, and perhaps these 'hybrids' are an amalgam of old form but with revised guard, or indeed transitional. The curved blades, though occasionally appearing in Omani kattara hilts, are it seems mostly 19th century.

It will be difficult to prove the 8th century origin on the hilt style of these early kattara now believed to be primarily of the interior regions until there is more proof. However, these do appear to be much earlier than the 17th-18th century date presumed by the blades found in many of them. Elgood (p.18, footnote #36) notes that one of these earlier hilts of bronze was sold at Sothebys (Islamic sale, 24 April, 1991, lot #1113) which was described as 12th-14th century. Though that attribution is not strongly supported, it is not necessarily disputed either.

As always, looking forward to continuing research and discussion. Do we have illustrations of the Abbasid swords in Istanbul?

All the best,
Jim

[Michael Blalock]

Here was an odd looking one. It looks like someone cut is short and ran over it with a wire brush. It's a shame; it was interesting with the mysterious three holes.

http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/91917.aspx

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here was an odd looking one. It looks like someone cut is short and ran over it with a wire brush. It's a shame; it was interesting with the mysterious three holes.

http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/91917.aspx


Salaams... Nice but what a pity! Its half a very rare sword. ( 8thC. AD.)

Ive seen dots on these before(one and three mostly in about the same place as yours though occassionally centre blade) and attribute this to the fact that the sword from which it was copied was the Abbasid which itself had a dot on the blade. Now at the Topkapi this Abbasid can be compared to your Omani Short Battle Sword in 11 categories... The hilt being modified but equally based on two sections; the three rivet holes with the top one thought to be for a wristband. Often the handgrip is tubular or octagonal reflecting perhaps the minarette shape or more exactly the shape of the Abbasid octagonal hilt. Great picture ! Regards Ibrahiim. I have also reffered to your Wallace Museum style sword which I believe is the old Omani Long Kattara in its exported mode then revamped as a hybrid in about the 18 th C... and I also thank you for igniting the idea about these weapons with your picture from the Yemen Military Museum and Riyadh Souk...When you sent those pictures I had just been in Muscat puzzling over such a sword and wondering whether I should take it...I went back last week and took two and an old Omani Battle Sword now being upgraded to Badge of Office standard... These are, I believe, original style Omani Long Kattara for which I am about to defend the theory of ... through this very interesting exchange with Jim. :shrug:

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi ~

ps I will keep an eye open for a spare 8th century blade !

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
In looking at these four hilts, it is difficult to determine at this point whether these are regional variations, or whether there is a transitional development shown at this point. I am under the impression that the examples we are now calling the 'short battle swords' with the downturned 'winged' type guard are most likely to have existed from quite early times in the Dhakiliyya, where they are believed to have evolved from early Abbasid swords and with that plausibly existed as a type from as early as the 8th century.

With the conservativism and relative isolation of the Ibadi Sect in these interior regions these earlier type hilts in the kattara continued traditionally.These then became concurrent with a longer bladed type kattara which reflects certain elements of the hilt form of this older form with the cylindrical grip and minaret type pommel, and was guardless. A similar cuff covers the root of the blade of both types of kattara.

It remains unclear whether these long bladed hybrid type kattaras, which are essentially the same as the the square pommeled form which we consider associated with the dynamic trade regions of the coast in Muscat and other points of the Sultanate including Zanzibar, were in use in the interior regions by the Ibadi contemporararily with the traditional battle swords or not.

Robert Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia", 1994, p.16) cites the 1821 narrative of James Fraser, who visited the Omani garrison at Ormuz and claimed the broadswords used by them resembled the Scottish broadsword blade, and that some of these were made in Yemen. I believe that he meant that they 'came' from Yemen, where they were probably mounted. The example posted by Michael Blalock in 2010 (and resembling the Wallace example) has a scabbard similar to the silver banded mounts known to have been from Yemen (Elgood p.15, noting C. Buttin's attribution) and that many of these had 17th century blades. These were likely of course German, and of the type of broadsword blades seen on Scottish swords as noted (Fraser), as most Scottish blades were German.

It would seem that many of these broadsword blades were German, and of the 17th and 18th centuries, and they were likely remounted numerous times during thier working lives as are most of the ethnographic swords. It would seem that the newer style hilts would be used, and perhaps these 'hybrids' are an amalgam of old form but with revised guard, or indeed transitional. The curved blades, though occasionally appearing in Omani kattara hilts, are it seems mostly 19th century.

It will be difficult to prove the 8th century origin on the hilt style of these early kattara now believed to be primarily of the interior regions until there is more proof. However, these do appear to be much earlier than the 17th-18th century date presumed by the blades found in many of them. Elgood (p.18, footnote #36) notes that one of these earlier hilts of bronze was sold at Sothebys (Islamic sale, 24 April, 1991, lot #1113) which was described as 12th-14th century. Though that attribution is not strongly supported, it is not necessarily disputed either.

As always, looking forward to continuing research and discussion. Do we have illustrations of the Abbasid swords in Istanbul?

All the best,
Jim
Salaams Jim~ This is a very thought provoking reply ! May I reconstruct the reply I concocted last evening(which disappeared when I pressed send!!) into a far simpler form of essentially 4 statements of fact ~ One for each sword so that people dont get confused ? I will also add a comprehensive brief as a footnote defending the Funun and to some extent the apparent religious rhetoric built around my arguement. I will also place the references at the end. I expect that composition will take an hour or two...

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for posting this example Michael, and I join Ibrahiim in thanking you for the great photos of the swords in Yemen and Riyadh which have been integral to our discussions here. This example does seem to have had the blade cut down and reprofiled tip which seem uncharacteristically pointed.

The triple dots inlaid near the forte on this are a feature seen regularly, not necessarily commonly, on many Hadhramauti and Yemeni edged weapons. I have seen these in paired configuration on either side of center ridge on Hahramaut janbiyya, and on the blades on a number of swords. It would seem this is an apotropaic device, however similar applications of these triple dots are seen on blades in India and elsewhere in various blade locations, and it is unclear what the exact purpose or meaning might be in different cultural spheres.

Ibrahiim, is it possible we might get an illustration of the Abbasid sword in Topkapi that we might use as a visual benchmark for our discussion? Also you mention that the Abbasid sword has a single dot in the blade. Is it gold metal filled or iron, and what blade location?

It does seem that yellow metal plugs were used in similar manner in antiquity as noted from an al Kindi reference in "The Sword in Anglo Saxon England" (H.R.Ellis-Davidson , 1962. p.115) which was translated in 1936 by A.Zeki Velidi:
"...upon completion of blade treatment, some blades were marked in the upper part with moons or crosses of bronze or gold, and sometimes a nail of bronze or gold is hammered into a hole in the blade".

While this suggests that the substance of the metal plug or nail serves in some sense as an apotropaic or element of power, it is unclear what exact meaning was, and why this may have evolved into the triple dot configuration.

In a discussion some years ago as we examined metal filled holes in blades, Lee Jones offered a most plausible suggestion for some of the configurations located where earlier blade fixtures may have been secured, and that perhaps these were left clearly apparant to suggest the vintage and integrity of a heirloom blade. It must be remembered that blades were remounted often many times in thier working lives, and that these old blades were highly revered. Thus rather than being perceived as 'old blades' these may have been considered imbued with the power of the owner's ancestors. Trophy blades were of course very much likely viewed in the same manner.

Regarding the possible apotropaic application once again, it is interesting to note that in many cases among the swords of the Tuareg, the blade is pierced just above the point and the hole filled by a copper plug ("European Blades in Tuareg Swords and Daggers" Lloyd Cabot Briggs, JAAS, Vol.V, #2, 1965, p.80). This may have been an influence from the European sword blades entering the Sahara, or equally from Arab traders from the east, or perhaps an element of the Tuaregs own folk religion and superstitions toward iron and evil etc. Whatever the case, the use of metal filled holes in seemingly strategic configurations is these various examples may offer clues in our further examinations of these swords.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim~ Yours is a very thought provoking reply ! I still need to address the question of the Hormus Omanis referring to Yemen in my next post if I may and I see some other interesting notes by you on Michael Blalocks half sword which I would like to add notes.... and reitterate my theory on dots on blades being related to the Abbasid which are shown on the website ...Topkapi Museum at the very end of my letter.

May I reconstruct my reply that I concocted last evening(which disappeared when I pressed send!!) into a far simpler form of essentially 4 statements of fact ~ One for each sword so that people dont get confused. I will colour them in red if I may?. I will also add a comprehensive brief as a footnote defending the Funun and to some extent perhaps the apparent religious "facts" and understandably the fable inherent in most peoples idea of "folklore" built around my argument. I will also place the references at the end.



For clarity and simplicity I rearrange my theory into 4 paragraph statements of considered fact based on my evidence so far upon the provenance of essentially 2 original sword systems and 2 developmental branches viz;

1. The Omani Short Battle Sword and
2. The Old Omani Long Kattara and Terrs. and the spin off of two other swords namely;
3. The modern Omani Long Kattara and
4. The Wallace Collection Sword.

1. The Omani Short Battle Sword;
(Turned down Quillons, Islamic shaped pommel, octagonal hilt etc)

"The Omani Short Battle Sword came into being between late 7thC and not later than 751 AD having been copied from the Abbasid sword then in use against Omanis in Oman by the Abbasid Garrison from Iraq"

2. The Omani Long Kattara and Terrs;
(Long, flexible, spatula round tipped sword with buckler shield. Hilt as per the above No 1. except "stretched" and with quillons worked forward into the cuff. The Old Omani Long Kattara appears to be a traditional blade to which the same honorific hilt as at 1. above is fitted in a noticeably stretched style) .

''This Old Omani Long Kattara was introduced at the beginning of Ibadi Islam not later than 751AD i.e. at the same time as the Short Omani Battle Sword''


3. The Modern Omani Long Kattara;
(Long flexible usually European replacement blade with pommel tang and blade as one piece on a conical flat hilt).


"This is the updated 17th C to 19th C rehilted on a new style blade, therefore, A totally restyled modern version of the old sword at 2.
The Shield, (Terrs) however, never changed".


4 . The Wallace Collection Sword;
(Iconic badge of Office VIP Dress Sword on long carry scabbard with magnificent furniture and silver Hilt with a European Blade etc. No apparent Shield).

"This is the restyled, exported, frozen old Omani Long Kattara awakened and brought up to Iconic, Badge of Office status for a dignitary or VIP. Likely provenance Yemen between the 17th and 19th Century A.D".


Notes. In supporting my general theory I rely heavily upon doctrine not usually researched i.e. The traditional music, dance and poetry of Oman and secondly the normally seldom used aspect of religion; in this case Ibadi Islam.

There are distinct and vital reasons why this approach must please be viewed with a different perspective: In the West reliance upon folklore as fact or upon religion which is normally alegorical is seldom if ever used. In Oman however these are solid references because the folklore I have researched is sacrosanct and totally not based upon fable like for example in the West say the story occasionally re-enacted on pantomime "George and the Dragon". In Oman Folklore has been enacted strictly from the "get go" of Ibadi Islam as a method of passing down "the way of life in the past"… Like for example the ancient loading of a Dhow where participants mimic the loading of heavy stores and chests onto a make believe but real ( in terms of passing down the way of life) ship swaying and moving to drum beat. There is no mythology in this structure. It is a reflection of daily life. The Funun is just the method of "Transmission".

Islamic (and I do not want to get into a religious discussion) conceptual theology, does not, as in other religions promote the use of fable or alegory, moreover, it tends to be very factual… In the case of its historical support documentation it is absolutely clear upon dates and characters therefore we have at the outset of this religion a set of practices that could only be complete at the time the first Imam was elected…and a precise date.

Julanda Ibn Massoud was elected as the first Imam in 751 therefor by that time all the whistles, bells and fine details such as celebratory administration and scholistic theory etc of Ibadi Islam were intact and operational including the Eid celebrations and fasting and all. As were the celebratory folkloric traditions; "The Funun".

The Funun; The early genre folklore volumes of work also contains the Razha. The Razha is the ancient sword dance with the Old Long Kattara and Buckler Shield(Terrs). It is in 2 parts . One is a celebratory parade with shimmering swords and participants leaping in the air and throwing and catching of swords... the blades humming and oscillating by the rapid wrist action of the swordholders etc. and without Terrs. The other is a mimic fight …All set to the drum beat this has become like a martial art but its technically the passing down of that part of their way of life ... War !
These pageants are reenacted twice a year to celbrate each Eid and at weddings and other meetings of dignatories and international guests e.g. at celebrations and National Day etc ... as they have mostly always been done since the beginning of Ibadi Islam. As the seat of Ibadi Islam, Nizwa, has always retained these "Funun" traditions.

Since the Old Omani Long Kattara is therefore on the scene in 751 A.D. in the Funun dances we can safely assume that the Short Omani Battle Sword was in the arena at about the same period and by annalysing a previous leaders history a likely scenario appears ~ Via Jabr Ibn Zayd.

He was a Nizwa man. Not only was Nizwa the place Oman received the letter asking it to join Islam which it agreed to do … but it was also to become the seat the centre and the Capital of both Ibadi Islam and of the Interior and during later struggles down the centuries against Coastal Oman as a country often split in half and at war with itself rather like "The War Of the Roses". Thus Nizwa is important since from here swords would have been traded to neighboring countries and the nearest were by regular camel train to what is now Saudia and Yemen. Hardly surprising then that swords turn up in Riyadh Souk and in Yemeni Museums bearing a striking resemblance to Omani Kattara but with weird old hilt forms. Perhaps more odd is the appearance of an Iconic looking Wallace Collection Dress Sword.

Having been in Iraq for many years Jabr Ibn Zayd would have been ideally placed to view the technology of the Abbasid swords. He returned to Oman destined and determined to lead his country against the Abbasid invaders garrisoned there and who were punitive, being against the advance and accepting of Ibadi Islam. He was a fighter and a leader and achieved his ambition eventually, however, he died in 711 AD . I believe that by then the idea of the celebratory hilt upon the Omani Short Battle Sword and indeed upon the Old Omani Long Kattara were sealed, however, it is the latter date of 751 AD which I believe is more acceptable as the date of inauguration of the first Immam. To bridge the possible problem however I have stated a date not later than 751 A.D. "for both weapons." Even taking the date of Islam entering Oman as 630 AD as the date before which that pair of weapons could not have appeared, the bracket is still quite a narrow one, moreover, it is based upon irrefutable "folklore" and "religious" fact.

In some cases hearsay, guesswork or mis-aligned data have confused an already clouded history. Many of the later dates have been in a wide range from the 10th to the 19th Century and attempts to tag the system to African, Baluch, Portuguese, Spanish and other regions when in fact they are Omani (hilts). In some cases the guesswork is time barred by as much as 500 years and even more as I have seen one reference in a Museum to the 19th Century! on an ancient Omani "Excalibur" equivalent from 751 AD !! All these guesstimates failed at the outset to follow one simple idea... that to solve the crime you need a motive.. An Islamic sword can hardly have evolved from the Portuguese in the 16th Century since the Portuguese regularly slaughtered Omanis and the time scale is wildly out or from a Persian sword since Oman adopted Islam before them and anyway theirs is the wrong sect..The Nasrid sword is too late by 500 plus years and separated by thousands of miles of mountains, sea and desert and is altogether unrelated.

Nasrid, Portuguese, Baluch, African, Indian, Persian. No. It is time to set the record straight. These are Omani and in the case of the Long blade it could and probably does predate Islam but ~ I respectfully submit that;

"The Old Hilted Long and Short weapons are both Omani from not later than 751 A.D.".

Regards,

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note on Omani Short Battle Sword; It was introduced by Jabr Ibn Zayd who had been in Iraq and had returned to Oman to lead the nation against the Abbasid Garrisons. He died in 711 however 751 A.D marked the date of the first elected Imam thus giving the clue to this swords approximate operational birth. This Imam was called Julanda Ibn Massoud and ironically he was killed fighting against the Abbasid a year later. It is a copy of the Abbasid sword with the addition of an Ibadi Islamic Hilt.
This is a close in fighting system however as yet no shield has been identified though its operation was likely to have been the same as the Roman Gladius. having been copied from the Abbasid sword then in use against Omanis by the Abbasid Garrison. (The hilt change is honorific extolling the new Islamic sect of Ibadism.)

Note on Old Omani Long Kattara; (At various times in the history of Oman this sword was exported to neighboring countries in what is now Yemen and Saudia Arabia probably from Nizwa. Once in place in its new abode this sword froze only to be awoken by two events ~ refitting with European trade blades between the 17th and 19 th centuries and 2. Iconic revival in what is now the style seen in the Wallace Collection and discussed here.)

References; A The entire forum debate so far, B Topkapi Museum Abbasid Swords, C Ingrams Visier to the Zanzibar Court Chronicles 1931. D Islamic Arms by Antony North (V and A Museum), E.Sword in the Military Museum in Yemen photographed by Forums Michael Blalock, and F The Wallace Collection Sword,
As a bulk sized reference the following all together as Reference G; Al Ain Museum Old Omani Battle Sword, Kuwait Tariq Rajeb Museum Old Omani Battle Sword, Zuhair Museum Muscat Old Omani Battle Swords and Kattara, My own collections and those of clients numbering more than 30 such weapons.

Topkapi Reference:Web ~
Topkapi Abbasid Swords; Type into search Abbasid Swords Topkapi.
Medieval Swords and Helmets from Topkapi Museum - STLCC.edu
Medieval Swords and Weapons in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul (Part 2). Two swords dated to the Abbasid Period (ca. 9th century). ...
users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/turk/TopkapiArms2.html - United States - Cached

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,
In looking at these four hilts, it is difficult to determine at this point whether these are regional variations, or whether there is a transitional development shown at this point. I am under the impression that the examples we are now calling the 'short battle swords' with the downturned 'winged' type guard are most likely to have existed from quite early times in the Dhakiliyya, where they are believed to have evolved from early Abbasid swords and with that plausibly existed as a type from as early as the 8th century.

With the conservativism and relative isolation of the Ibadi Sect in these interior regions these earlier type hilts in the kattara continued traditionally.These then became concurrent with a longer bladed type kattara which reflects certain elements of the hilt form of this older form with the cylindrical grip and minaret type pommel, and was guardless. A similar cuff covers the root of the blade of both types of kattara.

It remains unclear whether these long bladed hybrid type kattaras, which are essentially the same as the the square pommeled form which we consider associated with the dynamic trade regions of the coast in Muscat and other points of the Sultanate including Zanzibar, were in use in the interior regions by the Ibadi contemporararily with the traditional battle swords or not.

Robert Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia", 1994, p.16) cites the 1821 narrative of James Fraser, who visited the Omani garrison at Ormuz and claimed the broadswords used by them resembled the Scottish broadsword blade, and that some of these were made in Yemen. I believe that he meant that they 'came' from Yemen, where they were probably mounted. The example posted by Michael Blalock in 2010 (and resembling the Wallace example) has a scabbard similar to the silver banded mounts known to have been from Yemen (Elgood p.15, noting C. Buttin's attribution) and that many of these had 17th century blades. These were likely of course German, and of the type of broadsword blades seen on Scottish swords as noted (Fraser), as most Scottish blades were German.

It would seem that many of these broadsword blades were German, and of the 17th and 18th centuries, and they were likely remounted numerous times during thier working lives as are most of the ethnographic swords. It would seem that the newer style hilts would be used, and perhaps these 'hybrids' are an amalgam of old form but with revised guard, or indeed transitional. The curved blades, though occasionally appearing in Omani kattara hilts, are it seems mostly 19th century.

It will be difficult to prove the 8th century origin on the hilt style of these early kattara now believed to be primarily of the interior regions until there is more proof. However, these do appear to be much earlier than the 17th-18th century date presumed by the blades found in many of them. Elgood (p.18, footnote #36) notes that one of these earlier hilts of bronze was sold at Sothebys (Islamic sale, 24 April, 1991, lot #1113) which was described as 12th-14th century. Though that attribution is not strongly supported, it is not necessarily disputed either.

As always, looking forward to continuing research and discussion. Do we have illustrations of the Abbasid swords in Istanbul?

All the best,
Jim
Salaams, Jim. Interesting account on Quote Robert Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia", 1994, p.16) cites the 1821 narrative of James Fraser, who visited the Omani garrison at Ormuz and claimed the broadswords used by them resembled the Scottish broadsword blade, and that some of these were made in Yemen.
I note the use of words "some" and "Yemen" ~ "Some" of their swords were from Yemen which means they probably had a mixture of short and long weapons.. The long blades by and before 1821 coming in as trade blades into "Yemen" ... Yemen in this context doesn't necessarily mean Yemen alone since it was common practice to refer to the entire region of Yemen and the Horn Of Africa as "Yemen". In fact many old charts and maps of that region have the Horn of Africa thus marked... "Yemen". It is not stretching it too far to assume the whole enclave included Zanzibar also... This would bring 3 huge trade operators into the region ie Dutch French and British East Indies Companies and others plying trade to the region via that hub.

What I find interesting about the trade blade is its one piece tang pommel and blade. This necessitates essentially getting rid of the Old Omani Kattara and replacing it completely with a new sword to which a simple handle was fitted embroidered with leather and silver etc... Whats more the Islamic shaped Pommel on the old sword is replaced with a square or rectrangular one however on closer inspection the Islamic pommel goes but the handle is Islamic arch shaped as a flat conical shape... but distinctly Islamic in nature. In addition the cuff is lost along with remnants of the folded quillons... or is it? Not exactly since the cuff on the Old Omani Kattara is quite long but only about half of it protrudes along the blade and the other half is contained by the handle construction ~ So in the "New" Omani Kattara half the cuff is still there and the islamic arch is also present..Interesting?

[Jim McDougall]

Hello Ibrahiim,
Thank you for reiterating some of the details we are discussing, and if I may clarify something as well for the benefit of those reading. This is not actually a debate as I perceive, but intended to be a constructive fact finding mission to discuss the plausibility of the ancestry of both swords we now have agreed to term the short battle kattara and the 'long' kattara to the mid 8th century.

Actually there is no reason to think that the Omani battle kattara of the shorter version did not exist in Oman in the 8th century, and that it was likely similar to those used by the Abbasids, which in turn were in the form of those of the Umayyads. The primary issue seems to be in determining the antiquity of the long kattara, which we are hoping to place concurrently present with the shorter version.

I spent some time going through "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" by the late Unsal Yucel (Istanbul, 2001, p.54), and he notes "...we may infer that the blades of the earliest Islamic swords were probably similar to the Umayyad and Abbasid swords in that they must also have been straight, double edged, blunt ended and without grooves". With this he is emphasizing that these were intended for chopping and slashing type cuts, and not for thrusting. There is unfortunately no mention of blade length nor variation of it. If I understand correctly, the longer version blades are to be considered with respect to the concept of the Razha in this period in Oman, so would not have been mentioned in this broader description of these blades.
In my opinion, the addition of grooves (fullers) was in these times the exception, as seems inferred here, and I would note that the name of the sword which became famed as one of the Prophet Muhammed's, and more so as that of the Imam Ali (whom he had presented it to) was Dhu al Fiqar. The interpretation of the name of this sword has been long debated and typically thought to mean having two points, however, it is now generally held that the wording means 'possessor of spines'...that is apparantly having two fullers in the blade.

Yucel discusses as well on p.54 that, "...unfortunately since virtually nothing is known of Umayyad and Abbasid hilts, quillon blocks and scabbards, it is not possible to make any deductions about the relationship between the fittings of the earliest Islamic swords and those of the Umayyad/Abbasid period".

Mr. Yucel, who served as head of the armoury section at the Topkapi Palace Museum , notes the work of Hans Stocklein who he states was the first scholar to study the Topkapi Museum collections ("Die Waffenschatze im Topkapu Sanayi Muzesi zu Istanbul ein Vorlanger Bericht" in Ars Islamica I, 1934, pp. 200-18). Yucel's text continues in discussing that the weapons in these collections have been mostly remounted and refurbished after being removed from Mamluk Egypt to Istanbul after its Ottoman conquest in 1453 and the Byzantine church of Hagia Eirene was converted into an arsenal.
While these modifications of course, in no way reduce the reverence and respect afforded these weapons, it does have effect on using them in determining the appearance they would have had in original context in the periods and attributions noted. Basically however, Yucel states that the blade attributions would be presumably as stated, despite modifications to dress in the later period.

This brings us to the question of the contemporary presence of both long and short blades in Oman in the 8th century. As noted, it seems that these blades were intended for chopping and slashing cuts, and of course, the shorter versions would have been for infantry style combat, particularly close quarters melee.
From what I have seen so far in reading, infantry were the primary forces in the warfare of these times in the 8th century in these armies. This would have been determinate in the type of swords used, and as the long blades would have been for cavalry or mounted combat, there would have been very small numbers it would seem of these long blades.
It seems that unclear Oman, had some sword blade producing, with some degree of export by caravan,but it does not seem that the limited number of long blades would have been sufficient for such export. In much more modern times,as noted, the term Yemen was broadly applied it would seem to refer to a realm more than a strategic geographic region, and as such it would be difficult to determine from early narratives, exactly which area swords and blades coming from Yemen might have been actually from. By the 19th century however, the long blades were already in place as previously discussed, and trade blade traffic was profoundly in place, especially in San'aa and with the British in Aden.

In looking into references in Yucel, I was also amazed that I had apparantly missed so much attention to the presence of gold filled holes in many of these blades, including of course those believed to be Umayyad and Abbasid. Apparantly, according to Yucel, these occur in numbers of one to seven dots, and often are placed strategically next to inscriptions or devotional passages as seen in a number of the plates. He claims these gold dots are to give the swordsman good luck, which is of course a simplified reference to the much more complex talismanic applications which may be present.
I would note that many of these swords were from Mamluk provenance before entering the Ottoman armouries, which may explain the presence of this affectation found on some swords in North African sphere, using usually copper filled holes. The placing of these often near the blade tip is in the same fashion seen on many of the blades in Topkapi, though they are often but one of numerous other dots on the blade.

The carrying of this interesting affectation through over a thousand years in these sword blades certainly hints at more powerful meanings than simply a good luck charm. It should be noted that as mentioned earlier, a gold nail was often hammered into Frankish blades in early times, actually around the time of the Abbasids, and that Frankish blades were indeed imported into the Dar al Islam. At this point a direct connection cannot be supported, but here it seemed worthy of note. Often the gold inlay, rather than a nail, was a cross or moon, and perhaps other devices. By later medieval times, the gold was replaced by latten (copper or brass) still gold colored metal, so the same symbolic effect was still rendered.


I hope these results from my foray into these references will be helpful as we consider more on continuing research into this fascinating topic.

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello Ibrahiim,
Thank you for reiterating some of the details we are discussing, and if I may clarify something as well for the benefit of those reading. This is not actually a debate as I perceive, but intended to be a constructive fact finding mission to discuss the plausibility of the ancestry of both swords we now have agreed to term the short battle kattara and the 'long' kattara to the mid 8th century.

Actually there is no reason to think that the Omani battle kattara of the shorter version did not exist in Oman in the 8th century, and that it was likely similar to those used by the Abbasids, which in turn were in the form of those of the Umayyads. The primary issue seems to be in determining the antiquity of the long kattara, which we are hoping to place concurrently present with the shorter version.

I spent some time going through "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" by the late Unsal Yucel (Istanbul, 2001, p.54), and he notes "...we may infer that the blades of the earliest Islamic swords were probably similar to the Umayyad and Abbasid swords in that they must also have been straight, double edged, blunt ended and without grooves". With this he is emphasizing that these were intended for chopping and slashing type cuts, and not for thrusting. There is unfortunately no mention of blade length nor variation of it. If I understand correctly, the longer version blades are to be considered with respect to the concept of the Razha in this period in Oman, so would not have been mentioned in this broader description of these blades.
In my opinion, the addition of grooves (fullers) was in these times the exception, as seems inferred here, and I would note that the name of the sword which became famed as one of the Prophet Muhammed's, and more so as that of the Imam Ali (whom he had presented it to) was Dhu al Fiqar. The interpretation of the name of this sword has been long debated and typically thought to mean having two points, however, it is now generally held that the wording means 'possessor of spines'...that is apparantly having two fullers in the blade.

Yucel discusses as well on p.54 that, "...unfortunately since virtually nothing is known of Umayyad and Abbasid hilts, quillon blocks and scabbards, it is not possible to make any deductions about the relationship between the fittings of the earliest Islamic swords and those of the Umayyad/Abbasid period".

Mr. Yucel, who served as head of the armoury section at the Topkapi Palace Museum , notes the work of Hans Stocklein who he states was the first scholar to study the Topkapi Museum collections ("Die Waffenschatze im Topkapu Sanayi Muzesi zu Istanbul ein Vorlanger Bericht" in Ars Islamica I, 1934, pp. 200-18). Yucel's text continues in discussing that the weapons in these collections have been mostly remounted and refurbished after being removed from Mamluk Egypt to Istanbul after its Ottoman conquest in 1453 and the Byzantine church of Hagia Eirene was converted into an arsenal.
While these modifications of course, in no way reduce the reverence and respect afforded these weapons, it does have effect on using them in determining the appearance they would have had in original context in the periods and attributions noted. Basically however, Yucel states that the blade attributions would be presumably as stated, despite modifications to dress in the later period.

This brings us to the question of the contemporary presence of both long and short blades in Oman in the 8th century. As noted, it seems that these blades were intended for chopping and slashing cuts, and of course, the shorter versions would have been for infantry style combat, particularly close quarters melee.
From what I have seen so far in reading, infantry were the primary forces in the warfare of these times in the 8th century in these armies. This would have been determinate in the type of swords used, and as the long blades would have been for cavalry or mounted combat, there would have been very small numbers it would seem of these long blades.
It seems that unclear Oman, had some sword blade producing, with some degree of export by caravan,but it does not seem that the limited number of long blades would have been sufficient for such export. In much more modern times,as noted, the term Yemen was broadly applied it would seem to refer to a realm more than a strategic geographic region, and as such it would be difficult to determine from early narratives, exactly which area swords and blades coming from Yemen might have been actually from. By the 19th century however, the long blades were already in place as previously discussed, and trade blade traffic was profoundly in place, especially in San'aa and with the British in Aden.

In looking into references in Yucel, I was also amazed that I had apparantly missed so much attention to the presence of gold filled holes in many of these blades, including of course those believed to be Umayyad and Abbasid. Apparantly, according to Yucel, these occur in numbers of one to seven dots, and often are placed strategically next to inscriptions or devotional passages as seen in a number of the plates. He claims these gold dots are to give the swordsman good luck, which is of course a simplified reference to the much more complex talismanic applications which may be present.
I would note that many of these swords were from Mamluk provenance before entering the Ottoman armouries, which may explain the presence of this affectation found on some swords in North African sphere, using usually copper filled holes. The placing of these often near the blade tip is in the same fashion seen on many of the blades in Topkapi, though they are often but one of numerous other dots on the blade.

The carrying of this interesting affectation through over a thousand years in these sword blades certainly hints at more powerful meanings than simply a good luck charm. It should be noted that as mentioned earlier, a gold nail was often hammered into Frankish blades in early times, actually around the time of the Abbasids, and that Frankish blades were indeed imported into the Dar al Islam. At this point a direct connection cannot be supported, but here it seemed worthy of note. Often the gold inlay, rather than a nail, was a cross or moon, and perhaps other devices. By later medieval times, the gold was replaced by latten (copper or brass) still gold colored metal, so the same symbolic effect was still rendered.


I hope these results from my foray into these references will be helpful as we consider more on continuing research into this fascinating topic.

All the very best,
Jim

Salaams Jim,
I agree that this indeed is a double edged discussion being both a debate and a fact finder. Any emotive input on my behalf is entirely accidental though I blame the computer network for firing my other previous reply into outer space never to return! Your reply is much appreciated and it is fascinating to see information rolling out from your big gun references. The late Unsal Yucel was one of the great masters.

What is missing from research on these matters is the doctrine upon update to his work since it was done almost 80 years ago and since then artefacts have appeared and are in his museum in Istanbul. Notably examples of Abbasid Swords..It is one such sword that I have compared favourably to the Omani Short Battle Sword in 11 different categories. Two crucial comparisons are the octagonal handle and the dot on the blade but the other 9 are also important.

I believe however that we are in more or less agreement that the Omani Short Battle Sword is in the 8th Century ballpark and from my viewpoint 751AD is a reasonable assessment of where it fits in that century, for now, pending new evidence. I believe that "rests the case' on the Omani Short at this time although I also think the reference of the Topkapi Abbasids Swords needs viewing by your experienced eye..I am certain that, had the late Unsal Yucel (and therefor Hans Stocklein) seen these exhibits they would examined them and have included them but at the time these exhibits were not available. Therefore, respectfully, it is also requested that we may have uncovered gems of information relevant to updating their brilliant work.

In terms of Umayyid examples however we have no known exhibits in any museum I know of although it would not be incorrect to suppose their swords were forerunners to the Abbasid and linked to a sword style generally called the Sword Of The Prophet though the precise style (since I think there are possibly 9 such variants) is somewhat unclear but accepting the forked tip version as Dhu al Fiqar ~ presented to the first Imam "Ali" . The reference to spines is usually taken as the two spikes on the tip though may refer additionally or in conjunction to the two fullers ? What is I believe quite important in our debate is the sense of a sword being handed on as the "baton" in honour of a relgious form.

I have been considering every country and situation surrounding the Omani timeframe being discussed here and ruling out dynasties which fall outside the parameters before and after the critical dates. Generally most neighboring countries (except the Abbasid in Iraq because they had a punitive garrison in Oman) fail that stress test, however, one other does not quite rule itself out. It is plausible that when Oman accepted the letter of invitation to accept Islam in Nizwa(see notes below) that they could have been handed a sword as well ! Here is your religion and here is a sword that if required will reinforce it !! Not the sword of the prophet but something similar, either with a handle already fitted or ...fitted by the Omanis later. The sword hilt being generally honorific to "Islam central" rather than Omans later adoption specifically for the Ibadi sect.

So there is within our debate something of a conundrum.. either way one could argue that we are in the right aproximate timeframe of 630 AD to 751 AD(not later than) and thus a far more accurate aproximation than ever considered previously.

Just to clarify that point; Oman accepted Islam at Nizwa by letter in 630 AD however it was a while later within 100 years that they modified their religious style to the sect of Ibadi Islam. Did the Omanis adopt a sword and hilt at the very beginning i.e. 630AD or later but not later than 751 AD ? (The later date being the elected date of the First Imam; Jalunda ibn Masoud) Did the sword appear because of the general acceptance of Islam and the letter in 630 AD or with Jabr Ibn Zayd who brought the technology with him from Iraq later? He died in 711 AD.

Almost as a note in the margin; I need also to mention an aspect of viewing Islamic architectural references to hilt shape since at the time not many Islamic archways, domes or minaraettes had actually been built and it would be incorrect to wheel out for example 12th century examples when it demands a current (8th C) or earlier reference... Islamic Art by David Talbot Rice 1975 revised edition page 30 is a better dated example of Abbasid Islamic archway work in Iraq of the 8th C. and before and lends weight to my Abbasid theory.

Your reference to dots on blades is interesting and is well backed up by powerful reference to the Turkish Masters doctrine. I think that is a remarkable find. The talismanic effect is agreeable with all our findings and single or multiple dots are now fully understood. The Abbasid Sword in the Topkapi has a dot as does the Omani Short Battle Sword in a variety of configurations and I have seen single and triples in various blade positions.

The Old Omani Long Kattara. I attribute this to the same period since it has the same hilt and because it is in the Funun. The blade is probably earlier and could be generally an arabian style or related to other earlier swords. Im afraid I can dive no deeper on this search since my references and therefor my oxygen have somewhat run out, however, my original statement (in fact all 4 statements) at my previous letter still stands and support on this issue, as has been agreed on the Omani Short Battle Sword, is sought.



I think we agree thatThe Omani Short Battle Sword has a sharp point and a rigid two edged blade capable of chopping action and thrust "gladius action" blade strike around an as yet undefined but logically large shield. On the other hand the Old Omani Long Kattara had the slash and snick blade with a round point ideal for cuts and fast action around a buckler (Terrs) shield. Neither sword is for mounted cavalry. The Omani terrain rules cavalry out. I would imagine the ideal weapon for cavalry at that time was the long spear or lance. I see both swords more in the dismounted infantry role. I see no reason why the numbers of long swords would be any greater or smaller than the short, in fact, a good 50/50 mix would have been quite formidable. I have however no idea of the Omani "battle order format" and whether they had lots of cavalry or not, however, I agree they would have had more infantry but with both swords spread throughout... more or less in equal numbers in what could be imagined as light and heavy infantry.

In terms of your reference regarding export and sword production; metalworking was advanced in the Nizwa area and mining was done considerably in the Megan region and elsewhere..though I dont believe a lot of export occured before the appearance of European blades. Thereafter I can see how there would be a lot of redundant Old Omani Long Kartara since they were being superceded by Euro Blades totally replacing the old weapons which would then have been up for export in large numbers.

If this general theory is acceptable and therefore also regarding the Old Omani Long Kattara then the follow-on, including the transmission to neighboring regions and the transition to Iconic form and thus the sword in the Wallace Collection etc. are logical. The transfer of euro blades onto the scene from the 17th Century is ironic in that like the Scotish Claymores which are actually German!! ~ Omani Kattaras are European!! (at least in view of their recent manufacture) It is also a notable time since it triggered the replacement and consequently export of Old Omani Kattara to neighboring regions where it froze but "morphed" later into what is now the Wallace Collection sword..

Whilst by no means the end of the story I think we have a solid foundation of reasoned research to underwrite our findings so far and underpin all of my "4 basic statements". :shrug:


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes on Oman; The Omanis were among the first people to embrace Islam.[18] The conversion of the Omanis is usually ascribed to Amr ibn al-As, who was sent by Muhammad around 630 AD to invite Jayfar and 'Abd, the joint rulers of Oman at that time, to accept the faith. In accepting Islam, Oman became an Ibadhi state, ruled by an elected leader, the Imam. During the early years of the Islamic mission, Oman played a major role in the Wars of Apostasy that occurred after the death of Muhammad, and also took part in the great Islamic conquests by land and sea in Iraq, Persia and beyond. Oman's most prominent role in this respect was through its extensive trading and seafaring activities in East Africa and the Far East, particularly during the 19th century, when it propagated Islam to many of East Africa's coastal regions, certain areas of Central Africa, India, Southeast Asia and China.

After its conversion to Islam, Oman was ruled by Umayyads between 661–750, Abbasids between 750–931, 932–933 and 934–967, Qarmatians between 931–932 and 933–934, Buyids between 967–1053, and the Seljuks of Kirman between 1053–1154.

By Ibrahiim ~ The dates are important because it is the brackets around the Abbasid period which are relevant since this is the Ibadi transitional period covering that sects adoption in Oman, leadership by Jabr Ibn Zayd and the fight with the Abbasid. 630 to 751 being key date parameters.

References:
A. Islamic Art by David Talbot Rice 1975 revised edition page page 30.
B. Topkapi Museum Abbasid Sword examples as at previous letter and viewable at website (search Topkapi Museum Abbasid Swords for pictures etc).

[A.alnakkas]

Slightly off topic but are all Kattara have a flexible blade?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Slightly off topic but are all Kattara have a flexible blade?
Salaams,
So it seems. As a caution however please note that Omanis also call the Omani Short Battle Sword Kattara as well... so in that case no. In the Long .. yes.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I would like to add two fine references to our work so far and as direct take offs from the web other Forum users may be interested to view these...

1.PISANELLO’S HAT.
THE COSTUME AND WEAPONS DEPICTED
IN PISANELLO’S MEDAL FOR JOHN VIII PALAEOLOGUS.
A DISCUSSION OF THE SABER AND RELATED WEAPONS.

and another

2.SWORDS AND SABERS DURING THE EARLY ISLAMIC PERIOD.

What is quite refreshing is that though we (certainly not I) did not have access earlier to these references that in retrospect they support our theory.

The question of Sword of the Prophet is clearly a complex one. D. Alexander variously tends to sideline the entire subject very cleverly by suggesting that dates may be false on some or more or less avoids the issue leaving in my mind "a view" that many of these weapons were either spoils of war or gifts to the family of the Prophet and to their vast armoury. (The Yemen it is known, gave many swords on this basis). A lot of them were later modified and decorated in gold etc. In my view and largely after his death the Prophets legacy inspired extensive socio / political spin doctoring and the Sword of The Prophet in whatever form may have been a vehicle for much of that. Indeed the bifurcated sword also adorned many battle banners centuries after and the banners themselves were split designs mirroring the two pointed or two spined weapon. On the crusades one european commentator got it wrong (understandably) when he related to the battle ensign shape as a pair of trousers on a pole! The bifurcated weapon thereby appears as part of an index or structure of Islamic Heraldic symbols and whereas all Heraldic symbolism is usually confined to shields the sword and sword hilt in particular regarding the Omani duo of weapons discussed certainly queu up for that sort of recognition.

Like D. Alexander I think we can boil down a deduction that the Islamic and much favoured double edged broadsword was a key component in what we have been discussing.

The fact that a sword was given to Ali by the Prophet illustrates an important factor when we consider the honorific status(to Ibadi Islam) we have discussed on the Omani Short and Old Omani Long Kattara in respect of their specially shaped Hilts.

One perplexing reference appears in the second reference to a master sword maker in Basra called "Zayd" in the correct time frame! ( I wish that this could be the same Zayd (Jabr Ibn Zayd) that returned to lead Oman against the Abbasids but as yet I have zero proof of this strange co incidence in names.) (Kufa is in Iraq) (Basura is of course Basra) viz;

~ Al-Kindi mentions a smith named Zayd, working in Kufa, and comments that one of the important types made in Kufa was the baid (white). He also noted that Basùra was an important center of production, swords produced there seem to have been renowned for the strength of their steel.~

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim,
I start this letter with a simple phrase "The demolition of my own theory" and for that reason I place my 4 statements on a pedestal so that they can be seen to be knocked down where required viz;

1. "The Omani Short Battle Sword came into being between late 7thC and not later than 751 AD having been copied from the Abbasid sword then in use against Omanis in Oman by the Abbasid Garrison from Iraq"

2. ''The Old Omani Long Kattara was introduced at the beginning of Ibadi Islam not later than 751AD i.e. at the same time as the Short Omani Battle Sword''

3. The Modern Omani Long Kattara; (Long flexible usually European replacement blade with pommel tang and blade as one piece on a conical flat hilt). "This is the updated 17th C to 19th C rehilted on a new style blade, therefore, a totally restyled modern version of the old sword at 2.
The Shield, (Terrs) however, never changed".

4 . The Wallace Collection Sword; (Iconic badge of Office VIP Dress Sword on long carry scabbard with magnificent furniture and silver Hilt with a European Blade etc. No apparent Shield). "This is the restyled, exported, frozen old Omani Long Kattara awakened and brought up to Iconic, Badge of Office status for a dignitary or VIP. Likely provenance Yemen between the 17th and 19th Century A.D".

You will be delighted to hear that statement 1 stands and another is modified. The rest are about to fall; What struck me was that;

1. No example of an old Omani Long Kattara exists in any museum or collection neither complete ?
2. In blade only form?
3. Nor hilt only form?
4. In addition I could never find a shield to go with the Old Omani Battle Sword?
5. I could not fathom out why an Ibadi based religious country would export an Ibadi blade and or hilt to a non Ibadi country?
6. In that case why would the receiving country Iconize a religious blade not of their faith?
7. Why do Omani people call both the Short and Long; Kattara?

In researching David Alexander and David Nichol I discovered that the long cuff sword which looks like a stretched Omani Short Battle Sword is in fact Mamluke. That doesn't rule out a link altogether since Mamluke and Abbasid were very similar styles but it begins to deepen the dent and I believe the Wallace Collection Sword to be from that provenance ( geographically its only a short Red Sea trip from Mamluke Egypt to Saudia and Yemen so it fits the scenario whilst my link I believe disolves on motive, religion and just cause. I therefor withdraw statement 4.

Omani Long Kattara. This sword never existed before the 17th Century! Well it did... as the Omani Short Battle Sword !! It was simply superceded. We have been chasing a non existant weapon which explains why we could not find an original blade or hilt. Statement 2 is withdrawn

The Old Omani Short Battle Sword is the sword in the Funun and is a few inches shorter than when it started life but the wingshaped heavier blade (technically they didnt have the expertise to fuller this weapon) took a long time to replace. It was used with the Terrs shield in battle and in celebration of the Ibadi sect. In about the 17th Century it began to be superceded with the Long Kattara, from Euro trade blades. The Omanis simply switched the Terrs. The new sword was a more flexible blade and much lighter and enabled a more vigourous dance routine. Statement 1. stands and statement 3 is modified as "This is the updated 17th C to 19th C sword using new style european blade and adopting the Terrs Shield and eventually superceded the Old Omani Battle Sword. :shrug:

It was not for nothing that both swords were called the same name ..Kattara.. because, in fact, prior to being superceded there was only one sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Awesome Job Ibrahim Jazaak allah khair. I liked it alot that you demolished your own theory which shows alot of professionalism in your quest for knowledge. Now after you demystified the mystery, how about we move to the Badaawi saif and the syrian style? :P

Perhaps your expertise will be best put in a book or a site dedicated for swords but in arabic. I find information about swords circulating the internet in arabic to be very unprofessional.

I'll email you soon and cant wait to see your opinion about such a thing.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Awesome Job Ibrahim Jazaak allah khair. I liked it alot that you demolished your own theory which shows alot of professionalism in your quest for knowledge. Now after you demystified the mystery, how about we move to the Badaawi saif and the syrian style? :P

Perhaps your expertise will be best put in a book or a site dedicated for swords but in arabic. I find information about swords circulating the internet in arabic to be very unprofessional.

I'll email you soon and cant wait to see your opinion about such a thing.

Salaams,
Heres a brilliant book all done in Persian and Arabic apparently...Sazmandehi Nezami va Sazman Razm va Tahavolat an dar Tarikhe Islam: az Agaz ta payan Asr Abbasi [Military Organization and Deployment in the History of Islam: From the beginning until the End of the Abbasids] by Ga’edan, Asgar, published in 2003 (1382) in Tehran. :shrug:

[A.alnakkas]

Hmm, I have never heard of this book. Could be interesting to search for.

[fernando]

... The Portuguese were ejected in 1650 from Muscat and persued down the African coast as far as Mozambique and harrassed all over the Indian Ocean in Goa etc etc. Contrary to what people may think, they in fact, used Indian mercenaries as their soldiers on the ground and on their ships... Even a large Portuguese battleship had few Portuguese on board other than "the executives". Religiously they were somewhat biggotted and in no way shape or form would they have entertained an Islamic sword with an Islamic hilt in their arsenals... and in the same way the troopers were not muslims...but hindu. When the Portuguese sacked Sohar for example they slaughtered most of the inhabitants (including the Jewish community) They had a very huge bee in their bonnet about other religions in those days ! ...
Salaams Ibrahiim :)
I would be too lazy to revue to the chronicles of the period to erase my strongest doubts raised by your sources quotations that (all) Portuguese battleships sailing in those waters were in general massively handled by Indian mercenaries except for a few “executives” aboard.
I will therefore make a bypass and, concentrating on the weapons business, could you tell on what sources or evidence you stirrup, to conclude that Portuguese would not entertain Islamic (or Hindu) weapons based on religious prejudice.
Not being a scholar or close to it, i have come across through time with more than one written episode in that, being a determined weapon of special attributes or circumstantially convenient, in no way would the Portuguese reject it. I wouldn’t recall what would be the behavior of other cultures and their creeds in similar circumstances, but this however is not the issue here.
BTW, i find the “bigot” adjective a bit less diplomatic , but i don’t think the Portuguese of such period will read you.
Without going too deep into the chronicles, we know that:
… As early as the reconquest period (XII-XIII century), Portuguese (Christians) admired the crossbow used by the North African Moors, a light easy loading weapon, although with a lower penetration power, the “Kaous Alaarab”, and adopted it for their own use.
…The fact that one of the most used swords by their local adversaries in Asian lands, the talwar, was rejected, is written in the chronicles that, on one hand, the Portuguese had a greater confidence in their own weapons (pass the presumption) and, on the other, for the extensively discussed reason that Indian swords had handles/grips too small to be handled by Europeans.
… When it comes to artillery, we come to the same situation. I have the privilege to have appreciated in loco a magnificent cannon in the Lisbon Military Museum. Such fire mouth, re-baptized by the Portuguese “The Shot of Diu”, is a bronze basilisk from the XVI century, with a 23 cms caliber, a length of 6,11 mts and a 20 tons weight. It was made for the Sultan Bahâdur Xâh of Gujarat. It has such a rather fascinating inscription engraved on it that, once translated by a local erudite friar, has escaped to be molten for the forging of a monument to the King Dom José I (1750-77).
This cannon, built in 1533, was captured and brought to Portugal in 1538 and placed in the Lisbon Royal castle. Later in the kingdom of Dom João IV (1640-56) was transferred to the tower of São Julião da Barra, a strategic defense post of the Lisbon estuary. This to say that, for certain, such charismatic weapon would see immediate destruction instead of its persisting utility, if religious prejudice towards the use of other cultures was so overwhelming to Portuguese.
I hope you don't mind my coming in with an empirical approach to this little part of your comprehensive treatises.

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ibrahiim :)
I would be too lazy to revue to the chronicles of the period to erase my strongest doubts raised by your sources quotations that (all) Portuguese battleships sailing in those waters were in general massively handled by Indian mercenaries except for a few “executives” aboard.
I will therefore make a bypass and, concentrating on the weapons business, could you tell on what sources or evidence you stirrup, to conclude that Portuguese would not entertain Islamic (or Hindu) weapons based on religious prejudice.
Not being a scholar or close to it, i have come across through time with more than one written episode in that, being a determined weapon of special attributes or circumstantially convenient, in no way would the Portuguese reject it. I wouldn’t recall what would be the behavior of other cultures and their creeds in similar circumstances, but this however is not the issue here.
BTW, i find the “bigot” adjective a bit less diplomatic , but i don’t think the Portuguese of such period will read you.
Without going too deep into the chronicles, we know that:
… As early as the reconquest period (XII-XIII century), Portuguese (Christians) admired the crossbow used by the North African Moors, a light easy loading weapon, although with a lower penetration power, the “Kaous Alaarab”, and adopted it for their own use.
…The fact that one of the most used swords by their local adversaries in Asian lands, the talwar, was rejected, is written in the chronicles that, on one hand, the Portuguese had a greater confidence in their own weapons (pass the presumption) and, on the other, for the extensively discussed reason that Indian swords had handles/grips too small to be handled by Europeans.
… When it comes to artillery, we come to the same situation. I have the privilege to have appreciated in loco a magnificent cannon in the Lisbon Military Museum. Such fire mouth, re-baptized by the Portuguese “The Shot of Diu”, is a bronze basilisk from the XVI century, with a 23 cms caliber, a length of 6,11 mts and a 20 tons weight. It was made for the Sultan Bahâdur Xâh of Gujarat. It has such a rather fascinating inscription engraved on it that, once translated by a local erudite friar, has escaped to be molten for the forging of a monument to the King Dom José I (1750-77).
This cannon, built in 1533, was captured and brought to Portugal in 1538 and placed in the Lisbon Royal castle. Later in the kingdom of Dom João IV (1640-56) was transferred to the tower of São Julião da Barra, a strategic defense post of the Lisbon estuary. This to say that, for certain, such charismatic weapon would see immediate destruction instead of its persisting utility, if religious prejudice towards the use of other cultures was so overwhelming to Portuguese.
I hope you don't mind my coming in with an empirical approach to this little part of your comprehensive treatises.

.


Salaams,
Thank you for adding to this thread...Nice pictures of the cannon. What a funny name for a crossbow! Ha! I thank you also for a very well composed and superbly set out letter.

When it comes to choice of weapons I believe there is a finite mindshift between personal sword style and 20 ton cannon. I think the cannon would be a prize to be fought for and utilized thereafter by the winner. I have to say that was also the normal case on the battle field regarding blades / weapons of all natures .. winner takes all ! My previous letter was I recall vaguely trying to introduce the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean and I was dismissing the idea of the Omani Kattara being linked to them which we know it was not. The question as to Portuguese carrying non Potuguese arms is interesting and from the religious standpoint I maintain they did not which means I have to show very strong reasons why not. In addressing this point I must show very biased perhaps bigotted mindset of the Portuguese hierarchy which I will do..however what weapons their mercenaries carried I believe was normal... Indian Mercenaries carried Indian weapons etc I also need to show how Portuguese ships were crewed and why?

I draw your attention to the 3 reasons for the Portuguese being in the Indian Ocean 1. Gold and Silver 2. Spices 3. Mercenaries and Slaves.

History shows how much they at that time in the early renaissance disliked Muslims and how they hated Jews.

There is a peculiar irony in that the known preventive cure for malaria was "Jews Harp" but that most Portuguese explorers would not take it (therefor died) because of the name.

They had hoped to find the fabled land of Presbeteri Iohanis or Prester John said to be a Christian Kingdom somewhere in the region of the horn of Africa where it was hoped substantial numbers of Mercenaries could be hired to fight the Muslims. Myth, fable and stories of strange hordes charging through north Russia inspired the Portugues to link Ghengis Khans marauding armies to this African powerbase..thinking they too were Christians.

Most of the search teams deployed by the Portuguese died of malaria etc in their futile attempts to find the mythical nation. In the end they were able to hire Indian Hindu mercenaries although I know there were others such as Malibaris..

As an example of their outright cruelty witness what they did in Sohar, Oman. Sohar being a huge trading port was filled with Jews at that time in the early 1500s. The Portuguese slaughtered every prisoner after intense torture. The favourite method being removal of nose, ears, hands then the corpse was nailed up. ( except one old chap who showed them the way to Hormuz)

The Portuguese had mastered the art of torture, star chamber, the Inquisition and all but it was a hatred driven by religious bigotry which fueled their fire. Basically they were Fanatical Christian Bigots.

Its amazing what 600 years can do, however, and now I have a lot of really good Portuguese mates !

Notwithstanding the odd "spoil of war" 20 ton bronze cannon the Portuguese tended to stick to Portuguese weapons and I have had a few rapiers from that period but I see no reason why they would not allow their Mercenaries to carry Hindu weapons. My previous work may have rushed over that point.

Aboard a Portuguese Battle Ship there would have been the usual Portuguese command; Captain, Second Officer and Navigator, Gun Captains and a skeleton crew but the fighting contingent was largely Hindu mainly because Portugal was such a small country but it underlines one of the 3 basic reasons for exploitation in the Indian Ocean i.e. Mercenaries. I believe they also carried a religious person to inspire their requirements, torture techniques, Wrath of God, Inquisition and that sort of thing etc.

If I may add just a few additional examples of what one author called "the uncompromising attitudes of the Christian reconquista"
(Please do not take this personally after all a lot of nations have done things in history which were pretty terrible; but you did ask...so I should prove it)

Almeida had fought at the siege of Granada that ended in 1492, and he brought with him to the Indian Ocean the uncompromising attitudes of the Christian reconquista. He sacked Kilwa, which had four stone-throwing catapults for its defense, and deposed the sultan in favor of another more amenable to the Portuguese. Further up the coast, Mombasa had some 3700 men of military age and cannon that fired on the Portuguese as they entered the port. The Portuguese, in return, bombarded the town. A Spanish convert to Islam came out and told the Portuguese to leave, that the people of Mombasa were braver than those of Kilwa. That night, Almeida put the town to the torch and in the morning sacked it, killing some 1500 people and taking great quantities of cotton cloth, silk and gold-embroidered textiles as well as valuable carpets. The king of Mombasa wrote to the king of Malindi to warn him of what might befall him: “This is to inform you that a great lord has passed through the town, burning it and laying it waste. He came to the town in such strength and was of such cruelty, that he spared neither man nor woman, old nor young—nay, not even the smallest child…. Nor can I ascertain nor estimate what wealth they have taken from the town. I give you this news for your own safety.”

Vasco de Gama’s first voyage was an intelligence gathering one. He returned in 1502 at the head of a flotilla of twenty-five ships armed with the most powerful cannons in the Portuguese inventory and bombarded the city states all along the east African coast. His first encounter with shipping in the Indian Ocean was a vessel carrying 700 returning hajjis from Mecca to India. An Indian Muslim from Malabar, Merim, owned the ship. Disregarding pleas for mercy, de Gama burned the ship with all of its occupants, women and children included.

When the Portuguese arrived off the coast of Calicut, the Raja of Calicut, Manna Vikrama, sent an emissary, a Brahmin of high repute, to negotiate peace. The ambassador arrived on board the Portuguese flagship with his two sons and a nephew. De Gama cut off the hands, nose and ears of the ambassador, and had the three young men nailed to crosses.

The bombardment of Calicut began in earnest, wreaking havoc on that ancient city. He then turned his attention to the ships in anchor. He treated the captured Hindus the same way he had treated the Brahmin ambassador of the Raja, cutting off their hands, noses and ears and piling them up in heaps on board his ships. But the most sadistic treatment was reserved for captured Muslims. One Khwaja Muhammed, a noted merchant from Egypt was captured, beaten, his mouth stuffed with pig refuse, and then set afire. Such atrocities were repeated wherever the Portuguese went on the Indian coast.


Within a span of fifteen years, the Portuguese had destroyed the thriving city-states of East Africa, captured strategic naval posts all along the Indian Ocean and the Arabian Sea, occupied the entrances to both the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf, and disrupted the trade that had flowed from India, Sumatra and China to West Asia and East Africa. Once thriving cities on the African seaboard became ghost towns. Violence, greed, enmity and ruthlessness took over trade and cooperation. Portuguese hatred of Muslims was unbounded. Wherever they landed, their first targets were the Muslims. The Inquisition was instituted in Goa against both Hindus and Muslims, and instructions were passed out by the Portuguese governor that no Muslim was to be hired, even though the territory of Goa had been a part of the Sultanate of Bijapur, and had a large number of Muslims in it.

Lastly an example of the crew make up on a Portuguese ship though I seem to remember somewhere reading about Battleship Crew Make up this example is trader ships but gives the idea ~

In all the ports controlled by the Portuguese, Albuquerque instituted the system of the cartaz, a trading licence authorizing a ship to carry cargo. Ships without a cartaz, which of course had to be purchased from the Portuguese port authorities, were fair game. This simple protection racket, plus customs duties and some outright piracy, raised the money to defray part of the cost of manning garrisons and maintaining the navy—as well as purchasing cotton textiles to trade for spices in the Moluccas and for gold and ivory in East Africa. The cartaz system enabled the Portuguese to exercise some control over trading networks that they could not dominate. In time, they raised further revenues by selling concessions for specific maritime trade routes to Asian shipowners. By the mid-16th century Asian merchants were shipping their goods on Portuguese ships and vice versa. And even the Portuguese ships were crewed by men from Arabia, Malabar, Gujarat, Malaysia and Indonesia, with perhaps one or two Portuguese officers. Pidgin Portuguese became the lingua franca of the Indian Ocean ports.

Regards Ibrahiim.

[fernando]

Hi Ibrahiim
If I have read with full attention your post #13, i should have guessed that, your reply to my two innocuous questions (actually one doubt and one question), could result in a reply far beyond the technicalities of historic weaponry and their periphery.
So it happened that, specially after you edited your post, i am faced with an authentic catharsis over the Portuguese atrocities during the 16th century.
You tell me not to take it personally but, to my eyes, the energy you transmit to this issue is hardly unpersonal.
I fail to see where the largest part of your post contents is intrinsic to the questions i have posed, as also they appear to be far distant from the scope of this venue and too close from its restrictions, namely religion and politics.
Assuming i have opened the door to such situation and before this discussion derails into a (more) unpleasant path, i will punish myself and unwillingly refrain from further commenting on your vast exposition.
Therefore i will render the points and suggest we drop this conversation.
Kind regards

[Jim McDougall]

I am inclined to agree that continuing this course with such obvious polarity in views concerning political issues in the history of these periods and regions would be counterproductive to the discussion of the kattara, the original topic of this thread. While I must admit the presentation of both sides here is most impressive and profound, it is in my opinion not particularly relevant to the study of the weapon itself. That too could of course be argued, but more well placed in debate venue.
Intriguing reading in any case gentlemen! Thank you.

Best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I am inclined to agree that continuing this course with such obvious polarity in views concerning political issues in the history of these periods and regions would be counterproductive to the discussion of the kattara, the original topic of this thread. While I must admit the presentation of both sides here is most impressive and profound, it is in my opinion not particularly relevant to the study of the weapon itself. That too could of course be argued, but more well placed in debate venue.
Intriguing reading in any case gentlemen! Thank you.

Best,
Jim

Salaams Jim,
I would propose the following with which to bring this threads topic back on track: I wish to disprove a commonly held theory that Omani Kattara are European supposedly (though as far as I can deduce without proof) from the European Trade Blade concept. What is certain is that the Kattara appeared from somewhere and it is my suspicion they were developed closer to home.

My whole treatise on the Old Kattara forms a major part of this thread and a quick glance back through the details shows the conundrum ; The Old kattara (turned down quillons, Islamic Pommel, wing shaped blade) is from circa 8th C and appears at the start of Ibathi Islam as it is in the Funun; The accepted passage of tradition via music dance and mimicry. So why would Oman adopt a European blade in about the 17th / 18th C ? I find it hard to believe that a sword which was a virtual heraldic symbol, an icon of Ibathi Islam, ousted by a European Trade Blade. So my first doubt is a cultural one.

For Oman to take on a new system (and it can be seen that the new sword is quite different in many ways though similar in others) a whole mind shift would be needed in Nizwa as the governing body over the Ibathi structure. This weapon was to take the name Kattara and to absorb the Terrs buckler shield. It would need a completely fresh fighting approach as the long blade was spatula tipped and no good as a stabbing sword. It would change the Funun. My second doubt considers the religious and traditional mindset which a European trade blade contravenes.

It is difficult to see how a European sword could come into Oman via Muscat and then somehow be absorbed so that Nizwa then adopted it... The coast and the Interior were at constant running disagreement with each other. Whilst some trade may have taken place between the Interior and Coast the other routes by camel were to Mecca, Yemen, and the Gulf Coast via Buraimi Oasis and on up the line of mountains to Ras Al Khaimah etc etc. My third doubt is therefor socio-geographical.

I can find no swords with blades like the New Kattara outside of Oman...Yes there are blades which are similar in Ethiopia and Sudan but they are very different carrying distinct blade marks and without the same tang and pommel(blade tang and pommel made all as one) as the new Omani kattara.. If a new blade was sweeping through Africa would we not see evidence of it cropping up in Red Sea locations like Yemen, Saudia, Ethiopia and Sudan etc? Are we to believe that suddenly out of the blue a new kattara arrives; bang ! I do not buy that . We know that it appears in Zanzibar but that is likely to be because it was taken there by the Omanis who owned the territory. Doubt four is thus: No evidence of a transmission route overland via Africa or the Red Sea. No evidence of European swords being directly shipped to Oman.

I can find no proof that thousands of Kattara supposedly made in Europe were sent directly to Oman by ship. Some swords carry the running wolf stamp however these are fake stamps. Where were they stamped? Assuming that place of stamp = place of manufacture?

Not one Omani blade has a European sword factory stamp whereas masses of swords (Trade Blades) in Africa carry the correct German and European insignia and decorated blades. No Gurda. No European Factory Marks. What they do have marking the blades is the occasional "God Is Great" phrase or a Lion and/or crown mark ~ The Crown being generally attributed to what locals call Taj.. British India. So are these blades Indian or Sri Lankan? Therefor this doubt, number five, focusses on the absence of European factory marks but the inclusion of Islamic wording and some apparent British India Crowns and Lions.

Wootz blades would give clue to Indian blades. I have never seen a wootz blade in Oman though this forum has shown a couple which I believe are one-offs. Wootz is called Johar here and is not the style of blade in either dagger or sword. I therefor generally dont buy the India/Sri Lanka connection.

So we are looking for a sword maker closer to home who could produce perhaps a few hundred swords a year and who was on a camel trade route and who could knock out blades with suitable stamps (fake crowns, Lions, genuine religious chants) even as they do today.

My finger points to Ras Al Khaimah. :shrug:

Regards,

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Salam,

This sword I have for a while.. The blade looks like those used in Kattaras but the hilt is yemeni.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salam,

This sword I have for a while.. The blade looks like those used in Kattaras but the hilt is yemeni.

Salaams, Nice sword. I would say a hybrid? Certainly a Yemeni Nimcha Hilt variant. The blade notwithstanding the blade marks which are not Omani (If blade marks were applied at the manufacture point then this may be an indicator of provenance) is of a wing shaped cross section whereas Kattara Omani are flat. I imagine this blade to be quite rigid. This looks like a one off... its a nice South Arabian sword all the same. :shrug: Mabrook ! Ibrahiim.

[A.alnakkas]

Thanks Ibrahim, Allah yebarek feek.

The blade is not like the Kattaras I've seen, its rigid and thick at the ricasso. the blade is very sharp at the tip. The only similarity to Kattara blades is the spatula shaped tip?

[kahnjar1]

Salaams, Nice sword. I would say a hybrid? Certainly a Yemeni Nimcha Hilt variant. The blade notwithstanding the blade marks which are not Omani (If blade marks were applied at the manufacture point then this may be an indicator of provenance) is of a wing shaped cross section whereas Kattara Omani are flat. I imagine this blade to be quite rigid. This looks like a one off... its a nice South Arabian sword all the same. :shrug: Mabrook ! Ibrahiim.
.....so what about these two? The kattara here has what you describe as a wing shaped cross section, ..............and what about the mark also on a kattara but not the one shown full length.?

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Ibrahiim for returning this thread to topic, and again it is a fascinating topic which truly needs to be discussed to learn more on the development of swords in these regions.
I need to review notes to readdress some points, for example that the adoption of European blades, and in many cases examples from India and the Caucusus occurred in the 17th century onwards is primarily..availability. It is all very much commercially rather than culturally oriented, and much as in the Sudan. The sword until relatively modern times remained the weapon of nobles and individuals of means and standing. As trade strengthened with exposure to wider scope of materials, particularly with colonial incursions, the inclusion of sword blades also increased. In the Saharan routes, Kano was oe key point of dispersal....in the Middle East, Damascus was a key hub, in India there were a number of these many on the Malabar Coast. In Arabia, it was of course Oman, and properly, Muscat. This was a point of contact where merchants traded and dispersed wares into East African and Red Sea trade, and of course the movement of these materials entered land routes.

As we have discussed, the interior of Oman, strictly Ibadi, carried on trade independantly via camel routes through regions not necessarily within the spheres of maritime trade, but still it would be impossible to consider that goods did not diffuse via route confluences at many points. The forms of 'traditional' kattara with downward quillons and the distinct mosque domed pommel would seem to have been maintained strictly within fundamental standards and not influenced nor refurbished with European blades in most cases I am aware of. I think that the ancestry of this form can likely be traced to early Abbasid forms, and remained in use traditionally into fairly modern times, contemporary with the coastal kattaras.

The coastal (Muscat) cylindrical hilted versions of kattara again, as discussed, seem to be largely mounted with trade blades, and the adoption of this distinct form seems to be keenly associated to the increased import of trade broadsword blades.
BTW, Stu, I believe the stamp on the blade you show in one from the Caucasian regions, and these are seen it seems usually on qama and other weapons produced in Transcaucasian regions. I believe it is known in Arabia as the number of blades brought into many regions were via Ottoman auspices and of course via Syria. I have seen numbers of Syrian hilt sabres with Hungarian blades misidentified as East European sabres with notably East European inscriptions.
The sword shown by A. Ainakkas is one of relative commanality and indeed of Yemeni type with it seems most of them being latter 19th into early 20th but often with refurbished older blades. The 'karabela' style hilt with subtle trilobate pommel is characteristic on a number of Yemeni, particularly Hadhramaut forms.

All best regards,
Jim

[TVV]

Sorry Ibrahim, the evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the use of trade blades on the longer, 18-19th century kattaras. If you go all the way back to the very first post in this thread you will see a kattara blade with a variety of markings - a termometer, eyelashes and crosses. All of those are quite common and can be traced back to well known earlier European examples.

Per Elgood, many of these blades were exported to Alexandria and Cairo, from where they were distributed throughout Arabia. If the Omanis were able to adopt the curved blade (most likely from Caucasian shashkas), then I do not see why they would not adopt the longer broadsword blade a century or so earlier, especially in light of the fact that German and Hungarian blades were very popular throughout the rest of the Arab Peninsula.

Personally, I think you put way too much stock in the cultural and religious barriers to the adoption of weapon forms, both in the case of the Omanis and the Portuguese. The hard evidence in the blades supports the theory that weapon forms diffused through trade, whereas your observations are so far entirely based on conjecture.

Regards,
Teodor

[A.alnakkas]

The use of European trade blades ranged from al-Sham to Yemen. Denial of it is refuted by material evidence and "natural" evidence (lack of steel manufacturers ment expensive local swords. Buying european blades was the cheapest option)

Followers of Imam Abdulwahab for example didnt have any problem using Lion stamped blades or bu-askiri (clauberg) stamped blades. I highly doubt they had the luxury to have a problem :-)

[kahnjar1]

Now we are getting back to some sort of sensibility at last. Thanks Jim, TVV, and Lofty. Of course there was wide spread use of trade blades throughout the colonial territories, including Oman. I will now show the full blade with the mark, which by the way came from Ibrahiim himself, and was described by him as a curved Kattara. So that rather blows the theory that the Omanis did not use trade blades, but made their own.

[Jim McDougall]

Stu thank you for showing the entire sword, and interesting to see the curved blade. If I recall that stamped figure is similar to markings I have seen on blades from Tblisi in Georgia, which was a busy trade center and there were numbers of Armenian smiths working there in the 19th century.

[ariel]

Can we simplify it?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to suggest, that the Old Kattara is just a variant of the pre-islamic straight-bladed Arab sword?

Arab invasion of Persia put them in contact with equally straight-bladed Iranian swords, so nothing changed at the beginning.

From conquered Persia they attempted to invade Europe from the East, but encountered Khazars, who were armed with true sabers. And that's when the Arabs switched to the curved blade. Persians might have taken it from them, or from the Turkic or Mongolian invaders.

The straight blade coexisted for a while, finding its way to Mamluks, Berbers and finally to Spain ( jineta). Subsequently, the most primitive tribes, Sudanese and Tuaregs, adopted it and preserved the form up to the contemporary tourist traps.
No need to invoke the imported blades for the early straight Arab blades. They had them from the beginning. The Portugese might have been surprised to find that their rapiers were identical to the Omani kattaras. Later on, everybody imported blades from everywhere, just like today upper-class americans import italian shoes, german cars and french perfume, while they import Mac Donalds and blue jeans.

[Jim McDougall]

The karabela hilt broadsword shown by A. Ainakkas is actually of a type mentioned in Elgood (1994, p.16) where they are described as with nimcha type blades, hilt karabella like in form with sheet or other metal partly covering the horn or wood grips. It is noted that Arabian traders claim these are often in suqs in Riyadh but are acquired in Yemen.
He also cites E.W.Lane writing in Cairo in 1835 ("The Modern Egyptians", 1836, repr. 1908) describing import and export of straight sword blades from Germany for the Nubians and that these are the type seen on kaskaras.
Actually the blades seen on kaskaras are occasionally seen on kattaras as far as I have seen and recalled, and it seems that a number of blades which are straight broadswords and with Amharic script and Lion of Judah intended for Abyssinia from German producers are found hilted in San'a.

The markings seen on this blade appear to be native applications of markings known on blades from the Kirschbaum group of manufacturers in Solingen, many of which amalgamated in the 19th century...the crescent moon and grouping of stars usually appeared with 6 stars, and sometimes with three and three crescents (Bezdek, p.152)and this may be interpretative version. German blades into the Condominium in Egypt after Omdurman and British occupation often entered Red Sea trade into Aden as well, and probably from there into Yemen into the 20th c.
These kinds of hilts are relatively common but usually have the shorter blades as noted.

The use of copied markings long established in Europe, particularly Solingen, is quite common on native blades in Sudan and Egypt. Typically these were seemingly chosen for talismanic value, perceived from the attention given to the original quality implication in trading the blades. While use of the running wolf had waned in Europe after the 18th century, it had found new life in Caucasian blades well known in Arabia from Ottoman presence, and was also known in the Sudan presumably from related trade networks of theRed Sea.

Best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams !

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks Ibrahim, Allah yebarek feek.

The blade is not like the Kattaras I've seen, its rigid and thick at the ricasso. the blade is very sharp at the tip. The only similarity to Kattara blades is the spatula shaped tip?

Salaams A.alnakkas, Nice sword it is indeed ! I suspect the tip is reworked to round it off in more or less spatulate form but I reckon it was pointed originally. What do you think?
This in no detracts from the sword and the blade is very thick perhaps 3 times or 4 times thicker at the riccasso than the Omani style Kattara which I am about to try to show are not a European blades but made in Ras Al Khaimah (The Head of the Tents) I believe the rounded cross section or as I call them wing shaped much less flexible blade form is a Saudia variant quite different in feel and handling to the flat cross sectioned very, very flexible Omani Kattara which easily bends through 90 degrees and springs back to shape immediately. :shrug:
Regards Ibrahiim.
(I am in China this week)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Sorry Ibrahim, the evidence is overwhelmingly in support of the use of trade blades on the longer, 18-19th century kattaras. If you go all the way back to the very first post in this thread you will see a kattara blade with a variety of markings - a termometer, eyelashes and crosses. All of those are quite common and can be traced back to well known earlier European examples.

Per Elgood, many of these blades were exported to Alexandria and Cairo, from where they were distributed throughout Arabia. If the Omanis were able to adopt the curved blade (most likely from Caucasian shashkas), then I do not see why they would not adopt the longer broadsword blade a century or so earlier, especially in light of the fact that German and Hungarian blades were very popular throughout the rest of the Arab Peninsula.

Personally, I think you put way too much stock in the cultural and religious barriers to the adoption of weapon forms, both in the case of the Omanis and the Portuguese. The hard evidence in the blades supports the theory that weapon forms diffused through trade, whereas your observations are so far entirely based on conjecture.

Regards,
Teodor
Salaams Teodor. Please understand that I only seek the facts whether they turn out as based upon a firm religious construction such as the Funun, or some other solid factual historical reference must be viewed in that light; Just the Facts.
I have discovered a possible and very strong likely source of weapons possibly stretching back down the ages centred on Ras Al Khaimah. Could it be that the Shihuh sword makers emigrated from Persia with this sword making expertise and produced in possibly the 8th C the old Omani Kattara with turned down quillons etc... Geographically it is a fit. It was all one country then. The camel train line links RAK with Nizwa.
Is it possible they continued to turn out swords and are solely responsible for the new Kattara which superceded the old Omani sword in the 17th /18th C.? Not withstanding some few hybrid or similar blades so tiny in number as to be perhaps not relevant to the real origin...RAK.
However what transpires is an eye opener; RAK makes Omani swords today. They use a variety of maker stamps some original, some copied. They use Lion, Crown, Star and Islamic verse God is Great etc and I have the pictures and have met the swordmakers. It should not be a surprise to learn that father to son sword making has gone on uninterupted there for generations and given the opportunity I will follow the line as far back as possible ~ People may be surprised by the outcome but I have a feeling it will shock some...after all I am about to attempt to blow the theory specifically regarding Omani Kattara European trade blades, out of the water.(Omani Kattara straight blades made in RAK not imported !)

You will see a photo run of RAK blade stamps shortly :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

.....so what about these two? The kattara here has what you describe as a wing shaped cross section, ..............and what about the mark also on a kattara but not the one shown full length.?


Salaams,
Your point is respected in view of the cross section of the blade shown is wing shaped. For it to be Omani Kattara it needs to be tested at 90 degrees bend and released. It may be a hybrid. I have seen Saudi swords with this shaped blade. Could it be similar to the A Alnakkas blade? The second sword shown carries RAK Marks. I will continue on that sword at your next photo.

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Now we are getting back to some sort of sensibility at last. Thanks Jim, TVV, and Lofty. Of course there was wide spread use of trade blades throughout the colonial territories, including Oman. I will now show the full blade with the mark, which by the way came from Ibrahiim himself, and was described by him as a curved Kattara. So that rather blows the theory that the Omanis did not use trade blades, but made their own.


Salaams,
I am referring to one specific sword style "The straight 17thC Omani Kattara" which I will attempt to show is home grown not imported though hybrids will exist; infact I have even seen Wootz bladed Omani Kattara on the forum.. There are bound to be a few one- offs but I am concerned with the Omani Kattara proper which I believe originates in RAK. RAS AL KHAIMAH.
The weapon you display is a Sayf. It appears to be a European imported trade blade. It carries the blade marks now known to be used in RAK amongst many others such as the Crown Lion Stars and God Is Great insignia. This is an Omani Sayf made or constructed in RAK.

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I was lucky enough to win this kattara on eBay about a month ago and it has finally arrived, which enables me to share pictures.
Scabbard and hilt are in poor shape, but at least they retain most of the original fittings and leather. As you can see the fittings are quite simple - no silver, nothing fancy.
Same can be said for the blade - it looks like a 19th century trade blade.
There are plenty of markings, identical on both sides - at the base of the blade there are gurda markings, with something in the middle - does anyone know what it is or what it attempts to represent? At the end of the fullers there is also a small cross. All the markings seem to have been added to the blade locally.
Do you think I am correct about this being a trade blade imported fro, Europe, or would you say this is a local blade?

I am very happy to have added this to my other kattara with a curved blade (most likely an imported shashka blade), and I appreciate everyone's comments.

Regards,
Teodor

Salaams, In reviewing your excellent post #1 I note that the hogs back marks as you indicate are local add ons. They appear done with a chissel and mallet rather than a stamp. Although I agree these are both Omani weapons a Kattara and a curved Sayf I only agree that perhaps the sayf is a European Blade. The straight is perhaps not. I cannot deduce if the straight is a hybrid or in line with what I am trying to prove ... an Omani (RAK) made blade.
I also recently discovered curved RAK Sayfs made for Oman !
Regards Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams,
It has recently been discovered that Ras Al Khaimah(RAK) swords are a huge influence in Omani Kattara and may have been for generations. They have expertly copied several blade marks shown below and others e.g. #88. Now identified an Omani Sayf made in RAK.

As a side note other RAK industries use a Crown Mark such as the RAK Ceramics Co. There is a thought that Ras Al Khaimah which means "Head of The Tents" uses the illustration of a crown to reflect that stylised image...of tent tops.

Photos; Omani Swords. (Number 4 is a Sayf the rest Kattara) #88 is a Sayf.
1. UAE emblem with "God is Great" stamp to the right.
2. Lion + Sword, moon and star to left. Note "God is Great" scribed in the stamp under the belly of the Lion.
3. Lion... thin strike (on three Swords)
4. Crown Taj Mark on a Sayf.
5. Crown Taj Mark. Probable double strike.
6. Odd Crown reminicent of the Rolex stamp also the stamp of Berretta a European Gun Maker.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[TVV]

Ibrahim, even if we assume that unlike the rest of the area around it, from the Sudan through the rest of Arabia to India, which all imported and used European manufactured blades, Oman somehow remained an isolated oasis of local bladesmithing, I still have a major problem. We can agree that many of the markings were applied locally, but why would the RAK need to replicate European makers marks, unless those marks had become popular in Oman and perceived as a proof of quality? And how could Germand and Genoese makers marks become popular, unless such blades had been imported in huge quanitites?

That being said, I admire your quest for finding out more about the Omani kattara. If you have access to local archives from the 19th century, it would be interesting to dig for some info on what was being imported in Muscat during that time, and potentially even some info on the cost of European blank blades as opposed to what the RAK was charging for its production, as I have a strong suspicion that at one point it must have been very difficult for local smiths to compete with the European mass produced import in price (assuming similar quality of the production).

Regards,
Teodor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahim, even if we assume that unlike the rest of the area around it, from the Sudan through the rest of Arabia to India, which all imported and used European manufactured blades, Oman somehow remained an isolated oasis of local bladesmithing, I still have a major problem. We can agree that many of the markings were applied locally, but why would the RAK need to replicate European makers marks, unless those marks had become popular in Oman and perceived as a proof of quality? And how could Germand and Genoese makers marks become popular, unless such blades had been imported in huge quanitites?

That being said, I admire your quest for finding out more about the Omani kattara. If you have access to local archives from the 19th century, it would be interesting to dig for some info on what was being imported in Muscat during that time, and potentially even some info on the cost of European blank blades as opposed to what the RAK was charging for its production, as I have a strong suspicion that at one point it must have been very difficult for local smiths to compete with the European mass produced import in price (assuming similar quality of the production).

Regards,
Teodor

Salaams Teodor, Your questions are good and really make me think. ..First and foremost I am only considering Omani straight bladed (though I have curved Sayf blades that have clearly come through RAK workshops) Kattara from the so called new 17th C design which we are led to believe are European Trade Blades but which I suspect are home grown i.e. From Ras al Khaimah.

Blade Marks. You will see my last post with some RAK blade marks ; The Lion is Arabian and even has the arabic inscription on the underbelly. The "God is Great" stamp is clearly from here...The Taj Crown is India inspired from Queen Victoria. There is an odd Crown (Picture 6) but I believe that is simply an artist impression to illustrate the Ras al Khaimah (head of the tents idea). Moon and stars~ Arabic insignia. So, actually, so far no clear European Marks.

In addition I should point out that I have seen many Omani swords; Sayf and Kattara with no markings at all.

Perhaps somehow a shipper tied to the Nizwa inner circle fetched a shipload (Dhows in those days could handle 500 tons) of swords from somewhere and had the complete idea of blade replacement of an iconic religious sword dating to the beginning of Ibathi Islam? done overnight in one fell swoop in an atmosphere where coastal Oman was at loggerheads with the Interior ? In those days ?

I have just read a very difficult complex book "The French and The English in the Indian Ocean by Dr Sheikh Sultan Bin Qassimi from circa 16th to 19thC. It is impossible to imagine trade flowing through Muscat to Nizwa from any of these nations as neither could, until the early 20th C, persuade Oman to even accept an Envoy in Muscat.

The transition from short battle sword to long flexible dancing sword must have originated in Nizwa; The heart of Ibathi Islam. I suggest that far from accepting 500 tons of swords in one hit (or several) that swords in the new form with blade tang and pommel drifted slowly into Nizwa and became fashionable and then sought after so that over several generations it became the sword of choice superceding eventually the short weapon retaining its name Kattara and absorbing the Terrs Shield as a fighting system. The transition could have taken 100 years.

Perhaps that is why there are many different Omani Kattara swords; some with one fuller, some with three, different stamps, many with no stamps, some with a hole in the pommel some not, many differently pommeled...big and small, long handled and medium long, blades not equally measured.. all pointing to a random cottage industry drip feed system rather than a massive industrial cargo load from Europe.

This drip feed of blades, I argue, came from Ras al Khaimah. It was on the Camel trade route from Nizwa via Buraimi up the waterhole line to the Gulf and Ras al Khaimah. There, I believe, are The Swordmakers of Oman; The Shihuh originally from Persia but now straddling the Oman UAE borders who it can be argued, have made Omani Swords for generations and who still do so today.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
P.S. As yet none of my team have been able to crack any of the museum archives but we are trying. If I discover a document outlining sword deliveries into Oman I will of course post the details to forum...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The use of European trade blades ranged from al-Sham to Yemen. Denial of it is refuted by material evidence and "natural" evidence (lack of steel manufacturers ment expensive local swords. Buying european blades was the cheapest option)

Followers of Imam Abdulwahab for example didnt have any problem using Lion stamped blades or bu-askiri (clauberg) stamped blades. I highly doubt they had the luxury to have a problem :-)

Salaams, I agree that European trade blades are all over the peninsular..and Africa, The Red Sea etc In the form of Sayf styles..and straight swords in Africa especially Ethiopia etc etc. ~ Where I disagree is on the straight Omani Kattara, long, flexible weapons which I have recently identified as from Ras al Khaimah. The Shihuh have been in blade making for generations though I thought they were only knife makers.

Most, indeed all, of the RAK Blade marks are in fact Arabian or derived from close by(Crown from Victorian India). Stars and Moon are Arabian, Lion is Arabian and has "God is Great" on the underbelly. I would appreciate you having a look at that lion (at #98 photo 2.) as I thought I was imagining the wording in the Lions belly !
Your input is much appreciated.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Can we simplify it?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to suggest, that the Old Kattara is just a variant of the pre-islamic straight-bladed Arab sword?

Arab invasion of Persia put them in contact with equally straight-bladed Iranian swords, so nothing changed at the beginning.

From conquered Persia they attempted to invade Europe from the East, but encountered Khazars, who were armed with true sabers. And that's when the Arabs switched to the curved blade. Persians might have taken it from them, or from the Turkic or Mongolian invaders.

The straight blade coexisted for a while, finding its way to Mamluks, Berbers and finally to Spain ( jineta). Subsequently, the most primitive tribes, Sudanese and Tuaregs, adopted it and preserved the form up to the contemporary tourist traps.
No need to invoke the imported blades for the early straight Arab blades. They had them from the beginning. The Portugese might have been surprised to find that their rapiers were identical to the Omani kattaras. Later on, everybody imported blades from everywhere, just like today upper-class americans import italian shoes, german cars and french perfume, while they import Mac Donalds and blue jeans.

Salaams Ariel, Needless to say that by typing blue jeans, french perfume or Mac Donalds into the forum search your letter will be forever more traceable ! :p

I suppose what you are getting at is a "so what question"..? I think ours is a very viable research thread because "The Forum" is thus engaged in finding the truth about a system so long shrouded in mystery.

We may at last be able to pinpoint sword data on, an as yet, never identified manufacturing centre. It could be that the myth of European Trade Blades (concerning specifically the New Omani Kattara circa 17thC) can be identified. We may even have spotted the makers of the original Omani Battle Sword of the 8th Century which you may be getting at in your first paragraph since clearly it is influenced by the Abbassid weapon.

Of course there is always the other possibility that we are wrong but we have to give it a full airing no?

Notice that I use the term "The Forum" since it is a combined effort to discover the facts. Any positive input is gladly received since it may lead to a result. You will recall we traced the Old Omani Battle Sword to 751 AD (a date accepted in this Forum) using archive data from Traditional Omani music, poetry, and dance !

Now lets get after the proper information on the weapon(the new Omani Kattara) which superceded that sword "apparently" in about the 17th C. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[ariel]

No doubt I am fully supportive of your effort and applaud it.

My point was different, and likely I did not express it clearly enough:

Are we really sure that Omani and ( in general) early pre-islamic Arab swords owe their existence to Iran? Arabs had their own weapons and at that time virtually all swords everywhere ( with the exception of Asian nomads and ancient India) were straight-bladed. No need to borrow from the Sassanian/ Achemenian ( not Abbasids: those belong to 16-17 century) examples. And, of course, 7-8 century Omani swords did not use European trade blades. Later on, for sure, just like anybody else. We are in complete agreement here.
With best wishes.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

No doubt I am fully supportive of your effort and applaud it.

My point was different, and likely I did not express it clearly enough:

Are we really sure that Omani and ( in general) early pre-islamic Arab swords owe their existence to Iran? Arabs had their own weapons and at that time virtually all swords everywhere ( with the exception of Asian nomads and ancient India) were straight-bladed. No need to borrow from the Sassanian/ Achemenian ( not Abbasids: those belong to 16-17 century) examples. And, of course, 7-8 century Omani swords did not use European trade blades. Later on, for sure, just like anybody else. We are in complete agreement here.
With best wishes.


Salaams Ariel, No. Pre Islamic Blades are not involved in the discussion. There are some Arab weapons that do owe their origins to Persia for example Shamshir, Mussandam Axes, and possibly others however I dont have evidence of a link to either of the Kattara; Old or New. The old is attached in origin to the Abbassid; see my letter on this thread. ( The Abbassid 8th/9th century troops were garrissoned here in Buraimi and Omanis were at war with them and used the Short Omani Battle Sword ... The Old Kattara, against them.)
The New is under discussion now. The New flexible long dancing Kattara; a supposedly 17th C weapon and supposedly a European Trade Blade. Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

.....so what about these two? The kattara here has what you describe as a wing shaped cross section, ..............and what about the mark also on a kattara but not the one shown full length.?

Salaams,
The straight Kattara style sword is possibly not Omani bladed since its blade is of a thick wing shaped cross section. Omani blades are flat in cross section thus allowing for great flexibility. The hilt, however, is in the Omani Kattara or the long Sayf style hilt style (both have the same hilt).

See other wing shaped straight blades on Michael Blalocks Arabian Swords#1. Illustrated in the Yemeni Military Museum and in the same post another thick wing blade from Riyadh souk. These could eminate from a Mamluke or a Saudia style. On the other hand it may be a one off. Bending the blade easily (whereafter the blade immediately springs back to shape) through 90 degrees would indicate an Omani Kattara. A stiff difficult to flex blade will indicate "Not Omani Kattara." However that is not to say it is not a Hybrid.

I have dealt with the marks on the other sword which is a Sayf(local terminology) that I believe is a RAK produced Omani weapon. The marks appear as star shapes or asterix and a peculiar tower shape with a moon inverted half way up the column. The Rak makers use this mark amongst many others and since it contains a moon shape is likely to be Islamic linked. (though it may even be a representation of a set of scales) At any rate both Moon and Stars are Islamic marks...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Regards,
Ibrahiim.

[laEspadaAncha]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

For my own (and possibly others') clarity, when you discuss "wing-shaped" swords or blades, are you speaking of a blade with a lenticular cross section, i.e., a double-edged, "flattened" oval?

Also, can you please elucidate in detail the blade profile of the Omani swords you believe to be of indigenous form and which you describe as being "flat" by comparison (with regards to presence of lack of distal taper, thickness, etc.)?

As a "math guy," I guess I am surprised I don't see more quantitative analysis of measurable parameters in the study of arms & armor, such as blade length, width, profile, as well as easily measures yes/no parameters (e.g., taper, distal taper, etc.). In fact, the only time I can recall seeing tables of data was in regards to a New Zealand study of Polynesian (or maybe pan-Oceanic) war clubs (I'm guessing there are probably more out there, but just not in my nascent library). It's the least subjective of expression of form, and I would think a proper statistical analysis of the respective blade forms would be the least interpretive way to test - or support - your theory. :)

Cheers,

Chris

[kahnjar1]

Salaams,
The straight Kattara style sword is possibly not Omani bladed since its blade is of a thick wing shaped cross section. Omani blades are flat in cross section thus allowing for great flexibility. The hilt, however, is in the Omani Kattara or the long Sayf style hilt style (both have the same hilt).

See other wing shaped straight blades on Michael Blalocks Arabian Swords#1. Illustrated in the Yemeni Military Museum and in the same post another thick wing blade from Riyadh souk. These could eminate from a Mamluke or a Saudia style. On the other hand it may be a one off. Bending the blade easily (whereafter the blade immediately springs back to shape) through 90 degrees would indicate an Omani Kattara. A stiff difficult to flex blade will indicate "Not Omani Kattara." However that is not to say it is not a Hybrid.

I have dealt with the marks on the other sword which is a Sayf(local terminology) that I believe is a RAK produced Omani weapon. The marks appear as star shapes or asterix and a peculiar tower shape with a moon inverted half way up the column. The Rak makers use this mark amongst many others and since it contains a moon shape is likely to be Islamic linked. (though it may even be a representation of a set of scales) At any rate both Moon and Stars are Islamic marks...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Regards,
Ibrahiim.
OK this raises the question of the swords you advertise as Omani. Assuming your description is correct, then these ALL would have flexible blades??

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

For my own (and possibly others') clarity, when you discuss "wing-shaped" swords or blades, are you speaking of a blade with a lenticular cross section, i.e., a double-edged, "flattened" oval?

Also, can you please elucidate in detail the blade profile of the Omani swords you believe to be of indigenous form and which you describe as being "flat" by comparison (with regards to presence of lack of distal taper, thickness, etc.)?

As a "math guy," I guess I am surprised I don't see more quantitative analysis of measurable parameters in the study of arms & armor, such as blade length, width, profile, as well as easily measures yes/no parameters (e.g., taper, distal taper, etc.). In fact, the only time I can recall seeing tables of data was in regards to a New Zealand study of Polynesian (or maybe pan-Oceanic) war clubs (I'm guessing there are probably more out there, but just not in my nascent library). It's the least subjective of expression of form, and I would think a proper statistical analysis of the respective blade forms would be the least interpretive way to test - or support - your theory. :)

Cheers,

Chris

Salaams Chris,

Wrapped inside your well placed call for mathematical analysis is an assumption that we are able to pinpoint origin of species ...however we cannot. I would dearly love to stick the calipers on an original new so called 17th C (New Omani Kattara). In itself this is also not going to help if there is no standard length or weight because of the cottage industry style of production I think we are looking at. Every Omani Kattara I see and there are hundreds already viewed are all different in some small way. What is the same, or similar, is the flexibility. Stiff blades do not qualify. How do I put that into mathematical terms ? The bend is through about 90 degrees and the blade when subjected to this test springs immediately back to shape. Any blade that does not bend and return to shape after this simple test is not an Oman (New) Kattara.

The peculiar point being that its predecessor, with the same name, was a short weapon capable of slash cut and stab is a stiff unflexible blade originating in the 8th C. and is superceded by the new blade form in the 17th C (Supposedly)

What is under examination is ~ Is this new sword a European Trade Blade? If not what are its origins ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[laEspadaAncha]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The measurements themselves, e.g., length, width, cross section, et al, would serve as the mathematical terms for such a study. A proper statistical analysis of the distribution of these measurements might allow for someone to cross-correlate the measurements with a likely place of origin/production, and in turn, evaluate the probable origin of a specific example by comparing it to this distribution. While you may not be able to pinpoint the origin of an entire type or form, theoretically you might be able to formulate a theory of origin of a respective type by comparing the measurements of individual examples with a known provenance/origin to the (statistical) distribution of the group... :shrug:

Cheers,

Chris

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

OK this raises the question of the swords you advertise as Omani. Assuming your description is correct, then these ALL would have flexible blades??


Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum. However, I would have thought that information being freshly researched would be gratefully received so that we are not in the dark regarding a swords provenance. :shrug:

In trying to assess a blade as Omani to date there have been no mistakes in the final analysis. I will agree that getting there is a bumpy ride but well worth the effort. So far this thread has cracked the origin of the Old Omani Kattara with a forum accepted date of 751 AD. I believe we have a duty to examine thoroughly the new version, no?

Geographical influence ~(The UAE, RAK and the entire region up almost as far as Bahrain and including Gwadur in Baluchistan and Zanzibar were Omani for many centuries..The Shihuh tribe today, in fact, straddle Oman and the UAE. A Kattara made in a Shehe workshop is therefor Omani 100% by tradition . I think you misunderstand the origin of species not only of the swords but of the tribes also... They all dance the Funun whether in the UAE or Oman because not so long ago this was all one region.

~ Granted it was a series of splintered Fiefdoms but socially it was very much one entity. Having said that there is a rich diversity. Religiously take for example RAK.. Ibathi , Hamaffi, Shaffaii, Maliki, Hamberli; all with their own style and history all different interpretations but all the same...Islamic. They all do the Funoon sword dance and fighting mimicry with the (New) Kattara and Terrs ~

Omans History. What many may not understand is what swords were used in Oman after they ousted the Abbassids 1200 years ago? Essentially after the Abbasids left, Oman was peaceful and prosperous and sea trade flourished exponentially. This period of peace lasted nearly 400 years during which time the Old Omani Battle Sword spread all over Oman ~ Coast, Mountains and Interior.

What is important to realise is that in the 16th to 18th Centuries Oman did not have a warring Interior versus Coastal Belt using different swords e.g. . Coastal Oman Sayf curved weapons versus Interior straight Kattara.. when in fact they used the same swords; mainly Old Kattara though doubtless there were others ..Sayfs Shamshir etc. So the advent of a new blade would change the entire country sword stock though I argue not instantly but over time and perhaps 100 years or more. Change through fashionable choice via a cottage industry output and then acceptance into the Funoon; rather than huge industrial production and direct influx of Trade Blades out of Europe. I chose the word "direct" carefully since no evidence is available showing the blade moving gradually through Africa. Equally no evidence exists of a sudden influx of Trade Blades from Europe... not a shread..Its all here say!

This weapon was an Icon of Heraldic proportions.

Consider the socio-religio- political implications of a so called new sword from Europe ??

We are being fed (by association) without proof that somehow a European Trade Blade superceded this Iconic weapon, taking not only its name but the Terrrs Shield into the bargain..and with a woft of the hand "in the 17th C." ? We have seen this quality of guesswork before with spurious wild assessments of the Old Kattara some said was 16th C and some said was 10th. I know a museum that have one dated 19thC!

It seems linked, by association, to the flood of European Trade Blades into Africa. The instantaneous arrival and sudden acceptance of a European sword into Oman being apparently automatic, absolute and unquestioned ... until now.

Without proof, no research, heresay and with mere association I find that difficult to believe thus I have earmarked a closer to home explanation illustrating known blade stamps from the Ras al Khaimah where Omani (new) Kattara are produced there to this day. They already have a reputation of knife/blade making/ leather scabbard and hilt making and my investigations may lead to more discoveries and perhaps the origin of the old Kattara manufacture. I do not however rule out other manufacturing centres and it would not surprise me to find New Kattara from Muscat, Sohar, Zanzibar, Madagascar or Nizwa. (There is a new factory in Salalah making tourist new kattara by Pakistani craftsmen but that is recent and unrelated to this research.)

I believe that all Omani (New) Kattara must have flexible blades. You cannot dance or perform the (new) Funun with a sword which doesn't flex. Fight training with a non flexible heavier blade and using the Terrs is lop sided and awkward. Should we discover, however, that there is a branch of Omani New Kattara that occur with stiff blades that do/do not use the Terrs Shield I would be the first to report on it.

The straight Kattara in your photo has a Saudia or Yemeni blade and could be a one off, or a hybrid.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Photos attached show;
Long Flexible Spatulate Tipped (New) Kattara. and stamps identified as Ras Al Khaimah workshops stamps... stars (Nijimaat) and a new style of "God is Great" insignia. The (New) Kattara was made with pommel, tang and blade as an "all in one" product.

The long flexible "style" Omani (New) Kattara Circa 17th Century and Claimed to be a European Trade Blade alongside the shorter Old Omani Kattara with distinctive turned down quillons and Islamic hilt..The Old Omani Kattara. Circa 751 A.D.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The measurements themselves, e.g., length, width, cross section, et al, would serve as the mathematical terms for such a study. A proper statistical analysis of the distribution of these measurements might allow for someone to cross-correlate the measurements with a likely place of origin/production, and in turn, evaluate the probable origin of a specific example by comparing it to this distribution. While you may not be able to pinpoint the origin of an entire type or form, theoretically you might be able to formulate a theory of origin of a respective type by comparing the measurements of individual examples with a known provenance/origin to the (statistical) distribution of the group... :shrug:

Cheers,

Chris

Salaams Chris, That all sounds great in theory, however, in practise all but impossible. To date I have not seen two blades that are the same except for 3 brand new items from a workshop I now know well. Whilst that statement goes someway to disproving the European (industrial) Trade Blade connection because Industrial Trade Blades of one type are all the same technically and identical. I have no idea how to apply it. As you may appreciate Im working in a vacuum largely in the dark and without a safety net !

Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum.

OK I see your point, so I will rephrase. Of the many "new" Omani swords you see, what % of these are true Omani, with flexible blade?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum.

OK I see your point, so I will rephrase. Of the many "new" Omani swords you see, what % of these are true Omani, with flexible blade?


Salaams,
Not counting the tourist items I would say all Omani new style (that is of the "supposed" European Trade Blade 17th C design) straight Kattara are fully flexible and true Omani by definition.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

Salaams~ I see that the auction is finished ~ So I will tell you exactly what that is.

Omani 751 AD Short Kattara Battlesword. Needless to say it is not Moorish.. but Omani. It is not 17th C design but 8thC. This thread deals with exactly this weapon. It is the early Omani Kattara. Someone has won a nice early Omani Kattara. The Hilt looks original. The blade may need a second look as some of the later blades were flatter and not as stiff... I would be looking for dot or dots and the famous wing shaped blade cross section(though dots are not vital). One of the quillons has the end missing... not a problem..Battle Damage ?..On these swords the hilt may be tubular or more originally eight sided. There ought to be three holes in the hilt The bottom two for holding the hilt together and the top one, just below the pommel, for a wrist strap.

The Omani Short Battle Sword (Kattara) 8thC. Pre-cursor to the long flexible (dancing) Omani Kattara of 17thC? which is supposedly said to be a European Trade Blade? but argued by me as a Local Omani Production
[ NOW UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT]
Nice Sword !!!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is some shock and awe !!!

Salaams,

The Debate on dating The (New) (FLEXIBLE) Omani Kattara and its origins. Some important dates etc ;

1. The Portuguese did not leave Muscat until they were forced out in 1650. It is impossible, therefor, for bladed weapons to have entered Muscat in the first half i.e. 1600 to 1650.

2. In Europe iron was extremely expensive until a method of smelting was discovered using coke viz;

The iron industry benefited also from other early inventions of the 18th century. Iron was scarce and costly, and production was falling off because England's forests could not supply enough charcoal for smelting the ore. Ironmasters had long been experimenting with coal as a fuel for smelting. Finally the Darby family, after three generations of effort, succeeded with coal that had been transformed into coke. This created a new demand for coal and laid the foundation for the British coal industry.

3. It is unlikely that mass produced blades could have been attempted before 1780 because viz Following the development above ~ The next great steps were taken in the 1780s, when Henry Cort developed the processes of puddling and rolling. Puddling produced nearly pure malleable iron. Hand in hand with the adoption of the new inventions went the rapid development of the factory system of manufacture.

Therefor if the arguement for European Industrial Trade Blades 17th C collapses.

This is on going "hot" research... I also have to report that sword production in Ras Al Khaimah is only recent having interviewed the elders... Perhaps 40 or 50 years only. They are develish clever.. copiers.. though they do make good swords! and they are Omani. They copy all sorts of stamps... but are now written off as "original" manufacturers ~

The new source of original (New) Omani Kattara is Salalah ! and that brings with it the likely involvement of The Yemen and is well placed on the Camel Train framework for supply and distribution.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Michael Blalock]

Thats a good deal you got there Ariel.

[Jim McDougall]

I wanted to just comment on the overall status thus far as I understand, and by my perceptions of the development of these notably different kattara forms.

It does seem possible that the 'old' form with downturned quillons etc. established now as indiginous to the interior Oman, is evolved from early Abbasid swords of c.8th c. however without extant and provenanced examples we cannot be certain of the exact form chronologically. We can presume the form in accord with contemporary types however and estimate the approximate style and its traditional form being maintained.

The more familiar form of Omani kattara with cylindrical hilt and straight, double edged blade is it seems the focus of the discussion and whether it evolved around the arrival of European trade blades in the 17th century.

Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia", p.18) states that the early form of Omani sword is frequently found with German blades of the 17th century suggesting that as a terminus a quo, however clearly that assumption seems in question at this point. It does show that German blades were present in this time apparantly in Oman. On p.16 referring to James Fraser at Ormuz in 1821 it is noted that the Omani garrison, resembling 'Arabs of Muscat' had broadswords and target, with many made at Yemen while greater part were from ports in the Meditteranean, many with Solingen and Andrea Ferara blades.
p.20, he notes that in Hormuz, the Arabs of Muscat shared with them very considerable trade with India where many Arabs had settled.
There were trade connections between Mysore and Tipu Sultan to Muscat from 1786 to his death in 1799 and it is noted that "...since its emergence from 16th century onwards Muscat had established commercial contacts indirectly with Western Europe via India". ("Trade and Empire in Muscat and Zanzibar: Roots of British Domination", Mohammed Reda Bhader, 1992, p.35).

It does seem that most emphasis on the presence of European blades recorded is from mid to latter 18th century into the early 19th in Arabia by Europeans, so it would be difficult to presume that the familiar guardless kattara had appeared in the 17th century. It does seem that the early form did exist with the German trade blades of the 17th century, however whether simply old blades, mounted later or Omani copies is unclear.

While there seems to be sufficient evidence for the import of European blades through India, Egypt and other ports on Muscat maritime trade routes, as well as via caravans in the interior through Jidda and other routes....it seems unlikely that the 'new' kattara evolved 'around' these blades. It does seem clear as noted in various reading in Elgood that there were indeed skilled and numerous sword makers in Arabia, certainly including regions being discussed. It seems that unfortunate observations by Richard Burton in the 19th c. may be the source for the impression that few or no swords were produced in Arabia.

I believe that much as in North Africa, more volume in imported material including blades resulted in the perception that most blades were imported, while of course a good number may have been produced locally. What I do find puzzling is why these well established makers in Oman or Muscat would imitate the European markings if notably proud of thier own wares. Much of the increase in volume of German blades to these colonial regions at the end of the 18th century was due to the upset of local makers for example in England of the German imports. In many cases the Solingen makers began to produce more for other markets to offset this deterence in their markets.
It is believed they did produce various blade types for varied clientele and markets, many of broadsword type to the Sahara and Sudan.

It seems that the 'old' or battle sword is a form which may exist 'in form' in degree traditionally from early types atavistically related to the Abbasid swords, and which may have used Persian and European blades in addition to Omani produced examples. These have remained in use primarily in the Nizwa regions and Omans interior and concurrent with the Muscat type guardless swords. I also wonder how much contact with the Ibadis in North Africa might have contributed to arrival of German blades in Oman.

The highly flexible blades of the Muscat or 'new' kattara, while exact period of development of the hilt style is unclear, are notably important in the Funun, or sword dance. This dynamic is noted by Fraser in 1821 (Elgood, p.16) where he notes the blades are made to 'sing' by jerk of the wrist while being held upright...apparantly before battle. This characteristic of blades is well known into medieval times and in India and other instances, but the details of ceremony related in other places is not clear here. It does seem that the dancing and ceremonial event is much related to martial skill and the use of the weapon in combat.

[A.alnakkas]

Here is some shock and awe !!!

Salaams,

The Debate on dating The (New) (FLEXIBLE) Omani Kattara and its origins. Some important dates etc ;

1. The Portuguese did not leave Muscat until they were forced out in 1850. It is impossible, therefor, for bladed weapons to have entered Muscat in the first half i.e. 1600 to 1650.

2. In Europe iron was extremely expensive until a method of smelting was discovered using coke viz;

The iron industry benefited also from other early inventions of the 18th century. Iron was scarce and costly, and production was falling off because England's forests could not supply enough charcoal for smelting the ore. Ironmasters had long been experimenting with coal as a fuel for smelting. Finally the Darby family, after three generations of effort, succeeded with coal that had been transformed into coke. This created a new demand for coal and laid the foundation for the British coal industry.

3. It is unlikely that mass produced blades could have been attempted before 1780 because viz Following the development above ~ The next great steps were taken in the 1780s, when Henry Cort developed the processes of puddling and rolling. Puddling produced nearly pure malleable iron. Hand in hand with the adoption of the new inventions went the rapid development of the factory system of manufacture.

Therefor if the arguement for European Industrial Trade Blades 17th C collapses.

This is on going "hot" research... I also have to report that sword production in Ras Al Khaimah is only recent having interviewed the elders... Perhaps 40 or 50 years only. They are develish clever.. copiers.. though they do make good swords! and they are Omani. They copy all sorts of stamps... but are now written off as "original" manufacturers ~

The new source of original (New) Omani Kattara is Salalah ! and that brings with it the likely involvement of The Yemen and is well placed on the Camel Train framework for supply and distribution.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salam Alaikum,

First, I do not think that the european industrial blade argument is dismantled in your answer. Your answer does not really answers the question actually.

It must be noted that the majority of european trade blades do not come from england, rather they come from Almajar (Hungary) or Germany. As far as I know, Germany imported steel from Sweden and there wasnt really any issue there. Your answer however, focuses on England which blade's are rare here (wilkinson blades being mostly sold to ethiopia but those are easy to tell apart from other blades)

What I find interesting in the Kattara is that it stayed landlocked in Oman and what is now the UAE... why was this form not adopted by other arabs? even though they were connected tribally (Bani Kaab tribe being the most obvious, as it exist in alBasra, Kuwait, AlAhwaz, Qatar and Oman/UAE) Why was the Badawi/syrian hilt style become dominant? keep in mind that there are straight blades with badawi hilt, they are called Garda.

Now to my opinion regarding your quest, I think its very good and respect worthy, but as an advice, when it comes to weapons and other important goods, forget about what might seem as religious barriers :-)

[Jim McDougall]

Salam Alaikum,

First, I do not think that the european industrial blade argument is dismantled in your answer. Your answer does not really answers the question actually.

It must be noted that the majority of european trade blades do not come from england, rather they come from Almajar (Hungary) or Germany. As far as I know, Germany imported steel from Sweden and there wasnt really any issue there. Your answer however, focuses on England which blade's are rare here (wilkinson blades being mostly sold to ethiopia but those are easy to tell apart from other blades)

What I find interesting in the Kattara is that it stayed landlocked in Oman and what is now the UAE... why was this form not adopted by other arabs? even though they were connected tribally (Bani Kaab tribe being the most obvious, as it exist in alBasra, Kuwait, AlAhwaz, Qatar and Oman/UAE) Why was the Badawi/syrian hilt style become dominant? keep in mind that there are straight blades with badawi hilt, they are called Garda.

Now to my opinion regarding your quest, I think its very good and respect worthy, but as an advice, when it comes to weapons and other important goods, forget about what might seem as religious barriers :-)


Actually we do need to focus on Germany which is where most of the trade blades were from. England has never really done much in exporting blades except for later in the 19th century to colonial regions. Solingen, on the Wupper River is strategically located for its ore. Sweden was noted for cheaper iron exported much later in the 19th century and unsure of why Germany would have brought that in.
It has never been entirely clear about Hungarian blades, and actually it seems many of these were actually from Solingen or Styria, though there were a few makers, certainly insufficient for export. It does seem that in Arabia the 'Magyar' blades were much favored, but via Syria . These were sabre blades, not broadswords as in most Omani kattara. The larger part of the curved sabre blades came in the 19th century with Caucasian and other European imports.

I think the kattara was far from landlocked as far as the new form. These are well known in Zanzibar as well as well into Africa;s trade networks. It is tempting to associate the cylindrical guard Manding sabres of Mali as well as thed Maasai seme' of Kenya, which may have some degree of influence via Muscat merchants. The 'old' form seems to have remained in place in Omans interior regions contemporary with the new forms on the coast.

The markings phenomenon to me seems very much in line with the blade makers in Sudan where 'Kasallawi' makers produced kaskaras from the 1960s to present. The copied markings are similar but usually distinguishable from old ones by the blade context.

The Wilkinson blades were indeed produced for Abyssinia in the latter 19th century and most notably 1930s. Germany also produced blades for this market. Many of these blades ended up in Yemen where they were remounted in San'a.

We are focused on commercial and trade aspects, nothing to do with religion, so lets keep it that way OK .

[A.alnakkas]

Actually we do need to focus on Germany which is where most of the trade blades were from. England has never really done much in exporting blades except for later in the 19th century to colonial regions. Solingen, on the Wupper River is strategically located for its ore. Sweden was noted for cheaper iron exported much later in the 19th century and unsure of why Germany would have brought that in.
It has never been entirely clear about Hungarian blades, and actually it seems many of these were actually from Solingen or Styria, though there were a few makers, certainly insufficient for export. It does seem that in Arabia the 'Magyar' blades were much favored, but via Syria . These were sabre blades, not broadswords as in most Omani kattara. The larger part of the curved sabre blades came in the 19th century with Caucasian and other European imports.

I think the kattara was far from landlocked as far as the new form. These are well known in Zanzibar as well as well into Africa;s trade networks. It is tempting to associate the cylindrical guard Manding sabres of Mali as well as thed Maasai seme' of Kenya, which may have some degree of influence via Muscat merchants. The 'old' form seems to have remained in place in Omans interior regions contemporary with the new forms on the coast.

The markings phenomenon to me seems very much in line with the blade makers in Sudan where 'Kasallawi' makers produced kaskaras from the 1960s to present. The copied markings are similar but usually distinguishable from old ones by the blade context.

The Wilkinson blades were indeed produced for Abyssinia in the latter 19th century and most notably 1930s. Germany also produced blades for this market. Many of these blades ended up in Yemen where they were remounted in San'a.

We are focused on commercial and trade aspects, nothing to do with religion, so lets keep it that way OK .

Hey Jim,

You are correct, the "Magyar" blades were mainly sabers. They can be told apart from other european blades due to their decoration.

I could have used a better description to why I considered the Kattara a landlocked type. What I ment is that while it did spread into Zanzibar (was Omani territory anyways) it did not spread in Arabia, which its people favoured the shamshir oriented Badawi style. Keep in mind that Omani's lived in as far as Kuwait for God knows how far in time but the sword style was never adopted. The Omani Khanjar though was adopted quickly as a sign of prestige :-)

I need to start hunting for heirloom pictures... For example, a friend of mine who's from Omani origin has a Khanjar of super quality, think its made of gold . it belonged to his late grandfather. Almost all families here have a heirloom here and there...

[ariel]

Thats a good deal you got there Ariel.


Thanks!
I got lucky, always wanted one of those, but they are usually very expensive:-)

[Jim McDougall]

Hey Jim,

You are correct, the "Magyar" blades were mainly sabers. They can be told apart from other european blades due to their decoration.

I could have used a better description to why I considered the Kattara a landlocked type. What I ment is that while it did spread into Zanzibar (was Omani territory anyways) it did not spread in Arabia, which its people favoured the shamshir oriented Badawi style. Keep in mind that Omani's lived in as far as Kuwait for God knows how far in time but the sword style was never adopted. The Omani Khanjar though was adopted quickly as a sign of prestige :-)

I need to start hunting for heirloom pictures... For example, a friend of mine who's from Omani origin has a Khanjar of super quality, think its made of gold . it belonged to his late grandfather. Almost all families here have a heirloom here and there...

I think now we're on the same page:) You're right, the broadsword type did not gain favor throughout the rest of the Peninsula, except that in the Hadhramaut and Yemen the straight blade sa'if, actually pallasche became quite well established. These were single edged backswords, often with false edge, but of course far from the doubled edged kattara.


The heirloom pictures would be great!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks!
I got lucky, always wanted one of those, but they are usually very expensive:-)

Salaams Ariel... So you are the rightful owner of the Old Omani Battle Sword...The Kattara . Style 751 AD ! Join the club! Now can you kindly please show a decent picture of the blade as I would like to analyse it... are there any marks on the sword? was there a scabbard? Well done ! Regards Ibrahiim :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I wanted to just comment on the overall status thus far as I understand, and by my perceptions of the development of these notably different kattara forms.

It does seem possible that the 'old' form with downturned quillons etc. established now as indiginous to the interior Oman, is evolved from early Abbasid swords of c.8th c. however without extant and provenanced examples we cannot be certain of the exact form chronologically. We can presume the form in accord with contemporary types however and estimate the approximate style and its traditional form being maintained.

The more familiar form of Omani kattara with cylindrical hilt and straight, double edged blade is it seems the focus of the discussion and whether it evolved around the arrival of European trade blades in the 17th century.

Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia", p.18) states that the early form of Omani sword is frequently found with German blades of the 17th century suggesting that as a terminus a quo, however clearly that assumption seems in question at this point. It does show that German blades were present in this time apparantly in Oman. On p.16 referring to James Fraser at Ormuz in 1821 it is noted that the Omani garrison, resembling 'Arabs of Muscat' had broadswords and target, with many made at Yemen while greater part were from ports in the Meditteranean, many with Solingen and Andrea Ferara blades.
p.20, he notes that in Hormuz, the Arabs of Muscat shared with them very considerable trade with India where many Arabs had settled.
There were trade connections between Mysore and Tipu Sultan to Muscat from 1786 to his death in 1799 and it is noted that "...since its emergence from 16th century onwards Muscat had established commercial contacts indirectly with Western Europe via India". ("Trade and Empire in Muscat and Zanzibar: Roots of British Domination", Mohammed Reda Bhader, 1992, p.35).

It does seem that most emphasis on the presence of European blades recorded is from mid to latter 18th century into the early 19th in Arabia by Europeans, so it would be difficult to presume that the familiar guardless kattara had appeared in the 17th century. It does seem that the early form did exist with the German trade blades of the 17th century, however whether simply old blades, mounted later or Omani copies is unclear.

While there seems to be sufficient evidence for the import of European blades through India, Egypt and other ports on Muscat maritime trade routes, as well as via caravans in the interior through Jidda and other routes....it seems unlikely that the 'new' kattara evolved 'around' these blades. It does seem clear as noted in various reading in Elgood that there were indeed skilled and numerous sword makers in Arabia, certainly including regions being discussed. It seems that unfortunate observations by Richard Burton in the 19th c. may be the source for the impression that few or no swords were produced in Arabia.

I believe that much as in North Africa, more volume in imported material including blades resulted in the perception that most blades were imported, while of course a good number may have been produced locally. What I do find puzzling is why these well established makers in Oman or Muscat would imitate the European markings if notably proud of thier own wares. Much of the increase in volume of German blades to these colonial regions at the end of the 18th century was due to the upset of local makers for example in England of the German imports. In many cases the Solingen makers began to produce more for other markets to offset this deterence in their markets.
It is believed they did produce various blade types for varied clientele and markets, many of broadsword type to the Sahara and Sudan.

It seems that the 'old' or battle sword is a form which may exist 'in form' in degree traditionally from early types atavistically related to the Abbasid swords, and which may have used Persian and European blades in addition to Omani produced examples. These have remained in use primarily in the Nizwa regions and Omans interior and concurrent with the Muscat type guardless swords. I also wonder how much contact with the Ibadis in North Africa might have contributed to arrival of German blades in Oman.

The highly flexible blades of the Muscat or 'new' kattara, while exact period of development of the hilt style is unclear, are notably important in the Funun, or sword dance. This dynamic is noted by Fraser in 1821 (Elgood, p.16) where he notes the blades are made to 'sing' by jerk of the wrist while being held upright...apparantly before battle. This characteristic of blades is well known into medieval times and in India and other instances, but the details of ceremony related in other places is not clear here. It does seem that the dancing and ceremonial event is much related to martial skill and the use of the weapon in combat.


Salaams Jim,

As expected your letter is, as always, full of excellent, well read research.

My first general observation is in your reference which I quote;

"These have remained in use primarily in the Nizwa regions and Omans interior and concurrent with the Muscat type guardless swords. I also wonder how much contact with the Ibadis in North Africa might have contributed to arrival of German blades in Oman"

The Short and long Kattara have one thing in common ~ They were and are all over Oman; Coast, Interior, mountains and desert. After 751 AD Oman was at peace with itself for nearly 400 years and the old Kattara sword went where the religion went. i.e. All over Oman. When eventually the new weapon superceded it, that too went countrywide spilling over into tribal regions on the periphery like the Gulf Coast Fiefdoms now The UAE etc and Omani possessions like Zanzibar/ parts of the East African Coast, the Gwadur region in Baluchistan and enclaves traded with and settled by Omanis in India.

When Oman was at war with itself Interior (capital Nizwa) versus Coast (Capital Muscat) the same weapons were used against each other though as yet the new kattara had not surfaced. There was a great war lasting 100 years (like the War Of The Roses) and a few other miniature outbreaks. I wanted to make the point in case it was imagined that Short Omani Battle Swords were only in the Interior (Nizwa armoury) and that the Coast used some other system..

The second point about North Africa Ibathi and sword transition... I have no idea. I suspect not, however, hopefully that may be proven/disproven in due course..

Regarding The Old Kattara.

My earlier letter tying the Abbasid and the Omani Short Battle sword and the date 751 AD commensurate with the weapon being an Iconic and heraldic insignia sword of Ibathi Islam... parallel in the same way as the "Sword of The Prophet" concept. The date being the start of Ibathiism and the appearance of its First Immam in Oman. (Julanda). (and proven through the Funoon, Razha etc) Another of my renditions lays out the 11 close similarities between the Abbasid and the Ibathi sword which we call variously The Old Kattara, The Old Omani Battle Sword. Turned down Quillons et al.

I have to admit that I have never seen anywhere in a Museum or in any collection or locally in the souks an early weapon of this style with a confirmed German or foreign blade. I have never seen its blade with any sort of European blade mark. I have a suspicion having seen a lot of these blades that there is an interloper ... a blade with less rigidity, not so thick, lighter... which may be the European blade which may have appeared late on this weapon.. Perhaps 17th C but I have yet to discover that as fact. Perhaps that is where the confusion about 17th C lies?

It is certainly on my agenda to investigate that problem.

Regarding the New Kattara.
I know of no mediaeval Indian or other spatulate tip, flexible bladed, long hilt weapon around the region that would have led to its adoption into Oman and covered by your quote viz;

"This dynamic is noted by Fraser in 1821 (Elgood, p.16) where he notes the blades are made to 'sing' by jerk of the wrist while being held upright...apparantly before battle. This characteristic of blades is well known into medieval times and in India and other instances, but the details of ceremony related in other places is not clear here". Unquote.

What is important however is the date 1821 which places the weapon firmly in Oman at that time. That is also the only vague reference to what is, in fact, The Funoon and reference to the singing blade is clearly the Razha celebratory technique. In so far as any investigation before or since, this Forum is the first to uncover the wealth of information revealed by its analysis.

Your note on the Hormuz is also an interesting quote;

"On p.16 referring to James Fraser at Ormuz in 1821 it is noted that the Omani garrison, resembling 'Arabs of Muscat' had broadswords and target, with many made at Yemen while greater part were from ports in the Meditteranean, many with Solingen and Andrea Ferara blades" .

Was he referring to the old or new swords? I assume the new ones which were used to sing...by buzzing the blades. Both have a broad blade per se and both use what he calls a target which I assume is the Terrs buckler shield. He refers to Yemen which we know was a general region, in fact, encompassing the horn of Africa where it can be seen on many old maps and sea charts actually marked as "The Yemen" ! It could also have included Salalah. It is an important quote and could date the New Kattara before, not after 1821. It could be an indicator of Salalah or South Arabian provenance, however I cannot understand the quote;

""while greater part were from ports in the Meditteranean, many with Solingen and Andrea Ferara blades" . Unquote.

I have never seen a Mediterranean or Solingen or Andrea Ferara New Omani Kattara. What do they look like ? What was the blade stamp? Is there a museum example?

It seems to me that blades from the 17th C European Trade Blade presumeably from the Industrial Revolution cannot have been responsible for Omans replacement sword stock because the dates of the European Industrial period are much later. Whilst 1821 is a lot later and more believable why would they accept foreign blades and with the requirement to fully update the Funoon etc? At least we need to look at possible cottage industry production locally and in the absence of proper evidence including blade stamps etc I think that is a worthy cause.

I have some loosely formatted ideas and heresay information regarding Salalah which will take time to check out. I know that the tribesmen there (Jebali) practically all carry the New Omani Kattara at National Day Celebrations and are fervent performers of The Sword Dance with thousands at a time taking part in rolling parade dance pasts for the Ruler.

Meanwhile we roll forward and hopefully a conclusion is close. Of course Nizwa is staring us in the face as a possible centre of production however I am well aware of that and have a few interesting leads in that regard.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salam Alaikum,

First, I do not think that the european industrial blade argument is dismantled in your answer. Your answer does not really answers the question actually.

It must be noted that the majority of european trade blades do not come from england, rather they come from Almajar (Hungary) or Germany. As far as I know, Germany imported steel from Sweden and there wasnt really any issue there. Your answer however, focuses on England which blade's are rare here (wilkinson blades being mostly sold to ethiopia but those are easy to tell apart from other blades)

What I find interesting in the Kattara is that it stayed landlocked in Oman and what is now the UAE... why was this form not adopted by other arabs? even though they were connected tribally (Bani Kaab tribe being the most obvious, as it exist in alBasra, Kuwait, AlAhwaz, Qatar and Oman/UAE) Why was the Badawi/syrian hilt style become dominant? keep in mind that there are straight blades with badawi hilt, they are called Garda.

Now to my opinion regarding your quest, I think its very good and respect worthy, but as an advice, when it comes to weapons and other important goods, forget about what might seem as religious barriers :-)

Salaams,

If you have a look at my letter you will see that I have questioned the 17th C European Trade Blade since assuming these blades were produced on mass in the Industrial Revolution they cannot have been made before a certain date. 17th C is far too early. (German invention and British went on at about the same pace whilst in India the Industrial Revolution did not arrive until the early 20th C.) That in no way rules out early foreign cottage industry production except they would have been a lot more expensive.

Having said that I am looking for local production in areas like Salalah and Nizwa but I have an open door on other regions. It is entirely possible that European Trade Blades entered Oman before 1821(Frazer Hormuz) Local blades could have been produced in tandem. It may also transpire as myth. ~ I need to see it proven.

My analysis of The Funoon and The Razha and Ibathi Islamic historical facts are practically the only reference to religion in fathoming out this weapons provenance and without it we would all still be in the dark regarding the Omani Kattara. Politics and Religion are used only in a purely historical sense after all History would be a very thin pamphlet without the driving force of either. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[laEspadaAncha]

It seems to me that blades from the 17th C European Trade Blade presumeably from the Industrial Revolution cannot have been responsible for Omans replacement sword stock because the dates of the European Industrial period are much later. Whilst 1821 is a lot later and more believable why would they accept foreign blades and with the requirement to fully update the Funoon etc? At least we need to look at possible cottage industry production locally and in the absence of proper evidence including blade stamps etc I think that is a worthy cause.


Salaams Ibrahiim,

While the Industrial Revolution may not have begun until the latter half of the 18th century, industrialization of the (sword manufacturing) process had (as I understand it) been occurring in Solingen since the 16th century. The use of (water driven) mechanical hammers allowed for a rate of production significantly greater than traditional hammer forging methods had allowed. There was indeed a significant industry (and thus industrial presence) in place in Solingen in the 17th century producing large quantities of swords. :)

Jim, thank you (yet again!) for taking the time to share your knowledge. The picture you draw of the extensive (and intertwined) networks of trade is demonstrative of how pervasive trade - and the influence it brings - has always been...

[Iain]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

While the Industrial Revolution may not have begun until the latter half of the 18th century, industrialization of the (sword manufacturing) process had (as I understand it) been occurring in Solingen since the 16th century. The use of (water driven) mechanical hammers allowed for a rate of production significantly greater than traditional hammer forging methods had allowed. There was indeed a significant industry (and thus industrial presence) in place in Solingen in the 17th century producing large quantities of swords. :)

Jim, thank you (yet again!) for taking the time to share your knowledge. The picture you draw of the extensive (and intertwined) networks of trade is demonstrative of how pervasive trade - and the influence it brings - has always been...

Exactly - by the 16th century water powered hammers and grinders were in use in Solingen. The town was ideally situated with access to local iron ore deposits, vast forests for the necessary charcoal production and the water power necessary to allow for quick forging and manufacture.

A water powered hammer at the time was roughly 5 times faster than hand forging a blade. Typically blades were rough forged by the mechanical hammers and then hand finished using water powered grinders.

This was exponentially faster than the techniques used even in most other areas of Europe at the time. As a result Solingen items were produced at a highly uniform quality for a very competitive price.

These three natural resources of ore, wood and water are not commonly found together in the Sahel or the Mid East. As such steel and the resulting products, were by necessity more expensive in the local economies because the effort and resource consumption relative to local supply (particularly wood) was much higher than the relative consumption in Solingen.

So to put it quite simply, semi industrialized blade production was already happening in Solingen by the 16th century.

Ibrahiim,

I personally have not studied kattara in sufficient detail to show you a list of European blades that I've closely researched, however a quick Google search soon turns up some leads you can follow up on. Keep in mind the running wolf originated in Passau but was widely used in Solingen as well.

http://therionarms.com/sold/ttoy279.html A correspondent to Therion mentioned dated Portuguese blades in his collection.

Here a sale record for a sword with a running wolf - http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/arab-oman-saif-kattara-sword

Here another with a basic running wolf - http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1971

Here is yet another - http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?64822-is-this-a-good-deal

Here is another sales record for one - http://www.antiq.cz/aukce/m-n/katalog6-98/en/528.html

Finally I stumbled on this old style kattara you might find interesting due to the Arabic inscription (obviously a local blade I just figured I'd post it here before I forgot the link!) - http://www.trocadero.com/101antiques/items/747179/item747179store.html

Even if one or two of these blades are locally produced, why are they applying a wolf stamp stamp copied from Solingen/Passau? The evidence for trade blades is simply unavoidable and is backed up by historical accounts like Fraser.

Just as a final note, and I don't want to get into a lot of detail here since it's not my area and I find your research quite interesting. But in terms of presenting dates and research regarding the old form kattara... You have a compelling and very well thought out theory for how this style of sword entered Oman, but at the same time your heavy use of the 751 date gives an impression that you believe absolutely nothing did change stylistically in over 1000 years (as the sword remains in use until the 18th century) - I'm not sure if that is how you mean to present it or not? I'm simply urging caution here as your enthusiasm for this date I think can be misleading to readers. Certainly the old style swords that are typically encountered I think we would all agree are not 8th century artifacts. Still I think you've done an excellent job putting together a probable timeline for the old style sword so please take this as a constructive comment, I'm just the type of person who is very cautious when it comes to presenting dating theories over such a long period without physical evidence to account for the time in between.

All the best and keep up your research,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Exactly - by the 16th century water powered hammers and grinders were in use in Solingen. The town was ideally situated with access to local iron ore deposits, vast forests for the necessary charcoal production and the water power necessary to allow for quick forging and manufacture.

A water powered hammer at the time was roughly 5 times faster than hand forging a blade. Typically blades were rough forged by the mechanical hammers and then hand finished using water powered grinders.

This was exponentially faster than the techniques used even in most other areas of Europe at the time. As a result Solingen items were produced at a highly uniform quality for a very competitive price.

These three natural resources of ore, wood and water are not commonly found together in the Sahel or the Mid East. As such steel and the resulting products, were by necessity more expensive in the local economies because the effort and resource consumption relative to local supply (particularly wood) was much higher than the relative consumption in Solingen.

So to put it quite simply, semi industrialized blade production was already happening in Solingen by the 16th century.

Ibrahiim,

I personally have not studied kattara in sufficient detail to show you a list of European blades that I've closely researched, however a quick Google search soon turns up some leads you can follow up on. Keep in mind the running wolf originated in Passau but was widely used in Solingen as well.

http://therionarms.com/sold/ttoy279.html A correspondent to Therion mentioned dated Portuguese blades in his collection.

Here a sale record for a sword with a running wolf - http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/arab-oman-saif-kattara-sword

Here another with a basic running wolf - http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1971

Here is yet another - http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?64822-is-this-a-good-deal

Here is another sales record for one - http://www.antiq.cz/aukce/m-n/katalog6-98/en/528.html

Finally I stumbled on this old style kattara you might find interesting due to the Arabic inscription (obviously a local blade I just figured I'd post it here before I forgot the link!) - http://www.trocadero.com/101antiques/items/747179/item747179store.html

Even if one or two of these blades are locally produced, why are they applying a wolf stamp stamp copied from Solingen/Passau? The evidence for trade blades is simply unavoidable and is backed up by historical accounts like Fraser.

Just as a final note, and I don't want to get into a lot of detail here since it's not my area and I find your research quite interesting. But in terms of presenting dates and research regarding the old form kattara... You have a compelling and very well thought out theory for how this style of sword entered Oman, but at the same time your heavy use of the 751 date gives an impression that you believe absolutely nothing did change stylistically in over 1000 years (as the sword remains in use until the 18th century) - I'm not sure if that is how you mean to present it or not? I'm simply urging caution here as your enthusiasm for this date I think can be misleading to readers. Certainly the old style swords that are typically encountered I think we would all agree are not 8th century artifacts. Still I think you've done an excellent job putting together a probable timeline for the old style sword so please take this as a constructive comment, I'm just the type of person who is very cautious when it comes to presenting dating theories over such a long period without physical evidence to account for the time in between.

All the best and keep up your research,

Iain

Salaams Iain,
Superb letter, excellent research and very well put! Last point first; the 751 AD date for the Omani Short Original Battlesword, The Old Kattara. I promote that date as the first appearance of the weapon but by no means the date of all "originals" which must have been manufactured in a bracket of time rather than all at once. The date therefor is of "style". 751AD was the date of the first Ibathi Immam "ibn Julanda", thereby it is chosen as the likely introductory date of the Iconic, indeed Heraldic, Insignia sword against the Abbasid. (this is the sword from the Funoon; The Razha or sword dance and mimic combat formulated at the beginning of the Ibathi structure in 751 A.D) Questions arise such as what was the time bracket and when therefor was the last blade made? (that is the 64,000 dollar question !)

Regarding the Germany related questions; Mass production, Solingen, Running Wolf Stamp etc...I accept the German water powered hammer machinery was turning out vast numbers of blades... I should have researched that..Well spotted ! :shrug: The running wolf stamp I have seen on a New Kattara in a Muscat Museum which they say is 19th C and fake. I have been digging through my notes and about 15 years ago met up with a collector from the UAE who at the time was only beginning to collect swords and he said that Old Kattara had two blades. His collection is now one of the worlds biggest ! I dismissed it at the time but it now transpires that the old weapon was given a new blade, early, perhaps 17th century? and that it was thinner, more flexible, and lighter than the original style. I handled a couple of Old Kattara in the Muscat Souk with flimsy looking blades and didnt give it a second thought, or considered them rusted and worn out... when in fact they may have been the imported blades we are trying to identify.

Could it be that the imported blade and old Kattara was the sword seen by Frazer in Hormuz in about 1821... ? It may have been the vibrating singing blade ? Is it possible that this imported thinner "transitional blade" on the Old Kattara then gave rise to the New Long Kattara form ? :shrug:

In your references there is a so called 1000 AD Old Omani Kattara with a fine Arabic stamp. Their date is wrong by a few centuries.. since this is the sword from the Funoon formulated at the beginning of the Ibathi structure is 751 A.D. The other detail is ok and I like the fact they observe that a sword like this lasted centuries being passed down from father to son and as in Islamic and Arabian style they tended to "retain what worked" for many centuries..

Thank you very much for your excellent input !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

While the Industrial Revolution may not have begun until the latter half of the 18th century, industrialization of the (sword manufacturing) process had (as I understand it) been occurring in Solingen since the 16th century. The use of (water driven) mechanical hammers allowed for a rate of production significantly greater than traditional hammer forging methods had allowed. There was indeed a significant industry (and thus industrial presence) in place in Solingen in the 17th century producing large quantities of swords. :)

Jim, thank you (yet again!) for taking the time to share your knowledge. The picture you draw of the extensive (and intertwined) networks of trade is demonstrative of how pervasive trade - and the influence it brings - has always been...

Salaams, You are absolutely correct and my apologies for taking my eye off the ball regarding German production. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams Iain,
Superb letter, excellent research and very well put! Last point first; the 751 AD date for the Omani Short Original Battlesword, The Old Kattara. I promote that date as the first appearance of the weapon but by no means the date of all "originals" which must have been manufactured in a bracket of time rather than all at once. The date therefor is of "style". 751AD was the date of the first Ibathi Immam "ibn Julanda", thereby it is chosen as the likely introductory date of the Iconic, indeed Heraldic, Insignia sword against the Abbasid. (this is the sword from the Funoon; The Razha or sword dance and mimic combat formulated at the beginning of the Ibathi structure in 751 A.D) Questions arise such as what was the time bracket and when therefor was the last blade made? (that is the 64,000 dollar question !)

Hi Ibrahiim,

Thanks for clarifying the 751AD date. If I can continue to provide a little input, I'm still not convinced we can know the exact style that was transmitted - elements perhaps like the quillions but it still seems a bit of a stretch to say that this stayed completely unchanged? I have no idea, but logically I just see a gap here between the 751AD date and when we actually have examples from. :) I would imagine some stylistic changes might occur over such a long period? Might be interesting to start cataloging all the old style kattara we can find to see if any patterns emerge?



Regarding the Germany related questions; Mass production, Solingen, Running Wolf Stamp etc...I accept the German water powered hammer machinery was turning out vast numbers of blades... I should have researched that..Well spotted ! :shrug: The running wolf stamp I have seen on a New Kattara in a Muscat Museum which they say is 19th C and fake. I have been digging through my notes and about 15 years ago met up with a collector from the UAE who at the time was only beginning to collect swords and he said that Old Kattara had two blades. His collection is now one of the worlds biggest ! I dismissed it at the time but it now transpires that the old weapon was given a new blade, early, perhaps 17th century? and that it was thinner, more flexible, and lighter than the original style. I handled a couple of Old Kattara in the Muscat Souk with flimsy looking blades and didnt give it a second thought, or considered them rusted and worn out... when in fact they may have been the imported blades we are trying to identify.


Thanks for the kind words, I'm not an expert in Solingen manufacturing history but I've learned a few things following trade blades for takouba and kaskara.

I have not seen any blade that looked imported on an old style kattara, but I guess some cross over could have occurred. Would be interesting to see one. If you've seen some in the Souk, even in bad condition it would be interesting to get photographs if you can on some trip in the future.


Could it be that the imported blade and old Kattara was the sword seen by Frazer in Hormuz in about 1821... ? It may have been the vibrating singing blade ? Is it possible that this imported thinner "transitional blade" on the Old Kattara then gave rise to the New Long Kattara form ? :shrug:


That is the big question of course and what I've always wondered about the two types. The difference in hilts. It seems the question of interior versus coast doesn't provide any answers - nor does influence from any nearby countries.

The blade transition I think makes more sense. If the European imports offered some kind of improvement in quality over locally made old kattara style blades then I am sure it would not take long for locals to copy the form and the markings. This is exactly what happened in N. Africa with kaskara and takouba. This would also explain the museum example you mentioned with the faked wolf stamp. This seems like something of a usual pattern where Solingen blades went, copied locally, stamps added to give a sense of authenticity. The form and the stamps become associated with quality. This is of course just an idea based on my observations from takouba blades and may or may not be applicable to kattara.

The hilts of course remain a problem, the only other thing I can think about, and I am probably completely wrong, is that as the sword dance developed over time the quillions and balance of the old sword were possibly modified into the new hilt style to be better suited to the dance? So that the new sword is then designed more for dance? Could this also partly mirror the increase in usage of firearms as the sword became less of a primary weapon as muskets took over? Just some thoughts but that's the only thing I can think of. :)


In your references there is a so called 1000 AD Old Omani Kattara with a fine Arabic stamp. Their date is wrong by a few centuries.. since this is the sword from the Funoon formulated at the beginning of the Ibathi structure is 751 A.D. The other detail is ok and I like the fact they observe that a sword like this lasted centuries being passed down from father to son and as in Islamic and Arabian style they tended to "retain what worked" for many centuries..


Yes I thought you might be interested in what was written on that page. I have no idea what sources they used. Where you able to read the stamp?



Thank you very much for your excellent input !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

My pleasure. I look forward to your further research, you have a great advantage over many collectors in that you get to live in the area where your collection comes from! I would give anything to be able to do some field research in Nigeria!

Cheers,

Iain

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks very much guys! I must say you are all doing great at getting this discussion aligned, and above all, keeping it a friendly discussion...decidely NOT a debate. At this point most of what I am doing is fact finding as stated in various literature, as presented and of course subject to consideration.

I think we have all agreed that Solingen was well equipped and situated for prolific production well before the Industrial Revolution and did in fact supplant many long standing suppliers of blades, particularly Toledo and in many cases the Italian centers for the volume of trade blades. In looking at the various examples linked by Iain of these kattara of the 'new' form, which I consider more aligned with Muscat, in the coastal regions, it still seems to me that most of these are 'trade' blades. Actually, the examples seen in these various sale situations seem to be mounted with blades of the type, and perhaps even traded from Red Sea ports, as they correspond with those found in North Africa in kaskara. The fullering seen is of two types I have seen in these, and in particular the running wolf mark along with the cross and orb are characteristically seen in these Sudanese swords.

Case in point, in one of the kattara with single central fuller, a blade like this is shown in "Kaskara from Northern Darfur, Sudan" Graham Reed, (JAAS, Vol.XII, #3, March 1987, LII, p.168). Mr. Reed was in Darfur just before 1987 and was speaking with the chief who owned this kaskara. He told Reed that he thought the 'running wolf' was a hippopotamus and the cross and orb a tree. He then explained that the blade was from 'before the time of Kasalla, which loosely translates to say, before the increased local production of kaskaras in Kasalla in the 1960s....in other words, a very old blade. This suggests that perhaps these markings were placed on these blades by armourers in the Sudan, or they may well be early to mid 17th century. There is a very real possibility of course, which needs more research, that Solingen makers in the 19th century may have been producing trade blades specifically to these markets. These may well have been copies of much earlier style blades.

With the examples Iain linked:

One of these seems the exact same style blade (Reed, LII), and the markings seen. It seems that among the other examples shown, and as often is the case, the 16th,17th century dates are optimistically and it seems somewhat arbitrarily added, though the European attribution is often acceptable but with some caveat. The use of the running wolf had largely subsided in Solingen by the latter 17th century, in fact was not widely used except in the Caucusus where it was used by Chechen makers in the 19th century and in the 18th century only by Samuel Harvey in England with his initials.

In the one example shown first, the hilt is entirely different than most examples and as was rebutted in the listing, actually is a Manding sabre, not Omani. The leatherwork is correspondent to the scabbard styles of the Manding of Mali, and the grip is graduated though without the knob usually on top.

It does seem possible that some of these blades (except the running wolf examples)could be from the 18th century, as such blades were entering British India in the latter years. I have seen pata with Solingen blades with familiar markings of 18th century and the also familiar kaskara type triple fuller blades. Haider and Tipu's armies in Mysore used German and French mercenaries and there were significant numbers of these swords extant there and certainly in Malabar to the west. There were significant commercial ties between Muscat and India in the latter 18th century which continued into the 19th. The favor of German blades was well explained by J.H. Grose ("Voyage to the East Indies",1772) ; "...though there is no doubt that the English blades were bought by the Marathas, the factory correspondence shows that they were highly unsatisfactory and were progressively in less demand. Angrey, the famous Maratha admiral used to say that the English blades were 'only fit to cut butter with'". ("Indian Arms & Armour" G.Pant, p.42-43).
Clearly the desire and demand for German blades was well established by the Marathas as well as the Mysoris, and with the trade in Malabar which served Muscat. There was considerable trade between Gujerat and Muscat as well, and Gujeratis lived in Muscat and Omanis lived in Surat, ("Trade and Empire in Muscat and Zanzibar" , Mohamed Reda Bhacker, 1992, p.31).



The other points of entry into Muscat would have been via the Red Sea ports as well as other Arabian ports en route to Zanzibar, where these blades would have likely been among other commodities.

With regard to the desired properties of the German blades, Jan Ostrowski ("The Polish Sabre", 1979, p.226) notes, "...the greater elasticity of European steel permitted thinner blades than did Damascene steel, which was more brittle and usually required thicker blades".
The famed Turkish traveller Euliya Celebi in "Seyahatname" praises the quality of 'Tuetonic steel' calling it 'German iron'. ("Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths", Istanbil, 2001, p.10).

With regard to Umayyad and Abbasid swords, I must correct an earlier comment of mine in which I said examples of these no longer existed. Actually I misremembered what Yucel had said, which was that while we cannot be certain (empirically) of the hilts or mounts on the examples in Istanbul in the collection known as the Sacred Swords, there is far more certainty as to the blades, which seem to be of those periods in provenance. (op.cit. p.54). Apparantly one of the telling features are the one to seven gold filled holes in the blades, and the rounded point is noted as well.
The degree in which these are represented in the old battle swords is unclear, as are the hilts as noted. In Elgood, it is noted as mentioned before that the blades on these are often German and thought to be 17th century (examples 2.14 and 2.15) but others also have Persian blades.

Guess thats all I have for now, there'll be a quiz tomorrow :)
just kidding !

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,

Thanks for clarifying the 751AD date. If I can continue to provide a little input, I'm still not convinced we can know the exact style that was transmitted - elements perhaps like the quillions but it still seems a bit of a stretch to say that this stayed completely unchanged? I have no idea, but logically I just see a gap here between the 751AD date and when we actually have examples from. :) I would imagine some stylistic changes might occur over such a long period? Might be interesting to start cataloging all the old style kattara we can find to see if any patterns emerge?




Thanks for the kind words, I'm not an expert in Solingen manufacturing history but I've learned a few things following trade blades for takouba and kaskara.

I have not seen any blade that looked imported on an old style kattara, but I guess some cross over could have occurred. Would be interesting to see one. If you've seen some in the Souk, even in bad condition it would be interesting to get photographs if you can on some trip in the future.



That is the big question of course and what I've always wondered about the two types. The difference in hilts. It seems the question of interior versus coast doesn't provide any answers - nor does influence from any nearby countries.

The blade transition I think makes more sense. If the European imports offered some kind of improvement in quality over locally made old kattara style blades then I am sure it would not take long for locals to copy the form and the markings. This is exactly what happened in N. Africa with kaskara and takouba. This would also explain the museum example you mentioned with the faked wolf stamp. This seems like something of a usual pattern where Solingen blades went, copied locally, stamps added to give a sense of authenticity. The form and the stamps become associated with quality. This is of course just an idea based on my observations from takouba blades and may or may not be applicable to kattara.

The hilts of course remain a problem, the only other thing I can think about, and I am probably completely wrong, is that as the sword dance developed over time the quillions and balance of the old sword were possibly modified into the new hilt style to be better suited to the dance? So that the new sword is then designed more for dance? Could this also partly mirror the increase in usage of firearms as the sword became less of a primary weapon as muskets took over? Just some thoughts but that's the only thing I can think of. :)



Yes I thought you might be interested in what was written on that page. I have no idea what sources they used. Where you able to read the stamp?




My pleasure. I look forward to your further research, you have a great advantage over many collectors in that you get to live in the area where your collection comes from! I would give anything to be able to do some field research in Nigeria!

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain,

Great that you have taken such time to remark on the issue and your input is most appreciated.. As always in detective work I am concious of the danger is in arriving at a perfectly sound conclusion using logic and common sense without the painstaking research needed to back it up. The danger in "situating the appreciation" is always present instead of the other way around! The only way to nail this Old Kattara 1. With an original Style Blade and 2. With a blade of circa 17th C is to line up an example of each. (Im attempting to achieve that). I think that will happen quite soon ~ I needed to see Ariels example but having had a good look at it on the auction site I think it is an original form and, actually, could have an inscription at the throat..I will ask Ariel.

The blade with a clear, round Omani/Arabian stamp is fascinating. Im hopeless at precise deciphering and will ask Al Nakkas to look at that. The question there must be ~ Is it a manufacture stamp or a later ownership stamp? That weapon carries the usual information on this sword added verbattum by various houses. I think much of it is roughly correct but much is missing or clouded over. The Funoon and the Razha are not mentioned.

Your point about firearms eventually taking over from swords is probably right. Like in most Islamic weapons however I think tried and tested well accepted designs went on and on. In 1955 at the famous confrontation in Buraimi the tribesmen turned up with abu futtilla, daggers and swords as well as Martini Henry and Enfields.

~ I think we are looking at an ancient sword which at about the time of the Yaruba dynasty 1624-1744 which in perhaps the 17th or 18th C took on a thinner, flexible, less wing shaped blade from Europe (Germany) as a transitional blade which then morphed into the new Kattara in perhaps the 18th 19thC that entered folklore on top of an already well established tradition and as an extension of it. ~

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks very much guys! I must say you are all doing great at getting this discussion aligned, and above all, keeping it a friendly discussion...decidely NOT a debate. At this point most of what I am doing is fact finding as stated in various literature, as presented and of course subject to consideration.

I think we have all agreed that Solingen was well equipped and situated for prolific production well before the Industrial Revolution and did in fact supplant many long standing suppliers of blades, particularly Toledo and in many cases the Italian centers for the volume of trade blades. In looking at the various examples linked by Iain of these kattara of the 'new' form, which I consider more aligned with Muscat, in the coastal regions, it still seems to me that most of these are 'trade' blades. Actually, the examples seen in these various sale situations seem to be mounted with blades of the type, and perhaps even traded from Red Sea ports, as they correspond with those found in North Africa in kaskara. The fullering seen is of two types I have seen in these, and in particular the running wolf mark along with the cross and orb are characteristically seen in these Sudanese swords.

Case in point, in one of the kattara with single central fuller, a blade like this is shown in "Kaskara from Northern Darfur, Sudan" Graham Reed, (JAAS, Vol.XII, #3, March 1987, LII, p.168). Mr. Reed was in Darfur just before 1987 and was speaking with the chief who owned this kaskara. He told Reed that he thought the 'running wolf' was a hippopotamus and the cross and orb a tree. He then explained that the blade was from 'before the time of Kasalla, which loosely translates to say, before the increased local production of kaskaras in Kasalla in the 1960s....in other words, a very old blade. This suggests that perhaps these markings were placed on these blades by armourers in the Sudan, or they may well be early to mid 17th century. There is a very real possibility of course, which needs more research, that Solingen makers in the 19th century may have been producing trade blades specifically to these markets. These may well have been copies of much earlier style blades.

With the examples Iain linked:

One of these seems the exact same style blade (Reed, LII), and the markings seen. It seems that among the other examples shown, and as often is the case, the 16th,17th century dates are optimistically and it seems somewhat arbitrarily added, though the European attribution is often acceptable but with some caveat. The use of the running wolf had largely subsided in Solingen by the latter 17th century, in fact was not widely used except in the Caucusus where it was used by Chechen makers in the 19th century and in the 18th century only by Samuel Harvey in England with his initials.

In the one example shown first, the hilt is entirely different than most examples and as was rebutted in the listing, actually is a Manding sabre, not Omani. The leatherwork is correspondent to the scabbard styles of the Manding of Mali, and the grip is graduated though without the knob usually on top.

It does seem possible that some of these blades (except the running wolf examples)could be from the 18th century, as such blades were entering British India in the latter years. I have seen pata with Solingen blades with familiar markings of 18th century and the also familiar kaskara type triple fuller blades. Haider and Tipu's armies in Mysore used German and French mercenaries and there were significant numbers of these swords extant there and certainly in Malabar to the west. There were significant commercial ties between Muscat and India in the latter 18th century which continued into the 19th. The favor of German blades was well explained by J.H. Grose ("Voyage to the East Indies",1772) ; "...though there is no doubt that the English blades were bought by the Marathas, the factory correspondence shows that they were highly unsatisfactory and were progressively in less demand. Angrey, the famous Maratha admiral used to say that the English blades were 'only fit to cut butter with'". ("Indian Arms & Armour" G.Pant, p.42-43).
Clearly the desire and demand for German blades was well established by the Marathas as well as the Mysoris, and with the trade in Malabar which served Muscat. There was considerable trade between Gujerat and Muscat as well, and Gujeratis lived in Muscat and Omanis lived in Surat, ("Trade and Empire in Muscat and Zanzibar" , Mohamed Reda Bhacker, 1992, p.31).



The other points of entry into Muscat would have been via the Red Sea ports as well as other Arabian ports en route to Zanzibar, where these blades would have likely been among other commodities.

With regard to the desired properties of the German blades, Jan Ostrowski ("The Polish Sabre", 1979, p.226) notes, "...the greater elasticity of European steel permitted thinner blades than did Damascene steel, which was more brittle and usually required thicker blades".
The famed Turkish traveller Euliya Celebi in "Seyahatname" praises the quality of 'Tuetonic steel' calling it 'German iron'. ("Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths", Istanbil, 2001, p.10).

With regard to Umayyad and Abbasid swords, I must correct an earlier comment of mine in which I said examples of these no longer existed. Actually I misremembered what Yucel had said, which was that while we cannot be certain (empirically) of the hilts or mounts on the examples in Istanbul in the collection known as the Sacred Swords, there is far more certainty as to the blades, which seem to be of those periods in provenance. (op.cit. p.54). Apparantly one of the telling features are the one to seven gold filled holes in the blades, and the rounded point is noted as well.
The degree in which these are represented in the old battle swords is unclear, as are the hilts as noted. In Elgood, it is noted as mentioned before that the blades on these are often German and thought to be 17th century (examples 2.14 and 2.15) but others also have Persian blades.

Guess thats all I have for now, there'll be a quiz tomorrow :)
just kidding !

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim...

Thank you for another inspiring letter. I need more time to revise please?? There is huge input by you here and I should take a day or two to get hold of the bulk of it. :shrug:

I think between us i.e. "The Forum" we may, in due course, be able to underwrite a general statement encompassing all of the latest material and perhaps put a firm line under the Old Omani Kattara. I suspect, however, that the story of the New Kattara could run on a while. I am delighted that we have just crashed through 4000 hits with a healthy developing number of excellent letters of very informative Forum research.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balaooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Forum ~ the example posted by Iain is what I would describe as near perfect of the Omani Old Kattara and is best seen at http://www.trocadero.com/101antique...47179store.html

Unusually it carries an Omani stamp in Arabic possibly with the name of the owner though perhaps Al Nakkas can better decipher?

There is no dot/ dots on the blade. That could be for several reasons not least that not all blades had dots... Look at the point and notice how degraded it is. It degrades in the centre.. at what I call the "Dot Position" I have seen blades with a single dot at the point about an inch from the tip and dots at the throat. (See this thread for an example by Michael Blalock #61) . Regarding the degraded point I believe this is because the dot near the point is a natural weak spot and as the point wears it breaks or is worn and degraded at the very place of the dot evidenced by a "soft W shaped tip" ...

That is also the place on the Abbasid sword( at the TIP) where the dot is placed...

and is one of the 11 copies, influences or similarities taken on board the Old Omani Kattara "Style" in CIRCA 751 A.D. :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Forum,
I have copied in (with additions and subtractions) from Wikipedia a historical note important in the entire thread as underlying support detail and background material on Omani History;

In 751AD Ibadi Muslims, a moderate branch of the Kharijites, established an imamate in Oman. Despite interruptions, the Ibadi imamate survived until the mid-20th century.

But Oman was nonetheless conquered by several foreign powers, having been controlled by the Qarmatians between 931–932 and then again between 933–934.Between 967 and 1053, Oman was part of the domain of the Iranian Buyyids, and between 1053 and 1154, Oman was part of the Great Seljuk empire.

In 1154, the indigenous Nabhani dynasty took control of Oman, and the Nabhani kings ruled Oman until 1470, with an interruption of 37 years between 1406 and 1444.

Muscat was taken by the Portuguese on 1 April 1515, and was held until 26 January 1650, although the Ottomans controlled Muscat between 1550–1551 and 1581–1588. In about the year 1600, Nabhani rule was temporarily restored to Oman, although that lasted only to 1624, when fifth imamate, which is also known as the Yarubid Imamate ensued.. The latter recaptured Muscat from the Portuguese in 1650 after a colonial presence on the northeastern coast of Oman dating to 1508. The Yarubid dynasty expanded, acquiring former Portuguese colonies in East Africa and engaging in the slave trade. By 1719 dynastic succession led to the nomination of Saif ibn Sultan II. His candidacy prompted a rivalry among the ulama and a civil war between the two major tribes, the Hinawi and the Ghafiri, with the Ghafiri supporting Saif ibn Sultan II. He assumed power in 1748 after the leaders of both factions had been killed in battle, but the rivalry continued, with the factionalization working in favor of the Iranians, who occupied Muscat and Sohar in 1743.

The Iranians had occupied the coast before—indeed the coast was often the possession of various empires. These empires brought order to the religious and ethnic diversity of the population of this cosmopolitan region. Yet the intervention on behalf of an unpopular dynasty brought about a revolt. The leader of the revolt, Ahmad ibn Said al Said, was elected sultan of Muscat upon the expulsion of the Persians. The position of Sultan of Muscat would remain in the possession of the Al Said clan even when the imamate of Oman remained out of reach.

The Al Said clan became a royal dynasty when Ahmad ibn Said Al Said was elected imam following the expulsion of the Iranians from Muscat in 1744. Like its predecessors, Al Said dynastic rule has been characterized by a history of internecine family struggle, fratricide, and usurpation. Apart from threats within the ruling family, there was the omnipresent challenge from the independent tribes of the interior who rejected the authority of the sultan, recognizing the imam as the sole legitimate leader and pressing, by resort to arms, for the restoration of the imamate.

Schisms within the ruling family were apparent before Ahmad ibn Said's death in 1783 and were later manifest with the division of the family into two main lines, the Sultan ibn Ahmad Al Said (r. 1792–1806) line controlling the maritime state, with nominal control over the entire country; and the Qais branch, with authority over the Al Batinah and Ar Rustaq areas. During the period of Sultan Said ibn Sultan Al Said's rule (1806–1856), Oman cultivated its East African colonies, profiting from the slave trade. As a regional commercial power in the 19th century, Oman held territories on the island of Zanzibar off the coast of East Africa, the area along the coast of East Africa known as Zanj including Mombasa and Dar es Salaam, and until 1958 in Gwadar (in present-day Pakistan) on the coast of the Arabian Sea. But when the British declared slavery illegal in the mid-19th century, the sultanate's fortunes reversed. The economy collapsed, and many Omani families migrated to Zanzibar. The population of Muscat fell from 55,000 to 8,000 between the 1850s and 1870s. Most of the overseas possessions were seized by the United Kingdom and by 1850 Oman was an isolated and poor area of the world.

Late 19th and early 20th centuries

When Sultan Sa'id bin Sultan Al-Busaid died in 1856, his sons quarreled over the succession. As a result of this struggle, the empire—through the mediation of the British Government under the Canning Award—was divided in 1861 into two separate principalities: Zanzibar (with its East African dependencies), and Muscat and Oman.

The death of Sa'id bin Sultan in 1856 prompted a further division: the descendants of the late sultan ruled Muscat and Oman (Thuwaini ibn Said Al-Busaid, r. 1856–1866) and Zanzibar (Mayid ibn Said Al-Busaid, r. 1856–1870); the Qais branch intermittently allied itself with the ulama to restore imamate legitimacy. In 1868 Azzam ibn Qais Al-Busaid (r. 1868–1871) emerged as self-declared imam. Although a significant number of Hinawi tribes recognized him as imam, the public neither elected him nor acclaimed him as such.

Imam Azzan understood that to unify the country a strong, central authority had to be established with control over the interior tribes of Oman. His rule was jeopardized by the British, who interpreted his policy of bringing the interior tribes under the central government as a move against their established order. In resorting to military means to unify Muscat and Oman, Imam Azzam alienated members of the Ghafiri tribes, who revolted in the 1870–1871 period. The British gave Imam Azzam's rival, Turki ibn Said Al-Busaid, financial and political support. Turki ibn Said succeeded in defeating the forces of Imam Azzam, who was killed in battle outside Matrah in January 1871.

Muscat and Oman was the object of Franco-British rivalry throughout the 18th century. During the 19th century, Muscat and Oman and the United Kingdom concluded several treaties of friendship and commerce. In 1908 the British entered into an agreement of friendship. Their traditional association was confirmed in 1951 through a new treaty of friendship, commerce, and navigation by which the United Kingdom recognized the Sultanate of Muscat and Oman as a fully independent state.

During the late 19th century and early 20th century, the sultan in Muscat faced rebellion by members of the Ibadi sect residing in the interior of Oman, centered around the town of Nizwa, who wanted to be ruled exclusively by their religious leader, the Imam of Oman. This conflict was resolved temporarily by the Treaty of Seeb, which granted the imam autonomous rule in the interior Imamate of Oman, while recognising the nominal sovereignty of the sultan elsewhere.

The conflict flared up again in 1954, when the new imam led a sporadic 5-year rebellion against the sultan's efforts to extend government control into the interior. The insurgents were defeated in 1959 with British help. "The Buraimi Confrontation" and "The Jebel Akhdar Campaign". The sultan then terminated the Treaty of Seeb and eliminated the office of the Imam. In the early 1960s, the Imam, exiled to Saudi Arabia, obtained support from his hosts and other Arab governments, but this support ended in the 1980s. Zanzibar paid an annual subsidy to Muscat and Oman until its independence in early 1964.

In 1964, a separatist revolt began in Dhofar province. Aided by Communist and leftist governments such as the former South Yemen (People's Democratic Republic of Yemen), the rebels formed the Dhofar Liberation Front, which later merged with the Marxist-dominated Popular Front for the Liberation of Oman and the Arab Gulf (PFLOAG). The PFLOAG's declared intention was to overthrow all traditional Persian Gulf régimes. In mid-1974, the Bahrain branch of the PFLOAG was established as a separate organisation and the Omani branch changed its name to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Oman (PFLO), while continuing the Dhofar Rebellion.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks!
I got lucky, always wanted one of those, but they are usually very expensive:-)

Salaams Ariel, Ive had a good look at the pictures and I consider it to be of original form. Can you please inspect the blade as I imagine I can see an Arabic inscription on the blade near the throat?
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hey Jim,

You are correct, the "Magyar" blades were mainly sabers. They can be told apart from other european blades due to their decoration.

I could have used a better description to why I considered the Kattara a landlocked type. What I ment is that while it did spread into Zanzibar (was Omani territory anyways) it did not spread in Arabia, which its people favoured the shamshir oriented Badawi style. Keep in mind that Omani's lived in as far as Kuwait for God knows how far in time but the sword style was never adopted. The Omani Khanjar though was adopted quickly as a sign of prestige :-)

I need to start hunting for heirloom pictures... For example, a friend of mine who's from Omani origin has a Khanjar of super quality, think its made of gold . it belonged to his late grandfather. Almost all families here have a heirloom here and there...

Salaams,
Kindly have a look at this link and may I ask you to help me decipher the Arabic stamp on the blade? http://www.trocadero.com/101antique...47179store.html Thanks very much.. Shukran Jazeelan wa Eid Mubarrak for Sunday coming..
Salaams Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Forum..
This webpage should perhaps be viewed as it may be related and shows Topkapi exhibits; users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/turk/topkapiarms.html

I swear I have seen an Abbasid sword about 8th or 9th C with a dot to the blade tip...?? :shrug:

Ah perhaps I can slide in a quote from Jim on this note with bold letters by me ~
"In looking into references in Yucel, I was also amazed that I had apparantly missed so much attention to the presence of gold filled holes in many of these blades, including of course those believed to be Umayyad and Abbasid. Apparantly, according to Yucel, these occur in numbers of one to seven dots, and often are placed strategically next to inscriptions or devotional passages as seen in a number of the plates. He claims these gold dots are to give the swordsman good luck, which is of course a simplified reference to the much more complex talismanic applications which may be present.
I would note that many of these swords were from Mamluk provenance before entering the Ottoman armouries, which may explain the presence of this affectation found on some swords in North African sphere, using usually copper filled holes. The placing of these often near the blade tip is in the same fashion seen on many of the blades in Topkapi, though they are often but one of numerous other dots on the blade. Unquote


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim and may I reply in blue under each paragraph...?

Thanks very much guys! I must say you are all doing great at getting this discussion aligned, and above all, keeping it a friendly discussion...decidely NOT a debate. At this point most of what I am doing is fact finding as stated in various literature, as presented and of course subject to consideration.
Agreed Jim and as you have said before we are all learning !

I think we have all agreed that Solingen was well equipped and situated for prolific production well before the Industrial Revolution and did in fact supplant many long standing suppliers of blades, particularly Toledo and in many cases the Italian centers for the volume of trade blades. In looking at the various examples linked by Iain of these kattara of the 'new' form, which I consider more aligned with Muscat, in the coastal regions, it still seems to me that most of these are 'trade' blades.

I dont agree with these blades being Muscat. Nizwa had considerable say in what went on especially in respect of sword style. If anything sword style was the same all over Oman not factionalised. ( I am investigating the Salalah situation where every man has a New style Kattara even today.. Its use obviously prolific in an area largely divorced from Muscat at that time and thought more of as Yemen even. The Jebali tribes, in fact, straddle the border even today.


Actually, the examples seen in these various sale situations seem to be mounted with blades of the type, and perhaps even traded from Red Sea ports, as they correspond with those found in North Africa in kaskara. The fullering seen is of two types I have seen in these, and in particular the running wolf mark along with the cross and orb are characteristically seen in these Sudanese swords.

They may correspond but they aren't the same. The running wolf where marked are regarded as fake therefor are unreliable having been copied onto blades where and by whom? I have no evidence of cross and Orb on Omani New Kattara. One of the problems in finding the sword trail is that there are no identical swords like this either side of the Red Sea or in Africa. This means that batches and shiploads of New Style Kattara went direct to Oman only. Where they crop up eg in Zanzibar/Pemba and the nearby African Coast is because they were taken there by Omanis from Oman.

Case in point, in one of the kattara with single central fuller, a blade like this is shown in "Kaskara from Northern Darfur, Sudan" Graham Reed, (JAAS, Vol.XII, #3, March 1987, LII, p.168). Mr. Reed was in Darfur just before 1987 and was speaking with the chief who owned this kaskara. He told Reed that he thought the 'running wolf' was a hippopotamus and the cross and orb a tree. He then explained that the blade was from 'before the time of Kasalla, which loosely translates to say, before the increased local production of kaskaras in Kasalla in the 1960s....in other words, a very old blade. This suggests that perhaps these markings were placed on these blades by armourers in the Sudan, or they may well be early to mid 17th century. There is a very real possibility of course, which needs more research, that Solingen makers in the 19th century may have been producing trade blades specifically to these markets. These may well have been copies of much earlier style blades.

Yes it is always interesting talking to people first hand though often the response is only regarding what they can remember or what their father said...and therefor often very unreliable though interesting. I agree with all the possibilities outlined.
With the examples Iain linked:

One of these seems the exact same style blade (Reed, LII), and the markings seen. It seems that among the other examples shown, and as often is the case, the 16th,17th century dates are optimistically and it seems somewhat arbitrarily added, though the European attribution is often acceptable but with some caveat. The use of the running wolf had largely subsided in Solingen by the latter 17th century, in fact was not widely used except in the Caucusus where it was used by Chechen makers in the 19th century and in the 18th century only by Samuel Harvey in England with his initials.

In the one example shown first, the hilt is entirely different than most examples and as was rebutted in the listing, actually is a Manding sabre, not Omani. The leatherwork is correspondent to the scabbard styles of the Manding of Mali, and the grip is graduated though without the knob usually on top.

Do you mean this thread at #1? Agreed. The blade is too thick and would not, I suspect, bend through 90 degrees easily. It is not an New style Omani Kattara. The blade marks appear fake also. The hilt seems Omani and the scabbard could be. That is not to say that an Omani person did not carry it.

It does seem possible that some of these blades (except the running wolf examples)could be from the 18th century, as such blades were entering British India in the latter years. I have seen pata with Solingen blades with familiar markings of 18th century and the also familiar kaskara type triple fuller blades. Haider and Tipu's armies in Mysore used German and French mercenaries and there were significant numbers of these swords extant there and certainly in Malabar to the west. There were significant commercial ties between Muscat and India in the latter 18th century which continued into the 19th. The favor of German blades was well explained by J.H. Grose ("Voyage to the East Indies",1772) ; "...though there is no doubt that the English blades were bought by the Marathas, the factory correspondence shows that they were highly unsatisfactory and were progressively in less demand. Angrey, the famous Maratha admiral used to say that the English blades were 'only fit to cut butter with'". ("Indian Arms & Armour" G.Pant, p.42-43).

The bold letters are mine on your quote The favor of German blades was well explained by J.H. Grose ("Voyage to the East Indies",1772) which is a good solid research note I didnt have the benefit of. Thank you for that. I believe that may account for the second blade of The Omani Old Kattara... not the NEW KATTARA... however it is a key date quotation along with your earlier 1821 Frazer quote in Hormuz. Both these quotes may come back to assist us in our conclusion soon to either/all ;
1. Old Omani Kattara with original style blade.
2. Old Omani Kattara with replacement blade.
3. New Omani Kattara with long flexible spatulate tip blade.


Clearly the desire and demand for German blades was well established by the Marathas as well as the Mysoris, and with the trade in Malabar which served Muscat. There was considerable trade between Gujerat and Muscat as well, and Gujeratis lived in Muscat and Omanis lived in Surat, ("Trade and Empire in Muscat and Zanzibar" , Mohamed Reda Bhacker, 1992, p.31).

Though it remains a puzzle as to why no Indian blades were adopted by Oman. India had scores of good, well designed blades but none were adopted. Trade was very tightly controlled by the British from Bombay see Oman and French Relations in the Indian Ocean by Doctor Sheikh Sultan Al Qasimi covering the 3 centuries up to 1900...I find it hard to believe that trade with Muscat and the outside world (Europe) really flourished because of the reluctance of Oman to accept embassadors into Muscat until the 1900s. Local / African/ Indian/ Persian/ Gulf/ trade did however boom !


The other points of entry into Muscat would have been via the Red Sea ports as well as other Arabian ports en route to Zanzibar, where these blades would have likely been among other commodities.

I can find no evidence of New Omani Kattara spilling out in peripheral regions of the Red Sea on route to Oman. That is also the case regarding the second blade of the Old Omani Kattara. That could mean that they came direct via the Cape circumventing Africa and the Red Sea or elsewhere or that they were made locally or all of those.

With regard to the desired properties of the German blades, Jan Ostrowski ("The Polish Sabre", 1979, p.226) notes, "...the greater elasticity of European steel permitted thinner blades than did Damascene steel, which was more brittle and usually required thicker blades".
The famed Turkish traveller Euliya Celebi in "Seyahatname" praises the quality of 'Tuetonic steel' calling it 'German iron'. ("Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths", Istanbil, 2001, p.10).

Interesting detail Jim...Thank you ! I didnt know that ! If it comes up in a quiz I'm on it !

With regard to Umayyad and Abbasid swords, I must correct an earlier comment of mine in which I said examples of these no longer existed. Actually I misremembered what Yucel had said, which was that while we cannot be certain (empirically) of the hilts or mounts on the examples in Istanbul in the collection known as the Sacred Swords, there is far more certainty as to the blades, which seem to be of those periods in provenance. (op.cit. p.54). Apparantly one of the telling features are the one to seven gold filled holes in the blades, and the rounded point is noted as well.
The degree in which these are represented in the old battle swords is unclear, as are the hilts as noted. In Elgood, it is noted as mentioned before that the blades on these are often German and thought to be 17th century (examples 2.14 and 2.15) but others also have Persian blades.

Agreed that the Topkapi has various swords of Abbasid provenance users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/turk/topkapiarms.html
I noted 11 similarities to the Old Omani Kattara giving it a provisional style date parallel to Ibn Julanda the first Ibadi Immam in 751 AD. (though it is quite possibly perhaps 50 to 100 years earlier!) The first Immam date, however, seems logical. What I suspect throws people is my introduction of the Funoon from that time illustrated by the sword dance with the buckler shield. The Razha. I dont think everyone realises that this was not a written tradition, rather, it was enacted as if on stage rather like pantomime and at several pageants every year without fail in the form of a parade or dance past without shields and mimic fighting contests with sword and shield. It was sacrasanct and absolute in that it heralded both Eids and was used at weddings and public gatherings. It still is. This living breathing enterprise of folklore and fact, history and tradition echos life through the ages in Oman therefor it quite rightly shows the changed dance pattern with the NEW OMANI KATTARA and the same old Terrs shield though as yet I have no exact date. The second thin blade for the Old Kattara possibly imported in the 17TH C may be a transitional blade leading to The NEW OMANI KATTARA.

Guess thats all I have for now, there'll be a quiz tomorrow
just kidding !

All the best,
Jim

Thanks Jim ...Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, Forum.
It has slowly dawned upon me that a reference book library (non commercially structured) would be an ideal servant to our needs.. To illustrate this point I add this book below as an example which would probably save a lot of time getting to the heart of Islamic Swords in the period we are debating. Indeed a book library of some description will be the subject in its own right of a new thread, however, I wanted to bring on the discussion with this relevant sampler;

Al-suyuf al-Islamiyya. [=Islamic swords and swordsmiths]. Pref. by Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu
YUCEL, UNSAL
Bookseller: BOSPHORUS BOOKS (Istanbul, -, Turkey)

Book Description: Istanbul: IRCICA, 1988., 1988. CD-ROM copy. In Arabic. Catalog describing 114 swords kept in the Topkapi Seraglio Museum and the Military Museum in Istanbul. These swords were used between the first and tenth centuries Hijra (7th - 16th centuries A.D.) Part I is related to the blessed swords of the Prophet, the four khalifas and companions of the Prophet. Part II examines the characteristics of Islamic swords and the development of their form: the analysis is based on 92 swords used in different periods. Part III is devoted to Muslim swordsmiths. Index of swords and bibliography included. Fine. Bookseller Inventory # 36526

Naturally many excellent books on a variety of Forum topics are available ~ somewhere ~ but a forum book list library of reccommended publications would be ideal. Perhaps in the form of a sticky.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams ~ as a bi-product of this research I have just discovered a rather remarkable fact from a book I knew I had to read by Ronald Codrai called Abu Dhabi, An Arabian Album; about life in the 50s and 60s. It is a superb collection of mid 20th C Photos however more specific to the subject of Kattara on page 86, 87 shows the Razha sword fighting ritual to the drum beat and on page 191 a sword dance using a curved sword. In fact the curved sword appears in the page 86 and 87 pictures going up against a straight Kattara in the mimic combat ritual. Not only was the dance performed at Eid but at social occasions, weddings and circumcision.

What is fascinating to note from the pictures is that in the absence of the Terrs Buckler Shield exponents simply used a sandal as the shield...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

A question for all our old style kattara owners...

Going back to the first page of this thread and TVV's sword... There is a blade marking I'm interested in.

http://vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=47563&stc=1

I've seen it on a few long kattara and one short old style kattara. I'm wondering if there are other cases on the short swords.

There is a reason I'm asking which I'll reveal in due time if there's enough info and other examples out there to make something of it.

[Michael Blalock]

I have it on this new style kattara

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have it on this new style kattara

Salaams Michael ~ please show if possible the full sword ~ Is this a Maroon مرن (flexible) sword...or stiff. Does it have a spatula end or point. Initially it looks like a blade strike made after manufacture... any other marks? Regards Ibrahiim
p.s. please note Jims sticky/classic thread? on European forum # 38 and 43 and 66 mainly outlining Peter Cull marks but I suspect the mark to your item is placed afterwards.

[Iain]

Thanks for posting Michael. The reason I'm interested in this mark is that I've previously commented on the intriguing superficial similarities between wide native made takouba blades and the old style Omani kattara.

I noticed these little cross marks on kattara the other day and was immediately reminded of an obscure, but possible mark on a takouba blade of mine. It might just be the most oddly shaped bit of pitting, but the similarities struck me.

I am probably shooting in the dark here and my "mark" could be nothing at all. But I like to dream a little sometimes!

Cheers,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks for posting Michael. The reason I'm interested in this mark is that I've previously commented on the intriguing superficial similarities between wide native made takouba blades and the old style Omani kattara.

I noticed these little cross marks on kattara the other day and was immediately reminded of an obscure, but possible mark on a takouba blade of mine. It might just be the most oddly shaped bit of pitting, but the similarities struck me.

I am probably shooting in the dark here and my "mark" could be nothing at all. But I like to dream a little sometimes!

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain, Its a bit out of line centrally so I think its an accidental, possibly combat strike but interesting. Just looking at Islamic decorative style on rugs to compare with possible blade marks the cross is used extensively in rug making and appears to represent candle light.. as a welcoming sign. It occurs in Hachlu door hanging rugs and elsewhere on the silkroad. Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
ps These blades like the one at Michaels appear to be thick non flexible but I await a full photo..

[Michael Blalock]

Ibrahiim,
There are some photos on the following post.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4328

There is another symbol on the other side. I will try and post a better photo later. And yes blade is quite stiff but it is long, and sharp as a razor. The wire work on the hilt is amazing.

[Michael Blalock]

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.

Salaams Michael,
Nice pictures thanks. I can see a series of marks at the throat below the cross which could indicate a date? Or they could be accidental.

When you say not stiff ... does the blade flex through 90 degrees easily or are we looking at a fairly rigid example as at # 1 ?

Are these orb and cross Peter Cull marks without the orb... or fake strikes? I mean "copied strikes" as fake is a bit steep. On the other hand are these cross strikes not simply part of a bigger insignia that didn't get completed such as the tower mark which does seem to have a similar tool mark in its foundations?

The tower mark looks familiar..There is a full tower mark at #84 and the cross marks look identical to the # 1. I wonder however, if in fact, the tower mark on your sword is a variation on the God is Great insignia as a representative piece of calligraphy(albeit with mallet and chisel) :shrug:

Regards Ibrahiim

[Michael Blalock]

The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The marks on the last picture of the blade do look like remants of lettering to me but I can't make anything out. Maybe the guys at the FBI who can read filed off serial numbers could read it. I could try various spectrum of light.

Salaams... What you mean the Forum Blade Investigators? :shrug:
Regards Ibrahiim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All,

The investigation continues and we are at a crossroads in the research rather than a stall point. Various additional information has come to light including the alternative use of a sandal as a shield in the absence of the Terrs and some indicators of stamp maker marks on old Kattara from the interior plus a very recent pair of perhaps old 18th C curved Sayf blades possibly from Salalah with identical "god is great stamps" different to any seen so far.

I offer the following framework so far uncovered to date;

We have concluded that extensive evidence indicates an early Abbasid influenced straight sword, rigid, with turned down quillons, 8 sided hilt and Islamic pommel with occasionally blade dots; Sword variously Shown on this thread. Date of design and inception 751 AD , parallel with the appearance in Oman of The First Immam, Ibn Julanda. The early Kattara used as the "Heraldic" Ibathi Sword used against the Abbasids garrisoned in Oman whose Caliphs in Iraq vehemently disagreed with the formation of the splinter group Ibathi sect.

Thus; The Omani Sword known as Kattara used in unison with the Terrs Shield and displayed in the Funoon as both an ancient ritual parade sword dance and mimic martial dance notably in The Razha; The Sword Dance... in the mid 8thC. A.D.

The sword went on for a thousand years or more (Gaining Iconic status in the last 200 years) though perhaps in the 17th C a replacement thinner lighter more flexible blade appeared possibly from European sources. It is likely that with the advent of gunpowder sparked the demise of bladed weapons though the loss of expertise in making original wing shaped cross sectioned blades may also have led to the cheaper replacements. In fact the story could be a reversal of that since all males over about 16 years of age are eligible to yield a Kattara and that more men now have a sword for ritual dancing than ever before.

Some time later perhaps in the 18th ? 19th C a complete sword appeared i.e. blade hilt and pommel as one piece. This blade was very Flexible capable of a 90 degree bend from the spatulate tip. It was to revolutionise the Funoon. It has been suggested it is a European Trade Blade though no solid proof exists. The blades carry a variety of blademarks many of which are fake or copies. No ships manifests have yet been discovered of numbers of blades in the hold for delivery to Oman. It is suggested by association that since Africa was awash with German blades then Oman must also have been. Yet no evidence exists, no other place in the Red Sea, Africa, Yemen India or Iran sport these blades. They are entirely specific to Oman and no blade stamps are conclusive as to origin. Tantalising blades similar but not flexible and much thicker seem to come from Saudia and or Yemen as #1 on this thread which may or may not be related and carry distinctive blade marks suggested as being either a european copy (Peter Cull cross) or Islamic forms of Akhbar(great) short calligraphy form of the god is great stamp.

This was a dancing sword and could be buzzed in the air. Whats more it was peculiar to Oman only and the reason why it turned up in Zanzibar was because Oman owned it.. The sword encompassed the Terrs and inherited the name Kattara.

The point of the research is to try to define where did the new blades originate and when?

By normal trade inside Oman, through and between souqs, recent blades (aprox within the last 100 years) appear. Two known sources are Ras Al Khaimah and Salalah. It is likely that other centres have knocked out suitably made blades including Nizwa and Muscat. How much has leaked into Oman from Yemen, Persia, India, Sri Lanka, Zanzibar, Africa, Europe or other centres is unknown but is probably substantial. It could be that in searching for a mass influx at some point in time in the last 200 years of a vast quantity of blades is in fact chasing shadows but we are not alone in history and perhaps the art of "tilting at windmills" is still alive.

The search continues.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I will show the pair of Salalah Sayf in my next letter ..In detail... It may come as a shock to some... :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All,

Here are some pictures of a pair of identical blade marks made on apparently two different blade types at the same time and at the same position on each blade and on each side. I noted in my previous letter of swords leaching into the Omani system over the years however I would ask the forum a question;

~ Looking at the wear on these blades what would you attribute their age and where would you reckon they are from ~ ?

These of course are curved Omani Sayfs aren't they?... which attained Iconic status like a number of other Omani variants according to photos of various Sultans up to late 19thC and early 20th C. Known Iconic swords worn thus are Shamshir, Sayf, Zanzibari Nimcha, and Kattara both new and old(though, interestingly, not the somewhat fabled 17th C replacement variant blade for the old Kattara.)

The stamp is "God is Great" though in a form I have not, til now, seen. I would ignore the scabbards in both cases and hilt decoration as having been done relatively recently and of no significance perhaps.

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Forum,


Salaams, I have an important note for Forum, :shrug:

Reference Motivate Publishing. The Craft Herritage of Oman. By Neil Richardson and Marcia Dorr in two volumes.

I have said that the straight weapon was called Kattara whilst the curved is called a Sayf. This is true and untrue to the extent that ;

1. Regionally there appears to be some flexible name useage/mixup.
2. People I ask just guess and say the first thing in their heads!
3. People don't know.

Here I give warning notice that we may have got it all the wrong way round.

The straight is a Sayf and the curved is a Kattara.

My reference is The Great Herritage of Oman by Richardson and Dorr, page 230. and page 455. I can seriously reccommend this book as the Omani artefact book .. The best I have seen... It even has reference pictures from My Fathers old store! I am embarrased somewhat by the fact that for decades I have been wrongly naming and referring to the swords when in fact they are the other way around....!!! :mad:

I started asking people a few months ago which was which and to my horror I realised no one had any proof and most were, as usual, guessing. Omani people call all swords Sayf or Saif or Kattara depending on which way the wind is blowing !! and come to think of it ... it makes little or no difference to them anyway. Trying to research under that arrangement drives me crazy !!

Forum please note! Straight Omani Swords are called Sayf and curved are Kattara. ~ I am very embarrassed and for the rest of the week I shall be wearing a set of donkeys ears !!

A curved Kattara in the Bait al Zubair collection looks to be 18/19thC and attributed possibly to German origin. (page 455 same ref.) The book also illustrates other curved kattara from Persia but used in Oman.

So the straight weapon is a Saif, The curved is a Kattara (or Kittara). There is another with a flambouyant wavy edge and a single fuller called Saif abu Falq. The blades with 3 fullers are termed abu thalath musayil. I heard the term for the first time today to describe the old Omani sword (turned down quillons ) as Yemeni Sayf !! though I proceed with great care along that road.

Some mystique continues to surround all things Omani and questions still arise in all sectors on origins particularly the so called European trade blades? I see a new derivative on the Old Omani Sword with a Royal Sa- idiyyah hilt. Regarding Ters Shields it is rumoured they came from Zanzibar and are of some amphibious animal hide that could be either/or Whale, Hippo, Rhino or Waterbuffalo.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara.

Salaams All,

There have been a few bombshells on the thread so far... a bumpy ride but I hope worth it eventually. Here is another ~

From a very well informed source within the Omani historical documentation record..page 450 of Richardson and Dorr (The Bible on Omani artefacts) says ;

Quote "The majority of steel blades used in Omani weaponry are of foreign origin. As late as the mid 20thC, however, many high quality Omani blades were produced by itinerant "gypsy" smiths who travelled from town to town working to commission. Today gypsy blade-makers no longer ply their trade but the traditional hand forging of Omani blades persists in a small number of workshops located in Northern Oman and Musandam".Unquote. :eek:

I believe that is the historical equivalent of a custard pie !! :)

This could well explain why:

1. The fact that no 2 Straight Sayf blades are the same.
2. No sword workshops appear anywhere to date (except in the Musandam)
3. The ghost like appearance of blades without proof of production.
4. My tilting at windmills.

Having now achieved thus far some reasonable details I am still looking at several discrepancies and need to confirm if there was a second thinner blade to the older sword sometime in about the 17th C. Regards Ibrahiim

"The straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara".

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

"The straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara".

Salaams All ~ Brilliant News !!!

I have just been visited by the national documents researcher of Abu Dhabi Culture and Heritage; Madam Ghaya Khalfan al Dhaheri who is from the oldest and most highly respected family in Al Ain and a specialist in all things "artefact" in the UAE. The UAE are our direct neighbors and we almost ... almost ...share the same city. Our part is in Oman and called Buraimi... Their part in the UAE called Al Ain. Each is a few minutes drive..In the old days it was all one.

She has confirmed the details of The Funoon and Razha and indicated that the mimic fighting dance is called Ayaaleh and coresponds to the same routine with Sayf and Terrs as in Oman.

She confirms the name for the Old Omani straight sword ~ The Sayf with turned down Quillons ~ as also being the correct name ie Sayf.... or Saif. Further more that the local name was Saif Yamaani. The straight flexible sword that superceded it is called Sayf also in the UAE. The Kattara is the curved sword though she added that they also called a curved variant Sayf Damasc... which I take to be a Shamshir.

On the question of manufacture of swords by some amazing fluke it turns out that about 100 years ago her great grandfather Rakan Ibn Suroor al Dhahiri made swords in Al Ain 20 minutes away! They used the bellows method to raise the heat in the small furnace combined with a special wood called Al Yaraabi from the Samar tree. Often the furnace would be run for more than two days solid, day and night, until a weapon was produced. They had a team of bellows men working in turns to push air into the forge. Rakan Ibn Suroor actually made a famous sword called dark cloud (Ghamaam) for the father of the late ruler known as Sheikh Zayed The Great. I may relate that amazing tale later..

What is astonishing is that we have now identified a manufacturing base right here... within a few kilometres of Buraimi and of course the name and a great contact and a historian of some notoriety.

Regarding the situation about Gypsies (Zutood) ... I was pleasantly surprised to learn that a band of Gypsies used to come to this region Al Ain/ Buraimi many years ago from Oman having arrived on the Omani coast by Dhow from India. They were she said very Indian in appearance and did weird dancing , didnt pray, spoke an unintelligible language, stole everything they could lay their hands on and after a few weeks suddenly they would vanish to the Gulf Coast and presumeably onto a Dhow for India until the next time...

It is not beyond belief that the same or similar Gypsies perhaps having learned their trade from Hyderabad? pedalled swords and made them on commission for Omanis as per my previous post. This is perhaps the loose cannon in the equation and though probably untraceable it does explain some of the mystique ... A wandering forge sword manufacturing team ! :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

"The Straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara".

Salaams All,

At this point I would like to place before the Forum the results in numbered format to date so that the impact and direction of this thread can be fully seen. It may also act as a précis of the key results so far which are quite astonishing viz;

1. The Old Omani Battle Sword (Sayf) Turned down Quillons..dates to the beginning of Ibathi Islam marked by the appearance of the first Imam Ibn Julanda in 751 A.D. #65
2. It is similar in 11 ways to the Abbasid sword against which it was used. #5
3. It continued in service for around 1000 years; being passed down father to son, until its decline probably because of the advent of gunpowder and possibly because it was being superseded by a lighter more flexible blade but perhaps because the expertise in making the old blade had ceased to exist. #153
4. It has a living record in the Funoon, Razha and Agaaleh; traditional dance and martial mimicry from the inception of the first Imam and every year, many times, since. #56
5. It is called Sayf but its local name in the UAE and Omani Interior is Sayf Yamaani (the term for the sword from old Yemen) #157
6. It achieved Iconic status seen on a drawing at the waist of an(1890) 19th C. Sultan. #25
7. It was used in unison with a Buckler Shield (Terrs) made from an amphibious beast either Whale, Hippo, Water Buffalo or possibly Rhino. #155
8. It may have had a replacement hilt thinner and flexible fitted in the 17th C but detail is as yet unresolved.
9. A completely new blade appeared as a one piece "hilt blade and tang" possibly in the 18th and /or 19th C and 20th C and 21stC from external sources perhaps from Europe and /or local and / or other places like India; as yet unresolved.
10. The New Sayf retained the old name and the Buckler shield and was absorbed into the Funoon with a new style of handling and movement. #56 and 65
11. Local centres of production include Musandam peninsular and Al Ain/Buraimi. Nizwa may have made swords since they had the expertise to make copper utensils and iron tools using the bellows technique to increase the heat..#98 and157
12. A visitor (Mr Frazer) to Hormuz garrisoned by Omani troops noted in 1821….. that they wore a broadsword similar to a Scotish Claymore.
13. The famous British secretary ( Mr Ingrams) at the Royal Zanzibar Court in about 1910 noted that the Funoon / Razha sword dances were only performed by Omani men (born in Muscat… not Zanzibaris indicating the system was indeed Omani.)
14. Gypsies (Zutood) may have produced many swords in Oman with a wandering forge on commission. #156
15. The New Sayf gained popularity and Iconic status and seen in photographs on the waist of Zanzibari Sultans in the late 19th and early 20th C.
16. A flambouyant or zig zag bladed Sayf variant appeared at a point not yet determined but probably after 1821.#30
17. Sayf is the very old Arabic word for swords whilst Kattara may not even be an Arabic word at all and may have only joined the vocabulary in the 18th or 19th C with the advent of curved blades entering the arena from all points of the compass which in turn achieved VIP status like most styles of Omani swords photographed on the waist in Zamzibar etc. #21
18. A new nomenclature has been reported to Forum as "The Straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara". #155
19. Key reference material from The Omani Craft Heritage Documentation Project, Muscat Museum, Bait Zubair Museum and the Abu Dhabi Cultural and Heritage Foundation are offered as definitive proof so far along with almost 160 Forum letters many full of vital, excellent, helpful and constructive notes.

"The Straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara".

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Thank you for the this detailed outline Ibrahiim. Your interactions with Madam Ghaya Khalfan al Dhaheri were particularly interesting to read about. This is absolutely the best possible method for conducting field research these days and I am grateful for you taking the time to do this and sharing it with us.

I also look forward to hearing the tale of the Dark Cloud sword!

All the best,

Iain

[Jeff D]

"The Straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara".

Salaams All,

At this point I would like to place before the Forum the results in numbered format to date so that the impact and direction of this thread can be fully seen. It may also act as a précis of the key results so far which are quite astonishing viz;

1. The Old Omani Battle Sword (Sayf) Turned down Quillons..dates to the beginning of Ibathi Islam marked by the appearance of the first Imam Ibn Julanda in 751 A.D. #65
2. It is similar in 11 ways to the Abbasid sword against which it was used. #5
3. It continued in service for around 1000 years; being passed down father to son, until its decline probably because of the advent of gunpowder and possibly because it was being superseded by a lighter more flexible blade but perhaps because the expertise in making the old blade had ceased to exist. #153
4. It has a living record in the Funoon, Razha and Agaaleh; traditional dance and martial mimicry from the inception of the first Imam and every year, many times, since. #56
5. It is called Sayf but its local name in the UAE and Omani Interior is Sayf Yamaani (the term for the sword from old Yemen) #157
6. It achieved Iconic status seen on a drawing at the waist of an(1890) 19th C. Sultan. #25
7. It was used in unison with a Buckler Shield (Terrs) made from an amphibious beast either Whale, Hippo, Water Buffalo or possibly Rhino. #155
8. It may have had a replacement hilt thinner and flexible fitted in the 17th C but detail is as yet unresolved.
9. A completely new blade appeared as a one piece "hilt blade and tang" possibly in the 18th and /or 19th C and 20th C and 21stC from external sources perhaps from Europe and /or local and / or other places like India; as yet unresolved.
10. The New Sayf retained the old name and the Buckler shield and was absorbed into the Funoon with a new style of handling and movement. #56 and 65
11. Local centres of production include Musandam peninsular and Al Ain/Buraimi. Nizwa may have made swords since they had the expertise to make copper utensils and iron tools using the bellows technique to increase the heat..#98 and157
12. A visitor (Mr Frazer) to Hormuz garrisoned by Omani troops noted in 1821….. that they wore a broadsword similar to a Scotish Claymore.
13. The famous British secretary ( Mr Ingrams) at the Royal Zanzibar Court in about 1910 noted that the Funoon / Razha sword dances were only performed by Omani men (born in Muscat… not Zanzibaris indicating the system was indeed Omani.)
14. Gypsies (Zutood) may have produced many swords in Oman with a wandering forge on commission. #156
15. The New Sayf gained popularity and Iconic status and seen in photographs on the waist of Zanzibari Sultans in the late 19th and early 20th C.
16. A flambouyant or zig zag bladed Sayf variant appeared at a point not yet determined but probably after 1821.#30
17. Sayf is the very old Arabic word for swords whilst Kattara may not even be an Arabic word at all and may have only joined the vocabulary in the 18th or 19th C with the advent of curved blades entering the arena from all points of the compass which in turn achieved VIP status like most styles of Omani swords photographed on the waist in Zamzibar etc. #21
18. A new nomenclature has been reported to Forum as "The Straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara". #155
19. Key reference material from The Omani Craft Heritage Documentation Project, Muscat Museum, Bait Zubair Museum and the Abu Dhabi Cultural and Heritage Foundation are offered as definitive proof so far along with almost 160 Forum letters many full of vital, excellent, helpful and constructive notes.

"The Straight is a Sayf and the Curved is a Kattara".

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Thanks

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank you for the this detailed outline Ibrahiim. Your interactions with Madam Ghaya Khalfan al Dhaheri were particularly interesting to read about. This is absolutely the best possible method for conducting field research these days and I am grateful for you taking the time to do this and sharing it with us.

I also look forward to hearing the tale of the Dark Cloud sword!

All the best,

Iain

Salaams Iain, ~Are you sitting comfortably? ~ Then I'll begin ~ Once upon a time ~About 100 years ago~
Rakan Ibn Suroor al Dhahiri, now recognised as a great sword maker on the Buraimi/ al Ain oasis which I believe was called Tawam in those days operated a bellows enhanced forge and using special high temperature burning wood as described. To keep the furnace hot a team of bellows men took it in turns to operate the hand blower system made of animal skins. Rakan was always in trouble at home because once started it took two days non stop work to complete a sword~ an absence which made his wife very angry !
The Sheikh .. Sheikh Zayed The Great .. and his entourage were involved in a sword fight and in his party was Rakan . The Sheikhs sword snapped in half and quickly Rakan handed him his own sword and thus without a weapon withdrew from the afray... fast! Zayed continued the fight finished off the enemy and noticed how fine had been the weapon which though given brutal hammering against the foe... seemed to be unscathed. Later as he handed back Rakans sword he remarked asking who made this fine blade? Rakan said it was he... Rakan the Swordmaker. Zayed was surprised and had heard of the master craftsman but hadnt realised he was in his group ... Rakan asked if he could make a sword for him.... and Zayed agreed.
It took 2 months on the forge to make the blade. Rakans wife would be furious!
When he delivered it to the Sheikh he was asked by Zayed... how is the blade?... to which he replied that it was an excellent edge and very strong to which he had given it the name Dark Cloud . Zayed The Great remarked that it had better be good because if it wasn't he would come back and test it on Rakan...
Soon after there was a meeting of all the leaders and a feast ensued ... preceeded by the slaughtering of a camel for the feast. An ideal opportunity to test the blade! The sheikh drew his sword and in one fell swoop cut the beast entirely in half!
Dark Cloud had spoken... In later years when the leader died the sword passed to the sons who fought and killed each other til finally Khaliffa took the weapon and hid it somewhere in the desert so it could not kill again.

Thus the story of Dark Cloud passed into folklore of The UAE.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks

Salaams Jeff D, I think the points so far discovered also indicate the direction we need to proceed in... to finally conclude this part of the research. Im glad you like the detective work so far.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
On The Buraimi Oasis.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Straight Omani Sayf. (or Saif)

Showing 3.

1.Top.The Sayf Abu Falq. Flambouyant zig zag blade occasionally seen.

2.Centre The Sayf. Probably the weapon that superceded 3 below in the late 18/early19th C (and until today) from a variety of sources possibly European and certainly local manufacture.

3.Bottom The Sayf Yamaani; The ancient Omani Battle Sword design of around 751 AD lasting 1000 plus years. Origin uncertain but Hadramaut Yemen is suspect, Basra Iraq or elsewhere possibly Oman. Replaced gradually by 2 above from late 18/early 19thC.

*A sword with 3 fullers is also referred to as Abu Thalath Musayil.
** All curved swords are called Kattara in Oman including Shamshir, Nimcha and any other curved variants.

The Buckler Shield(Terrs or Turs) is made from Hippo, Rhino, Waterbuffalo or Whale hide and said to came from the region of Zanzibar.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, Notes to forum ~

1.In 1878 a Mr Geary (editor of the Times of India) visited Muscat and wrote of the weapons he saw carried by locals ~ A favourite weapon is a straight broad two-handed sword, the sweep of which would take off a man's thigh or even cut him in two at the waist.The swordsmen carried over their shoulder small shields of rhinoceros horn 8 or 9 inches in diameter....

2.Captain James Welstead in 1835 at Jalaan Bani Bu Ali (on the Eastern edge of the Wahaybah) remarked on the Funoon, Razha, sword parade and dance that the blades of their swords are 3 feet in length, straight, thin, double edged and as sharp as a razor.

3.Mr Frazer who also visited Hormuz in 1821 (and Oman at the same time as Welstead in about 1835) described The Omani Garrison at Hormuz swords as similar to Scotish Broadswords and also described separately in Oman later the Ters buckler shields..

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

~The Gypsy (Zutoot) Situation in Oman.~

It has been suggested in my previous posts that Gypsies from India wandered about in Oman randomly doing sword manufacturing for commissions using a wandering forge system.

Evidence is almost impossible to verify, though, there are a few exceptional accounts from those that can remember or by stories passed down the ages. It is tantalizing that Gypsies from Hyderabad could have been involved.
The following skills were practiced in Oman by Zutoot (Gypsies) from India who had dark skin, danced and played music, stole everything , moved about from place to place, used an unintelligible language and had no apparent religion. Their skills viz;

1. Tinning.
2. Fixing broken metal objects.
3. Sword and knife makers fixers and sharpeners.
4. Medical Practitioners.

Tinning. Virtually every copper and brass vessel, plate, tray, spoon, ladle and coffee pot was traditionally tinned. This was normally done by drenching the object in molton tin and draining off the superfluous metal. It was done to protect from verdigris poisoning.

Fixing broken metal objects. Many pots even today can be seen to have crenelated repairs and resoldering repairs etc..Far less expensive than a new item repairing was standard practice.

Sword and Knife makers, fixers and sharpeners. It is noted from the Cultural Heritage of Oman that swords were said to be made on commission by Gypsies. Local dignatories can remember Zutoot making basic knives on the Buraimi Oasis and some apparently still exist today and are sought. National Documents Research Abu Dhabi have also given similar evidence.

Medical Practitioners. This was a cross between herbal medicine superstitious belief and accepted socio-religious structures; Zutoot were experts at Circumcision. They knew herbal cures.

Timeline. All sources indicate that frequent visits by Zutoot faded out between 30 and 40 years ago which ties in with events in Oman since most of the above activities became rapidly obsolete after 1970 . Before that there were no doctors, clinics or hospitals and modern items like plastic vessels and pots had not yet appeared. Work for a few bands of wandering tinkers would have been quite plentiful. Once Oman had been injected into the late 20th Century many of the ancient ways vanished. The Zutoot went out on that ticket…it seems.

To what extent did Gypsies make weapons in Oman? No written record exists but it may be assumed that a few swords were made; perhaps dozens but not hundreds. Apparently no examples exist/have yet been discovered today. It is more likely that they were repairers of broken handles and blade sharpeners but some sword making cannot be ruled out. They may have been from Hyderabad, therefore, expert swords makers, however, I suggest they were of small importance but fascinating in the general picture of Omani Swords and their development.

A fairly vast quantity of information exists on Gypsy history and I have included that in my notes though those have been largely plagiarized from the web. I have outined in Bold Print the relevant skills. All of the detail concerns their history in Europe and parts of the Islamic world though nothing exists from Oman. It makes interesting reading especially and in addition; the gunpowder weaponry in which they were engaged. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes; Web References:

http://romafacts.uni-graz.at/index.php/history/early-european-history-first-discrimination/ottoman-empire (http://)
[URL=http://www.hinduwisdom.info/War_in_Ancient_India.htm (for all things India)[/URL]

Gypsies
Artillery was introduced into Europe by the Roma (Gyspsies), who were none else than the Jats and Rajputs of India.

This has been revealed in a study by a reputed linguist, Weer Rajendra Rishi, after an extensive tour of Roma camps in Europe.
He explains that the Romas, who are the Gypsies of Europe, also taught the use of artillery to Europeans. These Roma belonged to the Jat and Rajput clans who left India during the invasions by Mohamud Ghaznavi and Mohammad Ghori between the 10th and 12th centuries of the Christian era.
He says the use of artillery was known in Asia, notably in India, from time immemorial, while it was introduced to the Europeans much later.
Mr. Rishi reveals that the Roma had helped different countries of Europe in making artillery. “Evidence of this is given as early as 1496 by a mandate of that date granted by Wadislas, King of Hungary, wherein it is said that Thomas Polgar, chief of 25 tents of wandering Gypsies had, with his people, made at Funfkirchen musket-balls and other ammunition for Bishop Sigismond. “In 1546 when the English were holding Boulogne against the French the latter took the help of two experienced Romas of Hungary to make great number of cannons of greater caliber than earlier guns. The Hungarian Roma of the 16th century possessed fuller knowledge of fabricating artillery than the races of Western Europe.
There were also records that the Roma were employed as soldiers by some countries of Europe. Dr. W. R. Rishi, is the author of the book, Roma - The Panjabi Emigrants in Europe, Central and Middle Asia, the USSR, and the Americas - published 1976. Mr. Rishi is a well-known linguist of India and was awarded the honour of 'Padmashri' by the President of India in 1970 for his contributions in the field of linguistics. He is also the Founder Director of the Indian Institute of Romani Studies.

THE TAX REGISTER OF SULTAN SULEIMAN I THE MAGNIFICENT
1522-1523, during the reign of Sultan Suleiman I the Magnificent, another tax register was prepared, entitled “Comprehensive roll of the income and taxation of the Gypsies of the Province of Rumelia”. This vast register consisted of 347 pages and specifically dealt with the “Gypsies”. It recorded the number of “Gypsy” households classified according to tax communities, situated in nine judicial districts encompassing big parts of what is now the Balkan peninsula. This is a unique document with a huge quantity of data about the “Gypsy” population in the Balkans in the beginning of the 16th century.
The register recorded 10,294 Christian and 4,203 Muslim “Gypsy” households (in the total a further 471 widows’ households were included). Apart from these, there were a further 2,694 Muslim households in the “Gypsy sanjak”. According to the same calculations, counting each household having an average of 5 people, this made a total of 66,000 “Gypsies” in the Balkans, of which about 47,000 were Christian.
Further calculations made on the basis of this register are also of great interest. According to these, a total of 17,191 “Gypsy” households – in what became the territory of the present-day Balkan states – were distributed as follows: Turkey – 3,185, Greece – 2,512, Albania – 374, former Yugoslavia – 4,382 and Bulgaria 5,701, while the exact locality of 1,037 households is uncertain. The Ottoman tax registers are also a source for understanding the religious confessions of the Roma. Generally speaking, summarising the data yet available from the tax registers, it can be said that Christian Roma predominated in the 15th and 16th centuries.

HOW THE ROMA EARNED THEIR LIVING
Roma in the Ottoman Empire worked in a range of occupations. In the tax register of 1522-1523 the “Gypsies” were most often recorded as musicians (military or “free lanced”), which is also confirmed by other sources. The musical instruments most commonly mentioned are the “zurnas” (a kind of oboe) and drums, but other instruments were also used (most often the tambourine and in more recent times different string instruments). Along with this, there is much evidence about “Gypsy” ensembles with dancers (mainly Roma and sometimes Jewish women).

In many places around the world the Roma are known as smiths. This occupation has a long tradition, and has been well preserved in the Balkans until the present day. Although during certain periods of time – as in the early 16th century – Roma blacksmiths and ironmongers were relatively uncommon in the Ottoman Empire, evidence concerning blacksmiths becomes very extensive from the 17th century onwards. [Ills. 9, 10]

In some cases the Roma abandoned their former occupations and became involved in agriculture, which they practiced within the framework of the existing feudal possessions of military officers. For example, in an inventory of fiefdoms in the Sofia region, dating to 1445-1446, there is detailed information on one belonging of Ali, which included the village of Dabijiv; it consisted of 15 complete and 3 widows’ households; the inventory categorically states that “they are Gypsies”.

Ill. 9
Closely related to the art of the “Gypsy” musicians was the development of some specialised forms of musical theatrical performances, for example, the puppet shows.
(from Marushiakova / Popov 2001, p. 66)

In the 1522-1523 tax register, among the recorded occupations of the “Gypsies”, are musicians, tinsmiths, farriers, goldsmiths, sword-makers, stove-makers, shoemakers, slipper-makers, makers of clout-nails, leather workers, tailors, carpet-makers, dyers, ironmongers, cheese-makers, butchers, kebab-makers, gardeners, muleteers, guards, prison guards, manservants, couriers, monkey-breeders, well-diggers and others, occasionally including army officers, janissaries, policemen, doctors, surgeons.

Perhaps the earliest record of Gypsy migrations is that recorded in the Shah Nameh (or King's Book) written about 1,000 AD. The Persian poet Firdawsi tells of twelve thousand itinerant minstrels, the Luri, sent to Persia from India about 420 AD, upon the request of a Sassanide prince, Bahram Gur, who intended that they should lighten the life of his hard-working people and charm away their misery. He provided them with grain and agriculture that they should support themselves. This plan was, of course, doomed to failure. The Luri used the supplies and made no attempt at farming. Furious at the waste, the prince sent them all away and condemned them to roam and earn a living by smuggling and begging. This account was confirmed in 940 A.D. by the Arab historian, Hamza.

THE “GYPSY SANJAK” – ROMA IN THE OTTOMAN ARMY
The “Law concerning the Gypsies in the Province of Rumelia” confirms the special administrative legal status and the extended rights to taxation self-government for those living in the “Gypsy sanjak”. Dating from 1541, there was also a special law concerning the leader of the “Gypsy sanjak”. This institution originated in Anatolia but was modified to suit the “Gypsies” in the Balkans. In this case “sanjak” is not used in the usual sense of a territorial unit but in the sense of a special category of the “Gypsy” population which was involved in a number of auxiliary activities in the service of the army.
Roma were, however, recruited into the actual army as well. There is evidence, dating from 1566, that some members of the taxable population who were called up for military duties were Muslim Roma. Estimations made on the basis of the data preserved shows that during the 16th and the 17th centuries between 15,000 and 20,000 “Gypsies” must have been involved in the Ottoman army undertaking various services, mostly auxiliary military duties.

THE “GYPSY SANJAK” – ROMA IN ARMY AUXILIARY SERVICES
The “Gypsies” included in the “Gypsy sanjak” were grouped into “myusellem” (platoons) and their auxiliary units. At the head of each “myusyulem” was the “mir-liva” (major), a non-“Gypsy”, who was in charge of four captains and eleven corporals. For their service the “myusellem” (altogether 543) received land properties, 449 in total, situated in 17 regions of Rumelia. The members of the “myusellem” undertook auxiliary military duties. The head of the “Gypsy sanjak” was based in the town of Kırk Klise (modern Kırklareli) in Eastern Thrace.

Processes of sedentarization in towns and villages were active among the Gypsy population in the Ottoman Empire. A new type of semi-nomadic lifestyle emerged (Gypsies with a specific residence and an active nomadic season within regional boundaries). Most certainly, these processes did not include all Gypsies, nevertheless they were rather active. Often Gypsies would break away from their traditional crafts and take up farming (e.g. 15th c. the village of Dabizhiv populated only by Gypsy households was registered in Sofia county) but usually they still practised some occupations and crafts.

The most popular occupations were village blacksmiths and town musicians. Registers from the years 1522-1523 listed also tinsmiths, farriers, goldsmiths, sword-makers, cutlers, shoe-makers, curriers, sieve-makers, butchers, guards, servants, etc.

It is hard to define which occupations were traditional and which were newly acquired, but the traditional professional specialisation of Gypsy groups seems to have been the case in most instances. Demographic information about Gypsies in Bulgarian lands in 17th and 18th c. is incomplete and quite unreliable. However, one thing is obvious - the tendency of Gypsies to change their religion: while in the 15th and 16th c. Christian Gypsies were the majority, the ratio changed drastically in the 19th c. in favour of Muslim Gypsies.

Known as Dakshini - Sikhs, they belong to the Sikligar, Vanjara and Lubana castes and live as gypsies in various states across India.
The history of Dakshini Sikhs dates back to the time of sixth Sikh guru Hargobind in 1595.
They made swords, spears and shields for the Sikh army.

Their descendents worked for the tenth Sikh guru, Guru Gobind Singh, and joined his army to fight against the Mughals.
In 1832, the Nizam of Hyderabad requested Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the ruler of Punjab, to send his army to ward off attacks from the neighbours. Ranjit Singh sent a force of 2,000 Sikh soldiers, mostly from these castes, many of whom stayed on in Hyderabad.
The Nizam gave jobs to these soldiers who came to be known as Dakshini Sikhs.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Zutooti (or Ztut or Zutoot)

Auxiliary Omani Sword Makers !

The anthropology of Gypsies in Oman and surrounding areas is apparently, as yet, undocumented. Their contribution to knife and sword making though slight is an intriguing factor in that study. They wandered around doing various tasks including tinning and repairs of brass and copper utensils, dishes and coffee pots. They had extraordinary knowledge of herbal medicines and were entrusted with minor operations such as circumcission. Like their counterparts who entered Europe via the Ottoman territories they saw gaps in the local market and as tinkers managed to make a living even where neccessary becoming small holders and farmers.

They could turn their hands to most things and were famous cannon makers and soldiers for the Ottomans. But who were they and what was their position in Omani society?

They may be Indian though it is still being researched and since that is where Gypsies originated (see notes below)...They are described only verbally as there are no actual records. Dark skinned, unruly, generally dirty, unkempt and of no known religion and using a peculiar unintelligible language. They came and went..They stole everything or so it was claimed. Their status was probably as low as it could be in society. Lower than slaves in days gone by. They married only within their own "sect". Allowing a Ztut into ones family would invariably result in daily arguement and fighting. The Ztut were an underclass yet were tolerated, however, with suspicion. Ztut did herbal cures and specialised in wild honey collecting. They knew music and could dance. Some of the girls were stunningly beautiful but regarded as untouchable regarding intermarriage. It appears that a househole would have a few slaves and perhaps a few Ztut under their umbrella but of the 2 Ztut were lower in the pecking order. Ztut were much more loosely attached thus could be expected to vanish overnight. Very odd?

These days they still exist but have retained the attachment of wariness and suspicion in society but still do tinker tasks. It would be very rude (adding to the difficulty in research) to walk up and say you are a Ztut I want to ask you some questions...I have discovered that they still have amazing knowledge of herbal remedies.. they still do wild honey collecting and still potter about doing metalwork. In the old days before 1970 they were very much part of the old Omani fabric where their role in limited sword making cannot be ruled out. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes; Unashamedly I attach almost entirely the brilliant work of Stephanie G. Folse sfolse@du.edu from University of Denver for reference and interesting reading.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tracing the history of a non-literate culture

Linguists compare Gypsy languages to historical languages; they look at words borrowed from other languages and when and where those words originally existed. It is possible to trace Gypsies back to their origin: the Sind area of India (today south central Pakistan -- the mouth of the Indus). Three separate emigrations occurred over the course of about four hundred years, traceable today in three identifiable linguistic populations: the Eastern Gypsy (Domari) in Egypt and the Middle East, the Central Gypsy (Lomavren) in Armenia and eastern Turkey, and the Western Gypsy (Romani) (Romany refers to the people, Romani refers to the language, Rom refers to a man or the people as a whole. Confused yet?:) in Europe. This last group is the population most widely dealt with in reference works and literature, and therefore most of the information here pertains to them.

The first exodus was spurred by a ruler of Afghanistan, Mahmud of Ghanzi, who invaded the Sind area in A.D. 1001-1027. The second exodus arose out of attacks upon northwest India by Mahmud of Gorh (A.D. 1191-1192), and then the empire expansion of Genghis Khan (A.D. 1215-1227). The third took place during the reign of the khan Tamerlane in the late 1300's and early 1400's, when he attempted to repeat Genghis Khan's exploits.

Origin of the Gypsy

The cultural group that would later become the Gypsies led a semi-nomadic life in India, and has been tentatively identified as the Dom, which has been recorded as far back as the sixth century. The Dom performed various specialized jobs such as basket-making, scavenging, metal-working and entertainment, traveling a circuit through several small villages each year. This is not a unique phenomenon; the Irish Travellers, although completely unrelated genetically to the Gypsies, fulfill the same functions. Indian caste beliefs of the time may have been the original model for the strict purity and pollution ideology of the present Gypsies, modified over time through contact with other cultures. This semi-nomadic life allowed the Dom the opportunity to easily flee when battles threatened the area in which they lived, and apparently did so three times during the Middle Ages.

The European Gypsies are perhaps the original refugees from Mahmud of Ghanzi's wars, for all sixty Romani dialects contain Armenian words, suggesting that they passed through Armenia in the early 11th century on the way into the Byzantine Empire. The impetus to continue on and enter Byzantine Anatolia was most likely provided by the Seljuk Turks attacked Armenia during the 11th century and spurred the Gypsies onward

The earliest currently known reference to Gypsies is in a Life of St. George composed in the monastery of Iberon on Mt. Athos in Greece in 1068. It relates events in Constantinople in 1050, when wild animals plagued an imperial park. The Emperor Constantine Monomachus commissioned the help of "a Samaritan people, descendants of Simon the Magician, who were called Adsincani, and notorious for soothsaying and sorcery," who killed the beasts with charmed pieces of meat. (I wonder if the concept of "poison" never occurred to these people?) "Atzinganoi," the Byzantine term for Gypsies, is reflected in several other languages: the German "Zigeuner," the French "Tsiganes," the Italian "Zingari," and the Hungarian "Cziganyok."

During the next 200 years, the Gypsies slowly advanced southwest into Arabia, Egypt and North Africa, northwest into the Byzantine Empire and established themselves in the southern Balkan countries (Serbia, Moldavia, Bulgaria, Hungary and the surrounding area) before 1300. It seems likely to me that this movement was slow due to the westward pressure of the Mongolian Empire; all of Eastern Europe's population was in turmoil and Russian refugees were fleeing west at the time. Once Khubilai Khan died in 1294, the Mongolian Empire began its decline and the borders crept back east, easing pressure on Europe and allowing the Gypsies to expand more rapidly than the previous two centuries. They entered Dubrovnik (modern-day Yugoslavia) before 1362, and had blanketed the Balkans by 1400.

The fourteenth and fifteenth centuries came as close to a Gypsy Golden Age as there had ever been. Gypsies covered Thrace, Macedonia, Greece, Yugoslavia and Rumania long before the Ottoman Turks conquered those lands. There was a large population at the seaport of Modon in the 1300's, on the most popular route to the Holy Land, settled in the Gypsy Quarter, a tent-city just outside the city walls sometimes called Little Egypt. This exposure to pilgrims and the attitudes and privileges accorded to them may have led the Gypsies to adopt pilgrim personas once they spread into Western Europe.

The Gypsies seemed to prefer Venetian territories such as Crete and Corfu, perhaps because those lands were relatively safe from the constant Turkish incursions. The population, and therefore their annual dues, in Corfu increased enough to form an independent fief conferred in 1470 onto the baron Michael de Hugot, which lasted until the nineteenth century. In the town of Nauplion, in the eastern Peloponnese, the Gypsies apparently formed an organized group under a military leader, one Johannes Cinganus (John the Gypsy). The Venetians expected to be given military aid in the case of increasing Turkish raids, and may have hoped the Gypsies would cultivate depopulated land.

Gypsies a little farther north, in the Balkans, were not quite as lucky. They certainly had economic importance, valued as artisans practicing such trades as blacksmithing, locksmithing and tinsmithing, and also filled the niche between peasant and master, but to prevent escape the government declared them slaves of the boyars. They could be sold, exchanged or given away, and any Rumanian man or woman who married a Gypsy became a slave also. Liberty was not fully restored to them in Moldo-Wallachia until the nineteenth century.

During the fifteenth century, the nature of the Gypsies' hesitant travels into Western Europe changed. Before that time, they were quiet, unobtrusive and loosely organized, but afterwards they moved in a purposeful way, courting attention, claiming to be pilgrims and demanding subsidies and letters of dispensation. During the two decades after 1417, there are some interesting observations to make. The Gypsy bands seemed to have some unity of action and connection with each other, telling the same tales and displaying similar supporting documents (papal letters and such). A surprising fact is that well into the sixteenth century there is no mention made of Gypsies having their own language, and no apparent difficulty in communicating with the inhabitants of countries they were visiting for the first time. These groups were organized under leaders with noble names and titles, sometimes exchanged with other chiefs. This is unusual in that many of the countries of central and eastern Europe made sure that Gypsies did not rule Gypsies.

What was behind this curious behavior? It may have been the Turkish invasion of the Balkans in the early 1400's; Wallachia capitulated to Turkish rule in 1415, two years before the first Gypsy bands were recorded in Western Europe. The Gypsies themselves would probably not have been affected in the long run under Turkish rule (ignoring the immediate fires, sacking and battles), due to the Turkish habit of leaving civilian populations free as long as they paid taxes to their conquerors, not an unfamiliar state of affairs for Gypsies. Many people stayed and embraced Islam, but there are records of other refugees including nobles wandering west in groups and subsisting on charity. One traveler who visited Modon attributed the Gypsy migration to lords and counts who would not serve under the Turks. It seems that the self-interest of barons of Gypsy fiefs who stood to lose quite a bit under Turkish rule was the impulse behind the organized incursions into Western Europe, and at least during the first few years the men who claimed to be barons, counts and dukes were telling the truth.

Whatever the impetus, the Gypsies exploded into central Europe. The usual scam involved a group claiming to be from Egypt or Little Egypt (perhaps referring to Modon?) showing up in a city and informing city officials that they were Christians doomed to wander for a period of years to fulfill a penance imposed upon them for the sin of neglecting their religion. They would collect food, money and letters of protection from the city and then continue to the next town. By 1417, Gypsies were recorded in Germanic cities. In 1418, several thousand Gypsies under a leader called Count Michael showed up in Strassbourg. Gypsies were entering Brussels and Holland by 1420, Bologna in 1422, and showing up in Rome in July of that same year. They travelled into Spain by 1425 and Paris by 1427. By the middle of the century, rulers and town governments started banning Gypsies, usually citing theft, fortunetelling, begging and sometimes espionage as the reasons. Europeans also recognized as lies the Gypsies' claims to be pilgrims in exile from Egypt, but there are a few instances of alms being given into the sixteenth century, apparently by slow learners.

At this point their meteoric expansion westward stopped for almost a century. Groups traveled east from the Balkans into Russia, establishing themselves in Siberia by the early sixteenth century but they did not enter Great Britain until 1514, probably because a completely separate ethnic group, the Tinkers, already occupied Britain and performed the same roles Gypsies did in other countries: nomadic entertainers, knife-grinders, pot-menders, woodworkers, transient field employees and so forth. The impetus to enter the British Isles was probably given by late fifteenth century Spanish policies ruling against and banishing Gypsies. With nowhere else to go, they entered Britain, then finally Norway in 1544 and Finland in 1597.

Why stay nomadic for so long?

From an anthropological point of view, I would say that this transient, fully nomadic lifestyle developed in response to the constant fighting pushing them west. Originally refugees from India, they may have thought they would return to their homeland as soon as Mahmoud of Ghanzi's fighting stopped. Refugees quite often stay ready to return to their point of origin for many years once pushed out of their native lands. (A modern example: some Cuban refugees still keep bags packed in anticipation of returning at any time.)

When the Dom people left the Sind, they probably planned to live on the road for a few years and then return to their home territory. Normally, the second generation would have settled down in this "temporary" new area, but they were semi-nomadic to begin with, and then the Seljuk Turks invaded and pushed them farther west. After that the Mongolian expansion kept pushing them, and eventually the idea that there was a "back home" was lost. They retained their original semi-nomadic lifestyle in the midst of sedentary cultures, keeping their language and strict pollution ideology in order to maintain their unity as a people as well as clinging to something familiar in the midst of strange new cultures. They were mostly successful until the nations of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries grew powerful enough to force the majority to settle. Their identity as a separate people is still strong enough for them to remain the brunt of prejudice and hatred, a fact hammered home by the killing of half a million Gypsies by the Nazis during World War II. Now, it may only be a few generations until any idea of nomadism is leached out of almost all Gypsies

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A possible hybridization or variant of an Omani Blade or an actual Omani blade in Wootz.

During the last few weeks I have had a most interesting exchange of letters with Rick Stroud on the subject of his excellent knowledge of Wootz and Omani and Indian blades. Somewhere herein could be the answer to the origin of the sword on this thread at #1 and other similar weapons. More importantly we may be on the edge of a fresh discovery; Omani Swords with Wootz blades?

(Tagged on the end as a note is a comprehensive methodology on etching by Rick which I commend to the Forum with the proviso "That this level of work should only be attempted as a detailed program in a workshops environment by competent restorers and that if in doubt don’t do it… moreover have an expert do it for you".)

Below is a more or less precise interchange of letters between Rick and myself on the subject of Wootz in Omani Swords.

Please see this but if it does not work simply copy the string into search; http://www.vikingsword.com/library/rick_seldomwootz1.pdf (http://)

Salaams Rick,
In considering your sword shown on the webpage reference as Omani I have a few pointers which ring fence this type of weapon to the Red Sea rather than Oman.
First I have seen no Omani wootz examples therefore this suggests that there are none therefore it is an out of area blade on an Omani hilt. There are similar blades in both the museums of Saudia and Yemen on forum and TVV s thread #1 which I believe is a similar blade though not apparently wootz.
The second test is in the flexibility range which from an Omani blade ought to easily go through a 90 degree flex and return to straight immediately.

Your fine sword may not do that though may well be flexible in the 5 to 10 % range.

Thirdly yours is pointed to take advantage of the straight stiffer blade whereas Omani Sayf (of the type argued as European Trade Blades perhaps 17th to 21 st C ) are as you know; spatulate tipped.

Originally straight swords passed from the Mamelukes down the red sea though your blade may have been made as a one off perhaps in Sri Lanka or Hyderabad.

In conclusion I would suggest that your blade is a Saudia or a Yemeni variant on an Omani long Hilt. It could be an Omani merchants or slave traders sword but I believe it is on the flank as a peripheral and important Iconic Red Sea style.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


Salaams Ibrahiim,
Thank you for the e-mail and thoughts about the Omani sword that used to be in my collection but unfortunately has moved onto another collector. A couple of details to add to your assumptions.

First, the blade is thin and very flexible/pliable. It definitately would bend 90 degrees and return true. You mention Saudia or Yemeni as a possible origin but as in your experience with Omani swords and not running across any wootz examples, in my experience, I have not run across any Saudia or Yemeni examples of wootz. Of course, this is not to say that none existed in any of these areas.

A couple of possibilities. One is that we don't have sufficient number of examples left in original polish. A rusted or well patina'ed blade doesn't always reveal the wootz pattern. Matter of fact, on the example under discussion, when I first purchased the sword a wootz pattern was not clearly visible. It was only upon close inspection that I noticed the pattern and I sent it out for a polish which revealed the pattern. It is an unusual pattern and not one I would classify as typical Persian, Ottoman or Indian wootz. However, over the years, I have seen a number of variant patterns that could have originated from anywhere.

Another possibility to consider is that there may have been a small center of blade forging that was familiar with forging wootz that eventually died out and no longer was passed down the generations. From that, there could have been a small production of wootz blades that you may find still hilted in Omani long hilts but the pattern no longer visible due to time and patina.


The third possibility is as you say, an imported blade. On the example we are discussing, in my opinion, a likely source for the blade would be somewhere in India. I have seen a number of very thin, very pliable blades mounted Indian style which would suggest either an Indian blade origin, or, an imported blade from another region. If only our blades could talk to us! No doubt, continued research into this area should yield more findings.

I would suggest that on every blade you have the opportunity to view, that you take it out into very good light and really study the blade surface to see if there are any signs of patterning. Even polishing/etching some blades would reveal the forging technique and metallurgical properties of the blade and with enough samples you may begin to see patterns/similarities enough to opine as to a possible origin for these blades.

With kind regards,
Rick Stroud.

Conclusion (By Ibrahiim)
Essentially I agree with everything Rick has said and have undertaken to search for the Omani Wootz connection by looking very closely at Omani blades.
The likelihood of an Indian or Sri Lankan Wootz sword maker looms large in my calculations. It is likely that sword style was copied from either an Omani straight form ~ Sayf ~ and or styled on swords emerging in the Red Sea area from Saudia or Yemen which may be of Mameluke (or pre Mameluke) origin.
We may be looking at an Omani slave traders sword or an Omani merchant sword. The door is perhaps opening to more Omani swords with Wootz Blades.

If it is the case that this sword and others turn out to be Omani then a very important find has been discovered. The sword is fitted to an Omani Hilt and is flexible though fashioned to a point. Nonetheless the indicators are there for a very interesting addition to the Omani Armoury. :shrug:

Regards, and with particular thanks to Rick Stroud,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.



Notes; Etching by Rick Stroud.

Hi Ibrahiim,
Thanks for the Christmas and New Year well wishes. Much appreciated.
Yes, feel free to record our conversation on your post. I'm happy to contribute in any small way.

As far as a polish and etch, my first recommendation is to utilize a professional polisher. I work with a gentleman in the US that does fantastic work and understands the proper way to clean, etch and neutralize the blade plus understands the proper contours of the blade, can straighten bent blades (when possible), etc. He really does great work. I have done some light cleaning and etching on my own. It is a multiple part process that you have to follow diligently.
The first is that the blade has to be made as smooth and as clean as possible. To do this, you have to remove any rust. Typically, a sanding block or sanding stone can be used to remove the rust but one has to be very careful not to scratch or damage the blade. Keeping the surface of the blade wet while doing this will help and then starting with coarser grades first and then moving down to finer grades will help remove scratches and keep the blade as smooth as possible. Deep pits are challenging because you have to remove too much of the surface of the blade so in those cases conservation of the blade is more in order than a full polish but you still may be able to determine if the blade is wootz or not in smoother/better areas. This is the most labor and time intensive part of the job. You can't rush it. You have to be patient and take your time.

Once you have removed the surface rust/oxidation and have the blade as smooth as possible you then need to make sure the blade is clean and free of any oils or other product. At this stage, you clean the blade thoroughly with a degreaser, like dish soap, and rinse with water. Once you have given it a good clean and then rinsed with water, dry it off with a towel and let it air dry for a bit. Make sure the blade isn't handled with your fingers because they contain oils and this defeats the cleaning you just did.

For an added layer of degreasing, you can take some acetone or denatured alcohol and wipe the blade down really well and then let it air dry for a while in a spot where it won't pick up any additional oils or particles.

Etching should be done with an acid like ferric chloride. It's best to start out with a diluted mix. About 2 teaspoons of ferric chloride and about 10 teaspoons of water. It's good to heat up this solution so the water being mixed in should be hot, even boiling hot. The blade should also be warmed up but not too hot. You don't' want to distort or retemper a blade from heating it up too hot. A hairdryer across the surface will warm the blade up or sitting in the sun for a little bit will warm the blade up.

Before etching the blade, you want to make sure you protect the handle or any important cartouche, inlay or koftgari. You can do a wax resist by the handle so the etchant doesn't run in there. You can also do this around the cartouche or a row of inlay or koftgari.

Then take a foam brush and brush the etchant onto the blade. Work the etchant thoroughly and evenly up and down the blade. Make sure you continue to reapply and keep "painting" the etchant onto the surface. Make sure you wear gloves because the etchant is not good for your skin. If there is a wootz pattern, it should begin to show up pretty quickly. Only etch the blade for a few minutes and then rinse with water. If you are seeing something in the blade, dry it real well, degrease it again, and then do another application of the etchant. I wouldn't do more than 2 or 3 applications. If a pattern is not showing by this time, then you are likely not to have a pattern.

Once finished with the etching, it is important to neutralize. You can take baking soda and make a paste with water. Make it thick enough to apply and "stick" to the surface of the blade. Leave it on for a few minutes and then rinse with water. Rinse well, take a towel and wipe dry and apply some acetone or denatured alcohol and wipe blade thoroughly. You may notice some discoloration on the blade from the etching. These are areas that were missed by the neutralization. You can take some 0000 steel wool and some oil and hit these spots to remove the color.

Most importantly, when you are finished with everything, you need to give the blade a good oiling. Depending on the steel, you may need to reapply a time or two as a blade tends to be "thirsty" after a good clean and etch. And that is pretty much it. At least one method. There are a dozen other ways to try and bring out a pattern but I have found this method to work pretty well on wootz. Good luck if you decide to give it a try.
All the best,
Rick

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Note to Forum. follows

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Note to Forum.

Salaams All ~It should be remembered that the Straight Omani Sayf has two distinct forms;

1. The original short Omani Battle sword and
2. The so called European Trade Blade replacement (17th ~ 19th C)

These are swords that work in tandem with a small shield; The Buckler Shield or Terrs.

The Terrs and Buckler Shield fighting technique. Terrs Wa Sayf.

I ventured onto the European Forum recently to examine some facts about European Buckler and Sword techniques in a bid to learn more on that and make some sort of suggestions on the origin of this type of combat and with reference to the Omani Style. For this I thank the European Forum especially Matchlock Freebooter and Broadaxe for their valuable contributions toward the system I Quote "from Broadaxe termed MS 1.33. From the famous German medieval fencing book Walpurgis-Fechtbuch MS I.33 of ca. 1320, now preserved in the Royal Armouries Leeds." Unquote.

The main questions being: How, if at, did the technique move from country to country and where did it originate?

One interesting gem gleaned in the European Forum ~ it appears that the system used in Lebanon was called the same but died out relatively recently... in the 1970s.

Clearly the technique used in Georgia by KHEVSAR tribesmen is also very similar. It is engrained into their tradition therefor it has survived in the same way essentially as "The Sayf and Terrs" technique in Oman.

As a bonus to that continuation in Oman is its inexorable link to the traditional Funun ... A played out dance(procession with swords and sword with shield mimic fight (ayalaah), music and poetry pageant practised many times a year at weddings, social gatherings, National Day celebrations and Bi Annual Eid Festivals thus tying it to the religious historical record.

The Georgians were very much part of the Crusader contingent and it is not inconceivable that this form was taken from their soirres into the Holy Land. Lebanon on the doorstep of the region would have easily absorbed the technique. Nights Templar and Masonic lodges and other military groups would certainly have experienced this system and could have adopted modified or studied the technique and transported it with them to Europe. Pilgrims may also have made the weapon system known to Europe.

Which way did it happen?... Did the Europeans or Arabs introduce it? My view is that the Funun started in about 751 in support of the Ibathi brand of Islam in Oman but that it actually commenced even earlier and in honour of the general Islamic movement in about 630 AD.

I therefor present the system as originating from Oman and spreading to other Arab countries in a ripple inspired by war, trade and socio-relgious interaction into the central Jerusalem hub. It is suggested that both the Georgian and European contingents absorbed this technique in Jerusalem.

As in most things it froze in Oman and in "The Funun" and was either adopted and retained as by the Khevsars or practiced in Europe for many centuries but waned and died out i.e.. in Europe because of the transition to gunpowder weapons and because it was not sealed within a socio-religious document. It was just a fighting technique.

In Europe it developed with more of the rapier style of sword though I see in the references fairly broad swords being also used... clearly the system was attractive because of the speed and balance of the combination.

I offer this as a forum note and invite suggestions. (Meanwhile I sketch out the direction required for advancing the theory and contradictions of European Trade Blades~plus further research on the Old Omani Battle Sword as well as the curved variants ) pictured below :shrug:

Straight Sayf. Old Omani Battle Sword. Buckler. Curved Kattara.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

For the finer points of history and as a general timeline overview I place the following reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam (http://)

[TVV]

Interesting reserach Ibrahim.

Clearly the technique used in Georgia by KHEVSAR tribesmen is also very similar. It is engrained into their tradition therefor it has survived in the same way essentially as "The Sayf and Terrs" technique in Oman.

The Georgians were very much part of the Crusader contingent and it is not inconceivable that this form was taken from their soirres into the Holy Land.

There are hisotircal sources that mention templars, which aided the Georgians at Didgori, but I am yet to see any sources about the opposite - Georgians travelling to the Holy Lands as mercenaries to the Latins. That does not mean it did not happen, but I would be interested in learning more about this with the proper historical argumentation.

It would also be interesting to see any parallels between the use of the buckler in Oman and the use of bucklers in India and Persia.

Personally, I am not sure if the sword and buckler technique originated somewhere and then spread out from Spain and Scotland to Rajhastan, or if it was independently developped in various places. A small, round shield is a very intuitive form, and the development of fighting technique with it and a sword does not seem that unique to require a single origin.

Regards,
Teodor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Interesting reserach Ibrahim.



There are hisotircal sources that mention templars, which aided the Georgians at Didgori, but I am yet to see any sources about the opposite - Georgians travelling to the Holy Lands as mercenaries to the Latins. That does not mean it did not happen, but I would be interested in learning more about this with the proper historical argumentation.

It would also be interesting to see any parallels between the use of the buckler in Oman and the use of bucklers in India and Persia.

Personally, I am not sure if the sword and buckler technique originated somewhere and then spread out from Spain and Scotland to Rajhastan, or if it was independently developped in various places. A small, round shield is a very intuitive form, and the development of fighting technique with it and a sword does not seem that unique to require a single origin.

Regards,
Teodor


Salaams Teodor~

Thank you for your constructive comments. I take your point since occasionally quite unrelated tribal structures appear globally and it is easy to conjecture buckler shield development as purely coincidental...However~

The Buckler is in the Omani Funun from the start of the Ibathi movement in what we generally consider as 751 AD. in Oman... though earlier if you take the start date of Islam proper.

Transition to the central sector which I include the Holy Land, Lebanon etc was through trade, war and religious pilgrimage. Via Mecca and direct. By sea and land routes; tried and tested.

Georgians and Europeans therefore would have viewed the system and likely came up against it and copied the form on any of the dozen or so crusades (Knights Templar, FreeMasons, Knights of Saint George et al)

System 133 the famous European Buckler and Sword style from the documents available appears to be from between the 10th and 13th Century... not before… so the Europeans developed it at the right time to agree with my assumption that it came to them from the Mediterranean.

My supposition on transmission is therefore: Oman, Mecca, Jerusalem, Lebanon (where it died out in 1970) Thence to Georgia and Europe via 2 different groups in about the 12th 13 th C..

Regarding India I think that may be linked though Oman has taken no bladed weapons to my knowledge (other than isolated firearms) from there. By that I mean of the hundreds of excellent different weapons in the Indian Armoury I see none that have traversed to Oman (though there may be odd individual pieces) The style is Omani.

There are many reasons why but the main one is, I believe, enthroned by the simple principle of "it it works dont change it". Combine that with the virtual sacrasanct nature of the Sayf ~ The Old Omani Battle Sword which lasted plus of 1000 years alongside the Terrs Buckler shield. These 2 pieces of kit are Iconic and virtually heraldic symbols in the Omani tradition reaching back to the 8th Century. Antony North describes in vivid detail the nature of Arab arms which once accepted changed very little down the centuries; Islamic Arms and Armour.

Naturally I view Indian, Sri Lankan and Persian steel production as having a potential bearing on Omani weaponry though actual "sword style" is completely different and the shield is African in nature hailing from Zanzibar (though you can say from African coastal regions)
Some point to the Khanjar as being Indian however the word itself like the word for the straight sword (Sayf) are pure Arabic words.
Pinpointing the origin of the Khanjar may be the subject of a different post however it may never be accurately uncovered.

I suspect however that it began here and evolved into the Indian vocabulary of weapons in about the 15/16th Century via trade etc. Backing my claim is the appearance in one specific pageant where Jebali dancers in the southern province of Oman (Dhofar) practice with it to music in a similar way to the Sayf exponents though I have not a clue (yet) to the time scale on that. The Metropolitan Museum puts the appearance of Khanjars in India to the 16th Century.

~I would, however, only like to mention this on passing since it is off theme slightly (my fault) and to return to the main argument regarding Buckler and Sayf transfer of technology and style to Europe~

I point to the Holy Land and the Crusades, the Omani trade links, known camel routes, sea trade routes, practices, pilgrimages, pageants and wars combined with what we know of the technique and its identical Omani name in Lebanon 40 years ago of "Sayf wa Terrs" and therefore I suggest, that since it began here 500 years before the European book was written on the system that it probably evolved from Oman between the 8th and 13th Century A.D. :shrug:

I welcome any constructive views and once again thank you Teodor for your important input.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi

....since it began here 500 years before the European book was written on the system that it probably evolved from Oman between the 8th and 13th Century A.D.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.[/QUOTE]


Well, don't you think that it might be more fair to compare apples to apples, i.e. date of publication of the first Omani book on the subject? :)

[Rick]

Thread locked until Lew's return .

[Lew]

To all involved in this thread. First the use of a small shield or buckler in combat dates back thousands of years and was used by the Greeks and Romans along with many other cultures so there can be no real say in who invented the fighting system combination of sword and buckler first. All else is just speculation. Now as far as this kattara thread is concerned I really think it has run its course and I am starting to worry about it straying into into grey areas. So for now it will stay closed until I make my decision.

[Lew]

After careful review I decided to reopen the thread. To all involved be aware that personal attacks will not be tolerated on this forum in any form!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Attached are some close-ups of the three marks on this blade.
While taking these I realized that this is not a stiff blade.


Salaams Michael Blalock ~ Please SEE #6 on Ricks "Maker Mark ID" upon which I have commented on that thread.

Compare the Algerian Gun breach mark to your blade mark. Translated it appears to say Amal...(Acccording to Dom) and it looks very like the mark on your sword... All the letters are there stacked in almost identical stylised form. Thus the lid appears to be popped on origin of your Sword Mark... Algeria ! :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I ask the question of the cross on the sword as being a short form of this mark.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well, don't you think that it might be more fair to compare apples to apples, i.e. date of publication of the first Omani book on the subject? :)




Salaams Ariel,

You want me to compare the publication of the first Omani book on the subject ~ I assume you mean with the 13thC European work and upon the basis of fairness?

I think the answer is no for a number of reasons ~

First, that your question assumes perhaps a competitive argument between the two systems whereas mine is a theory for discussion in that the two evolved one from the other in keeping with my conclusive statement at the end of my post viz;

"I point to the Holy Land and the Crusades, the Omani trade links, known camel routes, sea trade routes, practices, pilgrimages, pageants and wars combined with what we know of the technique and its identical Omani name in Lebanon 40 years ago of "Sayf wa Terrs" and therefore I suggest, that since it* began here 500 years before the European book was written on the system** that it probably evolved from Oman between the 8th and 13th Century A.D".

* it refers to the Omani system.
** refers to the European development.

Second, that whereas there is the 13th C European Fightbook on the European system M.133. No document appears so far on the Eastern technique anywhere near the same time frame if at all. Thus in comparing the techniques I have scrutinized the European style and liaised with the European Forum on the subject therefore I report that the similarities are too close to ignore (though always admitting that the evidence as in all forensic research is very difficult to uncover.) Would you have me give up because there is no Arabic Textbook?

Third, your assumption based on the comparison of publications is curious. How many books have been written on the European trade blade structure of circa the 18thC ?... None. Where is the documentary evidence on precise wootz manufacturing technology?... none..The list is endless but illustrates my point that simply relying solely upon books of reference will get us nowhere, however, placing these subjects under the microscope of decent research and proper discussion will help shine a light into the dim corners of antiquity that so far have been blind alleyways.
This is surely the essence of our Forum.

As you probably know ancient mediaeval scripts often written by the clergy offer clues, however, on the Arabian Peninsula they are few and far between... and I fear in this case are non existent, moreover, what we do have is a played out performance structure passing down the message of "life at the time" through the Funoon accompanied by music and poetry which I describe as "the traditions". Thus we are able to view the two styles ~ One in a book for the West and the other as a pageant for the East. In addition the western technique has continued into martial art form till today and in the case of the Lebanese System it resurfaced about 2 centuries ago but has since died out(1970) and was known by the identical Omani name of " Sayf wa Terrs."
I believe that was a clue Dr Watson? :)

If there is an inherent weakness in my theory it could be in the fact that the Lebanese fight style was dormant and only revived 2 centuries ago but died in 1970, however, I believe it was born from passed down and possibly unwritten treatise and perhaps some vague references linked to the Knights in that region during the crusades.. The Georgian concept fits well into the general mix.

Therefore, I argue (in Forum Terms) for the transmission of technology from Oman via the Jerusalem/Holy Land "cog or hub" of this ancient system into both Europe and Georgia. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; The Omani style evolved from the Abbasid occupation and wars during the 8th/9thC. A.D. The Abbasid sword has been shown to be very similar in almost a dozen ways to the Old Omani Battle Sword illustrated on this thread at # 5 The Abbasid were great copiers of the Greek style of most parts of life: architecture, mathematics, science and weaponry etc...

I do not say that the Omanis developed in isolation the form of "buckler and sword" but that they evolved their own development of the technique probably from Abbasid influence (originally Greek) and may well have passed that on as described...and on to exponents who also modified and evolved their own styles in due course.

[ariel]

Hi Ibrahim,
Thanks for the detailed response.
IMHO, the theory you are proposing falls under the category : "True, true, and unrelated"

Multiple cultures had swords and shields, even when the blades were made of copper and bent under minimal effort. Thus, any warrior would avoid direct blade-to-blade contact while attempting to damage the opponent's sword. Thus, parrying with a shield ( of whatever side and form) must have been the routine practice from times immemorial all over the world. I do not think one can pinpoint the origin of that practice to any specific locality with even a minimal degree of certainty.
Fencing books were popular in Europe for the past several centuries. It is a shame and a sorrow that only Mamluks bothered to compose manuals on military techniques and training. This is why from time to time this Forum and dozens other swordplay-interested groups raise a heated discussion on the use of shamshir or yataghan. As they say, if it is not written, it does not exist.
Crucible steel, indeed, was a mystery, and the europeans were not particularly interested in it, because of their different concept of military structure, artistic value or sanctity of the blade and their scientific/technological thrust, whereby they bypassed wootz in favor of equally good, but infinitely cheaper, quality steel. In the West , wootz remained a curiosity, an Everest that had to be conquered simply because it was there.

However, when in the 19th century the Europeans became interested in crucible steel, there were several articles in specialty journals or full books ( Crivelli, Anosov, Belyaev etc). For that, they ( or their representatives) had to travel to the East to actually observe the manufacturing process, because there was no Indian or Persian written recipe.

Overall, I admire your attempts to research the origins of Omani swords, but disagree with some of your too-far-reaching conclusions.

With best wishes.

[Lew]

Gentlemen

Since there is no real proof that the European style of sword and buckler evolved from Omani style can we just conclude that they evolved separately from each other and leave it at that? It seems to me that that this type of fighting system Was designed with a great deal of strategic thought and basic common sense by both cultures which often used in duels as a way to settle various personal desputes. In my opinion both cultures developed these systems out of necessity in order to deal certain aspects of there warrior based societies.

[Atlantia]

Thought you might be interested in the following.
A relic Kattara showing how the familiar short tang of the 'Kaskara' type trade blade is extended to the Omani block pommel.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I answer Atlantia below...Shukran

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thought you might be interested in the following.
A relic Kattara showing how the familiar short tang of the 'Kaskara' type trade blade is extended to the Omani block pommel.



Salaams Atlantia, We started out on this thread (Kattara for Comment) with the wrong terminology since during the discussion it has been proven that the straight sword is the Sayf and the curved is the Kattara therefor we are looking at a Sayf... and it is very interesting as it is clearly an old version... and as you say a Kaskara conversion. I suppose its a Kaskara- Sayf !
This is a most interesting morph/conversion and we assume it would have been tooled up with an Omani long hilt. I have no idea how to conclude its trade blade provenance or if it is locally made? I think that what we have here, however interesting, is only a converted hilt; no more no less.

I can imagine a Sayf or Kaskara on the edge of the Omani periphery being converted to Sayf, like your example... That is entirely plausible. I would, however, have expected a trail of Omani long Sayf to be scattered down the supply route if they came via the Red Sea or via Africa in great numbers but there are, apparently, none.

Certain publications state the Omani Trade Blade provenance (though I believe they have compounded their error in continuing to copy that mistake) however none of the European people (visitors to Oman) quoted in this thread #164 nor the advisor to government affairs in Zanzibar around 1900(W. H. INGRAMS who was an official advisor to the British governor) nor any mention in "British/French relations in the Indian Ocean" By Dr Sheikh Sultan al Qassimi" which focusses on Muscat, India and Zanzibar spanning the supposed time of the European Trade Blade's appearance..make any reference to European Trade Blades for Oman. No proof exists of blades coming from India, Persia, Sri Lanka, or Yemen despite the older blade carrying the name of Sayf Yamani.
Proof exists of local Omani manufacture though none for imported blades. Not yet.

This is an excellent addition to the thread and is in many ways the essence of what we are looking at ..."The European Trade Blade conundrum". :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Gentlemen

Since there is no real proof that the European style of sword and buckler evolved from Omani style can we just conclude that they evolved separately from each other and leave it at that? It seems to me that that this type of fighting system Was designed with a great deal of strategic thought and basic common sense by both cultures which often used in duels as a way to settle various personal desputes. In my opinion both cultures developed these systems out of necessity in order to deal certain aspects of there warrior based societies.


Salaams Lew,
For now since we are without precise proof of technology transfer from East to West, I think it wise to leave the facts so far discussed on Forum record and with the proviso that should further evidence arise it can be debated afresh.

Bucklers and Swords (Terrs wa Sayf) are inherent in the study of Omani Arms as they were in use against the Abbasids in the 8th Century A.D. and continue today in the traditional "Omani Funun".

Notwithstanding that; the thread develops quite alarmingly with the discovery of a significant Algerian bladestamp mark on what was considered as a Saudia or Yemeni Sayf.

On the table we also have an interesting peripheral "Kaskara-Sayf" from Atlantia.

The main thrust of the discussion, however, turns toward the dilemma of the (Omani) European Trade Blade. Fact or fiction? :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

The main thrust of the discussion, however, turns toward the dilemma of the (Omani) European Trade Blade. Fact or fiction? :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I've previously posted a few examples with blades bearing the running wolf of Passau and later Solingen...

Here, again, one of the more compelling examples. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?64822-is-this-a-good-deal

Keep in mind what I have access to is simply what is online via Google or similar, there are many swords held in private collections around the world by individuals who may have never released photographs online. Chances are there are many more.

Even if some of the wolf marks are local copies, you have to account for where the idea to use the mark came from. Whether period travelers and Europeans present in the area noted it or not, I think it is pretty undeniable European blades were present in the area. But I feel like I've made these points before...

The exact time periods and routes these blades arrived from, are out of my area I'm afraid. But I look forward to those that are continuing to research it.

All the best,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I've previously posted a few examples with blades bearing the running wolf of Passau and later Solingen...

Here, again, one of the more compelling examples. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?64822-is-this-a-good-deal

Keep in mind what I have access to is simply what is online via Google or similar, there are many swords held in private collections around the world by individuals who may have never released photographs online. Chances are there are many more.

Even if some of the wolf marks are local copies, you have to account for where the idea to use the mark came from. Whether period travelers and Europeans present in the area noted it or not, I think it is pretty undeniable European blades were present in the area. But I feel like I've made these points before...

The exact time periods and routes these blades arrived from, are out of my area I'm afraid. But I look forward to those that are continuing to research it.

All the best,

Iain


Salaams Iain, Yes thats fine but they are not Omani European Trade Blades..what they are is African European Trade Blades. They are entirely different blades. The Omani blade of so called approximate 18thC introduction and superceding the Omani Old Battle Sayf is a complete all in one blade hilt pommel steel weapon with fullers (one two or three) moreover it is flexible to 90 degrees returning to straight immediately. Blades like the one at your reference are thicker blades normally ending in a point and not flexible say other than perhaps 10% ~ The addition of the running wolf is interesting and I have seen an Omani blade with a similar mark but caution ... Where was the mark carried out; locally or where? I suspect somewhere in Africa to bolster the price in the case of the African weapons and in the case of the Omani example in the Muscat Museum probably in Oman..and noted in the Museum as a fake mark. The running wolf is after all the simplest to copy. The blade at your reference looks like one of the Saudia, Yemeni (or possibly African)or perhaps Algerian blades I have previously noted and at #1 to this thread and discussed at # 176... mainly concerning Michael Blalocks sword indicating an Algerian provenance to its blademark.
No evidence whatsoever save some comments quite possibly copied in error and duplicated in a few quite prestigious publications in the last century mention anything to do with Omani European Trade Blades... emphasis on Omani since African Trade Blades are well known.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Hi Ibrahiim,

If you want to make that distinction (and I don't worry I understand why because of the functionality needed for the dance you commented on a lot previously :) ) there has to be a reason what you are terming African trade blades are showing up in Omani mounts and while I certainly don't have the cultural insight you have, I am a little lost then as to why, if the flexibility is so important, stiffer blades seem to have been used as well... Is the flexibility what makes the sword truly Omani in your opinion? Because judging from the examples I'm posting there seems to be no problem with Omanis using stiffer blades...

One thought that immediately strikes me is if the flexible blades are a local development from the stiffer general trade blades? And of course that was part of my point with the wolf marks, they are easy to copy and show clear European influence in some of these blades.

Just in case I never added this one earlier in the thread, here's another one that sold a while back at a Czech auction house.

http://www.antiq.cz/aukce/m-n/katalog6-98/en/528.html

[fernando]

These stone sculptures abound in Portugal. At least some thirty of these statues were found in various places, some of them with epigraphic texts. They represent Galaico Lusitanian warriors. Estraban (63-24 BC) writes about the Lusitanians, mentioning that it was said that they were good ambushers and track followers, using shields two feet wide, of concave shape and straped to the body, having no handles... and that these were used together with a dagger or a gladius.

.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,

If you want to make that distinction (and I don't worry I understand why because of the functionality needed for the dance you commented on a lot previously :) ) there has to be a reason what you are terming African trade blades are showing up in Omani mounts and while I certainly don't have the cultural insight you have, I am a little lost then as to why, if the flexibility is so important, stiffer blades seem to have been used as well... Is the flexibility what makes the sword truly Omani in your opinion? Because judging from the examples I'm posting there seems to be no problem with Omanis using stiffer blades...

One thought that immediately strikes me is if the flexible blades are a local development from the stiffer general trade blades? And of course that was part of my point with the wolf marks, they are easy to copy and show clear European influence in some of these blades.

Just in case I never added this one earlier in the thread, here's another one that sold a while back at a Czech auction house.

http://www.antiq.cz/aukce/m-n/katalog6-98/en/528.html


Salaams Iain ... Your reference is like #1 to this thread and could be by origin African Red Sea (Yemeni or Saudia) or related to Mamluke or an Algerian derivative. It apparently has the wolf too... like other examples I have handled the wolf is a diversionary mark intended to hoist the price. The description on your reference states and I quote:

"Sword blade from a cavalry sword, Passau wolf mark in the lower part of the double-edged blade, point rounded later, wooden grip bound with leather and ornamental silver wire, made in central Africa, blade - 16th/17th cent., hilt - early 19th century, length 97 cm, length of blade 78 cm" Unquote.

The information is very sketchy and only half believable. The only thing vaguelly Omani about this Sayf is the hilt. Though I dont have the sword in front of me I can see that it is as the # 1 in style... Thick inflexible blade with a point. Omani blades are by definition spatulate tipped and very springy... as I say a 90 degree bend is normal.

Regarding the New Omani Sayf of circa 18th C and said to be a European Trade Blade ~The vital ingredient of these Omani Sayfs is their flexibility, spatulate tip and on a long hilt. If it is stiff or pointed it is not Omani.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

These stone sculptures abound in Portugal. At least some thirty of these statues were found in various places, some of them with epigraphic texts. They represent Galaico Lusitanian warriors. Estraban (63-24 BC) writes about the Lusitanians, mentioning that it was said that they were good ambushers and track followers, using shields two feet wide, of concave shape and straped to the body, having no handles... and that these were used together with a dagger or a gladius.

.

Salaams fernando ~ I had no idea that the Portuguese were originally Celtic. I note that they were "Romanised" in the second century and wondered if their weapon systems carried on or were superceded by the Roman. I think the Greek short sword is likely to be responsible for the transmission via the Abassids to this peninsula...Oman...via the Abassid garrisoned and fighting here and because the Abbasids were obsessed with everything Greek. Thank you for your input, which is, as always, thought provoking and interesting.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams Iain ... Your reference is like #1 to this thread and could be by origin African Red Sea (Yemeni or Saudia) or related to Mamluke or an Algerian derivative. It apparently has the wolf too... like other examples I have handled the wolf is a diversionary mark intended to hoist the price. The description on your reference states and I quote:

"Sword blade from a cavalry sword, Passau wolf mark in the lower part of the double-edged blade, point rounded later, wooden grip bound with leather and ornamental silver wire, made in central Africa, blade - 16th/17th cent., hilt - early 19th century, length 97 cm, length of blade 78 cm" Unquote.

The information is very sketchy and only half believable. The only thing vaguelly Omani about this Sayf is the hilt. Though I dont have the sword in front of me I can see that it is as the # 1 in style... Thick inflexible blade with a point. Omani blades are by definition spatulate tipped and very springy... as I say a 90 degree bend is normal.

Regarding the New Omani Sayf of circa 18th C and said to be a European Trade Blade ~The vital ingredient of these Omani Sayfs is their flexibility, spatulate tip and on a long hilt. If it is stiff or pointed it is not Omani.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

So just to clarify you are saying the two examples I have just linked (which have rounded tips) are not Omani, meaning they were not used in Oman by Omanis? I think this is an important point to be stated clearly, that unless it's flexible it cannot have anything to do with Oman?

Cheers,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Straight Omani Sayf.

Salaams all, I have not yet seen a single straight Omani Sayf with a European mark on it save one with a fake running wolf mark.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

So just to clarify you are saying the two examples I have just linked (which have rounded tips) are not Omani, meaning they were not used in Oman by Omanis? I think this is an important point to be stated clearly, that unless it's flexible it cannot have anything to do with Oman?

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain, Yes. The stiff examples are not Omani. They are from Saudia, Yemen, Algeria, probably derived from Mamluke...but not Omani.
Ibrahiim.

Afternote ~ That does not rule out a sword being hilted with an Omani long handle and used by an Omani trader, slaver or individual on the African coast in the Zanzibar hub. I am certain you will agree with that possibility though obviously that does not qualify the weapon as Omani proper. I think they qualify as hybrid being a crossbreed of the above styles.

[Iain]

Please delete. Was answered above.

[Atlantia]

So just to clarify you are saying the two examples I have just linked (which have rounded tips) are not Omani, meaning they were not used in Oman by Omanis? I think this is an important point to be stated clearly, that unless it's flexible it cannot have anything to do with Oman?

Cheers,

Iain


I have to agree that some clarity is needed here Ibrahiim.
Could I expand on Iain's request and ask that for those who haven't followed this epic threads many pages as closely as those heavily involved, could we (I) possibly have a summary of the points that you are proposing, set out as concise and short a list as possible?

Thanks
Gene

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have to agree that some clarity is needed here Ibrahiim.
Could I expand on Iain's request and ask that for those who haven't followed this epic threads many pages as closely as those heavily involved, could we (I) possibly have a summary of the points that you are proposing, set out as concise and short a list as possible?

Thanks
Gene


Salaams Gene ... If you read back through the thread you will see I do that at intervals since this is as you point out somewhat complicated.

I believe it may be enlightening to look at Michael Blalocks thread in unison at his Arabian Swords # 1 where the Red Sea interloper sword is pictured cased in a Yemeni military museum.

Meanwhile I will outline the arguement tomorrow as its near midnight here... and hopefully set the position straight... On the straight Sayf !
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[fernando]

... I had no idea that the Portuguese were originally Celtic. ...
So you never wondered how we have some regions where they play the bagpipe :eek:

... I note that they were "Romanised" in the second century ...
Did you say "Romanized" or "Omanized" ? ... just a joke :eek:
Quite a few folks, since Naenderthal and followed by Modern man, stood in the queue to leave their ADN in the Peninsula ... some more to the South, others more to the North and even others by the Coast, like the Phoenitians in Balsa, now called Tavira, in Southern Portugal.

... and wondered if their weapon systems carried on or were superceded by the Roman.
The usual swaps, as always happens when a people crosses with another. One that became quite famous was what the Romans admired and called Gladius Hispaniensis (at the time they named the whole Peninsula as Hispania). This was the so called Falcata Iberica (Ensis Flacatus); its eficiency in combat and its temper were so good that it took the Romans to reinforce their shield rims and body armour, during the second Punic wars and later conquest of Hispania. It is highly probable that their Gladius had its later structure and form influenced by this Iberian sword.
I am too lazy to search what weaponry we might have copied from the Romans, besides their influence in all other fields ... house roof tiles, roads, aqueducts, you name it. [/QUOTE]

... I think the Greek short sword is likely to be responsible for the transmission via the Abassids to this peninsula ...
If you are referring to the kopis, such actually wasn't brought over as, swords of this (sickle) type, were developed in various regions by local initiative, as also happened with the Nepalese Kukri.

... the Abbasids were obsessed with everything Greek...
The Arabs only came around by the 8th century, after another long queue, starting by the Romans and, after their decadence, a series of Germanic branches, Suevos, Vandals and lately the Visigods.
But naturally we adopted some of their weapon shapes and possible entire models. Moor cavalry performance and weapon resources were one of the best. In the other fields, i wonder if their influence was even greater than that of the Romans ... Agriculture, Irrigation, Fruit variety, Medicine, Poetry, to name a few.

... Thank you for your input...
Nothing to thank for. My post was only a small addition to what was said by Ariel and Lew in that, parrying devices (shields, bucklers) were used by all men during all time, each one according to their intuition.

Sorry guys, for the extensive fait divers ... and for delocalizing a bit the epicenter of the topic :o .

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

So you never wondered how we have some regions where they play the bagpipe :eek:


Did you say "Romanized" or "Omanized" ? ... just a joke :eek:
Quite a few folks, since Naenderthal and followed by Modern man, stood in the queue to leave their ADN in the Peninsula ... some more to the South, others more to the North and even others by the Coast, like the Phoenitians in Balsa, now called Tavira, in Southern Portugal.


The usual swaps, as always happens when a people crosses with another. One that became quite famous was what the Romans admired and called Gladius Hispaniensis (at the time they named the whole Peninsula as Hispania). This was the so called Falcata Iberica (Ensis Flacatus); its eficiency in combat and its temper were so good that it took the Romans to reinforce their shield rims and body armour, during the second Punic wars and later conquest of Hispania. It is highly probable that their Gladius had its later structure and form influenced by this Iberian sword.
I am too lazy to search what weaponry we might have copied from the Romans, besides their influence in all other fields ... house roof tiles, roads, aqueducts, you name it.


If you are referring to the kopis, such actually wasn't brought over as, swords of this (sickle) type, were developed in various regions by local initiative, as also happened with the Nepalese Kukri.


The Arabs only came around by the 8th century, after another long queue, starting by the Romans and, after their decadence, a series of Germanic branches, Suevos, Vandals and lately the Visigods.
But naturally we adopted some of their weapon shapes and possible entire models. Moor cavalry performance and weapon resources were one of the best. In the other fields, i wonder if their influence was even greater than that of the Romans ... Agriculture, Irrigation, Fruit variety, Medicine, Poetry, to name a few.


Nothing to thank for. My post was only a small addition to what was said by Ariel and Lew in that, parrying devices (shields, bucklers) were used by all men during all time, each one according to their intuition.

Sorry guys, for the extensive fait divers ... and for delocalizing a bit the epicenter of the topic :o .

Salaams Fernando,
Once again we are endebted for this interesting excursion, however, as Lew and I have both indicated; the Terrs and Sayf insofar as technology transfer is concerned is a bridge too far at this time.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all. As a note to Forum as an update I advise the following?;

* The Straight Omani Sword is called Sayf.
* The Curved Omani sword is called Kattara.

The Omani Sayf has two parts to its life:
1. As an old Omani Battle Sword (Sayf) (affectionately known as Sayf Yamani) with turned down quillons pointed pommel short handle, stiff thick wing-like in "cross section blade construction" and pointed. This was a stab-slash-chop weapon, reigning supreme in Oman since arguably the mid 8thC AD (751)and in the Abbasid Style... until it was "apparently" superceded by a European Trade Blade in approximately the 18thC. A.D.
Both systems used the Buckler Shield. Both are called Sayf.

2. As the 18thC European Trade Blade replacement weapon and retaining the Buckler Shield inherriting the name Sayf; The sword was very different from its fore runner and comprised of a Tang Pommel and Long Blade as "all in one" construction and very flexible... bending almost through 90 degrees from the point and spatula tipped on a very long handle. No quillons. This was a slash and snick weapon. It continues to be produced locally today.

Vital to the understanding of the weapons history is the method by which it was passed down the generations through the Funoon an enacted pageant comprising life events; trade, farming, seafaring and war.

The flexible sword introduced at 2 above fell into that category of parade and dance item required in the Funoon pageant whilst retaining a fighting style and mimiced as a kind of combat form in the funoon called Razha and Ayaalah.. or sword dance. An exponent must be able to move quickly and buzz the sword by various ingenious flicks of the wrist where the blade can be used almost like a whip and when used as a group creates a very menacing ritual. Important that a blade be flexible and not stiff. When selecting a sword the first thing an exponent looks for is the flexibility... Trying to make a stiff sword hum and buzz is impossible ...
If its not flexible its not an Omani Sayf of approx. 18th C or after.

Swords coming from the Egyptian Mamluke era down the Red Sea and influencing Saudia and Yemeni weapons look similar to Omani Sayf but as recorded in the Yemeni Military Museum by Michael Blalocks Arabian Swords #1 they are thick inflexible blades and pointed. Similar blades are at # 47 and # 81 of this thread. I believe that this is purely coincidental and in keeping with Abassid> Mamluke >Ottoman technology copy.

I have examined the gunmark upon an Algerian weapon at this thread #176 and it is identical in form to the Michael Blalock item which in turn is similar to the weapon at # 1 on this thread. Though on reflection I think that one is Omani with odd out of area stamps; probably fake. They may be Red Sea hybrids but they are not Omani. I will repeat my comment that this does not mean that an Omani person did not own or use a variant transferred to an Omani long handle but that that type of sword is not of Oman. Rehilting does not automatically change the ethnographic origin of a sword if at all..

It is known that European Trade Blades flooded into Africa and many examples exist, however, no proof other than mention of European Trade Blades in Oman from various sources and publications (which I believe are entirely routinely plagiarisms of fact copied by authors and museums for the last 200 years)

This debate therefor runs into a conundrum. 18thC Omani Sayf; European Trade Blades; Fact or Fiction?

On Fact;
I find nothing to substantiate the theory that Oman imported European Trade Blades except in the reference books noted above and verbatum rolling out of same same theory from museums and others.

On Fiction;
1. No genuine European Sword Blade Marks have yet been found on any Omani Sayf viewed. Conversely many blades have local marks and or copies of Raj stamps. The odd weapon has a running woolf at Muscat Museum though it is fake.
2. No actual literature providing proof exists.
3. None of the visiting European dignatories mentioned in this thread and over the last two centuries have ever mentioned European Trade Blades when confronted by Omani Sayf... and the advisor to the Governor at Zanzibar from about 1900 though he mentions Omani Swordsmen and the dancing routine does not substantiate their origin. Surely he would have known?
4. No peripheral signs ~ The Red Sea variants are totally different; being thick, pointy and unflexible save for perhaps 5 degree bendability. Should we not expect to find Omani Swords littering the museums and souks in the Red Sea area? European Trade Blades are scattered all over Africa but Omani Sayf...nowhere else except Oman.
5. Local manufacture is proven in Ras Al Khaimah and Al Ain and likely to be substantial in Nizwa well known for smelting copper and well advanced in bellows useage for iron and steel items and agricultural tools. If they were making Sayf here why would they need imported weapons?
6. As a statement of pure conjecture I feel that a sword which had gained Iconic and virtual Heraldic symbolism up to about 200 years ago ~ and having been a system in place previously for 1000 years or more ~ for it to be suddenly replaced by a European Trade Blade makes no sense to me at all. Therefor I add that as a comment to the bewildering nature in this conundrum now at the core of research on the subject.. :shrug:

Pictured below are the Old Sayf, centre, with turned down quillons flanked by the new version in the 18thC format.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; It seems that there were actually 2 blades replacing the old Sayf : One in the 17th C (perhaps) and the other in the 18thC debated here. It seems that the 17th C blade(which I have not found an example of yet) was a thin variant of the old blade and was fitted to the old hilt. Whilst this may turn out to be myth I mention it as a note.

[Iain]

Thanks for clarifying your position Ibrahiim.

Just a couple questions for you, just to stimulation the discussion, I am neither on one side of the fence or the other on your question of trade blades, I just find the discussion interesting, so please don't take this as an attack on your research. I realized we've discussed some of these issues before but as you posted a new summary I think it is important to come back to them.

If not for outside European influences who do local versions of the running wolf occur, like this example which should be, by your definition I think a "real and local" Omani sayf: http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1971

How would you account for the use of triple fullers and half moon stamps like on this example: http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2700 Features in other African sword forms derived directly from European trade blades.

Why would the older short sayf form be replaced at all if not for a dramatic outside influence? If the tradition and symbolism of the original sword was so important? Why else would it suddenly change?

Can you maybe explain for us why flexibility would be important in a sayf not just for the dance but also combat? A lot of your definition hangs on this point and I am unsure of how far back it is possible to accurately trace this preference for flexible blades? Is it not possible the preference for flexibility and the buzzing sound is a more modern (by modern I mean as the sword declined in importance for combat as firearms took over) requirement due to the dance aspect? I would be surprised if in earlier periods the need for the sword to buzz when swung would be considered over steel quality.

Perhaps a good way to sum up what I am trying to say is, could it perhaps be said that the long sayf, flexible form, are not European trade blades, but a local imitation of trade blades, adapted to be flexible and fulfill the requirements of the Razha and Ayaalah?

I am not an expert in the hilts of the region but I find it very odd to assume that based on blade flexibility alone everything with an actual trade blade could be conclusively written off as not Omani while the genuine Omani swords retain many of the exact same features (fullers and stamps) as the trade blades. At some point for flexible blades, influenced by trade blades, to be made, someone had to think the original trade blades had a lot of good features...

Just some points to think about.

All the best,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks for clarifying your position Ibrahiim.

Just a couple questions for you, just to stimulation the discussion, I am neither on one side of the fence or the other on your question of trade blades, I just find the discussion interesting, so please don't take this as an attack on your research. I realized we've discussed some of these issues before but as you posted a new summary I think it is important to come back to them.

If not for outside European influences who do local versions of the running wolf occur, like this example which should be, by your definition I think a "real and local" Omani sayf: http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1971

How would you account for the use of triple fullers and half moon stamps like on this example: http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2700 Features in other African sword forms derived directly from European trade blades.

Why would the older short sayf form be replaced at all if not for a dramatic outside influence? If the tradition and symbolism of the original sword was so important? Why else would it suddenly change?

Can you maybe explain for us why flexibility would be important in a sayf not just for the dance but also combat? A lot of your definition hangs on this point and I am unsure of how far back it is possible to accurately trace this preference for flexible blades? Is it not possible the preference for flexibility and the buzzing sound is a more modern (by modern I mean as the sword declined in importance for combat as firearms took over) requirement due to the dance aspect? I would be surprised if in earlier periods the need for the sword to buzz when swung would be considered over steel quality.

Perhaps a good way to sum up what I am trying to say is, could it perhaps be said that the long sayf, flexible form, are not European trade blades, but a local imitation of trade blades, adapted to be flexible and fulfill the requirements of the Razha and Ayaalah?

I am not an expert in the hilts of the region but I find it very odd to assume that based on blade flexibility alone everything with an actual trade blade could be conclusively written off as not Omani while the genuine Omani swords retain many of the exact same features (fullers and stamps) as the trade blades. At some point for flexible blades, influenced by trade blades, to be made, someone had to think the original trade blades had a lot of good features...

Just some points to think about.

All the best,

Iain
Salaams Iain and thank you for some excellent observations ! Last point first; This is a vital point " To perform the Funoon the blade has to be flexible" ie if it is a stiff inflexible blade it is not Omani. On balance probably Yemeni possibly Saudia or even Algerian and likely to be Mamluke influenced. In the Sayf it does have fullers which make the sword lighter and more flexible... and stamps though none which are other than Omani origin... except fakes.. done to raise the price or for prestige. I dont see any trade blade examples which the Omanis may have copied as they are so different...being tang pommel and blade in a specific Omani format...

If they are not European Trade Blades they must be either local or from somewhere close...I look at India, Sri Lanka, Persia and Yemen without success ... yet.. though if I was to hazzard a guess I would say maybe Yemen fits the cloak or more logically Oman itself ie Nizwa !

Flexibility.. As I say this is parmount in importance. Certainly this is a good point since for example comparing plain steel with wootz which is not used save for a few omani Sayf that RSWORD knows of that I put down to dignatories and or merchants having commissioned from wootz centres say Hyderabad or elsewhere.(and RSWORD will tell you there may well be more of these hidden under unpolished blades.) The Omanis dont seem to have bothered with wootz on either Swords or Khanjars. The flexible razor sharp whip bladed springy steel Sayf seemed to be the form.
The point about its decline as a fighting weapon and its preference as more of a Pageantry and symbolic display is key however I have no idea on precise timescale but suggest late 1700 early 1800 as the beginning of the new system which could have been gradual say over 50 to 100 years. Certainly both old and new Sayfs were Iconic and seen on pictures earlier in this thread on various Sultans waists into the 20th C..

Why would the older short sayf form be replaced ~ That baffles me as well. The only ideas I have on that is tied into the pageantry aspect and because there werent enough old swords left... and they were difficult to produce. I see the old sword overlapping into the new sword timescale by perhaps 150 years or more... I imagine a gradual swing to the new "dancing blade".

Fullers and moon stamps. Fullering was a common enough technical advance in sword making so I see no reason why the Omanis didn't cotton on to the idea via trade etc. Moons are Islamic though I dont see them on Omani Sayf much as I recall.. but often on Red Sea variants.

Meanwhile I look up your references:
The first http://oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1971 is an Omani Sayf ! not a Kattara and it carries a fake stamp running woolf. It is Omani with fullers.

Your second reference is another Omani Sayf (not a Kattara... Kattaras are curved) It has 3 fullers and a peculiar two moon strike that I have never seen before but which are probably fake.

Both the weapons are Omani Sayf ... Flexible long bladed, long hilts and neither carrying any proof of origin to European Trade Blades since the marks are likely fakes.

Shukran.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Hi Ibrahiim,

Your points are clear and I'm glad you are acknowledging the flexibility issue is driven by dance not combat needs. I think since you aren't sure of a timeline, that perhaps you are assigning this need to a far earlier period than necessary.

Do you have or have you examined a circa 18th century flexible long sayf blade? Pictures?

I think by assuming the flexibility requirement goes that far back you are removing the key evidence for the long form sayf.

Regarding if hilting a blade changes the ethnicity, I would say yes, because it means the sword was accepted into that ethnicity. Otherwise there is no way to include European blades into your Omani sayf definition at all - you have ruled them out with your criteria. That's why I would say I have a takouba with a European blade, the hilting turns it into a takouba and a sword of the Hausa/Tuareg/Fulani/whatever. Hilting is the process of adopting a blade locally.

Regarding fullers and marks:

On marks, there is no reason to make them to enhance the perceived value of the blade if the original European blades were not already in use and perceived as valuable. So if we have flexible blades with fake marks it clearly points out the fact that the original European blades were respected and desired locally - otherwise no reason to copy the marks. So I don't really care if the marks are fake or not, they wouldn't exist if Omanis were using European blades and associating the marks with quality. If there was no trade blade influence, you wouldn't find the marks at all, there would be no reason for Omani smiths to copy them. Are there marks on the short old sayf type in the same style? Not that I've ever seen, somehow and from somewhere the idea to start using blade marks arrived.

Fullers, the triple fuller configuration in conjunction with the half moon stamps (and these half moons have a face which I do not believe is a typical Islamic illustration?) are a very well known pattern. That it would appear in Oman, at roughly the same time period as the Sahel and other areas, in exactly the same pattern, without being directly related to the European imports, really seems to defy logic. Just too many coincidences. This matches up exactly with the examples I linked and you acknowledge are Omani.

I realize your skepticism has a sound base in having not found any European blades in swords that are Omani in your system, but I have to think this is only because you have set the criteria in your system in such a way that you will never find any because you are not counting the stiffer blades. We've already seen at least one example of how the tangs and long hilts are combined on trade blades.

The way you've structured the progression there is a hole in the transition from a pretty specific style of short sword to a long blade with some pretty striking characteristics which happen to line up perfectly with European blades found in the area, except for stiffness. Remove the reliance on having to say an Omani blade flexes to around 90 degrees (by the way do the short swords do this?) and you remove the hole and have a clear progression where elements of European trade blades were copied into a new Omani form that provided the flexibility needed for the dance.

I really just don't see how there is any other conclusion for fake wolf stamps, triple fullers with twin moon stamps and the like popping up in Omani swords, not to mention a switch to a sword length that matches up nicely with the European exports.

For me the issue is not in finding the mythical flexible long form sayf export blade from Europe, but in understanding why and how that form was developed locally and what influences led to the dramatic change in form.

As always, just some friendly ideas and comments.

All the best,

Iain

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

Before it falls through the cracks.....

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Before it falls through the cracks.....


Salaams freebooter is there a stamp on the blade?

This is the classic old Omani stiff pointed short sword...Sayf..Tied to the origin of species at 751 AD and rolling on for over 1000 years. Local name for the Omani Short ... Sayf Yamani.

The forerunner to the flexible sword. Both called Sayf and both using the Terrs shield.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I have two like this with no stamp. I suspect Yemen as the manufacturing base or Nizwa... Investigating the latter now. The 3 holes in the hilt for securing the hilt to a wooden core whilst the 3rd near the octagonal pommel for a wriststrap. See my comparison on this thread to the Abassid weapon.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,

Your points are clear and I'm glad you are acknowledging the flexibility issue is driven by dance not combat needs. I think since you aren't sure of a timeline, that perhaps you are assigning this need to a far earlier period than necessary.

Do you have or have you examined a circa 18th century flexible long sayf blade? Pictures?

I think by assuming the flexibility requirement goes that far back you are removing the key evidence for the long form sayf.

Regarding if hilting a blade changes the ethnicity, I would say yes, because it means the sword was accepted into that ethnicity. Otherwise there is no way to include European blades into your Omani sayf definition at all - you have ruled them out with your criteria. That's why I would say I have a takouba with a European blade, the hilting turns it into a takouba and a sword of the Hausa/Tuareg/Fulani/whatever. Hilting is the process of adopting a blade locally.

Regarding fullers and marks:

On marks, there is no reason to make them to enhance the perceived value of the blade if the original European blades were not already in use and perceived as valuable. So if we have flexible blades with fake marks it clearly points out the fact that the original European blades were respected and desired locally - otherwise no reason to copy the marks. So I don't really care if the marks are fake or not, they wouldn't exist if Omanis were using European blades and associating the marks with quality. If there was no trade blade influence, you wouldn't find the marks at all, there would be no reason for Omani smiths to copy them. Are there marks on the short old sayf type in the same style? Not that I've ever seen, somehow and from somewhere the idea to start using blade marks arrived.

Fullers, the triple fuller configuration in conjunction with the half moon stamps (and these half moons have a face which I do not believe is a typical Islamic illustration?) are a very well known pattern. That it would appear in Oman, at roughly the same time period as the Sahel and other areas, in exactly the same pattern, without being directly related to the European imports, really seems to defy logic. Just too many coincidences. This matches up exactly with the examples I linked and you acknowledge are Omani.

I realize your skepticism has a sound base in having not found any European blades in swords that are Omani in your system, but I have to think this is only because you have set the criteria in your system in such a way that you will never find any because you are not counting the stiffer blades. We've already seen at least one example of how the tangs and long hilts are combined on trade blades.

The way you've structured the progression there is a hole in the transition from a pretty specific style of short sword to a long blade with some pretty striking characteristics which happen to line up perfectly with European blades found in the area, except for stiffness. Remove the reliance on having to say an Omani blade flexes to around 90 degrees (by the way do the short swords do this?) and you remove the hole and have a clear progression where elements of European trade blades were copied into a new Omani form that provided the flexibility needed for the dance.

I really just don't see how there is any other conclusion for fake wolf stamps, triple fullers with twin moon stamps and the like popping up in Omani swords, not to mention a switch to a sword length that matches up nicely with the European exports.

For me the issue is not in finding the mythical flexible long form sayf export blade from Europe, but in understanding why and how that form was developed locally and what influences led to the dramatic change in form.

As always, just some friendly ideas and comments.

All the best,

Iain

Salaams Iain ~ I agree with most of your post. You are correct in assuming my scepticism since I have not found a single piece of evidence that a European Trade Blade exists in Oman.

Much of the discussion revolves around what you say and is as yet largely unresolved. The important thing for me is to keep an open mind since there is such fragile evidence for local manufacture and even less scant clue as to the European Trade Blade import story.

Fake Stamps. The Muscat Museum insists that the woolf stamp on their 19th C Long Omani Sayf is fake. I believe it is . I have seen other fake stamps on the thick blade variants from what I believe is Yemeni/Saudia sword identical to the one shown in the Yemeni Military Museum. Faking blade marks is legion here... I would say the majority of swords here carry fake markings. As I say prestige and price are likely candidates. I show a swathe of fake marks on this thread Raj Crowns, God is Great, stars et al on #98... they are nearly all shoved on for show or to fake provenance or raise the price. Odd in its own right since thay are true Omani Swords but left to individual swordmakers they seem to think it makes the item more attractive (there is something in that from the cosmetic viewpoint). I handled a sword in Muscat Souk for which I have a photo and that too was a Red Sea job fake marked with the easily copied passau woolf. It only requires a decent chisel and a mallet and its about 15 small strikes to copy.. as you know the mark is quite randomly done even on originals so it is a cinch to copy..

Timescale. Naturally this is a vital question but is as yet not pinpointed, though, you will see quotes on this thread from European visitors mentioning the blades likeness to Scotish claymores...at the Hormus Garrison in the early 1800s etc. viz;

1.In 1878 a Mr Geary (editor of the Times of India) visited Muscat and wrote of the weapons he saw carried by locals ~ A favourite weapon is a straight broad two-handed sword, the sweep of which would take off a man's thigh or even cut him in two at the waist.The swordsmen carried over their shoulder small shields of rhinoceros horn 8 or 9 inches in diameter....

2.Captain James Welstead in 1835 at Jalaan Bani Bu Ali (on the Eastern edge of the Wahaybah) remarked on the Funoon, Razha, sword parade and dance that the blades of their swords are 3 feet in length, straight, thin, double edged and as sharp as a razor.

3.Mr Frazer who also visited Hormuz in 1821 (and Oman at the same time as Welstead in about 1835) described The Omani Garrison at Hormuz swords as similar to Scotish Broadswords and also described separately in Oman later the Ters buckler shields..


Flexibility of blade. Vital. Not flexible not Omani and must be spatulate tipped not pointed ~ To date I have not handled a stiff dancing blade (my terminology since I can see how lethal they are as fighting swords also). Old blades Sayf Yamani are completely stiff and pointed. Is it simply down to fashion that bendy blades took over...in a suggested broad timescale of say 150 years...and a new fighting and dancing technique was cemented in behind that?

European Trade Blade or European Trade Blade Influence. There is a huge difference. I have been fed the Trade Blade theory of ships camel trains etc bringing great quantities of German blades to Oman and either direct or via one of the hubs possibly Zanzibar. For proof I continue to search and if a single jot appears I will report on that. As it stands at the moment it looks like a myth !

Parallel with investigating imports I must also look for local manufacture. (it could be both) The timescale is as baffling to me as the unbelievable change in style.. All we know is that it happened.

From what you are saying ~ It seems logical that a way out for the long stiff blades may be as an interim blade between the Old Omani Short and the Long flexible item. Though I bear this in mind it does only seem to be in Red Sea variants which I associate with Mamluke, Saudia, Yemeni variants and with the addition of my earlier evidence showing possible Algerian influence/manufacture.

If it is proven that the Omani European Trade Blade is a myth could it be that the Omanis copied a long blade Red Sea variant into their history books...and gave it a flexible blade and spatulate tip? :eek:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

If it is proven that the Omani European Trade Blade is a myth could it be that the Omanis copied a long blade Red Sea variant into their history books...and gave it a flexible blade and spatulate tip? :eek:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

This seems the only logical way to approach the issue to me. If the flexible blades weren't imported, and it seems they weren't. Then you have to account for:

Fake stamps, obviously copied from European stamps and only introduced into the local Omani swords because the stamps represented something that was respected and recognized locally

Style of fullers and blade length

Presence of typical trade blades in surrounding areas

dramatic change in style and adoption of a totally new sword form corresponding closely with European trade blade profiles

I'm still interested in the sayfs with genuine trade blades that I've linked before, previously you discounted them as Omani based only on the blades, but is there a way to distinguish the hilts regionally? Perhaps I misunderstood you previous comments on them but it seemed you were saying they couldn't be Omani not based on the hilts, but because the blades were stiff.

I'm still not convinced the stiff blades weren't in use in Oman. As you said, the old short sword has a stiff blade, so there's no reason an Omani would object to a stiff European blade...

Basically it seems to me the most logical answer is that the flexible blades are designed to fit the dance (which is not to say they still wouldn't deliver a nasty cut, I'm sure they do!) and were adapted from European trade blades already present in the region. From the quotes you included in your last post it would seem these local flexible blades would have been in use by the early 1800s.

I think that's the most that can be said from the available data. Probably we are never going to agree entirely but I think we are getting closer. :)

There is no need to look for a flexible Omani specific trade blade probably.

Cheers,

Iain

[Gavin Nugent]

Salaams freebooter is there a stamp on the blade?

This is the classic old Omani stiff pointed short sword...Sayf..Tied to the origin of species at 751 AD and rolling on for over 1000 years. Local name for the Omani Short ... Sayf Yamani.

The forerunner to the flexible sword. Both called Sayf and both using the Terrs shield.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I have two like this with no stamp. I suspect Yemen as the manufacturing base or Nizwa... Investigating the latter now. The 3 holes in the hilt for securing the hilt to a wooden core whilst the 3rd near the octagonal pommel for a wriststrap. See my comparison on this thread to the Abassid weapon.

Dear Ibrahiim, I have simply provided the images from a previous link posted...the sword is I believe Ariels :shrug:

There sabre version of the Oman sword has been discussed as perhaps being influenced by EU and Caucasian blades.
Was silverwork on these sabres also "perhaps" influenced through this trade? I ask as I have a fine Omani sabre with the correct "native" blade that has silverwork in the style of, although not executed as well as Dagestan silver work found on some Shashka.

Thanks for a wonderful and sometimes mindblowing in depth discussion.

Gav

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim, I have simply provided the images from a previous link posted...the sword is I believe Ariels :shrug:

There sabre version of the Oman sword has been discussed as perhaps being influenced by EU and Caucasian blades.
Was silverwork on these sabres also "perhaps" influenced through this trade? I ask as I have a fine Omani sabre with the correct "native" blade that has silverwork in the style of, although not executed as well as Dagestan silver work found on some Shashka.

Thanks for a wonderful and sometimes mindblowing in depth discussion.

Gav

Salaams Gav~ Last point first; Omani Silver. Down the ages many countries have influenced Omani Design including Greek, Viking(Early traders in the Med ) adjacent Arab countries and in particular Indian influence on the Oman Coast. Omani silver also contains coins from European countries mainly Austrian and occasionally French Napoleonic coins plus Indian Rupees...As to the silver on the sword We need a photo please? I doubt the Caucaz silver style link ...

I have seen and discussed the possible link connecting Omani Swords to Caucas but that appears on a different weapon altogether from the Sayf being discussed and is clearly a fact. I have a few of those blades but there is no link between them and the so called European Trade Blade i.e. The Omani Long flexible SAYF that I can find.

The old Omani Sayf which apparently Ariel has did appear to have a stamp and I have asked for that previously to be shown clearly so we can examine that but it has not appeared as yet...Perhaps Ariel may be able to show that. It carries the local name Sayf Yamani. I am looking at two ideas; firstly that it was made in the Yemen and secondly that it was made in Nizwa or both or neither. We may never know. A clear view of the stamp would help.

As a spanner in the works there appears to have been a late quite thin blade replacement given to the old hilt perhaps 17th C which I have seen in the Muscat Souk last year(though I ignored that) and I saw a few years ago.

It is on the hit list. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This seems the only logical way to approach the issue to me. If the flexible blades weren't imported, and it seems they weren't. Then you have to account for:

Fake stamps, obviously copied from European stamps and only introduced into the local Omani swords because the stamps represented something that was respected and recognized locally

Style of fullers and blade length

Presence of typical trade blades in surrounding areas

dramatic change in style and adoption of a totally new sword form corresponding closely with European trade blade profiles

I'm still interested in the sayfs with genuine trade blades that I've linked before, previously you discounted them as Omani based only on the blades, but is there a way to distinguish the hilts regionally? Perhaps I misunderstood you previous comments on them but it seemed you were saying they couldn't be Omani not based on the hilts, but because the blades were stiff.

I'm still not convinced the stiff blades weren't in use in Oman. As you said, the old short sword has a stiff blade, so there's no reason an Omani would object to a stiff European blade...

Basically it seems to me the most logical answer is that the flexible blades are designed to fit the dance (which is not to say they still wouldn't deliver a nasty cut, I'm sure they do!) and were adapted from European trade blades already present in the region. From the quotes you included in your last post it would seem these local flexible blades would have been in use by the early 1800s.

I think that's the most that can be said from the available data. Probably we are never going to agree entirely but I think we are getting closer. :)

There is no need to look for a flexible Omani specific trade blade probably.

Cheers,

Iain


Salaams Iain ~ The flexible long blade will slice an arm off easily. It can deliver slash and snick damage to vital areas in a flash... life expectancy is about 3 cuts and 3 minutes to lose all your blood ! It is a lethal weapon. Hooked up to a fight style I recognise this as a very formidable sword. It just happens to fit the other profile as well i.e. brilliant for dancing with...

The hypothesis looks a bit like this~ Oman had an old battle sword but in about the 18thC another sword style caught their attention; perhaps the Mamluke derivative coming down the Red Sea used in Yemen (Omans southern neighbour and or Algeria and Saudia etc)~Perhaps the Old Sword had outlived its purpose and became redundant because no one could make them anymore or gunpowder had made them redundant.

Could it be that the big heavy non flexing pointed Red Sea sword needed modifying for the smaller in stature Omanis?

It needed to be lighter. Therefore it was fullered and made thin at the point which then became redundant so it was spatula tipped.
To reflect the old weapon it was straight and double razor edged.
It certainly didn't need a quillon system though it can be argued that the cuff is retained in the long hilt.
It had to be a long hilt to balance the long blade.
The pommel weight balance was the final balance needed and in some theres a hole probably to take a wrist cord.
The long flat conical hilt perhaps reflects the old pommel Islamic arch design.
It made total sense to make the weapon as a one piece pommel tang and blade since with the older sword the weak point is vibration up the handle which on the new system is all but eradicated.
Finally it was matched to a quick style using the Terrs Buckler shield linked into the Traditional Funoon pageant and given the same name... Sayf.
Gradually possibly over 150 years the old sayf died out though was itself iconic; seen on the waist of a Sultan Bargash circa1890 at #25 on this thread.

Finally it is plausible that some Omani trader linked in with a European/Indian factory to knock the blades out in larger numbers though without blade stamps. Since then local production has continued. :shrug:

I caution, however, since hypothesis in historical research is a dangerous road to go down. Forum demands proof. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Hi Ibrahiim,

The hypothesis is starting to sound pretty reasonable to me. Unfortunately in any type of historical research you are often not going to find absolute proof - although I certainly hope you do. :)

Cheers,

Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,

The hypothesis is starting to sound pretty reasonable to me. Unfortunately in any type of historical research you are often not going to find absolute proof - although I certainly hope you do. :)

Cheers,

Iain


Salaams Iain .. We have the weapon... we know who used it... but can we find out who made it and when? :confused: :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all,

Detail you cannot see at #25 on this thread is the style of hilt on the Sultan Bargash Old Omani Sayf however~ heres one~ From the Book by Richardson and Dorr; "The Craft Heritage of Oman" ~ Forum please note the identical style on the Royal Khanjar at the thread "The Omani Khanjar"#1 by Ibrahiim al Balooshi:shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

I have been away from this fascinating thread for a while, and spent the better part of yesterday rereading, checking sources and notes and trying to absorb the basic course of these amazing discussions. This thread has become almost 'textbook' in the serious study of an indiginous weapon form and it is outstanding to see these kinds of approaches to learning from these weapons. As we have been seeing there are several instances of focus on particular weapons in this depth, and while commending Ibrahiim on this with the kattara I would be remiss in not recognizing the amazing work done by Iain in his study of the takouba, which has now brought in the kaskara and joined by Chris.
What is so important about this is that we are virtually joining forces in these studies and recognizing the powerful connection between these weapons and thier place in the vast trade networks which are key in the development of these forms.

I would like to add a few of my own observations and perspectives in the case of the thread topic, and the kattara, and try to reestablish my understandings thus far.

I think we agree that the 'old form' of Omani sword (thank you Ibrahiim for the post with example with its silvered sheathing, the first I have seen!) is a quite old form which may reflect early types of hilt in interior Omani regions. While we can presume this style hilt may reflect Abbasid styles of the 8th century, if I understand correctly we are uncertain of the exact form used as hilts surviving are not extant and as far as I know there are no iconographic sources reflecting these hilts. It is well established that in virtually all cases as seen by the swords in Yucel, early blades survive but the mounts are almost always newer. Blades as we know were remounted and reused through many generations, while even larger numbers were probably recycled as steel was valuable.

By the latter 18th century, trade had as noted long fluorished in Oman with Muscat the key market for the Persian Gulf, and Sultan bin Ahmad allied with Great Britain in thier treaty in 1798, pledging to help protect British interests in India. Trade between Africa and Oman was active and the EIC established a trade station in the Gulf under their auspices.
I would point out that in this very time, England was having issues with the abundance of trade blades from Germany which was contested by the English makers. Many German blades began being diverted to other markets which included North Africa by the early years of the 19th century. This simply augmented already well established systems of trade blades headed there long before, but more blades undoubtedly entered the Red Sea trade and by there into Arabian networks.

The fact that it is difficult to find examples of trade blades in present times still extant in examples of these sayfs is not at all surprising, given the fact that these swords often ended up leaving the regions in trade or recycled as they became old and worn. With the advent of military campaigns, colonialism, and of course tourism, souveniers and collecting these have largely disappeared into other contexts. Even in the Sudan during the British campaigns of the 1880s, so many native weapons had been consumed by souvenier hunting that a cottage industry creating more began...many of the components for these 'native' weapons were produced in England!

Actually, despite what is found in examples in these modern times, the vestiges of the once present European examples and thier subsequent African produced counterparts certainly were at some point earlier there in some degree.
I am not sure that I can accept a sword hilt style which was established so distinctly that its form became incorporated into a religious icon and so much so that it remained unchanged for 1000 years. As we know over time styles and decoration on everything changes in most cases, even in degree with traditional items particularly in religious context, but even such symbolic instances change no matter how subtly.
We are also well aware of 'revival' styles in weaponry and atavistic application in many forms. The swords rehilted in Istanbul in the 16th century are presumed to reflect early styles of the most revered periods in early Islam.

We then consider the evolution of the cylindrical hilt which if I understand correctly developed around the 18th century and seems oriented primarily in coastal regions of Muscat. The Sultanate of Oman extended across Strait of Hormuz to Iran, regions now Pakistan (Baluchistan) and to the Zanzibar regions of SE Africa. While Portugal controlled many of these regions prior to 1650, to believe that they did not bring in European blades would not seem possible. The Omani not only were industrious merchants but maintained powerful naval control in the gulf. Ras al Khaimah had been a wealthy port since the 7th century, and trade with India and Africa extant throughout early times well into 18th century.
German blades became well established in India, North Africa, throughout Europe, the Caucusus and many regions worldwide, and by the 18th century virtually dominated most trade networks as far as that commodity. To think that Oman, one of the most powerful trade networks in many of these, would be impervious to the use of these blades is another suggestion I cannot accept.

I would point out also that the 'running wolf' mark had become so far from its origins in Passau as generally held by the late 16th century that it was used 'interpretively' by many blademaking centers, and adopted into native cultures application through later years. Its actual use in Solingen and Italy had waned by the latter 17th century, and ceased being used by then. The exceptions were use in England by Shotley Bridge makers, and the mid 18th century use by Samuel Harvey (with his initials). In the Caucusus the Chechen makers began using the marking in about the 18th century as the 'ters maymal'. At some point other native blade makers began copying the mark in North Africa as well. Much as with the well known dual crescent moons, these marks were intended to imbue magic into the blade, and seem to have been applied to that end. While price may be construed as a motive, the talismanic appeal is more than the quality/price allusion in my thinking.
These often indiscernable 'quadrapeds' are therefore essentially all interpretations of a stylized symbol whose application was never intended to be deceptive but to recall a long standing tradition in blades, from Europe into a number of other cultures.

I just wanted to reassert my views at this point and to reaffirm my understandings of this most fascinating discussion on the kattara/sayf.

[Iain]

Well said Jim, you managed to sum up my points with a lot more detail than I could have. Whether or not trade blades are present in the flexible sayfs encountered today, there is no doubt where the influence comes from. How the different, new, hilt style came into being is of course another question entirely...

Also very nice photo of the royal sayf Ibrahiim, fascinating to see that hilt style in a sayf!

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you very much Iain and as we have all agreed here, this is a fact finding mission to discover more on these swords of Oman....and I've still bveen at it, second day now going through all this stuff!!

I think I have another angle on why German blades (which seem to be the prevalent denomination) would have likely been widely used in various times.

Looking into "The Armies of the Caliphs" (Hugh Kennedy, 2001, p.173-175), there are some interesting references from the "al Suyuf wa Ajnasiha" (Swords and Thier Kinds, Ishaq al Kindi c.870AD). Al Kindi was commissioned by the Abbasid caliph Mu'tasim to complete this study.
These notes coupled with those of Friedrich Schwarzlose (Leipzig, 1888) who extracted sword terms etc. from early Arabian poetry, give some interesting insight into swords in Arabic tradition.

Many of the swords are called by names which reflect where they were produced such as Qala'i (believed Central Arabia but could be Iraq) ; Diyafi, from Iraq; Baylamani (from Yemen, possibly India); Mushrafi (Yemen or Syria).
Kennedy notes that the uncertainty of locations suggests these may have been terms for sword types rather than locations.
What is key here is that Yemen keeps predominating, and while it has been suggested that that name is colloquially applied to relatively vast area, I think it is more specific in this parlance and refers to southern Arabia.
Schwarzlose notes that swords from India were best, followed by those from Yemen made in Indian fashion "muhanned").
The references go further to say that the best swords were made in Yemen or Khurasan with lesser qualities from Kufa, Basra and at the lowest, Egypt.
It then notes Frankish (franjiya) swords but does not specify if imported or by type.

It is known that Frankish swords were exported into Andalusian Spain, but unclear whether to Arabia.

While these references are of course from the 9th century along with the Schwarzlose references which may include varying periods, the key point is that Yemen appears to have held high station in the sword production status.
Kennedy (op.cit.) notes that the most expensive swords were Yemeni, and that soldiers of the Abbasid period could easily afford Egyptian swords but that a Yemeni sword could cost up to 10 months salary. How long this esteemed reputation prevailed is hard to say, and clearly there was great variation in affordability for swords which likely continued on for centuries and following established traditions. It is noted in earlier discussions here that Yemen was a source for swords into Oman in more recent times as well, but there was another factor which may have presented more affordable blades some time before that...trade blades, mostly from Germany.
Elgood notes (p.16) that of the favored straight blades many good Genoese and Solingen blades from 16th century onward were exported to the Arab lands and India. He does note that the locally produced blades tended to be lighter in weight and the fullers more crudely drawn. This of course does favor notes by Ibrahiim toward the Omani blades over trade blades, in the case of the swords intended for the Razha. I believe that much as there are court and dress swords as opposed to combat swords, not all sayf/kattara were intended to perform Razha in the Funoon, and many were intended for regular wear.

Here I would note that not all Omani sayf/kattara must be in accord with the swords intended for the Razha, and Burton (1884) notes on these cylindrical hilted style broadswords "...is the usual shape worn by Arab gentlemen". This was observed by him in his visit to Zanzibar around 1858, and these swords are noted and illustrated in Demmin (1877) as well as Zanzibari. Burton goes on to say that these swords were for show, and quite unwieldy (he was of course a bit curmudgeonly and elitist as far as swordsmanship). I would imagine that the examples in Zanzibar carried even more of the trade blades from African sources from the Red Sea trade. Many of these blades also of course entered Yemen through Aden, and into the Hadhramaut as well as by sea back to Muscat.

I would imagine that the higher end blades were to ranking individuals, tribal leaders and wealthy merchants while trade blades were seen among the more plebian swords and rank and file. As local copying became more prevalent the marks long established among imported blades of earlier times were likely added as status or quality symbols for marketing as suggested.

The swords and heirloom blades of esteemed or high ranking individuals tend to be preserved, while lower every day weapons often do not fare as well. Most have already as mentioned earlier, gone into other contexts and are notably hard to find in our times, thus lacking as evidence to the earlier presence of these types of trade blades.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have been away from this fascinating thread for a while, and spent the better part of yesterday rereading, checking sources and notes and trying to absorb the basic course of these amazing discussions. This thread has become almost 'textbook' in the serious study of an indiginous weapon form and it is outstanding to see these kinds of approaches to learning from these weapons. As we have been seeing there are several instances of focus on particular weapons in this depth, and while commending Ibrahiim on this with the kattara I would be remiss in not recognizing the amazing work done by Iain in his study of the takouba, which has now brought in the kaskara and joined by Chris.
What is so important about this is that we are virtually joining forces in these studies and recognizing the powerful connection between these weapons and thier place in the vast trade networks which are key in the development of these forms.

I would like to add a few of my own observations and perspectives in the case of the thread topic, and the kattara, and try to reestablish my understandings thus far.

I think we agree that the 'old form' of Omani sword (thank you Ibrahiim for the post with example with its silvered sheathing, the first I have seen!) is a quite old form which may reflect early types of hilt in interior Omani regions. While we can presume this style hilt may reflect Abbasid styles of the 8th century, if I understand correctly we are uncertain of the exact form used as hilts surviving are not extant and as far as I know there are no iconographic sources reflecting these hilts. It is well established that in virtually all cases as seen by the swords in Yucel, early blades survive but the mounts are almost always newer. Blades as we know were remounted and reused through many generations, while even larger numbers were probably recycled as steel was valuable.

By the latter 18th century, trade had as noted long fluorished in Oman with Muscat the key market for the Persian Gulf, and Sultan bin Ahmad allied with Great Britain in thier treaty in 1798, pledging to help protect British interests in India. Trade between Africa and Oman was active and the EIC established a trade station in the Gulf under their auspices.
I would point out that in this very time, England was having issues with the abundance of trade blades from Germany which was contested by the English makers. Many German blades began being diverted to other markets which included North Africa by the early years of the 19th century. This simply augmented already well established systems of trade blades headed there long before, but more blades undoubtedly entered the Red Sea trade and by there into Arabian networks.

The fact that it is difficult to find examples of trade blades in present times still extant in examples of these sayfs is not at all surprising, given the fact that these swords often ended up leaving the regions in trade or recycled as they became old and worn. With the advent of military campaigns, colonialism, and of course tourism, souveniers and collecting these have largely disappeared into other contexts. Even in the Sudan during the British campaigns of the 1880s, so many native weapons had been consumed by souvenier hunting that a cottage industry creating more began...many of the components for these 'native' weapons were produced in England!

Actually, despite what is found in examples in these modern times, the vestiges of the once present European examples and thier subsequent African produced counterparts certainly were at some point earlier there in some degree.
I am not sure that I can accept a sword hilt style which was established so distinctly that its form became incorporated into a religious icon and so much so that it remained unchanged for 1000 years. As we know over time styles and decoration on everything changes in most cases, even in degree with traditional items particularly in religious context, but even such symbolic instances change no matter how subtly.
We are also well aware of 'revival' styles in weaponry and atavistic application in many forms. The swords rehilted in Istanbul in the 16th century are presumed to reflect early styles of the most revered periods in early Islam.

We then consider the evolution of the cylindrical hilt which if I understand correctly developed around the 18th century and seems oriented primarily in coastal regions of Muscat. The Sultanate of Oman extended across Strait of Hormuz to Iran, regions now Pakistan (Baluchistan) and to the Zanzibar regions of SE Africa. While Portugal controlled many of these regions prior to 1650, to believe that they did not bring in European blades would not seem possible. The Omani not only were industrious merchants but maintained powerful naval control in the gulf. Ras al Khaimah had been a wealthy port since the 7th century, and trade with India and Africa extant throughout early times well into 18th century.
German blades became well established in India, North Africa, throughout Europe, the Caucusus and many regions worldwide, and by the 18th century virtually dominated most trade networks as far as that commodity. To think that Oman, one of the most powerful trade networks in many of these, would be impervious to the use of these blades is another suggestion I cannot accept.

I would point out also that the 'running wolf' mark had become so far from its origins in Passau as generally held by the late 16th century that it was used 'interpretively' by many blademaking centers, and adopted into native cultures application through later years. Its actual use in Solingen and Italy had waned by the latter 17th century, and ceased being used by then. The exceptions were use in England by Shotley Bridge makers, and the mid 18th century use by Samuel Harvey (with his initials). In the Caucusus the Chechen makers began using the marking in about the 18th century as the 'ters maymal'. At some point other native blade makers began copying the mark in North Africa as well. Much as with the well known dual crescent moons, these marks were intended to imbue magic into the blade, and seem to have been applied to that end. While price may be construed as a motive, the talismanic appeal is more than the quality/price allusion in my thinking.
These often indiscernable 'quadrapeds' are therefore essentially all interpretations of a stylized symbol whose application was never intended to be deceptive but to recall a long standing tradition in blades, from Europe into a number of other cultures.

I just wanted to reassert my views at this point and to reaffirm my understandings of this most fascinating discussion on the kattara/sayf.



Salaams Jim~ Thank you for your time and effort researching and ploughing through my posts... I hope this one finds you well on Route 66 . Your reply is, as ever, absolutely excellent.

"The straight sword is The Sayf/ The curved sword is Kattara".


I surround myself with antique maps of the region and a backdrop of 20 or 30 swords, daggers and old muskets in the hope of gleaning some support and inspiration so with a cup of Arabic coffee I set down my defence.. though of course bearing in mind that thanks to you and Iain and others this has become a Forum epic and hopefully an example as you say of cooperation in cracking this difficult problem.

As a preamble I just want to clarify that the ornate Sayf hilt was generated at about the same time as the Al Bu Saaiid dynasty started and in parallel with or shortly after the design of the Royal Khanjar; seen at my thread of that name. It can be seen on the drawing of Sultan Bargash much later in the late 19th C at # 25 just before he was deposed at Zanzibar by the British and exiled to St. Helena. The fancy design appears to follow and cover the old design (interestingly not replacing it) with added filigree etc etc. Therein is a clue to the long lasting and honorific nature of the beast.

The Omani Sayf.

Certainly no one has been able to pinpoint a 751AD Sayf therefore we rely upon the similarities between the Abbasid (Military Museum Istanbul) and what we think is the Omani Sayf compared and as outlined in my early post # 5.The hilt with turned down quillons and the Islamic geometry on Pommel and handle constructed in the same way as the Abbasid and heralded through the Funoon "the unwritten form" a pageant of music song and dance enacted down the ages to which the only similarity that I can think of in Western style is Ring a Ring of Roses( the enactment of the Black Death plague that swept through Europe" or November the 5th Guy Fawks. (Parliamentary Gunpowder Plot) and the Devonish Furry Dance. The tradition of Funoon made more powerful by it being linked absolutely to the style of religion (and therefore learning, history, psyche and all in Oman from 751 AD. The sword dance is a section on its own specific firstly to the Parade(Razha) and secondly the mimic fighting with 2 opponents (alyaalha). I wish that someone had written a book at the time about this performance describing the Terrs and Shield being used… but that was the point of the tradition…The unwritten form. It was enacted not just once or twice but every year at both religious festivals(Eid) the equivalent importance to Western Christmas and Easter and at every wedding and big public event "ad in finitum" until today. The sword used with the Terrs buckler shield was the Old Omani Battle Sayf… The "Sayf wa Terrs"

Your note quote "The swords rehilted in Istanbul in the 16th century are presumed to reflect early styles of the most revered periods in early Islam." unquote Scholars tend to tread lightly on this note and I agree that it is tenuous… especially when trying to decide on the style of the Sword of the Prophet and when those were actually produced whether original around 630 AD or later honorific productions. Good examples of early blade form at The Military Museum Istanbul at ….Military Museum Pictures by Erlikhan #11 bottom two photos which compare well with the early Omani Sayf in eleven categories. This sword came to the Othmanlis via The Mamluke and hence the Abbasids(in Oman in the 8th C.) who probably took it from the Greek form.

As you point out quote ~ "in virtually all cases as seen by the swords in Yucel, early blades survive but the mounts are almost always newer". Unquote: emphasis in Omans case on "almost always".

People perceive Oman then as an open book however it was not at all open despite the illusion that Muscat and Sohar were burgeoning with international trade and freedom of ideas and thought… Oman was a peculiar half open half shut (at best) environment essentially split in half lengthways with a coastal belt and an interior often at war with each other and with 2 capitals. It was more or less, on and off, 2 different countries for hundreds of years. Before 1970 it was like stepping back 1000 years or more..They still used abu futtila …Slavery only 10 or 15 years before that was "normal routine." There were no roads, hospitals, clinics, proper doctors, nurses or schools…There was no electricity or piped water. The entire place in western terms was like somewhere totally mediaeval Arabia.
It had been that way for centuries.
Against that backdrop I urge you to consider the remoteness of Oman and within that the reluctance for changing something that worked pretty well and as Antony North points out in his Islamic Arms publication how weapons froze for incredibly long periods and in this case since with the old Sayf I believe from 751 AD to the 18th C and on through the 19th and early 20th !

The second and important reason for swallowing that theory is because of the link to the Ibathi style and linking this to my earlier paragraph on the Funoon Tradition. This after all was the weapon(with terrs) that freed Oman and heralded in the new religion. It was therefore heraldic by definition though the publication on Heraldic Symbols insist on marked shields (or flags) as the only way to show this. I argue that in the same way the cross formed by the western knights swords were both defensive and religious by definition so too is the heraldic nature of the hilt of the Old Omani Sayf. Islamic shaped pommel and octagonal grip with turned down quillons.
In essence it was not only traditional but heraldic thereby doubly frozen into the Omani system and psyche.

Treatise with everyone. Oman was expert at playing both ends off against the middle especially with the French and British. The situation for placing a political and trade envoy into Muscat was a hilarious helter skelter of yes you can no you can't with both sides (French and British) unable to do so until the turn of the 20th Century! This was complicated not least by the Napoleonic wars and the situation of British controlled India and the sub ownership of Zanzibar up to its subsequent break up in the late 19th C. This was the period leading through the Great Game involving Afghanistan Persia et al. Oman played a game of see saw with all interested parties and all were frustrated until very late in the proceedings. For a bewildering walk through of events read Dr. Sheikh Sultan bin Qasimi "The French and British in the Indian Ocean" during those three centuries 17, 18 and 19. In those days this letter would take a month to get to Bombay India, Bushire or Zanzibar and two months to return so that events superceded letter content and everything changed all the time thereby outdating decisions taken by both sides in a ridiculous timetable of blundering inefficiency.

Your well made points on trade blades are agreed as therein lies the puzzle.

The Portuguese. The evolution of the cylindrical hilt. Caucas Blades.

The Portuguese entered the Indian Ocean in late 15th C in search of Slaves Gold Silver and Mercenaries. Unable to find the fabled land of Prester John they eventually recruited Indian fighters with Indian weapons to do their bidding. Their style of political and religious fervor at the time led to atrocities up and down the length and breadth of the Indian ocean and in Oman they sacked Sohar with the same vigour. For whatever reasons they hated Muslims and to consider why Oman did not adopt Portuguese weapons that should rank highly. ( plus their Indian mercenaries used a lot of Indian weapons) I have had a few examples of Portuguese swords in the rapier style from that period now given to friends and I await their pictures but they are typical Portuguese with script down the blades belonging to Count such and such etc also seen in museums here but not the Omani type at all… totally different. The Portuguese legacy in Oman is in the Portuguese built fortresses Mirani, Jelali and Sohar Forts in architecture but not in bladed weapons.

The reasons why are probably threefold..viz;
1. The Omanis hated them.
2. The weapons were not to their style and either too complicated or in fact Indian.
3. They already had a weapon system so why fix it if it wasn’t broke?

As a glaring example of Omani indifference to foreign styles they had been doing business and trade with India for centuries. Earlier, Sohar, was the biggest port on the planet. Whilst style of dress jewellery and architecture was influenced by India on the coast nothing permeated the interior and no weapons of Indian extraction (except gunpowder weapons) entered the equation. The Omanis had been staring at Indian blades for centuries much longer than any other system… Omanis even settled in Goa and on the Malibar coast and Indian people on the Oman coast. There are, however, no blade influences except the other way round ie Khanjar Omani to Khanjar Indian. Oman did via the design of the Royal Khanjar adopt an Indian style hilt over an Omani one… nothing else.

The Shotley Bridge Swords. Thank you for pointing out the SH mark with the Running Fox… Whilst the link with the Solingen or Passau Woolf is not lost on me the animal is different ~ Fox form as opposed to Woolf. At the same time I agree that Woolf marks on a blade would be construed as Talismanic i.e. protecting the user from the evil rabid Woolf which roamed here but in so being put on a blade that automatically pushed a little more quality therefore value onto the price.

The evolution of the cylindrical hilt. Actually a flat cylindrical form, which, if dissected has a cuff, a grip and a pommel. The shape is arched. It often has a hole for a wrist strap in the pommel. No Quillons. It has all the attributes of the former hilt except quillons… and the obvious difference to long shape needed for a long blade.

Quote "We then consider the evolution of the cylindrical hilt which if I understand correctly developed around the 18th century and seems oriented primarily in coastal regions of Muscat" Unquote.

I can find no reason why it was developed in Muscat as opposed to say the interior at Nizwa. Nizwa was the seat of Ibathi teachings therefore would it not be at Ibathi central where a new system developed? Where Muscat was concerned it is plausible that ship styled weapons in the long and shorter curved variety influenced Omani weaponry such as the Persian Shamshir and the Zanzibar variant or curved swords that somehow all became called Kattara in Oman. The long curved Kattara has the identical hilt to the Long Sayf.. Did they appear at the same time? We seem to assume the straight came first and the hilt transferred to the curved as it entered use...Maybe.

Caucaz blades I agree on all things including their appearance on Red Sea, Zanzibar and Yemen variants and used on the Oman coast on dhows etc. I don’t know if they affect the straight Omani Sayf.. not in my opinion.

In conclusion I suggest that the Short Omani Battle Sword Sayf eminates from the 751AD date as noted but that the changeover to the Long Flexible Sayf though not yet proven is perhaps as outlined below and at #208;

The hypothesis looks a bit like this ~ Oman had an old battle sword but in about the 18thC another sword style caught their attention; perhaps the Mamluke derivative coming down the Red Sea used in Yemen (Omans southern neighbour and or Algeria and Saudia etc)~Perhaps the Old Sword had outlived its purpose and became redundant because no one could make them anymore or gunpowder had made them redundant. Thus it entered the arena and was modified for flexibility and lightness and given the long hilt treatment.

The question as to a European Trade Blade import or influence on the flexible long Sayf is still unknown.
The fact regarding the local name for the old Sayf as Sayf Yamani gnaws away in the background..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank you very much Iain and as we have all agreed here, this is a fact finding mission to discover more on these swords of Oman....and I've still bveen at it, second day now going through all this stuff!!

I think I have another angle on why German blades (which seem to be the prevalent denomination) would have likely been widely used in various times.

Looking into "The Armies of the Caliphs" (Hugh Kennedy, 2001, p.173-175), there are some interesting references from the "al Suyuf wa Ajnasiha" (Swords and Thier Kinds, Ishaq al Kindi c.870AD). Al Kindi was commissioned by the Abbasid caliph Mu'tasim to complete this study.
These notes coupled with those of Friedrich Schwarzlose (Leipzig, 1888) who extracted sword terms etc. from early Arabian poetry, give some interesting insight into swords in Arabic tradition.

Many of the swords are called by names which reflect where they were produced such as Qala'i (believed Central Arabia but could be Iraq) ; Diyafi, from Iraq; Baylamani (from Yemen, possibly India); Mushrafi (Yemen or Syria).
Kennedy notes that the uncertainty of locations suggests these may have been terms for sword types rather than locations.
What is key here is that Yemen keeps predominating, and while it has been suggested that that name is colloquially applied to relatively vast area, I think it is more specific in this parlance and refers to southern Arabia.
Schwarzlose notes that swords from India were best, followed by those from Yemen made in Indian fashion "muhanned").
The references go further to say that the best swords were made in Yemen or Khurasan with lesser qualities from Kufa, Basra and at the lowest, Egypt.
It then notes Frankish (franjiya) swords but does not specify if imported or by type.

It is known that Frankish swords were exported into Andalusian Spain, but unclear whether to Arabia.

While these references are of course from the 9th century along with the Schwarzlose references which may include varying periods, the key point is that Yemen appears to have held high station in the sword production status.
Kennedy (op.cit.) notes that the most expensive swords were Yemeni, and that soldiers of the Abbasid period could easily afford Egyptian swords but that a Yemeni sword could cost up to 10 months salary. How long this esteemed reputation prevailed is hard to say, and clearly there was great variation in affordability for swords which likely continued on for centuries and following established traditions. It is noted in earlier discussions here that Yemen was a source for swords into Oman in more recent times as well, but there was another factor which may have presented more affordable blades some time before that...trade blades, mostly from Germany.
Elgood notes (p.16) that of the favored straight blades many good Genoese and Solingen blades from 16th century onward were exported to the Arab lands and India. He does note that the locally produced blades tended to be lighter in weight and the fullers more crudely drawn. This of course does favor notes by Ibrahiim toward the Omani blades over trade blades, in the case of the swords intended for the Razha. I believe that much as there are court and dress swords as opposed to combat swords, not all sayf/kattara were intended to perform Razha in the Funoon, and many were intended for regular wear.

Here I would note that not all Omani sayf/kattara must be in accord with the swords intended for the Razha, and Burton (1884) notes on these cylindrical hilted style broadswords "...is the usual shape worn by Arab gentlemen". This was observed by him in his visit to Zanzibar around 1858, and these swords are noted and illustrated in Demmin (1877) as well as Zanzibari. Burton goes on to say that these swords were for show, and quite unwieldy (he was of course a bit curmudgeonly and elitist as far as swordsmanship). I would imagine that the examples in Zanzibar carried even more of the trade blades from African sources from the Red Sea trade. Many of these blades also of course entered Yemen through Aden, and into the Hadhramaut as well as by sea back to Muscat.

I would imagine that the higher end blades were to ranking individuals, tribal leaders and wealthy merchants while trade blades were seen among the more plebian swords and rank and file. As local copying became more prevalent the marks long established among imported blades of earlier times were likely added as status or quality symbols for marketing as suggested.

The swords and heirloom blades of esteemed or high ranking individuals tend to be preserved, while lower every day weapons often do not fare as well. Most have already as mentioned earlier, gone into other contexts and are notably hard to find in our times, thus lacking as evidence to the earlier presence of these types of trade blades.

Salaams Jim~ My last post ended on the note about the local name Sayf Yamani for the old stiff bladed Omani Sword and it may be that the Yemen hold clue to its manufacture or as you point out and we have seen before people pointing generally at Southern Arabia but actually meaning
part of Oman, Yemen and the Horn of Africa as one place. The Yemen were indeed famous for blade making and I consider that as a likely contender for early Sayf. Iraq for the same reasons.

I am not a great fan of Burton and I can show photos and sketches several Zanzibari dignatories in the 19th C wearing variously straight Sayf Yamani, Curved Kattara Omani, Shamshir also called Kattara and the Zanzibari Nimcha and or the Omani Khanjar.

The rest I need to look at in more detail ~

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding responses Ibrahiim, and it really is great to be expressing our ideas and perceptions not especially as debate, but establishing opinions on compiled material at hand. Naturally concerning matters regarding the specific history of Oman and its environs your command is understandably profound, and my interpretations are cursory as I am pretty much learning most of it as I go along. Most of my interest in the history of swords has always been primarily markings and symbolism, as well as understanding more on forms as they developed. Clearly we are focused on both here, so it becomes more fascinating as we move forward.

I understand what you mean on the heraldic type tradition with the old sayf, and am trying to get used to using these terms according to the parlance you are establishing here.....its hard though as of course the kattara term is so firmly emplaced from the many years of referencing these. In most cases with study of ethnographic weapons the semantics of terms in referring to various forms becomes maddening, and as once well described by Lee Jones, typically applied generally to sword, not otherwise specified. The sabre in Morocco usually termed 'nimcha' is more properly termed Moroccan sa'if...in India the Indo-Persian sabre with disc pommel is termed tulwar, but then so are Persian shamshirs in the Mughal courts. In the Sudan, we have called the broadsword the kaskara, but there it is simply known as sa'if. There are so many other instances of disparity in application of these terms for specific forms of weapons that it is almost futile to try to resolve effectively. I am pretty sure we could write a book on the instances of variations on edged weapon nomenclature and classification alone.

Returning to the tradition of the old sayf remaining in situ for literally a thousand years, in essence I understand what you mean, but agreed we have no certain idea what the 751AD sword actually looked like. It is agreed that most of the swords extant in Istanbul were probably rehilted, and again we agree 'probably' most, but still none have the hilt style of these old Omani sayf. I do know what Anthony North meant though, and it is true that very old weapon styles did remain present over long periods, but I think much of this is due to atavistic and revival type situations recalling old traditions, much in the heraldic sense you describe.
In the late 18th and through the 19th century, French military weapons brought forth many neo-classic designs and many were from old Roman sword types from ancient times. These forms transmitted into American examples and into the civilian sector with fraternal groups and Masonic organizations.

The biggest problem in studying various ethnographic weapon forms in trying to establish reliable continuum chronologically showing thier evolution and development. Many forms familiar to us such as the kastane of Sri Lanka; flyssa of Algeria; the so called 'Black Sea yataghan' ; and numerous others are late comers, some of which can only be traced to early 19th century, thier seemingly ancient style association compellingly connected, but with no linear progression to support those origins.

There really does not seem to be any particular reason to presume that the cylindrical hilt evolved in Muscat over the interior regions, and there does not seem to be any particular tradition for guardless swords in either. Clearly your perspective on the sword and buckler concept is well placed as these type swords were light and fast, and any guard or parry was to the buckler. I believe if I recall that it is established that both of these hilt forms existed concurrently though of course the cylindrical type came in around late 17th or 18th century. The silver sheathing embellishment seems to typically be absent on examples of the old sayf which appear, and less common but does exist on the cylinder hilt type.

I believe that the flexible blade was key to the cylindrical hilt form used for the sword dance, but that it was not essential to all of these type sayf. Much of the presence of these was toward the fashion in wear, and I believe that these were worn as key accoutrements of status by influential individuals. Case in point are the curved blade types which are seen in todays Omani emblem along with the distinctive khanjhar, also a key element of fashion and status. Again, this is simply my own perception at this point based on what I have understood from material I have researched.

Good points on the sayf Yemeni and agree that that classification term while typically suggesting where the sword was made (per Kennedy, op.cit.) may equally simply mean, where it is from. As we have discussed, trade blades, primarily German were coming into Yemen regions in the 19th century, and probably in some degree earlier via other trade connections. It seems to me that most European blades had a good degree of flexibility, though I am not certain they reached the degree of flexibility of the halab blades. It would seem that there would be a degree of selection as far as the blade used, and that those intended for these sword dances were not necessarily those which may have carried heavier straight or curved blades. If I understand correctly the curved swords are not used in the sword dance.

Your note on the Zanzibar 'nimcha' brought back memories. These are actually as I understand also termed sa'if and are typically like the Moroccan hilts with similar quillon system except they have a vertical counterguard ring. When I first acquired one of these many years ago it was one of a number acquired in Yemen. I had been researching the curious H type hilt sword Burton and Demmin (1884 and 1877 respectively) show next to the Omani cylinder hilt, and describe it as 'the other type Zanzibar sword'. I was subsequently able to show that that particular type, through references with Buttin, was actually a Moroccan s'boula and had been taken by these authors to have been Zanzibari. Clearly another situation of trade route diffusion reflecting the contact between these diverse regions through trade entrepots across vast distances.

Returning to the old sayf type, by analogy I would note the Indian khanda, often termed 'firangi' if it is with European or 'foreign' blade. These came from a relatively ancient sword style which is seen iconographically on ancient friezes in temples. It is important to note that these swords are very much revered in the Hindu religion , and by form these venerated swords are very much a part of religious ceremony in many cases. These also often have certain elements of thier structure reflecting architectural and sacred shapes and designs of the temples along with deep meanings imbued in the weapon itself.
Rather than remaining entirely static in design, these evolved into what has become known as the Hindu basket hilt, in which the basic structure remains but in more developed form. While suggested that European hilt forms led to this development, it appears to me that it was more a gradual developmnent of the basic form. As with many traditional ethnographic sword forms, thy remain essentially the same, but with often extremely subtle nuances which can help in establishing the date or period they are from.

Obviously this analogy does not necessarily prove anything toward the discussion on the old sayf as far as whether they remained the same from the beginning presumed at around 751 until the18th century, but I thought worthy of note as an interesting parallel.

As always, I am very much enjoying our discussion, and the in depth look into the history surrounding these weapons. Thank you so much, and look forward to progressing onward.

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim, Great points. Thank you for delving into the reference books.

I would like to address the subjects Terminology, National Emblem, Dancing Swords and Curved Kattara. Please be advised that this post carries a bombshell suggestion (or two) on the entire subject... :shrug:

Terminology. Sayf is the old Arabic word for Sword. Kattara came on a few hundred years ago say in 1750 from who knows where? It is not an Arabic word. This raises the question that before 1750 what did they call such curved swords present in Oman like Shamshir etc ? The answer is they called all swords Sayf !

Where did the word Kattara come from? It occured to me that there are a number of swords that sound very like Kattara such as Kastana, Kaskara or Katana. Taking the most likely line of influence African influence rather seems possible. The outsider from Japan though it is a massive distance gets on the radar screen because of the shape of the hilt. Although Omanis showed the Portuguese the sea route to China I have up to now not looked to that region for influence and on comparing handle construction there are many differences not to mention no Tsuba on the Omani Hilt. I therefore only mention it on passing.

What is odd is the appearance of the long hilt on both Sayf and Kattara at around the same time and I ask the question which came first and why?

National Flag. The fact that the two crossed curved Kattara appears on the national flag may indicate its priority.

Dancing Swords. We speak about the Long Flexible Sayf but it burns a hole in my research regarding its fighting prowess. My own style of Martial Art is Kyokushinkai though to mix it up a little I trained with Japanese and Chinese weapons for a few years. I have to say I have never rated the long flexible Omani Sayf though I have seen demonstrations of it slicing through various products (that weren't fighting back!) but only with the sweet part of the blade not the end section. I can not find a single event in history which the weapon was used in a fight skirmish or war. There are good reasons for this... one in particular... because it's not a fighting sword. It's a dancing sword. :eek:

As a pageant only sword it explains why we have been tilting at windmills and may be why the European Trade Blade is entirely spurious. It may also go someway to explain why the dancing sword was never made in exotic steel with wootz in Oman although I know there are one or two around probably special commissions out of India.

For this reason I support the appearance of the curved Kattara first perhaps around 1750 but not displacing the short battle sword at all. The Short Omani Sayf remained as the weapon of war (this is a formidable chop, hack, slash and stabbing short sword) though because of gunpowder weapons its eventual decline was assured. We were right to consider the two swords being used over a few hundred years, but I reason, one is the fighting stiff sayf while other flexible sayf is for displays and dancing only. The use of the same shield is purely convenience.

The take off of the long hilt onto the Funoon dancing sword was therefore entirely natural. The Kattara curved single edged weapon, on the other hand, is a real killer and in fact is more the "chop chop" executioner weapon and worn more as a badge of office whereas in fact the flexible dancing Sayf is not ...

The flexible dancing Sayf never attained the Iconic status of the Old Sayf, The Kattara, The Shamshir or the Zanzibar Nimcha though it was the dancing sword and is still in the Funoon. Before the advent of the flexible Sayf the old Battle sword was used (though more cumbersome) in the traditional Funoon (as in fact was the Khanjar though the later in Salalah).

I see the transition from Africa possibly through the slave trade of the Kattara curved style. I can see how curved trade blades have been re-hilted onto curved Kattara.

The Omani Flexible Dancing Sword (Sayf) is not a weapon per se. and never was: The European Trade link to this sword has thus collapsed. shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

After Note; Pictures 1, 2; Showing below a possible transition of hilt form with influence from Red Sea / Yemen weapons on the eventual transformation of the Flexible Omani Dancing Sayf and in aproximate parallel timewise with the Curved Kattara design.

Picture 3, 4; Some different designs of Curved Kattara (there are others)

[A.alnakkas]

Hello All,

Ibrahim, I have done some research regarding the term "Kattara كتارة" and it seems to be a term more focused on the shuhooh tribe? As you said, it seems to refer only to the curved Omani saber but the name "kattara" was also used as a person name; For example, the tribe of Ibn Kattarah (I need to research this tribe)

The term as you said, does not seem Arabic so its rather interesting!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hello All,

Ibrahim, I have done some research regarding the term "Kattara كتارة" and it seems to be a term more focused on the shuhooh tribe? As you said, it seems to refer only to the curved Omani saber but the name "kattara" was also used as a person name; For example, the tribe of Ibn Kattarah (I need to research this tribe)

The term as you said, does not seem Arabic so its rather interesting!


Salaams A.alnakkas ~ I think that is interesting and the name Sayf also is a persons name. The Shihu are a very interesting tribe and their main family group is called Shehe. They give the name to a short knife that tucks in the belt and used in other closeby Omani areas (in much of Northern Oman) behind the Khanjar though technically they don't wear tha Khanjar prefering the Jers axe instead. They straddle the Oman UAE border and appear linked originally to a Persian tribe... as is the axe (Luristani linked as I see it) Today the straight Sayf flexible dancing sword is made there and in other centres like Nizwa.

I was reviewing the vast load of material already generated and looking for various links when I suddenly realised that the Long Flexible Sayf was in fact not a weapon as such but "a dancing sword."
What various dignatories visiting the region in the 1800s meant when for example they referred to ~Scotish Claymore style of weapon at Hormuz ...and in other parts of Oman ~ 2 handed weapons... capable of chopping off a limb...3 feet long swords etc is the Old Sayf often in the area of 2feet 6inches and 2 feet 8inches. The dancing sword is nearly 4 feet long. The hitting/cutting power of the old weapon is far superior as its heavy thick wing shaped and razor sharp blade would slice through much more efficiently. Then I got into a lot of conversation with old gentlemen and realised that though nothing was written down the flexible sword was simply a dancing sword. It is important all the same but now I can see where it slides into the overall plan... and why it has no European Trade Blade link at all.

The curved Kattara of course is totally different. :shrug:

Thank you for your post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely excellent summation Ibrahiim!!! I think you have put that together spot on, and I think this is basically the best solution to the kattara/sayf conundrum thus far. Naturally other fine points will be added, but this seems to plausibly describe this grouping of sword types as contemporarily used and with varying application.
On the kattara term, though it is a reach, in the northern parts of India and Afghanistan there is a type of dagger used by Kalash tribes usually in Chitral and of course this diffused widely.....it was called a 'katara' which seems to be another term in various linguistic parlance used for daggers and swords interchangeably. Remember that in these regions particularly it is often hard to define exactly where 'sword' category ends and dagger or knife begins...the 'khyber knife' for example is a huge butcher knife the size of a sword (also termed Salawar yataghan though it has nothing to do with the traditionally specified yataghan).
Also, the term katar for the well known transverse bar daggers seems to derive from a Hindu word for 'cut'. Perhaps these terms may have entered Arab parlance via Omani presence in Baluchistan and Indian trade ?

Outstanding work here guys!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Absolutely excellent summation Ibrahiim!!! I think you have put that together spot on, and I think this is basically the best solution to the kattara/sayf conundrum thus far. Naturally other fine points will be added, but this seems to plausibly describe this grouping of sword types as contemporarily used and with varying application.
On the kattara term, though it is a reach, in the northern parts of India and Afghanistan there is a type of dagger used by Kalash tribes usually in Chitral and of course this diffused widely.....it was called a 'katara' which seems to be another term in various linguistic parlance used for daggers and swords interchangeably. Remember that in these regions particularly it is often hard to define exactly where 'sword' category ends and dagger or knife begins...the 'khyber knife' for example is a huge butcher knife the size of a sword (also termed Salawar yataghan though it has nothing to do with the traditionally specified yataghan).
Also, the term katar for the well known transverse bar daggers seems to derive from a Hindu word for 'cut'. Perhaps these terms may have entered Arab parlance via Omani presence in Baluchistan and Indian trade ?

Outstanding work here guys!!!

All the best,
Jim



Salaams Jim ~ Great reply. Great support. Thanks for your confirmation so far. I hope people can understand the vagueness that decends upon anything virtually before 1970 here... It is like entering a Mediaeval tunnel. Myth, superstition and unsubatantiated information fog the screen. I agree that we appear to be on the button with the dancing sword. I am also convinced about the Old Battle Sayf.

Regarding the curved Kattara. I agree that it could be a bastardised foreign word even from the English "cutter" or the Hindi "Katar" or qudurrah or from the Sri Lankan "kastane" or more than likely since I see a link with the Zanzibar hub and slavery off the African sword group (Kaskara?). As lofty points out there is also the possibility via a name in the Shuhooh tribe which is similar; so the book is open on that.

What I find interesting is that the Forum gave this particular tree a really good shake and eventually the facts have popped out. We even started off with the wrong terminology and corrected that in mid stream! Before this the entire world of swords was in my opinion "totally in the dark" over this important issue of the dancing sword and way out of timescale on the Old Omani Battle Sword and its important significance.
What is amazing is that the same weapon designed in or before 751 AD not only lasted up to the arrival of the dancing sword and curved Kattara but beyond that into the 20th Century though by then attaining an Iconic status (and gradually overtaken by the advent of firearms) but still the primary fighting blade of Oman for more than 1,200 years.
This BATTLESWORD weapon was a virtual heraldic symbol to the original Omani Ibathi religious style and has attained honorific Iconic proportions having been modified over the hilt in the decorative style of the Royal Khanjar for the al bu Saiid Dynasty.

The Old Omani Battlesword "Sayf" and its shield "Terrs" are classic living examples of weapon freeze.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Michael Blalock ~ Please SEE #6 on Ricks "Maker Mark ID" upon which I have commented on that thread.

Compare the Algerian Gun breach mark to your blade mark. Translated it appears to say Amal...(Acccording to Dom) and it looks very like the mark on your sword... All the letters are there stacked in almost identical stylised form. Thus the lid appears to be popped on origin of your Sword Mark... Algeria ! :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I ask the question of the cross on the sword as being a short form of this mark.


Salaams Michael Blalock ~ I continue to work in the background upon this thread and noted that you had as yet not replied to the above which appears to solve the question pointing to Algeria as a probable stamp for both sword and gun marks; in a short, stacked form of arabic script. This is not to say that other countries did not use the same stamp format. It is however an indicator. I have not seen that "specific stamp" on Omani work. What this suggests is that your sword traversed the Red Sea and became formatted with a broad Omani Style but that its origins are elsewhere.
As a side issue I wonder if the very short form of this stamp is in fact a very simple cross placed by the owner rather than the maker? :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks!
I got lucky, always wanted one of those, but they are usually very expensive:-)


Salaams Ariel,
On sweeping back through the thread I note you have a Old Omani Sayf and on checking I think it has a circular blade stamp... If this is the case can you kindly show it please? I believe there is a Nizwa stamp corresponding to this sword but I am not yet able to confirm. Two places seem to be at the front in the investigation: Yemen and Nizwa. In referring to Yemen the area of interest may be Hadramaut or even Salalah (in those days). :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ I think that is interesting and the name Sayf also is a persons name. The Shihu are a very interesting tribe and their main family group is called Shehe. They give the name to a short knife that tucks in the belt and used in other closeby Omani areas (in much of Northern Oman) behind the Khanjar though technically they don't wear tha Khanjar prefering the Jers axe instead. They straddle the Oman UAE border and appear linked originally to a Persian tribe... as is the axe (Luristani linked as I see it) Today the straight Sayf flexible dancing sword is made there and in other centres like Nizwa.

Thank you for your post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hey Ibrahim,

I disagree in linking alShuhuh to a persian origin. They are arabs who have been in arabia and in the region since before Islam. It is said that they are called alShuhuh (the greedy ones or the broke ones.) because during the reign of Caliph Abu Bakr (RA) they stopped paying the zakkat along with other tribes from that region and they were fought and chased to the mountains which they still reside.

One can get an understanding of this story (whether its authentic or not) by checking the meaning of the word Shuh in a dictionary :-)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hey Ibrahim,

I disagree in linking alShuhuh to a persian origin. They are arabs who have been in arabia and in the region since before Islam. It is said that they are called alShuhuh (the greedy ones or the broke ones.) because during the reign of Caliph Abu Bakr (RA) they stopped paying the zakkat along with other tribes from that region and they were fought and chased to the mountains which they still reside.

One can get an understanding of this story (whether its authentic or not) by checking the meaning of the word Shuh in a dictionary :-)



Salaams Lofty ~ Good point. Certainly they are pre Islamic and today they straddle the border of the UAE and OMAN. There is a total breakdown on the tribe somewhere and I will dig it up... There are a number of key families notably the Shehe ( I also note there are about 5 sects also underlining their sub tribal independence). They are fiercely independent even today. The small axe is very similar to the Luristani axe that it is tempting to draw a conclusion and their own linguistic form is I believe Farsi linked.

About Jerrs axes. The other almost same shaped axe appears with Bedouin in the Omani Wahiba sands region used as a camel stick and a weapon (and called a Quddum) though it is undecorated and on a shaft roughly hewn by the owner as opposed to the Mussandam style which is made by the axe maker complete. Are the two areas tribes previously linked?

Swords. So far as swords are concerned in the Shehu region they seem to have a late production of Omani Sayf only in the last 30 years or so... but that is largely heresay. I recall you indicating that the term Kattara was possibly from that area but I cannot find a link yet.

Work Knife. They also give their main family name to a small work dagger called a "shehe" and though they don't wear Khanjars up there as they favour the Jerrs axe ... they do carry this knife on a simple waistbelt whereas interestingly that knife has found its way as a work knife onto Khanjars in Northern Oman... though generally the preferred work knife is a silver worked antique English Butter Knife (Sheffield Steel ) or the German equivalent from Solingen.

I think it safer of me to describe this unusual group as probably originating from a group of Arab pre Islamic tribes possibly displaced by war, famine or other causes. The name is fascinating and further study is inviting. :shrug:

On an historical note Richardson and Dorr in Volume 1 of their Craft Herritage of Oman describe the Jerrs Axe as almost identical to a bronze age axe from neighboring area tombs of Qidfa including the design patterns of herringbone, circles, dots and triangle motifs also paralleling designs on stone vessels at the site dated to the second half of the second milenium BC. Pottery also points to a link since it is proven that hand and wheel turning techniques have continued there in the Mussandam which originate in Messopotamia as early as 3000 B.C.etc.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams.. Following up the Shehe detail with Lofty I note that Bertram Thomas more or less linked the tribe with Yemen and the dialect is Kumzari which is an unwritten form. Slightly in contrast Wiki notes the similarity to Persian. I'm not certain if precise dating of the tribal blend can ever be achieved. Linguistics wise It is more likely to be geographical dialectic influence. I would however side with an Arab identity as this appears to be their main form.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~

Yesterday. Research took me into the Muscat Mutrah souk muddle; a sprawling mass of Omani artefacts set amongst the myriad of hundreds of stores interlinked with winding passageways in a step back in time... trade in there is seldom less than booming... and I was joined by several thousand tourists from a couple of cruise ships parked a few hundred metres away ~ See my thread on Souks of Oman.

There is only really one shop amongst hundreds of others that is worth scrutiny and I spent a few hours looking at heaps of stuff. What is obvious are the masses of Yemeni Jambiyya daggers; mostly cheap stuff. Plenty of Karabella and some half dozen Saudia swords with peculiar elongated hilts of the sort seen on thread.

I also stumbled upon a few other weapons of some note. One showed a date of 1708 followed by some undecipherable squigles. It appeared to be an Omani SAYF (dancing sword) Most peculiar ~ In a flash I could see my entire threads input lurching in a tail spin with flames accompanying !! This was indeed a puzzle and it was not until I was able to analyse the photos that it struck me by inverting the sword what it was. SOLI followed by a few squigles of which the first letter was N....An invisible finger tapped me on the shoulder at that point and whipered SOLINGEN stupid !

The blade not of the same material as a normal Omani Sayf ... The long hilt having been put on by the shop owner 10 years ago and he couldnt remember if it was a welded on Tang !! By pure chance the sword owner walked in... and by even purer chance I knew the lady from 15 years ago ~ A visitor to my shop here !! The sword had come back in for a clean up ///
No one had any idea what this was. Now I realise what it is :shrug: :eek:

On the reverse is a strange set of capital letters that seem to read STAMM STAMM repeated twice on the blade commencing at the hilt though the first few letters of the first word are a bit unreadable. I assume it is STAMM. The meaning is unknown. The letters are identical in style with flared ends.

Before anyone faints I have to caution that this is the only one I have ever seen and that the hilt is probably modified on a Solingen blade of early manufacture since the style of alphabet is the old one with small flares at the end of each capital letter. The date is unknown. I would say 17th or 18th C. It may be a blade off the African side... not as broad as Omani sayf, culminating in a point and flexible but not so flexible as an Omani Sayf. One fuller.We are lucky in that I have identified the man who reworked the hilt and the owner who lives in Muscat... Lucky indeed.

So that forum can take a swing at this I have isolated this on one post and will present the other finds separately... it gets interesting..

PHOTOS
The sword being discussed in this post is at the top of the first picture. The other two swords and others will be discussed in another post.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all, Omani Battle Sword; Sayf.

SECOND SWORD

Odd for a few reasons...
1. Three Fullers.
2. Top rivvet hole filled whereas normally its empty and considered as the wrist strap hole. Filled, however, it cetainly gives a better supported hilt.
3. Squigles on the blade at the throat on one side only. If its letters I cannot decipher. Perhaps this is a running wolf insignia.

Right next door to Mutrah Souk is a fine example of an old archway similar to the design of the Hilt on Omani Battle Sword; Sayf. Pictured below.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ This is where the wheel comes off the bike slightly !
THIRD SWORD.

Old Omani Battle Sword; Sayf.(half hilt missing) This sword raises a few questions viz;


1. European PDKG and asterisks ~An unknown Insignia on this blade.
2. Thin and narrow blade.

I would caution that this thinness and narrow aspect of blade is perhaps the only one like this I have seen. I have never before seen this insignia . It may be the missing link ie the so called 17th century european blade for the Old Omani Battle Sword. Note also that the capital letters appear as quite old gothic in style with flared ends as in the first sword at top of picture and in earlier post ( gothic revival ?) :shrug: :cool
On research I note a few leads pointing to possible answers from Sotheby's -
1.A small-sword, late 18th century, with hollow-triangular blade etched and gilt with ... circa 1650, with slender double-edged blade, stamped 'Sahagon' within the ... cut with running wolf mark, the spurious date 1616, and the letters 'PDKG' on ...

2.An Indian sword (pata), 18th century, the letters 'PDKG' on ...etc etc

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[David R]

... though generally the preferred work knife is a silver worked antique English Butter Knife (Sheffield Steel ) or the German equivalent from Solingen....Ibrahim al Balooshi sir, any chance of you posting a picture of one of these. I am fascinated by the idea of this sort of re use of a table knife..though given the quality of the steel of these old knives I am not too suprised.

[A.alnakkas]

Well hey Omani's turned out to like european blades eventually?:P

I like them, dont think they are european made personally but am no expert in the field. I think Omani's, like most Arabs, they have valued foreign blades and have imported + copied them. The pictures you add support that more then anything.

[A.alnakkas]

I think a balanced view is the best one. We cannot suggest that every single blade is native made nor can we suggest that every single fullered (and well made blade) is european. I think thats pointless to just place blades on such assumptions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I think a balanced view is the best one. We cannot suggest that every single blade is native made nor can we suggest that every single fullered (and well made blade) is european. I think thats pointless to just place blades on such assumptions.

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ Balance? I tell ya chasing this one down would unbalance most folks! Of the three swords however I am unphased since in the case of :

Number 1 ; I have identified the workshops that engineered the blade onto the Omani Hilt. They cant remember if it was welded but my bet is they did because in their collection and pictured by me is a welded blade that they admit to doing... The Ethiopian job awaiting an Omani hilt welded to extend the tang and include the Omani Pommel.

Number 2 ; The Old OMANI BATTLE SWORD. Not a problem there as it looks like a later model~ It originated in style about 1700 years ago but lasted til the early 20th C ... This sword is still being Iconized even now... we have one being dressed at this time including a new scabbard and silver furniture etc No doubt there are many versions of this weapon through the milenia but the style and origins to me seem clear.

Number 3 Sotheby have some research indicating the initials as India but that is open to examination ...The blade is weird.. I suspect Gothic revival .. I dont believe we need to worry too much about this one just yet though I would be delighted to discover that it is a European blade since I have searched for this based on rumour etc... It could be the 17th C replacement rumoured to have taken place. It is and was surely a pathetic blade and would be useless in a battle... I would rather have a wooden club ! It therefor appears as perhaps a one off ~ an Indian variant~ or a European replacement. It cannot have been that popular as Ive only seen this example. A freak even?

Therefor I am not able to conclude nor agree, in part, to your first paragraph though of course balance is vital; as is an open mind. Naturally if a blade is European I will declare that and where some new solidly based information crops up I will publish to forum...on that I have always been clear.

To date there is absolutely no concrete proof that European blades came onto the Omani scene to replace either the Old Battle Sayf or the flexible dancing blade Omani Sayf... save the crumb of detail and the outside chance that the sword shown at 3 above could be one exception.

The research goes on.

Salaams,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Well hey Omani's turned out to like european blades eventually?:P

I like them, dont think they are european made personally but am no expert in the field. I think Omani's, like most Arabs, they have valued foreign blades and have imported + copied them. The pictures you add support that more then anything.


Salaams A.alnakkas Ah well there you have it.

With the help of the Forum we have torn apart the myth on straight flexible Omani Sayf and rightly placed the Old Omani Battle Sayf into a corrected timeframe. The latter weapon regarded by many(with no proof) as variably 10th, 12th, 16th century with varying degrees of guess and error mixed. Some thought it Portuguese which would have placed it in the circa 1500 age bracket. No one had even heard of "The Funoon" . Ibn Jalanda... whos that? The Abbasids? Greek influence? Examples in the Topkapi Museum? Weapon freeze? Gradually the lid has been blown off...off that and the details about the straight flexible dancing sword "The Omani Sayf"... which has no European source whatsoever mainly because it isn't technically a fighting sword but a Religio-National Icon.

Oman did indeed also favour tasty curved swords and the Persian Shamshir, The Zanzibari Nimcha and the Karabela spring to mind where they are termed Kattara (though no one knows why?) in Oman.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams all, Omani Battle Sword; Sayf.

SECOND SWORD

Odd for a few reasons...
1. Three Fullers.
2. Top rivvet hole filled whereas normally its empty and considered as the wrist strap hole. Filled, however, it cetainly gives a better supported hilt.
3. Squigles on the blade at the throat on one side only. If its letters I cannot decipher. Perhaps this is a running wolf insignia.

Right next door to Mutrah Souk is a fine example of an old archway similar to the design of the Hilt on Omani Battle Sword; Sayf. Pictured below.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Fascinating example, unusual to see this form with fullers. The mark seems to be script to me rather than a running wolf or similar. I think this has quite some age to it.

A piece I would love to own. :)

[Jim McDougall]

Most interesting developments here with the mystery of German blade presence in these Omani swords, whether original trade blades or examples copied by Omani artisans. First of all, the name STAMM was a well established sword blade producing family there, indeed even slightly earlier than the 17th century, the earliest being Clemens Stamm (1580-1610, listed in Bezdek p.154). Others were Peter (1680-1700, who used the marking depicting Jonah and the whale); Abraham (1764-1770); Wilhelm (1778-1820).
There is indeed a pata listed in Pant ("Indian Arms & Armour", #217) with a blade by M.Stamm (captioned by Pant as Abraham Stamm, Solingen, 17th c.). It is well known that the Mahrattas heavily imported blades for thier swords in these times, highly favoring German blades over the British ones. German blades entered these areas by the thousands, presumably the source of the 'Alemani' term for swords carrying them (usually sabres).

While unclear whether the '1708' on this blade is indeed a date, or perhaps one of the many variations on so called magical numbers is hard to guage.
As indicated, the use of these mystical numbers such as the '1616' on the hollowed smallsword blade (clearly 18th century as per the form) and the name 'Sahagom' which was a 'brand' used by Solingen on blades headed for Continental markets, this could correspond to the 17th century attribution for Stamm. Whatever the case, and whichever Stamm might have been the maker, this is certainly a 17th century German blade.

The 'PDKG' is less attributable, and these kinds of four letter monograms are found in numerous variations. In the case of Hungarian sabres, typically made in Styria or Italy but of course Germany as well, the letters 'IPZD' are a recurring combination. It is often believed that these groupings which exceed the typical two letters presumably initials, may well be acrostics for phrases or slogans etc.
As your research has shown, the 'PDKG' has been found on other apparantly Solingen sourced blades of the 18th century, one to European markets and the other to India, which again, we know was receiving German blades in the 18th century, these combinations seem identifiable to Solingen.

As has been well supposed, German blades were well represented in Arabian regions as well as enrepots throughout these trade networks through the 17th and probably into 20th century.

Excellent examples shown and outstanding research!!!! You really have this topic moving Ibrahiim, nicely done, thank you. :)

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Most interesting developments here with the mystery of German blade presence in these Omani swords, whether original trade blades or examples copied by Omani artisans. First of all, the name STAMM was a well established sword blade producing family there, indeed even slightly earlier than the 17th century, the earliest being Clemens Stamm (1580-1610, listed in Bezdek p.154). Others were Peter (1680-1700, who used the marking depicting Jonah and the whale); Abraham (1764-1770); Wilhelm (1778-1820).
There is indeed a pata listed in Pant ("Indian Arms & Armour", #217) with a blade by M.Stamm (captioned by Pant as Abraham Stamm, Solingen, 17th c.). It is well known that the Mahrattas heavily imported blades for thier swords in these times, highly favoring German blades over the British ones. German blades entered these areas by the thousands, presumably the source of the 'Alemani' term for swords carrying them (usually sabres).

While unclear whether the '1708' on this blade is indeed a date, or perhaps one of the many variations on so called magical numbers is hard to guage.
As indicated, the use of these mystical numbers such as the '1616' on the hollowed smallsword blade (clearly 18th century as per the form) and the name 'Sahagom' which was a 'brand' used by Solingen on blades headed for Continental markets, this could correspond to the 17th century attribution for Stamm. Whatever the case, and whichever Stamm might have been the maker, this is certainly a 17th century German blade.

The 'PDKG' is less attributable, and these kinds of four letter monograms are found in numerous variations. In the case of Hungarian sabres, typically made in Styria or Italy but of course Germany as well, the letters 'IPZD' are a recurring combination. It is often believed that these groupings which exceed the typical two letters presumably initials, may well be acrostics for phrases or slogans etc.
As your research has shown, the 'PDKG' has been found on other apparantly Solingen sourced blades of the 18th century, one to European markets and the other to India, which again, we know was receiving German blades in the 18th century, these combinations seem identifiable to Solingen.

As has been well supposed, German blades were well represented in Arabian regions as well as enrepots throughout these trade networks through the 17th and probably into 20th century.

Excellent examples shown and outstanding research!!!! You really have this topic moving Ibrahiim, nicely done, thank you. :)

All the very best,
Jim


Salaams Jim... Brilliant detail and bringing on the STAMM info is just outstanding thanks... On the date I just need to clarify that it isnt a date ... it looked like one and the owner was adamant that it was ... indeed it looks like 1708 but when you invert it ... IT READS SOLI Then looking closely you will see a capital N and some more undepherible caps...following that... thus obviously SOLINGEN .

I have identified this shop as the hilt fixer on this old blade thus it is a blade coming in at a tangent and being reworked welded tang and pommel (Omanised)by this shop about 10 years ago according to them and the owner who I know coincidentally as a previous client in Buraimi.... and who walked in unexpectedly in Muscat which was amazing...

Your detail about the PDKG is also well received and I noted a london auction house which had other stamps the same... The stamp style of Gothic capitals seemed to point to German manufacture though I add that guardedly.

Your detail ;

Quote "As has been well supposed, German blades were well represented in Arabian regions as well as entrepots throughout these trade networks through the 17th and probably into 20th century".Unquote.

I still guard against since these are the only examples of these natures that I have seen in these formats. No others have cropped up. These are Omanised... as late as 10 years ago.

I therefore also guard against the supposition though look forward to upturning more evidence in the specific area of Old Omani Battle SAYF and Flexible Omani dancing SAYF trade blade replacements since actually we havent seen any yet.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Fascinating example, unusual to see this form with fullers. The mark seems to be script to me rather than a running wolf or similar. I think this has quite some age to it.

A piece I would love to own. :)


Salaams Iain~ Yes most odd... I suspect this has been played with by the storeowners workshop ~ He wouldnt admit that but he wouldnt deny it either !! The third hole to the hilt was cleverly filled making the hilt much firmer in the grip ... It ought to have been empty as this is considered as the wrist strap hole.
Onto the scribble on the blade... I see two pairs of legs and various squigles as is often the running wolf applied by anyone who cares to copy this simple motif. Ive seen it before on swords in this store. It isn't script.
Without taking the hilt apart and grilling the storeowners workshops I cannot speak volumes on what could be a cleverly matched mishmash. It simply goes in my diary as interesting. I would like to own it too !
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

... though generally the preferred work knife is a silver worked antique English Butter Knife (Sheffield Steel ) or the German equivalent from Solingen....Ibrahim al Balooshi sir, any chance of you posting a picture of one of these. I am fascinated by the idea of this sort of re use of a table knife..though given the quality of the steel of these old knives I am not too suprised.


Salaams David R~ I have this on forum already see search type in butter knife see "are these shafras" and see # 5; my pictures include an Omani worked silver handled Sheffield butter knife. :shrug:
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ Note to Forum. Recent conversion of Ethiopian (German blade) sword ready to be fitted with an Omani long SAYF hilt. WELDED TANG; ELONGATED, AND POMMEL ADDED. Muscat (Mutrah) 14 feb 2012. :shrug:
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all Note to forum on restoring scabbards for Omani Battle Swords Sayf. Pictured here the distinctive hilt showing the join and 3 holes ~ the top hole as a collet with a loop to take the wrist strap. Often the hole is empty and it is uncertain if this was the case or that the collet pin detail was used...The latter giving a more sturdy hilt. On this thread are hilts with no collet pin and one with a rivvet instead suggesting no wrist strap or as a latter modification. Usually the pointed pommel is of 8 sections reflecting the 8 sided hilt however this one has 9. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Picture shows new scabbard making in process.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

"The Straight is a Sayf the Curved is a Kattara".


Salaams all, As a bump to the thread and to include a fairly startling fact, I add the following information on this particular blade that I would term not expensive but "interesting" since it carries a European number 563. The sword has lost about 5 inches of tip and is roughly flexible through perhaps 50 degrees ... Whilst it is a dancing sword it attains lower quality.
If this was part of a sword run or batch where are the other 562 examples and were there any more? 1000 or 5000 others? It could be a one off or locally made in ras al khaimah India or elsewhere however we will probably never know... As I say it is "interesting".

I throw in an old Map of Arabia by Jac Meurs.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all, Note for Library SEARCH

Omani straight SAYF Dancing swords in Buraimi Souk today. The Yemeni shop owner pulls swords in the northern region from Mussandam and also other links from the Yemen/Saudia. I have posted a couple of pictures on Souks of Oman of some daggers etc

This Sayf is laminated and fully flexible through 90 degree bend. The decoration is flat wire stitching and the leather work is Northern ( Shimaliyya) The floral scrolls same however could reflect interior Omani work (Daakiliyyah). The blade is a little short by an inch or two ...but typical to type. Rigged to hang on a low baldric though in practise carried at the shoulder.

An exact date on the introduction of this dancing item buzzed in the air and sometimes thrown and caught in the historical enactment in the Funoon.. Although it is razor sharp and accompanied by a battle shield(terrs)in aspects of the traditional Razha dance pageant is not technically a fighting weapon moreover it is a celebratory accessory at weddings national day celebrations and the two Eid celebrations annually. It is engrained in Omans traditions.

It is assumed that the weapon arrived in the 18th C and clearly there is a link in the scabbard and hilt design style with its cousin the curved Kattara which appears to be a hybrid and appearing at about the same time. Pinpointing the arrival dates is an ongoing research project.

The origin of species of the Straight SAYF is also under scrutiny as there are links in style and shape to Red Sea variants apparently related to Yemeni/ Saudia weapons with historical notes supporting Ottoman, Mamluke, Abbasid and Greek roots. The peculiar fact is that a non weapon celebration sword has been designed from a fighting weapon and given a rehilting re scabbarding of Omani styling... though previous hilts of this precise nature are unknown(though there are some parallels with a Saudia / Yemen cousin noted earlier) the scabbard style is the same as the straight Old Battle Sword also called a Sayf whos origin of species points to 751 AD. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Late 20thC Omani Sayf dancing swords.

This style is typical of Ras Al Khaymah and carries the usual blade mark on both blades in identical form.

These swords are different lengths and on this post I shall also later (10 minutes)show the half sword in addition. As a dancing sword it is not obligatory to hold a full length sayf and often one sees the other variant two thirds the length(20 inch) of the long blades(30 inch)... still the same basic shape with flexi blade, round tip, razor sharp and on a long hilt however looking to my eye as a bit rediculous almost ! It rather underscores the pageant only use for this "weapon" or rather "pageantry accoutrement".

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Sallaams all ~

Confusion in the Timeline for The Straight Sayf Omani Dancing Sword and The Curved Omani Kattara.

A while ago, world opinion seemed to indicate a European source for the straight Omani dancing sword The Sayf which appeared to be the weapon taking over from the Old Omani Battle Sword..Also called the Sayf(actually Sayf Yamaani) in apparently circa the 18th C.

Whilst the date may be approximately correct (by coincidence) the assumption is, in fact, wrong. Forum has proved that this is not a European weapon or trade blade made by European sword makers since it is actually not a weapon at all… but a pageantry accessory that looks like a sword but isn’t. A quick breakdown as to why this is not a weapon viz;

1. The blade is flat thin and flexible to about 90 degrees from the point. (Useless in a swordfight proper)
2. The tip is spatulate designed deliberately to "not stab" since its role is to score a point against its mimic opponent in the pageant fake fight display by touching his thumb with the tip. In fact as an added in built safety measure since the blades are so long opponents rarely get within 6 feet of each other ! The sharp edges thus never come into play.
3. There are no quillons. Going in to bat with a real opponent without quillons is a tad risky. However since this is not a battle sword it needs none. The Old Omani Battle Sword has them.
4. The pommel is flat ended and often with a hole apparently for a wrist strap. The Old Omani Battle Sword has a pommel terminating in a point for close in strike to the face target in battle. In the hundreds of dancing swords I have handled I have never encountered a wrist strap… because it isn’t a battle sword so it needs none… The hole is for show. Many don’t have this hole.
5. In viewing the Funoon in the Razha and alyaalah acts of pageantry and mimic fighting it is obvious that this is only a socio/religio/politico/traditional artifact and accoutrement for dancing. Used in the tradition it also herralds in the Eid festivals and is paraded at National day celbrations and at weddings etc.Nothing else.

In support of this point~ In the flow of sword styles through Africa and Arabia there are no examples of this sword drifting via tectonic sword movement or development or trade into Oman in the same way that e.g. hawkshead "Nimcha" or Solingen blades have done. In the opposite direction this sword has not appeared in other countries (except the UAE which was part of the Oman not so long ago and certainly before about 1900 though individual Fiefdom rule was present etc. etc. ) It is Oman specific.

In none of the examples save a few squiggled fake Passau Woolf marks is there any evidence of a European blade mark. The crown mark is a fake RAK invention. Most marks have stars moon or the God is Great insignia(All Islamic/ Arab/ Omani Marks) or no mark at all.

Several centres are proven as manufacturing bases locally in Oman including Ras Al Khaimah, Muscat, Nizwa, Senau, Salalah and via an itinerant wandering Indo-gypsy group the "Zutoot" until now un-catalogued but now seen in detail in this thread and who plied their trade throughout Oman though since 1970 are integrated and their wandering trade has all but ceased.

The myth therefore of the Omani dancing sword… is therefore proven and with it collapses the European sword provision. It is a local item not a trade blade. In addition the time line reason d'être is also demolished since that also hung by the same thread to a European base… the accidental attribution of 18th C may be correct but as yet no proof is on the table. If I was to make a guess I would say perhaps this pageantry accessory arrived with the Al Bu Saaiid Dynasty. (I shall deal with the possible origin of design species soon and paying attention to its apparent Red Sea Cousin which has til now been rather puzzling and since its blade is not Omani)

The curved Kattara as a fighting sword comes under scrutiny in parallel since it too cannot be a fighting sword since the hilt is "quillonless". What is suggested is that this has become Iconized in the favourite way that Omani VIPs preferred the weapon (as a badge of office). Naturally being struck with it would be deadly enough, however, this is not a battlesword; not a weapon as such but a signature of wealth, rank and officialdom. It can also be viewed as a legal badge of law and could in the advent of criminal justice being meted out be an instrument for execution… etc

This official wearing is illustrated by the number of Sultans sporting these "fashion accessories" in late 19th C. photos and drawings. The Iconization of all Omani swords i.e. in design terms; the Zanzibari nimcha, the Shamshir, the Kattara, and the Old Omani Sayf Battle Sword (but not apparently the dancing variety) is evidenced. In the Iconic role the usual accompaniment of the Terrs shield is dispensed with.

In conclusion neither the dancing sword nor the kattara are fighting weapons of war and it should be added that the highly decorative Zanzibari Nimcha and the Shamshir variety (all termed Kattara in Oman) are court swords .. Icons not battle swords.

The only true Battle Sword of Oman is "The Sayf Yamaani" The Old Omani Battle Sword . The battle field weapon of originally 751 AD. The true "Omani Sayf".

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; Future tasks.

1. I have commenced cataloguing of the various types of Omani Swords and will publish to forum all the different styles in due course for library.
2. A post to view the possible origin of species of the Omani Dancing Sword.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ The First Sword to illustrate is The Old Omani Battle Sword known as Sayf Yamaani. Emanating from an Iraqi, Abbasid design mirrored in the Topkapi and used against that museum sword style in wars between Oman and the Abbasid garrison (in Buraimi) at the time of the first Immam in 751 AD. This is a real fighting weapon designed to kill at short range by chopping, slashing and stabbing like the Roman and Greek swords before. The Abbasids were Greek fanatics and thus the Greek style of weapon reflected into their armoury.

The "Sayf al Yamaani" is a living example of technology freeze and the style was retained and copied until the 20th Century. Its manufacturing base is as yet unknown though Nizwa and Hadramaut rank high in the choice. In its wake it has seen weapons come and go witnessing the gradual demise of long black powder guns, cannon, Martini Henry and Enfields as well as interlopers and non weapons such as the dancing sword which continued and heralded traditional celebrations and was given the same name; SAYF and coupled with the same shield The TERRS of thick hide " Waterbuffalo, Whale or Rhino etc"

I placed a sword of this type in the Tariq Rajeb Museum in Kuwait 15 years ago, assisted in the collection of 20 plus of them for a top collector in Arabia and currently have 3 in my private collection.

The sword finally passed into Iconic status in the late 19th century and can be seen on this thread worn by one of the Zanzibar Sultans in a sketch.

See this thread for 11 close comparisons in the style with the Abbasid Sword.

The Sayf Yamaani.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; The last picture compares the Sayf Yamaani with The Omani Sayf Dancing Sword centre and top the Abu Falq wiggly bladed Dancing variant. Both the latter swords appeared in Oman designed and made here not as weapons but as pageant accoutrements. (See post previous)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ The Dancing Sword . Given the same name Sayf as for all Omani straight swords but not in fact a weapon but a pageantry accoutrement. Not as rumoured a Trade blade but actually locally made in Oman... as it still is today. Date of origin as yet unknown however possibly 18th C or specifically at the time of the current dynastic accession. Blade length variable from a full 30 inch down to a short version 20 inches. Spatulate tipped, thin but broad flexi blade, on a long quillonless hilt with pommel, sometimes holed.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ KATTARA Type 1.

In this post I consider "what I call" Type 1 Kattara i.e. only those curved blades with the long Omani hilt Other types I include in the next post as Kattara Type 2.

The Curved Omani Sword. No matter what the blade is known as in other countries the name Kattara is applied from the Omani viewpoint. That means Shamshir, Nimcha, Shasqka etc all get the same label Kattara in Oman. The term appears to be a late addition into the language and "may be" a bastardised word from African, Indian or English (Cutter?) etc etc.

It comprises a curved blade often either Caucaz, Central European, German, Mediteranean, and in the Shamshir; Persian and Indian. In addition there is Red Sea influence and blades of Saudia, Yemeni, Zanzibari, manufacture etc. The main feature in the Omanisation process is in the long hilt which de-weaponises many of the swords since it does away with the quillons. The other addition is of course the Omani Scabbard. The item then achieves Iconic status; as this thread describes earlier.

The date guestimate of this variant hybrid coincides, perhaps, with the introduction of the dancing sword (in the above post) with which it shares hilt and scabbard style. Somewhere in the 18th Century and perhaps parallel to the current dynasty taking power. The exact date, however, is not yet proven.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

KATTARA TYPE 2. (i.e.the rest).
Picture with white hilt shows an actual Persian Shamshir for comparison.