British made Tulwars.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Mr Robert Wilkinson Latham of the Wilkinson family has kindly supplied me with the following information which I'm sure some members will find interesting.
Regards,
Norman.
P.S. Please download the file at the end of the post.

N.B. Mr R.W.Latham owns the copyright to the drawing/image of the Wilkinson Tulwar hilt.

[Jeff D]

Thank you Norman and Robert,

Do you have any of the measurements? I can partially see one one the boarder.

All the Best
Jeff

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jeff,
Try again and download the file I think it is all on this time, sizes and weights are there.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Jeff D]

Got it!

This is great information thanks again for sharing it!!

Jeff

[Jens Nordlunde]

Thank you Norman, and thank you to Mr. Latham, this is very interesting.
I would also like to know about the measures, and if all the swords were marked Wilkinson. If they were was the marking only on the blade, or also on the hilt?
There are old palm leaves from India, showing hilts, which the customers could order. Often they show decoration as well, so maybe it was not only the different hilt type ,but also the different types of decoration these leaves refet to.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jens,
Download the file at the bottom of the post, all weights and sizes are there. Robert mentioned in his correspondence that this info may dispel some mistakes of British blade/native Indian made hilt, therefore reading between the lines this would say to me that the blades were marked but the hilts were not. I will endeavour to clarify this point when I can.
My Regards,
Norman.

[Berkley]

The downloaded file notes "Also these styles were supplied to the princely States and also individual Trading companies in India for sale etc.". I have often wondered about the origin of the tulwar shown in the 1926-27 catalog from Manton & Co. of Calcutta and Delhi:
http://i43.tinypic.com/30jr2c5.jpg
This appears to provide a partial answer. The same catalog contains the cryptic entry: "Nepalese Kookries made to our special order, various sizes". As Wilkinson undertook manufacture of the 1951 marked Wilkinson Mk IV Kukris, I wonder if Mr. Wilkinson-Latham has found any reference to older British made kukris of the sort mentioned in the Manton catalog?

[katana]

Strangely, 512A is described as a straight bladed Scimitar :confused:

Kind regards David

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Berkley, no record of Kukris made by Wilkinson before MK1V, 132,384 sword proof records, so, if individual one made difficult to tell and most probably not.
There are however details of various Presentation Tulwars made e.g. on July 1879 a Colonel Probyn ordered a ' Steel mounted mamaluke tulwar with wood scabbard and polished steel mounts' for an Indian Prince. I'm hoping more details of the presentation swords may become available in due course. In the meantime here is another Wilkinson drawing for a Tulwar hilt, R.W.Latham copyright, and an extract from a Mole catalogue. Hope you will find these interesting.
Regards,
Norman.
P.S. Stats for sword re the drawing.
Hilt, pommel to bottom of langet 7 1/8 inches
Cross-piece 4 5/8 inches
Blade shoulder (hip under langets) to tip in straight line 30 inches.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Details of decoration for a Presentation Tulwar blade 1894.
Regards,
Norman.

[Berkley]

Hope you will find these interesting.

Very much so, and thank you for scanning and posting them.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jens,
Wilkinson marked the blades only no name or stamp on hilts, also the blade tangs were either threaded and peened or peened only to hilts. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
An interesting drawing of Wilkinson Tulwar scabbard furniture and a partial Proof Entry from 1879.
Regards,
Norman.

[sirupate]

Excellent info Norman, very very interesting :)

[trenchwarfare]

On a similar note: Several years ago, I purchased four swords off ebay. All had Indian made blades, with varying dimensions, and markings but, identical leather scabbards. That's where the Tulwar similarity ended. All four had identical cast brass hilts. Ribbed, and very similar to British Baker bayonet hilts. However, each had a very substantial D-guard. Naval cutlasses? Anyone here ever see such an animal? Did anyone here buy them from me? They were all sold to the same person. If I ever get my old computer up and running, I have pictures, somewhere.

[Magey_McMage]

Profuse apologies for necro-ing this post but I thought it more appropriate to place here than creating a new thread.

I recently acquired (legally, not physically) a later-made Wilkinson presentation Tulwar with features that largely overlap with the information here. It has been listed on auction at least once previously with an internet paper trail on the Anthony Cribb 2024 auction: https://www.antonycribb.com/auction/lot/lot-246---an-early-20th-century-presentation-indian-frontier-police-tulwar-or-sword/?lot=1033&sd=1#

One of the owners (the Cribb result was no sale, perhaps it was purchased in the post-auction clearances?) has already attempted to find an answer as to the provenance, though that mystery is less pertinent to the materialistic and physical interests of this thread: https://gmic.co.uk/topic/83369-researching-a-captain-ernest-ansell/

The blade in some ways is the opposite of what you could stereotypically think of as a Tu/alwar blade, being relatively narrow but thicker. Though lacking the montmorency fuller it reminds me of a French (style) early 19th century light cavalry sabre over even a British 1796. 84.5cm long blade so significantly longer than most.

Hilt appears to be brass cast with almost what you could call a reverse koftgari. Not sure if it is pitch or resin, or if the blackened contrast was applied with chemical aging and then the upper elements polished? Regardless, sans the knucklebow and the finial at the top instead of an eye, the hilt looks pretty dimensionally similar to the first image posted and I thought it may be beneficial to provide an image.

I have seen a few other British-made Indian swords around recently, personal sales primarily so I would want to get permission to show photos first. I hope this has been helpful. If I got anything wrong or you have any comments or concerns, please let me know. Thank you!

[Lee]

Profuse apologies for necro-ing this post but I thought it more appropriate to place here than creating a new thread.
No apology desired. For the record, I agree entirely. One of the advantages of this archaic social media format is keeping related information together rather than having it roll off into oblivion in less than a day.

[Ian]

Magey, I agree completely with Lee. Adding to the archived posts is very desirable when the item has relevance to that post and the discussion. Clearly, your beautiful sword belongs here! Thanks for sharing it with us.