Photos from museum of artillery

[Spiridonov]

I have made many photos in an artillery museum in St.-Petersburg. I will gradually apload them at forum. To begin with one of my my favourite gun made in 7050 year:

[Spiridonov]

bronze
calibre 122 mm
length 950 mm
mass 110.5 kg
Inscription on a barrel "ИОАНЬ БОЖИЕЮ МИЛОСТИЮ ГОСУДАРЬ ВСЕЯ РОУСИ ВЛЕТО 7050 ДЕЛАЛ ИГНАТЕЙ" (Ivan the divine favour the tsar of all Russia. At summer 7050 maked by Ignati)

7050 year is 1542 at new style

[Spiridonov]

late 14 or early 15

[Spiridonov]

else

[Matchlock]

Hi Spiridonov,

Thank you for uploading and sharing these!

I like especially the short handgonne barrel (Steinbüchse, firing stone balls); the date is, as you wrote, ca. 1400.

Did you happen to photograph at the Hermitage as well?

Greetings,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Did you happen to photograph at the Hermitage as well?


yes i do.

russian manual wall guns (затинные пищали - zatinni pishals)
earli-mid 16 century

[Matchlock]

Hi Spiridonov,

These are the first good quality images that I have seen of these early Russian guns.

The barrels are even older, late 15th century, and were restocked with 'modern' snap tinder lock mechanisms.

Thank you so much!

Michael

[Matchlock]

Hi Spiridonov,

Do you happen to have good photos of these guns at the Hermitage Museum?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7637

Regards,
Michael

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for posting these Spiridonov! These photos of these weapons are fantastic and I cannot say how much it means to have the holdings of these museums shared here.
Michael has for some time presided over fantastic contributions with many photos of his amazing collection and many important items of pertinant artwork, and to have you adding these key Russian museums, the scope of the forum has reached yet another dimension.

These wonderful posts, along with the many fantastic contributions of the many other members here sharing their collections and acquisitions present the great opportunities for us all to learn, as always, together.

All the very best,
Jim

[Matchlock]

Hi Spriridonov,

I think Jim put it best for all of us!:)

For my reply to your query about earliest snap tinder locks please see here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10278

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Hi Spiridonov,

Do you happen to have good photos of these guns at the Hermitage Museum?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7637

Regards,
Michael
Sorry, i have no photo of this barrel. This arquebuse in a museum store room :(

[Spiridonov]

very-very small russian barrels from museum of artyllery:
2: end of 14-begin of 15. calibre 12.5 mm. total length 190 mm. weight 0.6 kg
3: from 1475 to 1500. calibre 12.5 mm. total length 215 mm. weight 0.5 kg

[Spiridonov]

Russian button-locks (snapping matchlocks)

[Matchlock]

I appreciate those images very much, Spiridonov, thank you!

I should date all these items to ca. 1530.

Actually all these snap mechanisms were meant for a small piece of tinder (a sort of fungus growing on trees), not match. You can tell by the tiny jaws of their serpentines that they could never have received a piece of match which used to be as thick as a finger. :) The thick matchcord - often shown wound around the arm - was then only used to light the pieces of tinder each of which was used for only one single shot.

Do you have more of these? We are eager to see them!

Regards,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Do you have more of these? We are eager to see them!

I will make photo else :) What is your main interes? there are breech-loading artillery of 15 centure in museum. breech-loading arquebuse. Museum of artillery have a very big collection :)

[Matchlock]

Hi Spiridonov,


I have dedicated most of my life, some 30 years, to the intense study of earliest European hand firearms and related accouterments. As you too are deeply interested in this topic you might like to read some of my previous posts:


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?searchid=12058


I am certain that you will find many interesting items and historical sources if you take your time.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

It is a tragegy for me!!! I can't read this post. I see only :"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." I can not read arcive :(

[Spiridonov]

Europian guns

[Matchlock]

Hi Spiridonov,

No tragedy at all, perhaps the fault was on my side.

Please try this:


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/search.php?searchid=12168



Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Slice of barrel

[Spiridonov]

Inscription on the barrel:
"On command of good and religous of Grand duke Ivan Vasilevicha of a sovereign Russia maked there was this pishal in 7000 year on September, 30th. Maked by Yakov"
Length 1370 mm
weight 76 kg
7000 russian year is the 1491 of european year

[Matchlock]

Very beautiful cast copper alloy cannon barrel, Spiridonov - thank you so much for sharing! :) ;)

And, might I add, a very topic form of its period as well!

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Hi Spiridonov,
Great pictures. Thanks for sharing.
which is the same as saying:
большие картины. Спасибо за разделение

Fernando

[fernando]

Let me please hijack your thread, Spiridonov? :cool:
The quality and prime interest of these pictures taken at the artillery museum in St. Petersburg is just the opposite of the ones we can see here:
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rusarmy/artymuseum/arttbl.htm
The only couple amazing pieces i found, were an experimental square barrel cannon and a nice early stone throwing crossbow.
Did you know this crossbow, Michael?
Fernando

.

[Matchlock]

No, Fernando,

This crossbow is new to me.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

I know all obout this crossbow. I will answear later. Its a newmaked thing :)

[Matchlock]

That's very interesting indeed, Alexander! :)

Best,
Michael

[M ELEY]

I likewise don't want to hijack this great thread, but I was just wondering if anyone has any pics of any swivel guns/deck guns? Spiridonov's pics have one in the case that caught my eye (any chance for a closer pic of that one?). Just asking- :)
Mark

[fernando]

Hi Mark,
I wish i had myself a swivel/deck gun to picture and post it here :shrug: .
Attached are perspective pictures of the replica mounted on a 1500's discoveries nau (ship), that was built in a ship yard close from my place.
By the time of Portuguese King Dom Manuel I, a great impeller of naval weaponry, these guns were called berços (cradles), also it appears that this term originated elsewhere.
Also attached is a real one, possibly from the XII century, kept at the Oporto military museum.

Fernando

.

[fernando]

The real thing

.

[M ELEY]

Absolutely fantastic, Fernando. Thank you! I've become quite fascinated with swivels in their defense of ships. I had never heard the term "bercos" (cradles) before. Now I have more to research- Thanks. Anyone else with rail gun pics?
P.S. Fernando, you lucky dog! From those pics, you must live in a beautiful port city. Green with envy... :(

[Dmitry]

Judging by the breeches of these naval swivel guns, gases blew out of them like there's no tomorrow.

[M ELEY]

True, the breech-loading types might have lost some of their...um...gas :D , but as a close-range weapon meant to sweep the enemies decks, they didn't necessarily need much range. That would have strictly been left up to the larger cannon.

[celtan]

Hi guys,

Muzzle-loading deck guns in Spain were known as Versos or Falcones, (althought the latter was sometimes employed up to three pounders).

These guns were used in both ships and land fortifications, and their advantage lies in that they could be served sometimes by a single soldier, and were fast to load and fire. Their firing angle could be depressed close to the vertical, for close targets, as enemies close to the walls, boarders, or when shooting from the "carajo" high in the mast.

Breech loaders such as this were known as Patarreros.

I wonder, what would be the market price of one like this..?

I know of one that was found at a wreck site, and is unceremoniously sitting in a corner (after being stabilized) at a local museum depot. I have been trying to make the authorities realize how important that piece is, but If I could give them a $ figure, perhaps they would take better care of it...

BTW: Some breech-loaders were of the larger caliber, and were sometimes fired in banks.

Best

M

[fernando]

... P.S. Fernando, you lucky dog! From those pics, you must live in a beautiful port city. Green with envy... :(
When i mentioned close from my place i meant close from my home town . That is, the ship was built in the neighbour town, which is actualy 'glued' to mine.
Both are fishing ports, mine being nowadays a larger one. But in the town where this ship was made, there is much more naval construction history; in fact they used to build caravels there, in the discoveries period.
Tey coordinates Lat: 41.3728, Lon: -8.7719 through Google and you will see my town harbour.
Fernando

[fernando]

True, the breech-loading types might have lost some of their...um...gas :D , but as a close-range weapon meant to sweep the enemies decks, they didn't necessarily need much range. That would have strictly been left up to the larger cannon.
Correct reasoning; in fact, most of those pieces were of small dimensions and classified as anti personal. Some times they carried them along on foot, when making incursions in the interior.
They were also good to use in the bateis (ship's rowing boats) to board other ships or engage in battle with other rowing vessels, which so often took place.

[fernando]

Hola Manolo

... or when shooting from the "carajo" high in the mast ...
Here is a piece of semanthics that many people ignores, even Spanyards (mainly Galicians) and Portuguese, where the term is now only known for its second sense ;) .

Saludos

Fernando

[celtan]

Holá Nandiño,

Actually it's a very interesting word. Carajo/ caraxo can either be 1. a sailing ship "crow's nest", 2. an animal's male sexual organ, or 3. a tax imposed by arabs on the lands of christian subjects.

I guess that the common theme for all three was that you ended up xodido...

Best,

: )


Hola Manolo


Here is a piece of semanthics that many people ignores, even Spanyards (mainly Galicians) and Portuguese, where the term is now only known for its second sense ;) .

Saludos

Fernando

[fernando]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Marc]

:rolleyes:

Well, the word "verga" (eng. "yard", not the unit of length but the spar on a mast from which sails are set) has also a naval origin... :D



Hmm... there's that distinct feeling of a Ban Hammer looming in the horizon...

[celtan]

Yes, verga is a piece of wood. So, the title "Countess of Vergara" implies she was a noblewoman in a woody land....

:D

M


BTW: In Spain, a batel was an early type of medieval boat/small ship with a roundish, wide bottom, I believe they were known as cockles in the English world?

:rolleyes:

Well, the word "verga" (eng. "yard", not the unit of length but the spar on a mast from which sails are set) has also a naval origin... :D



Hmm... there's that distinct feeling of a Ban Hammer looming in the horizon...

[fernando]

... In Spain, a batel was an early type of medieval boat/small ship with a roundish, wide bottom, I believe they were known as cockles in the English world?
In the discoveries context, the batel was the largest of the boats carried aboard ships. It could carry several men, manoeuvered by oar or sail, and was used for several heavy duty services, like taking personel ashore, bring the water barrels aboard, engage in battle, do exploitation or fighting incursions up rivers, and even tow the ships when the wind was weak or absent, or from an incovenient direction. In the battle of Ormuz (Afonso de Albuquerque 1507) the bateis were used to tow the ships to the vicinity of the enemy's (Turks) vessels, for close quarters bombardment and consequent boarding. They were often carried inside the ships, near the main mast; in the case of smaller ships (caravels), bateis were often carried sideways ( board to board) and upside down, between the mast and the stern.
The smaller boats aboard (or towed) were the esquifes, operated by four or six oarsmen, and only used for small tasks, including the transportation of some person, like taking a captain to the admiral ship, for a meeting.
Fernando

[fernando]

:rolleyes:

Well, the word "verga" (eng. "yard", not the unit of length but the spar on a mast from which sails are set) has also a naval origin... :D



Hmm... there's that distinct feeling of a Ban Hammer looming in the horizon...

Vergas could be huge ... i mean, ship's vergas (spars) ;) .
I don't know whether French adventurer Pyrard de Laval (1575-1652) was exagerating when, at describing the Portuguese naus of the India route as being the largest ships afloat, quoted their spars as measuring twenty four fathoms, needing two hundred men to lift them ... and with the support of two powerfull capstans.
How's that? :confused:

[Marc]

So, what you are stating is that the Portugese are the ones who have the biggest ver... err... spars?
Big words, there. I hope you have something to show us in order to back them up!


Please, someone stop me... :o

[fernando]

... Big words, there. I hope you have something to show us in order to back them up!
Your'e right; big words ... only. Nothing to show anymore; that's long gone :shrug: .

[Marc]

Your'e right; big words ... only. Nothing to show anymore; that's long gone :shrug: .You tell me... :rolleyes:

But what was hanging from these... spars... made them build one of the biggest and greatest commercial empires the world has seen. And I mean the sails, of course. :)

On a more serious note, I always admired, sincerely, how they managed, given their demographics.

And I better stop now with the plays on words... :)

Best,

Marc

[Spiridonov]

Collection of museum of artillery in Saint-Petersberg has greatly increased. Some things was removed. I was able to measure one barrel and make quality photos of them. Total length is 1925 mm, calibre is 105 mm:

[Spiridonov]

We can clearly see the marks:

[M ELEY]

Great shots of some of these types, Alexender. I especially love the small brass British ? coehorn mortar. Thanks for the pics!

[fernando]

Great cannon example Alexander.
Thanks for showing.

[Matchlock]

Just excellent images, Alexander! :cool: :eek:


This one sure is a roaring New Year's fire cracker. :rolleyes:

Actually these seem to be two different guns, and I'm not sure which one the scrolled and marked rear finial belongs to.

The one with the hook to me seems to have been made about ca. 1430-40 and it is very nice to see that it retains most of its original painted red lead (minimum) painted surface.


Could you please mail me the images in high resolution? :)

Anxiously waiting to see more of the museum's extended exhibition,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

"Actually these seem to be two different guns, and I'm not sure which one the scrolled and marked rear finial belongs to.
It is one gun.
The one with the hook to me seems to have been made about ca. 1430-40 and it is very nice to see that it retains most of its original painted red lead (minimum) painted surface
I think too. But i think that pan was made later (about 1500 year)
Could you please mail me the images in high resolution?
yes i will
Anxiously waiting to see more of the museum's extended exhibition,
I have not made photos of new thing becaurse i was very hurryed but i whant to make this later.

[Matchlock]

I think too. But i think that pan was made later (about 1500 year)




You are perfectly right, I forgot to point that out. This pan may even have been added as late as the Thirty Years War (1618-1648).

What I feel is most striking: the various deeply struck marks in their armor shields on the rear finial of the long tang! :cool: :eek: I've never seen anything quite like that.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

... What I feel is most striking: the various deeply struck marks in their armor shields on the rear finial of the long tang! :cool: :eek: I've never seen anything quite like that...
Yes; i haven't mentioned that in my previous post, but i was also most impressed with that detail.
Do you feel like digging on such particularity, Michl?

[Matchlock]

Oh yeah, 'Nando,

I dig such lovely details a whole lot! :cool: :eek:

Best,
Michael