Tenegre? & Parang Nabur?

[t_c]

Acquired these two on vacation last week. I'll take a gamble at the name game with Tenegre and Parang Nabur, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Both are about 24" overall, the Parang has a really thick base - a little over 3/8" of an inch and the Tenegre is about 1/4" at the base. I'd welcome any opinions about age, location, etc. One specific question I have is regarding the Tenegre: it has two sets of two parallel marks along the back edge ( I tried to photograph it as best I could). I didn't want to read two much into, but is it possible that they could be "victory marks" (for lack of a better term)? I have the feeling that marks like these have been discussed before - if someone has a link to an old discussion I would appreciate it.

[Maurice]

The one on the bottom is a parang pedang, used by the Borneo coastal malays and milanos.

Maurice

[Amuk Murugul]

Acquired these two on vacation last week. I'll take a gamble at the name game with Tenegre and Parang Nabur, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Both are about 24" overall, the Parang has a really thick base - a little over 3/8" of an inch and the Tenegre is about 1/4" at the base. I'd welcome any opinions about age, location, etc. One specific question I have is regarding the Tenegre: it has two sets of two parallel marks along the back edge ( I tried to photograph it as best I could). I didn't want to read two much into, but is it possible that they could be "victory marks" (for lack of a better term)? I have the feeling that marks like these have been discussed before - if someone has a link to an old discussion I would appreciate it.

Hullo everybody,

The top one looks like a form of Visayan Binagong.

Best,

[t_c]

Thanks for the input.

Maurice - The way the handle is shaped seems to suggest a figural head in profile (I'll try to take better pics when I can). Do you know if this intended to be representative of something?

Amuk Murugal - I'm leaning towards referring to this as a Tenegre rather than a Binagong, the distinction being a flat or forward curved blade on a Binagong whereas the Tenegre has a bellied (convex) edge. This is how I think of it for myself, but I'm not sure if this generalization is appropriate or not...

I am still curious about the markings on the back edge. I know that it was often a simple matter of ornamentation, but the sparsity of these marks made me curious if there was some other meaning.

[Amuk Murugul]

...
Amuk Murugal - I'm leaning towards referring to this as a Tenegre rather than a Binagong, the distinction being a flat or forward curved blade on a Binagong whereas the Tenegre has a bellied (convex) edge. This is how I think of it for myself, but I'm not sure if this generalization is appropriate or not...

I am still curious about the markings on the back edge. I know that it was often a simple matter of ornamentation, but the sparsity of these marks made me curious if there was some other meaning.

Hullo t_c,

You're correct of course. It is a Visayan Tenegre. My apologies. I must be suffering from Alzheimer's.:(

As for the markings... I don't even want to guess, as I don't know the philosophy behind its manufacture.

Best,

[Maurice]

Thanks for the input.

Maurice - The way the handle is shaped seems to suggest a figural head in profile (I'll try to take better pics when I can). Do you know if this intended to be representative of something?


I looked it up in the "Provisional Classification of the Swords of the Sarawak tribes" written by R. Shelford.

About the handle of the parang pedang it says:
"The handle, the shape of which is characteristic of this (even as the latok and buko), is invariably made of wood.
The head of the handle is formed by a forwardly directed knob; the under surface of the knob is concavely curved, and runs into the grip; the upper surface is convexly curved, and is transversely grooved, so that a varied moulding is produced; the sides of the knob are flattened. The grip is served with plaited rattan."

That is all I can find unfortunately.

[KuKulzA28]

Is there a particular difference between Parang Nabur and Parang Pedang?
I have a modern-made pamor Parang Nabur from Valiant Trading Co. and it looks similar to that "Parang Pedang".... and I have seen the Nabur name a lot but not so much the pedang one. Also, I don't know Indonesian history particularly well, but "coastal Malays of Borneo"... that could refer to Iranun, Sabah Moros, Iban, Sea Dayaks, Brunei, etc. right? In all the researching I've done online, it seems they've always been vague about this type of sword's user... Sea Dayak... Iban... European influence... I've seen a picture with it next to a barong I believe, from Sulu... :shrug:

Here's my pamor Parang Nabur...
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/23/14166377.jpg

[Maurice]

Is there a particular difference between Parang Nabur and Parang Pedang?
Do you mean a difference in shape or difference from origin?
The 2 are very different. The Parang Nabur is from South east Asia (Banjarmasin, Negara area). The Parang Pedang is from coastal North Borneo (Sabah). Both used by non-dayaks (however the parang pedang I am not sure, because the ferrule used is also find on the sangkit, a murut tribe weapon).

and I have seen the Nabur name a lot but not so much the pedang one.The Parang Nabur is not so rare as the parang pedang. Therefore you see much more about the Nabur name. By the way the inland name of the parang nabur was Beladah Belabang.

but "coastal Malays of Borneo"... that could refer to Iranun, Sabah Moros, Iban, Sea Dayaks, Brunei, etc. right?
It doesn't refer to Iranun or moros. They are from the South philipines, but also have settlements in Sabah, and have taken their kampilans,morokrisses and barong with them.

It also doesn't refer to the Iban (other name, same tribe: Sea dayaks), and lived in another area of Borneo, Sarawak. They were no malays, but dayaks.

[KuKulzA28]

:o:shrug: I guess I've got a lot more to learn... thanks

so my modern blade would have a Parang Pedang blade with a Nabur handle? :confused:

[Maurice]

:o:shrug: I guess I've got a lot more to learn... thanks

so my modern blade would have a Parang Pedang blade with a Nabur handle? :confused:IMO it is no parang pedang blade, and certainly no nabur handle?:rolleyes:
But I do like Suwandi's (Valiant Trading Co) blades......:cool:

[t_c]

Thanks for all the info so far Maurice.
Here is the picture of the handle profile I was referring to earlier. I've annotated it with my interpretation - it seemed like a representation of some animal/deity/other... It's definitely abstract, but it struck me that there was something more to the carving than simple ornate grooves. :shrug:
I'm hoping someone has some deeper insights into the culture that produced it.

[KuKulzA28]

IMO it is no parang pedang blade, and certainly no nabur handle?:rolleyes:
But I do like Suwandi's (Valiant Trading Co) blades......:cool:
I like them too, very much, but I'm confused. What exactly is it then? :shrug: :confused:

[Maurice]

Thanks for all the info so far Maurice.
Here is the picture of the handle profile I was referring to earlier. I've annotated it with my interpretation - it seemed like a representation of some animal/deity/other... It's definitely abstract, but it struck me that there was something more to the carving than simple ornate grooves. :shrug:
I'm hoping someone has some deeper insights into the culture that produced it.Sorry tc, I can't tell you more or it would only be speculatians. If any other forumite have some additional (documented) info, I also would appreciate telling us in this thread.

I like them too, very much, but I'm confused. What exactly is it then? :shrug: :confused:.Well, it is a newly made weapon, and I think you should ask Suwandi which swords he used as example. The handle looks more like a klewang that was used in the same area as the parang nabur (and was much rarer, cause in 1900 they were already not to be found in that area anymore).
I attached a banjarklewang handle and a parang nabur handle for comparison.

[KuKulzA28]

Thanks Maurice! I'll be going off to do some research now! ;)

[Maurice]

Do you have a scabbard at the parang pedang t_c?

[t_c]

No, unfortunately there was no scabbard.