Origin of the Jawa Demam hilt form

[Alam Shah]

Hi all,

These questions had been lingering in my mind for a long time..

Where did the 'Jawa Demam' hilt form come from? What inspired it?
By what other name is it known as? local dialect, etc?
How does it evolved?

Any theory, thoughts, stories, folklore.. etc, are welcomed. :)

[Alam Shah]

Sumatran styled 'Jawa Demam' hilt variants.

[Alam Shah]

Malay Peninsular styled 'Jawa Demam' hilt variants..

[Sajen]

Hello Alam,
I think this will be very difficult to find out from where it come from. But maybe, and this is only a guess from me, it's origin is Cirebon.
You remember this threat:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4594&highlight=tegal

But maybe it will be nice when we can see in this threat many different Jawa Demam hilts. I also have some.
sajen

[Alam Shah]

Hello Alam,
I think this will be very difficult to find out from where it come from. But maybe, and this is only a guess from me, it's origin is Cirebon.
You remember this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4594&highlight=tegal

But maybe it will be nice when we can see in this thread many different Jawa Demam hilts. I also have some.
sajenAh! yes.. thanks sajen for that thread, there's a pointer there.. bring the hilt pictures on.. ;)

[rasdan]

Probably

[Alam Shah]

ProbablyDiety(?) form with a garuda mungkur on its back, which evolved into its present simplified form..

Thanks Rasdan for the illustrations. :)

[rasdan]

Sorry i have to delete the "captions". Its not related to the hilt.

[Alam Shah]

Hi Rasdan,

I've took the liberty of re-labelling the pic.

[Alam Shah]

2nd pic.

[rasdan]

Cool.. Forgot to write blu's name there. Thanks.

[Sajen]

Here some of my Jawa Demam handles. Please excuse the not best quality of the pictures and the dust. :rolleyes:
The first handle is from ivory and my guess is that it is a North Sumatra handle, maybe Gayo.

[Sajen]

A very old ivory handle with unusual flat head.
Tomorrow I will upload some more.
sajen

[Alam Shah]

Thanks Sajen,
Nice old ivory hilts.. :)

[Sajen]

An old ivory ornamental Palembang hilt.

[Sajen]

A big ivory hilt with a hole in the head, maybe for a jimat stone.

[Sajen]

A wooden hilt from the nort cost from Sumatra with metal nose and eyes.

[Sajen]

A molar hilt from Minangkabau I show in this threat:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8761

[Sajen]

An ivory Pattani hilt from hippotamus tooth.
sajen

[David]

Hi Sajen. Thanks for the examples (and everyone else as well :) ) I have an ivory one that is sort of similar to yours so i made some quick shots for comparison. :)

[Alam Shah]

I have an ivory one that is sort of similar to yours so i made some quick shots for comparison. :)Beautiful piece, it would be nice to see the blade, though. Looks like a malela or carita blade. ;)

[Sajen]

Hi Sajen. Thanks for the examples (and everyone else as well :) ) I have an ivory one that is sort of similar to yours so i made some quick shots for comparison. :)

Yes, agree with Alam, beautiful handle. Is it also from Hippo? Will be nice to see the complete keris.
sajen

[David]

Thanks for the comments guys. I would rather not side track this conversation with blades. Let's keep the discussion focussed on hilt forms. :)
Sajen, i must admit that i just don't know the ivory source.I can usually recognize marine ivory, but i am afraid that distinguishing between hippo and elephant is not something i am very good at. I was going to ask you how you knew yours was hippo. :shrug: :)

[jonng]

Interesting topic Shahrial, and I would like to know more too. Who coined the term "Jawa Demam" and when was it first used? Does "Jawa Demam" really refer to a sick Javanese?
These hilts sure look like some powerful all knowing ancestral squatting figures/ heroes/ gods to me rather than a sick Javanese down with the cold/ flu. The explanation that the hands are wrapped around the legs/ body because he is shivering because of his fever is rather mischievous. Could the Javanese have coined this term to mock their old rivals kerises in the past? if so, why did the people in the malay peninsular accept such a derogatory term for their hilts? Were they trying to distance themselves from their past beliefs?

[David]

Good line of questioning Jonng. I have always been told that the name refers to the posture of the abstract figure. One arm goes across the belly and the figure is bent over as if sick to his stomach. But i suppose this jester could just as easily be a bow. :shrug:
I am not convinced that the Jawa Demam is related to the squatting figures. The body positions appear quite different to me. In the squatting figures the hands are generally on the knees and they are, of course, squatting which i don't believe is the intended body position of the Jawa Demam. :shrug: :)

[BluErf]

I'm not sure if we will ever get satisfactory answers to this question.

Anyway, here's a hilt I got off ebay a while back. Very interesting form. Dave has a specimen which may even predate this, but I can't find pics. Maybe it is in Spirit of Wood.

[Sajen]

Sajen, i must admit that i just don't know the ivory source.I can usually recognize marine ivory, but i am afraid that distinguishing between hippo and elephant is not something i am very good at. I was going to ask you how you knew yours was hippo. :shrug: :)


When you look to the first pic of my handle you see on the left side of his back a line of black dots, this you only can see by hippo ivory.
sajen

[Sajen]

I'm not sure if we will ever get satisfactory answers to this question.

Anyway, here's a hilt I got off ebay a while back. Very interesting form. Dave has a specimen which may even predate this, but I can't find pics. Maybe it is in Spirit of Wood.


Very interesting handle, the hands rest on the knees. Never seen before by a Jawa Demam.
M. Kerner write in his book "Keris-Griffe aus Museen und Privatsammlungen" about basic position I and basic position II. Position II is when the figure crossed the arms over the breast like the Jawa Demam and position I when the hands rest on the knees like the Cirebon handles and he guess that the position I is the more old form.
sajen

[jonng]

Hi David,

That the gesture is a bow is I think probable (and could have evolved later?). That the "arm goes across the belly and the figure is bent over as if sick to the stomach" is to me a bit difficult to accept because I cannot see any in my collection or those that have been put up here having the arm going across the stomach. All of them seems to have the right arm going across the chest (or do I see them wrong?!).
Have the carvers made some mistakes in their carving or interpretation some time in the past? If not, regarding posture I often see these two:
1. squatting or sitting on something (very low) with both knees up, right elbow slightly over or resting on the right knee.
2. semi-kneeling/ half squat position, right knee up with the right elbow resting on it and left knee on the ground.
The right arm looks to be above the stomach in all these forms. Of course I could have seen them all wrong so I'm really grateful this thread came up.

Jonathan

[Sajen]

Hi David,

That the gesture is a bow is I think probable (and could have evolved later?). That the "arm goes across the belly and the figure is bent over as if sick to the stomach" is to me a bit difficult to accept because I cannot see any in my collection or those that have been put up here having the arm going across the stomach. All of them seems to have the right arm going across the chest (or do I see them wrong?!).
Have the carvers made some mistakes in their carving or interpretation some time in the past? If not, regarding posture I often see these two:
1. squatting or sitting on something (very low) with both knees up, right elbow slightly over or resting on the right knee.
2. semi-kneeling/ half squat position, right knee up with the right elbow resting on it and left knee on the ground.
The right arm looks to be above the stomach in all these forms. Of course I could have seen them all wrong so I'm really grateful this thread came up.

Jonathan


Hello Jonathan,

from the same book is this reduced drawing of this position. So the left knee is not on the ground. The leg is more or less straight. When you see the handles from the North-East coast of Java it is correct.
sajen

[erikscollectables]

Here some from my collection.
Sorry for the poor quality of the pics.
This was all I could do at the moment...

Regards, Erik

[David]

That the gesture is a bow is I think probable (and could have evolved later?). That the "arm goes across the belly and the figure is bent over as if sick to the stomach" is to me a bit difficult to accept because I cannot see any in my collection or those that have been put up here having the arm going across the stomach. All of them seems to have the right arm going across the chest (or do I see them wrong?!).
Have the carvers made some mistakes in their carving or interpretation some time in the past? If not, regarding posture I often see these two:
1. squatting or sitting on something (very low) with both knees up, right elbow slightly over or resting on the right knee.
2. semi-kneeling/ half squat position, right knee up with the right elbow resting on it and left knee on the ground.
The right arm looks to be above the stomach in all these forms. Of course I could have seen them all wrong so I'm really grateful this thread came up.

Jonathan, i am not asking you to accept that the arm goes across the stomach or the chest as i am not making a case for either. It doesn't seem to me that you can really be sure way or another considering the abstractness of the hilt form. My point is that at some time, someone apparently saw the arm as being across the stomach in a stooped over posture, ergo the name Jawa Demam, the "sick Javanese". At least this is what i have been told. This does not in any way prove what the original intent of the body posture may have been. If it is possible we might want to try to nail down when this name for this hilt form first came into fashion and explore what other names, if any, may have been used for it.

[A. G. Maisey]

G.B. Gardner, Keris and Other Malay Weapons, 1936.

The Jawa Demam.

The legend is as follows:-

A certain raja called his pandai besi and ordered him to make a keris hilt that was unlike any other, or lose his life. The keris maker could not think what to do , but as night came on, it grew cold and the raja who had a fever (demam) pulled his sarung up, and hugged himself to keep warm. Then the keris maker carved a hilt in his likeness. This, at any rate is the story; but I think the use of a figure is to give luck to the keris.

[David]

Alan, is this name found in any writings that you know of previous to Gardner?

[A. G. Maisey]

Off the top of my head, no, David.

Stone calls these figural demon-like hilts "raksha". I can't remember reading these terms in any other early writings. Might be a good idea to have a look at Raffles. The Ying Yai Sheng Lan --- 15th century--- refers to "--- human or devils faces---", so the Chinese percieved them as such also.

You could also call some of these "raksasa" style hilts "buta".

[A. G. Maisey]

Checked Raffles:- no reference there that I can find.

[David]

Stone calls these figural demon-like hilts "raksha". I can't remember reading these terms in any other early writings. Might be a good idea to have a look at Raffles. The Ying Yai Sheng Lan --- 15th century--- refers to "--- human or devils faces---", so the Chinese percieved them as such also.
You could also call some of these "raksasa" style hilts "buta".
This is just my personal observation, but i really think we are looking at 2 completely different hilt form developments here. I can't help but think that the figures crouching with their hands on their knees are a distinctly different intention than the ones most often referred to as Jawa Demam, with the one crossed arm. To me these are 2 completely different postures that seem to convey different cultural attitudes. Though i can't claim to know what exactly, each of these postures seems to be telling me a different story. It is the squatting, hands on knees variety that i am more likely to associate with raksasa.
I do find Kai Wee's example in post #26 puzzling though as it does appear to be a hybrid of both these forms, but i have not seen too many that do that. :shrug:

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm sorry David, but I cannot pursue this discussion.

I know too little about the subject to make any worthwhile remarks or to formulate any even vaguely supportable theories.

But I will say this:-

I can see more than just two sources for keris hilt origin. There are the giants, the ogres, the spirits, the demons, the deities, the wayang characters, and perhaps even the ancestors. Then there are the purely vegetable forms and purely animal and bird forms. There are also the rarest of the rare:- the naturally occurring forms that are adapted for use as keris hilts. There are many sources for keris hilt motifs.

But how, when, where and why I simply cannot theorise on.

[A. G. Maisey]

Here are a few of my hilts of this type, mixed in with others---sorry.

[jonng]

I will put up some of my hilts for further discussions later when I have the time to photograpgh them. But I need to point this out. I think the carvers are quite observant and they do not carve without taking the natural body posture into considerations. To me the Minang and Palembang (Sumatra), and Malaysian "Jawa Demam" forms are quite similar. They have the right elbow over the right knee and no matter what the posture is, I think it is extremely awkward to be able to get the right forearm across the stomach!

Yes Sajen I agree the left leg of hilts from the north east coast/ Cirebon? or Raksasa form is more or less straight. These tend to have the right elbow just touching or just above the right knee and the toes pointing downwards which would suggest sitting on the edge of something high to me.

I have seen only a few suggesting the left knee touching the ground and these are I believe Sumatran in origin. Will try to find them.

[jonng]

here's some

[jonng]

is the motif near the base (where I think the ankles are) the anklets? it's just a simple horizontal line on the Big Minang? "jawa Demam.

[jonng]

more

[jonng]

more for comparison

[Marcokeris]

another simple brass form (the ring is not right...but i like it)

[David]

I'm sorry David, but I cannot pursue this discussion.

I know too little about the subject to make any worthwhile remarks or to formulate any even vaguely supportable theories.

But I will say this:-

I can see more than just two sources for keris hilt origin. There are the giants, the ogres, the spirits, the demons, the deities, the wayang characters, and perhaps even the ancestors. Then there are the purely vegetable forms and purely animal and bird forms. There are also the rarest of the rare:- the naturally occurring forms that are adapted for use as keris hilts. There are many sources for keris hilt motifs.

But how, when, where and why I simply cannot theorise on.
I see your points Alan and of course i agree that there are more than 2 sources for hilt origins. I was merely pointing out that it seems to me that in this discussionnwe are trying to find a single origin for at least 2 (probably more) distinctly different forms. In other words, i am not convinced that the hilt form that we have come to know as "Jawa Demam" is an abstracted evolution of the hilt form that we have come to recognize as "raksasa".
And Jonathan, i am not sure you understood me fully. Whether the arm is intended to cross the stomach or the chest was not meant to be an arguing point. You questioned why this hilt was called the Feverish Javanese, calling it a derogatory term. I was merely relaying one explanation for that, that perhaps the posture was misinterpreted at some point and the story spread. I am not convinced that the original intent of the form was to portray a sick person, but this is the name in common usage. However, i am not really hopeful that we will ever be able to uncover the original intent or name if there is one. The questions are good but the answers are impossibly elusive and unfortunately much has been lost to time. :shrug:
So can anyone accurately determine when the Jawa Demam hilt first appeared? Are there any hilts with established provenance? Does the name Java Demam appear in any documentation before Gardner? Was Gardner mislead or perhaps just confused?

[BluErf]

I do find Kai Wee's example in post #26 puzzling though as it does appear to be a hybrid of both these forms, but i have not seen too many that do that. :shrug:

Dave's example is probably even older. It even has a facial features on the face, and it does not look like a rashaksa; more like a old man. Maybe I'll try to ask him to post a pic. But even then, it probably won't help much with the discussion on origins. :D

[Lew]

Interesting topic. Would this qualify as one?

[Mick]

Here's another vote for Cirebon being the origin of this figure.

[erikscollectables]

Here is another.
Does this qualify as Jawa Demam or maybe a Raksasa (see the Raksasa/Figur al discussion).

It is much less stylized than the other Jawa Demam's I have.
Much more figural and less "bird" like so to say.
I think it also has the fangs that would make it a raksassa type of hilt.
On the other hand the crossed arm is quite typical I think or not?

Would like to hear your opinions.

Regards, Erik

[jonng]

Dear Eric,

The hilt you just posted look like a newly carved one. Is it new?

B/rgds,
jonathan

[erikscollectables]

Dear Eric,

The hilt you just posted look like a newly carved one. Is it new?

B/rgds,
jonathan

As far as I know it is from the 1950s and brought from Sumatra to the Netherlands in that period.

So not new but quite recent.

It is very well carved (in horn) that is why I kept it despite the relative young age it has. It is th eodd one out in my collection but i like it nevertheless

Regards, Erik

[erikscollectables]

Here another example of a cross over.
A figural hilt with crossed arms like the the Jawa Demam but also with Fanks like an ogre/demon.

Would this qualify as a Jawa Demam?

It is a nice old ivory example.

Regards, Erik

[David]

Erik, i can't answer you question, but i did want to say that you seem to have a wonderful collection of figural hilts. :)
A old hilt like this, with the ogre-like qualities such as fangs and the crossed over arm posture of the Jawa Demam is indeed very interesting. What i am most curious about is if there is a specific meaning to this crossed over arm posture. Does it have a specific cultural significance? Likewise does the hands on knees posture also have cultural significance? Are the meanings here different or doesn't it matter? :shrug: :)

[erikscollectables]

Erik, i can't answer you question, but i did want to say that you seem to have a wonderful collection of figural hilts. :)
A old hilt like this, with the ogre-like qualities such as fangs and the crossed over arm posture of the Jawa Demam is indeed very interesting. What i am most curious about is if there is a specific meaning to this crossed over arm posture. Does it have a specific cultural significance? Likewise does the hands on knees posture also have cultural significance? Are the meanings here different or doesn't it matter? :shrug: :)

Thanks, in fact the collection is quite small but I do try to improve the quality of the collection continuously and I try to learn from the items I have as much as I can.

I am interested in the same question as you are.
In fact I have four hilts that are almost the same and have lot of characteristics that they all have. This must be the same character (the one I used to call Raksasa in being the flesh eating demon).
It has the hand position you mention.

I will try to make an overview of the characteristics.
If anaybody can positively identify this character that would be very nice!

I'll post it as a seperate thread.

Regards, Erik

[erikscollectables]

Hi David,

I just did what I should have done immediately.
I reread the krisdisk and it has a lot of the answers.
Regarding my earlier question regarding the cross over type:
if you have the disk chapter 4 on Cirebon read page 10.

Regards, Erik

[BluErf]

Just to share, Adni has 3 hilts in his inventory, which came in at different times, of the same rashaksa form with arms crossed-over like the jawa demam. The hilts were probably made in the earlier part of the 20th century as well. The keris hilts are probably still evolving as we speak.

[drdavid]

If I might refer back to something you mentioned Alan

I can see more than just two sources for keris hilt origin. There are the giants, the ogres, the spirits, the demons, the deities, the wayang characters, and perhaps even the ancestors. Then there are the purely vegetable forms and purely animal and bird forms. There are also the rarest of the rare:- the naturally occurring forms that are adapted for use as keris hilts. There are many sources for keris hilt motifs.

What do you mean by the naturally occurring hilt forms that are adapted for use as a keris hilt? Do you have any examples that you could show?

If the moderators feel it would be better that this be a separate question please split this topic off

drdavid

[A. G. Maisey]

Probably the most rare and most prized of all keris hilts is the hilt that is a natural object, say a piece of root-wood, that has a form making it suitable for immediate use as a hilt, and with only the finishing to be carried out.

I have only ever seen two hilts of this type, and I own only one.

I will put up a photo tomorrow if I have the light.

[erikscollectables]

Probably the most rare and most prized of all keris hilts is the hilt that is a natural object, say a piece of root-wood, that has a form making it suitable for immediate use as a hilt, and with only the finishing to be carried out.

I have only ever seen two hilts of this type, and I own only one.

I will put up a photo tomorrow if I have the light.

Interesting, look forward to this. To whom would this type have been valuable? People with money, nobility or religious people?

Erik

[A. G. Maisey]

The people to whom this type of hilt was and is most attractive are those with a strong belief in the esoteric.

[drdavid]

Thanks Alan for posting this most interesting piece. How much do you think it has been 'altered' from its native state? (By altered I mean carved). This piece is much more sophisticated than your average bit of tree branch, it looks like roots or vines were wrapped around it as it grew and it has that sense of a respectful bow about it.

It raises a question for me. Is it possible that the most primitive of keris hilts were all just a bent piece of tree root or similar? Given what is known about the first appearance of the keris compared to the development of the plastic arts at the same time this seems unlikely, but I would appreciate others opinions?

drdavid

We get interesting root forms from under the sand roads here on Cape Cod . :)
Here's one I altered a bit, (3 faces, cloven hoof) that I found in the woods on an old cart path in Wellfleet 30 years ago . :D

[A. G. Maisey]

David, as far as I can see there has been virtually no real carving of this hilt, but there has been cleaning up and finishing, of course the ferrule area has been regularised to allow fitting.

The modern keris developed from a fairly refined dagger used in an overhand action. I am certain that the original hilts used for the early versions of the modern keris would have been at least as refined as their predecessors. This is borne out by the comments in the Ying-yai Sheng-lan, which dates from about 1416.

This type of natural hilt is not indicative of a line of development, but rather of the esoteric beliefs of humanity.

[Jussi M.]

Up!

Is this thread not a candidate for becoming a "classic"?

:)

Thanks,

J.

[Rick]

Done, and thanks ! :)

[ganjawulung]

Another example, almost similar -- but of course not the same -- as Alan's. A friend of mine, a Palembang origin gentleman, called this style of hilt as "Palembang Pagaralam" hilt. Simple form, almost like "natural" bending wood... According to this Palembang gentleman, Pagaralam style geographically from between Palembang (South Sumatra) and Padang (West Sumatra)...

Another thread, related to Jawa Demam discussion:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6477&highlight=jawa+demam

GANJAWULUNG

[Aji™]

And i guess here's the link to the natural ones.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11822

[ganjawulung]

@Aji, Thanks for reminding me on the name of this hilt,

I am still tracing the original name of this kind of hilt, that you mentioned in another thread as "gana hilt". It could be possible that your information is correct, if we consider that the literaly meaning of "gana" is more or less, "a flock of lower grade of gods, or demigods which once believed to be Shiwa's follower, headed by ganesha..." according to PJ Zoetmulder & SO Robson...

As I mentioned another name, "pagaralam hilt" of course, if we consider the locality. It is more "geographical name", as my Sumatran friend called this type of hilt.

Pagaralam itself, is a semi-autonomous region in South Sumatra -- Between Palembang (South Sumatra) and Padang (West Sumatra). More precisely, Pagaralam is an 636.000 square meter autonomous region of Lahat, with a population of about 119.000 people. It consists of five districts: Dempo Selatan (or South Dempo), Dempo Tengah (Central Dempo), Dempo Utara (North Dempo), Pagaralam Selatan (South Pagaralam) and Pagaralam Utara (North Pagaralam).

This special South Sumatran region at the foot of Mt Dempo has a couple of archaeological sites, with more than 26 menhir sites (megalithicum sites), some sites of palaeolithical statues and at least 33 natural water falls... (according to a certain source).

Anyway, thanks a lot Aji, for your very useful info...

GANJAWULUNG