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Author Topic:   Kare to Komment on this Koumaya?
Mare Rosu
Member
posted 07-17-2004 07:36     Click Here to See the Profile for Mare Rosu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Hi! to this most knowledgeable, learned, blade inspectors on the web.
Is this a common fairly new Moroccan Koumaya that I have just ordered? It has a silver handle and sheath.
I say that from the newly acquired knowledge that I have gotten from this site. I blame all you good folks for getting me started in this "collecting" game.
EGB
Mare Rosu

[This message has been edited by Mare Rosu (edited 07-21-2004).]

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nechesh
Senior Member
posted 07-17-2004 11:39     Click Here to See the Profile for nechesh   Click Here to Email nechesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mare Rosu:
. I blame all you good folks for getting me started in this "collecting" game.

Yes, we can be very evil in that way.

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Mare Rosu
Member
posted 07-17-2004 11:55     Click Here to See the Profile for Mare Rosu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. Mechesh you almost got it right but my friend the word is EEEEEVIL and you folks are that way through to the core!
EGB


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RhysMichael
Senior Member
posted 07-17-2004 12:12     Click Here to See the Profile for RhysMichael   Click Here to Email RhysMichael     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mare you have probably already been there but there is a good link on these in the Resource part of this site. I do know that most I have seen have crudely made blades. So if you have gotten one with a good blade you are lucky. Some of these have a rams head hallmark that I have read they started using on them after 1925

[This message has been edited by RhysMichael (edited 07-17-2004).]

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Smilodon Fatalis
Senior Member
posted 07-17-2004 14:37     Click Here to See the Profile for Smilodon Fatalis   Click Here to Email Smilodon Fatalis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gene, I will return to write my ,,theory,, on this a little later but just want it to say that is good to have you back MARE ROSU ! Always liked your daggers and sense of humour ! Also your photo skill improved much ... I wonder why ?

[This message has been edited by Smilodon Fatalis (edited 07-17-2004).]

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Oriental-Arms
Senior Member
posted 07-17-2004 15:33     Click Here to See the Profile for Oriental-Arms   Click Here to Email Oriental-Arms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice dagger Earl. I think mid 20C. or earlier. Very well made blade. Please notice the well defined edges and the shallow fuller on the non-sharpen convex side. (Please see my comment on another Koumaya posted on the forum). The metal work - are you sure it is silver?? looks brass to me - is of good quality. Altogether a decent piece.

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Mare Rosu
Member
posted 07-17-2004 16:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Mare Rosu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. Fat a Lis (I think that's right)
I have to learn in order to stay up with you forum folks.
Like a lead dog needs to stay out in front, or something like that.
I thank you for your pending (K)comments, But SIR! I do not need theories, I want just FACTS. Gees, you would think by now you would have it right.
I am just having a little fun with all you good folks on this forum. However I do expect to be cutoff any day now by the Head Honchos (see, I also know Latin!) of this forum.

Mr. Antzi,
I thank you for you information. No it is silver, however very dirty and tarnished, but the Chamois used as a background did make it look brassy. Now that brings up another question (dumb?) just what can one do on an old dagger as to cleaning it up. I know enough from the comments from the forum folks here not to sharpen one, but just what can I do to it? I sure would like to hit that sucker with "Simichrome" then you would know that it is silver thats for sure.
Thanks all,this maybe my last post as the Head Honchos (could that be German?) are watching.
EGB

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Smilodon Fatalis
Senior Member
posted 07-18-2004 03:15     Click Here to See the Profile for Smilodon Fatalis   Click Here to Email Smilodon Fatalis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

My verdict: Superior quality vintage Moroccan (possibly Tunisian) Koumiya.
Due to this one posting today and the one yesterday, I tried to refresh my memory in regards to the Koumiya daggers.
First I want to start by saying that there is a great deal of injustice that has been brought to this dagger by not being studied enough or at least not being represented in well circulated modern books of specialty (like ,,Collectors guide swords, daggers and cutlasses,, or ,,Sword and hilt weapons,, or Cameron Stones,,Glossary...'" ). Very little literature covered regardless this is one of the most out there and easy to obtain ethnic blade due to the large ammounts on the market. Traditionally the blades are bad (yes that is a good word : bad ; and I am not afraid of using it and seems like the newer they get the more true that is). That does not apply to the scabbard and hilts, they are always very elaborate and it eludes me why such blade in such casing. For that very often silver is used preffered over brass (do not remember not even one leather or wood scabbard) but normally its a ,,spoiled silver,, a mixture of metals.
It is probably because of the post-WWI infusion of ,,tourist,, grade Koumiyas why discriminating armorial collector is shy on going for them.
That is wrong : they are beautiful and can be lethal and more than anything they are a cultural symbol of the north Africa. Hence my ,,politically incorect,, character I say good sources are the former colonial European ,,dominatrix,, powers and in the case of North Africa, French are the ones .
Another frequent injustice done is to refer to a Koumiya authomatically as ,,Morocann,,. Not good ! Why? : Morocco is the most productive source yet not the unique source, there are also Tunisia,Algeria, Egypt at least.I would refer to it rather as Moorish (not politically correct enough) but to me ,,Berber dagger,, makes most sense.
French sources (which I find to be best at the moment) state that an asymetric ricasso like yours qualifies the dagger as being Moroccan however the hilt vaguelly resembles a Tunisian model present in the book.
I like the blade on yours is well defined. Even though a more recent piece, no Berber man would back on wearing it as garment piece, which in my opinion qualifies it as ,,vintage made,, but of ,,good traditional craftsmanship and materials,,. At least until finding a better one, this is a keeper. See the comments on the one from yesterday for more aspects. Like my style goes here is a pic of the owners ,,now and then,, young-bloodz & old skool :

P.S. Speaking of evil, Lucifer says we have to work on getting you a Saudi Jambiya and a Iranian Pesh-Kabz and more or less your ,,kollection,, covers the main daggers of the Arab world. Time to look for a nice rosewood and velvet display kase soon, my dear Mare Rosu ! I would always like to visually prey on your pieces !
Huh, my beer is warm now ...

[This message has been edited by Smilodon Fatalis (edited 07-18-2004).]

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Smilodon Fatalis
Senior Member
posted 07-18-2004 13:52     Click Here to See the Profile for Smilodon Fatalis   Click Here to Email Smilodon Fatalis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those who want to look into a more complete Berber panoply don`t miss the following :

NIMCHA ( sometimes reffer to as ,,Saif,, which is really meaning just ,,sword,, in many Arabic dialects ) :


FLYSSA (the Kabyles sword)


Long version

Short version

MOUKHALA (the Berber musket]

TUFEK
(the Ottoman flintlock, adopted by many North Africans, Kabyles specially)

Berber styled flintlock PISTOLS


[This message has been edited by Smilodon Fatalis (edited 07-18-2004).]

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nechesh
Senior Member
posted 07-18-2004 14:34     Click Here to See the Profile for nechesh   Click Here to Email nechesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just an aside to the subject Radu, i would like to comment on how appreciative i am of the fact that your posts tend to be so prolifically illustrative. It's just wonderful. Keep the pictures coming!

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Mare Rosu
Member
posted 07-18-2004 15:07     Click Here to See the Profile for Mare Rosu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Smilodon Fatalis:

My verdict: Superior quality vintage Moroccan (possibly Tunisian) Koumiya.
Due to this one posting today and the one yesterday, I tried to refresh my memory in regards to the Koumiya daggers.
First I want to start by saying that there is a great deal of injustice that has been brought to this dagger by not being studied enough or at least not being represented in well circulated modern books of specialty (like ,,Collectors guide swords, daggers and cutlasses,, or ,,Sword and hilt weapons,, or Cameron Stones,,Glossary...'" ). Very little literature covered regardless this is one of the most out there and easy to obtain ethnic blade due to the large ammounts on the market. Traditionally the blades are bad (yes that is a good word : bad ; and I am not afraid of using it and seems like the newer they get the more true that is). That does not apply to the scabbard and hilts, they are always very elaborate and it eludes me why such blade in such casing. For that very often silver is used preffered over brass (do not remember not even one leather or wood scabbard) but normally its a ,,spoiled silver,, a mixture of metals.
It is probably because of the post-WWI infusion of ,,tourist,, grade Koumiyas why discriminating armorial collector is shy on going for them.
That is wrong : they are beautiful and can be lethal and more than anything they are a cultural symbol of the north Africa. Hence my ,,politically incorect,, character I say good sources are the former colonial European ,,dominatrix,, powers and in the case of North Africa, French are the ones .
Another frequent injustice done is to refer to a Koumiya authomatically as ,,Morocann,,. Not good ! Why? : Morocco is the most productive source yet not the unique source, there are also Tunisia,Algeria, Egypt at least.I would refer to it rather as Moorish (not politically correct enough) but to me ,,Berber dagger,, makes most sense.
French sources (which I find to be best at the moment) state that an asymetric ricasso like yours qualifies the dagger as being Moroccan however the hilt vaguelly resembles a Tunisian model present in the book.
I like the blade on yours is well defined. Even though a more recent piece, no Berber man would back on wearing it as garment piece, which in my opinion qualifies it as ,,vintage made,, but of ,,good traditional craftsmanship and materials,,. At least until finding a better one, this is a keeper. See the comments on the one from yesterday for more aspects. Like my style goes here is a pic of the owners ,,now and then,, young-bloodz & old skool :

P.S. Speaking of evil, Lucifer says we have to work on getting you a Saudi Jambiya and a Iranian Pesh-Kabz and more or less your ,,kollection,, covers the main daggers of the Arab world. Time to look for a nice rosewood and velvet display kase soon,...."my dear Mare Rosu ! I would always like to visually prey on your pieces !"....
Huh, my beer is warm now ...


[This message has been edited by Smilodon Fatalis (edited 07-18-2004).]


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Mare Rosu
Member
posted 07-18-2004 15:27     Click Here to See the Profile for Mare Rosu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well now Mr Fatalis I copied your post to make sure I got it all and put quotes around a statement you made. I did not want to repeat it with this Post, but just what do you have in mind when you say You "want to inspect my pieces"?
Mr Mechesh,
I could not agree with you more with what you posted Mr Radu is is without a doubt, to me anyway, the most prolific person on this site. Makes one think he has a personal interest in each person he replies to.
He will give you your "money worth" thats for sure. I thank him for it as well as you do. I also wish he would write a book about with all his knowledge it would be a great source for weapons identification and information, and Lord knows I need all the help I can get!
EGB

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Smilodon Fatalis
Senior Member
posted 07-18-2004 17:31     Click Here to See the Profile for Smilodon Fatalis   Click Here to Email Smilodon Fatalis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am nothing special: ,,To teach is just the best excuse to learn ! `` . However , its good to be me sometimes ... Mare Rosu, fear no evil !

[This message has been edited by Smilodon Fatalis (edited 07-18-2004).]

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Andrew
EEWRS Staff
posted 07-18-2004 22:20     Click Here to See the Profile for Andrew   Click Here to Email Andrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Having fun, gentlemen?

Earl, please try to spell my name correctly, at least.

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Mare Rosu
Member
posted 07-18-2004 22:56     Click Here to See the Profile for Mare Rosu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My most sincere apologies to Mr "Head Honcho",
also named Mr. Andrews, I have a feeling that I am getting close to being excommunicated from this forum. (I hear that Florida Lawyers will do that in a heart beat, I lived in Crystal River for quite a few years).
I hope YOU are having fun, Mr. Andrews, as I sure am, acquiring new information and "meeting" new friends, a combination that is hard to beat.
I hope that I did not offend you in anyway, I can't afford to offend my sources of information, at this late date in my life. In the future I will TRY to stick to the subject matter. I am in my 70th year and I blame it on "Senior Moments"
I stated in my first post that with your help you may have created a monster, now you know what I was alluding to.
EGB
Mare Rosu

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VANDOO
Senior Member
posted 07-19-2004 00:12     Click Here to See the Profile for VANDOO   Click Here to Email VANDOO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WE ARE A PRETTY TOLERANT BUNCH HERE ON THE FORUM AND STRIVE TO
AVOID CONFLICT AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS ALL OF WHICH ARE COMMON
AMONG HUMANS. WE ENJOY A DISCUSSION OF OPPOSITE VIEWS
ON THINGS AND TRY TO SEE BOTH SIDES AND LEARN FROM THEM
AND PERHAPS COME UP WITH A THIRD IDEA TO THROW INTO THE MIX.


POLITICKS, RELIGION AND PRICES BEING THE ONLY TOPICS
WE TRY TO AVOID AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

UNFORTUNATELY THE BAD LAWYERS AND CASES HAVE GIVEN THE
PROFESSION OF LAWYER A BAD REPUTATION AND THERE ARE
SOME BAD ONES OUT THERE LOOKING FOR A BUCK AND NOT CAREING
HOW THEY GET IT. IT IS GOOD TO HAVE SOME LAWYERS TO
LOOK AFTER US AND KEEP US SAFE FROM THE SHARKS.
IT MIGHT ALSO COME IN HANDY TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO CAN TRANSLATE
LEGALEESE AT SOME TIME
I DOUBT YOU WILL BE BANNED UNLESS YOU WORK AT IT,
WELCOME TO THE FORUM MR ROSU

[This message has been edited by VANDOO (edited 07-19-2004).]

[This message has been edited by VANDOO (edited 07-19-2004).]

[This message has been edited by VANDOO (edited 07-19-2004).]

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Smilodon Fatalis
Senior Member
posted 07-19-2004 02:57     Click Here to See the Profile for Smilodon Fatalis   Click Here to Email Smilodon Fatalis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hehehe, I plead for Mare Rosu`s innocence but he needs to commit to a better name spelling and to stop posing as victim ... EEWRS is not Inquisition and ,,Andrews,, is not Torquemeda, this is too funny but off topic... Just keep the new knives comming, Earl and I shall do the book ...
PS: Earl, you need to post your mugshot just like anyone else, we need to have fun too...

[This message has been edited by Smilodon Fatalis (edited 07-19-2004).]

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nechesh
Senior Member
posted 07-19-2004 06:38     Click Here to See the Profile for nechesh   Click Here to Email nechesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps Mr. Eels justs needs a bit of his own medicine.

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Mare Rosu
Member
posted 07-19-2004 10:06     Click Here to See the Profile for Mare Rosu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. ANDREW! BINGO!!
I now know what I have been doing wrong, in regard to your name. I was under the misguided impression that you were correcting me about "Head Honcho", and then in my apology to you I stepped into it again, by putting a "S" at the end of your name. A persons name is the most important personal thing a person has and it should be respected as such. Let me do it again one more time, Sir, MR ANDREW I apologize
and I will say this, to you sir, it will NEVER happen to you again by me.
In my own Defense ( a little lawyer lingo there ) I worked with an ANDREWS and had to write his name about every day and I fell into my old writing mode.
As William James said one time
" The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook"
Please be wise in this case and I would be most appreciative.

Also to all that sent in a post on this error of mine, I THANK you. I just may survive all this and get to stay and learn from all you experts.

Now on to the subject of this forum I have two, yes two more daggers/knives on the way and will take pictures and start a new post on them for you good folks for identification and comments. Just as soon as "What can Brown do for you" gets here.

Mr. Radu I will post a picture soon.
EGB
Mare Rosu


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kohnitz
Senior Member
posted 07-19-2004 12:07     Click Here to See the Profile for kohnitz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
VANDOO
Senior Member posted 07-19-2004 00:12               
"WE ARE A PRETTY TOLERANT BUNCH HERE ON THE FORUM AND STRIVE TO AVOID CONFLICT AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS ALL OF WHICH ARE COMMON AMONG HUMANS."

Conflict? Humans? No way! Now back to swords, knives and other conflict settling Weapons of Slash Destruction....

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