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Dagger for ID (Islamic?) - photos

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Author	Topic: Dagger for ID (Islamic?) - photos
beoram Member	posted 01-07-2003 18:52 another item from my one collector friend. looks Islamic to me, and I feel I should know what it is, but I'm not sure. ID, comments, etc.? IP: Logged
Walosi Member	posted 01-07-2003 19:49 A beautiful knife, very well made. The Jambiya (Kanjhar to the Iranians) covers a wide swath of real estate. The handle shape, wide tang and fullers suggests an Indian origin to me, as does the tooled scabbard with chape. More than anything else, the goldwork patterns have an Indian flavor. Just a guess, from drooling for hours over those on Artzis' site, so it is a semi-educated guess at best. [This message has been edited by Walosi (edited 01-07-2003).] IP: Logged
Battara Senior Member	posted 01-07-2003 20:13 What you have is called "tiger's teeth" and is indeed from india. You have a truly nice piece - love the wootz blade. Your gold koftgari seems to be well intact. Congradulations on your acquisition. IP: Logged
MRichard Member	posted 01-07-2003 23:38 Does anybody have any idea what the handle material is? I have seen this material used on arabian jambiyas and other indian pieces. Notice the peculiar cracking. Is this some type of synthetic like celluloid? IP: Logged
VANDOO Senior Member	posted 01-08-2003 00:16 I also noticed the handle, as you mention the crack patern is not found in ivory. The only natural substance I can think of would be amber which does come in that color, so it may be amber melted and recast for scales or something purely manmade. It is a very attractive dagger at any rate and the wootz or damascus blade is very nice. IP: Logged
Oriental-Arms Senior Member	posted 01-08-2003 08:25 Tiger teeth Jambiya indeed. Common in North India and characterized by the full tang and three lobes pommel. It comes in a big variety of qualities and this one looks a piece from the top. Few other examples of good quality, all with wootz blades are shown below: . With regard to the handle, two possible natural materials will be of this color or close to it: Amber and Giraffe horn. I will gamble on the Amber (although it is not so common in India) IP: Logged
beoram Member	posted 01-09-2003 21:17 thanks all - jambiya, that was what I couldn't remember. Are they of Islamic origin ultimately though? Makes sense, if they're found in northern India, and the goldwork (koftgari?) makes me think so too... in any case, sadly it is not mine, but a friend's. He also asks me to say that he thinks (or was told?) that the handle is indeed very old ivory. I suppose it could be, considering the colouration? I agree the 'cracks' are strange though. Someone also told him that it is 16th-c. - anyone have a guess on the age? thanks again all, Ben IP: Logged
VANDOO Senior Member	posted 01-10-2003 00:28 Is there any significence in the tri lobed pommels, the old philippine talbions also have a tri lobed pommel. I was just wondering if the # 3 was associated with power or protection, ect. in ancient times. IP: Logged
Ian Senior Member	posted 01-16-2003 16:22 Beoram: The golden appearance and fine lines of this hilt seem typical of sea cow (dugong) ivory which is amongst the rarest forms of ivory. The fine lines are the remnants of blood vessels. Usually confined to very high quality pieces, the presence of such an uncommon material would certainly fit with the overall quality of this particular jambiya. The hilt does not look particularly old to me, perhaps late 19th C, but could be older depending on how much use and handling the piece may have had. Lovely knife. Ian. [This message has been edited by Ian (edited 01-17-2003).] IP: Logged
beoram Member	posted 01-19-2003 09:11 Thanks Ian - I don't think I've ever seen or even heard of sea-cow ivory before. How interesting. thanks again all for the insightful info & discussion. I'll pass it along to the owner. --B. IP: Logged
Andrew EEWRS Staff	posted 01-19-2003 10:18 Ian: In Florida, sea cows are named "manatee". Is this the same animal you refer to? Andrew IP: Logged
Ian Senior Member	posted 01-19-2003 11:34 Andrew: Yes. The same slow moving large marine mammal that frequently gets hit by boats. There is a worldwide decline in the population of these extraordinary creatures and they are threatened in all parts of the world. I have a recently acquired example of dugong ivory on the hilt of a Tausug kris. Ian. [This message has been edited by Lee Jones (edited 01-20-2003).] IP: Logged
Ian Senior Member	posted 01-20-2003 21:14 Additional pictures of dugong ivory are now up. Ian. IP: Logged
tom hyle Senior Member	posted 01-21-2003 14:21 There is a probably extinct arctic sea cow (Stellar's sea cow) which was much larger than a manatee. Perhaps ivory from this creature moved along the same trade routes as walrus ivory. IP: Logged
MRichard Member	posted 01-21-2003 18:43 Unusual how it shows the same cross hatch pattern as elephant ivory. The hilt on the dagger in question seems to have no apparent grain what so ever. The color of the dugong ivory looks alot like henna stain. IP: Logged

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