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Igorots and Taiwanese Relation?

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Author	Topic: Igorots and Taiwanese Relation?
justin Senior Member	posted 12-17-2002 09:54 Ive noticed that the blades,hafts and sheaths of both Igorot and Taiwanese weaponsshare multiple traits,the rattan bindings,open scabbards,socketed handles,the straps for hanging the scabbards,is there any relation between these two peoples? IP: Logged
zelbone Senior Member	posted 12-17-2002 10:30 That's a very astute observation, Justin! I've never really pondered this question before, but now that I think about it, the weapons of both the Igorots and the native Taiwanese do share similarities. I do not know of any relationship between these two people, but I'm sure there is some sort of relationship whether it is by trade, migration, or by blood. The similarities in their weapons is too coincidental. Maybe someone with more knowledge about Asian migration and cultural history could better answer this question. IP: Logged
justin Senior Member	posted 12-17-2002 11:28 After consulting my trusty globe,i found that Luzon{this is the island with the Igorot,correct?} isnt too far from Taiwan,couldnt find a scale on my globe but it appears that Taiwan is about 100 miles {give or take,just a guess}North of Luzon,with a small chain of islands in between ending in one right off the coast of Taiwan called Batan island. IP: Logged
Cy Member	posted 12-17-2002 21:10 FYI Taiwan formerly Formosa Island the indigenous inhabinates were made up of several Austronesian tribes commonly called the Paiwan.Of these tribes 9 are currently recognized.It is speculated by a number of Anthropologists that the Paiwan were the fore-fathers/ancestors of all of the races of austronesian people IE: the Hill tribes of Northern Luzon, the Dayaks of Borneo and other peoples across Indonesian Archipeligo. The weapons are not just a factor but similarities in customs, you see the Paiwan and other tribes of Taiwan/Formosa were Headhunters.Some even used the Tattoo in a similar manner as the Kalinga and Bontoc of Luzon as well as the Dayaks of Borneo. I can go on and state various other similarities ect but I do not want to be acussed of going off on a subject. The tribes of Taiwan: Atayal, Paiwan,saisiat,ami,Rukai,Tsou,Yami- of orchid island ,Puyuma, Bunun. IP: Logged
john Senior Member	posted 12-17-2002 21:51 Interesting information Cy especially it is known that some of the natives of Taiwan have similar "lingo" as the Malays... I was watching the documentary "Journey of Man" by a Spencer Wells (can't remember the exact spelling) yesterday whose many years of research alleges that under the skin, all humans decended from an African Man...very interesting, taking into account all those scientific tests/proofs eg DNA...may be science will eventually proof and reduce many of the fantastic stories (eg creation of man etc) in all the major scriptures to just "good stories or story books"... [This message has been edited by john (edited 12-17-2002).] IP: Logged
leaf Senior Member	posted 12-17-2002 23:31 There is a lot of different theories about the different enthnic makeup of the Philippine people. Obviously the 7000+ islands of the PI and 10's of thousands of islands in Indonesia and Malaysia have allowed the mixing of many enthnic groups as well as religion. I have read that the "mountain tribes" are directly linked to Taiwan, and being away from the coastal areas they may have held onto a more undulated version of old customs. The Spanish, who wanted to convert and suppress tribal customs, left the "Central" tribes alone, for better or worse the US didn't. An interesting book is "Head Hunters" by David Howard who in 1994 interviews several elders from several tribes. IP: Logged
Conogre Senior Member	posted 12-18-2002 03:46 While many ethnic groups, particularly on a tribal level, are known as headhunters, the custom goes back nearly as far as recorded history itself. Mere coincedence that the heads of revolutionaries and religious visionaries were often displayed on pikes or spears outside the camps, villages and castles of the victors? Once the eyes (the windows of the soul) were dimmed and the lips (which often uttered statements that moved thousands to follow their preaching or diatribe) were silenced, the head then became a symbol of dethroned power, a visual confirmation that none were so mighty as to be invulnerable. It's been noted that many lands seem to have an original or very early australonegroid population that has been pushed to the boundries and superceded by an indo-asian population that were later replaced by the now ruling mixture, to the point that this seems far more than mere coincedence. As to stories of creation, be it on a tribal level or that "accepted" by major existing religions, here too are found similarities that seem to be almost universal in the human species, a basic recognition of the fact that we seem to be above or at least significantly different from the rest of nature's creations. Is the whole head really all that different from ears, hands, scalps or any other form of trophy signifying a hunters prowess? Human migrational paths seem inarguable to all but the strictest fundamentalists, and if such is true, is it so strange that weapons and implements often show an uncanny resemblance? To me, what seems strange is that the obvious eveidence is so often clear, yet specialists in any given field often seem hell bent on disguisig or hiding the fact based upon whichever treatise or publication they are attempting to make a claim to fame with, and true history is always the loser. IP: Logged
Roro Senior Member	posted 12-18-2002 09:08 I think the whole head is a little different than other bodily trophies for a couple reasons. On the physics side, its a lot harder to chop a head off than a scalp, making the weapons heavier. Compare a mandau to an native american knife or tomohawk. On the cultural side, many asian civilizations felt the head held the soul, making it a symbol of owning the spirit and possibly power of the dead (I gotta admit that its better than obtaining the power by consumption, eek! ick). More obviously and as mentioned, it was possible to recongnize the dead by their heads, but not their scalps or ears. I think that ears inparticular were only used as an, excuse the pun, head counting measure. I think that most of all that most of the power of intellgence (and consequently peace ) comes from communication, and most if not all of our communication comes from the head. Its irionic that the place where peace can come from is the valued in war only when destroyed. IP: Logged
Roro Senior Member	posted 12-18-2002 09:11 and all that at 9:00 am. IP: Logged
justin Senior Member	posted 12-18-2002 09:46 Thank you all for your helpful,and interesting comments. IP: Logged

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