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Author Topic:   Interesting reproductions
Ian
Senior Member
posted 11-27-2001 20:11     Click Here to See the Profile for Ian   Click Here to Email Ian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are some interesting reproductions coming out of Indonesia (I think) and appearing on eBay from time to time. Some of them look well made, and the carving on the hilts is generally good. They may be from Lombok.

The following URL will take you to the first of several pages showing these swords and knives -- just keep clicking NEXT to view the various pages. Mostly they are homogenous steel blades, but some are obviously folded patterns. The prices are in Australian dollars, A$1.00 is worth about US$0.50.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/suwandi/java1.htm

Ian.

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Conogre
Senior Member
posted 11-28-2001 00:02     Click Here to See the Profile for Conogre   Click Here to Email Conogre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep...this is the company that I saw with pieces offered on Ebay several months ago.
I'm not sure I'd call them reproductions though, but perhaps contemporary...like it or not, modernization is creeping in everywhere.
This same company was also offering rehilted antique blades, mounted as shown on the pieces in this catalogue.
As to the carving, and especially on the damascus blades, I can't fault the value.

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Michael M
Member
posted 11-28-2001 00:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael M   Click Here to Email Michael M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
do any of you know the url to their home page ?

I cant seem to get out of the pages that shopw their pieces.

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Ian
Senior Member
posted 11-28-2001 07:17     Click Here to See the Profile for Ian   Click Here to Email Ian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michael:

Here's the home page URL: http://www.users.bigpond.com/suwandi/valiant.htm

I note that the company is in Perth, Australia but they say that the weapons are made in the traditional way at eight different locations in Indonesia, then finished in Australia. Interesting. They also have some old blades for sale at reasonable prices.

Ian.

[This message has been edited by Ian (edited 11-28-2001).]

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Conogre
Senior Member
posted 11-28-2001 08:57     Click Here to See the Profile for Conogre   Click Here to Email Conogre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Surprise, surprise...I have one of their antique pieces (acquired from another source), Identical to the Pedang Sabet, #3104, and I have to say it's a very nicely made piece, and if one ascribes to the supposition that old blades were traditionally rehilted and rescabarded as time marches on, then you really do have an excellent mix of the old and the new.

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tom hyle
Senior Member
posted 11-28-2001 12:21     Click Here to See the Profile for tom hyle   Click Here to Email tom hyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very cool. I would not be inclined to call them reproductions, because as far as I know production has never really ceased; thus I would think they are new swords in a continuous tradition. A fine distinction, though.

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Kalis
Member
posted 11-28-2001 12:39     Click Here to See the Profile for Kalis   Click Here to Email Kalis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello everyone,

I've dealt with this guy before on ebay.I won one of his kerambits.It was very well made.The seller is a nice guy and excellent to deal with.He's got a lot of interesting pieces.

Kalis

[This message has been edited by Kalis (edited 11-28-2001).]

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Mick
Senior Member
posted 11-28-2001 14:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Mick   Click Here to Email Mick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For what is worth, I endorse Wandi 100%. He was the source of the gold handled Rencong that was pictured on this forum in the past (from Ebay as a matter of fact). It wasn't cheap, but it was not priced way up there as some of the material is on US and European dealers pages.

He is providing modern material (with no unjustified claims) at modest prices and helping to keep the art of pamor fabrication alive in Indonesia. I think this is a commendable effort and continue to wish him good luck with his new business.

I would prefer that he continue to provide traditional carving on his sheaths and grips, but he seems to go for more elaborate schemes. This is his choice and I concede that it makes for a fancier looking final product.

[This message has been edited by Mick (edited 11-28-2001).]

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VANDOO
Senior Member
posted 11-28-2001 16:18     Click Here to See the Profile for VANDOO   Click Here to Email VANDOO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I TOO HAVE BOUGHT FROM THEM QUITE A WHILE AGO AND WAS PLEASED WITH MY PURCHASES. I BOUGHT A PHILIPPINE PINUTI WHICH IS A GOOD FIGHTING KNIFE IF SOMEONE WANTED TO DO SOME CUTTING AND SLASHING WITHOUT RISKING A ANTIQUE SWORD I WOULD RECOMMEND IT. THE OTHER ONE WAS ONE OF THE FLASHY ONES WITH A EXTREMELY WICKED CURVED BLADE WITH TIGERS CARVED ON THE HANDLE AND SCABBARD (I LIKE TIGERS AND DRAGONS LIKE CONOGRE )IT IS MUCH TOO LARGE TO USE LIKE THE ORIGINAL TIGER CLAW TYPE KNIVES. IT IS MORE OF A FANTASY KNIFE BUT IT LOOKS NEAT. I BOUGHT MINE 12/23/99 AND THEY ARE STILL SELLING THEM. THE INDONESIAN TIGER CLAW KNIVES ARE SMALL DISEMBOWELING AND THROAT CUTTING KNIVES MINE COULD DISEMBOWEL A BULL ELEPHANT IF I WERE CRAZY ENOUGH TO TRY IT. NO WAY! I LIKE ELEPHANTS AND I LIKE MY HIDE TOO MUCH TO TRY IT.

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Michael M
Member
posted 11-29-2001 00:46     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael M   Click Here to Email Michael M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thank you Ian and thank you to the others who have shared their opinions.

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valiant
Member
posted 11-29-2001 09:42     Click Here to See the Profile for valiant   Click Here to Email valiant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
G'day folks,

Thanks so much for talking about us (and me). May I introduced myself? Suwandi W.Dharma is my name, proprietor of Valiant Trading Co. If you have any inquiries regarding our blades (new or antique), please feel free to ask! I try my best to be as honest as I can. Money isn't everything, so I'd not intend to sell anything to anyone who are not happy with the goods or service; I'll simply put it/them back into my collection. Now we carry stock of approx. 1200 new blades (NO bull!) and talking about antique blades, you'll soon see some more... a lot more!

I apologize for my 'too basic' English, need time to develop though. Any feedback would be appreciated. Many thanks to my mates who bought bits & pieces in the past and who posted really nice comments on me!!! Eagerly awaiting for your response.

Wandi.

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tom hyle
Senior Member
posted 11-29-2001 12:22     Click Here to See the Profile for tom hyle   Click Here to Email tom hyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice looking product you've got. I wonder if you'd tell us a bit about it. What is the tempering like on your new swords? Can you give us approximate figures on the rockwell scale? Or a general desciption such as "Spring-tempered", "differentially hardened", etc.? What's your damascus like? Is it nickel pamor? lineal laminate? What's the steel? Are they one-bar blades, or san-mai type? Just a few wonderings that might interest people. I'm a dangerous one to invite questions from; they come a-rolling. Again; very nice looking product; very enjoyable just to look at your website. It's a real pleasure to see traditional stuff being marketted. I'd never heard of you. I'd love to see your stuff on the N. American market.

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tom hyle
Senior Member
posted 11-30-2001 00:26     Click Here to See the Profile for tom hyle   Click Here to Email tom hyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There were some places on your site that were taking so long to come up that I gave up (don't get alarmed; my ((brother's)) computer is not...entirely well.), so I may by no means know all that you offer, but I would like to mention to you that if you plan to hit the US market, some Moro stuff would serve you well without a doubt. A long barong (16"+ blade) and particularly a kris sundang would sell well. I do caution you to not tool up so sell a non-serated kris to Americans though; they won't be interested in any significant numbers, but a serated (wavy) kris sundang would probably sell very well, especially with some assurances of 1) hand-forgedness 2) either known industrial alloy or damascus and 3) either spring temper or differential hardening. Also, American consumers are particularly enamored of full-length tangs. I know it isn't basically proper, but it's a factor to consider vis-a-vis the N. American market. Punali (gunong) do not do as well on the US market, but they do better wavy, too. Kampilan are fairly rare here in the original, though I don't know if that would help your trade or hurt it. Mandaus are "hot" over here. I don't know if I'm the only one who would be interested in scarf-welded chisel-ground blades or not. A central bevel might serve you better on teh US market. If you could get some thicknesses up around 1/2" (at the blade base, of course), or forged bolsters, I know I personally would be even more excited (but I'm poor; even though your prices seem quite reasonable.). We're not really supposed to be commercial on this site; I hope my commentary falls under cross cultural exchange . I'd love to think that you and the bladesmiths make good with this stuff, and I'd love to see it "over here."

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Michael M
Member
posted 11-30-2001 00:33     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael M   Click Here to Email Michael M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
woooohooooo !!!!!!


nice post Tom!!!!!!

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valiant
Member
posted 12-01-2001 00:13     Click Here to See the Profile for valiant   Click Here to Email valiant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tom hyle:
Nice looking product you've got. I wonder if you'd tell us a bit about it. What is the tempering like on your new swords? Can you give us approximate figures on the rockwell scale? Or a general desciption such as "Spring-tempered", "differentially hardened", etc.? What's your damascus like? Is it nickel pamor? lineal laminate? What's the steel? Are they one-bar blades, or san-mai type? Just a few wonderings that might interest people. I'm a dangerous one to invite questions from; they come a-rolling. Again; very nice looking product; very enjoyable just to look at your website. It's a real pleasure to see traditional stuff being marketted. I'd never heard of you. I'd love to see your stuff on the N. American market.

What such a questionaire Tom! Sorry for my late response, got hit by the virus pretty badly. I'll answer 1 by 1:
- Range from approx. 50-56 HRC depends on the style and "original" function of the blade (eg: parang is designed for bush clearing, not for splitting firewood) => never been tested though, based on many end-users report. Parang (longer style blade)usually is not as hard as golok (shorter and thicker blade).
- DIfferential hardening for sure!
- Our Damascus blades range from a very basic one (hard & soft steel sandwich, san-mai type), moderate and fine (same as above with more & more folds).
- We use pure and nickel-plated steel (eg: ex bicycle's spoke)in some fine quality Damascus as well as copper (yes, copper!).
I'll post some images later on to give you a better idea.

Thanks so much for your praise and support!

Nice to have met you!
Wandi.

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valiant
Member
posted 12-01-2001 00:31     Click Here to See the Profile for valiant   Click Here to Email valiant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now, regarding your "List of Request" :-)
Well, as long as our capital allowed, we'd be happy to fulfill your needs. We have already had such an enormous stock (based on our scale) and should slow down for quite some time.

We carry a couple of samples of Damascus Parang Nabur and Langgi Tinggang (mandau style blade) in stock, but haven't been put into catalog. Hope these kind of blades are of your interest.

Thanks for your suggestion and idea on 'saleable' blades, we'd definetely consider it in the future.

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Lee Jones
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-04-2001 18:11     Click Here to See the Profile for Lee Jones   Click Here to Email Lee Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received for posting from Mick:

quote:
I alluded to a gold handled Rencong that I got from Valiant Co. under another topic recently. This piece has been shown before on the Forum under a thread initiated by DAHenkel. For the benefit of those of you who missed it: the grip is formed of sheet gold wrapped around a core and probably silver soldered. (The thickness of the gold can be seen by the piece extending directly above the back of the blade.) The gold is chased and the low spots carefully enameled. Then I believe the entire piece is fired to fix the enamel. Most of the enameling I have seen is either black or green just as it is on this piece.





Siwah's or Sewer's (a similar type weapon with the flat topped grip mentioned in the thread) are constructed similarly and (according to Barbara Leigh) are still being manufactured in Aceh today.

Until Wandi brought this piece up, I had only seen this type of material in the treasure room of the National Museum in Jakarta. I had no idea that I would actually see one anywhere else no less acquire one myself. In fact this was only the fourth Indonesian piece that I had ever acquired that was not a Keris.


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valiant
Member
posted 12-07-2001 19:05     Click Here to See the Profile for valiant   Click Here to Email valiant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear friend,

Please find images of our range of Damascus blades.

[This message has been edited by valiant (edited 12-07-2001).]

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VANDOO
Senior Member
posted 12-07-2001 21:22     Click Here to See the Profile for VANDOO   Click Here to Email VANDOO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WHAT SORT OF WEAPON IS THE THIRD PICTURE WITH THE INTERESTING TIP AND HOW LARGE? IF YOU ARE MAKING LARGE BLADES WITH THAT BEAUTIFUL WORKMANSHIP YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM FINDING BUYERS AND NOT MUCH COMPETITION AS MOST MODERN DAMASCUS BLADES ARE NO BIGGER THAN HUNTING KNIVES.

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valiant
Member
posted 12-08-2001 05:59     Click Here to See the Profile for valiant   Click Here to Email valiant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Barry,

Images have been supersized, the 3rd is of a Sundanese Kujang (definetely not as big as your tigerclaw :-).
For its original size and look, please refer to: http://www.valiantco.com/java/kujangpamor.html
Thanks!

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