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Author Topic:   Please help me identify this sword.
Scott Bubar
Senior Member
posted 05-24-2000 19:56     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Mr. Kool (?)

Poking around for clues, I did a search on Kool, reasoning that it may be a variant of Cool, and found the following site:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~herbertr/genealog1.htm

If you scroll down to the last portrait, you will see a gentleman in uniform who, I believe, bears the name Kool. Since he is wearing a short curved sword, I couln't pass this by, and have taken the liberty of emailing Mr. Reesink, and inviting him to join the conversation.

Even if there is no family connection, should he be so gracious, I think he might be of help to us as a Dutch connection, and one who is obviously familiar with research.

Should he prefer to email me anything of interest, I will of course post it here.

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Mikey
Member
posted 05-25-2000 01:27     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everyone, I tried the red hot pin, and luckily it wasn't plastic. The handle is really smooth and yellow and brown in color. I dont see much grain myself. Can I try to polish it or something to tell the difference
between ivory and bone?Thanks

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Mikey
Member
posted 05-29-2000 23:53     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What happened to everyone??? We got on a second page and everyone stopped writing. Or is everyone still enjoying the long weekend?

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Oriental-Arms
Senior Member
posted 05-30-2000 08:36     Click Here to See the Profile for Oriental-Arms   Click Here to Email Oriental-Arms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Look on the surface through a very strong magnifying glass, with a very short focus (Like the ones used by diamond dealers). Bone will have very tiny holes in the surface (nerves channels). Ivory will be very smooth. Ivory will take better polish and will show graining. Ivory patina will be darker than that of bone.

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Jan
Member
posted 05-30-2000 18:13     Click Here to See the Profile for Jan   Click Here to Email Jan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Still no SHAVER , but maybe this is the COOL family we are looking for :

1. There is a book about the wars on Lombok in the 1890īs , written by a Dutch army officer W. COOL in 1897. The book was translated into English in 1934 .

2. And now I found this Dutch biography home page about WOUTER COOL jr. ( 1877 - 1947 ):
http://www.etcl.nl/mnl/levens/47-49/cool.htm

I am not Dutch and can hardly understand it , but what I get is :
Wouter Cool senior was a First Lieutenant in a "Genie" unit and became a full scale military engineer later in his career . He build the new barracks in a city called Breda and served as "Minister of War" for some time .
The life of Wouter Cool jr. is given on that page , the most important parts seem to be :
- He became an engineer and served his practical apprenticeship in the modernization of Rotterdam harbour .
- Later he was sent to Java several times to organize the modernization of Dutch colonial ports .
- After that , he served in quite a few technical / engineering / political positions , mostly connected to harbour or railway topics , in the Dutch East Indies .


Still , this does not explain the SHAVER . Could that be somehow connected to HAVEN ( = harbour ) ?

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Scott Bubar
Senior Member
posted 06-01-2000 18:44     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I noticed that a new member at NetSword, I.C. Koets, was based in Delft, I couldn't help but send him an email asking him to look at this thread and hopefully join the conversation, as we seem sorely in need of some Dutch input.

I received this reply:

quote:
I couldn't reply on the forum, so here goes:

- The sword looks familiar. Many [bad] copies of this style are for sale
here in Holland on fleamarkets.

- Don't get hung up on the VOC-emblem. In the days of the VOC, only the best
manufacturers were allowed to use the monogram on their products. After the
dissolution of the Company, the practice of using the monogram as proof of
quality went on for quite some time, especially in Indonesia [Dutch Indies].

- Shaver Cool does NOT sound Dutch. Was it engraved later? Can it have been
a company name during the English occupation?

- The look of the sword is decidedly Balinese. Or could be Sumatran. In the
days of European occupation, the Europeans used to carry swords. This was
seen as a sign of authority by the natives, who tried to copy this custom
with European style swords [in their eyes at least]

- The griphon head was almost never used. This amount of embellishment has
traditionally been frowned upon in the Netherlands. If anything, a lion's
head would have been used, but only in extremely embellished swords.

- The name 'Batavia' is not only a ship's name, but also the name of the
primary city of the Dutch Indies [now Djakarta]. It is very likely that the
name is an indication of the place of manufacture.

- The style of embellishment strikes me more as Indonesian than Dutch. In
Dutch art, lines are almost always thick, even and interlocking. This much
freeer style also looks Indonesian.

I'll look into it.
Hoping to have been of service:

I.C. Koets


Thanks again for your reply, I.C.

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 06-01-2000 20:39     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for adding that post Scott. I know that we all seek a factual answer to the origin of this piece; we may never know for certain about Shaver Cool although I certainly hope we will.
I've been following this thread and contributing what I could. I say this with no offense intended and I can only offer, at this point, an opinion. My opinion is , that for all we might wish this sword to be some kind of authentic piece, it is in fact a souvenir albeit a well crafted one. I can see no pieces or parts on this sword that would lead me to believe that it is an original, or a piece that is meant to be seriously used as anything but a wall hanger.
The guard is of extremely light construction, the downcurving quillon(?) on the guard appears to be a soldered on piece.
Has mike tested the blade for flexibility which might indicate a sword of reasonable quality? That might tell us something about the blade.
I would be very pleased if some one of you could disabuse me of this point of view; until one of you can I remain a skeptic.

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Scott Bubar
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posted 06-01-2000 21:29     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick--I share your sense that this sword is not an "original", and have since I first saw it on NetSword and thought it might be a twentieth century commemorative sword (which is still a possibility).

There are other questions that I, for one, would very much like to see answered, however.

Your post on the "Dayak" sword indicated to me that there was a very strong possibility that there was an original type to be found, rather than this particular sword having been invented out of the whole cloth.

The first, and for me (if not Mikey) most important question is:

What, exactly was the original type?

I.C. Koet's comments and the attribution of the sword to the Dayaks by the merchant in your earlier post (though probably false) raise the possibility that these swords were produced by the indigenous people, whether as a token of authority, for use, or as a tourist souvenir.

It would be interesting to know if this were in fact the case.

Certainly, if Mikey's sword were, let's say, a mid 19th century indigenous copy of an original Dutch type for their own use, symbolic or not, it might be of some interest and value. An "original copy" so to speak.

If it was created for the late 19th century tourist trade, it would be interesting to know why the tourists were interested in the type.

Even if the sword should prove to be a 20th century trinket created for the tourist trade, I think we have sufficient reason to think that it points to something.

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Mikey
Member
posted 06-02-2000 01:17     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everyone, thanks for your comments.
Scott, I do agree with your with your question. If this is a copy or a reproduction, then why hasn't anyone run across a original?
How can I check the blade for flexibility. Is this something I can do?
Thanks again

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Oliver
Senior Member
posted 06-02-2000 09:30     Click Here to See the Profile for Oliver   Click Here to Email Oliver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hola Everyone,

I've been following this thread here and there and at last, something that was nagging me in the back of my mind has risen to the surface.

It was when Dyak influence was mentioned. I don't know much about the Dyaks, but I have seen plenty of mandau examples and I don't see any relationship. But this isn't the point. It brought to mind that I had somewhere seen before something represented as from Borneo that I thought couldn't have been. It was on ebay. There was one of those people that resolutely tries to sell replicas and tourist stuff as genuine this and that, using the cobbled together fragments of other people's descriptive posts as "descriptions".

Some of you must certainly have seen this guy's stuff. He talked about the Polynesians etc. and used the same description for two or three entirely different blades.

One of them looked just like Mikey's.

I put it together in my mind with Borneo etc.. Though to be honest, given the quality of the seller's photos (blurred and full of compression artifacts) as well as my memory I couldn't say if it was exactly the same. I remember the griffin head and the basket hilt.

I looked on ebay and couldn't find any examples. This guy used to have some Japanese sword reproductions listed as from Borneo as well. Perhaps one of you might come across one of them again. He usually lists several at a time if I recall correctly.

Mikey's sword may be a more original, earlier peice, and I certainly don't want to cast aspersions upon it. I do want to say that my opinion is that regardless of its age (which I wouldn't set at more than 100 years or so at the utmost) it is decorative. The rings for suspension on the scabbard show that clearly. Much like on koumaya scabbards, the thin, weak mounting rings give the decorative piece away.

One last question, and forgive me if it has been addressed and I missed it: is the blade at all sharp and/or does it show evidence of ever having been sharp?

I must emphasize that I mean no offense and offer these remarks only in the of spirit friendly observation in hopes of arriving, finally, at some sort of provenance for the piece.

[This message has been edited by Oliver (edited 06-02-2000).]

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Scott Bubar
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posted 06-02-2000 18:14     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oliver, I think it's very likely that the source of the swords you saw is the same as that referenced by Rick above.

Not only is there the mention of the Polynesian's in the write-up on the sword he referenced, but the "Borneo Dayak" sword is offered in four different flavors.

These include a "jian" and "katana".

In the latter cases, the write-up includes the apparently "honest" statement: "It could well be new or just a couple of years old."

Actually, this proves to be a suggestive lead-in to the macabre added enticement: "It is similar to the weapons used by the East Timorese during the recent unrest there."

http://www.pacificcollection.com/index.php3?page=543

I think if you look at the sword Rick referenced, however you'll see that it is a much cruder version than Mikey's.

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Oliver
Senior Member
posted 06-02-2000 19:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Oliver   Click Here to Email Oliver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scott,

Thanks for the note! That is indeed the seller from ebay. I recognize the photo of his various swords of "Borneo". I have requested further photos. I sent them an e-mail about how my father has been looking to buy a dozen swords just like that for his local veteran's lodge, but before we buy we have to see better photos of the hilt so that we can see if there is room to engrave members' names. Hopefully they will take the bait and send a decent photo.

If you look closely at the photos there I don't think there is much difference between them and Mikey's sword. You will also note that at the bottom of the page it reads:

"NOTE:
Due to the very uniqueness of this item, the item purchased may differ marginally in appearance from the one pictured."

Exactly what type of tourist sword it is remains in question, but I don't believe the fact that it is modern and not a functional weapon can be questioned. Keep in mind that when locals produce tourist items they often model them on museum pieces or high quality prototypes that they see in antique catalogs. It is certainly possible that some prototype exists, but I feel reasonably certain that this is not one of the "originals" (I hesitate from saying "absolutely certain" only because I have not handled it).

In any case it is a nice decorative piece and I'm sure it will be an excellent source of conversation. It would also serve nicely as the first piece in a growing collection.

Mikey,

Have you thought about delving more seriously into collecting?

Best,

Oliver

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Lee Jones
EEWRS Staff
posted 06-02-2000 19:46     Click Here to See the Profile for Lee Jones   Click Here to Email Lee Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received from Rick for posting:

Possibly the picture may, in some way, help us with Mike's sword or it might be just groping in the dark. This is the hilt of a Batak Saber cast in solid brass; the eagle motif is somewhat unusual as most of these swords show a remote similarity to a Talwar form. This is a working sword with a well forged blade that will flex several degrees out of true. The working edge has been hardened and it shows signs of having seen combat. Paul stated, when I first presented it to the forum, that the hilt bore some similarity to current Indonesian Govt. issue arms. This and the Tjikeroeh Goloks say to me that the eagle motif is a well established hilt form in Indonesia.

My theory, and that's all it is, is that Mike's sword is a "concept" piece. Take the Eagle motif, doll it up with a comb and ear-like projections, add some V.O.C. motifs, create it in a "kit" form that can be assembled in a cottage industry setting; result, a very attractive sword to sell to foreign visitors that has implied historical significance. Shaver Cool may be nothing more than a corrupted combination of Dutch names or it may actually refer to a manufacturer that existed at some time in the history of the V.O.C. ; Batavia is ambiguous but could be taken as a reference to the famous ship of the same name; conversely, it could also be taken as the Dutch colonial name for Djakarta; either one implies a historical connection. This particular piece may be an early prototype of the many copies that we have seen mentioned in this thread. The newer examples may be cruder because they are later copies of an already successful design. I think that we who collect swords from this area are aware of great variances in the quality and execeution of seemingly similar pieces.
I must state again that I don't mean to disparage this particular sword in any way; rather if we are indeed trying to find the true origin of this sword we must take all possible explanations into account and I believe that this theory of its possible origin does indeed have some merit and should be considered.

I have also received a message from Mikey that he has recently tried to post to this thread but has been unsuccessful. - LJ

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 06-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 06-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 06-02-2000).]

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ruel
Senior Member
posted 06-02-2000 22:37     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"This and the Tjikeroeh Goloks say to me that the eagle motif is a well established hilt form in Indonesia."

I remember Rob Miller had one of those eagle-head pommels a few months ago. I also have a little Minang Badik with (what I think is) an eagle head.

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Oliver
Senior Member
posted 07-12-2000 18:24     Click Here to See the Profile for Oliver   Click Here to Email Oliver     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Y'all might want to take a look at this, but do it quick since the auction ends in a day or so:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=376705721

Best,

Oliver

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Mikey
Member
posted 07-12-2000 19:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks alot Oliver!

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 07-13-2000 11:52     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HOORAY!!! Congratulations Oliver! You've found the original piece that Mikey's sword is based upon. For all of its faults Ebay can be a really good research source ; sooner or later everything under the Sun passes through its listings.
Mikey, I'm very glad to see that there is a prototype for your sword and that it isn't just a fantasy piece.

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Mikey
Member
posted 07-13-2000 17:15     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wrote the people that had that sword for sale, and they are just trying to sell the sword because it was left as collateral for money. All they know about the sword is what the owner told them. The owner also told them that it was worth $1000.00. So who really knows what it is..right.

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 07-13-2000 17:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That may be true , we don't know for sure whether it is truly a V.O.C. sword ..... but it certainly appears to be a very old sword. I'm no expert on fakes but the sword seems to me at least, to be a genuine old piece; the guard is cast from brass and the handle material is wrapped with either twisted or braided wire; it seems to be an authentic weapon intended for combat use.

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Scott Bubar
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posted 07-13-2000 19:35     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My thanks also, Oliver. I have sort of a proprietary interest in Mikey's sword, as I referred him here, and I glad to see someone else has kept the sword in mind.

And I'm glad to see you've "stayed tuned," Mikey. Sometimes these things require patience.

BTW, I have a "feeler" out on the sword. It's a long story, which I won't bother you with at present. If it produces any results, you'll here about it here. If it doesn't after a reasonable time, you'll still here about it here, because I think this type is probably fairly well known to the Dutch, and we just have to connect with the right party.

A question for Mr. Jones: since the sword at EBay will disappear soon, would it be possible to copy the images and post them here, or would that be a no-no? If the latter, I'll be glad to attempt a verbal description, so there will be a marker for those coming to the thread later.

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Mikey
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posted 07-14-2000 00:35     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Scott, thanks to you too. You all have been a big help on educating me on this sword.
To Mark Bowditch..did you ever talk to your sister that lives in Amsterdam? Did she find out anything?

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Mark Bowditch
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posted 07-14-2000 16:03     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark Bowditch   Click Here to Email Mark Bowditch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did, but I don't think that she has had time to go to the VOC museum. I told her to sic her fiance on it (who is Dutch and loves puzzles), but I think it slipped her mind. I wonder why she doesn't find this as fascinating as we do?

Now that an original has been located, I am going to renew my request, on penalty of disownment. It wouldn't hurt her to visit a museum and get a little culture.

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Mikey
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posted 07-14-2000 16:53     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for replying Mark. Tell her we all would appreciate any info she could come up with. You all have a good weekend!

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blastr2
Member
posted 08-01-2000 00:33     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am a novice sword collector and recently bought a sword that was listed with ebay
that has a gryphom pommel. After buying the sword, I found this vikingsword discussion forum that identified my sword as the one that was the basis of another that belongs to Mikey.

Since this sword has been a topic of interest on the forum, I wanted to let you all know
that I would also like to help in any way that I can with the identification.

The sword appears essentially as described in the ebay advertisement
(http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=376705721). The blade is heavy and one side is engraved with a pattern of leaves and flowers. The other side is unmarked. The knuckle guard is heavy cast bronze and has a symbol of a crown above an anchor. The pommel is heavy cast brass but the backstrap is light weight embossed copper. The grip is a massive piece of bone and is wrapped with brass wire.

I don't see any sign of the letters "VOC" and there is no makers mark or inspectors
mark.

[This message has been edited by blastr2 (edited 08-01-2000).]

[This message has been edited by blastr2 (edited 08-01-2000).]

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Scott Bubar
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posted 08-01-2000 10:15     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, Blastr. Congratulations on your acuisition. Small world.

Some time ago, a came across the online resume of a Dutch academic who had contributed to The Arsenal of World. Dutch Arms Trade in the Seventeenth Century. (There are both Dutch and English editions--I've seen neither.)

I emailed him to see if he could help identify the sword, and was referred to "Jan Piet Puype of the Legermuseum / Army Museum at Delft, The Netherlands, who is an international expert on Dutch edged weapons, fire-arms and military technology."

Puype is the editor of the book, and I believe is the same Puype Jim referred to earlier in this thread.

Anyway, I sent an email some time ago, but received no response. If anyone else would like to give it a try, the contact info I was given is the same as at this Armamentarium site.

Better yet, if anyone knows anybody in the Delft area, a trip to the Armamentarium with some printouts could be revealing...

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blastr2
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posted 08-01-2000 21:43     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scott,

I tried to send an e-mail today to the LEGERMUSEUM ARMAMENTARIUM site but could not get delivery. I was, however, able to get a Fax through and will see if they can tell us anything about the sword. If I don't get a response in the next few days, I'll try air mail.

Thanks for your help.

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GLBoreel
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posted 08-03-2000 16:51     Click Here to See the Profile for GLBoreel   Click Here to Email GLBoreel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello, I am new here. I am the one asking around for a dutch bladesmith. In his reaction to my question, Scott Bubar requested help with identifying relevant sword.The only justification for it must be that I am dutch, for in the world of swords I still am an amateur. I am seriously searching for anything that can help your search. But so far there is not so much to report.
What might be important is the information on the page pointed at by Jan

athttp://www.etcl.nl/mnl/levens/47-49/cool.htm

As I am dutch I was able to fully understand it. Most of Jan's translations were right. But the role Wouter Cool played in the Indies should not be underestimated. He spent more then fifteen years there and was related to a remarkable amount of organisations.Yes he was to reorganise the dutch harbours, but he has also been the managing director of the dutch railways in the dutch indies. Furthermore he was involved in an almost innumerable amount of widely divergent organisations. From banks, commisions, schools, hospitals,theaters to even the freemasonry.
Well in my opinion, this credits the opinion of it being a commemorative sword. But for the Shaver part I have not found anything yet. But it may well be completely unrelated to Cool and the VOC as the latter two also are.

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Scott Bubar
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posted 08-03-2000 20:12     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for responding to my plea.

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blastr2
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posted 08-03-2000 21:57     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GLBoreel,

Thanks for your willingness to help. I just wanted to make sure that you knew that we now have two swords to identify.

The first one, owned by Mikey is marked "Shaver Cool V.O.C." and "Batavia."

The second sword, that I recently purchased, is a very similar style (with gryphon pommel)to Mikeys but could be much older and is not marked with any names, initials, or abreviations. The only insignia that I see on mine is a symbol of a crown above a fouled anchor, possibly with an upright "horn of plenty" in front of the anchor.

I sent a letter and photos of my sword to Mr. Puype of the Legermuseum Armamentarium today and will let the forum know as soon as he responds.

Ken

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Mikey
Member
posted 08-03-2000 23:57     Click Here to See the Profile for Mikey   Click Here to Email Mikey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everyone, thanks again for your help. Congradulations Blaster on your purchase. I hope we can find an answer to these swords one of these days.

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 08-04-2000 14:34     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This probably doesen't even need to be mentioned but most any sword that incorporates a fouled anchor usually denotes a Naval origin. It sure is starting to look like it was a Dutch Naval sword that inspired Mikey's piece.

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blastr2
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posted 08-07-2000 00:49     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mikey,

I have one one piece of information that could relate to your sword. "Batavia" was also the name of Holland, the "Batavian Republic," from 1795-1806. In 1806, Napolean transformed the Batavian Republic into the Kingdom of Holland.

Thus, I think your sword could relate in some way to the ship called the Batavia, the Port city in Java by that name, or to Holland itself, during that time period.

My information source was: http://www.batnet.com/starbase/Where3.html

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Lee Jones
EEWRS Staff
posted 08-12-2000 17:07     Click Here to See the Profile for Lee Jones   Click Here to Email Lee Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received from blastr2:

These images show some of the details of my gryphon pommel sword. Since the ebay images are no longer available, I hope that these will be useful to anyone that is interested.

1
2
3
4

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blastr2
Member
posted 08-23-2000 21:04     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mikey and all,

There is another "Dutch" sword now listed on eBay that looks a lot like Mikey's (Item #415798041). Its blade is also marked VOC, as shown at: http://202.37.101.140/ Another image of the blade (http://202.37.101.140/showpic.asp?filename=sword_detail.jpg) shows the engraving "Batavia." It looks to me like the blade may also be marked with the date 1751, beneath the VOC mark. If so, then this could be a commemorative date and is consistent with the date that the previous owner claimed for my sword. The seller of the current sword on eBay said that his sword was a "Dutch Indonesian" sword that was manufactured during the time of the Dutch occupation. I will e-mail the seller on eBay to see if he has any further information.

So far, I have not had any response from the Legermuseum Armamentarium.

[This message has been edited by blastr2 (edited 08-23-2000).]

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blastr2
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posted 08-24-2000 01:36     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just heard back fro the fellow that has his Dutch sword listed with eBAy. He said that the engraved number on the blade of his sword looks more like 141 than 1751.

Ken

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blastr2
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posted 08-28-2000 21:46     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Paulus Swaen runs an auction that specializes in Dutch VOC items. He took a look at the pictures of my sword above and said that he thinks that it was manufactured in the Dutch East Indies. He did not provide any further details. Still no word from the Legermuseum Armamentarium.

Ken

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blastr2
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posted 09-07-2000 21:13     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got a letter yesterday from Mr. Puype of the Legermuseum Armamentarium. He examined photos of my sword and stated that it was made in Indonesia with a cast guard that is the same style as that of a model 1880 Dutch naval sword. He pointed out, however, that the guard on my sword appears crudely done and is unlikely to be authentic. He concluded that my sword has nothing to do with the Dutch East India Company.

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Scott Bubar
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posted 09-10-2000 12:46     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Bubar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the update, Ken.

Did Mr. Puype have anything to say about the "Gryphon"-head pommel/backstrap?

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blastr2
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posted 09-11-2000 00:26     Click Here to See the Profile for blastr2   Click Here to Email blastr2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scott,

Mr. Puype said that the pommel on my sword was an eagle head, not a gryphon head. He did not comment on the fact that this eagle has teeth!

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ruel
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posted 09-11-2000 21:12     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking of mysterious griffins, what is this?

As the picture below shows, the griffin hilt is definitely Western in style, yet the blade is rather unusual for something European.

I can't help but again noting its similarity to those elusive Thai keris:

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