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Author Topic:   Lee: How about a Reading List for the Site?
ruel
Senior Member
posted 12-20-1999 21:49     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was thinking about how many of us say things like "Stone's Glossary," "Frey's Kris," etc., assuming that everybody knows what these books are.

But it may be unfair to those readers who don't know what these books are. Maybe we could add a bibliography to the homepage, divided geographically, so that people seeking information in print could be directed to the appropriate sources?

I could get the list going with the few books in my possession, and we could add on from there...

Just a thought!
ruel

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Lee Jones
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-21-1999 05:57     Click Here to See the Profile for Lee Jones   Click Here to Email Lee Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ruel, I believe that you are right that the time has come for a listing of references on this site. I had done that on the medieval sword site bibliography but have pretty much listed references with each essay here in order to avoid using frames.

Please take a look at the format I have used above, following the link. If we do this, I think it would be nice to also include a sentence or two assessing the relative values as well as known dangerous errors in a work.

What I would propose is that anyone wishing to include a work in the list post it in this thread and I'll eventually try to put it all in order on a page. Efforts to follow the format below will be greatly appreciated as they will make the compilation much easier for lazy me:

For a book:
Stone, George Cameron, A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times (New York: Jack Brussel, 1961). A reprint of a work initially published in 1934. This venerable work is known to virtually anyone who has dabbled in the subject of ethnographic weapons for more than a few months. As the book is arranged as an alphabetic listing, often by local terms, it can be an ordeal working backwards from what are, by today's standards, relatively poor black and white illustrations. And while this book is essential for much information that is unlikely to be found elsewhere, one only needs to look up the description for takouba for an example of just how wrong and misleading this book can be. You still must have a copy, but read it with caution. - Lee Jones

For an article:
Briggs, Lloyd Cabot, "European Blades in Tuareg Swords and Daggers," The Journal of the Arms & Armour Society [U.K.] Vol. V. No. 2. (1965), p. 37 - 92. While focused on the subject of its title, that is European blades found in Saharan mountings, this excellent monograph also deals more broadly on the subject of the takouba, its known history and place in Tuareg society. Arm-daggers are also discussed. Several line drawings are included. - Lee Jones

[This message has been edited by Lee Jones (edited 12-21-1999).]

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Oriental-Arms
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posted 12-21-1999 08:44     Click Here to See the Profile for Oriental-Arms   Click Here to Email Oriental-Arms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great idea. I will contribute my modest share. I think that whenever possible an ISBN number should be added. I also believe that D2 has an incredibly impressive list of literature. I trust he will contribute greatly

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Rich
Senior Member
posted 12-21-1999 12:41     Click Here to See the Profile for Rich     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lee -

I know this isn't primarily a Japanese
sword site, but users who are seeking
references can check my books page on
my website at: http://www.gemlink.com/~rstein/books.htm

I have an extensive list of English
language books on Japanese swords.

------------------
Rich Stein
rstein@ns.gemlink.com
The Japanese Sword Index
http://www.gemlink.com/~rstein/nihonto.htm

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-21-1999 15:58     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tammens E KRIS: three volumes soft cover; mostly available through museums and booksellers in the Netherlands. This work is very comprehensive; possibly the best work on keris that is available for purchase today. Original text in Dutch with english translation on facing page. Can be found through Bibliofind.com or the link shown below.
My only caveat is that I feel that the English translation loses some of the detail and richness in description from the original Dutch.

Cato Robert: MORO SWORDS: publ. Graham Brash Singapore. The best resource currently available on these weapons. For sale through the same European sources as DE KRIS. Can be found through Bibliofind or the link below.
www.ethnographicartbooks.com


Hurley Vic: SWISH OF THE KRIS: publisher Dutton; currently out of print and likely to stay so. This is an in depth study and history of the Moro peoples describing their society,battle tactics and weapons.
This is a great book that covers an obscure society. Fascinating reading. Hard to find and pricey $65.-$100.+ U.S.
Again , try Bibliofind.

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Rick

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-21-1999 16:04     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have no idea how that smiley face got into the text; should read DE KRIS .

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Rick

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Rich
Senior Member
posted 12-21-1999 17:40     Click Here to See the Profile for Rich     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Swish of the Kris is now available
online at:
http://www.bakbakan.com/swishkb.html

------------------
Rich Stein
rstein@ns.gemlink.com
The Japanese Sword Index
http://www.gemlink.com/~rstein/nihonto.htm

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-21-1999 20:20     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Rich, I don't think they have the complete work up yet at the link you gave for SWISH OF THE KRIS ; but they are making progress since the last time I visited the site . Being the impatient type I had to find my own copy :-).

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Rick

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ruel
Senior Member
posted 12-22-1999 01:22     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are three books on Chinese weapons. (My browser doesn't let me do italics, so the titles appear as regular font.)

Werner, ETC. Chinese Weapons. (Bangkok: White Orchid Press, 1986). Originally printed in Shanghai, 1932. This volume was an early attempt to list and classify Chinese weapons. To do this, it has gathered information from a number of written sources, and includes reproductions of illustrations from historical manuals. While much information is undoubtedly provided, the author has chosen to rely solely on manuscript information; consequently we are deprived of information from actual specimens. No bibliography is provided, but in-text references are made to primary sources in Chinese. (ISBN 974-87426-7-9)

Yang Hong. Weapons of Ancient China. (New York: Science Press, 1992). Translated from an original Chinese edition. (NOTE: The original Chinese name-order has been preserved in the English edition: Yang is the surname.) This book is a summary of finds from various archaeological excavations across China. While the information and illustrations (photographs and drawings) are excellent, the book's discussion of edged weapons strangely stops after the Song Dynasty (AD 13thc.). Thus, the weapons modern collectors are most likely to encounter, and martial artists most likely to use, are not included. Another curious -- often amusing -- feature of this book is the didactic Socialism that guides it (common in academic literature from mainland China). This does not, however, affect the quality of the hoplological information. (ISBN 1-880132-03-6)

Yang, Jwing-Ming. Ancient Chinese Weapons: A Martial Artist's Guide. (Boston, MA: YMAA Publication Center, 1999). As the name implies, this book is an attempt to introduce Chinese martial artists (Yang operates a T'ai Chi center) to traditional Chinese weaponry. Its information is based largely on historical texts, which are well-referenced by endnotes. A fascinating array of exotic weapons is described and illustrated, which alone would justify the acquisition of the book. The author, however, seems to be uncritical of the primary sources' descriptions of the weapons; eg., he records without comment on p. 27 that a famous polearm weighed 90 lbs. Like Werner (1986), Yang makes little use of specimens, though some mention is made of excavated Han dynasty swords in Chapter 1. (ISBN 1-886969-67-1)

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Oriental-Arms
Senior Member
posted 12-22-1999 08:37     Click Here to See the Profile for Oriental-Arms   Click Here to Email Oriental-Arms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I’ll add my contribution:
Krieger, Herbert W. The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armor of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum , Smithsonian Institution, United States National Museum, Bulletin 137. Washington, Government printing office, 1926. A very thorough work including Black and White photographs and description of the items collected in the turn of the century. Quite rare but worth the effort to get it. Including a very interesting chapter on the Head hunting tradition and weapons. – Artzi Yarom


[This message has been edited by Oriental-Arms (edited 12-22-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Oriental-Arms (edited 12-22-1999).]

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-22-1999 11:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd love to see that Smithsonian Bulletin Artzi . Do you have any ideas on where to search for it ?
I also forgot one title which might be useful:

Draeger Donn F. THE WEAPONS AND FIGHTING ARTS OF INDONESIA : PUBL. Charles E. Tuttle Co. Last publ. date 1995 soft cover.
An interesting book covering martial arts and weapons used in the Indonesian Archipelago. Lots of black and white photos
although most of the weapon types are shown as line drawings . This book can be useful in identifying the areas where certain weapons came from. The main focus however is on combat styles from the various cultures of Indonesia.

------------------
Rick

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ruel
Senior Member
posted 12-22-1999 23:33     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
North, Anthony R.E. An Introduction to Islamic Arms. (London: Her Majesty's Stationery Office, 1985.) This book is little more than a pamphlet about Islamic arms in the Victoria & Albert Museum, intended for the casual visitor; yet the quality of the Museum's pieces, well illustrated in photographs, make this a desirable book. It will certainly stimulate the enthusiasm of a new collector! I am not sure of the author's reason for including a Russian Shasqa, clearly a non-Islamic weapon (pp. 35-6). (ISBN 0-11-290384-3)

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Jim McDougall
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-23-1999 21:40     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim McDougall   Click Here to Email Jim McDougall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Introduction to Islamic Arms by Anthony North is, as stated, an overview with many useful illustrations and serves well as an introduction. The 'Russian' shashka shown is actually a Circassian product from the Caucusus, where many Cossacks where recruited after being taken by Russia in mid 19th c. The Caucasian shaska is in fact a very Islamic weapon (contrary to the Russian military shashkas for Cossacks). The tribal groups in the Caucusus were primarily Sufi Muslims, and many shashkas have Islamic mottos on them. A good source for data:
"Les Armes Cosaques et Caucasiennes" by Iaroslav Lebedynsky, 1990 Paris
ISBN 2.86651.010.7. Although the text is in French, the illustrations are good and much of the data is self explanatory. A very important guide to a very esoteric weapons group.
For more on Russian military swords, including the Caucasian shashkas:
"Russian Military Swords 1801-1817" by Eugene Mollo, 1969, London.
This is a brief monograph with good illustrations, mostly the regulation patterns.
On Islamic weapons:
"Islamic Arms & Armour" , edited by Robert Elgood, London, 1979. ISBN 0 85967 470 3.
This pricey, but extremely important work includes essays by some of the worlds top authorities on Islamic weapons. Important illustrations, data and bibliographic material. This book should be the backbone of the library of anyone studying Islamic weapons.

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ruel
Senior Member
posted 12-24-1999 00:08     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jim,

I'm sure you're right about Islamic use of shasqa. That particular shasqa in North 1985, however, was quite un-Islamic, having Latin inscriptions and Russian motifs. It would be confusing for a new student of arms, who would be wondering why Muslims put Latin quotes on their blades!

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Oriental-Arms
Senior Member
posted 12-24-1999 02:53     Click Here to See the Profile for Oriental-Arms   Click Here to Email Oriental-Arms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Two more reference books, on weapons of Central Africa. (Actually both are catalogs of exhibitions)

African Metal Implements - Weapons, Tools and regalia , Collection of Frederick & Claire Mebel, Hillwood Art Gallery, School of the Arts, Long Island University, Greenvale, NY, 1984. Very short text but many good photos of the collection including tribal classification. This book will make the life of the novice collector easier, and will help in preliminary ‘navigation’ through the endless number of shapes and classes of African weapon. – Artzi Yarom


Beaute Fatal – Armes d’Afrique Cetrale , Galerie du Credit Communal, Brussels, 1992, ISBN 2-87193-172-0 (In French and/or Flemish). A very comprehensive classification of Central African weapon. Many B/W as well as color photos, Including an extensive paragraph on steel forging and a good chapter on the execution sword. Very useful for identification of African weapon. – Artzi Yarom

[This message has been edited by Oriental-Arms (edited 12-24-1999).]

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Jim McDougall
EEWRS Staff
posted 12-24-1999 20:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim McDougall   Click Here to Email Jim McDougall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ruel,
Point taken regarding the Russian shashka in North. After turn of the century, Russian officers were permitted to carry Caucasian shashkas resulting in this anomaly of Latin inscriptions on blades. Therefore a typical Muslim inscribed blade would have been more appropriate in this title. Caucasian shashkas also often carried trade blades from Hungary, which sometimes had latin inscriptions and cabbalistic markings etched on them. The Sufi Muslims of the Caucusus were not as strict on this,much as the Bedouins of Arabia, who were nominally Muslim and used European trade blades often.Again, these often included Latin inscriptions.
see:
The Arms & Armour of Arabia, Robert Elgood
1994, ISBN 0 85967 972 1
This is a brilliant work on Arabian swords, which includes valuable material on the heavy traffic of trade blades, most important in study of swords of not only Arabia, but Central Asia, India, Malaysia.
Heavily footnoted, a wealth of information in footnotes alone.

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ruel
Senior Member
posted 12-25-1999 00:31     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking of Arabs and Russians, maybe that shashka wasn't so inappropriate after all! I remember that D2 had posted a picture of a sword he was selling: the hilt was of a Nimcha, yet the blade was inscribed in Cyrillic.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000011.html

I suppose that when we see the word "Islamic" with regard to weapons, we should take it to refer to actual forms of the weapons, rather than the religious persuasions of their users.

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Oriental-Arms
Senior Member
posted 01-02-2000 11:37     Click Here to See the Profile for Oriental-Arms   Click Here to Email Oriental-Arms     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another good reference book. (I am also trying to bring this thread back to the top of the list so all forum members will continue to contribute to the list of books and references)

Balsinger, Roger N. and Klay, Ernst J. Bei Schah, Emir und Khan – Henri Moser Charlottenfels, 1844-1923 (Meier Verlag Schaffhausen, 1992. ISBN 3-85801-092-8). The story of Henri Moser fantastic collection of Islamic weapons and other Islamic objects of art from Central Asia. The book deals primarily with the History of the collection and less with classification and typology of the items. Yet it gives an impressive view of the collection with many good color photos of the superb items. In German. – Artzi Yarom

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DominiqueButtin
Member
posted 01-02-2000 21:47     Click Here to See the Profile for DominiqueButtin   Click Here to Email DominiqueButtin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Although it is a book that dates back to 1933, I would recommend to have CATALOGUE DE LA COLLECTION D'ARMES ANCIENNES EUROPEENNES ET ORIENTALES from Charles Buttin, a complete work on mediaval and oriental weapons written in French with 22 plates in black and white. It is a description of 1112 pieces of his collection. This book has been reprinted a few years ago. Charles Buttin (my great grand father) was a close friend and advisor of Henri Moser, Pierre Holstein major oriental arms collectors of the time.

Dominique Buttin

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Carter Rila
Senior Member
posted 01-03-2000 22:07     Click Here to See the Profile for Carter Rila   Click Here to Email Carter Rila     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some sites for books that look interesting to me. www.kentrotman.ltd.uk/
www.hanshan.com/
www.allarts.com.au/
I am especially impressed with that one in allarts list on the weapons of the Pacific Islands. Does anyone here have it?

[This message has been edited by Carter Rila (edited 01-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Carter Rila (edited 01-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Carter Rila (edited 01-03-2000).]

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LaurieWise
Member
posted 01-04-2000 01:07     Click Here to See the Profile for LaurieWise   Click Here to Email LaurieWise     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! Such a listing to be found here so far. In my husband's business, Kirby has collected a number of books that are, unfortunately, out of print but still of interest to find. (Bladesmith and Armourer for the past 46 years)

Karl Wagner's "Cut and Thrust Weapons" printed in Czechoslovakia in the early 1970s and was printed again German and English. No photographs but nicely done line drawings of several early swords as well as later ones used by Austria,Germany,UK,France and Russia up to the early 1900s. Includes Cavalry Sword Drill done during the early 1930s. Oversize Format. A smaller edition was printed later. Will send more information shortly.

"Swords and Hilt Weapons" by Michael C.Coe and others. Originally printed in 1989 and reprinted in 1993-96 by Barnes and Noble.

"Scottish Swords and Dirks" by John Wallace, Stackpole Books (out of print) Small edition with excellent information on early Scottish Baskethilts,Claymores and Dirks with good b/w closeup photos of baskethilts of various periods with blade size and weights.

The Wallace Collection Catalogues Vol 1 "Arms" and Vol 2 "Armour". Descriptions in the front and the b/w photos in the back. Descriptions give detailed information on the pieces shown and give size,weights. In the Vol.2 "Armour" are Armourer Marks for identification.

"The Sword in AngloSaxon England" by H.R.Ellis Davidson, reprinted by Barnes and Noble (out of print, I hear).

I will have to go through our library to add years and any ISBN numbers as well as other books that might be of interest here. A comprehensive bibliography is a good idea.

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Rick
EEWRS Staff
posted 01-04-2000 13:17     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick   Click Here to Email Rick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would suggest also that THE COMPLETE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC on cd can be a great resource for the study of ethnic peoples and their weapons ; especially the earlier issues . I found a great picture of a Budiak being weilded by a tribesman in an early article on the non-christian tribes of the Philippines. There are many more articles like this to be found within those countless pages .

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Carter Rila
Senior Member
posted 02-08-2000 15:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Carter Rila   Click Here to Email Carter Rila     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Last night, while moving a stack of books out of the way of an incipient flood threatened by a pinhole in the pipes, I found two books I had been looking for since this thread began.
Both are on African weapons, are almost all color large scale photos, were pricey in 1984 when I got them, and probably are even more pricy now.
Since I now know little more about the subject than is in here and was following what turned out to be a false lead on the origin of the French issue "machette senegalaise", I do not need them any more.
I will not give a long dissertation. If you know what these are you will want them. Suffice, it to say, both are large magazine size, and impressive.
Werner Fischer and Manfred Zirngill
African Weapons, Afrikanische Waffen. (Phinz-Verlag; Passau, 1978. Deutsch, Englisch $49.95
Manfred A. Zirngill
Rare African Short Weapoons, Seltende Afrikanishce Kurzwaffen (Morsak-Verlag; Grafenau, 1983) $65.00 Deutsche, Englisch, Französich.
I will take three excellent, bright and fancy cutachas in trade. )>
BTW those are what I paid in 1984. The Ethnographic Art Store in California lists them for $165.00 apiece nowadays.

[This message has been edited by Carter Rila (edited 02-10-2000).]

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philip tom
Senior Member
posted 02-10-2000 04:41     Click Here to See the Profile for philip tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As regards to Chinese weapons, please refer to my post in response to David Fannin's topic, "Later Chinese Weapons", on this Forum for a list of titles and capsule summaries. For those wanting a good exposure to this subject, I don't recommend E. T. C. Werner's CHINESE WEAPONS at all due to its almost exclusive reliance on literary references, as opposed to actual specimens or technical/military source material. Also, Yang Jwing Ming's INTRO. TO ANCIENT CHINESE WEAPONS is useful only for the Chinese character index; unfortunately, the author uses non-standard romanization, which only confuses the student. Also, the info in his text is of questionable accuracy in most instances.

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ruel
Senior Member
posted 02-10-2000 20:37     Click Here to See the Profile for ruel   Click Here to Email ruel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Philip --

That's exactly what I wrote about those books! Thanks for backing me up with your (more respectable) opinion.

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