| Author | Topic: mystical keris... |
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gorka Member |
Let's talk again about the mystical/magickal part of our old keris... Real traditional keris had been made by empus/mystics who made fastings, prayers before they start to make 1 blade. If the keris has been made in this way, and if the keris has been well treated, we can feel his power even centuries later. Have you ever tried to do this and what his your way to do (because there is several methods...) ? IP: Logged |
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VANDOO Senior Member |
I don't know the rituals preformed during the makeing of a special keris or the rituals preformed by the owner of such a keris. But I do think that something can be passed on to a favored object especially over time. When I handle most keris I can admire the workmanship and materials used but get no special feeling. There are some keris and other weapons that when I handle them there is a feeling that they were very important to someone and had been treasured for a long time. There are other weapons that make the hair stand up on the back of your neck when you hold them and ponder on their history. Call it what you will, imagination or fantasy to me it seems that some power does cling to some weapons. IP: Logged |
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gorka Member |
Interresting story, Vandoo. When I'm saying that you can feel a keris, I mean feeling heat or tickling in your hand when you hold it and put your palm in front of the top of the blade or noise in your head when you hold it in front of your forehead. Some people can feel it instantly, others have to work on themslves to feel it. By working on themselves, I mean practicing Tenaga Dalam (Indonesian chi kung), you can also practice chinese chi kung, meditation, all kind of exercices that improve you inner energy. You know this energy that is used in acupuncture. As much you develop this energy as better you can feel a keris. Also, if the keris has been made in a modern way without the proper offerings / ritual, you won't feel anything because the blade will be just a beautifull piece of metal without anything "in it" IP: Logged |
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MpuSombro Member |
Wow....this is a very interesting subject, perhaps we can talk about [Tuah] or mystical aspects of the keris. My personal pursuance of keris is basically for its mystical Tuah . Since 1970s, I only managed to collect a few kerises that I would say have shown some kind of co-incidences. Tuah of the Keris, based on my personal encounters, can never be proven or displayed physically or meeting your instant request. It will transmit its mystical Tuah voluntarily, when you are in the state of Emergency, Not Ready [helpless] that at the end of the day, you would say [it is not tuah of the keris but just a mere co-incidence]. While I was in Kuala Lumpur in 1994, I bought an ugly untreated keris from a Chinese shop. It was a very old Malay keris (Bugis?)with a broken tip and missing Ganja. I repaired the broken tip (by sharpening it)and then clean it with lime and water (ouside of my house). While pouring water ontop of the keris, I talked to the keris: [I spent a lot of money on you, please give me something good in return]. A few minutes later, while busy cleaning the keris, my automatic gate [infront of me] opened mysteriously! I went inside my house to check if somebody might have pressed the remote. It was nobody! I went out again and continue cleaning the keris (with scary feeling)with something in my mind [It is just a coincidence]. A month later, I became very wealthy [another coincidence I thought] but deep inside my heart says...there`s something to do with Tuah this keris and thus as a reward, I made an ivory dress for this Keris. Very recently, I was in Kuala Lumpur again and managed to get hold of so claimed Keris once owned by Panglima Bukit Gantang from a villager perhaps in the 18th Century (not sure)but still with broken and split tip and a missing ganja. Tuah of this keris came via my dream ( a huge wave as high as the mountain came pouring over me). A week later I got an unexpected wealth [could it be another coincidence?] IP: Logged |
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john Senior Member |
Just for a little fun/amusement. Please take with a pinch of salt if you're not into this! or just as a bedtime story! A month ago, I got a native shaman (bomoh) who supposely has the ability to communicate with spirits, disembodied entities or guardians of objects such as keris or gemstones/woods etc to check on about a dozen of my keris in two sessions. Had some very entertaining time with him telling me about the guardians, their names and their characteristics etc...telling me some of the things only I myself know but however in the second session, I deliberately switched two blades to confuse him and let him "read" on the 2 blades (which were read during first session) again without his knowledge. He gave different guardian names and was inconsistent with the first reading...but I could not write him off completely in view of some "on the mark" readings. Some guardian names were Puteri Padi (rice princess), anak sungei (river's child), Indra (Hindu god), Serang Semut (ant's nest) etc etc.... IP: Logged |
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Bill_Marsh Member |
Bedtime story -- I also am interested in the metaphysical aspects of the keris. Apparently dream interpretation is an important way that you can communicate with your keris. Try this. I make sure that the keris is well in its sheath, maybe even put on a keris cover (singap) then put it inside your pillow case, on the bottom of the pillow. This is so your head does not hit it and being inside the pillow case keeps it located while(whilest) you sleep. I had such dreams that I have considered putting a seat belt from my car on the bed! Would like to know if anyone else has tried this? What was your experience? Bill IP: Logged |
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Adni Aljunied Member |
“Tayuh” – A term used to describe knowledge used for “final” assurance if a keris is suitable for the present owner or not. This knowledge is primarily used to enhance a person’s ability to sense the “character” of the keris and whether it matches the character of the present owner. Example like a keris with a “rough” or “rugged” character is NOT good for a person with the same rugged nature, but is more suited with a keris that has a more sublime or “colder” character. Above was taken from Bambang’s encyclopedia. As we know that a keris when first made, is indirectly reflecting the person who commissions it; should it not then have the character of the person reflected as well? I’ve read other books in Bahasa about Tayuhan, and there are two types. One is doing it when asleep, and the other (maybe a little advanced) when awake. The first one, as Bill
have mentioned (and surprisingly tried!), is brining it to sleep.
There are some kind of “steps” or maybe rituals if
you can call it, prior to bringing the keris to sleep. The main
aim of the pre-tayuhan ritual is mainly to have a kind of guarantee
that what you dream about comes from the keris and not from other
sources. In some ways, it is like purifying oneself and at the
same time, “building” yourself a protective “enclosure”,
so that you are not “prone” to outer interference.
Just you, and the keris. I personally have not
tayuh any keris before, and although have heard many “coincidental”
stories, sure wish I have one to share, especially when it comes
to getting “huge” wealth!!! IP: Logged |
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MpuSombro Member |
Tayuhan is a better word in identifying power of our kerises. But, I would not like to mention here, since this subject is very subjective. I had been in Brunei, Malaysia and certainly my home country Indonesia meeting up various Juru Tayuhs but found none to my expectation. The best way is to do it yourself just like Bill did. Experiment it yourself continously. Perhaps, my keris will
display its Tuah within a week but takes a year or two or many
years if given to others. Suitability plays a very important
role here. In the olden days, the main objective why keris was
made was to make the owner capable of experiencing or enjoy Tuah
of his keris (such as defence, wealth and good health, spiritual
etc...) and not meant for display.
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M ELEY Senior Member |
I just tried the Dream thing with my Java keris. It works!!! That's all I'm going to say,as this is a personal experience one has to try to believe! IP: Logged |
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DAHenkel Senior Member |
Everyone who knows me knows that I take a very practical, very functionalist/materialist approach to the keris. I'm primarily a historian by training after all but with a touch of anthropology and philosophy as well. So I do find the interest and stories of the mystical side of the keris interesting. That said though, I have had dozens of good old keris in my home for many years and can honestly say that I have had no strange experiences at all, least of all any that might be attributed to one of my keris. As such, you can imagine I'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to these things. Nik Din would often talk about the "semangat" or spirit of wood but he always contended that wood was organic and thus had contained the life essence. It was this that was reflected in the wood, not some sort of "isi" or spirit (as in ghost) within the wood itself. He had very little patience for people who came to him wanting to talk about such things although I do suspect that he did believe in such things at some level. He once sold me a keris but warned me to be careful with it because it was puaka - literally haunted. I think Abang Din was very sensible about such things as he was a religious man and as all Muslim's know, playing around with such things is very dangerous to you - spiritually speaking. A close friend who is a member of this forum once told me a story that I think is instructive about such things and I will share it with you here (my apologies in advance to the friend). Some time back the friend in question was in Java and he encountered a man who claimed that he could make a keris stand up on its own and offered to show him. Well of course my friend was very keen to see this and agreed to meet the man at his house. At the appointed time my friend visited the man bringing along a couple of ordinary keris' of no real note. The man selected one of these, seemingly at random and placed it, unsheathed on the table. After reciting a few mantras or prayers of some sort, lo and behold - the keris slowly stood up on its tip. The man quietly took the keris, placed it back on the table and for good measure repeated the feat once again. Next, the man told my friend to watch carefully and placing an ordinary tablespoon in front of him he once again repeated his formulas - and the spoon also stood right up. The point being that as amazing as the feat had been, it was a power within the man - not within the keris - that made the objects do what they did. I can't tell you definitively that the keris has or does not have any magic powers. As I said at the beginning I'm skeptical and I have yet to see anything strange in seventeen years of collecting and studying. However, I suspect that much of what is attributed to the keris may actually be the result of an individuals spiritual power. There are lots of things in this world that we don't really understand. IP: Logged |
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john Senior Member |
The dream thing sure works for some. No doubt about that because I too have my experiences and seen dramatic experiences of a few. MIND has infinite powers and could be used and expressed through in so many ways along belief systems, thought patterns, cultures etc. Positive thinking gurus like Napoleon Hill or Bob Proctor or others teach how to use the mind to make positive affirmations several times a day from the state of stillness or deep silence...which work for many...for the better... A person with "strong thought power" would be able to make objects move or charge objects (eg the isi or tuah of a keris) by the power of thought or will if you like or through the traditional process of rituals or ceremonies etc. I believe much of the old traditional rituals and ceremonies have their roots at the ancient atharva veda. And an old keris; especially in the hands of generations who say have smoke it over kemayan or incense very fequently and making affirmations, chants, mantras, jampis or other bacha bachas would most likely create some strong charge/aura/semangat over time and those highly sensitive or psychic amongst us surely could pick the vibrations like the receiver of a radio. IMHO, there's nothing magical; all could be explained. IP: Logged |
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M ELEY Senior Member |
What is it that creates synchronicity in our lives? From a spiritual standpoint,it is the guiding spirits showing us the way of things.Many so called "New Agers" as well as some Buddhist and Toltec beliefs speak of the fact that everything in existance now was once a thought. Thought energy is believed by some to be an extention of reality. The Napalese people created the Yeti from their dreams, the Aboriginals believed in the Dream Time, the Toltecs say that words are the gift of God and are true pure magic which can change the Life Dream. I agree that the power lies within the individual from the Higher Self,but I also believe that inanimate objects,if believed spiritual in nature,can resonate with this power essence,probably from those on the other side. Many people don't believe in ghosts,yet stories abound with them. These phantasms frequently(according to mediums or those who have had run-ins with spirits)often speak of the ghost being associated with a past object that belonged to them. I could believe that the keris,an object looked upon & revered as magic & treated with such respect in it's forging & by the culture as a whole,could indeed possibly serve as a weathervane for psychic messages.I also believe that this ability isn't limited to just these items. Holy places alo resound with this energy. Psychics frequently feel this energy & can even read it on material items. For the nay-sayers,remember that the FBI still uses psychic investigators for this purpose.Well,that's my 2 cents... IP: Logged |
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nechesh Senior Member |
John wrote: IMHO, there's nothing magical; all could be explained. How about this: EVERYTHING is magickal; EVERYTHING can be explained. You see, for me, this idea that magick is the unexplainable is very foriegn to me. I spell magick with a "K" on purpose to distinguish it from the likes of Sigfield & Roy". These people are more appropiately called illustionists. Magick is an everyday occurence. If you look you will find it all around you. I tend to use the definition that magick is the act of creating change in accordance with one's will. If this is done in accordance with one's higher will, in alignment with universal forces ( some might call that god), that is high magick. It's all about intention. When an empu takes bars of various metals and forges them with intention into a work of art this is magick. When he fasts and prays and gives offerrings to create the best possible blade for the highest good, this is high magick. This is pure alchemy at work. But it's all very explainable and formulamatic. That the person who receives this keris also believes in this act of magick, and pays respect and offerings to it only increases the power of the original act of creation. BTW, IMHO, parlor games like making keris stand on end and stories about keris flying about the room are fun and all but have absolutely nothing to do with the true magickal powers of the keris. Any world class illusionist can do these tricks and it has nothing to do with their personal spiritual power either. The true magickal nature is much sutbler than that, as those doing dreamwork with their blades can probably tell you. Just as the true highest goal of alchemy is not to turn lead into gold, but to turn the base metals of the soul into pure spiritual gold. IP: Logged |
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tk Member |
Although the use of the keris is not a routine part of Pencak Silat, the practice of sleeping or meditating with a keris or other sacred weapon is not uncommon among those who study some of the more mystical practices -- like tenagga dalam or kebatinan. Often, part of the intention is a kind of "bonding" with the weapon. A practitioner might take the weapon out into the jungle and spend a certain period of time with it close to his skin, eating, sleeping, especially praying. I asked my teacher's father, an old Malay from the jungle, why one would sleep with a keris under his pillow, and he said something along the lines of, "So that it might tell you its story." In other cases, where the practioner's intention might not be so clean, they might take the keris to a graveyard and meditate there with it, hoping to attract some wayward spirit or djinn. Of course, these are very un-Islamic practices, but the roots of such practices go back long before Islam came to Indonesia. At least, that's what I've been told. Tom Kehoe IP: Logged |
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gorka Member |
This discussion about the spiritual part of the keris is very interesting... It's like when you talk about different mystical aspect of our life, some says it's science, we can probably find an scientific answer and others says it's the God's power. On my side, at the beginning of my "mystical studies", I was very sceptic also. But one day, I said to myself, let's just try to think : "okay, this mystical aspect (i.e. the tuah of the keris and it's power)" exist as magickal force coming from God thrue the empu who puts it in the keris. So I just open my mind and my heart and then what... it worked and then I tried different experiences and.... it worked again and almost always. I think it's the better way to discover it if you're scetic and you would like to discover this aspect. But if you don't believe in it, if you don't open your mind to this possibility it won't work. The funny think is that you can have different feelings than one of your friend who makes the same experiences... We also shouldn't forget that Indonesia was animist before Islam, Hinduism, Bouddhism... And in animism, the concept is that everything surrounding us possess its own energy/power given by God. And it's always like this today. People in Indonesia are very good muslims but at the same time they believe in animism even if it's not very muslim... On my side, before going to slepp with my keris, I ask it (using my words), to explian to me thrue my dreams what it is done for and what is it's story using symbols that I can understand. I'm doing this because before I had some dreams that I couldn't explain and I had to ask the meaning to people around me that work like this for a long time. Now that I'm asking understable symbols for my mind, all my dreams have meanings. Gorka IP: Logged |
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Bill_Marsh Member |
Many years ago I was a 'psychic' I used Tarot cards for divination. People paid me for 'readings' because the readings were very accurate. I found that I had a natural talent for this, and I also studied and worked very hard to develop these disciplines. Personal advice, relationships, financial --- very accurate. After a while I became deluged with requests. I grew tired of this and quit. I believe that there are several things happening here and I want to relate these to the keris. First, let me say that in the deep study of any metaphysical discipline you can open yourself to disturbing outside forces. Whether you wish to call them demons or neuroses. Be careful. If possible seek a teacher you can trust and meet with reguarly. Secondly I believe that the keris (and the tarot) can be a point of focus or gateway. Some feel this gateway is to your own subconscious mind, others feel it is to the collective unconscious, others to certain personified forces they call God or gods. I think it is a combination of all this and more. I do not think that the keris is alive. It is an object made by man. But it could be a gateway to other states of consciousness. I think that it is. There may be, and probably are rituals required. Apparently Indonesian kings used keris to contact ancestors, gods, nagas --- also they gave keris to subordinates traveling to remote realms that they might stay in touch with the rulers. Is that any more magikal
than cell phones! Would a nice collection of well-made cell phones do you any good if you did not know how to make them work? I want to know more about the rituals... Wishing you nice dreams, Bill Marsh [This message has been edited by Bill_Marsh (edited 08-27-2002).] IP: Logged |
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Paul de Souza Member |
I recall a documentary on ghosts shown on the Discovery Channel a few months back where they did experiments with magnetism and electromagnetism and found that such magnetism induced in one a propensity to see images or bright lights in whispy shapes. Given that many keris are magnetic in nature, if you remember the earlier thread on how keris blades affect compass needles, perhaps some of us are sensitive to such magnetism and respond accordingly to it. Just a thought.
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gorka Member |
Here is a comment from one of my very close friend who come from Java. He is an expert in keris / pusakas and mysticism. I'm sure it'll help everyone of us... Let me start from the beginning,
as I have often mentioned. A person can never learn the whole truth
about Keris, if that person try to isolate the keris from the culture in
which it belongs to (being a part of), i.e. the Javanese culture. I see
that you are missing something in your posting, brother. You see, Central
Javanese especially those whose believe is Kejawen, are not actually
Moslems. This has been a misinterpretation by many people, mostly in the
West, but sometimes also by local Indonesians. As quoted : Anthropologist
Clifford Geertz divides the Javanese population in three main groups: the
abangan, the priyayi and the santri. The Abangan (Agami Jawi) are nominal
Muslim, but to
a great extent they are guided by the ancient belief, the kejawen. Dr.S.
de Jong: "Flora and fauna have like man a soul. The animal and vegetable
soul is deeper sunk in material existence than the human soul. Therefore
certain plants and animals may be harmful...The Godhead towers above in
serene rest and offers no assistance. The abangan remain two possibilities:
surrender -rela-, and worship -bekti. The primitive main concepts recur
in 20th century mystical groups, may have never been absent."
IP: Logged |
posted
08-21-2002 14:02 
posted
08-21-2002 22:29 
posted
08-22-2002 01:34 
posted
08-27-2002 13:37, edited 08-28 Back to Magically Disappeared?